Ring Magazine Pound for Pound Ranking

[IT IS WHAT IT IS]

Shane hasn't been a A level fighter for years. Victor was never ever an A level fighter. Cotto, was finally exposed as a B level fighter. He never has beaten a top ten fighter. I truly believe PBF carried that fight. Lol, I'm sure he will admit to it one day. Ward had just been on an incredible streak. The only thing lacking is a victory over a top 10 fighter. I said him against Sergio made sense to me. But maybe after Chavez Jr. wins tonight. Chavez and Ward can make history.

I agree with you on all points, but the thing when gauging a fighter based on his wins over 'top 10' fighters is subjective. One, what happens if there are no top 10 fighters in or around his weight class? Should he be penalized for that? I believe in Wards case, it's really not that hard to justify him at #1 NOW, because he's done what hasn't really been done in a very long time, cleaned out his division, staked himself as the #1 fighter in his division, in a division with quite a few top level fighters in it. Plus, as much as I love the debate, Manny vs Floyd, etc., I believe, against better competition, he has shown himself to be more versatile fighter than both. He's won his fights in at least 3 different styles, and just beat up and made quit the top LHW in boxing!! That's no small task. Both Manny and Floyd have been beating 'name' fighters as of late, but neither of them have really beaten a top fighter in their primes in a while...

No brainer, Ward is the Top boxer in boxing right now IMO...

 

[IT IS WHAT IT IS]

this list is downright laughable

and why are bgol niggas acting like Floyd hasnt fought in years?

he just fought in May against a quality opponent

Dude, really? While I agree Floyd is definitely top 2, please lets not reference his last two fights as a gauge as to why he should still be #1. Cotto's biggest wins lately were against a washed up Margarito, and an overrated Yuri Foreman , plus he had previously had his ass whipped by Manny. Before him... Victor Ortiz? Really?

If you compare his last 3-4 fights against Wards, there is no comparison to the recent accomplishments and wins of both, Wards run far outweights anyone else's in boxing at this point. We've got to get away from gauging fighters on past achievements and social profile, and gauge what is done in the ring to that point, and over the past two years, neither Manny, Floyd, or anyone else really rates with what Ward has accomplished...

 

[Jordan Diddy Buk]

I agree with you on all points, but the thing when gauging a fighter based on his wins over 'top 10' fighters is subjective. One, what happens if there are no top 10 fighters in or around his weight class? Should he be penalized for that? I believe in Wards case, it's really not that hard to justify him at #1 NOW, because he's done what hasn't really been done in a very long time, cleaned out his division, staked himself as the #1 fighter in his division, in a division with quite a few top level fighters in it. Plus, as much as I love the debate, Manny vs Floyd, etc., I believe, against better competition, he has shown himself to be more versatile fighter than both. He's won his fights in at least 3 different styles, and just beat up and made quit the top LHW in boxing!! That's no small task. Both Manny and Floyd have been beating 'name' fighters as of late, but neither of them have really beaten a top fighter in their primes in a while...

No brainer, Ward is the Top boxer in boxing right now IMO...

I wouldn't punish a fighter for not going up against top 10 fighters as long as they fight the best in their division. That is why I have Ward as my number 1.

 

[alexw]

Dude, really? While I agree Floyd is definitely top 2, please lets not reference his last two fights as a gauge as to why he should still be #1. Cotto's biggest wins lately were against a washed up Margarito, and an overrated Yuri Foreman , plus he had previously had his ass whipped by Manny. Before him... Victor Ortiz? Really?

If you compare his last 3-4 fights against Wards, there is no comparison to the recent accomplishments and wins of both, Wards run far outweights anyone else's in boxing at this point. We've got to get away from gauging fighters on past achievements and social profile, and gauge what is done in the ring to that point, and over the past two years, neither Manny, Floyd, or anyone else really rates with what Ward has accomplished...

I have no idea what youre talking about and it appears you have no clue how the pound for pound rankings are compiled

dont feel bad tho...ring magazine has no clue either and its their list (how in the hell is manny 2nd?)

but anyways, the shit is based on popularity, past performances/results, and the fighters overall skill level

as for Cotto, dont forget that Cotto won his last four fights in spectacular fashion, and unlike Manny, Mayweather went "up" to Cottos weight for that fight

Money didnt do that bullshit catchweight shit to drain Cotto of his strength and energy. Mayweather fought Cotto at his best (and Cotto is an outstanding fighter at his weight). Pacman fought him under circumstances that benefited him and only him.

