How was "Space" created before the Universe

[Built4Life]

So I'm watching a documentary on the BigBang Theory and watch some simulation module that explains how the universe expanded rapidly. While watching this simulation I begin to wonder: didn't the "BigBang" begin in a preoccupied space. Wouldn't that chain reaction require some space for this large amount of energy to expand in?

The big bang theory only explains how this universe came into existence. We don't and may never be able to answer or even speculate about the cosmos.

It is mind boggling and our knowledge is very limited. The fact is that we may never know.

 

[Fuzzy_McNut]

You know what I call energy? ENERGY


Ans since you know, tell me how your Creator created the earth.Oh, you don't. Well, even if HE did, now you have to disprove the Big Bang after that, because there's lots of evidence for it.

And is it's possible in your OPEN mind that there is NO God that had to do that? IS it?

Why would I question it's morality if there is one? because that's important to me if someone thinks I should worship something. Or is your version of God required to be worshiped?

Honestly by your definition of God, you are trying to change so much of what men have been calling God, you should just use another word.

Creator? OK, then call it that. Call it Universe.

Energy? I call that ENERGY.

now this is where you sound silly and i will breakdown your illogic.

let's start with your question: tell me how your Creator created the earth.Oh, you don't.

if you want proof god exists and want me to prove it, then that's not the question you should be asking.

If i said "frank made a car" and you wanted me to prove it....i dont have to tell you how he made it to prove it.
I fucking drove in it...that's the proof....i dont have to offer a blueprint of how he made the dam car. I dont know how it was made but i know i'm in it........


I dont know how god created the universe either, but i'm in it. I got here somewhere. And the big bang....i dont have to argue that science disagrees with it.....i posted the video but i'll go more indepth if you didnt understand.

 

[Built4Life]

now this is where you sound silly and i will breakdown your illogic.

let's start with your question: tell me how your Creator created the earth.Oh, you don't.

if you want proof god exists and want me to prove it, then that's not the question you should be asking.

If i said "frank made a car" and you wanted me to prove it....i dont have to tell you how he made it to prove it.
I fucking drove in it...that's the proof....i dont have to offer a blueprint of how he made the dam car. I dont know how it was made but i know i'm in it........



I dont know how god created the universe either, but i'm in it. I got here somewhere. And the big bang....i dont have to argue that science disagrees with it.....i posted the video but i'll go more indepth if you didnt understand.

I didn't read all of your post but if you are using the 'first cause" argument or your final answer is "god" did it then you will have ultimately failed to provide anything. The fact is that there were many beliefs that people used to think "god" made or did it and our knowledge improved to the point that we no longer believes those things. The fact is that there may come a point where we know how he universe was created in a naturalistic way then what would be your answer. Also, the first cause only creates the question "who created the first cause." There is no real answer just the acceptance of a belief.

 

[Fuzzy_McNut]

Big bang:

They say that everything started from a big bang 20 billion years ago. But in physics there is a law called the conservation of angular momentum, which says if you had a big bang that exploded everything, then everything from that expolsion should be traveling in the same direction. But we have the sun spinning clockwise, and all 9 planets spinning counter clockwise, and 60 moons and 11 of them are spinning backwards.

When we look at the earth, the earth is seventy nine hundred miles from the north and south pole. It's the exact right size to accept the exact right amount of energy from the sun and the exact distance from the sun to give us the perfect temperature. And we can go into tons of examples of how percise everything has to be for us to have life here. And if you change these parameters by several percent we would either freeze to death or roast to death.

And evolution....dont let me get into that. It's funny that trees aren't 1 million years old..... i'll get into that if you want me to..

