Drone attacks

actinanass

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US drone strikes ‘could be war crimes’ and set risky precedent - UN

The use of drone strikes by the US to combat terrorism flouts international law and may encourage other nations to follow suit, a UN rapporteur says. He stressed that some of the attacks may constitute war crimes.

Christof Heyns, the UN special investigator on extrajudicial killings told a UN conference in Geneva that the US needs to be held legally accountable for the use of armed drones.

"Are we to accept major changes to the international legal system which has been in existence since World War Two and survived nuclear threats?" he said.

He also requested that the Obama administration publish statistics on the number of civilian deaths caused by strikes on suspected terror leaders in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Yemen.

“I don’t think we have the full answer to the legal framework, we certainly don’t have the answer to the accountability issues,” he told reporters at the UN Human Rights Council meeting.

He underlined the fact that recent US drone strikes threatened the rule of international law in that many “targeted killings take place far from areas where it's recognized as being an armed conflict." Heyns added that drone strikes may be legally justifiable in conflict zones such as Afghanistan.

He went on to say however that if “there have been secondary drone strikes on rescuers who are helping [the injured] after an initial drone attack, those further attacks are a war crime.”

Lampooning the US stance that targeted strikes are a legitimate response to the 9/11 attacks orchestrated by Al Qaeda he said “it's difficult to see how any killings carried out in 2012 can be justified in response to [events] in 2001. Some states seem to want to invent new laws to justify new practices.”

The US argues that its drone strikes are highly effective at combating insurgency abroad and do not violate international law. However, Washington has come under fire recently for multiple drone incursions that killed dozens of civilians in Pakistan and Afghanistan.

Both China and Russia issued statements to the UN Human Rights Council this week condemning the US use of drone strikes.

*
US setting a dangerous precedent?

UN investigator Heynes voiced fears during the two-day meeting that other countries may also adopt the American strategy for justifying drone incursions.

“My concern is that we are dealing here with a situation that creates precedents around the world,” said Heyns.

The American Civil Liberties Movement (ACLU) told the UN Human Rights court on Wednesday that “the United States has cobbled together its own legal framework for targeted killing, with standards that are far less stringent than the law allows.”

Figures published by ACLU estimate that about 4,000 people have fallen victim to US drone raids since 2002 in Yemen, Pakistan and Somalia. The investigations show a large part of the casualties were civilian and that numbers have increased dramatically since Barack Obama assumed the presidency.

http://www.rt.com/news/us-drone-violates-law-un-report-459/
 
you just pissed in their Cheerios

Of course, this will be ignored!

Does international law really address asymmetrical warefare ? ? ? If so, please explain.

. . . of course, this will be ignored!
 
US drone strikes ‘could be war crimes’ and set risky precedent - UN

/

:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

Lamarr and AAA accusing anyone about ignoring a thread.


For the sake of argument, lets say it is. Do you think we should go after President Obama and GW? Since they both carried out Drone Strikes.

We shall see who ignores a specific question. If you don't answer this specifically, don't ever ask me anything ever.
 
Yeah, stay the course: your typical when you don't have a real answer, resort to cliché
 
:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

Lamarr and AAA accusing anyone about ignoring a thread.


For the sake of argument, lets say it is. Do you think we should go after President Obama and GW? Since they both carried out Drone Strikes.

We shall see who ignores a specific question. If you don't answer this specifically, don't ever ask me anything ever.

Did Bush go after any American without oversight from any other branch of Gov't., or even without being charged (much less convicted) of a capital crime that merited summary execution ?
 
Did Bush go after any American without oversight from any other branch of Gov't., or even without being charged (much less convicted) of a capital crime that merited summary execution ?


valerie-plame-1-sized.jpg
 
:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

Lamarr and AAA accusing anyone about ignoring a thread.


For the sake of argument, lets say it is. Do you think we should go after President Obama and GW? Since they both carried out Drone Strikes.

We shall see who ignores a specific question. If you don't answer this specifically, don't ever ask me anything ever.

First of all, I have no issue with what Obama, or Bush is doing.

Secondly, I know YOU care about showing how bad Bush is when Obama is doing pretty much the same thing.

Third of all, since I know you really don't like this, why not post it?

Finally, last but not least, I'm only posting what the world is saying about your dude. This is the exact thing they said about Bush. Remember when you, vegas, and Que used to post all these war crime threads? Funny how the tables have turned...
 
:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

Lamarr and AAA accusing anyone about ignoring a thread.


For the sake of argument, lets say it is. Do you think we should go after President Obama and GW? Since they both carried out Drone Strikes.

Yes, go after both! Afterall, i see this as the 3rd Bush term.

Dick Cheney would be proud of ol Barry.
 
First of all, I have no issue with what Obama, or Bush is doing.

Secondly, I know YOU care about showing how bad Bush is when Obama is doing pretty much the same thing.

Third of all, since I know you really don't like this, why not post it?

Finally, last but not least, I'm only posting what the world is saying about your dude. This is the exact thing they said about Bush. Remember when you, vegas, and Que used to post all these war crime threads? Funny how the tables have turned...


