New Obama Care Law Requires Large Insurers To Justify Big Rate Increases Take Effect

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Another provision of Obama Care for the people and not the bloodsuckers.

source: STL Today

Health care law targets premiums

In new requirement, large insurers will have to justify big rate increases.


WASHINGTON • Health insurers will have to start publicly justifying big rate increases, according to a new requirement of the health care law implemented Thursday to put pressure on insurance companies to hold down skyrocketing premiums.

The new rules will mandate that insurers post explanations of premium increases exceeding 10 percent on their websites and submit them to state and federal regulators, who will also post them later this year.

President Barack Obama's administration plans to rely on state insurance regulators to scrutinize insurance rates, but federal regulators will conduct insurance oversight in states where the administration has determined that state oversight is inadequate, such as Missouri, as well as Alabama, Arizona, Louisiana, Montana, Pennsylvania, Virginia and Wyoming.

In the future, Obama's administration plans to work with states to set individual state-by-state thresholds for rate hikes that will require public explanation from insurance companies.

"For far too long, families and small employers have been at the mercy of insurance rate increases that often put coverage out of their reach," Secretary of Health and Human Services Kathleen Sebelius said in a statement. "Rate review will shed a bright light on the industry's behavior and drive market competition to lower costs."

The new rules do not give state and federal regulators new authority to block rate hikes, however, even if government officials find the increases are unjustified.

Some states already have this power, and several particularly aggressive states, such as Oregon and Rhode Island, routinely make insurers lower their rate increases after determining proposed hikes are unjustified.

Even in less activist states, some regulators have been beefing up oversight of insurance companies with the help of federal grant money made available by the health care law Obama signed last year.

But to the chagrin of consumer advocates, 30 states still do not have authority to block rate hikes in both the individual and small group markets, according to a 2010 survey by the nonprofit Kaiser Family Foundation.

"Disclosure alone will never be enough to prevent health insurers from charging unreasonable insurance premiums. To protect consumers, regulators must have the power to review and reject excessive rates," said Carmen Balber, Washington director for Consumer Watchdog.
 
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More regulation = Job killer!!!

He shelved an EPA bill just this morning. Yet stick it to the job creators, we only created 0 fricken jobs in the month of August. The first time since 1945 I might add. Yet you celebrate.
 
Re: New Obama Care Law Requires Large Insurers To Justify Big Rate Increases Take Eff

More regulation = Job killer!!!

He shelved an EPA bill just this morning. Yet stick it to the job creators, we only created 0 fricken jobs in the month of August. The first time since 1945 I might add. Yet you celebrate.


He shelved an EPA bill just this morning

An your bitching?

No answer from Gunner. Expected!
 
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Re: New Obama Care Law Requires Large Insurers To Justify Big Rate Increases Take Eff

More regulation = Job killer!!!

He shelved an EPA bill just this morning. Yet stick it to the job creators, we only created 0 fricken jobs in the month of August. The first time since 1945 I might add. Yet you celebrate.

Another dumb post from Gunner.

Learn to read and stop listening to news clips.


there was a net gain of zero

that means there were 17000 private sector jobs created

but 17000 government jobs were eliminated so that is a wash

a net gain of 0.



so stop being a parrot.
 
Re: New Obama Care Law Requires Large Insurers To Justify Big Rate Increases Take Eff

Obama Scraps Controversial EPA Smog Regulation
Published September 02, 2011
| FoxNews.com
Print Email Share Comments

In this June 15, 2011 file photo, Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) Administrator Lisa Jackson testifies on Capitol Hill in Washington.
Bowing to the demands of House Republicans and some business leaders, President Obama is backing off a controversial proposed regulation tightening government smog standards.
In a statement Friday, Obama said he had ordered Environmental Protection Agency administrator Lisa Jackson to withdraw the proposal, in part because of the importance of reducing regulatory burdens and uncertainty for businesses at a time of rampant uncertainty about an unsteady economy.


The withdrawal of the proposed EPA rule comes two days after the White House, at the request of House Speaker John Boehner, identified seven such regulations that it said would cost private business at least $1 billion each. The proposed smog standard was estimated to cost anywhere between $19 billion and $90 billion, depending on how strict it would be.
The smog standard was among the Obama administration regulations that House Republicans said this week they would try to block this fall.
"This is certainly a good first step, and we're glad that the White House responded to the speaker's letter and recognized the job-killing impact of this particular regulation," Boehner spokesman Michael Steel said.
"But it is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to stopping Washington Democrats' agenda of tax hikes, more government 'stimulus' spending, and increased regulations -- which are all making it harder to create more American jobs," he said.
House Majority Leader Eric Cantor said, "This is a step in the right direction. ... With a stalled economy and millions of Americans out of work, we cannot afford any sort of costly regulation that would destroy jobs and hamstring growth. House Republicans will continue our efforts to make sure the remaining regulations do not go into effect."
Administration officials said Friday that Obama's decision had nothing to do with politics. They said Obama's been committed to reducing regulator burdens since he became president.
As expected, the move raised the ire of environmentalists, a core Obama constituency.
"The Sierra Club condemns the Obama administration's decision to delay critical, long-overdue protections from smog, an acidic air pollutant that when inhaled is like getting sunburn on your lungs," Executive Director Michael Brune said in a statement. "By putting the interest of coal and oil polluters first, the White House seems to be saying that 'clean air will have to wait.'"
In his statement, Obama said he was still committed to protecting public health and the environment.
"I will continue to stand with the hardworking men and women at the EPA as they strive every day to hold polluters accountable and protect our families from harmful pollution," he said.
Jackson said in a statement that the agency will "revisit" the smog standard in compliance with the Clean Air Act.
The America Petroleum Institute (API), which represents nearly 500 oil and natural gas companies, welcomed the president's decision.
"The president's decision is good news for the economy and Americans looking for work," API President and CEO Jack Gerard said in a statement. "EPA's proposal would have prevented the very job creation that President Obama has identified as his top priority."
The U.S. Chamber of Commerce, which represents more than 3 million businesses, also cheered the decision.
"The U.S. Chamber is glad the White House heeded our warning and withdrew these potentially disastrous -- and completely voluntary -- actions from the EPA," Chamber President and CEO Thomas Donohue said in a statement.
"This is an enormous victory for America's job creators, the right decision by the president, and one that will help reduce the uncertainty facing business," he said. "It's also a big first step in what needs to be a broader regulatory reform effort."


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...troversial-epa-smog-regulation/#ixzz1Wpoz0anN


Even Obama noticed the job killing effect. You do know that this will be passed onto those who actually pay taxes.
 
Re: New Obama Care Law Requires Large Insurers To Justify Big Rate Increases Take Eff

Obama Scraps Controversial EPA Smog Regulation
Published September 02, 2011
| FoxNews.com
Print Email Share Comments

In this June 15, 2011 file photo, Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) Administrator Lisa Jackson testifies on Capitol Hill in Washington.
Bowing to the demands of House Republicans and some business leaders, President Obama is backing off a controversial proposed regulation tightening government smog standards.
In a statement Friday, Obama said he had ordered Environmental Protection Agency administrator Lisa Jackson to withdraw the proposal, in part because of the importance of reducing regulatory burdens and uncertainty for businesses at a time of rampant uncertainty about an unsteady economy.


