Yvette Carnell: CNN’s Roland Martin Blasts Blacks For Not Holding Obama Accountable

[Retired Mizer]

First the LGBT lobby extracted an about face from Obama on marriage equality, moving him to declare his support for same sex marriage. Then today, Obama responded to the needs of the Latino community by allowing students in the U.S. who are already in deportation proceedings, or those who qualify for the DREAM Act, to remain in America without threat of deportation.

This means that President Obama just instated the Dream Act, at the behest of the Latino community, all by himself.
If you’re black and you don’t feel stupid, then you haven’t been paying attention. And many pundits, commentators, and activists obviously hadn’t been paying attention, at least not until recently.
In a series of tweets, CNN’s Roland S. Martin finally came around to the view I’ve held for months, and noted the following:



No shit Sherlock. Problem is, it’s too little too late. It’s hard, damn near impossible, to renegotiate a win in the ninth inning. The time to make the accountability argument would’ve been around early 2010, which just happens to have been around the time I began lighting a fire under of black people to wholeheartedly engage Obama on a black agenda. But when I made the case, all I heard was a bunch of nonsense about how I was a “hater” and how Obama was gonna hook black people up – eventually. Suckers.
Roland Martin had, in his role as CNN commentator (not to be confused with unbiased journalist), a lot of flexibility to ebb that flow of messianic nonsense. He didn’t. He was an apologist for the administration. And so wasVan Jones, who also, as of late, has been ratcheting up his criticisms of Obama.
As Obama continues to hang black people out to dry, a lot of people are going to jump on the *accountability* bandwagon. All I want is for you to remember who was sounding the alarm when it mattered – and who wasn’t.










http://www.yourblackworld.net/2012/...-accountable-better-late-than-never-i-guess/#

 

[QueEx]

Re: Yvette Carnell: CNN’s Roland Martin Blasts Blacks For Not Holding Obama Accountab


Of course, this is an extension of our discussion in: Obama To Stop Deporting Younger Undocumented Immigrants.

While I believe that Roland is such a light-weight, academically and/or as a political pundit (I will expand on that later), I agree, at least in part, with what he is saying. But,

What is it that we want; and

What, exactly, is it that we want the President to do in that regard ???​

Looking for a bit of specifics.

 

[Retired Mizer]

Re: Yvette Carnell: CNN’s Roland Martin Blasts Blacks For Not Holding Obama Accountab

Of course, this is an extension of our discussion in: Obama To Stop Deporting Younger Undocumented Immigrants.

While I believe that Roland is such a light-weight, academically and/or as a political pundit (I will expand on that later), I agree, at least in part, with what he is saying. But,

What is it that we want; and

What, exactly, is it that we want the President to do in that regard ???​

Looking for a bit of specifics.

Yes it is an extension of what we discussed in the other thread. I posted this as a supplement to the points I was making. Whether Martin is a political light-weight or not, is beside the point. The arguments he made are indeed valid and African-Americans can dodge and weave the issue all they want. This blatant, concerted, deliberate lack of accountability is a huge stain on us as a viable political constituency. No one will ever feel the need to address our concerns as a people.

 

[QueEx]

Re: Yvette Carnell: CNN’s Roland Martin Blasts Blacks For Not Holding Obama Accountab


But Heat, what about the questions

I think they go more towards the Real Issues, don't you ? ? ?

Roland and others keep talking about what 'others' are asking and getting.

What exactly are we asking; and what exactly do we want the President to do ???

 

[Alaskanredman]

Of course, this is an extension of our discussion in: Obama To Stop Deporting Younger Undocumented Immigrants.

While I believe that Roland is such a light-weight, academically and/or as a political pundit (I will expand on that later), I agree, at least in part, with what he is saying. But,

What is it that we want; and

What, exactly, is it that we want the President to do in that regard ???​

Looking for a bit of specifics.

I don't know what issue he can pull that would be black specific, but de-clawing the war on drugs is what I want. The problem is how to do it and the extreme blacklash by people confused about how much the drugs vs the criminality of it has hurt us.

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Retired Mizer]

Re: Yvette Carnell: CNN’s Roland Martin Blasts Blacks For Not Holding Obama Accountab

But Heat, what about the questions

I think they go more towards the Real Issues, don't you ? ? ?

Roland and others keep talking about what 'others' are asking and getting.

What exactly are we asking; and what exactly do we want the President to do ???

Real issues? No issues matter if your constituency gives you an immediate pass on any and all issues. I didn't answer them because those issues have nothing to do with holding your political leaders accountable. For your sake I will answer your question though.

Before I do I will not allow the smoke screen or red herring of "Obama can't do anything about that" crap-DID HE TRY????

A. Black unemployment is 16 percent while the national average is around 8-9 percent!
B. Blacks were the biggest victims of the Sub-prime mortgage crisis and lost tremendous amounts of wealth
C. voter suppression laws
D. Hunger and poverty in the face of a catastrophic recession
E. Gun Violence in the black community?
F. educational system
G. For profit schools ripping off minority students disproportionately

and the one in which he could have immediate impact without needing anybody else to help him do it is like Alaskanredman just said-the drug incariration rate-Obama can immediately work to declassify Marijuana as a schedule-1 drug, and immediately reduce the impact of court penalties and reducing the number of black men with criminal records, thus allowing many to have the right to vote.


Legal Classification: Controlled Substances Act 1990

(original 1970)

(http://www.fda.gov/RegulatoryInformation/Legislation/ucm148726.htm)
(DEA listing, See the DEA's Drugs of Abuse, 2011)
(The following is only a partial listing. Decisions as to scheduling may also include amount of a particular substance in a preparation, etc.)

Schedule 1: High Abuse, No Recognized Medical Use, Lack of Safety

Heroin
LSD
MDMA
Marijuana
Methaqualone

Schedule 2: High Abuse, Medical Utility, High Dependency Risk

Opium
Morphine
Coca
Cocaine
Methadone
Methamphetamine

Schedule 3: Lower Abuse, Medical Utility, Moderate Dependency Risk

Amphetamine
Barbiturate
Valium
Xanax
Anabolic Steroids
Codeine

Schedule 4: Limited Abuse, High Medical Utility, Limited Dependency Risk

Chloral Hydrate
Meprobamate
Paraldehyde
Phenobarbital

Sooooo marijuana is worst that cocaine and meth????? WTF????