First of all, I have no issue with what Obama, or Bush is doing.

So your hatred for President Obama is not based on anything factual.
 
I thought we would get a discussion at least.


I'm happy to discuss it with you; what about it do you want to discuss ???

Do you have a premise ???


Finally, last but not least, I'm only posting what the world is saying about your dude. This is the exact thing they said about Bush. Remember when you, vegas, and Que used to post all these war crime threads? Funny how the tables have turned...

That was your point :confused:
 
So your hatred for President Obama is not based on anything factual.

Contrary to your beliefs, I do not hate President Obama. I hate blind loyalty towards the man.

You may not believe me, but I actually wished he would of fixed the economy, and actually win reelection off a good record. However, right now, I can't ride with him.

He is no different than Carter in my book.

I think it's rather funny that you are claiming that I hate President Obama when you clearly hated President Bush.
 
Been against fuckery since it was happening under Bush. We all know if the roles were reversed Bush and/or Obama would be considered the number one terrorist in the world by the U.S.

Could you imagine if "they" attacked a funeral for one of the leaders of the U.S.(or a funeral for a fallen soldier) and then attacked the rescue workers? Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeit.

We all know this war criminal shit is never going to happen to any president, but it's just funny to see the hypocrisy in all of it; it's cool if we do it, but it's terrorism and "justice needs to be served" if they do it.
 
Been against fuckery since it was happening under Bush. We all know if the roles were reversed Bush and/or Obama would be considered the number one terrorist in the world by the U.S.

Could you imagine if "they" attacked a funeral for one of the leaders of the U.S.(or a funeral for a fallen soldier) and then attacked the rescue workers? Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeit.

We all know this war criminal shit is never going to happen to any president, but it's just funny to see the hypocrisy in all of it; it's cool if we do it, but it's terrorism and "justice needs to be served" if they do it.

I could be wrong, but I thought, so far, the subjects of the drones have been radical Muslims associated with those who attacked this country in 2001.

Do you know of any that were not so associated ? ? ? Could be; just asking.

Have they agreed <u>not</u> to do that again ? ? ?

If they've ceased efforts to do similar and other terrorists acts against this country, we need to stop them damn drones ASAP.
 
I could be wrong, but I thought, so far, the subjects of the drones have been radical Muslims associated with those who attacked this country in 2001.

Do you know of any that were not so associated ? ? ? Could be; just asking.

Have they agreed not to do that again ? ? ?

If they've ceased efforts to do similar and other terrorists acts against this country, we need to stop them damn drones ASAP.
Again, if Bush and/or Obama is a target, does it excuse killing the civilians?

So if Bush is killed, it's okay for "terrorists" to bomb everyone showing respect?

As you know, I've been against this since before the "war" in Afghanistan was launched.

Maybe you are taking it into the direction of what THEY have not agreed to do.......but we are the ones on their land.....
 
Air Force Trains Drone Pilots by Tracking Civilian Cars in US

Holloman Air Force Base, at the eastern edge of New Mexico’s White Sands Missile Range, 200 miles south of Albuquerque, was once famous for the daredevil maneuvers of those who trained there. In 1954, Col. John Paul Stapp rode a rocket-propelled sled across the desert, reaching 632 miles per hour, in an attempt to figure out the maximum speed at which jet pilots could safely eject. He slammed on the brakes and was thrust forward with such force that he had to be hauled away on a stretcher, his eyes bleeding from burst capillaries. Six years later, Capt. Joseph Kittinger Jr., testing the height at which pilots could safely bail out, rode a helium-powered balloon up to 102,800 feet. He muttered, “Lord, take care of me now,” dropped for 13 minutes 45 seconds and broke the record for the highest parachute jump.

Today many of the pilots at Holloman never get off the ground. The base has been converted into the U.S. Air Force’s primary training center for drone operators, where pilots spend their days in sand-colored trailers near a runway from which their planes take off without them. Inside each trailer, a pilot flies his plane from a padded chair, using a joystick and throttle, as his partner, the “sensor operator,” focuses on the grainy images moving across a video screen, directing missiles to their targets with a laser.

Holloman sits on almost 60,000 acres of desert badlands, near jagged hills that are frosted with snow for several months of the year — a perfect training ground for pilots who will fly Predators and Reapers over the similarly hostile terrain of Afghanistan. When I visited the base earlier this year with a small group of reporters, we were taken into a command post where a large flat-screen television was broadcasting a video feed from a drone flying overhead. It took a few seconds to figure out exactly what we were looking at. A white S.U.V. traveling along a highway adjacent to the base came into the cross hairs in the center of the screen and was tracked as it headed south along the desert road. When the S.U.V. drove out of the picture, the drone began following another car.

“Wait, you guys practice tracking enemies by using civilian cars?” a reporter asked. One Air Force officer responded that this was only a training mission, and then the group was quickly hustled out of the room.

Though the Pentagon is increasing its fleet of drones by 30 percent and military leaders estimate that, within a year or so, the number of Air Force pilots flying unmanned planes could be higher than the number who actually leave the ground, much about how and where the U.S. government operates drones remains a secret. Even the pilots we interviewed wore black tape over their nametags. The Air Force, citing concerns for the pilots’ safety, forbids them to reveal their last names.

