Is Andre Ward quietly becoming one of the Boxing's most versatile Fighters?

[Bxlegend]

Way to get your Jimmy Carter on, Bx. They had out Nobels for that kind of work.

I just love discussing boxing, just like everyone else who contributes to this forum. If we could civily coexist while doing it, I think there'd be more memorable discussions.

I noticed that about Dirrell's frame, too. At 6'2 and only 26, he has a good chance at filling out to light heavy.
You just don't like Chad.
He's going to have to not only beat Pascal in Aug but do so impressively.

I truly think a focused Dirrell could have a near Roy Jones effect on boxing(which is a good thing). This kid has all the intangibles but true KO power(he does have some pop though). And yeah, I repeat, fuck Chad.

 

[Zeferino]

Since my name is being thrown around in a positive light on both ends, I'm gonna try to mediate this insanity. It's obvious to me that none of the people(for the most part) contributing to threads such as these are just casual fans and we need to appreciate each other here because we're a dying breed. Z, you've made some ridiculously biased(and plain ridiculous) statements in the past which jaded many peoples approach to your opinions, including my own. It seemed like you were a (racist)member of Manny's camp when a PBF/Pacman match was the hot topic and the DP thing was just TMI bruh. Those actions(especially all the racial BS) left a lasting negative view of you and led to attacks from some and I just strait up ignored you. What I'm hoping is that we can all get past the past disagreements and have some civil boxing dialog w/o all the soap opera bs. Dave, you seem like good people, and I appreciate the positive words regarding my comparitive analysis, but it just added on to Z's platform just like you've done in the past for me and me for you. I'm not in your mind, but it did seem like you were being biased towards Z and that conflicts with the character of the cat whose objectivity help bring me over to the sports forum. I know it's hard not to get sucked in a mud slinging contest when little insulting darts are thrown in with opinion(Z that was directed to you), but level heads always prevail.

Let's try to state our opinions respectfully and not turn this into eastside boxing or doghouse where cats talk about each others mothers and sexuality when frustrated. We're all adult men in here, and bickering back and forth are not traits of adults or men. I got no more beef w/ you Z and I hope we can all stop putting black eyes in the good thing we got here.... A small, inteligent group of personalities who truely love the sport and "science"(in Lenox Lewis's accent) of boxing..... It's a beautiful thing. Peace

Great diplomacy. Just a few comments. Regarding my so called ridiculously biased comments, I am not sure what specific comment(s) you are referring to but it's possible that some were biased since opinions tend to be. I think most are not biased and I always back them up with details. As for the racism aspect, I am not racist. I think people that don't like FMJ don't like him because of his attitude not his race. I find guys like Bhops and even James Toney to be ghetto but somewhat more respectable. Maybe Toney to a lesser extent than Bhops. Jones was also a very respectable P4P champ IMO and I thought he was a great face for the sport of boxing. I think FMJ with his money flinging and calling himself a gorilla is embarrassing.

Regarding ridiculous bias again, a lot of people here are guilty of this. It's a message board! You even have people on here saying FMJ has the greatest defense of all time. I think that's an incredibly biased statement but those who share that opinion may think otherwise.

Regarding beef, I think you have been mature about it. Like you do, if you don't like what I say, just ignore me. I don't chase these guys around trying to discredit the garbage they write because I really don't care. However, for some reason as much as they say otherwise, they really care about what I write. Once in a while I do chime in to agree with some of the few intelligent comments they make because I am mature enough to filter out the garbage. I only respond negatively or disrespectfully when they jump on me with unprovoked snide comments. I respond directly ready to back up my statements. This guy Upgrade keeps saying I just threw something out there without explaining but he's clearly a bullshitter and like you said, he's biased. Either that or he can't read.

I am not afraid to be different or have an opinion totally different than anyone else. I refuse to be some bandwagon kind of guy. I think people should be able to tell the difference between jokes and non jokes. If I say Andre Berto is on performance enhancing voodoo and also say Mike Tyson was a great puncher, it should be easy to tell the difference. I think those who play stupid like they can't tell the difference are just salty haters.

Regarding the stating of opinions respectfully, that's exactly what I did. If these guys don't start something, there won't be nothing.

