Basketball Heads: Who do you choose Harden or Ibaka and teams trap in the new CBA

[killa kadafi191]

This is the albatross around the neck of the franchise i said it would be when they made this ridiculous deal. The trade was questionable as Perk was always a poor fit, but the contract was flat out horrendous, especially considering Bostons last official offer was 4years for 22million (though rumors were of 4yrs for 30million).

OKC has two options= 1) Let Harden walk. Keep Serge, and replace Harden with low cost offensive minded players (Jeff Green can get a minimum deal to come back if his health allows). 2) Amnesty Perk and hope James and Ibaka will take deals similar to the one they gave Perk.

You did say it I remember and you have turn out to be right.

As for your options that seems to be the case. Problem is this if they amnesty Perkins there is no guaranteed that one let alone both will take reduce deals. They could end up losing all three taking that route. I think the first option might be the realistic option. Problem will be is Harden just won sixth man of the year and is killing it in the playoffs. His value and popularity is through the roof. Will OKC be able to make the hard decision and let him go?

 

[Ill Paragraph]

Peace,

I keep telling cats that OKC won't be able to keep either one. Teams will offer close to max money for BOTH players. I doubt either one will choose to take less money to play third option in Oklahoma.

 

[daman200]

I don't see the nets getting harden. I think harden like his situation in Okc.

 

[curryshotta]

You did say it I remember and you have turn out to be right.

As for your options that seems to be the case. Problem is this if they amnesty Perkins there is no guaranteed that one let alone both will take reduce deals. They could end up losing all three taking that route. I think the first option might be the realistic option. Problem will be is Harden just won sixth man of the year and is killing it in the playoffs. His value and popularity is through the roof. Will OKC be able to make the hard decision and let him go?

its not just his scoring either. His playmaking ability with that second unit is exemplary.

He also has better shot selection than either westbrook or durant

 

[THE DRIZZY]

Harden needs to get his paper, fuck loyalty.

 

[FJP]

Lol @ this dude talking about the NBA needs this. The NBA became a global phenomenon from 80-95 when only 5 teams won every title.

 

[D-TOWN REP]

I like the idea of cutting Perkins and keeping both

But if I'm Harden im not taking significantly less than I can get from antother team

Dude is 22 years old and alread this good he will be an all star player

They gotta keep Ibaka though if they MUST choose between the two

I'd take my chances on finding antoher swingman before I take my chances on finding another quality big

 

[D-TOWN REP]

Lol @ this dude talking about the NBA needs this. The NBA became a global phenomenon from 80-95 when only 5 teams won every title.

Right

There has NEVER been parity in the NBA

They are fucking shit up with this new CBA

 

[Amajorfucup]

Problem is this if they amnesty Perkins there is no guaranteed that one let alone both will take reduce deals. They could end up losing all three taking that route. I think the first option might be the realistic option... Will OKC be able to make the hard decision and let him go?

I honestly dont think the market will be one which will call for these guys to take huge cuts in order to stay with OKC in the event that OKC can offer both deals similar to what Perk got 2yrs ago.

Also...the more i think about it, the more i think Ibaka may be the one to go if they have to make a decision based on current roster makeup. Harden essentially allows for Perkins presence on the court. The team is virtually in a 4 on 5 situation whenever Perk is on the court. He is that worthless. Harden comes in and makes up that difference with his production and efficiency. Sort of a counterbalance, the anti-Perk. I just dont think the team can afford to have a situation where Ibaka and Perk exist with no offensive force coming in against second unit.

Peace,

I keep telling cats that OKC won't be able to keep either one. Teams will offer close to max money for BOTH players. I doubt either one will choose to take less money to play third option in Oklahoma.

Nobody is maxing either of these guys.

 

[Dota]

The sad truth but parity is the only thing that will save the NBA in my opinion. I mean think about it, more teams contending draws more casual fan interest. That's why the MLB added a extra wild card. The most common reason that most casual fans don't watch the NBA is because they don't care to see the same teams winning all the time. What's the fun of reading a book if you already know the ending? Hardcore fans loved the Celtics-Lakers rivalry but I would've hated it. Glad I wasn't born then.

So you can honestly say you saw the Mavericks coming out the west and winning the NBA title last year? MLB added a extra wild card but guess what...the top playoff teams have the highest payrolls (no parity there). What do you consider the "common casual fan"? The NBA, of all sports leagues in the USA, is easily the most global sports league. Fans from South America, China, and Europe will continue to grow as more international players are on teams. And since you wasn't alive during the Celtics-Lakers I'll tell you straight up, that was some of the best basketball EVER played. Even as today's players get bigger, stronger, and faster the league has made it watered down by making the game more "pussified".