The withdrawal of the proposed EPA rule comes two days after the White House, at the request of House Speaker John Boehner, identified seven such regulations that it said would cost private business at least $1 billion each. The proposed smog standard was estimated to cost anywhere between $19 billion and $90 billion, depending on how strict it would be.
The smog standard was among the Obama administration regulations that House Republicans said this week they would try to block this fall.
"This is certainly a good first step, and we're glad that the White House responded to the speaker's letter and recognized the job-killing impact of this particular regulation," Boehner spokesman Michael Steel said.
"But it is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to stopping Washington Democrats' agenda of tax hikes, more government 'stimulus' spending, and increased regulations -- which are all making it harder to create more American jobs," he said.
House Majority Leader Eric Cantor said, "This is a step in the right direction. ... With a stalled economy and millions of Americans out of work, we cannot afford any sort of costly regulation that would destroy jobs and hamstring growth. House Republicans will continue our efforts to make sure the remaining regulations do not go into effect."
Administration officials said Friday that Obama's decision had nothing to do with politics. They said Obama's been committed to reducing regulator burdens since he became president.
As expected, the move raised the ire of environmentalists, a core Obama constituency.
"The Sierra Club condemns the Obama administration's decision to delay critical, long-overdue protections from smog, an acidic air pollutant that when inhaled is like getting sunburn on your lungs," Executive Director Michael Brune said in a statement. "By putting the interest of coal and oil polluters first, the White House seems to be saying that 'clean air will have to wait.'"
In his statement, Obama said he was still committed to protecting public health and the environment.
"I will continue to stand with the hardworking men and women at the EPA as they strive every day to hold polluters accountable and protect our families from harmful pollution," he said.
Jackson said in a statement that the agency will "revisit" the smog standard in compliance with the Clean Air Act.
The America Petroleum Institute (API), which represents nearly 500 oil and natural gas companies, welcomed the president's decision.
"The president's decision is good news for the economy and Americans looking for work," API President and CEO Jack Gerard said in a statement. "EPA's proposal would have prevented the very job creation that President Obama has identified as his top priority."
The U.S. Chamber of Commerce, which represents more than 3 million businesses, also cheered the decision.
"The U.S. Chamber is glad the White House heeded our warning and withdrew these potentially disastrous -- and completely voluntary -- actions from the EPA," Chamber President and CEO Thomas Donohue said in a statement.
"This is an enormous victory for America's job creators, the right decision by the president, and one that will help reduce the uncertainty facing business," he said. "It's also a big first step in what needs to be a broader regulatory reform effort."


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...troversial-epa-smog-regulation/#ixzz1Wpoz0anN


Even Obama noticed the job killing effect. You do know that this will be passed onto those who actually pay taxes.

So deal with jobs first and then deal with the EPA...He postponed this move..let's see if the job creators create any jobs.

You mofokrs always talk that job creation shit but when asked where are those jobs we hear crickets.

10 years of Bush tax cuts for the Rich and Bush had no job creation and there has been little from that segment under Obama. If they didn't hold the unemployment benefits hostage and the tax cuts for the working class then they would have been killed but that is coming unless they show they create jobs.......................................................................................................................................................................................................................................In this country
 
Re: New Obama Care Law Requires Large Insurers To Justify Big Rate Increases Take Eff

Another dumb post from Gunner.

Learn to read and stop listening to news clips.


there was a net gain of zero

that means there were 17000 private sector jobs created

but 17000 government jobs were eliminated so that is a wash

a net gain of 0.



so stop being a parrot.

Dumb? You voted for hope and change. Now you defend mediocrity.:hmm:

You made my point for me. If you are a running back and you gain five yards, the the next play you lose five. You blow your knee out. Your stats in the record books is -5. Which is fricken zero. Mr. Low Expectation.
 
Re: New Obama Care Law Requires Large Insurers To Justify Big Rate Increases Take Eff

January US jobs lost: 598,000 jobs
February US jobs lost: 706,000 jobs
March US jobs lost: 742,000 jobs
April US jobs lost: 545,000 jobs
May US jobs lost: 345,000 jobs
June US jobs lost: 467,000 jobs
July US jobs lost: 247,000 jobs
August US jobs lost: 216,000 jobs
September US jobs lost: 263,000 jobs
October US jobs lost: 190,000 jobs
November US jobs lost: 11,000 jobs
December US jobs lost: 85,000 jobs
January US jobs lost: 20,000
February US jobs lost: 30,000
March US jobs lost: -162,000
April US jobs lost: -290,000
May US jobs lost: -431,000
June US jobs lost: 125,000
July US jobs lost: 131,000
August US jobs lost: 54,000
September US jobs lost: 95,000
October US jobs lost: -151,000
November US jobs lost: -39,000
December US jobs lost: -103,000
January US jobs lost: -36,000
February US jobs lost: -196,000
March US jobs lost: -216,000
April US jobs lost: -244,000
May US jobs lost: -54,000
June US jobs lost: -18,000
July US jobs lost: -117,000
August US jobs lost: 0

Total US jobs lost under Obama: 2,813,000 jobs

Bush_vs_Obama.jpg


Defend the data Mr. Low Expectation. I know you wont because you cant. So attack the messenger or the source.
 
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Re: New Obama Care Law Requires Large Insurers To Justify Big Rate Increases Take Eff

Are you searching? No growth is no growth. Who's the parrot now?
 
Re: New Obama Care Law Requires Large Insurers To Justify Big Rate Increases Take Eff

January US jobs lost: 598,000 jobs
February US jobs lost: 706,000 jobs
March US jobs lost: 742,000 jobs
April US jobs lost: 545,000 jobs
May US jobs lost: 345,000 jobs
June US jobs lost: 467,000 jobs
July US jobs lost: 247,000 jobs
August US jobs lost: 216,000 jobs
September US jobs lost: 263,000 jobs
October US jobs lost: 190,000 jobs
November US jobs lost: 11,000 jobs
December US jobs lost: 85,000 jobs
January US jobs lost: 20,000
February US jobs lost: 30,000
March US jobs lost: -162,000
April US jobs lost: -290,000
May US jobs lost: -431,000
June US jobs lost: 125,000
July US jobs lost: 131,000
August US jobs lost: 54,000
September US jobs lost: 95,000
October US jobs lost: -151,000
November US jobs lost: -39,000
December US jobs lost: -103,000
January US jobs lost: -36,000
February US jobs lost: -196,000
March US jobs lost: -216,000
April US jobs lost: -244,000
May US jobs lost: -54,000
June US jobs lost: -18,000
July US jobs lost: -117,000
August US jobs lost: 0

Total US jobs lost under Obama: 2,813,000 jobs

Bush_vs_Obama.jpg


Defend the data Mr. Low Expectation. I know you wont because you cant. So attack the messenger or the source.

You are the GOP parrot...

chart-020510-update.gif

President Obama is on pace to create more jobs in 2010 than President Bush did in his eight years of office.


“On the pace that we’re on with job creation in the last four months — if we continue on that pace — all the leading economists say it is likely that we will — we will have created more jobs in this year than in the entire Bush Presidency,” Wasserman Schultz, a Democrat from Weston, said on FOX News.

Let’s look at the Bureau of Labor Statistics data.

During the Bush presidency, net total employment went up by 1.08 million jobs. So far, during the Obama presidency, total employment has been reduced by 3.3 million jobs.

Under Bush, private employment shrank by 673,000 jobs, federal employment grew by 50,000 jobs, and government employment grew by 1,753,000 jobs.