 

[Zeferino]

What's funny to me is when I typed my responses to you I was thinking "Now Zeferino's going to think I'm picking on him." But I typed it anyway. His history shades his opinions in a different light for me and I regard him lightly. I'm sure we've agreed on something in the past (don't ask me what but I agree with Blunt sometimes on the main board, so I know it's possible)but once you've shown to not be serious in an at least semi-serious conversation, that's it.
All it takes when I disagree with someone is for them to show me what they see. I still might not agree but I can then understand. You did it, he didn't. If it continued to escalate, I'd have checked out and moved on to talk about Chad Dawson.
But I'm already over it.

You made comments directed to me so don't try to play it off now. Nobody here is stupid. If you truly regarded me so lightly, you wouldn't bother hunting my posts down in almost every thread like you do trying to provoke some shit. Now me, I really think lightly of you because I only address you when you come to my table.

 

[Bxlegend]

Great diplomacy. Just a few comments. Regarding my so called ridiculously biased comments, I am not sure what specific comment(s) you are referring to but it's possible that some were biased since opinions tend to be. I think most are not biased and I always back them up with details. As for the racism aspect, I am not racist. I think people that don't like FMJ don't like him because of his attitude not his race. I find guys like Bhops and even James Toney to be ghetto but somewhat more respectable. Maybe Toney to a lesser extent than Bhops. Jones was also a very respectable P4P champ IMO and I thought he was a great face for the sport of boxing. I think FMJ with his money flinging and calling himself a gorilla is embarrassing.

Regarding ridiculous bias again, a lot of people here are guilty of this. It's a message board! You even have people on here saying FMJ has the greatest defense of all time. I think that's an incredibly biased statement but those who share that opinion may think otherwise.

Regarding beef, I think you have been mature about it. Like you do, if you don't like what I say, just ignore me. I don't chase these guys around trying to discredit the garbage they write because I really don't care. However, for some reason as much as they say otherwise, they really care about what I write. Once in a while I do chime in to agree with some of the few intelligent comments they make because I am mature enough to filter out the garbage. I only respond negatively or disrespectfully when they jump on me with unprovoked snide comments. I respond directly ready to back up my statements. This guy Upgrade keeps saying I just threw something out there without explaining but he's clearly a bullshitter and like you said, he's biased. Either that or he can't read.

I am not afraid to be different or have an opinion totally different than anyone else. I refuse to be some bandwagon kind of guy. I think people should be able to tell the difference between jokes and non jokes. If I say Andre Berto is on performance enhancing voodoo and also say Mike Tyson was a great puncher, it should be easy to tell the difference. I think those who play stupid like they can't tell the difference are just salty haters.

Regarding the stating of opinions respectfully, that's exactly what I did. If these guys don't start something, there won't be nothing.

My issue with you stemmed from when you kept saying that "Floyd nuthangers" had a "nigga mentality". That is both biased and racist/ignorant. True, you did say things to back up your words, but they were equally biased and offensive, at least to me. I don't remember everything you said (I try to block out the negative), but I remember wanting to actually put hands on you because I was so offended. Being biased towards your opinion of a fighters'(who are basically strangers to us anyway) skillset or character are one thing(I personally think Floyd is an embarrasment and highly irresponsible, despite his talent), but profiling the people you are having this discussion with in an extremely derogatory manner is hurtful and ignorant, which is something I'm sure you wouldn't appreciate being on the receiving end of.

I do agree that in this case, and in some others I've observed, you were attacked w/o provocation, but your previous interactions and comments towards others probably left some residual bad blood. Even though two wrongs don't make a right, it it does make you even, unfortunately. I just think it'd be great if we could, as men, throw all the petty crap out the window and discuss our opinions, whether similar or conflicting, in a civil manner. Shit, I've been participating in boxing forums as long as I knew they existed, ant this has been my most enjoyable. I just want it to stay that way. So to all I ask if we could please stop the personal attacks and keep it boxing? It's petty, childish, and unnecessary

 

[merce77]

Let's just keep it boxing fellas, if we were sitting here in person we could all just crack a beer and talk it out so let me be the first.....