Finally Ward is good but he doesnt have the ridiculous skills of Money May. He hasnt beaten the quality of opponents of a Money May. He has beaten good fighters but he hasnt beaten anyone great yet. He will but they arent in his division yet.

 

[Bxlegend]

I think that because of that Floyd should be #1 right now because of the marque of a figher such as Cotto, but I feel that Ward has to get consideration since he's probably lost less than 5 rounds his whole career. That being said p4p lists usually give more consideration to fighters who win at different weight classes, at least in the more current years.

 

[Bxlegend]

That's what I'm saying. FLoyd just finish whipping the asses of Victor Ortiz and Miguel Cotto. Both of those guys are arguably hall of famers and were in their primes. Ortiz regularly drops cruiserweights in sparring and Cotto was almost unbeatable when he fought May. The racist CAC capitalist devils don't want to give May credit because he's a dark skinned brutha. That's why these CACs are just feenin to make Ward the new number one guy, just because he's half white like Obama.

Ortiz will never be a hall of famer Please stop posting nonsense

 

[IT IS WHAT IT IS]

I have no idea what youre talking about and it appears you have no clue how the pound for pound rankings are compiled

dont feel bad tho...ring magazine has no clue either and its their list (how in the hell is manny 2nd?)

but anyways, the shit is based on popularity, past performances/results, and the fighters overall skill level

as for Cotto, dont forget that Cotto won his last four fights in spectacular fashion, and unlike Manny, Mayweather went "up" to Cottos weight for that fight

Money didnt do that bullshit catchweight shit to drain Cotto of his strength and energy. Mayweather fought Cotto at his best (and Cotto is an outstanding fighter at his weight).

Finally Ward is good but he doesnt have the ridiculous skills of Money May. He hasnt beaten the quality of opponents of a Money May. He has beaten good fighters but he hasnt beaten anyone great yet. He will but they arent in his division yet.

Your first sentence sums you up in a nutshell...

Dude, and it's cool, I understand that there are those like you who try to mask a fan boy approach to analyzing boxing, by a self-asuming knowledge of the sport and it's inner workings, so, with that you are significantly transparent and identified as such...

Anyway, your whole 'analysis' is not based on the state of things, but a fan boy approach to arguing for the place of your favorite boxers, as opposed to having an intelligent discussion about the thread topic. There are a lot of 'ridiculously' skilled fighters which don't warrant an place in the top 10 discussion, i.e. at this point, Adrien Broner, so that argument is really a non-issue. 2, pound for pound is NOT based on popularity, maybe ability to generate money but not popularity, or else Bradley, Moreno, etc. would not be on the list...

Lastly, the list is not based on CAREER body of work but what has been accomplished lately, and for you to say that Floyds recent level of competition is better than Ward's then that further exposes you as a person defending his favorite as opposed to having an intelligent objective argument about boxing....

At any rate, I am discussing the list, not getting into a back and forth debate about Floyd against the world, so on that note, I'm actually through with this discussion... You cape up Floyd unobjectively and with arguments without true merit, and on that note I'll leave you to it, and not engage you anymore. Have fun with that...

 

[alexw]

Your first sentence sums you up in a nutshell...

Dude, and it's cool, I understand that there are those like you who try to mask a fan boy approach to analyzing boxing, by a self-asuming knowledge of the sport and it's inner workings, so, with that you are significantly transparent and identified as such...

Anyway, your whole 'analysis' is not based on the state of things, but a fan boy approach to arguing for the place of your favorite boxers, as opposed to having an intelligent discussion about the thread topic. There are a lot of 'ridiculously' skilled fighters which don't warrant an place in the top 10 discussion, i.e. at this point, Adrien Broner, so that argument is really a non-issue. 2, pound for pound is NOT based on popularity, maybe ability to generate money but not popularity, or else Bradley, Moreno, etc. would not be on the list...

Lastly, the list is not based on CAREER body of work but what has been accomplished lately, and for you to say that Floyds recent level of competition is better than Ward's then that further exposes you as a person defending his favorite as opposed to having an intelligent objective argument about boxing....