Now the next thing you will say is "how can Obama do that?" I don't have all the answers, Somethings he can address via executive order and by at least FIGHTING FOR THEM and TAKING A STAND. We have all just seen what a President TAKING A STAND can mean for a cause!! Wha=at about things that can benefit his own people who just so happen to be a MAJOR VOTING CONSTITUENCY of his! This isn't so much about the issues but rather about the lack of black accountability to address ANY ILLS of a loyal voting block!

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Re: Yvette Carnell: CNN’s Roland Martin Blasts Blacks For Not Holding Obama Accountab

Now which of those can he address through Executive Order?

He put forth at least 5 jobs bills and has asked for money to aid states and they can't get through Congress. Either and both of those would directly aid the employment of Black folks.

The Justice Dept is already on the voter suppression bills and has been but each state has to be handled individually.

What does the President do about gun violence anywhere(except where he can send in troops)?


It's easy to list problems and issues but the question is what are people asking for specifically other than "Do something?" Presidents are problem solvers. Never have been, never will be. That's not the job. Johnson didn't come up with the Voting Rights Act or the Civil Right Act. What tangible legislation is any "Black group", for lack of a better phrase, asking of the White House?

I've notice that people with this complaint love to talk generally but get silent when asked for specifics.

 

[GentlemanJack]

Re: Yvette Carnell: CNN’s Roland Martin Blasts Blacks For Not Holding Obama Accountab

and the one in which he could have immediate impact without needing anybody else to help him do it is like Alaskanredman just said-the drug incariration rate-Obama can immediately work to declassify Marijuana as a schedule-1 drug, and immediately reduce the impact of court penalties and reducing the number of black men with criminal records, thus allowing many to have the right to vote.


Legal Classification: Controlled Substances Act 1990

(original 1970)

(http://www.fda.gov/RegulatoryInformation/Legislation/ucm148726.htm)
(DEA listing, See the DEA's Drugs of Abuse, 2011)
(The following is only a partial listing. Decisions as to scheduling may also include amount of a particular substance in a preparation, etc.)

Schedule 1: High Abuse, No Recognized Medical Use, Lack of Safety

Heroin
LSD
MDMA
Marijuana
Methaqualone

Schedule 2: High Abuse, Medical Utility, High Dependency Risk

Opium
Morphine
Coca
Cocaine
Methadone
Methamphetamine

Schedule 3: Lower Abuse, Medical Utility, Moderate Dependency Risk

Amphetamine
Barbiturate
Valium
Xanax
Anabolic Steroids
Codeine

Schedule 4: Limited Abuse, High Medical Utility, Limited Dependency Risk

Chloral Hydrate
Meprobamate
Paraldehyde
Phenobarbital

Sooooo marijuana is worst that cocaine and meth????? WTF????



Now the next thing you will say is "how can Obama do that?" I don't have all the answers, Somethings he can address via executive order and by at least FIGHTING FOR THEM and TAKING A STAND. We have all just seen what a President TAKING A STAND can mean for a cause!! Wha=at about things that can benefit his own people who just so happen to be a MAJOR VOTING CONSTITUENCY of his! This isn't so much about the issues but rather about the lack of black accountability to address ANY ILLS of a loyal voting block!

I agree with what you are saying. As for DEA classifications, the medicinal value of marijuana is only been recognized legitimately in the last decade. The schedule 2 drugs are all still used in medicine in some respect. That alone should make marijuana schedule 2 now.

That said having cocaine without a prescription will get your ass the slammer still.

The issues he needs to address are the unemployment, differential incarceration, and the black on black violence in his own fucking hometown. He already took steps to address the subprime housing issue, but the results haven't started to hit the cities yet.

 

[Retired Mizer]

Re: Yvette Carnell: CNN’s Roland Martin Blasts Blacks For Not Holding Obama Accountab

Now which of those can he address through Executive Order?

He put forth at least 5 jobs bills and has asked for money to aid states and they can't get through Congress. Either and both of those would directly aid the employment of Black folks.

The Justice Dept is already on the voter suppression bills and has been but each state has to be handled individually.

What does the President do about gun violence anywhere(except where he can send in troops)?

It's easy to list problems and issues but the question is what are people asking for specifically other than "Do something?" Presidents are problem solvers. Never have been, never will be. That's not the job. Johnson didn't come up with the Voting Rights Act or the Civil Right Act. What tangible legislation is any "Black group", for lack of a better phrase, asking of the White House?

I've notice that people with this complaint love to talk generally but get silent when asked for specifics.

Exibit A Apologist-notice nothing said at all about the point being made, just "what can Obama do?"
Funny, how two days ago you would have said the same thing about executive order on arresting iAmerican-boarn illegals!

What can Obama do??
He can do OPEN HIS MOUTH-ISNT THAT SOMETHING???

 

[Retired Mizer]

Re: Yvette Carnell: CNN’s Roland Martin Blasts Blacks For Not Holding Obama Accountab

I agree with what you are saying. As for DEA classifications, the medicinal value of marijuana is only been recognized legitimately in the last decade. The schedule 2 drugs are all still used in medicine in some respect. That alone should make marijuana schedule 2 now.

That said having cocaine without a prescription will get your ass the slammer still.

The issues he needs to address are the unemployment, differential incarceration, and the black on black violence in his own fucking hometown. He already took steps to address the subprime housing issue, but the results haven't started to hit the cities yet.

I agree..The president of ALL PEOPLE still needs to be president of ALL PEOPLE! The subprime help he offered was still weak compared to what he really needed to do as it pertained to that issue.

Some in the "keep quiet" school of thought are marginalizing black people out of relevance. We need to get rid of the scary cotillion of black leadership and hold our elected officials responsible whether they are black, white, red or purple.

 

[TheBigOne]

I agree..The president of ALL PEOPLE still needs to be president of ALL PEOPLE! The subprime help he offered was still weak compared to what he really needed to do as it pertained to that issue.

Some in the "keep quiet" school of thought are marginalizing black people out of relevance. We need to get rid of the scary cotillion of black leadership and hold our elected officials responsible whether they are black, white, red or purple.