.......To get it started Oh btw, who doesn't like Chad and why? I ask because there seems to be a problem with the quotes and it seemed like BX was quoting himself in that post, I'm a bit confused. I'm not a fan of Dawson's but I don't dislike the guy either, he just still has a lot to prove.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Let's just keep it boxing fellas, if we were sitting here in person we could all just crack a beer and talk it out so let me be the first.....

.......To get it started Oh btw, who doesn't like Chad and why? I ask because there seems to be a problem with the quotes and it seemed like BX was quoting himself in that post, I'm a bit confused. I'm not a fan of Dawson's but I don't dislike the guy either, he just still has a lot to prove.

Yeah, he does.

I'll snitch, Bx doesn't like Chad.

 

[TJervey]

I actually have Pascal beating Dawson. The difference is Pascal has been in wars before and he is just as athletic as Dawson. Add home court advantage and you have a recipe for an upset...

 

[Upgrade Dave]

You made comments directed to me so don't try to play it off now. Nobody here is stupid. If you truly regarded me so lightly, you wouldn't bother hunting my posts down in almost every thread like you do trying to provoke some shit. Now me, I really think lightly of you because I only address you when you come to my table.

Play off what, dude? How old are you? Why would I hunt down your posts, I don't find what you say to be very interesting. I almost missed the DP thread completely? I go to the boxing threads and you go to the boxing threads. That's like me saying merce is cyber stalking me so he can get me drunk so we can hate on Floyd Mayweather together (didn't see that coming did you, merce).
Below are the second and third posts I made in this thread and the first and second where I referenced you. Which one hurt your feelings? Which one was especially rude, in your opinion? Even with you, I try to keep it boxing related even if you go on some "I don't like you" "I'm lying to myself" type spiel. From the beginning I wanted to see where other people thought Ward could go from here and after the Super Six.

It's not a matter of being close-minded but every wild opinion can't be given credence just because you can find another lunatic in agreement.

It would be if that's what anyone was saying. To compare Ward to Ruiz is lazy thinking and that's not something that's unusual in a medium that requires no credentials or even homework to post your opinion. So finding articles/columnists/anyone to agree with a point, no matter how outlandish, shouldn't be considered validation, see anything about President Obama being born in Kenya.

Pick one.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

I actually have Pascal beating Dawson. The difference is Pascal has been in wars before and he is just as athletic as Dawson. Add home court advantage and you have a recipe for an upset...

Yeah, I know. That's the main reason I said he'd have to win big. If he's in a tight one with Pascal and it goes to the judges, his 0 will go.

 

[merce77]

Play off what, dude? How old are you? Why would I hunt down your posts, I don't find what you say to be very interesting. I almost missed the DP thread completely? I go to the boxing threads and you go to the boxing threads. That's like me saying merce is cyber stalking me so he can get me drunk so we can hate on Floyd Mayweather together (didn't see that coming did you, merce).
Below are the second and third posts I made in this thread and the first and second where I referenced you. Which one hurt your feelings? Which one was especially rude, in your opinion? Even with you, I try to keep it boxing related even if you go on some "I don't like you" "I'm lying to myself" type spiel. From the beginning I wanted to see where other people thought Ward could go from here and after the Super Six.












Pick one.

Dammit, you saw right through my grand scheme. Time to go back to the drawing board.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Dammit, you saw right through my grand scheme. Time to go back to the drawing board.

You gotta watch for the hook, merce.

Now if you had some Red Stripe, you might have got me.

 

[Zeferino]

My issue with you stemmed from when you kept saying that "Floyd nuthangers" had a "nigga mentality". That is both biased and racist/ignorant. True, you did say things to back up your words, but they were equally biased and offensive, at least to me. I don't remember everything you said (I try to block out the negative), but I remember wanting to actually put hands on you because I was so offended. Being biased towards your opinion of a fighters'(who are basically strangers to us anyway) skillset or character are one thing(I personally think Floyd is an embarrasment and highly irresponsible, despite his talent), but profiling the people you are having this discussion with in an extremely derogatory manner is hurtful and ignorant, which is something I'm sure you wouldn't appreciate being on the receiving end of.