Under Obama, the private sector has shed some 2.9 million jobs while the federal government has grown by 40,000 (after growing massively, the federal workforce shrank throughout the summer). Total government jobs, however, shrank by 357,000 jobs, mainly because of cuts at the state and local levels.

spending.jpg


deficits.jpg


the-stimulus.jpg


A new report from the New York Times attempts to answer the ques*tions — how did our econ*omy get to this point? And where did this mas*sive deficit come from? The report took the spend*ing habits of the last pres*i*dent, and com*pared them to those of Pres*i*dent Obama, from his inau*gu*ra*tion in 2009 and pro*jected through 2017, and inter*est*ingly, despite what Repub*li*cans and Con*ser*v*a*tives think, George Bush still out-spent Barack Obama by more than 2 to 1.

When Pres*i*dent Clin*ton left office in 2001, George Bush inher*ited a sur*plus, one that was pro*jected to be over a tril*lion dol*lars for the next decade if the Clin*ton poli*cies remained in effect. The chart below, which took infor*ma*tion from The Con*gres*sional Bud*get Office and The Cen*ter on Bud*get and Pol*icy Pri*or*i*ties, tells the story of George Bush and his spend*ing ways, and how he turned a sur*plus into a deficit begin*ning in 2002, and how that deficit grew each year until he left office in 2009.
•The Bush wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, along with Defense — $1.5 Tril*lion added to the deficit.
•The Bush Tax Cuts — $1.8 Tril*lion added to the deficit.
•Non-Defense Dis*cre*tionary spend*ing under George Bush — $608 Bil*lion added to the deficit.
•Bush Tarp and other Bailouts — $224 Bil*lion added to the deficit.
•Bush’s Medicare Drug Poli*cies — $180 Bil*lion added to the deficit.
•Bush’s Stim*u*lus and other spend*ing — #773 Bil*lion added to the deficit.
24editorial_graph2-popup-1.gif

All in all, George Bush took an actual sur*plus of $127 bil*lion in 2001, and turned it into a deficit of $319 bil*lion in 2005. His total in new spend*ing equaled over $5 tril*lion. This fig*ure dwarfs the $1.44 tril*lion in new spend*ing Pres*i*dent Obama is expected to make through two terms end*ing in 2017.

It should be noted that the biggest spend*ing spree George Bush and the Repub*li*cans went on, accord*ing to these fig*ures from the Con*gres*sional Bud*get Office, were the Bush Tax Cuts. The New York Times report puts it this way; “If all of them [Bush Tax Cuts] expired as sched*uled at the end of 2012, future deficits would be cut by about half, to sus*tain*able levels”.


Didn't have to look far
 
Re: New Obama Care Law Requires Large Insurers To Justify Big Rate Increases Take Eff

President Obama is on pace to create more jobs in 2010 than President Bush did in his eight years of office.

We know this is a spurious statement ( 9.1% unemployment)


“On the pace that we’re on with job creation in the last four months — if we continue on that pace — all the leading economists say it is likely that we will — we will have created more jobs in this year than in the entire Bush Presidency,” Wasserman Schultz, a Democrat from Weston, said on FOX News.

Again we know this is not true based on the jobs report released the Labor Bureau


Let’s look at the Bureau of Labor Statistics data.

During the Bush presidency, net total employment went up by 1.08 million jobs. So far, during the Obama presidency, total employment has been reduced by 3.3 million jobs.

Under Bush, private employment shrank by 673,000 jobs, federal employment grew by 50,000 jobs, and government employment grew by 1,753,000 jobs.

Under Obama, the private sector has shed some 2.9 million jobs while the federal government has grown by 40,000 (after growing massively, the federal workforce shrank throughout the summer). Total government jobs, however, shrank by 357,000 jobs, mainly because of cuts at the state and local levels.

Yes local governments will cut if they don't have the money.

Using your term parrot, she's simply defending the base. Just like Biden said we would be churning out 200-500 thousand jobs per month. Haven't seen evidence of it yet.
 
Re: New Obama Care Law Requires Large Insurers To Justify Big Rate Increases Take Eff

chart-020510-update.gif


Office of the Speaker? Pelosi? :puke:


A new report from the New York Times attempts to answer the ques*tions — how did our econ*omy get to this point? And where did this mas*sive deficit come from? The report took the spend*ing habits of the last pres*i*dent, and com*pared them to those of Pres*i*dent Obama, from his inau*gu*ra*tion in 2009 and pro*jected through 2017, and inter*est*ingly, despite what Repub*li*cans and Con*ser*v*a*tives think, George Bush still out-spent Barack Obama by more than 2 to 1.

When Pres*i*dent Clin*ton left office in 2001, George Bush inher*ited a sur*plus, one that was pro*jected to be over a tril*lion dol*lars for the next decade if the Clin*ton poli*cies remained in effect. He was forced to cut spending with a republican controlled congress. He didn't want to cut anything.The chart below, which took infor*ma*tion from The Con*gres*sional Bud*get Office and The Cen*ter on Bud*get and Pol*icy Pri*or*i*ties, tells the story of George Bush and his spend*ing ways, and how he turned a sur*plus into a deficit begin*ning in 2002, and how that deficit grew each year until he left office in 2009.
•The Bush wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, along with Defense — $1.5 Tril*lion added to the deficit.
•The Bush Tax Cuts — $1.8 Tril*lion added to the deficit.
•Non-Defense Dis*cre*tionary spend*ing under George Bush — $608 Bil*lion added to the deficit.
•Bush Tarp and other Bailouts — $224 Bil*lion added to the deficit.
•Bush’s Medicare Drug Poli*cies — $180 Bil*lion added to the deficit.
•Bush’s Stim*u*lus and other spend*ing — #773 Bil*lion added to the deficit.

According to my chart you will see Bush had a problem with spending as well. Yet that took eight years. Obama has spent more than all presidents combined in 2 years.
 
Re: New Obama Care Law Requires Large Insurers To Justify Big Rate Increases Take Eff

Bush made budget decisions without his Treasury Secretary because the he didn't agree with their decisions so they just omitted him.

this is quite funny since Bush had bankrupted every business he had been in charge of.

Treasury Secretary Paul O’Neill, who opposed the big tax cuts favored by Mr. Cheney, is treated similarly brusquely — much the way he was dismissed from his job in December 2002. Mr. Cheney does not discuss Mr. O’Neill’s concern that such tax cuts might lead to a dangerous deficit; rather, he makes the following odd argument, which ratifies other administration insiders’ views that the policy-making process in the Bush administration was both dysfunctional and ad hoc:

“Economic policy was being run out of the White House, and meetings to make big decisions often did not include the Treasury secretary. O’Neill should have demanded — as Hank Paulson would later demand — to be included in any White House meeting about economic policy. On the other hand, either the president or I could have said: ‘Where’s O’Neill? We should not be having this meeting without the treasury secretary.’
Cheney was no better has CEO of Haliburton.

A few months after 9/11 Halliburton was trading at an 18 year low due to bad acquisitions made by Dick Cheney when he was CEO. Right after 9/11 Cheney starts making up bogus reasons to invade Iraq.

March 2003, U.S. invades Iraq.

December 2003, eight Halliburton subsidiaries including KBR file for Chapter 11 protection in a Pittsburg Federal Bankruptcy Court.

Almost every decision made by the White House caused the occupation to go horribly wrong — while coincidentally having the effect of increasing the value of privatization contracts.