So, all you're doing is fat mouthing, huh? This is from just one more of the plants that the Repubs are paying to come into black (and progressive) social forums to spread just enough dissension that some of you won't vote in November. This asshole has nothing specific that he wants the President to do except to sound more like Malcolm. You don't think that fixing health care has a greater benefit to black Americans than raising his fist in a salute? I personally know 3 families that were bankrupted because they took a kid to the ER and got hit with the retail cost of curing shit like the flu and because they weren't broke enough for Medicaid or rich enough to afford insurance.

 

[nittie]

Re: Yvette Carnell: CNN’s Roland Martin Blasts Blacks For Not Holding Obama Accountab

Roland is such a light-weight, academically and/or as a political pundit (I will expand on that later

What makes Roland a light weight....tick..tick..waiting for the explanation.

 

[QueEx]

Re: Yvette Carnell: CNN’s Roland Martin Blasts Blacks For Not Holding Obama Accountab

What makes Roland a light weight....tick..tick..waiting for the explanation.

He's often pitted-up against right wingers on CNN, especially on Soledad's Early Start, or whatever its called, and his retorts are far less than desired (at least, from my perspective). Just my opinion, Sir, but he either misses many of the more sophisticated or subtle arguments or he is unprepared to respond to them. In that regard, reminds me a lot of Tavis Smiley, who reminds be of someone being just a step or two ahead of Jesse Jackson. Maybe its just me, but I dislike responses based on rhymes, issue dodging comedy, contradictions, poor logic and/or lack of historical and/or academic perspective.

When I see a black man/woman in a public forum, i.e., T.V., etc., tasked with responding to some right wingers hate-subtle arguments, I expect someone who can hit back hard, who can expose the weak premises - the soft underbelly, who can stand the weak conclusions on their heads - yet who is civil and smooth to the point that when the opponent thinks he hasn't been hit - - he need only shake his gotdamn head to realize that his throat has been cut, head has been severed . . . and its rolling off the gotdamn set !!!

sabe?

 

[Retired Mizer]

Re: Yvette Carnell: CNN’s Roland Martin Blasts Blacks For Not Holding Obama Accountab

So, all you're doing is fat mouthing, huh? This is from just one more of the plants that the Repubs are paying to come into black (and progressive) social forums to spread just enough dissension that some of you won't vote in November. This asshole has nothing specific that he wants the President to do except to sound more like Malcolm. You don't think that fixing health care has a greater benefit to black Americans than raising his fist in a salute? I personally know 3 families that were bankrupted because they took a kid to the ER and got hit with the retail cost of curing shit like the flu and because they weren't broke enough for Medicaid or rich enough to afford insurance.

So I now see that personal attacks are allowed here in the politics forum. I'll keep that in mind going forward.. First off, there is NOTHING PROGRESSIVE about Obama, or his administration. I am not a republican, but a PROGRESSIVE! If Obama isn't doing something, I am not submissive enough to keep quiet on it. This is about holding OBAMA ACCOUNTABLE TO THE VOTERS WHO ELECTED HIM-not sheltering him blindly like your attack on me would suggest we do!

Secondly, Obamacare is and was A REPUBLICAN PLAN!!!!! Romney passed it first. If you REALLY want BLACK PEOPLE COVERED why are you SETTLING for a watered-down plan that still requires you buy PRIVATE INSURANCE???

If you REALLY CARED ABOUT BLACK PEOPLE, then why aren't you up in arms about President Obama TAKING drug price negotiation OFF THE TABLE which would have saved millions of BLACK FOLK, MILLIONS of dollars??????

Where were you when I posted my other thread about Obama secret emails with the pharmaceutical companies where he tells them not to worry he won't push for CHEAPER MEDICINES for Americans! That includes BLACK PEOPLE. I didn't see you there...

Why not support Medicare E- Medicare for EVERYONE where all Americans are covered and the care is FREE??? Why aren't you up in arms about that plan being dismissed? Why aren't you up in arms about black murder and incarceration rates? Why aren't you up in arms about a 16 percent black unemployment rate?

Nooooo, but you got time to personally attack me because I care.

Secondly, what you offered, wasn't offered as a plan to specifically address black people's issues, it was offered to address the majority of Americans-if blacks benefited,then great.


Finally, how can you look at yourself in the mirror and justify blacks not holding those who solicit their votes accountable? Then you attack me, and offer only a flimsy Obamacare bill that didn't do ANYTHING except turn over MILLIONS of more people to the health insurance companies?

While you waste energy and time attacking me-Gays, women and now Latinos get their voices heard and actions taken towards their constituencies. What do blacks get? we get: "we got YO back" radio advertisements!

What do we blacks get? We get Black "gestaphos" who attack other blacks in attempts to ostracize them when they courageously stand up for the black voter existence! Something that the so-called black supporters of the supposedly black president are all scared to do!

This is why we are where we are as a people! We are the laughing-stocks of the country-the only constituency who gives its vote away for free! "Just sing a little Al Green,or talk about Young Jeezy and these neegroes will vote for ya, Barack!" We didn't have to expend ANY political capital for them!

 

[GhostofMarcus]

Re: Yvette Carnell: CNN’s Roland Martin Blasts Blacks For Not Holding Obama Accountab

So I now see that personal attacks are allowed here in the politics forum. I'll keep that in mind going forward.. First off, there is NOTHING PROGRESSIVE about Obama, or his administration. I am not a republican, but a PROGRESSIVE! If Obama isn't doing something, I am not submissive enough to keep quiet on it. This is about holding OBAMA ACCOUNTABLE TO THE VOTERS WHO ELECTED HIM-not sheltering him blindly like your attack on me would suggest we do!

Secondly, Obamacare is and was A REPUBLICAN PLAN!!!!! Romney passed it first. If you REALLY want BLACK PEOPLE COVERED why are you SETTLING for a watered-down plan that still requires you buy PRIVATE INSURANCE???

If you REALLY CARED ABOUT BLACK PEOPLE, then why aren't you up in arms about President Obama TAKING drug price negotiation OFF THE TABLE which would have saved millions of BLACK FOLK, MILLIONS of dollars??????

Where were you when I posted my other thread about Obama secret emails with the pharmaceutical companies where he tells them not to worry he won't push for CHEAPER MEDICINES for Americans! That includes BLACK PEOPLE. I didn't see you there...