 

[RoadRage]

This is a complex subject with no simple answer, the theist will give you a dumb down answer that is insulting to anyone with half of a brain, while the atheist will tell you to prove god, with out mentioning they are not able to prove the simple building blocks of the univers (things we know exist), things like gravity, time, matter, anti-matter, black holes, dark energy, and dark mater. Shit the closest they have been able to prove their own existence is from René Descartes statement, I think therefor I am.... Nigga please!
Anyways, I wont type too much, but I will say that the subject is way deeper than most of us realize... And the most comprehensive explanation comes from complex and sacred geometry.
Here's a simple video on the subject that brings the complex subject to most of us. But you must have an open mind not one that has been polluted with nonsense from both thesis and atheist alike.

 

[Fuzzy_McNut]

I didn't read all of your post but if you are using the 'first cause" argument or your final answer is "god" did it then you will have ultimately failed to provide anything. The fact is that there were many beliefs that people used to think "god" made or did it and our knowledge improved to the point that we no longer believes those things. The fact is that there may come a point where we know how he universe was created in a naturalistic way then what would be your answer. Also, the first cause only creates the question "who created the first cause." There is no real answer just the acceptance of a belief.

i was lost until this part....but the ability to prove how something was made, does not disprove who made it.

A scientific explanation is simply that, an explanation. To prove god does not exist you would have to travel into time and be present when everything happened.

 

[exiledking]

now this is where you sound silly and i will breakdown your illogic.

let's start with your question: tell me how your Creator created the earth.Oh, you don't.

if you want proof god exists and want me to prove it, then that's not the question you should be asking.

If i said "frank made a car" and you wanted me to prove it....i dont have to tell you how he made it to prove it.
I fucking drove in it...that's the proof....i dont have to offer a blueprint of how he made the dam car. I dont know how it was made but i know i'm in it........


I dont know how god created the universe either, but i'm in it. I got here somewhere. And the big bang....i dont have to argue that science disagrees with it.....i posted the video but i'll go more indepth if you didnt understand.

took you long enough to get to your "watchmaker argument"

The reason you recognize a car is designed, is because YOU ALREADY KNOW it was designed.

rocks, humans, flowers, they all occure naturally. Cars don't.

It's a self reinforcing argument. You start out with a claim of things you KNOW are designed, then you assume that things that you have no idea came about are also designed. It certainly may seem that way, but it also seemed like the Sun went around the earth at one point.

So are you talking about something as complex as a car? or even a human? or something as simple as a cell? an atom?

You may have something there if you're talking about something SIMPLE, but the more complex organisms on earth EVOLVED to what they are now- and theres loads of proof for that.

SO are you telling me you believe in a creator at a simple level , that set evolution in place?

I'm trying to narrow your dance down, because as I said earlier, the vague thing you are describing may as well be called something else besides god. Or are you gonna skip by that part?

 

[RoadRage]

Big bang:

They say that everything started from a big bang 20 billion years ago. But in physics there is a law called the conservation of angular momentum, which says if you had a big bang that exploded everything, then everything from that expolsion should be traveling in the same direction. But we have the sun spinning clockwise, and all 9 planets spinning counter clockwise, and 60 moons and 11 of them are spinning backwards.

When we look at the earth, the earth is seventy nine hundred miles from the north and south pole. It's the exact right size to accept the exact right amount of energy from the sun and the exact distance from the sun to give us the perfect temperature. And we can go into tons of examples of how percise everything has to be for us to have life here. And if you change these parameters by several percent we would either freeze to death or roast to death.

And evolution....dont let me get into that. It's funny that trees aren't 1 million years old..... i'll get into that if you want me to..

With out God the Big Bang theory makes as much sense as Santa Clause.​

 

[Fuzzy_McNut]

creation, proof of a creator?

Which came first the chicken or the egg?
the egg.
But eggs have to come from chickens.

Ok the chicken

but chickens come from eggs

So i guess one of them had to be created.

The existance of this universe and how complex it is and the sequence that are found in nature is proof of a designer. No accept that as proof if you want to but it is proof. And the designer is often refered to as god. I personaly believe my designer is the God of the hebrew bible. Others call their designer something else....which is fine.

 

[RoadRage]

creation, proof of a creator?