January 2005, Halliburton puts $2.8 billion in cash and $2.3 billion of inflated stock into an asbestos liability fund, which saved the company from bankruptcy. Both cash and stock price came by way of privatization contracts awarded to the company in Iraq.

January 2007, President Bush announces "The Surge" — for the first time it looks like the White House is making a good faith effort to create a reasonable outcome in Iraq. Again coincidentally, this happens after Halliburton has escaped bankruptcy.

Without the Iraq war, Cheney's legacy would be the man who destroyed Halliburton. Scooter Libby knows this. That is why it was so important for Cheney to get the pardon. Bush and maybe even Laura has probably figured this out — which is one reason he didn't pardon Libby.

Today, probably less than one percent of Americans know that Halliburton was on the brink of bankruptcy before the occupation. Cheney had a huge conflict of interest in taking the country to war. Not because he wanted to make money for Halliburton, but because he needed to make money for Halliburton — to rescue his legacy.


Go ahead with that bullshit.

:lol::lol::lol::lol:
 
Re: New Obama Care Law Requires Large Insurers To Justify Big Rate Increases Take Eff

Mismatch: Lee Doren vs. some dumb chart “proving” Obama’s stimulus worked
This is Lee Doren’s latest YouTube video, in which he debunks a misleading chart that’s been floating around online lately which absurdly claims to prove that Obama’s stimulus had something other than a catastrophic effect on employment.



<iframe width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/GjJPivGcDj8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
Re: New Obama Care Law Requires Large Insurers To Justify Big Rate Increases Take Eff

I had a nice healthy rant all written for this because people who use charts and data to lie piss me off and the self-righteous ones are the worst. But it detracted from this post, so if you want to, you can read it here. Not work that I'm proud of, but it's fun to write every once in a while.

There is a piece called "The Three Charts to E-Mail Your Right Wing Brother-In-Law" that is making the rounds and impressing many people who don't know too much about the underlying data. Which is almost everyone.

So lets dig into these charts and how we can fix them.

The first one is about Federal Spending and claims that "Bush Spending" saw an 88% increase while Obama spending has seen only a 7.2% increase.
6088811201_96839c6977.jpg


The problems with this chart in no particular order:

These two charts assume that the entirety of the 2009 fiscal situation lies squarely on George W. Bush's shoulders. I would like to posit that this is unfair. There was a bill that got passed (you may have heard of it) that goes by the popular name "the stimulus". It started immediately spending vast sums of money starting in the fiscal year 2009. George W. Bush had nothing to do with this bill.

I did a little digging and found that the budget Bush proposed for 2009 was for $3.09 trillion while the amount spent during that fiscal year was $3.52 trillion. Now, this might not matter if these kinds of variations were common. But here is a graph of the difference between the proposed spending and the actual spending for the past 10 years. We're going to play a game called "one of these things is not like the others".
SpendingDiffs.jpg

We can see that 2009 is a huge outlier... the difference between what was proposed and what was spent is 5 times more than any other year ( $429.1 billion).

Yep... that's what happens when you propose vast amounts of immediate spending in the middle of a fiscal year. Given that Bush had to sign the budget he was given by a Democratic Congress, I think it's charitable to say that he is "responsible" for what he proposed: the original $3.09 trillion.

This is a minor quibble, but it matters because it's a sign that the person who created the chart doesn't care about accuracy. Ignoring inflation will always make spending increases look drastic because we're compounding real increases with inflation increases. It also matters because, if we adjust for inflation and use Bush's last spending proposal, he increased spending by 39% or about 5% a year.

President Obama's budget proposal basically has us maintaining a stable level of spending until 2014, when it starts increasing drastically. The author chose not to chart this data, even though it was right there in front of him. Why? I assume it's because he's a partisan hack, but I'm not altogether prepared to rule out that he is, in fact, just an idiot.

By including these spending targets, we get a much more "apples to apples" comparison where we're comparing 8 years of "Bush spending" to 7 years of "Obama spending".

If we take all these problems and put them together, we end up with another chart altogether.
Chart1.jpg

The second chart says that Bush increased the deficit and Obama is decreasing it.
6089355018_3eea3fa4be.jpg

First of all, the same "Bush is responsible for everything in FY2009" thing above applies here too. In addition to that:

I know that right wingers will maintain till their dying breath that tax cuts don't reduce revenue, they increase revenue. I'm not really in that camp and this is my blog, so I get to do things my way. So there.

According to CNN at the time, the stimulus was going to save the average household $1,179. Using the 2009 Census estimate of 112.6 million households, that comes out to $132.7 billion. If we add that to the $429 billion difference between Bush's spending proposal and the spending reality and then subtract that from the final deficit, we get a deficit of $894.4 billion.

$132.7 billion in stimulus tax cuts
+ $429.1 billion in un-planned spending
- $1,415.7 billion actual deficit
======================
$836.2 billion of the 2009 deficit that is "Bush's fault"

Notice how the chart goes down in 2012 and 2013? Notice how neither of those years have happened? This is because President Obama's 2012 budget has made some pretty incredible claims.

To look at these claims with our feet on the ground, let's first look at a revenue chart.
RealRevenue.jpg

This is a chart that shows the increase and decrease of federal revenue changes over a 12 month collection period. We can see that recessions mean revenues decrease by as much as 15% year-to-year and that in boom times they can increase by a little over 10% year-to-year. The biggest increase we've ever seen was 12% year-to-year increase (from the 2004 fiscal year to the 2005 fiscal year).

Now this is the same chart including the revenue increases that the Obama budget proposal assumes will happen.
FantasyRevenue.jpg

Now that is some f***ing audacious hope right there.

The Obama budget assumes for the sake of future budget planning that we will blow 30 years of revenue data out of the water by clocking in a 21% revenue increase in 2012 and a 14% revenue increase in 2013. Then they assume things will "calm down" to a stable 7-8% annual increase, which is merely massive (as opposed to completely insane).

This is a particularly important point because the estimates that the Obama team made were not just optimistic. They assume we are on some kind of federal revenue breakthrough unheard in this generation.

The revenue assumptions in this budget proposal have sped right past optimism and into delusion.

For the sake of fixing this second chart, I am going to be incredibly generous and assume that we see 9% revenue growth over the next 4 years. This would be very good news for our deficit situation and is extremely unlikely. It is not, however, technically impossible, so we'll give some benefit of the doubt there.

31
AUG/11
11
Dear goodness, not again.

I had a nice healthy rant all written for this because people who use charts and data to lie piss me off and the self-righteous ones are the worst. But it detracted from this post, so if you want to, you can read it here. Not work that I'm proud of, but it's fun to write every once in a while.

There is a piece called "The Three Charts to E-Mail Your Right Wing Brother-In-Law" that is making the rounds and impressing many people who don't know too much about the underlying data. Which is almost everyone.

So lets dig into these charts and how we can fix them.

The first one is about Federal Spending and claims that "Bush Spending" saw an 88% increase while Obama spending has seen only a 7.2% increase.



The problems with this chart in no particular order:

These two charts assume that the entirety of the 2009 fiscal situation lies squarely on George W. Bush's shoulders. I would like to posit that this is unfair. There was a bill that got passed (you may have heard of it) that goes by the popular name "the stimulus". It started immediately spending vast sums of money starting in the fiscal year 2009. George W. Bush had nothing to do with this bill.

