What Makes A "Great" Coach Great??

[RunawaySlave]

Taking chances that's what. And he cannot be afraid to innovate
Mike D'Antoni is a good example. Although it may have
been a move he made by default. But putting Amare at
center and Marion at PF was brilliant. His whole small
lineup concept was a great move. Now he's done it again, putting
Boris Diaw at center. Definitely not a traditional man there


Was watching the Knicks last night and they were playing
their usual listless game. Mike Breen said Larry was "looking
for a spark" (which he has been doing since he got here)
and in the third quarter he finally found it. What he did was
play all three guards, Marbury, Crawford and Nate Robinson
together....took the ball OUT of Marbury's hands and put
Crawford at the SF spot....worked to perfection. Everyone
understood their roles, Nate ran the show and they ran
SET PLAYS for Crawford, Frye and Marbury (3rd option)....
A. Davis and Channing Frye cleaned up after any mistakes.

Point is, that Brown made an adjustment....putting Crawford
at SF was BRILLIANT, gave him the matchup advantage and
put the Bulls back on their heels......But it wouldn't have happened
on 95% of teams, they would have just selected one man as
the starter and the other as the backup and BOTH would have
been unhappy


I am thinking the same thing may very happen in LA pretty soon
Phil will abandon Odom as the "Point forward" and go the exact
opposite route.....Odom at the 4, Kobe at SF with Smush and one
other (a true guard) in the backcourt....it needs to be done even
more for the Lakers, since they running that dang triangle. You
need real bball minds to understand it

 

[cranrab]

I am thinking the same thing may very happen in LA pretty soon Phil will abandon Odom as the "Point forward" and go the exact
opposite route.....Odom at the 4, Kobe at SF with Smush and one
other (a true guard) in the backcourt....it needs to be done even
more for the Lakers, since they running that dang triangle. You
need real bball minds to understand it

i was toying with the idea that the fakers might experiment with players who've demonstrated at least rudimentary ball handling skills at 3 of the 5 STARTING spots:

1 - smush parker
3 - luke walton
4 - lamar odom

round out the roster with active, mobile players:

devean george
chris mihm

but that strategy has at least a few conflicting problems...

a) brian cook has been earning his spot in the rotation and deserves his minutes
b) jerry buss doesn't like to pay players large $ to watch them sit (kwame brown)

tobe should be moved to the bench... tobe could provide the sub squad with offensive capabilities, and with less minutes played, he'd reduce TOs and FGAs to manageable levels... most importantly, reduced minutes would also mean fewer poor decisions...

 

[RunawaySlave]

Lamar Odom is a 6'9" version of Stephon Marbury
and possibly the dumbest mutha fukka I've ever
seen play pro basketball

Talented as hell. But then again, so is Kobe right?
And look how far that's getting them....Add Kwame's
intellect and that might as well be the circular offense

 

[ronmch20]

You can be innovative all you like, but the bottom line is great players make coaches "great".

 

[RunawaySlave]

To that I would say this:

Stephon Marbury is a GREAT player....but not a great PG
Kobe Bryant is a GREAT talent.....but not very smart
Same goes for Odom......

Great players may HELP make great coaches
but great basketball MINDS know how to USE
great talent....

Kurt Rambis had Kobe and Shaq and didn't do shit
Doug Collins has the Bulls and didn't do shit
Larry Brown had Duncan, Robinson and Rodman
and didn't win
Don Chaney had Hakeem's team.....etc., etc.

 

[RunawaySlave]

Now we get to see if the "great players make great coaches
theory REALLY works. Pat Riley's back AGAIN!! And the Heat
are LOADED with talent





<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=yspsctnhdln>Heat coach Van Gundy resigns, Riley returns to coaching ranks</TD></TR><TR><TD height=7><SPACER height="1" width="1" type="block"></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>December 12, 2005

MIAMI (Ticker) - Stan Van Gundy's desire to be closer with his family has brought Pat Riley back into coaching. On Monday, the Miami Heat announced Van Gundy's resignation as coach and introduced team president Riley as his replacement on at least an interim basis. One season after guiding the Heat to the best record in the Eastern Conference (59-23) and within one win of reaching the NBA Finals, Van Gundy was 11-10 in 2005-06.

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


Despite being without superstar center Shaquille O'Neal due to an ankle injury for all but three games this season, Miami is in first place in the Southeast Division.


But Van Gundy revealed a longing to spend more time with his wife, Kim, and his four children and indicated he first brought it up to Riley after the second game of the season. Van Gundy, whose brother, Jeff, is coach of the Houston Rockets, will remain with the organization in a more limited capacity.

