How was "Space" created before the Universe
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Biology is actually one of my strongest sciences as well... Those statements weren't to be grandiose declarative statements or meant to derail the thread... I don't want to argue science or religion... imo It always comes back to belief... the scientist when discovered to be wrong argues that it is merely a study.... and the church when discovered to be wrong argues that god works in mysterious ways... both have their use and will swear they unilaterally corner the market on truth... but both require leaps of faith...
Did my post fly over your head or I am reading yours wrong/your post flying over my head?
I think I agree with you, lol. Math is a language of the entire universe and all dimensions. Remember the biggest difference between mathematics and physics is that physical meanings are NOT applied to the variables in equations.
The biggest problem with physics is that we can not accurately measure A LOT of things in the physical universe. So all mathematics can do is interpret a physical explanation numerically, but because physics is chaotic the numerical error of any equation grows over time. This would mean inaccurate results.
Every mathematical model that is constructed to try to explain astronomical events (Big Bang) or Earthly events (weather) is flawed. There is no perfect model because the physical world is not perfect and too chaotic. Plus absolutely NO mathematical model can be successful without some sort of initial or forcing condition. A mathematical/numerical model of the big bang would need a forcing condition to calculate the equations. The model would also be limited to boundaries suggesting that the universe is finite. In order for these physical equations to be calculated you would need a time step as well, which is also know as integration time stepping. In other words, the time between each calculations. Since the Big Bang did not have constant time during its early stages then no mathematical model can adequately describe the true events of the big bang.
I attended a physics conference back in September 2011 in Austin, TX and the astronomy was in the category. I was in the Atmospheric science category. Meteorology and Astronomy uses the same basic law of physic using math to explain (or map as you say) the phenomena. But Astronomers were baffled on how the physics they use to explain the universe do not apply to the physics that is on Earth.
So after type all of this. I do agree with your statements that we lack the mathematical vocab because we yet do not understand the physical (or can not measure the physical).
Plus technology is a huge factor in all this. I have worked with some very power computers (NOAA's jet super computer in Boulder, CO). Even these computers can not handle the complex calculations. Humans spent thousands of years forming physics equations. We are now just coming to an age to where they can be tested.
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This
If these ancients new anything about medicine, do you know how populated the earth would be now? Look at the advancements made in the last couple hundred years and the population increase and lifespan increase.
We are not in the stone age compared to any KNOWN people in the past. We do know that these KNOWN people at a life expectancy of about 30 from birth. If they had such superior knowledge, the first thing they would have fixed was that.
It's a lot easier to look up at the sky and map shit out than it is to come up with medical knowledge. I'd rather be tasked with looking up at the sky than having to attempt a heart transplant.
Cats don't even appreciate their own time period.
We live in a period where they put new kidneys in a cat and he played in the NBA. He would have been dead as fuck in any KNOWN ancient culture. Now that is some amazing shit.
If these ancients new anything about medicine, do you know how populated the earth would be now? Look at the advancements made in the last couple hundred years and the population increase and lifespan increase.
We are not in the stone age compared to any KNOWN people in the past. We do know that these KNOWN people at a life expectancy of about 30 from birth. If they had such superior knowledge, the first thing they would have fixed was that.
It's a lot easier to look up at the sky and map shit out than it is to come up with medical knowledge. I'd rather be tasked with looking up at the sky than having to attempt a heart transplant.
Cats don't even appreciate their own time period.
c/s
Ancients did not have the technology we have today. So in essence they had to use what worked for them at the time. They had to learn quicker because death came early for them.
Interesting times and the next few decades should see tranformative progress in applied science because of the increasingly cheap access to powerful supercomputers that are seeing unprecedented compounded growth in processing power.
Indeed! The supercomputer I get to work with has GPU processing now. This enables more powerful computing for a much cheaper expense. Once that transformative process ends in the applied science, then we can begin to theorize again just like scientist did before technological advances.
Or even better we can create artificial intelligence that will be able to solve what we can not solve about the universe. How interesting would that be? I am more inclined to believe that artificial intelligence will be the front runner for the ultimate physicist and mathematician.
Their lack of medical knowledge would hamper their scientific knowledge. If half your population dies before 16, how many great minds are lost?
If these ancients new anything about medicine, do you know how populated the earth would be now? Look at the advancements made in the last couple hundred years and the population increase and lifespan increase.
We are not in the stone age compared to any KNOWN people in the past. We do know that these KNOWN people at a life expectancy of about 30 from birth. If they had such superior knowledge, the first thing they would have fixed was that.