At any rate, I am discussing the list, not getting into a back and forth debate about Floyd against the world, so on that note, I'm actually through with this discussion... You cape up Floyd unobjectively and with arguments without true merit, and on that note I'll leave you to it, and not engage you anymore. Have fun with that...

like i said, you have no idea what youre talking about

 

[IT IS WHAT IT IS]

like i said, you have no idea what youre talking about

Thanks for further validating my point, nothing intelligent to add or objective to say to further the debate about boxing, not Floyd fanboy-ism... A horrible disease actually..

Ok, so, what magazine do you work for and who's payroll are you on since you obviously are an expert on the topic...

 

[Bxlegend]

Your first sentence sums you up in a nutshell...

Dude, and it's cool, I understand that there are those like you who try to mask a fan boy approach to analyzing boxing, by a self-asuming knowledge of the sport and it's inner workings, so, with that you are significantly transparent and identified as such...

Anyway, your whole 'analysis' is not based on the state of things, but a fan boy approach to arguing for the place of your favorite boxers, as opposed to having an intelligent discussion about the thread topic. There are a lot of 'ridiculously' skilled fighters which don't warrant an place in the top 10 discussion, i.e. at this point, Adrien Broner, so that argument is really a non-issue. 2, pound for pound is NOT based on popularity, maybe ability to generate money but not popularity, or else Bradley, Moreno, etc. would not be on the list...

Lastly, the list is not based on CAREER body of work but what has been accomplished lately, and for you to say that Floyds recent level of competition is better than Ward's then that further exposes you as a person defending his favorite as opposed to having an intelligent objective argument about boxing....

At any rate, I am discussing the list, not getting into a back and forth debate about Floyd against the world, so on that note, I'm actually through with this discussion... You cape up Floyd unobjectively and with arguments without true merit, and on that note I'll leave you to it, and not engage you anymore. Have fun with that...

I agree that Ward has recently faced better talent has even been more dominate a fighter, but it is not an easy task to earn p4p status when you fight at one weight nowadays, especailly when you are not that seasoned or marketed. Whether it it fair or not, it is the harsh reality of boxing. I do see your point tho and think that Ward is a better fighter at this point of his career regardless of the rankings.

 

[IT IS WHAT IT IS]

I agree that Ward has recently faced better talent has even been more dominate a fighter, but it is not an easy task to earn p4p status when you fight at one weight nowadays, especailly when you are not that seasoned or marketed. Whether it it fair or not, it is the harsh reality of boxing. I do see your point tho and think that Ward is a better fighter at this point of his career regardless of the rankings.

BX, that's what I'm talking about, a clear concise intelligent response to a boxing debate. I really appreciate your view point and it does make sense. If you see my previous post about the compiling of the list, we are definitely on the same page, and based on your points that's why I would put PBF at #2. There are a lot of fighters out there who are fighting better fights, winning, etc. who may not be as talented but if you base it solely on what happens in the ring and the level of competition, would you honestly put PBF and say Manny ahead of Ward? Great points though Dude...

 

[Jordan Diddy Buk]

PBF is the most skill fighter in the game right now. But if you don't take on challenges then people can't evaluate you properly. That is his problem. He is number two because he skill is off the charts. However he resume year after year lacks. Where as Ward went through fire in the super middle weight tourney. It was not a one fight jump for him. He proved he was the best in his division by beating the best and then beat the best LHW. That is impressive as hell. More impressive than Manny or PBF's recent years. I don't mind people saying PBF should be number 1. But how long can you be number 1 cause you don't fight people that can beat you. That is something Manny does. You can say that PBF doesn't have any challenges. He has and does. But he has no interest cause people respect the zero without looking at how it is maintained. Now that PBF is at 154. He can clean out the division with a win over Canelo. Then maybe take a fight with the winner of the sergio and chavez fight. He has a chance to make major waves in boxing. But most likely he will be content with fighting mediocre challenges and getting paid. He can do that and still be considered a top 5 fighter. So the risk isn't worth the reward for him. Manny needs to fight two more fights. First get a solid victory over Juan then seek to get his belt back from Timmy. If these things are done. He can shoot to the top himself. It is all about who you last fought.

