Wrestling Fans be honest

[dirtyd]

Is the savage/steamboat match at wrestlemania 3 a bit overrated. I've heard my friens say how it was perfect, and how could it not be when savage had them rehearse it a hundred times.

I'm not saying it isn't good but i think the atmosphere made it better than it really was. I mean taker/hbk at wm 25 was leaps and bounds better than savage/steamboat.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

It's a great, great match and definitely stole the show at WMIII but yeah, it's a little overrated. But the scope of the show and the atmosphere give it extra umph. But here in Charlotte and the old Mid-Atlantic territory, we got matches better than that out of Steamboat all the time so when I first saw it I was a little underwhelmed. I did understand though that WWF fans at that point were still conditioned to watch a slower style of wrestling.

 

[marcusfenix]

for me personally i think it lived up to the era of which it took place...both wrestlers went all out and gave a great performance...well this is coming from a huge Randy Savage fan so see my bias

 

[TimRock]

was this before or after savaged hit steamboat in the throat with the bell of the top tunrbuckle?

 

[xspade7]

Give me Flair/Steamboat series from the 80's in NWA.

 

[dirtyd]

was this before or after savaged hit steamboat in the throat with the bell of the top tunrbuckle?

After

 

[dirtyd]

Give me Flair/Steamboat series from the 80's in NWA.

Everybody went nuts at the hall of fame when they locked up on stage.

 

[Deltronz]

Is the savage/steamboat match at wrestlemania 3 a bit overrated. I've heard my friens say how it was perfect, and how could it not be when savage had them rehearse it a hundred times.

I'm not saying it isn't good but i think the atmosphere made it better than it really was. I mean taker/hbk at wm 25 was leaps and bounds better than savage/steamboat.

In truth, you have to understand that without this match there WOULDN'T BE Taker/HBK at WM25. As it stands, Savage/Steamboat is a 5 star affair when you consider ALL FACTORS of the match. HBK/Taker is a 4 1/2 star affair (possibly 4 3/4 stars) since that match has at least one very noticeable blown spot. Plus, as tight as the psychology for HBK/Taker was, Steamboat/Savage had even BETTER psychology.

It's always the younger generation not appreciating the older matches that set the landscape.

What's next? Citizen Kane is overrated and not better than the new Star Trek movie?

Oh wait

 

[Deltronz]

was this before or after savaged hit steamboat in the throat with the bell of the top tunrbuckle?

Afterwards. The build up to this match was at least arguebly the best in all of professional wrestling.

 

[dirtyd]

In truth, you have to understand that without this match there WOULDN'T BE Taker/HBK at WM25. As it stands, Savage/Steamboat is a 5 star affair when you consider ALL FACTORS of the match. HBK/Taker is a 4 1/2 star affair (possibly 4 3/4 stars) since that match has at least one very noticeable blown spot. Plus, as tight as the psychology for HBK/Taker was, Steamboat/Savage had even BETTER psychology.

It's always the younger generation not appreciating the older matches that set the landscape.

What's next? Citizen Kane is overrated and not better than the new Star Trek movie?

Oh wait

All the great matches have blown spots i.e (Hart vs Austin wm13) It's just my opinon that savage/steamboat is overrated. I remember ricky saying it drove hom crazy how much savage wanted to rehearse the match, because ricky is a improv type wrestler.

I said the atomsphere made it better than it was just like rock/hogan, it's not about appreciating the match because i do. It's about asking a question and seeing how people respond.

 

[Deltronz]

All the great matches have blown spots i.e (Hart vs Austin wm13) It's just my opinon that savage/steamboat is overrated. I remember ricky saying it drove hom crazy how much savage wanted to rehearse the match, because ricky is a improv type wrestler.

I said the atomsphere made it better than it was just like rock/hogan, it's not about appreciating the match because i do. It's about asking a question and seeing how people respond.

My point still stands. Steamboat/Savage was a flawless match that influenced all the matches that you mentioned. You may like other matches more. That's fine. It's still a greater match however.