I mean I have always said that I would love to see parity in the NBA in which most folks replied saying parity won't work in the NBA. Well if that is true than the NBA will never evolve as a spectator sport. The intrigue of the Lakers and Celtics is almost gone. Magic aint walking through that door and neither is Bird.


Kobe is near retirement, and honestly who outside of LA will want to watch a Lakers team without Kobe? The NBA doesn't have that many stars and the stars that the NBA does have play on the same teams nowadays.

The Lakers are easily the most recognizable basketball franchise from a global standpoint. Attracting top tier free agents has NEVER been a problem for them. Yep, parity will really kill that shit I guess. Does the NBA really want its golden child to suffer for the sake of the Kings? When Magic retired due to his announcement, the exact same thing was said. Nobody gave a shit about the Sedale Threatt Lakers. That didn't stop them a few years later when they signed the top free agent, Shaq, and flipped Vladi Divac for a high school kid name Kobe (again great fucking GM). Think aboout this scenario with a Kobe retirement (lets say at the end of his 3 year extension)...in 3 years when Kobe's contract end, Kevin Love will be a free agent (since the Timberwolves refuse to franchise him). Now which sounds more attractive?...playing in the town he went to college in and for a franchise with a storied history or the fucking Timberwolves? Love/Bynum would put the team right back to contenders.

The NBA's high ratings last year I think were due to the rising of a new breed in the NBA. The Thunder, Heat, Grizzlies, Mavs winning again. This year the NBA has benefited from the Clippers, Knicks, and even the Nuggets in the early going and now in the playoffs, giving the fans something to talk about and be exited about.

So Lebron going to South Beach has nothing to do with people wanting to watch the Heat? Hell they even had and entire ESPN page dedicated to every fuckin game they played. It doesn't hurt to watch OKC when they have two 1st All-NBA players on the same team. Then when you mention the Clippers and Knicks guess what, stars combined (No fucking parity). So what would the Clippers be if David Stern never fucked the Lakers over in that trade? You mentioned the Nuggets, guess what...they'll never win a ship with their type of roster. So ratings are based on what? STARS...fuck parity.

The NBA needs parity and all y'all old nostalgic folks need to adopt and accept it. Seriously, do you think that the Heat and Thunder would be acceptable to watch year after year?

Um if the Lakers/Celtics were acceptable for the entire 80s, Bulls 90s, and Spurs/Lakers 00s then I don't see no problem with the Heat/Thunder year after year. Shit I just consider that great GMs.

 

[ScottyPiffen745]

I'd go with the amnesty Perkins, keep both option.

 

[2 ONE 3]

Keep Air Congo.


You know how hard / rare it is to find a big man with a decent mid rage game these days.


Harden is a dime a dozen.
​

 

[2 ONE 3]

I like the idea of cutting Perkins and keeping both

But if I'm Harden im not taking significantly less than I can get from antother team

Dude is 22 years old and alread this good he will be an all star player

They gotta keep Ibaka though if they MUST choose between the two

I'd take my chances on finding antoher swingman before I take my chances on finding another quality big

​

 

[ScottyPiffen745]

I know this thread is about OKC, but I gotta ask - what can the Bulls do?

I know we can amnesty Boozer, but I don't see that happening yet (at least not until his last year).

They might make up the trade to get Howard, but I don't want that to happen. I'd rather we have depth. Plus I'd like us to keep the core of Rose-Deng-Noah and Gibson, they're my only untouchables. Brewer will probably be axed.

Ideally:

I want us to pick up either Ray Allen or Eric Gordon (even though I doubt NOH would let Gordon walk away) for our 2 and move Rip to the bench. I like Harden too, but he might opt for more money elsewhere if OKC doesn't keep him.

Then Mayo to fill-in for Rose until he recovers, and then have him on our bench.

And lastly, get us a strong big man for our bench for cheap, no one special, maybe like Ivan Johnson or Etan Thomas, someone to fill that Kurt Thomas role we missed this year.

Is there any possibility that this can happen and what would they have to do to make that happen?

I mean, that shit would be nice:

Rose
Allen or Gordon
Deng
----- (in case we'd might have amnesty Boozer, then it'd be Gibson starting)
Noah

Mayo
Rip
Korver (I think we'd keep him)
Gibson
---- (I'm not sure if we'd keep Asik)

Thomas or Johnson or a strong big man
Butler
Scalabrine
---- (not sure if we could keep CJ and Lucas)

I don't know how exceptions and taxes and shit work with the salary cap so I don't know if this is realistic or not. But if dropping Boozer can make this happen, damn it I say go for it. Drop Boozer and put a bid in for Gordon.

