The Avengers - Was there more to Loki's plan?

monsterman

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So if you've seen this movie, check this shit out

https://maskofreason.wordpress.com/2012/05/23/very-good-writing-why-loki-won-in-the-avengers/

Very Good Writing – Why Loki Won in The Avengers
Spoiler Alert!
Avoid reading this post if you haven’t seen The Avengers.

No really, look away!

O.k., let’s talk about The Avengers, the highest grossing movie so far this year, and the movie on track to potentially unseat James Cameron’s Avatar as highest grossing movie of all time. Specifically, I want to talk about the writing and Loki, the film’s key villain. More specifically, I want to explain how Joss Whedon managed to write the perfect Xanatos Gambit.

For those who don’t know or didn’t click the link above, a Xanatos Gambit (named for the villain Xanatos from Disney’s Gargoyles cartoon) is a plan that literally cannot fail because win or lose, the villain wins. This is one of those “I wanted you to beat me all along” scenarios, where defeating the villain somehow means the hero still loses. This isn’t changing your plans to compensate or getting lucky, this is planning all along for every possible outcome to lead to what you want. And Loki in the Avengers does so perfectly.

First, let’s get some background on Loki, God of Mischief and Lies. Check out that title – he’s the god of lies. Now in both the Marvel cinematic and comic book universes, being a “god” doesn’t really make you the embodiment of whatever you’re the god of; the comic book universe DOES have those things (Death, Eternity, Aeon, etc.) and the cinematic universe may gain those things (based on the Thanos cameo), but generally Thor is not the embodiment of thunder, and Hercules isn’t the embodiment of strength, etc. It’s just what they’re really good at, because they are actually alien beings from another dimension. Loki, then, is not the embodiment of lies and mischief, but he’s really good at it.

Loki really has only one goal in life – take over Asgard. He wants to rule. He feels Thor, his half brother, is not fit to take over for 0din and he wants that power for himself. Loki does not care one wit about Midgard (aka Earth). He’ll put it in peril to distract Thor, but Loki is all about controlling Asgard. Re-read those last two sentences – Loki doesn’t care about Earth! So why, in The Avengers, is he trying to take over? That very question is asked by Tony Stark during the penthouse scene. Tony comes very close to puzzling it out, but Loki distracts him with his villainy goodness (badness?). Why does Loki was to rule Earth? And what Earth would be left to rule with the Chitauri tearing it all up? What throne is he looking for?

The answer, of course, is that Loki doesn’t want to rule Earth. He doesn’t care about it. He never did. He allowed himself to be captured, he allowed himself to be defeated (and yeah, Hulk smashed him good, but he didn’t have to stick around for the big fight). It was all part of his plan.

Let’s examine that plan: first, Loki appears and steals the tesseract. Why? Well, to set things in motion. He knew stealing the cube would cause Nick Fury to call in the Avengers. Remember the ending of Thor – he’s been spying on the whole operation for some time now. Then, Loki gets captured. He clearly could have escaped, but instead he let himself be taken. Cap and Tony mention this on the Quinjet just before Thor shows up, and Black Widow eventually gets from Loki what his plan is – to set off the Hulk on the helicarrier. Only Loki is the god of lies…you think he really got played by the Black Widow? Nope, he WANTED them to know what the plan was. Then when it happens, and the Hulk goes berserk, they blame it on Loki and it really brings the team together.

And that’s what Loki wanted.

See, Loki wanted them to defeat the Chitauri. He wanted to lose the battle in New York. Why? So he could be taken back to Asgard. That was his plan all along. He never cared about conquering Earth. He never cared about defeating the Avengers. He just wanted a ride back to his home, the place he DOES want to conquer. And he got it, first class accommodations right back to Asgard. You can even see the smirk at the end when he’s got the gag on. It’s in his eyes. He won, and the heroes all thought they did. What better than to beat your enemies and make them think they won?

Now you may ask why Loki would betray Thanos in such a way. I mean, Big Purple is no one to mess around with. But I think Thanos was the co-architect of this plan. Why? Because he wants Loki back in Asgard too. Just sending him back wouldn’t work – Loki has to be brought back by Thor so that 0din does not suspect he’s still working with Thanos. See, with Loki back in Asgard, and knowing that 0din feels incredibly guilty about Loki in general and usually lets him off with little more than a slap to the wrist, Thanos has the perfect operative within striking distance of the one thing in the whole universe he REALLY wants (well, more than Death).

What is it Thanos wants? Did you miss it when you saw Thor? It’s easy to miss, but…

http://sciencefiction.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Infinity-Gauntlet-Thor.jpg

That’s right…in 0din's vault is none other than the Infinity Gauntlet. And now Loki is right there, and he broke into it before without much trouble. Loki losing to the Avengers was the best possible outcome for both Loki, who can now try to take over Asgard again, and Thanos, who now has potential access to the Infinity Gauntlet.