 

[formallyDaRedOne]

this is when writers could write and wrestlers could wrestle.....

5 stars!

 

[Rollie_Fingaz]

Yes it is.

The NWA (with Ric Flair as champ) was doing stuff that was miles better than what the WWF was doing. It's just that every match on that card (including Hogan/Andre) was not that good. Steamboat/Savage was an above great match on a lackluster card.

All the great matches have blown spots i.e (Hart vs Austin wm13)

Steamboat/Flair didn't. Which is why they are considered the greatest matches in wrestling.

I remember ricky saying it drove hom crazy how much savage wanted to rehearse the match, because ricky is a improv type wrestler.

Hogan said that Savage was a detail freak that left nothing to chance which is why the match with Warrior was considered Warriors best match.

 

[Deltronz]

Yes it is.

The NWA (with Ric Flair as champ) was doing stuff that was miles better than what the WWF was doing. It's just that every match on that card (including Hogan/Andre) was not that good. Steamboat/Savage was an above great match on a lackluster card.

Certainly most people who consider themselves wrestling fans would disagree with you on that. WM3 is certainly not a workrate card (That I agree with for a lot of that show), but not every match needs to be in order to have a great card (which WM3 certainly was).

And you're seriously underrating how epic Steamboat/Savage is in your statement (and this is coming from a big fan of the three big card Steamboat/Flair matches). There is a reason why over 20 years later that match is still cited.

Their 3rd big card encounter (Steamboat/Flair) was their best in my opinion (more psychology than their first, better pacing than their hour long 2nd battle). One thing I did enjoy more about Savage/Steamboat over even the 3rd Steamboat/Flair encounter was the psychology of the match was quite a bit better, mainly because Flair had very on-and-off ring psychology compared to Savage's ALWAYS ON psychology. Steamboat is Steamboat regardless though, so he can't be faulted either way you go. Furthermore, the build-up leading into Savage/Steamboat's match was much better than that of the Steamboat/Flair matches, but I'm not sure you're old enough to have watched the build-up leading into the match (or maybe just relied on a few clips WWE puts together nowadays). In either event, regardless of which match you "enjoy" more, Steamboat/Savage is a classic match in terms of EVERYTHING that makes great matches great

 

[Rollie_Fingaz]

Certainly most people who consider themselves wrestling fans would disagree with you on that. WM3 is certainly not a workrate card (That I agree with for a lot of that show), but not every match needs to be in order to have a great card (which WM3 certainly was).

And you're seriously underrating how epic Steamboat/Savage is in your statement (and this is coming from a big fan of the three big card Steamboat/Flair matches). There is a reason why over 20 years later that match is still cited.

Their 3rd big card encounter (Steamboat/Flair) was their best in my opinion (more psychology than their first, better pacing than their hour long 2nd battle). One thing I did enjoy more about Savage/Steamboat over even the 3rd Steamboat/Flair encounter was the psychology of the match was quite a bit better, mainly because Flair had very on-and-off ring psychology compared to Savage's ALWAYS ON psychology. Steamboat is Steamboat regardless though, so he can't be faulted either way you go. Furthermore, the build-up leading into Savage/Steamboat's match was much better than that of the Steamboat/Flair matches, but I'm not sure you're old enough to have watched the build-up leading into the match (or maybe just relied on a few clips WWE puts together nowadays). In either event, regardless of which match you "enjoy" more, Steamboat/Savage is a classic match in terms of EVERYTHING that makes great matches great

My dude, age has nothing to do with it. (I'm probably older than you think.) I've watched A LOT of wrestling (including most of the territories like AWA, WCCW/Global and UWF)

I didn't even think that was Savages' best Wrestlemania match. I personally thought Savage/Flair was comparable if not better and even Savage/Warrior was decent. (Both matches told a good story and had a lead up to the match that was just as good.)

What made the Savage/Steamboat match good was that they were allowed to have an old school 'Southern" style bout with lots of near falls. But to say it was one of the best matches of all time is blowing it out of proportion. Flair was having 5 star matches Barry Windham and Magnum TA during this same time.