It's a lot easier to look up at the sky and map shit out than it is to come up with medical knowledge. I'd rather be tasked with looking up at the sky than having to attempt a heart transplant.
Cats don't even appreciate their own time period.
Yea I know that im not saying it was common knowledge. Its was not accessable to everyone. Even today that knowledge is not accessible to everyone. Their is people in certain parts of the world still dying because of lack of medicine. We are in the computer age and I bet 99% of the population cant tell you the difference between Java and Java Script, but in the future everyone will be looked at as the people who started the computer age not just the guys who actually started it. Every class has one teacher and many students. So you cant say because people were dying from desease that culture had no medical knowledge. Didnt African slaves introduce Europeans to vacines.
I do apprecciate my own time period. The point I was tring to make is that relgion and science together allowed people to make bigger gains in knowledge than just using one. I think some were down the line, the two were seperated.
In which case doesn't it come down to "reproducibility"?
Example #1: If someone prays for money:
1) If they get it, God delivered on said prays if not God didn't want to for some strange reason
Example #2
1) Tebow prays to God he wins the football game against his opponent. His opponent prays he wins against tebow
Example #3
1) Someone prays their son doesn't get in an accident and he does(God had his reason). Someone else prays their son doesn't get in an accident and he doesn't (God delivered on prayer)
Well gotdammit which is it? You may knock science all you or others want, but you can't argue with it reproducibility. I find it highly hypocritical of so many that mock science but yet embellish everyday by its methods and thinking.
On behalf of myself and others that spend hours in the lab "reproducing" science to allow you mutherfuckers to have an internet and so many other things...FUCK YOU!
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The Ancients did not know the physical world the way we know it today, but some of their mathematical skills, especially with out the aid of computers and virtual simulations was out of this world.
But no matter how fast of computer you can create or how big of a satellite telescope you can put in orbit, the same problem exist, how do you get all this stuff from nothing then there is the messy problem of trying to make heads and tails out of dealing with the infinitesimal and the infinite..
That problem will always exists, but at least we can take steps to come closer to an answer. Develop a better understanding of the physical universe. Maybe even discover extraterrestrial life.....
Earth can't be the only place with life. I don't believe we are that lucky.
Something happens in Haiti, and the world is coming to aid with modern medicine, food and other supplies. If something like that happened in the ancient world, others probably wouldn't even know about it for years -- if at all.
I am not saying that the ancients had no medical knowledge, I am simply saying it was primitive by today's standards. There life expectancies at birth reflected their limited knowledge.
Religion was the first science. The ancients and primitive man used it to explain things. It was important because life was so short and fragile back then. As science split from religion and was allowed to flourish on its own, we have advanced beyond any civilization that we KNOW of. 40 percent of scientists don't even believe in god. That is a lot when compared to the general population. And of the ones who believe in god, how many actually subscribe to religious dogma?
Scientists can spend 16 hours a day in the lab. In the past, they probably had to spend hours a day engaging in silly religious ceremonies. Not partaking in religious ceremonies could make you an outcast.
It is clear today that science is giving us knowledge and religion gives us nothing but ignorance in most cases. What's more productive? A scientist working on a vaccine in a medical lab or someone spending half the day in church? A religious leader saying things are this way because of some myth he invented, or a scientists trying to find out what really makes a heart beat?
Most "primitive"(no serious medical advances) cultures are very religious and/or spiritual. What culture that was science orientated was "primitive"? We are clearly living in the time of the closest thing humans have had to a scientific culture, and people are really benefiting.
Still haven't explored the ocean depths..............wondering about some space....
you've posted some insightful stuff. but god force, come on
man, is it "god" or science. what is god to you? why do you continue
to use that word knowing its intent in the world & on the world.
really, we dont have some of the technology they had!
they were building structures that were within 1/4 of an inch to be perfect
90 degree angles, aligning with stars out in the distant universe, that modern
science cant even do. egyptians were doing surgery also.
Take a piece of paper and draw a large circle on it.
Within that circle draw a smaller circle.
Name the smaller circle " our universe "
Name the space within the larger circle " other universe "
Name the space outside the larger circle " the creator's universe "
Write down in " our universe " " time = 1 sec ".
Write down in " other universe " time = 1 sec / x "
Write down in " the creator's universe " time = 1x sec / infinite # ".
There you have your simple explanation as to how we can yo exist, where our space came from and how come the creator could sit back and watch.
Because time in his universe isn't directly tied to ours.
A million years in our universe that he created could mean just 1 second in his.
