Is it just me or has Andre Ward slowly morphed into one of the best most versatile boxers in Boxing? Watching his comprehensive breakdown of live underdog Allen Green last night, which was a follow up to his beat down of tourney favorite Mikkel Kessler, Ward is showing on the big stage that he is a force not only in the tourney and the 168 lb division but in Boxing. Might be time to rate him in the top 10 PFP lists...
Is Andre Ward quietly becoming one of the Boxing's most versatile Fighters?
- Thread starter TJervey
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I agree that he appears to be the real deal. BUT, top 10 pfp? Not just yet, Kessler was tailor made for his style and Green showed last night why Lucian Bute should have replaced Taylor. Green is out of his class in this tourney, the guy got decisioned by Edison Miranda of all people. If Ward takes apart Dirrel though, then I'll have to start agreeing with you. I like his all around game, he could be a great one if he keeps it up.
He does seem to be evolving into some sort of semi exciting John Ruiz or maybe just a John Ruiz with great speed. He'll win a lot of fights that way but it won't be pretty. This smothering style is actually a defensive style. It's the same style Ruiz morphed into after he got knocked out by Tua and dazed by a few other guys. Just strategically smother the guys while getting off your shots and not letting them throw punches and you're good to go. A counterpuncher like Allan Green is a sucker for this style because he'll be busy getting smothered and won't be able to counter.
I agree... Green had one great performance and he's been stuck in the high school hero syndrome since. Kessler got the treatment most stiff Euros get against black fighters.
It's hard not to view him as the best of the division, but he needs to beat Dirrel.
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He is pulling you into the vortex of his bullshit.
I'm convinced he intentionally says crazy shit in these threads just to get a response.
I'm convinced he intentionally says crazy shit in these threads just to get a response.
Hey, to each his own. His smothering style definitely reminds me of John Ruiz only slightly more interesting. I hate grabbing clutchfests and it's the second one in a row for Ward. But hey, it's effective and it wins him fights just like it did for Ruiz.
As a matter of fact, if you google "Andre Ward, John Ruiz" you'll see that many others have made similar observations and comparisons. Why is this so outlandish, crazy, and unbelievable to you and Alaskan? You guys are very closed minded sometimes.
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Perfect response.
I want to see if Dirrell has bounced back from the blow he took from Abraham. If he can, he and Ward could have a really good, telling fight. A Ward victory could push him into top p4p.
Seeing these guys and Lucian Bute doing well, I hope some of them move up to challenge Chad Dawson.
It's not a matter of being close-minded but every wild opinion can't be given credence just because you can find another lunatic in agreement.
Declaring an opinion "wild" in something as subjective as boxing is ridiculous. Just like there is a thread here where you guys apparently swear there's absolutely no resemblance between Ward and Ruiz, there are other forums with threads where people swear the opposite. There are also news articles with the comparison made and I guarantee you will be hearing this comparison more and more if Ward's fights keep going this way. It would be closed minded to say that everyone else is just a lunatic because they don't share your opinion.
It would be if that's what anyone was saying. To compare Ward to Ruiz is lazy thinking and that's not something that's unusual in a medium that requires no credentials or even homework to post your opinion. So finding articles/columnists/anyone to agree with a point, no matter how outlandish, shouldn't be considered validation, see anything about President Obama being born in Kenya.
I'm gonna have to play devils advocate on this one, but I agree with this comparison. When I watch Ward I imagine that this is what you'd get if to mesh John Ruiz with Benard Hopkins. I can't really disagree with anything said above
Both fighters(Ruiz and Ward)made a drastic change in style(defensively and offensively) after being exposed/tested. Ward definitely executes with crisper, more accurate punches from some all angles(ala the Hopkins comparison), but he's historically a more skilled fighter than Ruiz. I really can't stand Zeferino, but as someone who has sat damn near ringside to almost every Ruiz fight in AC or the Garden(long story), I can definitely see the simularities. With that being said, I'm a big fan of Wards and think he'll eventually open up as a fighter once his Man strength settles in(he's only 26). This Guy might be the real deal. Still think there's a little more upside for Dirrell though if he develops a little more pop with age.I'm gonna have to play devils advocate on this one, but I agree with this comparison. When I watch Ward I imagine that this is what you'd get if to mesh John Ruiz with Benard Hopkins. I can't really disagree with anything said above
Now Hopkins, I can see. Ruiz had to have some skill, I just rarely got to see it unless he was fighting shot fighters who couldn't throw punches (Holyfield) or big slow, immobile giants who couldn't throw punches (Valuev). Comparing Ward to Hopkins is very reasonable.
At 26, I think he could be the guy (him or Dirrell) to make that move up to light heavyweight but only after HBO has snatched him up and had him fight Bute.
For style comparison purposes only(I doubt you'll get much entertainment out of it), maybe you should go back to the Oquendo, Kirk Johnson, or Rahman fights. There you can get an idea of how Ruizs' style frustrated a few different types of boxers. And looking at those fight, I feel pretty confident that you'll see were the Ward comparisons can be made. Wards similarity to Hopkins is more so offensively, because while both Hopkins and Ruiz are/were in-fighters, BHop likes to begin his in-fighting from a counter(bringing his opponent inside) and Ruiz initiated from the inside(fighting in a defensive mode to protect that chin). Hopkins, like Ward, is way more active with the jab and uses it to measure their opponent unlike Ruiz who would barely lead with a jab at all. I can easily see where the Ruiz comparison is made, but I see it as a fusion of the two, maybe with a little Winky Wright at 160 mixed in there too.