BTW-That Wrestlemania III card was hot garbage. It only had two good matches on it. (Savage/Steamboat and Bulldogs/Santana vs. the Harts and Danny Davis.) I know..I ordered it.

 

[BoRiCuApOwEr]

That match was a classic but I was only 8 years old and at that point I was open off anything wrestling:
Superstars
Wrestling challenge
Wrestling spotlight
Prime time wrestling
Saturday nights main event(I loved this show)
All NWA AWA WWC
Shyt Im from NYC but I could've swore before the home shopping
network ch 68 they used to have wrestling

 

[Deltronz]

My dude, age has nothing to do with it. (I'm probably older than you think.) I've watched A LOT of wrestling (including most of the territories like AWA, WCCW/Global and UWF)

I didn't even think that was Savages' best Wrestlemania match. I personally thought Savage/Flair was comparable if not better and even Savage/Warrior was decent. (Both matches told a good story and had a lead up to the match that was just as good.)

What made the Savage/Steamboat match good was that they were allowed to have an old school 'Southern" style bout with lots of near falls. But to say it was one of the best matches of all time is blowing it out of proportion. Flair was having 5 star matches Barry Windham and Magnum TA during this same time.

BTW-That Wrestlemania III card was hot garbage. It only had two good matches on it. (Savage/Steamboat and Bulldogs/Santana vs. the Harts and Danny Davis.) I know..I ordered it.

You think WMIII was hot garbage, that's fine. Most wrestling fans would disagree with you, but you're entitled to your opinion. It's not my favorite WM, but I certainly recognize it as a great show. I too grew up watching many NWA territories, WCCW, WWF, AJPW, and NJPW growing up. So, like you, my opinion is based on watching lots of different styles of wrestling (from the 80s until now).

Savage/Flair from WM8 was great, and I would even go so far to say that was among Savage's top 5 best matches (maybe #5), but I wouldn't put it up with Steamboat/Savage since that told an even better story, Savage hadn't bulked up with roids yet (you'll notice, he is slower in his movements so he didn't get around quite as gracefully, and Steamboat/Savage had a better finish (so much better in fact, that it has been copied since then). Why do you think wrestlers (many of whom never worked in the WWE) cite it as one of the best, if not the best, wrestling match of all time? Did so many of them simply not watch NWA back on the day? No, it's because the match was perfect in everyway, had an incredible build up, and featured 2 of the top wrestlers in their prime. Furthermore, many wrestling fans acknowledge Steamboat/Flair as one of the greatest wrestling feuds, but usually rank Savage/Steamboat above that if we're talking a single match. If calling Steamboat/Savage from WM3 one of the greatest of all time is "blowing it out of proportion," then many magazines hyping up it's greatness, wrestlers who were inspired by it growing up, and those who still today carry over elements from it into their matches have been fooling themselves for over 20 years.

In regards to Warrior/Savage from WM7, it was certainly Warrior's best match, but no where NEAR as good as Steamboat/Savage if for no better reason Steamboat's offense was quite a bit better than Warrior's ever was, even nowadays. No fault of Savage's, since he worked a miracle carrying Warrior to a great match.

But at this point this is like comparing Godfather to Godfather II. Maybe you like Godfather more, I like Godfather II more. Either way, they're both classics. In the case with Steamboat/Savage, it has been referenced so many times that it can't NOT be classic at this point.

 

[Simply Sickenin']

That match was definitely the best one of the night. Maybe the greatest of that era. But I guess in the large scale of things, you could call it a little overrated.

It still beats out almost everything they've put out in last the last five years .... expect Undertaker/HBK of course

​

 

[kanedagame]

i watched the savage/steamboat match again the other night. it still beats most wwe stuff. steamboat/flair was better IMO. HBK/Taker was the best wwe match i've seen in a good while.

 

[Deltronz]

That match was definitely the best one of the night. Maybe the greatest of that era. But I guess in the large scale of things, you could call it a little overrated.

