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THE WRESTLING THREAD: HHH KEEPS DOING HHH THINGS.....

dirtyd said:
Come on Dave you know that at some point Vince starts to work for them. Austin Rock HHH Taker Cena can all call their own shots, and if Punk did complain what are they going to do fire him? Not likely. My guess is now that he gets to sit at the "cool kids table" his frustrations have vanished in favor of a 6-7 figure salary.
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Austin and Rock aren't full time employees so they can away with doing certain things. Hell they're not even part time employees. Taker has been in the company 20 years and he doesn't wrestle enough at this point where Vince could bury him if he wanted to and HHH is another part timer who is married to Vince's daughter and is an executive in the company. Cena is the only other full time guy and with no competition if either Cena or Punk really did something to piss Vince the fuck off yes he'd bury them and then fire them cause where are they going to go? TNA who he doesn't need to worry about in the least or ROH which doesn't truly have a national presence.

Somebody else posted a thread with Jim Ross,Ted Dibiase,Sgt. Slaughter,Pat Patterson and JJ Dillon discussing wrestling's biggest over and underachievers and the one thing that was consistent was them mentioning how huge guys played themselves and right now Punk isn't being allowed to do that. When he cut that promo he was firmly entrenched as one of the top 2 heels in the company and that promo put him in the middle and since his return they've made him a face when he should be a tweener.
Punk isn't at the cool kids table cause Vince wants guys there that he can look at muscle mags with, workout with and have a drink with like he's one of the boys in the back and Punk and Daniel Bryan for instance aren't those guys.
 
Upgrade Dave said:
You think Punk is at their level already? You think more of him than I do.
Punk hasn't earned the respect, yet, that those guys have and each of them had real bad falling outs with Vince at one time or another (except Cena and that's coming, it always does).
He can complain all day but he's going to do because he's an employee. He was disgruntled all this year and seemingly last year and still went out and worked hard.
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No one will ever be at their level in this current state but he is one of the top guys now, but it's more by default than actual popularity. He was disgruntled when he was at the bottom of the totem pole but look at him know.

This guy Jaydub has some very interesting videos and in this one he kind of sums up what i've been saying this whole time.

 
c_commander said:
Austin and Rock aren't full time employees so they can away with doing certain things. Hell they're not even part time employees. Taker has been in the company 20 years and he doesn't wrestle enough at this point where Vince could bury him if he wanted to and HHH is another part timer who is married to Vince's daughter and is an executive in the company. Cena is the only other full time guy and with no competition if either Cena or Punk really did something to piss Vince the fuck off yes he'd bury them and then fire them cause where are they going to go? TNA who he doesn't need to worry about in the least or ROH which doesn't truly have a national presence.

Somebody else posted a thread with Jim Ross,Ted Dibiase,Sgt. Slaughter,Pat Patterson and JJ Dillon discussing wrestling's biggest over and underachievers and the one thing that was consistent was them mentioning how huge guys played themselves and right now Punk isn't being allowed to do that. When he cut that promo he was firmly entrenched as one of the top 2 heels in the company and that promo put him in the middle and since his return they've made him a face when he should be a tweener.
Punk isn't at the cool kids table cause Vince wants guys there that he can look at muscle mags with, workout with and have a drink with like he's one of the boys in the back and Punk and Daniel Bryan for instance aren't those guys.
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:yes:
Each of those guys mentioned was given a gimmick by Vince and the Office that sucked. When they were allowed to do their thing, they got over and Vince allowed them to continue it to a large extent for while before he started tinkering with them and turned them (Taker being the exception to that). Punk was like them but instead of letting Punk be Punk, they had to water him down immediately. That's their fault.

dirtyd said:
No one will ever be at their level in this current state but he is one of the top guys now, but it's more by default than actual popularity. He was disgruntled when he was at the bottom of the totem pole but look at him know.
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He's one of the top guys because he put himself there with his talking. Nothing default about Punk being a top guy. There are a bunch of guys they wanted to be ahead of Punk, some worked out, some didn't (ADR, Miz, Drew, Sheamus).
He's got nothing to be disgruntled about now. He's in a main event spot. He gets tv time and mic time. He gets that very important merch money. There's a tradeoff for that and if that means they water him down, so be it. It's the same tradeoff everyone else makes when they work for McMahon. Hell, Ric Flair wasn't even called "Nature Boy" when he first came to the WWF in 91.
 