I did a little digging and found that the budget Bush proposed for 2009 was for $3.09 trillion while the amount spent during that fiscal year was $3.52 trillion. Now, this might not matter if these kinds of variations were common. But here is a graph of the difference between the proposed spending and the actual spending for the past 10 years. We're going to play a game called "one of these things is not like the others".



We can see that 2009 is a huge outlier... the difference between what was proposed and what was spent is 5 times more than any other year ( $429.1 billion).

Yep... that's what happens when you propose vast amounts of immediate spending in the middle of a fiscal year. Given that Bush had to sign the budget he was given by a Democratic Congress, I think it's charitable to say that he is "responsible" for what he proposed: the original $3.09 trillion.

This is a minor quibble, but it matters because it's a sign that the person who created the chart doesn't care about accuracy. Ignoring inflation will always make spending increases look drastic because we're compounding real increases with inflation increases. It also matters because, if we adjust for inflation and use Bush's last spending proposal, he increased spending by 39% or about 5% a year.

President Obama's budget proposal basically has us maintaining a stable level of spending until 2014, when it starts increasing drastically. The author chose not to chart this data, even though it was right there in front of him. Why? I assume it's because he's a partisan hack, but I'm not altogether prepared to rule out that he is, in fact, just an idiot.

By including these spending targets, we get a much more "apples to apples" comparison where we're comparing 8 years of "Bush spending" to 7 years of "Obama spending".

If we take all these problems and put them together, we end up with another chart altogether.



The second chart says that Bush increased the deficit and Obama is decreasing it.



First of all, the same "Bush is responsible for everything in FY2009" thing above applies here too. In addition to that:

I know that right wingers will maintain till their dying breath that tax cuts don't reduce revenue, they increase revenue. I'm not really in that camp and this is my blog, so I get to do things my way. So there.

According to CNN at the time, the stimulus was going to save the average household $1,179. Using the 2009 Census estimate of 112.6 million households, that comes out to $132.7 billion. If we add that to the $429 billion difference between Bush's spending proposal and the spending reality and then subtract that from the final deficit, we get a deficit of $894.4 billion.

$132.7 billion in stimulus tax cuts
+ $429.1 billion in un-planned spending
- $1,415.7 billion actual deficit
======================
$836.2 billion of the 2009 deficit that is "Bush's fault"

Notice how the chart goes down in 2012 and 2013? Notice how neither of those years have happened? This is because President Obama's 2012 budget has made some pretty incredible claims.

To look at these claims with our feet on the ground, let's first look at a revenue chart.



This is a chart that shows the increase and decrease of federal revenue changes over a 12 month collection period. We can see that recessions mean revenues decrease by as much as 15% year-to-year and that in boom times they can increase by a little over 10% year-to-year. The biggest increase we've ever seen was 12% year-to-year increase (from the 2004 fiscal year to the 2005 fiscal year).

Now this is the same chart including the revenue increases that the Obama budget proposal assumes will happen.



Now that is some f***ing audacious hope right there.

The Obama budget assumes for the sake of future budget planning that we will blow 30 years of revenue data out of the water by clocking in a 21% revenue increase in 2012 and a 14% revenue increase in 2013. Then they assume things will "calm down" to a stable 7-8% annual increase, which is merely massive (as opposed to completely insane).

This is a particularly important point because the estimates that the Obama team made were not just optimistic. They assume we are on some kind of federal revenue breakthrough unheard in this generation.

The revenue assumptions in this budget proposal have sped right past optimism and into delusion.

For the sake of fixing this second chart, I am going to be incredibly generous and assume that we see 9% revenue growth over the next 4 years. This would be very good news for our deficit situation and is extremely unlikely. It is not, however, technically impossible, so we'll give some benefit of the doubt there.

Accounting for these issues, assuming that we hit the spending targets we're aiming for (a big if but one I'm willing to let it slide) here is the second chart updated.





Permutations of this chart have been around for some time. President Obama's team first started using it in mid 2009 to promote the idea that the stimulus was working. It's actually the most honest of the charts here, but there are still some problems with it.

This makes things look a little better because we've been losing public sector jobs over the last year or two. I'm not saying "counting only private sector jobs is an invalid measurement". What I am saying is that it is a red flag that the person may be cherry-picking data to get the best result.

As for using establishment data instead of household survey data, there's nothing particularly wrong with that, but it is good to note that the household survey counts about 10 million more jobs and covers people who are employed but not on a payroll, so it will give a somewhat more complete picture of the employment situation. And, unsurprisingly, the data doesn't look quite as good for Obama. It's not particularly bad... it's just "meh".

But the funniest thing about this chart? The author has spent the last 2 charts convincing us that EVERYTHING that happened in the 2009 fiscal year was Bush's fault. In this chart, the tune has changed entirely because, if the author gave Bush credit to the end of the 2009 fiscal year, it would look like Bush saved the day. The most drastic reductions in job loss would then fall under the "Bush's fault" umbrella.

And we can't have that. When it comes to a choice between honest consistency and making George W. Bush look bad, the author didn't even blink. So, in a move that is so dishonest is is actually funny, the chart author basically says, "All jobs saved are due to President Obama and his courageous stimulus, but I blame George W. Bush for all the stimulus spending and stimulus tax cuts that created those jobs."

I created a alternate version of this chart that represents my complaints listed above, but I want to make note that, while I feel the previous "fixes" are a better representation of reality, this chart is not nearly as fair as those were. I personally prefer the BLS household data (which I used in this chart) over the payroll data (which the original chart author used), but I'm not comfortable giving Bush credit for stopping job losses 9 months after he left office. I'm representing it this way only because I want to give an indication of how the author would have done it if he or she maintained an internal consistency.

The rest of the article:http://www.politicalmathblog.com/
 
Re: New Obama Care Law Requires Large Insurers To Justify Big Rate Increases Take Eff

Mismatch: Lee Doren vs. some dumb chart “proving” Obama’s stimulus worked
This is Lee Doren’s latest YouTube video, in which he debunks a misleading chart that’s been floating around online lately which absurdly claims to prove that Obama’s stimulus had something other than a catastrophic effect on employment.



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:lol::lol::lol:
You are really, really bad at this and you pick people who are just as bad.
I was hoping this was going to be something good and it wasn't.
Of course job losses at a 700k/month clip had to end eventually but the jobs didn't start coming back until the Recovery Act was in effect. Just as Republicans like to say you can't prove a negative (it would have been worse if not for the stimulus package) with Democrats, you can't do it for your side either (the stimulus had no effect and this would have happened anyway).

It should have been bigger and even more targeted to infrastructure.

If it's such a "job killer" why were the so many Republicans, many of whom are running for the Presidency, openly begging for the money and citing how many jobs it would create in their district? If a law that I thought would negatively impact my district was passed, I wouldn't want it and I definitely wouldn't beg for it.
 
Re: New Obama Care Law Requires Large Insurers To Justify Big Rate Increases Take Eff

No matter what is said against Obama you will defend him to death. So you don't think his policies are a direct link to the high employment rate? Over 16% alone in the black community who supported him with over 96% of their vote? Even blacks who call into local talk radio in my area are sick of the speeches.
 
Re: New Obama Care Law Requires Large Insurers To Justify Big Rate Increases Take Eff

No matter what is said against Obama you will defend him to death. So you don't think his policies are a direct link to the high employment rate? Over 16% alone in the black community who supported him with over 96% of their vote? Even blacks who call into local talk radio in my area are sick of the speeches.