 

[IT IS WHAT IT IS]

PBF is the most skill fighter in the game right now. But if you don't take on challenges then people can't evaluate you properly. That is his problem. He is number two because he skill is off the charts. However he resume year after year lacks. Where as Ward went through fire in the super middle weight tourney. It was not a one fight jump for him. He proved he was the best in his division by beating the best and then beat the best LHW. That is impressive as hell. More impressive than Manny or PBF's recent years. I don't mind people saying PBF should be number 1. But how long can you be number 1 cause you don't fight people that can beat you. That is something Manny does. You can say that PBF doesn't have any challenges. He has and does. But he has no interest cause people respect the zero without looking at how it is maintained. Now that PBF is at 154. He can clean out the division with a win over Canelo. Then maybe take a fight with the winner of the sergio and chavez fight. He has a chance to make major waves in boxing. But most likely he will be content with fighting mediocre challenges and getting paid. He can do that and still be considered a top 5 fighter. So the risk is worth the reward for him. Manny needs to fight two more fights. First get a solid victory over Juan then seek to get his belt back from Timmy. If these things are done. He can shoot to the top himself. It is all about who you last fought.

Yep...

 

[IT IS WHAT IT IS]

PBF is the most skill fighter in the game right now. But if you don't take on challenges then people can't evaluate you properly. That is his problem. He is number two because he skill is off the charts. However he resume year after year lacks. Where as Ward went through fire in the super middle weight tourney. It was not a one fight jump for him. He proved he was the best in his division by beating the best and then beat the best LHW. That is impressive as hell. More impressive than Manny or PBF's recent years. I don't mind people saying PBF should be number 1. But how long can you be number 1 cause you don't fight people that can beat you. That is something Manny does. You can say that PBF doesn't have any challenges. He has and does. But he has no interest cause people respect the zero without looking at how it is maintained. Now that PBF is at 154. He can clean out the division with a win over Canelo. Then maybe take a fight with the winner of the sergio and chavez fight. He has a chance to make major waves in boxing. But most likely he will be content with fighting mediocre challenges and getting paid. He can do that and still be considered a top 5 fighter. So the risk is worth the reward for him. Manny needs to fight two more fights. First get a solid victory over Juan then seek to get his belt back from Timmy. If these things are done. He can shoot to the top himself. It is all about who you last fought.

Exactly, what Ward just accomplished is like Floyd fighting Martinez and dominating him... I know there are those who want to discredit Dawson now, bugt NO ONE saw Ward beating his ass like that and if they claim they did they are lying motherfuckers!!!

Both Floyd and Manny have the skill of fighting bigger fighters, crowing about that shit, but in reality both of them look for the weakest challenges in higher weight classes to call out... Cotto had his ass whipped by Manny before Floyd fought him, and had his ass whipped by Margarito and Mosley before Manny fought him, same thing with Manny fighting Mosley, but fanboys on this site are like after those bullshit wins...

You NEVER heard either Floyd OR Manny call out Martinez, who was in the same weight class as Cotto did you... Ward called out the best LHW in the world and beat his ass, AFTER cleaning out his own division... How can anyone with common sense argue against him as #1 PFP...

 

[Bxlegend]

Honestly, The Ring's p4p rankings are like allstar votes or probowl votes... Flawed. Remember that De la Hoya owns them now as well. I still subcribe to them, but I notice tons of biased bs in the mag

 

[patscorpio]

PBF is the most skill fighter in the game right now. But if you don't take on challenges then people can't evaluate you properly. That is his problem. He is number two because he skill is off the charts. However he resume year after year lacks. Where as Ward went through fire in the super middle weight tourney. It was not a one fight jump for him. He proved he was the best in his division by beating the best and then beat the best LHW. That is impressive as hell. More impressive than Manny or PBF's recent years. I don't mind people saying PBF should be number 1. But how long can you be number 1 cause you don't fight people that can beat you. That is something Manny does. You can say that PBF doesn't have any challenges. He has and does. But he has no interest cause people respect the zero without looking at how it is maintained. Now that PBF is at 154. He can clean out the division with a win over Canelo. Then maybe take a fight with the winner of the sergio and chavez fight. He has a chance to make major waves in boxing. But most likely he will be content with fighting mediocre challenges and getting paid. He can do that and still be considered a top 5 fighter. So the risk isn't worth the reward for him. Manny needs to fight two more fights. First get a solid victory over Juan then seek to get his belt back from Timmy. If these things are done. He can shoot to the top himself. It is all about who you last fought.

 

[Brother Blues]

Pac just lost,and he remains on the same level as PBF??...the list is invalidated right there.

I would have PBF and Ward as 1a and 1b...