 

[killa kadafi191]

I know this thread is about OKC, but I gotta ask - what can the Bulls do?

I know we can amnesty Boozer, but I don't see that happening yet (at least not until his last year).

They might make up the trade to get Howard, but I don't want that to happen. I'd rather we have depth. Plus I'd like us to keep the core of Rose-Deng-Noah and Gibson, they're my only untouchables. Brewer will probably be axed.

Ideally:

I want us to pick up either Ray Allen or Eric Gordon (even though I doubt NOH would let Gordon walk away) for our 2 and move Rip to the bench. I like Harden too, but he might opt for more money elsewhere if OKC doesn't keep him.

Then Mayo to fill-in for Rose until he recovers, and then have him on our bench.

And lastly, get us a strong big man for our bench for cheap, no one special, maybe like Ivan Johnson or Etan Thomas, someone to fill that Kurt Thomas role we missed this year.

Is there any possibility that this can happen and what would they have to do to make that happen?

I mean, that shit would be nice:

Rose
Allen or Gordon
Deng
----- (in case we'd might have amnesty Boozer, then it'd be Gibson starting)
Noah

Mayo
Rip
Korver (I think we'd keep him)
Gibson
---- (I'm not sure if we'd keep Asik)

Thomas or Johnson or a strong big man
Butler
Scalabrine
---- (not sure if we could keep CJ and Lucas)

I don't know how exceptions and taxes and shit work with the salary cap so I don't know if this is realistic or not. But if dropping Boozer can make this happen, damn it I say go for it. Drop Boozer and put a bid in for Gordon.

The problem with the Bulls situation is even if they amnesty Boozer they will still have to pay him. This is something the Bulls owner is not a fan of. No sir. Problem with the Bulls is the same with OKC they will be entering the first year of Rose new contract.

With Deng Boozer Noah now along with Rose their cap situation is messed up.

Chicago Bulls

Right now the Bulls are tax payers in 2012-13, sitting on $76.0 million to 10 players. The 29th pick in the draft will add about a million and tack on a minimum salary cap hold. They can use the mini-MLE, but it will cost them $6 million to do so with the tax. They can lower their obligations significantly if they waive Kyle Korver, Ronnie Brewer and C.J. Watson (the latter two by July 10th). They will pay just $500,000 to Korver instead of a combined $12.6 million. However, considering how good the Bulls were this past year, does it make sense to waive those players? They would still be over the cap so they would be limited to exception money (MLE and BAE) plus minimum salary deals to replace that trio. It’s unlikely that would make the team better. Amnesty is still an option for the Bulls.

Problem is this the Bulls owner is not a fan of spending money when he doesn't have to.

Mayo will likely command more than what the Bulls can offer.

Bulls have a few options.

1. Dwight Howard. Orlando VP and Owner both said if Dwight doesn't sign an extension they will trade him. Thing is two days ago it was reported Dwight isn't a fan of joining the Bulls. The Bulls can offer a damn good package but they never like the idea of Dwight leaving if he doesn't like it.

2. Vets. The Bulls will now have to depend on veterans who are willing to take veteran minimum to join their team.

In all honesty I see this happening. The Bulls make minor improvements. They will try to see if they can make a trade for Howard if not they will just go into the next season with the same roster with the claim that the team will hold everything down until Rose is healthy.

 

[M.H.C.]

Lol @ this dude talking about the NBA needs this. The NBA became a global phenomenon from 80-95 when only 5 teams won every title.

Right

There has NEVER been parity in the NBA

They are fucking shit up with this new CBA

Again, everybody knows that the NBA has never had parity but it became a global phenomenon because of the way the game was played and the players who played at that time. There is no Bird/Magic rivalry in today's game and with the way the game is played today the lack of parity sure doesn't help the leauge. The NBA as a product is shit.

 

[killa kadafi191]

Again, everybody knows that the NBA has never had parity but it became a global phenomenon because of the way the game was played and the players who played at that time. There is no Bird/Magic rivalry in today's game and with the way the game is played today the lack of parity sure doesn't help the leauge. The NBA as a product is shit.

As always MHC I see your point.

You are right there is no Magic and Bird rivalry in the NBA but then again that was a one in a life time rivalries. Bird had white people who usually didn't care about the NBA all of a sudden watching it. Stern has admitted that after Magic Bird and MJ many white viewers and fans left the game. Especially during what the NBA media calls "The Bling Era" which is why we saw the NBA try to cater to regain those fans. Commercials having NBA players dancing to Elvis songs and other bullshit.