I do agree that in this case, and in some others I've observed, you were attacked w/o provocation, but your previous interactions and comments towards others probably left some residual bad blood. Even though two wrongs don't make a right, it it does make you even, unfortunately. I just think it'd be great if we could, as men, throw all the petty crap out the window and discuss our opinions, whether similar or conflicting, in a civil manner. Shit, I've been participating in boxing forums as long as I knew they existed, ant this has been my most enjoyable. I just want it to stay that way. So to all I ask if we could please stop the personal attacks and keep it boxing? It's petty, childish, and unnecessary

I think you are confusing me with LowerNupe. I may of shown agreement with some of his statements but I never went into the depths you mention especially not on the racial tip.

 

[Zeferino]

Play off what, dude? How old are you? Why would I hunt down your posts, I don't find what you say to be very interesting.

Still in denial? I'm sure you find them very interesting. That's why you always get sucked into the vortex like either you or your buddy said.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Still in denial? I'm sure you find them very interesting. That's why you always get sucked into the vortex like either you or your buddy said.

Dammit HNIC, make me a smily for exhaustion. The just doesn't express my feelings with this accurately enough.

Denial? You really take this stuff far too seriously. I posted my comments for you to illuminate me on where you were so grievously injured. You didn't. I'm done.


Ward looked good and if he beats Dirrell, he'll be undisputedly the top super middle in the world. Then HBO will shovel a pile of money in his face and he'll fight either Lucian Bute or Chad Dawson (if CD beats Pascal). The only thing to upset that course of events would be a close, exciting win/loss with Dirrell, then HBO will snatch up both of them for a ppv rematch.

 

[Zeferino]

Dammit HNIC, make me a smily for exhaustion. The just doesn't express my feelings with this accurately enough.

Denial? You really take this stuff far too seriously. I posted my comments for you to illuminate me on where you were so grievously injured. You didn't. I'm done.


Ward looked good and if he beats Dirrell, he'll be undisputedly the top super middle in the world. Then HBO will shovel a pile of money in his face and he'll fight either Lucian Bute or Chad Dawson (if CD beats Pascal). The only thing to upset that course of events would be a close, exciting win/loss with Dirrell, then HBO will snatch up both of them for a ppv rematch.

Gravely injured? Where are you getting that from? I'm just coming back at you with intensity when you come at me with intensity. If you joke with me in your very next post, I will respond likewise. I have absolutely no hard feelings regarding any of this. You can see this in one of those threads about the DP's. In one post we were exchanging snide comments and in the very next post in the same thread I would make a lighthearted comment in response to something else you wrote that wasn't snide. That's the way I am. I really don't give a fuck about trivial stuff and am a very laid back person. That's why I wouldn't waste my time going through you're posts to point out to you something that supposedly offended me. That you would propose something like that is condescending and just silly.

I just throw back heat when its thrown at me, that's all. Nothing personal. That's why you'll never see me swearing I will stay away from anybody's posts and never comment with them, etc. If I feel the need to post or say what I want to say, I'll do it without being worried of getting sucked into some vortex or matrix,etc. When you guys say stuff like this, it would appear you take things too seriously.

 

[Alaskanredman]

Another thread hi jacked

 

[Jordan Diddy Buk]

Boxing fans on bgol be on some sensitive shit. And god forbid you don't swallow pbf groupie juice. You get labeled a white boy or hater. Funny ass stuff.

My take on dude is u make your legend in the ring by facing the best. If he beats another top fighter I would have no problem putting him in the top 10.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Boxing fans on bgol be on some sensitive shit. And god forbid you don't swallow pbf groupie juice. You get labeled a white boy or hater. Funny ass stuff.

My take on dude is u make your legend in the ring by facing the best. If he beats another top fighter I would have no problem putting him in the top 10.

Oh my damn. Who was talking about Floyd Mayweather?

Who would you like to see Ward fight next (assuming he beats Dirrell?)

 

[merce77]

Oh my damn. Who was talking about Floyd Mayweather?

Who would you like to see Ward fight next (assuming he beats Dirrell?)

Bute. I'd have put him in that tourney instead of Froch or Taylor.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Bute. I'd have put him in that tourney instead of Froch or Taylor.

Yeah but I think HBO had him on lock for the Andrade rematch. That guy is sitting in a good spot too, even better than Dawson, seeing as he's already in the same division.