Why not support Medicare E- Medicare for EVERYONE where all Americans are covered and the care is FREE??? Why aren't you up in arms about that plan being dismissed? Why aren't you up in arms about black murder and incarceration rates? Why aren't you up in arms about a 16 percent black unemployment rate?

Nooooo, but you got time to personally attack me because I care.

Secondly, what you offered, wasn't offered as a plan to specifically address black people's issues, it was offered to address the majority of Americans-if blacks benefited,then great.


Finally, how can you look at yourself in the mirror and justify blacks not holding those who solicit their votes accountable? Then you attack me, and offer only a flimsy Obamacare bill that didn't do ANYTHING except turn over MILLIONS of more people to the health insurance companies?

While you waste energy and time attacking me-Gays, women and now Latinos get their voices heard and actions taken towards their constituencies. What do blacks get? we get: "we got YO back" radio advertisements!

What do we blacks get? We get Black "gestaphos" who attack other blacks in attempts to ostracize them when they courageously stand up for the black voter existence! Something that the so-called black supporters of the supposedly black president are all scared to do!

This is why we are where we are as a people! We are the laughing-stocks of the country-the only constituency who gives its vote away for free! "Just sing a little Al Green,or talk about Young Jeezy and these neegroes will vote for ya, Barack!" We didn't have to expend ANY political capital for them!

Please tell me what gays, women and Latinos has gotten?
gays- the man said him didn't care if they married. You worried about that?

women- the bill failed for equal pay. Don't your black ass have a black mother or sister that should have equal pay? So he did do something for black people.

Latinos- he gave the younger ones a pass if they do right. There are black Latinos also, the bill does not state just Mexicans. Plus who cares, they already here.

If you need a job get your skills right, don't wait on one one to do anything for you.
He has also put money into community collages, but it is up to the black man and women to upgrade his or her skills

 

[Retired Mizer]

Re: Yvette Carnell: CNN’s Roland Martin Blasts Blacks For Not Holding Obama Accountab

Please tell me what gays, women and Latinos has gotten?
gays- the man said him didn't care if they married. You worried about that?

women- the bill failed for equal pay. Don't your black ass have a black mother or sister that should have equal pay? So he did do something for black people.

Latinos- he gave the younger ones a pass if they do right. There are black Latinos also, the bill does not state just Mexicans. Plus who cares, they already here.

If you need a job get your skills right, don't wait on one one to do anything for you.
He has also put money into community collages, but it is up to the black man and women to upgrade his or her skills

WoW! More personal attacks-great,as well as the old tired argument, pick your OWN self up by the boot strap! SMH
Funny, but Obama isn't telling GAYS, WOMEN OR LATINOS to that!

Now, what has Obama done for those particular groups??? HE ADVOCATED FOR THEM!!!HE SPECIFICALLY MENTIONED AND SUPPORTED INTEREST SPECIFIC TO THEIR INTEREST GROUPS!!!

WHAT HAS ADVOCATED FOR BLACK PEOPLE??? Not a damn thing b ecause he is scared too!

What has Obama done SPECIFICALLY FOR BLACK PEOPLE???? NOT stuff that blacks HAVE ALSO BENEFITTED from-WHAT HAS HE SPECIFICALLY ADVOCATED FOR THAT SPECIFICALLY ADDRESS HIS BLACK CONSTIUENCY???

And you got the nerve to have Marcus Mosiah Garvey as your avatar!?!?!

 

[QueEx]

Re: Yvette Carnell: CNN’s Roland Martin Blasts Blacks For Not Holding Obama Accountab

So I now see that personal attacks are allowed here in the politics forum. I'll keep that in mind going forward..

Not. And, don't forget that you started this topic; that you've been long on rhetoric - - but you've been short on support to back-up that rhetoric.

 

[Retired Mizer]

Re: Yvette Carnell: CNN’s Roland Martin Blasts Blacks For Not Holding Obama Accountab

Not. And, don't forget that you started this topic; that you've been long on rhetoric - - but you've been short on support to back-up that rhetoric.

WHO DID I PERSONALLY ATTACK??????? YOU REALLY WANT TO GO DOWN THIS PATH? THESE ARE YOUR RULES; RIGHT OR WRONG???????

What rhetoric equals personal attack???
Also I have backed up everything I have said and gave how I disagreed with Obama.

You are allowing personal beliefs to allow you to bend your own rules. I don't care if everybody disagrees with me, I didn't personally attack anybody and I have facts on my side to support what I posted! I challenge you right now DISPROVE what I have written?

 

[Retired Mizer]

Re: Yvette Carnell: CNN’s Roland Martin Blasts Blacks For Not Holding Obama Accountab

Rules of the Board
First off, let me extend to all that come my sincere welcome and apology. Welcome to the "New" Politics and Topics of the Day Board; and my apology that all of those great threads of debate and comment didn't make it across the diaspora. Nevertheless, the same rules apply:

Rule Number 1. No "Personal Attacks" between users. Of course, at some point we all may be guilty of being a bit over zealous in making our points and sometimes frustration may lead to someone accusing another of being .... well ... lets just say, less than intelligent. LOL. Nevertheless, I think it is important that the discussion remains civil and that we avoid the personal attacks.

Rule Number 2. If you must resort to personal attacks to prove your point or disprove someone else's opinions, etc., then perhaps you need to take that to the BGOL board where talking shit is not only tolerated, but expected.


Rule Number 3. No "N" words. If you can't express yourself without resort to calling your fellow brother or sister an "N" -- then you don't belong on this board.

Now lets get it on and re-make this board what it was before.

Peace,

QueEx

 

[QueEx]

Re: Yvette Carnell: CNN’s Roland Martin Blasts Blacks For Not Holding Obama Accountab

First off, there is NOTHING PROGRESSIVE about Obama, or his administration.

Your opinion and you're entitled to it. If you want it to carry some weight, back it up with specifics -- and not just more, of your opinion

I am not a republican, but a PROGRESSIVE! If Obama isn't doing something, I am not submissive enough to keep quiet on it. This is about holding OBAMA ACCOUNTABLE TO THE VOTERS WHO ELECTED HIM-not sheltering him blindly like your attack on me would suggest we do!

Great, you're a Progressive. Now, what "Specifically" do you want him to do ??? And, what "Specifically" do you want him to do about it ???