The NBA try to manufacture new rivalries. CP3 vs Deron. Kobe vs VC, Kobe vs T-mac, Kobe vs Wade and their latest fail Kobe vs Lebron which went full force and still failed.

Parity doesn't = dollars for the NBA. I remember some of the worst ratings the NBA finals received were during the Spurs championship runs. Remember the Spurs vs Pistons championship. You had a seven game series. Last second shots and so much drama yet no one care to watch.

Though I feel we will receive a different results if we see OKC in the Finals.

I see your point though

 

[ScottyPiffen745]

The problem with the Bulls situation is even if they amnesty Boozer they will still have to pay him. This is something the Bulls owner is not a fan of. No sir. Problem with the Bulls is the same with OKC they will be entering the first year of Rose new contract.

With Deng Boozer Noah now along with Rose their cap situation is messed up.



Problem is this the Bulls owner is not a fan of spending money when he doesn't have to.

Mayo will likely command more than what the Bulls can offer.

Bulls have a few options.

1. Dwight Howard. Orlando VP and Owner both said if Dwight doesn't sign an extension they will trade him. Thing is two days ago it was reported Dwight isn't a fan of joining the Bulls. The Bulls can offer a damn good package but they never like the idea of Dwight leaving if he doesn't like it.

2. Vets. The Bulls will now have to depend on veterans who are willing to take veteran minimum to join their team.

In all honesty I see this happening. The Bulls make minor improvements. They will try to see if they can make a trade for Howard if not they will just go into the next season with the same roster with the claim that the team will hold everything down until Rose is healthy.

Yeah I forgot to ask about the vets. But I agree, Forman's not going to want to pay Boozer to play somewhere else. I just got that little twinge of hope that he'll change his mind because Boozer seems content with just having a good season.

But I can see us dropping a couple players and replacing them with some vets. I'm hoping we can at least get Allen.

 

[M.H.C.]

To answer the question, I would keep Ibaka but I feel they shouldn't have to choose. I'm not down with this new CBA and the pressures it will put on teams. That's not how you achieve parity or strengthen a brand imo.

 

[curryshotta]

Keep Air Congo.


You know how hard / rare it is to find a big man with a decent mid rage game these days.


Harden is a dime a dozen.
​

HA. Really?

A slasher, decent jumpshooter, great FT shooter, pick and roll monster is a dime a dozen?

Ibaka is a good shotblocker who they have to back up with Collison because he is a mediocre defender who cant be trusted to adequately guard top/mid tier power forwards.

 

[unknownsoldier]

Honestly, when Cuban said all star break that it may be best to not pursue D.Will or DH12 & with the CBA it makes sense to pursue big names in '13 or '14, I felt he had his eyes up north waiting to see what would happen with those guys. Both will be 25 & a great building piece.

People are mesmerized by the block totals for Ibaka when really he is currently a mediocre defender.

Dirk proves that all the time

Right

There has NEVER been parity in the NBA

They are fucking shit up with this new CBA

To answer the question, I would keep Ibaka but I feel they shouldn't have to choose. I'm not down with this new CBA and the pressures it will put on teams. That's not how you achieve parity or strengthen a brand imo.

That CBA fucked the game up for real...like Cuban said, he should've fought it harder.

 

[killa kadafi191]

Honestly, when Cuban said all star break that it may be best to not pursue D.Will or DH12 & with the CBA it makes sense to pursue big names in '13 or '14, I felt he had his eyes up north waiting to see what would happen with those guys. Both will be 25 & a great building piece.




Dirk proves that all the time







That CBA fucked the game up for real...like Cuban said, he should've fought it harder.

Makes sense I saw Cuban comments this week too. Saying they will wait and see. He could eventually throw money at both of them the way the Mavericks cap situation is.

Cuban and other owners felt they should have fought harder but cuban already said six years from now he and other owners will vote to have this deal voided

To answer the question, I would keep Ibaka but I feel they shouldn't have to choose. I'm not down with this new CBA and the pressures it will put on teams. That's not how you achieve parity or strengthen a brand imo.

exactly

Yeah I forgot to ask about the vets. But I agree, Forman's not going to want to pay Boozer to play somewhere else. I just got that little twinge of hope that he'll change his mind because Boozer seems content with just having a good season.

But I can see us dropping a couple players and replacing them with some vets. I'm hoping we can at least get Allen.

I think the more fans speak up the likely they could do it.

 

[shaddyvillethug]

Bump a year later

 

[BDR]

Keep Air Congo.


You know how hard / rare it is to find a big man with a decent mid rage game these days.


Harden is a dime a dozen.
​

Look at this dumb ass nigga's post

This is exactly why the clippers lost in the first round...