The bad guys won this round, and meanwhile the heroes are off eating Shwarma and thinking they won.

And all of this points to one thing – Joss Whedon is a fucking genius. This is Machiavellian planning at its best, and the payoff clearly won’t come until at least Thor 2 or Avengers 2. It’s a perfect set up, and with luck we’ll eventually see that the “win” in the Avengers was actually a loss. Of course, that’s not to say the heroes didn’t really win anything. They did…because while the battle was nothing more than an elaborate smoke and mirrors to get Loki back to Asgard, the formation of the Avengers is actually the biggest win for the side of good you could hope for.

It’s all about the long game, and writers who understand and can use it.

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
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:eek::eek::eek::eek:


Damn! i never thought about it like that, but when broken down, it seems so obvious.


don't know if this is "true" or not, but either way it's brilliant. Only question is why hasn't Loki already just taken the Infinity Gauntlet for himself and use it to take over Asgard. Maybe the gems aren't in it or something.. :dunno:
 
First, let’s get some background on Loki, God of Mischief and Lies. Check out that title – he’s the god of lies. Now in both the Marvel cinematic and comic book universes, being a “god” doesn’t really make you the embodiment of whatever you’re the god of; the comic book universe DOES have those things (Death, Eternity, Aeon, etc.) and the cinematic universe may gain those things (based on the Thanos cameo), but generally Thor is not the embodiment of thunder, and Hercules isn’t the embodiment of strength, etc. It’s just what they’re really good at, because they are actually alien beings from another dimension. Loki, then, is not the embodiment of lies and mischief, but he’s really good at it.

Danm finally somebody explained this shit to me. because if you really are a god of something no way in hell can a mortal kick your ass. i was always confused by this.


as far as the lokis plan goes shit is ill. i kinda figured out that there was more to the plan. but i have one question. why didnt he just went with thor? when thor asked him to go back on the mountain?
 
I personally don't see how they could script a Thanos/ infinity gauntlet story without changing the origin and powers of the gauntlet. Plus the gauntlet in the picture already has the soul gems attached.In the books when thanos got the Gauntlet he basically kills EVERYONE. All the heroes and before people start that Hulk and Thor can't be beat bullshit, He killed them very easily. He also killed the Gods as well as the Deities of the universe Eternity, Living Tribunal and others. They would have to water the Infinity Gauntlet down. The only way Thanos lost Is he beat himself.
 
Danm finally somebody explained this shit to me. because if you really are a god of something no way in hell can a mortal kick your ass. i was always confused by this.


as far as the lokis plan goes shit is ill. i kinda figured out that there was more to the plan. but i have one question. why didnt he just went with thor? when thor asked him to go back on the mountain?

If I recall, they were talking and Iron Man came in pissed at Thor snatching up his brother.
 
Danm finally somebody explained this shit to me. because if you really are a god of something no way in hell can a mortal kick your ass. i was always confused by this.


as far as the lokis plan goes shit is ill. i kinda figured out that there was more to the plan. but i have one question. why didnt he just went with thor? when thor asked him to go back on the mountain?

Thor could'nt take him back because he did'nt have the tesaract. Loki told him he sent it off and did'nt know where it was...Thor grabbed his hammer and was bout ta bust Loki head to the white meat when Iron Man hit Thor wit that flyin clothesline/sack move.
 
the avengers would of been so much better if norman osborn was the main villian.... loki is wack in the comics and didnt no anything to impress me in the movie at all
 
:hmm:

Not really sure about all that. Seems like some wishful stretching to me..but hell you never know!
 
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Thor could'nt take him back because he did'nt have the tesaract. Loki told him he sent it off and did'nt know where it was...Thor grabbed his hammer and was bout ta bust Loki head to the white meat when Iron Man hit Thor wit that flyin clothesline/sack move.

If I recall, they were talking and Iron Man came in pissed at Thor snatching up his brother.

:yes::cool:
 
the avengers would of been so much better if norman osborn was the main villian.... loki is wack in the comics and didnt no anything to impress me in the movie at all

To me Loki is more like Lex Luthor in God form. He's smart as fuck!
 
duh.

Loki wants Asgard and Thanos gets the opportunity to meet death.

Thanos wants Death to LOVE and worship HIM......He has defeated just about everything there is to defeat in his life but always subconsciously provides his "enemies" with a way to win............always.
 
the avengers would of been so much better if norman osborn was the main villian.... loki is wack in the comics and didnt no anything to impress me in the movie at all

Norman Osborn ?????? This isn't a Spider-Man movie
 
Thanos wants Death to LOVE and worship HIM......He has defeated just about everything there is to defeat in his life but always subconsciously provides his "enemies" with a way to win............always.