Secondly, Obamacare is and was A REPUBLICAN PLAN!!!!! Romney passed it first. If you REALLY want BLACK PEOPLE COVERED why are you SETTLING for a watered-down plan that still requires you buy PRIVATE INSURANCE???

Was there a national healthcare plan before Obama passed it ??? You know the answer is NO. So, he didn't get the plan through AS YOU would have preferred. Does that mean he did nothing, or something ???

Better question: were the dynamics present for a "less watered-down plan" - if so, make that argument and make it strongly -- so it doesn't look like your real complaint is just, sour grapes.

. . . why aren't <s>you</s> [black people] up in arms about President Obama TAKING drug price negotiation OFF THE TABLE which would have saved millions of BLACK FOLK, MILLIONS of dollars??????

Didn't we take this up in another thread??? Did the discussion not center around the fact that there were negotiations; that in negotiations there is give and take; and that rarely does both parties to the negotiation get everything that each wanted ???

Again, the President "did something" - but apparently it was not exactly what you wanted. Unless you can demonstrate (factually, please) why the President could have gotten everything YOU wanted out of the deal, you're looking more like sour grapes than sound argument.

Why not support Medicare E- Medicare for EVERYONE where all Americans are covered and the care is FREE???

Well, here is something specific.

What do you want the President to do in this regard ???

How do you propose black people inform the president of your idea (this is the first time I've heard of this idea) ???

And, while you're at it, if you don't mind: How do you propose it be paid for ???

What <s>aren't you up in arms</s> about [the] black murder and incarceration rates?

Again, what "specifically" do you want the President to do about each ???

Why aren't you up in arms about a 16 percent black unemployment rate?

Again, what "specifically" do you want the President to do ???

While you waste energy and time attacking me-Gays, women and now Latinos get their voices heard and actions taken towards their constituencies. What do blacks get? we get: "we got YO back" radio advertisements!

What "specifically" have we asked for ???

How do you propose we ask for it ???

AND, what specifically do you want the President to do about it

 

[QueEx]

Re: Yvette Carnell: CNN’s Roland Martin Blasts Blacks For Not Holding Obama Accountab

WHO DID I PERSONALLY ATTACK??????? YOU REALLY WANT TO GO DOWN THIS PATH? THESE ARE YOUR RULES; RIGHT OR WRONG???????

Whoa Bro; I didn't accuse of anything, but I did respond to your accusation that you were the subject of personal attacks = I didn't think so (if you disagree, please point out specifically the attack that you're referring to -- I'd be happy to look at it from your perspective). In the meantime, I'm not afraid of any gotdamn road you wish to travel. Don't invoke the rules, however, when what you're saying is not well taken or not well expressed.

You are allowing personal beliefs to allow you to bend your own rules. I don't care if everybody disagrees with me, I didn't personally attack anybody and I have facts on my side to support what I posted! I challenge you right now DISPROVE what I have written?

You point out what "fact" you want me dispute, and I'll be more than happy to agree if you're right, disagree with you and tell you why, if I think you're wrong; or, point out how its just your opinion, and not fact.

 

[Retired Mizer]

Re: Yvette Carnell: CNN’s Roland Martin Blasts Blacks For Not Holding Obama Accountab

Your opinion and you're entitled to it. If you want it to carry some weight, back it up with specifics -- and not just more, of your opinion


Your playing dumb read my post! YOU PROVE that Obama is a Progressive-you can't because he is NOT I have written in this thread why he isn't






Great, you're a Progressive. Now, what "Specifically" do you want him to do ??? And, what "Specifically" do you want him to do about it ???



See above answer and reread thread-reading is fundamental!!!



Was there a national healthcare plan before Obama passed it ??? You know the answer is NO. So, he didn't get the plan through AS YOU would have preferred. Does that mean he did nothing, or something ???

What plan did he get passed? wasn't it Romney's YES or NO??? All if did was add MILLIONS of people to FOR PROFIT insurance companies AND DENIED DRUG PRICE NEGOTIATION AND IMPORTATION-AM I LYING????



Better question: were the dynamics present for a "less watered-down plan" - if so, make that argument and make it strongly -- so it doesn't look like your real complaint is just, sour grapes.

MY INITIAL ARGUMENT WAS ABOUT OBAMA not fighting for his african american constiuents you are presenting a red herring here. I don't give a damn about conditions, I am talking about what Obama DID! Were there condidtions for a less watered-down drug plan YES what say YOU ABOUT THAT TOPIC??? NOthing! Now stay on the damn topic.





Didn't we take this up in another thread??? Did the discussion not center around the fact that there were negotiations; that in negotiations there is give and take; and that rarely does both parties to the negotiation get everything that each wanted ???

What negotiations were there concering Obama standing up for colored folks and presenting intitiatives to improve their lives like he did for other races and interest groups??? My intitial post in this thread was for THAT discussion. If you want to be an Obama apologist then be that, but don't claim impartiality and fairness because you are not sir when you break your own rules!


Again, the President "did something" - but apparently it was not exactly what you wanted. Unless you can demonstrate (factually, please) why the President could have gotten everything YOU wanted out of the deal, you're looking more like sour grapes than sound argument.


This is where we differ- you say Obama did something and I agree, he "did something" alright-for gays, women, latinos as well as the private, for profit insurance companies by providing them with MILLIONS MORE PEOPLE TO SCREW OVER!
.
you keep saying I haven't proved anything- I disagree! So if that is the case then it is on you to then prove where I am wrong????

[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

Well, here is something specific.

What do you want the President to do in this regard ???

DUPLICATE QUESTION

How do you propose black people inform the president of your idea (this is the first time I've heard of this idea) ???

Give a break-how did the Latinos do it? How did the women relay their interest to Obama? How about the Gays? I tell you what they DID NOT DO? THEY DID NOT ATTACK THEIR OWN PEOPLE WHO TRIED TO HOLD THEIR ELECTED OFFICIALS ACCOUNTABLE! They did not try to censor and marginalize those who wanted the best for their own race! I can go on...

And, while you're at it, if you don't mind: How do you propose it be paid for ???

Opening ones mouth and growing BALLS is still free of charge? How much did it cost the US Government to NOT enforce illegal immigrant deportation of American born Latinos??? How much did it cost to say "I support gay marriage?"




[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]



Again, what "specifically" do you want the President to do about each ???



yawn-duplicate question


[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]



Again, what "specifically" do you want the President to do ???