Therefore the illusion that life in ours could go on forever.
Within that circle draw a smaller circle.
Name the smaller circle " our universe "
Name the space within the larger circle " other universe "
Name the space outside the larger circle " the creator's universe "
Write down in " our universe " " time = 1 sec ".
Write down in " other universe " time = 1 sec / x "
Write down in " the creator's universe " time = 1x sec / infinite # ".
There you have your simple explanation as to how we can yo exist, where our space came from and how come the creator could sit back and watch.
Because time in his universe isn't directly tied to ours.
A million years in our universe that he created could mean just 1 second in his.
Therefore the illusion that life in ours could go on forever.
We are learning things from termites and their building techniques.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/09/040922073338.htm
The KNOWN ancient world is overhyped. And I bet you wouldn't want an ancient Egyptian performing an emergency appendectomy on you. If childhood wasn't safe, how safe would post-op recovery be? That is if they could pull off the operation.
Sure the NATURAL sciences can reproduce results of rudimentary experiments and fundamental concepts... most of which any intelligent person can observe and deduce with some effort... but when it comes to cutting edge science and reproducing results in complex multi-level systems (as in macro and micro complexities) the reproductive argument is shaky... hell I can usually point out errors in the experimental process (poor control, poor reasoning in conclusion) so let's not get absurd here and pretend science is this strict measure of standards and a monolithic pure and ethical practice... much like religion it relies on the ethic and capabilities of the human(s) practicing it to be effective as it is designed to be... I hope I didn't lose you....
Is science and religion the same? Nope... apples and Oranges but they are both FRUIT... imo people act like science is steak and religion is wheatgrass lol
My Retort
Example 1:
Someone develops a statistical algorithm and/or computer model to predict volatility in the stock market (or any complex system)... they invest money with it then lose the money ... "science" blames unseen market forces, statistical anomalies and/or fluctuations
Example 2:
Based on lifetime performance data, weather, field conditions, etc Tim Tebow's coach calculates how many points are needed to beat their next opponent, with the same tools that opponent's coach calculates how many points they must prevent to beat Tim Tebow
Example 3:
Someone is told they have terminal cancer and have 6 months to live 10 years later they are still alive and well... someone goes in for a minor procedure and dies... "science" blames the hospital staff and doctor
Same illusion of infallibility I-M-O
Is science and religion the same? Nope... apples and Oranges but they are both FRUIT... imo people act like science is steak and religion is wheatgrass lol
My Retort
Example 1:
Someone develops a statistical algorithm and/or computer model to predict volatility in the stock market (or any complex system)... they invest money with it then lose the money ... "science" blames unseen market forces, statistical anomalies and/or fluctuations
Example 2:
Based on lifetime performance data, weather, field conditions, etc Tim Tebow's coach calculates how many points are needed to beat their next opponent, with the same tools that opponent's coach calculates how many points they must prevent to beat Tim Tebow
Example 3:
Someone is told they have terminal cancer and have 6 months to live 10 years later they are still alive and well... someone goes in for a minor procedure and dies... "science" blames the hospital staff and doctor
Same illusion of infallibility I-M-O
as to the termites article, i see no wrong in applying
technology to study. we should learn from the micro(in terms of us humans),
& apply it to the macro(or on a larger scale) for our use.
as to your comment, i underastand your sentiment. i FEEL differently.
the KNOWN ancient world just resonates with me, you should understand
why(im not stuck there though). it was the piece I was missing, i m getting off track.
i understand what you are saying though, im for the continual growth what
other choice is there.
I dont pretend to know what or who God is nor do I make up stories on God based on some agenda I may or may not have.. Instead I refer to God as the ultimate force of the universe or above, the force, power or energy that created something (all this stuff) from nothing....... When did it happen? Was it a trillion years prior to the big bang? Was it a trillion universes prior to the big bang, I dont know, but as long as we are dealing with a physical universe there had to be a beginning as well as a ending, and what ever is responsible for that had to have a force greater than any force known to mankind, something I call the God force....
H.A.N
Banned
As far as the ancintients their knowledge of mathmatics is just mind blowing.. I mean for them to come up with the fibernachi sequence, Phi and Pi, and so on is just mind blowing... Plus the whole flower of life and Metatron's Cube, as well as advanced Fractal Geometry is like...
But then again they dealt with mathematics in terms of its spiritual aspects, similar to music, and the way crystals, atoms and DNA are formulated.
Its a deep subject that warrants its own thread...
Something I promise to create when I have a lot of free time on my hands.