Thats why him pairing with Loki is the perfect match. They are lovable losers. I dont think Loki even wants to be king, I think he just likes pretending he does. Hes a sensitive thug who needs a hug.

But Thanos is a habitual line steppa. Hes so good he has a lost built in just incase he goes overboard with the destruction.
 
Great breakdown. Kind of like what happened in the Avengers cartoon with Loki.

One thing though, that cannot be the real infinity Gauntlet in 0dins vault, cause the real one is left handed. With the left hand being the sinister hand get it?

Oh and they better do a good job with Thanos. i'd like to also see AIM and Hydra so I can see Stark cracking jokes about MODOCK. :lol::lol:
 
Thor could'nt take him back because he did'nt have the tesaract. Loki told him he sent it off and did'nt know where it was...Thor grabbed his hammer and was bout ta bust Loki head to the white meat when Iron Man hit Thor wit that flyin clothesline/sack move.

:lol::lol::lol:

man you always sat some funny shit
 
I dont think that Loki is playing chess like a grandmaster and looking twenty moves ahead but he is a person who can quickly adjust his moves for the situation - He wanted to rule Midgard as his stepping stone to ruling Asgard - he wants to rule the 9 realms - When pointed out that Midgard will be a crumbled ruin - he thought the invasion would be more like Germany moving into France than moving into Russia, with the Migardians coming over with roses and bowing down.

So when his plan failed, he begins to adjust and make new plans - when you are Eternal you have a long time to plan shit.
 
I dont think that Loki is playing chess like a grandmaster and looking twenty moves ahead but he is a person who can quickly adjust his moves for the situation - He wanted to rule Midgard as his stepping stone to ruling Asgard - he wants to rule the 9 realms - When pointed out that Midgard will be a crumbled ruin - he thought the invasion would be more like Germany moving into France than moving into Russia, with the Migardians coming over with roses and bowing down.

So when his plan failed, he begins to adjust and make new plans - when you are Eternal you have a long time to plan shit.

Loki's plan was to get back to Asgard. Loki has issues that wont be resolved until hes king, and thats never going to happen.

Thanos knows hes king of this shit but he figured out a long time ago wrecking shit leaves him with no one to play with.

In the end these guys are no different than the DC comics, they refuse to prove their superiority. Or they want you to buy the next issue.
 
Doubt it.

The cube is too powerful to be just an expendable chess piece. Even if its for the IG.

With the cube in hand, Thanos could waltz into Asguard and take the IG without any trouble.

Thanos sacrificed the mind gem to make a play for the cube, IMHO, it was the right play cause its worth it.

Loki is a failure and always will be. Maybe Thanos didnt know.
 
the avengers would of been so much better if norman osborn was the main villian.... loki is wack in the comics and didnt no anything to impress me in the movie at all

:hmm:


You must be a youngin...


:hmm:

No really sure about all this seems like some wishingful stretching to me..but hell you never know!

The man knows his screenwriting and his comics so I have faith in him. I never liked Buffy or Angel but those verses are so dense with lore its incredible.

Seeing as how he connected every layer in both Iron Man movies and The Hulk and Thor and Captain America into a single thread of purpose for The Avengers... thats not as far fetched as it may seem.

Seeing how he structured Serenity and tied up all the loose threads from Firefly with comics and a one shot film, you never know what his main thinking was but hes good at putting that shit together.


Thor could'nt take him back because he did'nt have the tesaract. Loki told him he sent it off and did'nt know where it was...Thor grabbed his hammer and was bout ta bust Loki head to the white meat when Iron Man hit Thor wit that flyin clothesline/sack move.

True dat fam.

I think people missed that point and especially when talking about the plot for the film - aliens taking over the Earth and such and why Loki would give two fucks about us to begin with.



This article puts shit into stupid terms for the rest of us. Shit is VERY obvious now when you look back at the flick but still...



:dance::dance::dance:

oNE
 
:hmm:



The man knows his screenwriting and his comics so I have faith in him. I never liked Buffy or Angel but those verses are so dense with lore its incredible.

Seeing as how he connected every layer in both Iron Man movies and The Hulk and Thor and Captain America into a single thread of purpose for The Avengers... thats not as far fetched as it may seem.

Seeing how he structured Serenity and tied up all the loose threads from Firefly with comics and a one shot film, you never know what his main thinking was but hes good at putting that shit together.


:dance::dance::dance:

oNE

Hows the saying go "the best laid plans of mice and men often go astray"?

That's a hell of alot of contingency plans(within plans) ultimately to get back home.

I also find it ironic that the popular opinion is: loki wants an audience he wants to rule BUT it would appear only Asgard? I've never seen that kind of ambition limited to just one place...but hey!
 
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