"I wanna be sitting with with my son (Michael) enjoying the game and not down here (on the bench)," Van Gundy said in a news conference. "I am just missing too much and I am not willing to do that anymore.

"I don't know why that is so hard for people to believe, but that's the truth. I want to spend more time with my family." In his third season as coach of the Heat, Van Gundy owned a 112-73 regular-season record and a 17-11 playoff mark. On Sunday, O'Neal returned from a prolonged absence and recorded 10 points and 11 rebounds in a 104-101 overtime win over the Washington Wizards.

"I was happy we won last night but as soon as I would have got on the plane to Chicago today I would have felt the same way," Van Gundy said.

Riley has won three NBA Coach of the Year awards - all with different teams - and piled up 1,110 career wins to rank third all-time before stepping down as Heat coach following the 2002-03 season. He spent seven seasons as Miami's coach on the heels of four campaigns with the New York Knicks.

"The timing of this really stinks and it puts Pat into a tough position," Van Gundy said. "Pat basically spent the last six weeks trying to get me (to reconsider)."

Riley, who orchestrated the blockbuster trade for O'Neal with the Los Angeles Lakers last summer is second on the all-time list with 155 postseason wins. He guided the Lakers to four championships in nine seasons from 1981-90.

"I have an obligation to this team and to (managing general partner Mickey Arison)," Riley said. "I'm going to put off my hip replacement surgery without a doubt."

In 21 seasons as coach, Riley has a .661 winning percentage (1,110-569), including a 354-270 mark with the Heat. Riley, who has been the team's president since 1995, named Van Gundy the fifth coach in team history on October 24, 2003.

Riley is the second coach to guide the Lakers to multiple titles and return to the coaching ranks following at least a one-year hiatus. Phil Jackson, who was at the helm as Los Angeles won the first three titles of this decade, returned to coach the Lakers after leaving the team following the 2003-04 campaign.

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Updated on Monday, Dec 12, 2005 12:07 pm EST
​

 

[Havoc]

I get the impression that Riley really wanted that job (with Phil and Larry brown back in action), but we'll see just how far he takes them. He's got an excellent track record, and he's got a lot of people believing in him.

 

[RunawaySlave]

Pat quit just long enough for people to forget how SHITTY
he was as the coach of the Heat. DESPITE the fact that he
had an ALL STAR roster of players....

Now he's back with another all-star roster of talent. But
is he great enough of a coach to take them all the way??

I spoke of coaches who took chances and didn't conform
to basic stereotypes of certain players. Well, Riley is just
the opposite. Although, playing bitch-ass Antoine Walker
on the point IS a very good idea. What will happen when
Jayson Williams returns?

 

[RunawaySlave]

Heat are getting close to having one foot in the grave

 

[cranrab]

Heat are getting close to having one foot in the grave

i'm not prepared to say that just yet... i think home court will be more favorable than the road was... ESPECIALLY at the FT line...

1 thing i think has greatly effected them is the addition of playmaking PGs williams and payton... i don't feel like arguing with box score readers, but in 2004-05, dwyane wade played alot of PG for coach van gundy, thereby AUTOMATICALLY getting his touches and having the ball in spots he liked where he could create off the dribble...

in 2005-06, ESPECIALLY the playoffs, wade isn't getting off because he's waiting for the ball in the sense of a traditional SG...

where has he been in games 3 and 4 while shaquille o'neal has been saddled with foul trouble?

 

[RunawaySlave]

The point about Wade is a valid one....but who plays where and who
you have on your roster is at the discretion of Pat Riley....It goes to
my point of what makes the coach a good one. The Heat were good
enough with Wade at the point. IMO, they were better than good.
They were on their way to good things BEFORE Shaq came over from
L.A. With Van Gundy at the helm and Wade, Butler and Odom, their
future looked bright.

But now they look like they don't know their asses from their elbows.
At times, they look invincible, but at other times, they look like a
lottery team. And that's with their best players on the court, not the
B team

Hope you're right about that home court. Because with that roster,
there is no reason why they shouldn't be in the FINALS other than
mismanagement

 

[TimRock]

The point about Wade is a valid one....but who plays where and who
you have on your roster is at the discretion of Pat Riley....It goes to
my point of what makes the coach a good one. The Heat were good
enough with Wade at the point. IMO, they were better than good.
They were on their way to good things BEFORE Shaq came over from
L.A. With Van Gundy at the helm and Wade, Butler and Odom, their
future looked bright.