And no matter what the facts you will attack him to the death.

The unemployment rate took a drastic turn before he was President and continued before he implemented one policy so how is he responsible for that.
You will never hear an argument from an intelligent person who thinks he hasn't made mistakes, either through what he did or what he didn't do, but the act seems to be "We were going fine until the Evil Obama came by and fu-ked it up with his Stimulus package" and that's just untrue.

I asked you a question in another thread and you either missed it or ducked it but since I have your attention, here it is again: Which Republican candidate has seriously addressed Black unemployment?

My other question you missed (or ducked) is in this thread:
If it's such a "job killer" why were the so many Republicans, many of whom are running for the Presidency, openly begging for the money and citing how many jobs it would create in their district? If a law that I thought would negatively impact my district was passed, I wouldn't want it and I definitely wouldn't beg for it.
 
Re: New Obama Care Law Requires Large Insurers To Justify Big Rate Increases Take Eff

And no matter what the facts you will attack him to the death.

The unemployment rate took a drastic turn before he was President and continued before he implemented one policy so how is he responsible for that.
You will never hear an argument from an intelligent person who thinks he hasn't made mistakes, either through what he did or what he didn't do, but the act seems to be "We were going fine until the Evil Obama came by and fu-ked it up with his Stimulus package" and that's just untrue....


Upgrade Dave some peeps are so entrenched and immovable in their version of reality that facts-be-dammed they will cling to the lies until their deaths. War criminal Dick Cheney’s new book is a reminder of these type of sick sociopaths. Here is a guy who is already ‘dead’, no heart beat or pulse, he’s a cyborg with a battery powered blood pumping device, pumping cold blood through his circulatory system and yet we get no mea culpa from him about anything he did during his 40 years in government. According to ‘darth cheney’ he made no mistakes. In fact he says we should of bombed Syria and started another war with Iran. In contrast when Bob McNamara one of the architects of the Vietnam war, where over 58,000 American men needlessly died, wrote his memoirs, he-came-clean about his mistakes and the needless deaths of thousands of Americans.

Peeps who are using revisionist history to attempt to pump life into the corpse of the cheney—BuShit presidency are just like cheney —they are the walking dead.

Let us use BuShit himself to explain how to reach the walking dead.




The autopsy on BuShit is more than 32 months old. Only the walking dead WOULD NOT acknowledge that he handed off to President Obama an United States of America that was on fire and sinking into toxic quicksand. When you really put serious pressure on one of these RepubliKlan walking dead about what Obama should of done when BuShit handed him the grenade with the pin pulled, they say he should of done nothing, no $800 billion stimulus, no loan to GM & Chrysler, no health care. They say the economy would of gradually healed itself and he should of temporarily cut corporate taxes and capital gains taxes to ZERO and then raise both of them back to 15% after the crisis passed. Wow!! Talk about not giving a damn about 99% of all Americans.

For the umpteenth time let us review the BuShit record. Most of the data below has been posted before.


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Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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- Albert Einstein -

Peeps get out of the forest full of giant California redwood trees so that you can actually see the sky. Squabbling about the micro economic minutiae that the media of mass distraction keeps most people focused on, obscures the giant macro economic reality that the oligarchs who own 90% of the media don’t want you to focus on.

Since Clinton repealed Glass-Steagall in 1999 and the US Justice Department under Clinton’s guy Joel Klein refused to indict and prosecute any serious antitrust cases— except the Microsoft case — the ‘business elites’-the oligarchs, have taken over the United States of America.

Under Clinton’s neoliberal economic policies, although the private economic sector pretty much got whatever they wanted — (low interest rates, lowered capital gains taxes from 28% to 20% in 1997) — there was still a scintilla of economic nationalism (America First) ethos.

This all ended with the appointment of BuShit in year 2000, by a 5-4 ruling by SCOTUS. Completely negating one-man one-vote, SCOTUS put the dagger into the heart of the United State’s Democratic Republic, ripping a stab wound into the heart of E Pluribus Unum that we haven’t recovered from to this day, 2011.

The BuShits made the decision before the 911 attacks to loot the US Treasury, privatize as much of the US Government jobs economy as possible, kill unions, stop enforcing labor laws that protected workers, completely end any anti-trust prosecutions, all — for the economic benefit of their supporters.
OUTSOURCING of the US job base to China, India, Singapore, Ireland, Burma, Mexico, etc. – was put on steroids.

Domestically based formerly middle class jobs like meat packers (cutters) — were de- unionized— the white male workers fired— and they were replaced, primarily by immigrant Mexican women who are paid a fraction of the replaced white male workers; with no benefits.

During this bloodletting of the American middle class, the corporate media of mass distraction never told the American people what was going on. The opposition party- the Democrats- stood silent, especially after 911, paralyzed by the whole “war-on-terror” conflagration.

BuShit lowered the capital gains rate down to 15%, cut the top personal income tax rate down to 36%, ended prosecution of firms who were caught breaking the law,

planted fake news stories in the press —PROPAGANDA

fired Government employees like “Bunnatine "Bunny" Greenhouse” who told the truth about BuShits THEFT of taxpayer monies

The BuShits perpetual violation of established US laws and customs continued with impunity throughout their time in office.

Below is a video of Alan Greenspan receiving a withering verbal bombast of reality from Senator Bernie Sanders in 2003. Listen to what he says about the BuShit economy. It’s all 1000% true. I posted this and I decoded Greenspans Bullshit answer on September 2010. The repost is below

Play the video below of now US senator Bernie Sanders confronting former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan’s bold face lies as Greenspan was testifying in front of a congressional committee.

[FLASH]http://www.youtube.com/v/rPh-qGcYruw&amp;hl=en_GB&amp;fs=1[/FLASH]

Keep in mind this exchange occurred several years ago before the economy cratered & imploded in 2008. Everything senator Bernie Sanders said was 100% on point. Listen carefully to Greenspan’s cynical response to the litany of facts senator Sanders hits him with. Greenspan cannot counter what senator Sanders says.

Greenspan says:<blockquote>
“Major focus of monetary policy is to create an environment in this country which enables capital investment and innovation to advance, we are at the cutting edge of technologies in the world, we are doing an extraordinary job over the years and people flock to the United States, our immigration rates are very high and why, because they think this is a wonderful country to come to.”</blockquote>
Let me interpret Greenspan’s bull speak. What he essentially has said is that the US economy is being run for the benefit of big corporations not working class US citizens.

He said <i>”major focus of monetary policy is to create an environment in this country which enables capital investment and innovation to advance </i> That means outsourcing of jobs to China, India, Indonesia, Singapore etc. That means increased productivity.

When you hear the business report on the news talk about increased productivity and celebrate any increase, what does that really mean? It means that corporations are making more money by squeezing more work out of their remaining workers - (more hours worked, less vacation time, decrease in employee benefits etc.) - as they shed thousands of workers.

His comment about flocking immigrants is even more insulting to American workers. Flocking immigrants depress wages for US workers many who have spent $100,000 or more getting the college education they were told would solidify their path to the middle class & higher.

As it is said , a picture is worth a thousand words; The graph below throws into stark relief what the BuShit policies have meant for working class US citizens.

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There has been ZERO net job creation in the USA since December 1999.
</span>

Who controlled the United States macro economic policy with Greenspan at the Federal Reserve during the last decade?? BuShits!