c_commander said:
Austin and Rock aren't full time employees so they can away with doing certain things. Hell they're not even part time employees. Taker has been in the company 20 years and he doesn't wrestle enough at this point where Vince could bury him if he wanted to and HHH is another part timer who is married to Vince's daughter and is an executive in the company. Cena is the only other full time guy and with no competition if either Cena or Punk really did something to piss Vince the fuck off yes he'd bury them and then fire them cause where are they going to go? TNA who he doesn't need to worry about in the least or ROH which doesn't truly have a national presence.
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Im not talking current im talking about when they were there wrestling. Rock took unnecessary ass whippings from HHH, but if he wanted to he could've objected to it especially when he was the top dog bringing in massive ratings. Austin was like Cena where he barely lost but he would get his ass kicked plenty of times. The WWE isn't in the position to just bury & fire top guys now since they're struggling as is, people like me can bitch & moan about Cena but it's now been proven that he does bring in the best ratings out of everyone. We can keep telling ourselves "well if they do this or that things wil change" but we may just have to accept the fact that there's no one there outside of Cena who draws.
 
dirtyd said:
Im not talking current im talking about when they were there wrestling. Rock took unnecessary ass whippings from HHH, but if he wanted to he could've objected to it especially when he was the top dog bringing in massive ratings. Austin was like Cena where he barely lost but he would get his ass kicked plenty of times. The WWE isn't in the position to just bury & fire top guys now since they're struggling as is, people like me can bitch & moan about Cena but it's now been proven that he does bring in the best ratings out of everyone. We can keep telling ourselves "well if they do this or that things wil change" but we may just have to accept the fact that there's no one there outside of Cena who draws.
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Rock and Austin could afford to get their ass whooped because there were heels like HHH, Kurt Angle, Undertaker and Kane who were presented as being on their level. Over the last 2-3 years thanks to the John Cena let nobody get over tour there isn't a heel that is near the level of those guys cause while those guys were heels the WWE let them not only get heat consistently but also win consistently and get clean wins over main event guys. Miz, Del Rio, Christian,etc aren't presented that way at all. Mark Henry is the first guy in years to get that type of treatment. Cena draws cause Cena is the only guy they've pushed and pushed and pushed to the detriment of the rest of the company. And they did that with Orton as well which screwed up Punk during his heel run and Christian.
 
dirtyd said:
The WWE isn't in the position to just bury & fire top guys now since they're struggling as is, people like me can bitch & moan about Cena but it's now been proven that he does bring in the best ratings out of everyone. We can keep telling ourselves "well if they do this or that things wil change" but we may just have to accept the fact that there's no one there outside of Cena who draws.
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Their lack of drawing stars is their own fault. If Randy Savage came in and was jobbed out on tv months after his debut, what are the chances he would have gotten over like he did? Roddy Piper NEVER did a job on tv during his entire first run and that included to Hogan. Whether Hogan or Warrior or Diesel or Austin, they always had a top guy but they built other guys too, heels and faces. They don't do that anymore and now when they want do it, a lot of their fans are slow to accept the newer guys. I love Daniel Bryan but has he shown anything that says he's World champion material? Dude lost almost every match since winning MitB and wasn't exactly on a hot streak before. He comes across like he's just holding the belt until Sheamus or Randy get it back.

c_commander said:
Rock and Austin could afford to get their ass whooped because there were heels like HHH, Kurt Angle, Undertaker and Kane who were presented as being on their level. Over the last 2-3 years thanks to the John Cena let nobody get over tour there isn't a heel that is near the level of those guys cause while those guys were heels the WWE let them not only get heat consistently but also win consistently and get clean wins over main event guys. Miz, Del Rio, Christian,etc aren't presented that way at all. Mark Henry is the first guy in years to get that type of treatment. Cena draws cause Cena is the only guy they've pushed and pushed and pushed to the detriment of the rest of the company. And they did that with Orton as well which screwed up Punk during his heel run and Christian.
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:yes:
 
Jericho arriving at the airport at the site of tonight's RAW

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A photo of Chris Jericho arriving at the Nashville International Airport in Nashville, Tennessee yesterday has leaked online. This airport is just a few hundred miles from Memphis, Tennessee - the sight of tonight's WWE RAW Supershow.
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Upgrade Dave said:
Their lack of drawing stars is their own fault. If Randy Savage came in and was jobbed out on tv months after his debut, what are the chances he would have gotten over like he did? Roddy Piper NEVER did a job on tv during his entire first run and that included to Hogan. Whether Hogan or Warrior or Diesel or Austin, they always had a top guy but they built other guys too, heels and faces. They don't do that anymore and now when they want do it, a lot of their fans are slow to accept the newer guys. I love Daniel Bryan but has he shown anything that says he's World champion material? Dude lost almost every match since winning MitB and wasn't exactly on a hot streak before. He comes across like he's just holding the belt until Sheamus or Randy get it back.
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We're kind of talking in circles here, you say they're jobbing guys out which is why no one cares while im saying they just don't have that guy with the it factor to grab peoples attention. Punk is great for the internet & indy fans but mainstream quickly dropped him when he came back a week later. Daniel Bryan is not a world champ and imo him punk & Ryder posing in the ring was more :hmm:than:yes:.
 