Which came first the chicken or the egg?
the egg.
But eggs have to come from chickens.

Ok the chicken

but chickens come from eggs

So i guess one of them had to be created.

The existance of this universe and how complex it is and the sequence that are found in nature is proof of a designer. No accept that as proof if you want to but it is proof. And the designer is often refered to as god. I personaly believe my designer is the God of the hebrew bible. Others call their designer something else....which is fine.

Why do you think that proof is a reliable barometer or tool for detecting forces in the universe?

 

[exiledking]

Big bang:

They say that everything started from a big bang 20 billion years ago. But in physics there is a law called the conservation of angular momentum, which says if you had a big bang that exploded everything, then everything from that expolsion should be traveling in the same direction. But we have the sun spinning clockwise, and all 9 planets spinning counter clockwise, and 60 moons and 11 of them are spinning backwards.

When we look at the earth, the earth is seventy nine hundred miles from the north and south pole. It's the exact right size to accept the exact right amount of energy from the sun and the exact distance from the sun to give us the perfect temperature. And we can go into tons of examples of how percise everything has to be for us to have life here. And if you change these parameters by several percent we would either freeze to death or roast to death.

And evolution....dont let me get into that. It's funny that trees aren't 1 million years old..... i'll get into that if you want me to..

really? so let's see, first this law, which is not in any applicable

First, there is no conclusive indication of any net angular momentum to the universe, nor is a spinning singularity part of the standard theory.


then you do the fine tuning argument. Well, let's deal with that a sec. All fine tuning does is prove that the conditions on THIS TINY PORTION of the universe were condusive to life as we know it, FOR THIS TINY SLIVER OF TIME. It says nothing about a God, much less one who gives a shit whether we live or die. It speaks to adaptations, mutations, and natural selction more than anything.

 

[Fuzzy_McNut]

took you long enough to get to your "watchmaker argument"

The reason you recognize a car is designed, is because YOU ALREADY KNOW it was designed.

rocks, humans, flowers, they all occure naturally. Cars don't.

It's a self reinforcing argument. You start out with a claim of things you KNOW are designed, then you assume that things that you have no idea came about are also designed. It certainly may seem that way, but it also seemed like the Sun went around the earth at one point.

So are you talking about something as complex as a car? or even a human? or something as simple as a cell? an atom?

You may have something there if you're talking about something SIMPLE, but the more complex organisms on earth EVOLVED to what they are now- and theres loads of proof for that.

SO are you telling me you believe in a creator at a simple level , that set evolution in place?

I'm trying to narrow your dance down, because as I said earlier, the vague thing you are describing may as well be called something else besides god. Or are you gonna skip by that part?

That's because i have a life off of bgol, actually i'm waiting for GG to drop their new woman. They should be updating her any minute, they usually drop on this time tuesday. But anyways.

Now i recognize it was designed because of that, and also because you can look at tell it was designed. The shape and size and accesories on it alone fits the purpose it's intended for. If someone in the future saw a car, they could easily come to the conclusion it was created and probably even come to the conclusion it was used for transporting.

Like i said we can open up that evolution arguement if you want to go there.....it starts with the oldest tree. If man is 31314242 million years old, then why arent there any trees just as old?

sure you have questions i dont have the answer to but trust and belive i got a lot of questions i know you cant answer. and it doesn't support evolution....let them begin

 

[exiledking]

creation, proof of a creator?

Which came first the chicken or the egg?
the egg.
But eggs have to come from chickens.

Ok the chicken

but chickens come from eggs

So i guess one of them had to be created.