READ:http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/01/AR2010010101196.html


As I’ve pointed out in other threads, the ‘business elites’ — the oligarchs, HAVE NO INTENTION , of hiring millions of Americans and paying them ‘living wages’ much less middle class wages with benefits.

They have outsourced as many jobs as they can overseas to places where they can pay a maximum of $300 per month for a six day work week with NO benefits.

BLS statistics are meaningless right now. They are counting people who work as little as one hour a week as being employed. The real unemployment number is 25%. There is a one year wait to get a job with the US military. I’ll post the madison ave. white paper when I get a chance. It tells advertisers to don’t bother advertising to people who make less than $90,000 a year, because their (lower & median middle class income, is not coming back.

Federal tax revenue is at a 55 year low. Obama wants to raise the capital gains back to 20% and raise the top personal income tax rate back to 39.6% and the top 1% want to kill him if they could. 60% of the US budget deficit is the BuShit tax cuts.

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As far as job creation under BuShit. Why do we have to go over this, the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

What did the autopsy report conclude about job creation during 8 years of BuShit? Let’s get our answer from that socialist- Marxist newspaper owned by that communist who also owns <s>FOX</s> FAKE News, named Rupert Murdoch – The Wall Street Journal

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READ:Bush On Jobs: The Worst Track Record On Record!!

The communist manifesto journal article points out that

BuShit created 3 Millions jobs over eight years
Clinton created 23 Million jobs over eight years


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Among the professional non-political top economists and top money managers, if you ask them how the United States got into the economic crisis we are in, the answer is unanimous — the culprit was the BuShit gang.

Top economist Dr. Nouriel Roubini talks to the Wall Street Journal on August 11th 2011 about how the BuShits are responsible for the fractured US economy.

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Re: New Obama Care Law Requires Large Insurers To Justify Big Rate Increases Take Eff

I got screwed out of my open enrollment period and looked at health insurance rates. I would be better off getting my own policy based on what I was paying, the rates aren't bad plus there is a pre-existing policy that can be had real cheap because of the law. I like having the personal freedom to choose what I want on the market that fits my situation...

Better off with employers not providing insurance when Health Care Reform take effect.
 
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Re: New Obama Care Law Requires Large Insurers To Justify Big Rate Increases Take Eff

January US jobs lost: 598,000 jobs
February US jobs lost: 706,000 jobs
March US jobs lost: 742,000 jobs
April US jobs lost: 545,000 jobs
May US jobs lost: 345,000 jobs
June US jobs lost: 467,000 jobs
July US jobs lost: 247,000 jobs
August US jobs lost: 216,000 jobs
September US jobs lost: 263,000 jobs
October US jobs lost: 190,000 jobs
November US jobs lost: 11,000 jobs
December US jobs lost: 85,000 jobs
January US jobs lost: 20,000
February US jobs lost: 30,000
March US jobs lost: -162,000
April US jobs lost: -290,000
May US jobs lost: -431,000
June US jobs lost: 125,000
July US jobs lost: 131,000
August US jobs lost: 54,000
September US jobs lost: 95,000
October US jobs lost: -151,000
November US jobs lost: -39,000
December US jobs lost: -103,000
January US jobs lost: -36,000
February US jobs lost: -196,000
March US jobs lost: -216,000
April US jobs lost: -244,000
May US jobs lost: -54,000
June US jobs lost: -18,000
July US jobs lost: -117,000
August US jobs lost: 0
Total US jobs lost under Obama: 2,813,000 jobs

To be fair and accurate, the Recovery Act didn't wasn't passed until mid Febuary so March would be the first month of it so January (when Bush was President for more than half the month) and Febuary (when no Obama policies were in place) should actually count. With that, the actuall number of job losses is 1,509,000 with most of those happening in the early months of his term.

The Health care industry added 30k jobs according to a article posted by Gunner so I don't know how they can say the health issurance reform bill is "job killing".
 
Re: New Obama Care Law Requires Large Insurers To Justify Big Rate Increases Take Eff

To be fair and accurate, the Recovery Act didn't wasn't passed until mid Febuary so March would be the first month of it so January (when Bush was President for more than half the month) and Febuary (when no Obama policies were in place) should actually count. With that, the actuall number of job losses is 1,509,000 with most of those happening in the early months of his term.

The Health care industry added 30k jobs according to a article posted by Gunner so I don't know how they can say the health issurance reform bill is "job killing".

Dies he say how many jobs were created?

BTW, notice how clever (or not so) they list as - jobs lost. Obviously they don't want to admit those were created.
 
Re: New Obama Care Law Requires Large Insurers To Justify Big Rate Increases Take Eff

Dies he say how many jobs were created?

BTW, notice how clever (or not so) they list as - jobs lost. Obviously they don't want to admit those were created.

I did. I had to read it a couple times to figure out what was wrong with it.

Yes, he does say how many jobs were created but tried to act like he didn't.
 
Re: New Obama Care Law Requires Large Insurers To Justify Big Rate Increases Take Eff

If you are a running back and you gain five yards, the the next play you lose five. You blow your knee out. Your stats in the record books is -5. Which is fricken zero.

LOL. But you, coach, asked the running back to take a knee on that second play.

Remember: you said government needs to get smaller !

:smh:

. . . and, you want to add to the President's unemployment figures over 2 million first quarter 09 job losses that you know damn well were incurred or set in force under the prior administration. You see, those are the kinds of see-through, playground tricks that make your credibility, fricken zero.

trix.jpg
 
Re: New Obama Care Law Requires Large Insurers To Justify Big Rate Increases Take Eff

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I just stopped by this thread to check out the conversation. THEN I saw this video. This has got to be the STUPIDEST video I have seen on the subject. Not only did he completely oversimplify the topic, but he also completely ignored the RED BARS (Bush) on the left side.

Ah forget it :smh:
 
Re: New Obama Care Law Requires Large Insurers To Justify Big Rate Increases Take Eff

I just stopped by this thread to check out the conversation. THEN I saw this video. This has got to be the STUPIDEST video I have seen on the subject. Not only did he completely oversimplify the topic, but he also completely ignored the RED BARS (Bush) on the left side.

Ah forget it :smh:

Don't forget it. Explain it ! ! !
 
Re: New Obama Care Law Requires Large Insurers To Justify Big Rate Increases Take Eff

Don't forget it. Explain it ! ! !

If I'm correct, the overall point in the video is that the monthly metric does not take into account the total jobs lost. For example, if 1 person was counted as losing their job in September, that same person couldn't be counted again in October.

So far so good

So to his point, a lower bar only indicates less jobs were lost for that month. No gains are mentioned, which means people are still unemployed, which to him means no accomplishment. Which is mostly TRUE... HOWEVER.

He doesn't mention the BLATANTLY OBVIOUS TREND that is being illustrated in that chart. From the end of Bush's turn, job loss was plummeting with absolutely no sign of letting up. It was so bad in fact, that the first few months of Obama being sworn into office, the trend continued.

When Obama began implementing policies, the downward trend stopped, and an upward trend began. If the purpose of the chart was to illustrate how many jobs were created once Obama implemented the stimulus. Then this guy would be absolutely right. But thats not the case here. Job loss was an ongoing trend that was stopped when Obama took action. The public sector didn't just suddenly say "hey that was fun, now lets stop firing all our employees and get back to work". That was done by steps taken by Obama's administration.