 

[Rick Ronson]

fuck their rankings

 

[Top-Cat]

Pac just lost,and he remains on the same level as PBF??...the list is invalidated right there.

I would have PBF and Ward as 1a and 1b...

c/s

 

[Jordan Diddy Buk]

Pac just lost,and he remains on the same level as PBF??...the list is invalidated right there.

I would have PBF and Ward as 1a and 1b...

What in the past two years has PBF done to have him over Ward? PBF is being rewarded for the same thing the Klitschko brothers get blasted for. Being superior fighters compared to their comp. I am not saying those bros deserve 1 or 2 on the list. But look at their accomplishments. The both dominated a weight class unlike another other fighter in recent years. From a boxing standpoint these guys could arguably be the best. From a PR standpoint there is no way. But look at the record. And stop crying about Manny losing. It was not a clear and cut win for Timmy. Until someone beats the shit out of Manny then he will remain in the top ten. Same for PBF. He will remain at the top with making one fight a year against an opponent that has no shot of winning.

 

[da_monumental_1]

Exactly, what Ward just accomplished is like Floyd fighting Martinez and dominating him... I know there are those who want to discredit Dawson now, bugt NO ONE saw Ward beating his ass like that and if they claim they did they are lying motherfuckers!!!

I did.

Don't be surprised to see Ward stop Dawson.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

All things considered, right now (before tonight's fights) Ward should be number one but only because Floyd went to jail. But if Sergio wins, he's earned the right to be P4P number one.

Engaging Buk in a debate that involves Mayweather is foolish. No matter who Floyd beats, Buk will never give him the proper credit and go out of his way to invalidate the win.

 

[Jordan Diddy Buk]

All things considered, right now (before tonight's fights) Ward should be number one but only because Floyd went to jail. But if Sergio wins, he's earned the right to be P4P number one.

Engaging Buk in a debate that involves Mayweather is foolish. No matter who Floyd beats, Buk will never give him the proper credit and go out of his way to invalidate the win.

Lol, ok. I don't think anyone was debating. PBF is the most skilled fighter out there. How many times do I have to say it? Still put his last two years up against Andre's and he loses. Pound for pound Ward has done more. If you want to reward PBF for career accomplishments then cool. That's not what pound for pound list are for. It is about who is fighting the best at the current time. Ward is the best to me. I don't see how you put Ward the best just cause PBF went to prison. I don't see how the prison issue even matters. Wasn't it 60 days or something? Sergio beating Chavez doesn't mean as much as Ward beating Dawson. Dawson was the top fighter in his division. Dawson was beaten by Ward after Ward cleared up his division. I must be missing something.Chavez has beaten a string op bums. This is Chavez first big test. It means more the Chavez than to Sergio.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Lol, ok. I don't think anyone was debating. PBF is the most skilled fighter out there. How many times do I have to say it? Still put his last two years up against Andre's and he loses. Pound for pound Ward has done more. If you want to reward PBF for career accomplishments then cool. That's not what pound for pound list are for. It is about who is fighting the best at the current time. Ward is the best to me. I don't see how you put Ward the best just cause PBF went to prison. I don't see how the prison issue even matters. Wasn't it 60 days or something? Sergio beating Chavez doesn't mean as much as Ward beating Dawson. Dawson was the top fighter in his division. Dawson was beaten by Ward after Ward cleared up his division. I must be missing something.Chavez has beaten a string op bums. This is Chavez first big test. It means more the Chavez than to Sergio.

Dawson is the top fighter in his division but he wasnt fighting in his division, he was fighting in Ward's. Sergio moved up to middleweight because jr middleweights not named Paul Williams wouldn't fight him and he's dominated the division. A win over the much larger, much younger, unfortunately more famous Chavez
would validate all of this and be a win to put him over Ward.
If there was even a chance that Mayweather was going to fight again in 2012, he would have earned the top spot since he went to the division of the defending champion and beat him after having dominated the previous two welterweight champions.

 

[Jordan Diddy Buk]

Dawson is the top fighter in his division but he wasnt fighting in his division, he was fighting in Ward's. Sergio moved up to middleweight because jr middleweights not named Paul Williams wouldn't fight him and he's dominated the division. A win over the much larger, much younger, unfortunately more famous Chavez
would validate all of this and be a win to put him over Ward.
If there was even a chance that Mayweather was going to fight again in 2012, he would have earned the top spot since he went to the division of the defending champion and beat him after having dominated the previous two welterweight champions.