The existance of this universe and how complex it is and the sequence that are found in nature is proof of a designer. No accept that as proof if you want to but it is proof. And the designer is often refered to as god. I personaly believe my designer is the God of the hebrew bible. Others call their designer something else....which is fine.

yeah, you're spinning your wheels now. good night

 

[Fuzzy_McNut]

really? so let's see, first this law, which is not in any applicable

First, there is no conclusive indication of any net angular momentum to the universe, nor is a spinning singularity part of the standard theory.


then you do the fine tuning argument. Well, let's deal with that a sec. All fine tuning does is prove that the conditions on THIS TINY PORTION of the universe were condusive to life as we know it, FOR THIS TINY SLIVER OF TIME. It says nothing about a God, much less one who gives a shit whether we live or die. It speaks to adaptations, mutations, and natural selction more than anything.

How is it not applicable?

If there is no wind, no gravity...as it had not been created, then surely an explosion would cause everything to go in the same direction. If throw a ball and it knocks off your glasses, your glasses are going to follow the momentum of the force, it's not going to fly the opposite way.

And right there is no conclusive net force...which proves makes the big bang suspect. a bang is going to cause that...and this bang didnt

 

[CADE_BADAZZ]

I think their was nothing. Because if you listen to these scientist talk about The Big Bang and black holes they are the exact opposite. A black hole rips a hole in space time and its escape vilocity is greater than the speed of light. Black holes are smaller than anything and continue to get smaller, while the Big Bang started out like a black hole but expands faster than the speed of light.

What I do know is even the New Years Babies wont even find out in their life times.

 

[RoadRage]

Again with out God the Big bang theory makes no sense at all. Let me clue you..
If you were to travel to a black hole, and past the event horizon, you will fall into a vast blackness called a singularity, where the gravity pull is so strong not even light can escape its force.
Now this is a black hole from one giant star, now somebody tell me how the hell so much matter was able to escape the singularity hat created the big bang???? That gravitational pull had to be a trillion googolplexians times stronger than the singularity of a single star black hole. Besides can someone tell me how all that matter got there and where matter came from in the first place?
God = the creator of matter, find where matter came from and you will find God.

 

[Fuzzy_McNut]

Why do you think that proof is a reliable barometer or tool for detecting forces in the universe?

Are you sure you understood my post. Proof is only needed for those that want to believe and hold on to their belief.

The belief that god does not exist is a hard belief to hold on to.

 

[exiledking]

How is it not applicable?

If there is no wind, no gravity...as it had not been created, then surely an explosion would cause everything to go in the same direction. If throw a ball and it knocks off your glasses, your glasses are going to follow the momentum of the force, it's not going to fly the opposite way.

And right there is no conclusive net force...which proves makes the big bang suspect. a bang is going to cause that...and this bang didnt

I explained it in the next sentence. And your simplistic, kindegarten explanation only shows how limited you view it. The big Bang happened LONG before the Universe was formed. LONG before. And it didn't just start "spinning". It expanded. The things that set individual aspects of the universe is not even mentioned in the theory. Get it?

So, NO, it was never stated that way, meaning YOUR definition of the big bang has nothing to do with what it's actually been explained as.

 

[Fuzzy_McNut]

God = the creator of matter, find where matter came from and you will find God.

ummm....i think we agree.

 

[RoadRage]

Are you sure you understood my post. Proof is only needed for those that want to believe and hold on to their belief.

The belief that god does not exist is a hard belief to hold on to.

Proof is a very poor tool to understanding the universe. And the thesis version of God is strait comic book junk.
I believe that both sides dumb down the shit to stop people form really thinking and discovering the true answers of the universe. Science is cool, shit I am a science head, but science can help you understand about 1% of the universe, to understand the rest you have to be very spiritual and into higher mathematics especially geometry where you can find very interesting answers of god, via numbers and shapes.

 

[RoadRage]

ummm....i think we agree.