So maybe he only sees job creation as an accomplishment. But I personally believe stopping a free-fall trend is huge.
 
Re: New Obama Care Law Requires Large Insurers To Justify Big Rate Increases Take Eff

He doesn't mention the BLATANTLY OBVIOUS TREND that is being illustrated in that chart. From the end of Bush's turn, job loss was plummeting with absolutely no sign of letting up. It was so bad in fact, that the first few months of Obama being sworn into office, the trend continued.

When Obama began implementing policies, the downward trend stopped, and an upward trend began. If the purpose of the chart was to illustrate how many jobs were created once Obama implemented the stimulus. Then this guy would be absolutely right. But thats not the case here. Job loss was an ongoing trend that was stopped when Obama took action. The public sector didn't just suddenly say "hey that was fun, now lets stop firing all our employees and get back to work". That was done by steps taken by Obama's administration.

So maybe he only sees job creation as an accomplishment. But I personally believe stopping a free-fall trend is huge.

:yes:
 
Re: New Obama Care Law Requires Large Insurers To Justify Big Rate Increases Take Eff

If I'm correct, the overall point in the video is that the monthly metric does not take into account the total jobs lost. For example, if 1 person was counted as losing their job in September, that same person couldn't be counted again in October.

So far so good

So to his point, a lower bar only indicates less jobs were lost for that month. No gains are mentioned, which means people are still unemployed, which to him means no accomplishment. Which is mostly TRUE... HOWEVER.

He doesn't mention the BLATANTLY OBVIOUS TREND that is being illustrated in that chart. From the end of Bush's turn, job loss was plummeting with absolutely no sign of letting up. It was so bad in fact, that the first few months of Obama being sworn into office, the trend continued.

When Obama began implementing policies, the downward trend stopped, and an upward trend began. If the purpose of the chart was to illustrate how many jobs were created once Obama implemented the stimulus. Then this guy would be absolutely right. But thats not the case here. Job loss was an ongoing trend that was stopped when Obama took action. The public sector didn't just suddenly say "hey that was fun, now lets stop firing all our employees and get back to work". That was done by steps taken by Obama's administration.

So maybe he only sees job creation as an accomplishment. But I personally believe stopping a free-fall trend is huge.

Thanks. Well said.
 
Re: New Obama Care Law Requires Large Insurers To Justify Big Rate Increases Take Eff


Due to a RepubliKlan peep perpetually continuing a failing attempt to proffer the asinine notion that the 8 year BuShit economic record was anything but an unmitigated catastrophic failure, with damaging repercussions that will take at least a decade to recover from; this thread took a diversion from its stated topic about why soaring U.S. health care cost must be curbed.

The facts are not difficult….but…..you would never know that the facts are so boldly comprehensible because everyone including those who want to change the current system (like President Obama) have failed to simply explain to the American people how fucked up the current system is.

Health care costs are 18% of U.S. GDP (Gross Domestic Product) as of 2009, a cost of $2.5 trillion, the highest percentage in the OECD countries (the developed world)

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The United States is the only OECD country that relies primarily on private insurance for healthcare financing and therefore has (as of June 2011) a whopping 58 million of it’s population uninsured.

Just like ALL THE OTHER OECD countries you have to take the profit motive out of basic healthcare. Even in Switzerland, the country with the highest per capita number of citizens who are millionaires; for profit basic healthcare is forbidden.

In Switzerland healthcare companies are private non-profit corporations, regulated by the Swiss government. There is no greater capitalist country than Switzerland. For them it’s all about ‘the money’. They were Hitler’s bankers. All the money and gold the Nazi’s stole from the Jews and others went into Swiss banks. Hitler did not invade Switzerland as he ruthlessly conquered Europe. The Swiss know what greed is.

What most clueless American citizens don’t realize is that a single payer or not-for-profit basic health care system does not preclude your ability, to go to the private doctor of your choice or purchase additional private health insurance if you have the money.

What a single payer or not-for-profit basic health care system does is provide all Americans basic health care coverage so that 58 million Americans would not be uninsured and skip going to a doctor for years.

Would anybody lose if the healthcare system that every other OECD country uses were implemented here??

Yes. The losers would be the “Health Care Mafia” corporations- those rapacious middle men — between — us and our doctors, who decide who lives and who dies while they stack $$$$$$$$$$$$$ billions. I documented their ruthless business practices HERE

Below is a 5 year chart of an ETF (exchange traded fund) that consist of a top group of “Health Care Mafia” companies, such as ,UnitedHealth Group Inc., Humana Inc., WellPoint Inc., etc. The fund is 46% Health Care Providers & Services and 25% Health Care Equipment & Supplies and the rest of the fund is Pharmaceutical companies like Pfizer.

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We are in the deepest recession since the 1930’s. Due to massive unemployment and under-employment the amount of people paying monthly premiums to the “Health Care Mafia” through their employer or individually is at a record low.

The amount of uninsured Americans is at a record high- 58 million. So one would think that the “Health Care Mafia” is experiencing a slowdown or a loss in profits? No, not at all. The chart shows as overlay (the red line) of the S&P 500 versus the PTH health care ETF. As you can see PTH fully recovered to the 2007 highs and in fact exceeded the 2007 highs, while the S&P which is a proxy for the entire stock market has yet to make a new high. The "Health Care Mafia" is doing just $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ fine.

With Obama’s health care plan which has some very good reforms……but……no cost control hammer (public option, medicare buy-in, single payer) the “Health Care Mafia” is making more money than ever, still raising premiums, and still fighting any cost control regulations.

Where are we headed if the “Health Care Mafia’ companies are not regulated as they are in every other OECD country. 20% of U.S. GDP (Gross Domestic Product) or 25% of U.S. GDP (Gross Domestic Product) or 30% of U.S. GDP (Gross Domestic Product) while other OECD countries spend 51% less and have their entire population covered with basic coverage.

So in less than 700 words I just told you what Obama, the Democrats, the RepubliKlans, the corporate television media has not told the American people in the last 3 years of this national health care debate. The current system is unsustainable…….and……..yes…….some capitalist will make less money as the U.S. migrates to a sustainable and less barbaric system.

Civilization or Barbarism?

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Re: New Obama Care Law Requires Large Insurers To Justify Big Rate Increases Take Eff

Wait just a minute - I like to build an argument from facts presented. So - does anyone dispute that this is a bad provision of the health care law. Let's just deal with this so we never can ever say the health care bill is bull shit or totally evil or is un-American.

So at the very least, one provision is noteworthy and prevents a pure rape of the middle class and working people.

Misdirection shall not dictate the course of discussion.
 
Re: New Obama Care Law Requires Large Insurers To Justify Big Rate Increases Take Eff

Wait just a minute - I like to build an argument from facts presented.

Always! a good place to start.

So - does anyone dispute that this is a bad provision of the health care law. Let's just deal with this so we never can ever say the health care bill is bull shit or totally evil or is un-American.

So that I am clear, which provision specifically are you referring to and what makes it good/bad ?

just trying to avoid (self) misdirection.
 
Re: New Obama Care Law Requires Large Insurers To Justify Big Rate Increases Take Eff

I was simply responding to Gunner's response regarding regulation = job killer as the first response to this thread (probably should have put that out there first by quoting) rather than dealing with this provision and its potential. Muckraker did a much better job that I could do -laying out the importance of curbing healthcare hikes/rates moving forward. Will it work? Who knows but at least its a start at oversight.
 
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