See above...



[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]


What "specifically" have we asked for ???

You tell me???

How do you propose we ask for it ???

Again, you tell me? What nothing?

AND, what specifically do you want the President to do about it

OPEN HIS DAMN MOUTH AND STOP BEING SCARED TO STAND FOR ANYTHING THAT AFFECTS BLACK PEOPLE!

See my answeres above in RED

 

[QueEx]

Re: Yvette Carnell: CNN’s Roland Martin Blasts Blacks For Not Holding Obama Accountab

Your opinion and you're entitled to it. If you want it to carry some weight, back it up with specifics -- and not just more, of your opinion


Your playing dumb read my post! YOU PROVE that Obama is a Progressive-you can't because he is NOT I have written in this thread why he isn't



Great, you're a Progressive. Now, what "Specifically" do you want him to do ??? And, what "Specifically" do you want him to do about it ???



See above answer and reread thread-reading is fundamental!!!



I didn't make one statement characterizing Barack Obama, one way or another. You appear to be itching more for a personal argument with me, than debating your points.
Since it was you who made the statement about Obama being a "Progressive", naturally, the burden of proof is, on you. No?

You've taken a lot of time responding to me, but the ONE THING you have still yet to do is, state with specificity what you want the president to do; and tell us exactly what you want the president to do about it.

I'm not interested in a personal back and forth - but I don't mind engaging in a serious conversation, debate, discourse, etc. You reprimand me for venturing from the issues, yett fail to heed our own advice.

 

[Retired Mizer]

Re: Yvette Carnell: CNN’s Roland Martin Blasts Blacks For Not Holding Obama Accountab

Whoa Bro; I didn't accuse of anything, but I did respond to your accusation that you were the subject of personal attacks = I didn't think so (if you disagree, please point out specifically the attack that you're referring to -- I'd be happy to look at it from your perspective). In the meantime, I'm not afraid of any gotdamn road you wish to travel. Don't invoke the rules, however, when what you're saying is not well taken or not well expressed.


You point out what "fact" you want me dispute, and I'll be more than happy to agree if you're right, disagree with you and tell you why, if I think you're wrong; or, point out how its just your opinion, and not fact.

Don't involve the rules.....got it!
Allow personal attacks towards me when Que Ex determines it just....check.

I see you're speaking French and I Japanese. If that is the case then just pass by my post. Time will show just who was right. What I have a problem with is hypocrisy. You banned me for that very offense and I thought we cleared the air. I came back and I make my points without personal attacks now, only to find the very same rules now not enforced. I cannot understand what is so enraging to want to call out when a person is taking advantage of his own peoples vote. You cats here are a unique bunch indeed

 

[QueEx]

Re: Yvette Carnell: CNN’s Roland Martin Blasts Blacks For Not Holding Obama Accountab

Don't involve the rules.....got it!
Allow personal attacks towards me when Que Ex determines it just....check.

I see you're speaking French and I Japanese. If that is the case then just pass by my post. Time will show just who was right.

What I have a problem with is hypocrisy. You banned me for that very offense and I thought we cleared the air.​

​

I came back and I make my points without personal attacks now, only to find the very same rules now not enforced. I cannot understand what is so enraging to want to call out when a person is taking advantage of his own peoples vote. You cats here are a unique bunch indeed

Ahhh. So there is something personal here. ???

Acually, I forgot about that long ago. Obviously, its stuck in your craw and obvious in your responses, or relevant lack thereof (relevant lack thereof = failure to respond, on point, to the questions, instead of just more rhetoric).

 

[Retired Mizer]

Re: Yvette Carnell: CNN’s Roland Martin Blasts Blacks For Not Holding Obama Accountab

Your opinion and you're entitled to it. If you want it to carry some weight, back it up with specifics -- and not just more, of your opinion


Your playing dumb read my post! YOU PROVE that Obama is a Progressive-you can't because he is NOT I have written in this thread why he isn't



Great, you're a Progressive. Now, what "Specifically" do you want him to do ??? And, what "Specifically" do you want him to do about it ???



See above answer and reread thread-reading is fundamental!!!



I didn't make one statement characterizing Barack Obama, one way or another. You appear to be itching more for a personal argument with me, than debating your points.
Since it was you who made the statement about Obama being a "Progressive", naturally, the burden of proof is, on you. No?

I SAID HE WAS NOT A PROGRESSIVE-REREAD!


You've taken a lot of time responding to me, but the ONE THING you have still yet to do is, state with specificity what you want the president to do; and tell us exactly what you want the president to do about it.

Your question is a fake one since the thread is about Obam and his lack of outreach towards blacks, NOT what Heat Mizer is telling Obama what to do!!! Try again! Better, yet adress the crux of my origninal argument


I'm not interested in a personal back and forth - but I don't mind engaging in a serious conversation, debate, discourse, etc. You reprimand me for venturing from the issues, yett fail to heed our own advice.

I wasn't interested in a personal back and forth but you took it there when you attacked me when I honestly, correctly stated your hypocrisy

See above in RED. I hate intellectual dishonesty.

 

[Retired Mizer]

Re: Yvette Carnell: CNN’s Roland Martin Blasts Blacks For Not Holding Obama Accountab

Ahhh. So there is something personal here. ???

Acually, I forgot about that long ago. Obviously, its stuck in your craw and obvious in your responses, or relevant lack thereof (relevant lack thereof = failure to respond, on point, to the questions, instead of just more rhetoric).

And a hypocrite you are. Using smoke-screen words, yet you can't adress the point of this thread. This wasn;t an issue until your hypcrisy made it so

 

[QueEx]

Re: Yvette Carnell: CNN’s Roland Martin Blasts Blacks For Not Holding Obama Accountab

And a hypocrite you are. Using smoke-screen words, yet you can't adress the point of this thread. This wasn;t an issue until your hypcrisy made it so

I asked you to point out the got damn "Personal Attack" - You haven't.

I asked you to point out what you want the President to do; and how you want him to do it - You haven't.

Now, I will ask you to point out the hypocrisy.

-- going to run some errands, grace me with your intelligent responses; and miss me with this personal bullshit. I'll read and respond accordingly, when I return.