But now they look like they don't know their asses from their elbows.
At times, they look invincible, but at other times, they look like a
lottery team. And that's with their best players on the court, not the
B team

Hope you're right about that home court. Because with that roster,
there is no reason why they shouldn't be in the FINALS other than
mismanagement

Wade should have stayed at point, and they should have kept Eddie Jones and Damon Jones. They have no real stoppers on the defensive end. GP isnt the same as back in the day. Even though Eddie and Damon wont put up much points (eddie might occasionally), Eddie still can play some D.

 

[RunawaySlave]

Whether the heat are better off with J. Williams/Payton versus Damon
Jones/Eddie Jones is debatable. But the fact remains that no matter
who they kept, it was Riley who had a hand in the decision. I'm sure
in his eyes, he was adding the final pieces to a championship team

Which the Heat may or may not be....they probably are a championship
team, just not with Riley as the coach...Do ya think he'd be man enough
to fire himself??

 

[RunawaySlave]

Of course...the Miami gets a reprieve on their death sentence
if Tyson Chandler is hurt and not 100%. No way the Bulls win
with the rest of that shitty front line against Shaq, Haslem and Zo

Chandler is just now learning the art of the flop. But he can get
up there and go after it with the best of them. Still light in the
bridges though. But if Camby can do it....so can he

 

[cranrab]

i'm not prepared to say that just yet... i think home court will be more favorable than the road was... ESPECIALLY at the FT line...

elaboration on my comment:

game 1 in miami: bulls 17 FTAs, heat 39 FTAs

game 2 in miami: bulls 26 FTAs, heat 25 FTAs

game 3 in chicago: bulls 46 FTAs, heat 33 FTAs

game 4 in chicago: bulls 31 FTAs, heat 5 FTAs

side note: memphis grizzlies have LOST 12 consecutive playoffs games. trade pau gasol to some sucker team that wants a euro, and then let ME coach that squad.

 

[cranrab]

george karl

2004 jeff bzdelik 43-39, 4-1 exit in the 1st round to the timberwolves

2006 george karl 44-38, 4-1 exit in the 1st round to the clippers

with alot of the same players, did the nuggets management just waste 3 seasons? of their time and money? of the fans' time and money? of the players' careers?

 

[RunawaySlave]

You can be innovative all you like, but the bottom line is great players make coaches "great".

Uh huh. I could've commented on this weeks ago, but I waited for
this exact moment for a reason just to say this:

No way would Phil Jax lose with Dwayne Wade, Shaq, Gary Payton
J. Will and so much more talent on his squad. No way

But Pat seems to find a way. Dallas is talented. And AJ is a good coach
on the verge of something bigger, but no way does Dallas have more
talent than the Heat


But one thing I learned in life is not to get caught up in arguments
So I will wait until the end of this finals (even though I believe in
MY HEART that the outcome may have already been decided) to

 

[SpiritualPorn]

Pat quit just long enough for people to forget how SHITTY
he was as the coach of the Heat. DESPITE the fact that he
had an ALL STAR roster of players....

Now he's back with another all-star roster of talent. But
is he great enough of a coach to take them all the way??

I spoke of coaches who took chances and didn't conform
to basic stereotypes of certain players. Well, Riley is just
the opposite. Although, playing bitch-ass Antoine Walker
on the point IS a very good idea. What will happen when
Jayson Williams returns?

Pat had been overrated for a long time.

I have been on to him since Van Gundy took basically the same Knicks team he had left to the Finals.

I disagree that he had great enough players in Miami to get to the Finals let alone win a championship. Firstly, any championship would have had to go through Jordan which was really not happening.

Secondly, Zo and Hardaway will not lead a team to any Finals. Those two have been looooong overrated. Zo is not a true center. He played the position however at the time he was usually going against guys bigger than he is. He played over his head for a long time. C Zo's mental approach,...the fist pump after a made basket in the second quarter of a game, the overagressiveness, and his lack of creativity, prevent him from effectively leading a team.

Hardaway is a selfish punk that forgot how to drive inside the last three years of his time here. He would never allow Mashburn to shine. He was sure quick to use his favorable relationship with Riles to get extra minutes to shoot himself into the game or to create division on the team.

Riles now is a much better coach because he realized he is not the show. I watched his press conference when he quit coaching the first time and he was broken down. The man actually said that he was not the reason LA won titles.

This year he has done a great job with this team. He will make the necessary adjustments in game to and it will be on from there.