If these ancients new anything about medicine, do you know how populated the earth would be now? Look at the advancements made in the last couple hundred years and the population increase and lifespan increase.
Dumbass.
We are not in the stone age compared to any KNOWN people in the past. We do know that these KNOWN people at a life expectancy of about 30 from birth. If they had such superior knowledge, the first thing they would have fixed was that.
It's a lot easier to look up at the sky and map shit out than it is to come up with medical knowledge. I'd rather be tasked with looking up at the sky than having to attempt a heart transplant.
Cats don't even appreciate their own time period. We live in a period where they put new kidneys in a cat and he played in the NBA. He would have been dead as fuck in any KNOWN ancient culture. Now that is some amazing shit.
People worship the past and fantasize that it was do much better than it was. There's far more evidence that it was in fact, just as primitive as we think than evidence of aliens or some superior technology.
Worship and fantasy about what they supposedly had is a religion in itself.
Worship and fantasy about what they supposedly had is a religion in itself.
and you, my friend, are on the right track!
Lol Sean69 you must've enjoyed all this bullshit. And shook your head at the same time.
Dude I said the ancients were wiz at mathematics, and you bring up medicine.
Is this all the same to you?
H.A.N
Banned
Dude I said the ancients were wiz at mathematics, and you bring up medicine.
Is this all the same to you?
If they knew so much about math too why didnt they have computers, tv, video games (yes they had entertainment)
could you explain what you mean?
what is the relevance of this video clip??
and if one, after careful rational thought and research, finds the Big Bang Theory (BBT) to be seriously flawed and muddled with contradicting concepts, and completely naive. Then what?
oh, and anyone about to say that Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation is "evidence" supporting the BBT ... think first before you post that shit.
and if one, after careful rational thought and research, finds the Big Bang Theory (BBT) to be seriously flawed and muddled with contradicting concepts, and completely naive. Then what?
oh, and anyone about to say that Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation is "evidence" supporting the BBT ... think first before you post that shit.
I don't have a problem with that- I'd love to learn about it- at best, watch two learned people debate on it, and see what I think.
I just wasn't seeing any of that in THIS thread.
I saw a guy challenging it based on whatever he could google and referencing people who actually SUPPORTED the theory.
I tried to stay away from actually arguing on behalf of it, I'm feel qualified AT ALL. But I know when someones playing games with words and the search bar.
I also think the idea of it being "comletely naive" is a bit of a reach.
Sure the NATURAL sciences can reproduce results of rudimentary experiments and fundamental concepts...
most of which any intelligent person can observe and deduce with some effort...
Tell me, What rudimentary and or fundamental results does RELIGION reproduce that any intelligent person can observe and deduce?
when it comes to cutting edge science and reproducing results in complex multi-level systems (as in macro and micro complexities) the reproductive argument is shaky... hell I can usually point out errors in the experimental process (poor control, poor reasoning in conclusion) so let's not get absurd here and pretend science is this strict measure of standards and a monolithic pure and ethical practice...
I will submit to you that almost every "cutting edge science" in its infancy was "shaky" at best. Which in it self is part of the beauty of the discipline that we dare towards "cutting-edge" anything!
much like religion it relies on the ethic and capabilities of the human(s) practicing it to be effective as it is designed to be... I hope I didn't lose you....
Sure....
Is science and religion the same? Nope... apples and Oranges but they are both FRUIT... imo people act like science is steak and religion is wheatgrass lol
Curious, Just about everyone without even trying can list some of the things the discipline of science has provided the world! Tell me what meaningful anything has the "FRUIT" of religion provided the world it wouldn't have had without it?
My Retort
Example 1:
Someone develops a statistical algorithm and/or computer model to predict volatility in the stock market (or any complex system)... they invest money with it then lose the money ... "science" blames unseen market forces, statistical anomalies and/or fluctuations
Example 2:
Based on lifetime performance data, weather, field conditions, etc Tim Tebow's coach calculates how many points are needed to beat their next opponent, with the same tools that opponent's coach calculates how many points they must prevent to beat Tim Tebow
Example 3:
Someone is told they have terminal cancer and have 6 months to live 10 years later they are still alive and well... someone goes in for a minor procedure and dies... "science" blames the hospital staff and doctor
Same illusion of infallibility I-M-O
Oh the irony....STATISTICS you say? Do you really want to compare the STATS of something science predicts to that of religion? Further irony the majority of religious folks gladly take their odds with the science you mock than the ultimate "statistician" of the religion they claim!
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