Happy Fathers Day (if you are)

Happy Brothers Day, (even if you aren't)

Peace,

QueEx

 

[nittie]

Re: Yvette Carnell: CNN’s Roland Martin Blasts Blacks For Not Holding Obama Accountab

He's often pitted-up against right wingers on CNN, especially on Soledad's Early Start, or whatever its called, and his retorts are far less than desired (at least, from my perspective). Just my opinion, Sir, but he either misses many of the more sophisticated or subtle arguments or he is unprepared to respond to them. In that regard, reminds me a lot of Tavis Smiley, who reminds be of someone being just a step or two ahead of Jesse Jackson. Maybe its just me, but I dislike responses based on rhymes, issue dodging comedy, contradictions, poor logic and/or lack of historical and/or academic perspective.

When I see a black man/woman in a public forum, i.e., T.V., etc., tasked with responding to some right wingers hate-subtle arguments, I expect someone who can hit back hard, who can expose the weak premises - the soft underbelly, who can stand the weak conclusions on their heads - yet who is civil and smooth to the point that when the opponent thinks he hasn't been hit - - he need only shake his gotdamn head to realize that his throat has been cut, head has been severed . . . and its rolling off the gotdamn set !!!

sabe?

Every week I have to spend about 45 minutes in a office full of whites. I don't feel comfortable with the situation and neither do they but we need each other for business. When Roland is in a situation like he is he's going to represent, stand like his idea of a man. That brings us to the issue of the "Ideal" in America, the blonde blue eye white male and with his way of doing things. Anything that conflicts with the ideal is considered wrong, inferior but as the demographics change and America becomes darker Roland and his ways will become more acceptable than Anderson or Soledad's.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Re: Yvette Carnell: CNN’s Roland Martin Blasts Blacks For Not Holding Obama Accountab

Exibit A Apologist-notice nothing said at all about the point being made, just "what can Obama do?"

I've listened to that "point" over and over ad nauseum but when I ask for specifics, I'm called an "apologist".
I'm not. What am I is someone who likes to see concrete solutions instead of more rhetoric.
I'm not a guy who likes to feel better, I like to do better.


I noticed my questions, as usual, were not answered.

Funny, how two days ago you would have said the same thing about executive order on arresting iAmerican-boarn illegals!

What can Obama do??
He can do OPEN HIS MOUTH-ISNT THAT SOMETHING???

1. If you want to know what I would have said two days ago, you should have asked me two days ago. I'm not shy, I'll tell you.

2. What he did was something any local prosecutor or police dept can do: he called off the dogs. He did what he could do within his power (and it's not an Executive Order and there's no such thing as an "American born illegal").

No, opening his mouth isnt's something. It is if you don't want anything but I'm not easily satisfied. That's always been the problem with a lot of people who talk that garbage, they "fell in love" with Obama and they just want him to whisper that old shit in their ear again. They don't even need him to do anything, just get him hot and moist with his words and they'll fall back in line.

 

[Cruise]

Re: Yvette Carnell: CNN’s Roland Martin Blasts Blacks For Not Holding Obama Accountab

I see QueEx is still doing that...

nothing is a fact/evidence unless it supports Obama

routine.

The rules of the Obama fanatic...

(1) Obama is black.
(2) Obama cannot do anything for black people because he is the President of all people, not just black people.
Corollary: Black people are not ALL people so therefore Obama cannot help black people.
(3) Obama cannot do anything because of the Republicans.
(4) Obama can only do things that Republicans want.
Corollary: Democrats cannot get anything they want.
(5) Any fact, evidence, experience, or testimony that criticizes Obama is either opinion, rhetoric, racist, or uninformed.
Corollary: Nothing exists that can be construed to show Obama is wrong, otherwise it is invalid.
(6) Any black person that does not support Obama is wrong.
Corollary: All black people who support Obama are right.
(7) All black people owe Obama their undying loyalty.
Yet, Obama has no obligation to any black people, other than his family.
(8) Nothing Obama does is wrong, even when it is exactly the same thing as Bush or the Republicans, or how much damage it causes, or how much it wastes.
Corollary: If you agree with Obama, you are right. If you disagree with Obama, you are wrong.
When Obama murders, this leads to obvious conflicts, which leads to reponses of... well, Obama had to do it.
Therefore, Obama can commit no war crimes, no crimes against humanity, and is absolved all criminal responsibility, because he had to do it.


Obama-bots are as predictable as the Tea Party nuts, Limbaugh dittoheads, or the birther crazies.

They are just the flip side of the coin... unreasonable, fanatics, and blind to the truth.

 

[GhostofMarcus]

Re: Yvette Carnell: CNN’s Roland Martin Blasts Blacks For Not Holding Obama Accountab

WoW! More personal attacks-great,as well as the old tired argument, pick your OWN self up by the boot strap! SMH
Funny, but Obama isn't telling GAYS, WOMEN OR LATINOS to that!

Now, what has Obama done for those particular groups??? HE ADVOCATED FOR THEM!!!HE SPECIFICALLY MENTIONED AND SUPPORTED INTEREST SPECIFIC TO THEIR INTEREST GROUPS!!!

WHAT HAS ADVOCATED FOR BLACK PEOPLE??? Not a damn thing b ecause he is scared too!

What has Obama done SPECIFICALLY FOR BLACK PEOPLE???? NOT stuff that blacks HAVE ALSO BENEFITTED from-WHAT HAS HE SPECIFICALLY ADVOCATED FOR THAT SPECIFICALLY ADDRESS HIS BLACK CONSTIUENCY???

And you got the nerve to have Marcus Mosiah Garvey as your avatar!?!?!

I wasn't attacking you. So he advocated from which type of women? I thought he was advocating for all American women. I bet you are one of those that don't what to be called African American but just American, but now separate black form being American.

What has Obama done SPECIFICALLY FOR WHITE PEOPLE????

Yeah, I do have Marcus Mosiah Garvey as my avatar and if you knew anything about the man, then you would know to do for self. He didn't wait on no government to build or do shit for him, he did it himself.

If you don't pull yourself up then nobody else will.

Here are a couple of quotes that I go by.

I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday. ~Abraham Lincoln

Learning is a treasure that will follow its owner everywhere. ~Chinese Proverb

I find four great classes of students: The dumb who stay dumb. The dumb who become wise. The wise who go dumb. The wise who remain wise. ~Martin H. Fischer

The most useful piece of learning for the uses of life is to unlearn what is untrue. ~Antisthenes

Like I said not a personal attack, just letting you know how I feel about your post.