​

 

[exiledking]

Again with out God the Big bang theory makes no sense at all. Let me clue you..
If you were to travel to a black hole, and past the event horizon, you will fall into a vast blackness called a singularity, where the gravity pull is so strong not even light can escape its force.
Now this is a black hole from one giant star, now somebody tell me how the hell so much matter was able to escape the singularity hat created the big bang???? That gravitational pull had to be a trillion googolplexians times stronger than the singularity of a single star black hole. Besides can someone tell me how all that matter got there and where matter came from in the first place?
God = the creator of matter, find where matter came from and you will find God.

now tell me how that fits in this definition: God is most often conceived of as the supernatural creator and overseer of the universe. Theologians have ascribed a variety of attributes to the many different conceptions of God. The most common among these include omniscience (infinite knowledge), omnipotence (unlimited power), omnipresence (present everywhere), omnibenevolence (perfect goodness), divine simplicity, and eternal and necessary existence.

God has also been conceived as being incorporeal (immaterial), a personal being, the source of all moral obligation, and the "greatest conceivable existent".[1] These attributes were all supported to varying degrees by the early Jewish, Christian and Muslim theologian philosophers, including Maimonides,[2] Augustine of Hippo,[2] and Al-Ghazali,[3] respectively. Many notable medieval philosophers and modern philosophers have developed arguments for [3] and against the existence of God.


Oh, it doesn't.


I'll stick with SINGULARITY then.

 

[RoadRage]

now tell me how that fits in this definition: God is most often conceived of as the supernatural creator and overseer of the universe. Theologians have ascribed a variety of attributes to the many different conceptions of God. The most common among these include omniscience (infinite knowledge), omnipotence (unlimited power), omnipresence (present everywhere), omnibenevolence (perfect goodness), divine simplicity, and eternal and necessary existence.

God has also been conceived as being incorporeal (immaterial), a personal being, the source of all moral obligation, and the "greatest conceivable existent".[1] These attributes were all supported to varying degrees by the early Jewish, Christian and Muslim theologian philosophers, including Maimonides,[2] Augustine of Hippo,[2] and Al-Ghazali,[3] respectively. Many notable medieval philosophers and modern philosophers have developed arguments for [3] and against the existence of God.


Oh, it doesn't.


I'll stick with SINGULARITY then.

That is the white mans definition of God........ They are the least spiritual people on earth so that explains it all.
But do you care if I question you about the so called singularity???

 

[RoadRage]

now tell me how that fits in this definition: God is most often conceived of as the supernatural creator and overseer of the universe. Theologians have ascribed a variety of attributes to the many different conceptions of God. The most common among these include omniscience (infinite knowledge), omnipotence (unlimited power), omnipresence (present everywhere), omnibenevolence (perfect goodness), divine simplicity, and eternal and necessary existence.

God has also been conceived as being incorporeal (immaterial), a personal being, the source of all moral obligation, and the "greatest conceivable existent".[1] These attributes were all supported to varying degrees by the early Jewish, Christian and Muslim theologian philosophers, including Maimonides,[2] Augustine of Hippo,[2] and Al-Ghazali,[3] respectively. Many notable medieval philosophers and modern philosophers have developed arguments for [3] and against the existence of God.


Oh, it doesn't.


I'll stick with SINGULARITY then.

That is the white mans definition of God........ They are the least spiritual people on earth so that explains it all.
But do you care if I question you about the so called singularity???

 

[Fuzzy_McNut]

I explained it in the next sentence. And your simplistic, kindegarten explanation only shows how limited you view it. The big Bang happened LONG before the Universe was formed. LONG before. And it didn't just start "spinning". It expanded. The things that set individual aspects of the universe is not even mentioned in the theory. Get it?

So, NO, it was never stated that way, meaning YOUR definition of the big bang has nothing to do with what it's actually been explained as.

if disproving science with science is kindergarten and limited viewing, then dam it i'm as limited as they come.

 

[exiledking]

That is the white mans definition of God........ They are the least spiritual people on earth so that explains it all.
But do you care if I question you about the so called singularity???

awww man Roadrage, are you gonna get into that now? The White man? really?

Where the hell do you even get any of the ideas you were just talking about? You used the term singularity. aww never mind, I'm done. I'm not gonna do the white man/black man thing, when we all live in the same universe.