 

[curryshotta]

hahahaha BDR trolling

And you know why OKC shouldnt complain about small markets. They left Seattle and CHOSE TO MOVE TO OKLAHOMA.

how you choose where to move and then bitch about it

 

[D-TOWN REP]

hahahaha BDR trolling

And you know why OKC shouldnt complain about small markets. They left Seattle and CHOSE TO MOVE TO OKLAHOMA.

how you choose where to move and then bitch about it

Them being in OKC or Seattle would not have made a difference at all

Still not a large NBA market

 

[jasonblacc]

should have choose harden

 

[curryshotta]

Them being in OKC or Seattle would not have made a difference at all

Still not a large NBA market

fair enough

but still you cant feel too bad for small markets. They were the ones who fucked over themselves by fighting for this new CBA

lost in all of this too is that Miami is not a large market. Only thing they have going for them against big markets is weather and Pat Riley

 

[curryshotta]

HA. Really?

A slasher, decent jumpshooter, great FT shooter, pick and roll monster is a dime a dozen?

Ibaka is a good shotblocker who they have to back up with Collison because he is a mediocre defender who cant be trusted to adequately guard top/mid tier power forwards.

man this curry dude knows what he is talking about

 

[D-TOWN REP]

fair enough

but still you cant feel too bad for small markets. They were the ones who fucked over themselves by fighting for this new CBA

lost in all of this too is that Miami is not a large market. Only thing they have going for them against big markets is weather and Pat Riley

I don't feel bad at all for them

They agreed to the CBA

My teams owner hated it but I guess he didn't want to be the one holding everything up so he signed it

Mavs paid more tax dollars than ANY TEAM and now Mr Luxury tax himself shook to go over the cap

The new CBA sucks and I know deep inside the owners of most of the smallmarkeys knew they would never compete so they at least wanted to save some money

They still ain't getting superstars and if they draft somebody too good they will eventually lose them too

 

[2 ONE 3]

Look at this dumb ass nigga's post

This is exactly why the clippers lost in the first round...

You still a bitch tho

Lac gang faggit


If Westbrook didn't go down this series wouldn't be 3-1

Go suck a dick

 

[Amajorfucup]

This is the albatross around the neck of the franchise i said it would be when they made this ridiculous deal. The trade was questionable as Perk was always a poor fit, but the contract was flat out horrendous, especially considering Bostons last official offer was 4years for 22million (though rumors were of 4yrs for 30million).

OKC has two options= 1) Let Harden walk. Keep Serge, and replace Harden with low cost offensive minded players (Jeff Green can get a minimum deal to come back if his health allows). 2) Amnesty Perk and hope James and Ibaka will take deals similar to the one they gave Perk.

I honestly dont think the market will be one which will call for these guys to take huge cuts in order to stay with OKC in the event that OKC can offer both deals similar to what Perk got 2yrs ago.

Also...the more i think about it, the more i think Ibaka may be the one to go if they have to make a decision based on current roster makeup. Harden essentially allows for Perkins presence on the court. The team is virtually in a 4 on 5 situation whenever Perk is on the court. He is that worthless. Harden comes in and makes up that difference with his production and efficiency. Sort of a counterbalance, the anti-Perk. I just dont think the team can afford to have a situation where Ibaka and Perk exist with no offensive force coming in against second unit.

 

[curryshotta]

I don't feel bad at all for them

They agreed to the CBA

My teams owner hated it but I guess he didn't want to be the one holding everything up so he signed it

Mavs paid more tax dollars than ANY TEAM and now Mr Luxury tax himself shook to go over the cap

The new CBA sucks and I know deep inside the owners of most of the smallmarkeys knew they would never compete so they at least wanted to save some money

They still ain't getting superstars and if they draft somebody too good they will eventually lose them too

last lockout was small market vs large market

which they conveniently managed to spin as greedy players(Billy Hunter is a joke )

Truth is if you really want to compete in the NBA your GM is going to have to be on his game selecting the right players for the coach and system they want to run

But GM's rarely have to answer for their mistakes until they get canned

 

[BDR]

You still a bitch tho

Lac gang faggit


If Westbrook didn't go down this series wouldn't be 3-1

Go suck a dick

You soft baked wave wearing homo

I'd punch you in your bitch ass mouth

Stop yappin that tough shit from 3000 miles away

 

[2 ONE 3]

You soft baked wave wearing homo

I'd punch you in your bitch ass mouth

Stop yappin that tough shit from 3000 miles away

Womp womp


You ain't punchin shit but a clock you tug boat small hands 5 foot nothing old ass foreign ass fat fuck.

Ol Mr. Cee ass nigga