Well I have spent enough time on dumb shit now back to building my mind.

 

[Retired Mizer]

Re: Yvette Carnell: CNN’s Roland Martin Blasts Blacks For Not Holding Obama Accountab

I wasn't attacking you. So he advocated from which type of women? I thought he was advocating for all American women. I bet you are one of those that don't what to be called African American but just American, but now separate black form being American.

What has Obama done SPECIFICALLY FOR WHITE PEOPLE????

Yeah, I do have Marcus Mosiah Garvey as my avatar and if you knew anything about the man, then you would know to do for self. He didn't wait on no government to build or do shit for him, he did it himself.

If you don't pull yourself up then nobody else will.

Here are a couple of quotes that I go by.

I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday. ~Abraham Lincoln

Learning is a treasure that will follow its owner everywhere. ~Chinese Proverb

I find four great classes of students: The dumb who stay dumb. The dumb who become wise. The wise who go dumb. The wise who remain wise. ~Martin H. Fischer

The most useful piece of learning for the uses of life is to unlearn what is untrue. ~Antisthenes

Like I said not a personal attack, just letting you know how I feel about your post.

Well I have spent enough time on dumb shit now back to building my mind.

"Negroes should be more determined today than they have ever been, because the mighty forces of the world are operating against the non-organized groups of people, who are not ambitious enough to protect their own interests." -Marcus Garvey

"The white man has succeeded in subduing the world by forcing everybody to think his way. The white man?s propaganda has made him the master of the world. And those who have come in contact with it and accepted it have become his slaves."
-Marcus Garvey


"Men who are in earnest are not afraid of consequences.
-Marcus Garvey, The Philosophy and Opinions of Marcus Garvey







You did attacked me personally.
Now, its funny how everybody wants blacks to do for self when it comes to holding a black elected official accountable by those blacks WHO VOTED FOR HIM!

Garvey wouldn't be seen supporting a man who was ashamed to stand up for their own blackness. Attached below, we see what your beloved Obama felt about Garvey.

You guys need to reconcile your blind love for a black president Obama, with your reverence for strong black leaders from our historic past who would immediately denouce Obama as anything but being pro black!


JAMAICA - Obama rejects pardon request for Marcus Garvey


http://www.caricomnewsnetwork.com/i...equest-for-marcus-garvey&catid=54:latest-news


Obama admin: Pardoning Garvey a waste of time and resources


http://uhurunews.com/story?resource_name=obama-admin-pardoning-garvey-a-waste-of-time-and-resources


My favorite quote: Don't piss on my head and then tell me it's raining!

 

[Retired Mizer]

Re: Yvette Carnell: CNN’s Roland Martin Blasts Blacks For Not Holding Obama Accountab

I've listened to that "point" over and over ad nauseum but when I ask for specifics, I'm called an "apologist".
I'm not. What am I is someone who likes to see concrete solutions instead of more rhetoric.
I'm not a guy who likes to feel better, I like to do better.


I noticed my questions, as usual, were not answered.



1. If you want to know what I would have said two days ago, you should have asked me two days ago. I'm not shy, I'll tell you.

2. What he did was something any local prosecutor or police dept can do: he called off the dogs. He did what he could do within his power (and it's not an Executive Order and there's no such thing as an "American born illegal").

No, opening his mouth isnt's something. It is if you don't want anything but I'm not easily satisfied. That's always been the problem with a lot of people who talk that garbage, they "fell in love" with Obama and they just want him to whisper that old shit in their ear again. They don't even need him to do anything, just get him hot and moist with his words and they'll fall back in line.

Going back and forth with you is like trying to convince a Branch Davidian that David Koresch ISN'T their prophet. Good day!

 

[QueEx]

Re: Yvette Carnell: CNN’s Roland Martin Blasts Blacks For Not Holding Obama Accountab

I see QueEx is still doing that...

nothing is a fact/evidence unless it supports Obama

routine.

The rules of the Obama fanatic...

(1) Obama is black.
(2) Obama cannot do anything for black people because he is the President of all people, not just black people.
Corollary: Black people are not ALL people so therefore Obama cannot help black people.
(3) Obama cannot do anything because of the Republicans.
(4) Obama can only do things that Republicans want.
Corollary: Democrats cannot get anything they want.
(5) Any fact, evidence, experience, or testimony that criticizes Obama is either opinion, rhetoric, racist, or uninformed.
Corollary: Nothing exists that can be construed to show Obama is wrong, otherwise it is invalid.
(6) Any black person that does not support Obama is wrong.
Corollary: All black people who support Obama are right.
(7) All black people owe Obama their undying loyalty.
Yet, Obama has no obligation to any black people, other than his family.
(8) Nothing Obama does is wrong, even when it is exactly the same thing as Bush or the Republicans, or how much damage it causes, or how much it wastes.
Corollary: If you agree with Obama, you are right. If you disagree with Obama, you are wrong.
When Obama murders, this leads to obvious conflicts, which leads to reponses of... well, Obama had to do it.
Therefore, Obama can commit no war crimes, no crimes against humanity, and is absolved all criminal responsibility, because he had to do it.


Obama-bots are as predictable as the Tea Party nuts, Limbaugh dittoheads, or the birther crazies.

They are just the flip side of the coin... unreasonable, fanatics, and blind to the truth.

Now I understand how you get it so wrong, so frequently.

I don't have the time nor the care to break it all down for you, but I will point out that your #1 and #2 and your faulty conclusion (you call it a corollary) = "Black people are not ALL people so therefore Obama cannot help black people" in your syllogism - reflect poorly upon you and expose your faulty thought processes, in general.
YOU SAID:

- Obama is Black;

- Obama is President of ALL people;

- therefore Obama cannot help black people" - because Black people are NOT all people

(what are some black people: animals, reptiles, aliens, fucking birds ???? ​

That statement is as illogical as it gets for simple reason that All black people, are people.


You should first learn how to construct a syllogism (its very easy, logically speaking) -- before you open your mouth and embarass all black people.


BTW, I'm sure there is something that Obama could do that might might benefit only black people. BUT, what is it ??? (this is the $64M question that has avoided an honest attempt at an answer, so far . . .).




.