 

[RoadRage]

Answer this: what power or force in the Universe is remotely powerful enough to suck all of matter from the universe into a singularity? Hint, due to dark energy and dark matter, gravity is not remotely strong enough, if that were the case giant black holes found in the middle of galaxies would suck up every star rotating around it.
Then there is the problem of explaining where that matter found in the singularity came from in the first place. The two best explanations anyone can come up with is god or magic...... Now which theory are you rolling with?

 

[Fuzzy_McNut]

Proof is a very poor tool to understanding the universe. And the thesis version of God is strait comic book junk.
I believe that both sides dumb down the shit to stop people form really thinking and discovering the true answers of the universe. Science is cool, shit I am a science head, but science can help you understand about 1% of the universe, to understand the rest you have to be very spiritual and into higher mathematics especially geometry where you can find very interesting answers of god, via numbers and shapes.

Dont think they heard this part. If you/they/i only believe what science can prove, then we will only understand very little.

Science should not determine what you believe or disbelieve in. Science contradicts itself all the time.

 

[RoadRage]

awww man Roadrage, are you gonna get into that now? The White man? really?

Where the hell do you even get any of the ideas you were just talking about? You used the term singularity. aww never mind, I'm done. I'm not gonna do the white man/black man thing, when we all live in the same universe.

Yes the white man, the same people who invented gods based on themselves and stolen deities from other civilizations.. Note they are also the only people to create gods to control their people.
Other nations really used their gods to connect to the spirituality of God.
But that is a different subject for a different day.

 

[Fuzzy_McNut]

Answer this: what power or force in the Universe is remotely powerful enough to suck all of matter from the universe into a singularity? Hint, due to dark energy and dark matter, gravity is not remotely strong enough, if that were the case giant black holes found in the middle of galaxies would suck up every star rotating around it.
Then there is the problem of explaining where that matter found in the singularity came from in the first place. The two best explanations anyone can come up with is god or magic...... Now which theory are you rolling with?

anything or object that has properties that we dont understand is labeled as magic. but once science understands it you know they are going to put a label and term to it and people will accept that it's not impressive.

 

[exiledking]

Dont think they heard this part. If you/they/i only believe what science can prove, then we will only understand very little.

Science should not determine what you believe or disbelieve in. Science contradicts itself all the time.

that's the point- we understand very little.


You think you understand a lot?

 

[RoadRage]

Dont think they heard this part. If you/they/i only believe what science can prove, then we will only understand very little.

Science should not determine what you believe or disbelieve in. Science contradicts itself all the time.

​

Here is a chart of known things in the universe, things to note, dark matter and dark energy can not be measured, seen nor is there any proof of their existence other than mathematics that suggest there must be something out there effecting the orbit of the stars in the galaxies, allowing them to hold in place rather than fall apart or get sucking in the black hole.
That's 96% of the universe we can not prove at all.

 

[Fuzzy_McNut]

As the sun burns it islosing 5 million tons per second which means it's shriking. No i didn't learn this from the net, i just provided my source from the net. But it means if it was shrinking then that means it was bigger, which would also mean the gravatational pull would have been stronger. So 20 million years ago, if the sun burned at the rate it burns now, the sun would have been so big that it would touch the earth.

 

[RoadRage]

anything or object that has properties that we dont understand is labeled as magic. but once science understands it you know they are going to put a label and term to it and people will accept that it's not impressive.

At best science is good at labeling stuff, take gravity for instance, they don't know shit about it, how it looks, why its there, or how it really works, they just know that it is effected by two or more bodies of objects. So all they do is label and predict it effect and force. But no one really knows what it is.. The same can be said about light, matter, electricity and magnetism.

 

[Fuzzy_McNut]

that's the point- we understand very little.


You think you understand a lot?

relatively yes, but in reality no. This is why i'm not the one to tell anyone that __________ doesn't exist unless i have proof otherwise.