It still beats out almost everything they've put out in last the last five years .... expect Undertaker/HBK of course

​

I think Savage/Steamboat's longevity is more than proven and tested at this point (over 20 years and it's STILL being referenced). For that reason Undertaker/HBK from the last WM really can't see it at this point, although it is newwer and feels "fresher." But will it have the longevity? I guess we'll find out in 20 years...when Steamboat/Savage is likely to STILL be reference 40 years from now.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Their 3rd big card encounter (Steamboat/Flair) was their best in my opinion (more psychology than their first, better pacing than their hour long 2nd battle). One thing I did enjoy more about Savage/Steamboat over even the 3rd Steamboat/Flair encounter was the psychology of the match was quite a bit better, mainly because Flair had very on-and-off ring psychology compared to Savage's ALWAYS ON psychology. Steamboat is Steamboat regardless though, so he can't be faulted either way you go. Furthermore, the build-up leading into Savage/Steamboat's match was much better than that of the Steamboat/Flair matches, but I'm not sure you're old enough to have watched the build-up leading into the match (or maybe just relied on a few clips WWE puts together nowadays). In either event, regardless of which match you "enjoy" more, Steamboat/Savage is a classic match in terms of EVERYTHING that makes great matches great

This is where we part ways, Del. Steamboat/Flair 3 at WrestleWar is noticeably better than Steamboat/Savage at WM3. The part abourt Flair being on and off with his psychology is hugely debatable.
The build up may have been better but that had more to do with outside factors than the wrestlers. Crockett Promotions were transitioning with the sale to WCW and it was Flair's idea to bring in Steamboat to hold the company over while they got their ducks in a row.
The fact that Flair and Steamboat called their match in the ring as opposed to rehearsing, the clean finish, and the fact that they worked a longer match makes the Music City Showdown match the better of the two.

 

[Deltronz]

This is where we part ways, Del. Steamboat/Flair 3 at WrestleWar is noticeably better than Steamboat/Savage at WM3. The part abourt Flair being on and off with his psychology is hugely debatable.
The build up may have been better but that had more to do with outside factors than the wrestlers. Crockett Promotions were transitioning with the sale to WCW and it was Flair's idea to bring in Steamboat to hold the company over while they got their ducks in a row.
The fact that Flair and Steamboat called their match in the ring as opposed to rehearsing, the clean finish, and the fact that they worked a longer match makes the Music City Showdown match the better of the two.

The length of the match does not make one match better than another (unless we're talking about a squash match, which in that case it's different). Also, calling it in the ring vs having the match pre-rehearsed doesn't make any match superior to another when both matches were worked excellently.

You prefer Steamboat/Flair over Steamboat/Savage. That's fine, both are 5 star matches (if you're talking about the original 3 BIG Steamboat/Flair matches). You prefering the Steamboat/Flair match doesn't take away from the influence of Steamboat/Savage, nor does it take away from the FACT that to this day wrestlers still use elements of Steamboat/Savage in their matches. It is still a flawless match (just prefering another 5 star match to it doesn't change that). It's actually one of the very few matches that I've never seen anyone rate lower than ***** stars anywhere. Let's just leave it at that.

 

[GULLAH JACK]

HBK vs. 'Taker = Greatest WM match EVER...Steamboat/Savage= a close second.

 

[Deltronz]

HBK vs. 'Taker = Greatest WM match EVER...Steamboat/Savage= a close second.

A couple points. The HBK/Taker match JUST took place. Personally I'D rate it a ****1/2 (obvious blown spot that stopped the match at one point so UT could recover). Let's wait and see how impactful this match will be down the line. Will it be mentioned and cited years from now? Who knows. It was certainly a great match, but Greatest WM match ever....not even sure it's in the 10 best matches of WM.