It is widely known that the United States has three different drone programs. The first is the publicly acknowledged program run by the Pentagon that has been operating in Iraq and Afghanistan. The other two are classified programs run separately by the C.I.A. and the military’s Joint Special Operations Command, which maintain separate lists of people targeted for killing.

Over the years, details have trickled out about lethal drone operations in Pakistan, Somalia and Yemen and elsewhere. But the drone war has been even more extensive. According to three current and former intelligence officials I spoke to, in 2006, a barrage of Hellfire missiles from a Predator hit a suspected militant camp in the jungles of the Philippines, in an attempt to kill the Indonesian terrorist Umar Patek. The strike, which was reported at the time as a “Philippine military operation,” missed Patek but killed others at the camp.

The increased use of drones in warfare has led the Air Force to re-engineer its training program for drone pilots. Trainees are now sent to Holloman just months after they join the military, instead of first undergoing traditional pilot training as they did in the past. The Air Force can now produce certified Predator and Reaper pilots in less than two years.

But the accelerated training has created its own problems. When I visited Holloman in February, there had been five drone accidents at the base since 2009. Most of them occurred during landing, when pilots have the most difficulty judging where the plane is in relation to the runway. As much as the military has tried to make drone pilots feel as if they are sitting in a cockpit, they are still flying a plane from a screen with a narrow field of vision.

Then there is the fact that the movement shown on a drone pilot’s video screen has over the years been seconds behind what the drone sees — a delay caused by the time it takes to bounce a signal off a satellite in space. This problem, called “latency,” has long bedeviled drone pilots, making it difficult to hit a moving target. Last year senior operatives with Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula told a Yemeni reporter that if they hear an American drone overhead, they move around as much as possible. (Military officials said that they have made progress in recent years in addressing the latency problem but declined to provide details.)

Stationing pilots in the United States has saved the Air Force money, and pilots at Holloman who have flown drone combat missions speak glowingly about a lifestyle that allows them to fight a war without going to war. Craig, an Air Force captain who is a trainer at the base, volunteered to fly Predators while in flight school. He calls his job “the perfect balance of mission and family.”

And yet this balance comes at a cost. Pilots have flown missions over Afghanistan in the morning, stopped for lunch, fought the Iraq war in the afternoon and then driven home in time for dinner. Lt. Col Matt Martin, formerly a trainer at Holloman, wrote about the disorienting experience of toggling among different war zones in a memoir, “Predator,” calling the experience “enough to make a Predator pilot schizophrenic.”

It’s disorienting in other ways too. Can a pilot who flies planes remotely ever be as heroic as the aces who flew behind enemy lines or as Colonel Stapp, whose stunt in the New Mexico desert won him a prestigious medal for valor and put him on the cover of Time magazine?

Luther (Trey) Turner III, a retired colonel who flew combat missions during the gulf war before he switched to flying Predators in 2003, said that he doesn’t view his combat experience flying drones as “valorous.” “My understanding of the term is that you are faced with danger. And, when I am sitting in a ground-control station thousands of miles away from the battlefield, that’s just not the case.” But, he said, “I firmly believe it takes bravery to fly a U.A.V.” — unmanned aerial vehicle — “particularly when you’re called upon to take someone’s life. In some cases, you are watching it play out live and in color.” As more than one pilot at Holloman told me, a bit defensively, “We’re not just playing video games here.”
 
Obama’s 284 Drone Strikes in Pakistan

One of the most controversial aspects of U.S. foreign policy received mere seconds of discussion in the 90-minute final presidential debate.

“We already know President Obama’s position on this,” said moderator Bob Schieffer. He turned to Mitt Romney. “What is your position on the use of drones?”

“I believe that we should use any and all means necessary to take out people who pose a threat to us and our friends around the world,” Romney responded. “The president was right to up the usage of that technology and believe that we should continue to use it to continue to go after the people who represent a threat to this nation and to our friends.”

Romney agrees with the president, and so do most Americans, but majorities in almost every other country disapprove of drone strikes, according to the Pew Research Center. Drone strikes in Pakistan, Yemen, and Somalia have damaged America’s reputation in strategically important countries.

Critics argue the drone strikes are an overextension of executive power, kill too many civilians, and breed more terrorism. Proponents, including Obama and Romney, say the drone strikes are necessary to prevent terrorism. The CIA recently proposed to expand the strike program into other regions.

In June Slate published a map, based on data from the New America Foundation, showing the locations and kill estimates of reported drone strikes in Pakistan, where most of the drone strikes occur. Since that map was published, the media have reported 22 more, for a total of 284. The map above includes these additional strikes.
 
Lamarr, you've made 2 suggestive posts in succession on the same subject, without an opinion. LOL

What is it ???
 
Lamarr, you've made 2 suggestive posts in succession on the same subject, without an opinion. LOL

What is it ???

Im jus sayin!

When did we start a war with Pakistan?

How long will it be before those same drones are monitoring our neighborhoods here at home?
 
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