 

[TJervey]

Yeah but I think HBO had him on lock for the Andrade rematch. That guy is sitting in a good spot too, even better than Dawson, seeing as he's already in the same division.

Actually Bute's handlers kept him out of the Super 6. He was actually contacted prior to Taylor, but they decline, preferring to allow the Tourney to sort out their next opponent. Even though it robs us of seeing him in the Tourney, it is smart thinking in that, the winner of the Tourney at this point unless it's Ward will have an L by the time that fight happens. In the mean time, Bute can continue to feast on A- to B level fighters, all the while staking his claim to being the best in the division and having a 'valid' dispute to the winner of the Super 6's claim to the throne. I would definitely see him as one of the favorites in the tourney, but one thing I do like is the mix of skills and strengths, etc. which definitely adds credence to the adage styles make fights. On a side not, Froch is really annoying with is constant whining and bitching?!?!?....

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Actually Bute's handlers kept him out of the Super 6. He was actually contacted prior to Taylor, but they decline, preferring to allow the Tourney to sort out their next opponent. Even though it robs us of seeing him in the Tourney, it is smart thinking in that, the winner of the Tourney at this point unless it's Ward will have an L by the time that fight happens. In the mean time, Bute can continue to feast on A- to B level fighters, all the while staking his claim to being the best in the division and having a 'valid' dispute to the winner of the Super 6's claim to the throne. I would definitely see him as one of the favorites in the tourney, but one thing I do like is the mix of skills and strengths, etc. which definitely adds credence to the adage styles make fights. On a side not, Froch is really annoying with is constant whining and bitching?!?!?....

In that case, he's got great people working for/with him. Smart management can add years to a fighter's career (you hear that Jermain?).
Froch is a broad. Does he need reminding that he was losing the Taylor fight? Taylor doesn't have a shitty corner, his story may have been going in a different direction. That bitch is lucky to get any type of money fights.

 

[Alaskanredman]

In that case, he's got great people working for/with him. Smart management can add years to a fighter's career (you hear that Jermain?).
Froch is a broad. Does he need reminding that he was losing the Taylor fight? Taylor doesn't have a shitty corner, his story may have been going in a different direction. That bitch is lucky to get any type of money fights.

Taylor has one of the saddest stories in recent boxing history. To fly that high an fall so low in a short amount of time is ridiculous.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Taylor has one of the saddest stories in recent boxing history. To fly that high an fall so low in a short amount of time is ridiculous.

Especially with some of the mistakes being so avoidable.

 

[TJervey]

In that case, he's got great people working for/with him. Smart management can add years to a fighter's career (you hear that Jermain?).
Froch is a broad. Does he need reminding that he was losing the Taylor fight? Taylor doesn't have a shitty corner, his story may have been going in a different direction. That bitch is lucky to get any type of money fights.

Taylor has one of the saddest stories in recent boxing history. To fly that high an fall so low in a short amount of time is ridiculous.

You can actually put Taylor in the same class as David Reid, Fernando Vargas, etc. It seems lately to be a curse on some of the Olympians, they come in with the fanfare, a pseudo sense of entitlement, as well as those around them having an inflated sense of their abilities. In Taylor's, it was never so much his style of fighting, but weak conditioning as well as I believe psychological issues once Pavlik knocked him out. For some fighters it works, but I've never been one for immediate rematches after BRUTAL knockouts. Close fights, maybe, but a guy can't recover mentally after a brutal KO. In Taylor's case it was a combination of bad management, bad corner, as well as I think it may have been a bad move to fire Manny. I never thought Manny had the control of his camp that he needed to have, with all of the 'life long' buddies and influence Taylor employed. I believe if he was allowed to have some 'get well' fights against some B level type fighters, sort of how Lennox Lewis did after McCall knocked him out, I believe he would still be a top level fighter.

As far as Froch goes, while he has some skills, he has a Prima Donna mentality that really fucks me up?!?! Like Boxing owes his ass something. This shit with him and Abraham is a joke. Also, as much as I love the development of Ward, he needs to get his ass out of Oakland and be impressive on the road or someone else's hometown to truly be considered one of the elite....