For example, HHH/Benoit/HBK was a much better match, is regarded as one of the best (and sometimes THE best) triple threat match (it actually had lots of psychology, which is difficult to pull in a triple threat match). Featured a much better build-up (and backstory), with a payoff EVERYONE wanted. And even that isn't greater than Steamboat/Savage from WMIII.

 

[dirtyd]

Personally i would say

1.Taker/HBK
2.Austin/Hart
3.Bret/Owen
4.Rock/Austin wm x7
5.HBK/Jericho wm 19
6.TLC wm x7
7.Angle/Benoit wm x7
8.HBK/Austin wm 14
9.Savage/Warrior wm 7
10.Savage/Steamboat wm 3

 

[Upgrade Dave]

The length of the match does not make one match better than another (unless we're talking about a squash match, which in that case it's different). Also, calling it in the ring vs having the match pre-rehearsed doesn't make any match superior to another when both matches were worked excellently.

You prefer Steamboat/Flair over Steamboat/Savage. That's fine, both are 5 star matches (if you're talking about the original 3 BIG Steamboat/Flair matches). You prefering the Steamboat/Flair match doesn't take away from the influence of Steamboat/Savage, nor does it take away from the FACT that to this day wrestlers still use elements of Steamboat/Savage in their matches. It is still a flawless match (just prefering another 5 star match to it doesn't change that). It's actually one of the very few matches that I've never seen anyone rate lower than ***** stars anywhere. Let's just leave it at that.

I'm not taking anything from Steamboat/Savage but the reasons I listed are the deciding factors on which match I think is better.

Other people citing which match is more influential to them is irrelevent to me. Far more people saw WrestleMania 3 than saw Music City Showdown. Flair and Steamboat both have said they've had even better matches on house shows in the 70s but the only people that saw them were the people in the arena.

 

[Deltronz]

I'm not taking anything from Steamboat/Savage but the reasons I listed are the deciding factors on which match I think is better.

Other people citing which match is more influential to them is irrelevent to me. Far more people saw WrestleMania 3 than saw Music City Showdown. Flair and Steamboat both have said they've had even better matches on house shows in the 70s but the only people that saw them were the people in the arena.

Since you brought up irrelevancy, the parts in bold are irrelevant to this matter since those who cite Steamboat/Savage as their influence (and continue to use elements of the match in there matches) also saw the big Flair/Steamboat matches. Also, what difference does it make that Flair/Steamboat have both stated (I've heard the shoot interviews where they discuss those matches) they had better matches against each other at house shows when we're not comparing matches we haven't seen?

In any event, one 5 star match vs another 5 star match in the end is like debating Godfather vs Godfather 2.

 

[c_commander]

Personally i would say

1.Taker/HBK
2.Austin/Hart
3.Bret/Owen
4.Rock/Austin wm x7
5.HBK/Jericho wm 19
6.TLC wm x7
7.Angle/Benoit wm x7
8.HBK/Austin wm 14
9.Savage/Warrior wm 7
10.Savage/Steamboat wm 3

I preferred their title match at the Royal Rumble.
Flair-Funk "I Quit" match at Clash of the Champions

 

[dirtyd]

I preferred their title match at the Royal Rumble.
Flair-Funk "I Quit" match at Clash of the Champions

I remember that ppv because of the crime against humanity match know as hhh vs steiner, one of the worst i had ever seen

 

[GULLAH JACK]

A couple points. The HBK/Taker match JUST took place. Personally I'D rate it a ****1/2 (obvious blown spot that stopped the match at one point so UT could recover). Let's wait and see how impactful this match will be down the line. Will it be mentioned and cited years from now? Who knows. It was certainly a great match, but Greatest WM match ever....not even sure it's in the 10 best matches of WM.

For example, HHH/Benoit/HBK was a much better match, is regarded as one of the best (and sometimes THE best) triple threat match (it actually had lots of psychology, which is difficult to pull in a triple threat match). Featured a much better build-up (and backstory), with a payoff EVERYONE wanted. And even that isn't greater than Steamboat/Savage from WMIII.