Dawson signed the contract to fight at that weight. You devalue Ward's win if you are using that a reason to slight the victory. Sergio moved up cause he had that opportunity to fight Kelly. He wasn't dominating 154. And I wouldn't rank Dawson over Chavez. I don't see how beating a lesser opponent makes you better than a fighter that fought a tougher opponent. But that's me. I don't see the point of talking about hypothetical wins for PBF. Today's top fighters seem to be on that 1 fight a year plan. I doubt PBF would have fought again.

I think the Klitscho bros deserve more respect in pound for pound talk. I mean neither guy seems like they have a flaw in their game. Losing rounds is something the never seem to do. I would have them four and five on my list.

 

[Alaskanredman]

All things considered, right now (before tonight's fights) Ward should be number one but only because Floyd went to jail. But if Sergio wins, he's earned the right to be P4P number one.

Engaging Buk in a debate that involves Mayweather is foolish. No matter who Floyd beats, Buk will never give him the proper credit and go out of his way to invalidate the win.

Damn I thought this thread was pretty much done, but Dave wants put out the argument for why Serg should get that top spot. We disagreed in the boxing section on that and I don't think we can be moved either way on that. I will say the you are on point with the bold though before I get outta here. It should be a disclaimer in every boxing thread.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Dawson signed the contract to fight at that weight. You devalue Ward's win if you are using that a reason to slight the victory. Sergio moved up cause he had that opportunity to fight Kelly. He wasn't dominating 154. And I wouldn't rank Dawson over Chavez. I don't see how beating a lesser opponent makes you better than a fighter that fought a tougher opponent. But that's me. I don't see the point of talking about hypothetical wins for PBF. Today's top fighters seem to be on that 1 fight a year plan. I doubt PBF would have fought again.

Stick to the arguments I make, I never said Martinez was dominating the jr middle division.
You wouldn't rank Dawson over Chavez?


I had more to say but I can't get past that.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Damn I thought this thread was pretty much done, but Dave wants put out the argument for why Serg should get that top spot. We disagreed in the boxing section on that and I don't think we can be moved either way on that. I will say the you are on point with the bold though before I get outta here. It should be a disclaimer in every boxing thread.

And I fucked around and answered his trolling twice like I don't know better.

 

[Jordan Diddy Buk]

And I fucked around and answered his trolling twice like I don't know better.

You two just made this thread gay. Get a room.

 

[slewdem100]

I agree with those who say Ward has made a strong case for himself as number 1 pound for pound. Ward is not flashy but it really is amazing how so many of his opponents have that lost look after a fight with him. Won the super six tournament (Ward was fighter of the year last year, his trainer was trainer of the year) and made the best light heavyweight in the world look like absolute shit (probably destroyed his career). Ward and Floyd tied for number one with Manny at number 2. Yeah I think Manny lost to JMM last time but JMM is in the top ten too. Manny beat Bradley who is also a top fighter (no matter the scorecards). He barely holds on to number 2. Fighting JMM a 4 time makes no sense. JMM knows how to fight him and he will look bad. If by some miracle he knocks JMM out, it would simply be seen as JMM finally getting too old.

If Floyd goes on another long inactive stretch and Ward is able to outclass a credible opponent, he becomes sole number 1.

 

[bwb]

not putting floyd first and leaving it VACANT is just petty and immature

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Ward gets credit for winning the Super 6, you fight the guys in front of you, but outside Mikkel Kessler, it wasn't exactly stocked with top fighters. Even with Dawson fighting outside his division, that's a better win than any of the ones in the tournament.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

not putting floyd first and leaving it VACANT is just petty and immature

Somebody has to be number one.

 

[Alaskanredman]

Ward gets credit for winning the Super 6, you fight the guys in front of you, but outside Mikkel Kessler, it wasn't exactly stocked with top fighters. Even with Dawson fighting outside his division, that's a better win than any of the ones in the tournament.

You are revising history a bit. Arthur Abraham was considered a huge threat even if he wasn't favored.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

You are revising history a bit. Arthur Abraham was considered a huge threat even if he wasn't favored.

I'm not revising history at all. I remember people really liking Abraham and having him as one of the favorites but I never bought into him at super middleweight and felt vindicated when he imploded. He's actually done more since the tourney than he had before the tourney. He and Jermain Taylor had no business in it.