 

[Alaskanredman]

You can actually put Taylor in the same class as David Reid, Fernando Vargas, etc. It seems lately to be a curse on some of the Olympians, they come in with the fanfare, a pseudo sense of entitlement, as well as those around them having an inflated sense of their abilities. In Taylor's, it was never so much his style of fighting, but weak conditioning as well as I believe psychological issues once Pavlik knocked him out. For some fighters it works, but I've never been one for immediate rematches after BRUTAL knockouts. Close fights, maybe, but a guy can't recover mentally after a brutal KO. In Taylor's case it was a combination of bad management, bad corner, as well as I think it may have been a bad move to fire Manny. I never thought Manny had the control of his camp that he needed to have, with all of the 'life long' buddies and influence Taylor employed. I believe if he was allowed to have some 'get well' fights against some B level type fighters, sort of how Lennox Lewis did after McCall knocked him out, I believe he would still be a top level fighter.

As far as Froch goes, while he has some skills, he has a Prima Donna mentality that really fucks me up?!?! Like Boxing owes his ass something. This shit with him and Abraham is a joke. Also, as much as I love the development of Ward, he needs to get his ass out of Oakland and be impressive on the road or someone else's hometown to truly be considered one of the elite....

Taylor is an odd story because any trainer/team with some sense would have seen the issues that Taylor had with B-hop and would have worked on them every since, but that nigga became a worse fighter against tough comp. I have never seen that shit... if the team wasn't doing it, you would almost think that the comp alone with all the different styles would make him better, but he just got worse and worse even when he as winning. His best weapon... the jab disappeared and I don't care what people say Pavlik should have never been able to beat Taylor.

Oh, yeah fuck Froch. Never like him.

 

[Jordan Diddy Buk]

Oh my damn. Who was talking about Floyd Mayweather?

Who would you like to see Ward fight next (assuming he beats Dirrell?)

I like for ward to handle business in this tourney and move up for one fight against Chad.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

You can actually put Taylor in the same class as David Reid, Fernando Vargas, etc. It seems lately to be a curse on some of the Olympians, they come in with the fanfare, a pseudo sense of entitlement, as well as those around them having an inflated sense of their abilities. In Taylor's, it was never so much his style of fighting, but weak conditioning as well as I believe psychological issues once Pavlik knocked him out. For some fighters it works, but I've never been one for immediate rematches after BRUTAL knockouts. Close fights, maybe, but a guy can't recover mentally after a brutal KO. In Taylor's case it was a combination of bad management, bad corner, as well as I think it may have been a bad move to fire Manny. I never thought Manny had the control of his camp that he needed to have, with all of the 'life long' buddies and influence Taylor employed. I believe if he was allowed to have some 'get well' fights against some B level type fighters, sort of how Lennox Lewis did after McCall knocked him out, I believe he would still be a top level fighter.

When I heard he was ballooning up to 200 lbs between fights, I knew he lacked the discipline to be a great fighter. It's not necessarily over but I don't see a significant comeback in the cards. Not with his current mindset and management.

As far as Froch goes, while he has some skills, he has a Prima Donna mentality that really fucks me up?!?! Like Boxing owes his ass something. This shit with him and Abraham is a joke. Also, as much as I love the development of Ward, he needs to get his ass out of Oakland and be impressive on the road or someone else's hometown to truly be considered one of the elite....

all this.

Taylor is an odd story because any trainer/team with some sense would have seen the issues that Taylor had with B-hop and would have worked on them every since, but that nigga became a worse fighter against tough comp. I have never seen that shit... if the team wasn't doing it, you would almost think that the comp alone with all the different styles would make him better, but he just got worse and worse even when he as winning. His best weapon... the jab disappeared and I don't care what people say Pavlik should have never been able to beat Taylor.

After two fights with Hopkins and then the fight with Wright, he should have been ready to blow through the middleweight division, including Pavlik, Miranda, and Abraham.
I agree with you on Pavlik. Taylor's sheer athleticism should have been enough but once he gassed out in their first fight, that was it for him.

I like for ward to handle business in this tourney and move up for one fight against Chad.

Me too but Bute is starting to more enticing. Same division, big HBO push, draws sellout crowds in Montreal, good chance of a good fight. I don't know.