Not in the 10 best matches of WM?
NO WAY

The triple threat that you mentioned was okay, but not better than HBK/Taker....it's all subjective.

I have HBK in at least 3 of the greatest WM matches ever.
Hell, Jericho/HBK was better than HHH/HBK/Benoit

 

[Deltronz]

Hell, Jericho/HBK was better than HHH/HBK/Benoit

HHH/HBK/Benoit told a much better story, had no resting, more psychology, and a TREMENDOUSLY much better finish than Jericho/HBK. HHH/HBK/Benoit is another rare ***** match I have never seen anyone rate differently. Many people regard it as one of the best triple threat matches ever (and with good reason). Furthermore, the crowd was MUCH more into this match than HBK/Jericho as well. I think you should rewatch it, as you're severely underrating it as "ok." Doesn't have to be your favorite match, but "ok?"

Jericho/HBK was about **** match. It was great for the most part, but that ending was silly. HBK gained nothing by going over, whereas Jericho would've gained a lot to have gone over in that match (and many people agree with that). Everything from build up, action (You really found the action in HBK/Jericho more exciting than the nonstop action in Benoit/HHH/HBK? Seriously?), what it meant in the big scheme of things (in truth, all Jericho/HBK ending having was just a really good match. No one got elevated, it didn't build to anything. It was just...well...a match), Jericho/HBK just doesn't really rank in the same level.

As you said though, it's all opinions.

 

[dirtyd]

HHH/HBK/Benoit told a much better story, had no resting, more psychology, and a TREMENDOUSLY much better finish than Jericho/HBK. HHH/HBK/Benoit is another rare ***** match I have never seen anyone rate differently. Many people regard it as one of the best triple threat matches ever (and with good reason). Furthermore, the crowd was MUCH more into this match than HBK/Jericho as well. I think you should rewatch it, as you're severely underrating it as "ok." Doesn't have to be your favorite match, but "ok?"

Jericho/HBK was about **** match. It was great for the most part, but that ending was silly. HBK gained nothing by going over, whereas Jericho would've gained a lot to have gone over in that match (and many people agree with that). Everything from build up, action (You really found the action in HBK/Jericho more exciting than the nonstop action in Benoit/HHH/HBK? Seriously?), what it meant in the big scheme of things (in truth, all Jericho/HBK ending having was just a really good match. No one got elevated, it didn't build to anything. It was just...well...a match), Jericho/HBK just doesn't really rank in the same level.

As you said though, it's all opinions.

I vote for rock/taker/angle from vengence 2002 as the best triple threat match.

 

[Deltronz]

I vote for rock/taker/angle from vengence 2002 as the best triple threat match.

That's pretty damn good (****1/2 for me), but I wouldn't put it over HHH/Benoit/HBK.

I would say that it was a bit better than Jericho/HBK though as an overall match.

 

[dirtyd]

That's pretty damn good (****1/2 for me), but I wouldn't put it over HHH/Benoit/HBK.

I would say that it was a bit better than Jericho/HBK though as an overall match.

I hear ya but any match with hhh in it decreases the value to me, because i think he's overrated and a has been

 

[tp2001]

There is a lot of WM matches out there to go through for some to be considered in the top 10...Some of the matches mentioned (Steamboat/Savage, HBK/Taker, HHH/Benoit/HBK) would be in consideration for that list, but I'd like to chime on the HBK/Taker match...

I have that match as an underrated match because while the buildup wasn't that big (like Deltronz mentioned), and the segments weren't all too good IMO (light vs. darkness? that's some late 80s-early 90s angle ), the match surpassed some wrestling fans expectations...Even though everyone knew who would win the match and some did expect a good performance between the two (Michaels always shows out at WM and Taker has had a few good ones there), there were parts of the match that were surprising in a sense...Plus, some wouldn't think that two wrestlers who have been in the game for over 20 years would be able to make that match as good as it was.

That's what makes that match a highly rated match....and years from now they'll show that match as one of the greatest matches in the WWE like they show Hogan-Giant at WM3 (though that match wasn't that good).