NightMare Paint said:
Jericho arriving at the airport at the site of tonight's RAW

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There's a photo going around of The Undertaker and Michelle McCool arriving to an arena with the report that they're in town for tonight's RAW. The photo is an old photo, taken at least a year ago, from a WWE event in Massachusetts. There is no photo of Taker and McCool arriving in Tennessee for tonight's RAW.
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:lol::lol::lol::lol: they should of had Jericho fly in on a red eye flight.
 
dirtyd said:
We're kind of talking in circles here, you say they're jobbing guys out which is why no one cares while im saying they just don't have that guy with the it factor to grab peoples attention. Punk is great for the internet & indy fans but mainstream quickly dropped him when he came back a week later. Daniel Bryan is not a world champ and imo him punk & Ryder posing in the ring was more :hmm:than:yes:.
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The IT factor counts for something but it's also the way that a person is presented. Considering how much people jumped all over including crossing over to the mainstream Punk must have something. Stone Cold Steve Austin was one of wrestling's biggest but in WCW he was midcarder, The Rock superstar, Rocky Maivia was bored out of the building, Taker superstar, Mean Mark Callous midcarder who was jobbed out to Lex Luger. And the one time that Bryan really looked like a threat was during the Nexus beatdown of Cena and he and the company were unable to capitalize on it. And Ryder went from not being on TV for at least a year to being called a doofus to being US champ in a short time.
 
c_commander said:
The IT factor counts for something but it's also the way that a person is presented. Considering how much people jumped all over including crossing over to the mainstream Punk must have something. Stone Cold Steve Austin was one of wrestling's biggest but in WCW he was midcarder, The Rock superstar, Rocky Maivia was bored out of the building, Taker superstar, Mean Mark Callous midcarder who was jobbed out to Lex Luger. And the one time that Bryan really looked like a threat was during the Nexus beatdown of Cena and he and the company were unable to capitalize on it. And Ryder went from not being on TV for at least a year to being called a doofus to being US champ in a short time.
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Not necessarily. I agree that someone has to be built up in order for people the care about them, but at the same time you can't just sit on your ass and wait for creative to put you in that position. Austin was a high level mid carder in WCW and it's universally agreed that WCW fucked up on him big time. DB got to whoop Cena's ass so to be fair anyone would've gotten that same reaction since it was Cena. Punk cut a shoot that in all honesty half the roster could've cut, especially since it was pre written on his wristape. I wish it was Christian who had cut that promo because to me it fit better for him. As for Ryder i respect his hustle but he's still a doofus who just happens to have a belt now.
 
dirtyd said:
Not necessarily. I agree that someone has to be built up in order for people the care about them, but at the same time you can't just sit on your ass and wait for creative to put you in that position. Austin was a high level mid carder in WCW and it's universally agreed that WCW fucked up on him big time. DB got to whoop Cena's ass so to be fair anyone would've gotten that same reaction since it was Cena. Punk cut a shoot that in all honesty half the roster could've cut, especially since it was pre written on his wristape. I wish it was Christian who had cut that promo because to me it fit better for him. As for Ryder i respect his hustle but he's still a doofus who just happens to have a belt now.
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Even now they have Cole describing Bryan as "the most nondescript champion of all-time" They refuse to even allow Bryan to be elevated by his title reign. They did it with Miz to a degree but just like they did with Punk the first time he cashed in the MITB they make no effort to elevate the guy. That's why Punk could cut that promo. Christian is a talented enough speaker to do it as is Edge, half the company :smh: but they don't have the relationship with the company that Punk has in which Vince didn't get why they signed or promoted the guy in the first place let alone giving him any type of push. Jobbing him out in a 12 minute Hell in a Cell match apparently in part because the company didn't like how he dressed.:smh: As for Bryan if he hadn't gotten fired he would have been the primary worker for Nexus and been ale to get over in the ring. Plus he's also better as a heel and when he gets to exhibit intensity which they really don't do right now.And as for Ryder he's still presented as a doofus.

Presentatation couns. HHH went from typical snobby heel to comical heel who was inferior to HBK to slightly more serious but didn't get to top level until he started beating the top guys and was given the sledgehammer as his instrument of torture.For instance does R-Truth look that threatening when his weapon of doom is a fucking water botte? Besides it's not about waiting on creative it's about the fact that if creative and management doesn't want to put you in a position to succeed you won't. Ryder is still a great example cause he didn't get any type of push until he started moving t-shirts. Hell they were taking signs people had for him earlier in the year.
 
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This was dope, but it would have been doper if it was Lesnar so he could get the program with him and Undertaker started. I am REALLY hoping they fight at Mania. Taker and HHH was good, but I don't want to see it again...:smh:
 
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