Honestly, I don't want to see either fighter(Ward or Dirrell) move up anytime soon, because I think there're alot of good match-ups that can be made between 160-168(fuck Dawson, go move up and fight Haye). As for Bute, I don't see Ward winning that fight(Too good of a in-fighter,though I wouldn't be shocked), but a smart and confident Dirrell using his speed and reach(Dirrells got 5" on Bute) should be able to pull off a UD or even a late stoppage(Butes gotta good chin, but he can be hurt).
Haye's gone, he's a heavyweight now. Right now Dawson should be trying to get as many HBO fights as he can get (BAD, WCB, whatever) to make himself an attraction. Should he have to fight a winner of the Super Six in the future, that guy will be the one who gets the lion's share, even if they're fighting for Dawson's title.
168 is stacked and a good division to make a name for a fighter, though. All those guys already mentioned plus Andrade and Pavlik to add depth to the division (not real contenders but guys who make good tv opponents).
Andre ward is a phenomenal fighter and I cant wait to see him and dirrell get in there. One thing about dirrell that makes me think he wont fair well is his patchyness and lack of fire...in other words, he doesn't do well when he is puzzled...(lets not forget when he was skipping around the ring like a ballerina against Curtis Stevens) although he has improved leaps and bounds since then...andre ward might just bring that bitch out of him again. Andre is somebody we need to watch..he's super focused and skilled.
I'm gonna have to play devils advocate on this one, but I agree with this comparison. When I watch Ward I imagine that this is what you'd get if to mesh John Ruiz with Benard Hopkins. I can't really disagree with anything said above
Taken from a Zeferino hater himself. At least you're objective and that is always appreciated.
Lazy thinking? I think your dislike for me clouds your thinking and objectivity. It's interesting how BXlegend didn't get the same nasty responses from you after basically agreeing with my comparison. You just show a lack of true boxing knowledge and analytical ability with your comments. Think out of the box for once.
It's a lost cause. You need a keen eye to see stuff like that. Maybe after a few more years of watching boxing, Upgrade will see the light.
I hear all of the Ruiz comparisons but if I'm not mistaken, didn't Ward fight Kessler in a somewhat different style? The thing with Ruiz is he was strictly a clinch fighter. He probably averaged more clinches than punches! With Ward, while he hit and held a lot early on, as the fight went on, he opened up more on Green and started to hurt him. Similar methods but I don't see similar styles. I do feel a little more the Hopkins style, but as someone said earlier, as Ward gets stronger, he is a much better athlete than BHop so I see him as a more dynamic fighter down the line, not so much better but more dynamic.
I think Ward is similar to the current BHop's where Hops is old and does tend to lung in with a shot, clinch, hit off the break smother and so on. Prime Bhop didn't clinch that much IMO. Sure, he would wrestle but he did create space often, punch in combination from the outside and would land crisp combinations without having to hug all up on a guy.
Regarding Ruiz and Ward, the comparisons actually started with the Kessler fight. Actually, Ward's performance in that one was much less appealing because he was throwing one shot at a time, lunging forward, and tying up Kessler. I thought it was horrible but effective. At least in the fight with Green, one couldn't complain much because Ward made the style more interesting by throwing more punches and by strategically smothering while busting Green up.
Ruiz was just an unlikeable guy and people hated to watch him fight. Nevertheless, he used to throw punches too and would lull guys to sleep with the same smothering clinching style only to hurt them with big shots like the one he landed on Holyfield. Ruiz is very underrated because of his style but he had his run and was a legitimate champ that beat some decent guys. He wasn't a Lennox Lewis but he was decent in a Felix Sturm kind of way.
Ruiz' ass learned how the clinch grab and hold after this shit right here!!!! I will NEVER forget this ass whipping!!!
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I was going to say the same thing. Ruiz is one dimensional in his clinching... most fighters work off the jab and Ruiz worked off the clinch in every single fight he was in. The clinch became apart of Ruiz' offense and it became impossible to watch him fight.
If you see Ruiz in Ward, fine.... I don't see it. I say shit that niggas don't agree with. I generally try to have a point of view that I have thought though so when niggas question it, I can explain it.
Zef is constantly saying crazy shit with little to no explanation, producing insane articles, and saying it all like something is wrong with everyone else. It is pointless to respond to it, because there is no logical thought in 80% of his statements.
I already explained why Ward is similar to Ruiz IMO from the very first post. You're just a hater, plain and simple. From the beginning I expressed my opinion which is what a message board is for. It's an opinion shared by many by the way. Even one of your fellow Zeferino haters was able to see where I was coming from. Regardless, from the beginning I just expressed my opinion and never said it was fact. I have no idea why you feel the need to get so riled up and personal over someone else's opinion just because you don't share it. I really don't care about your opinions because I can tell you are a novice as far as boxing is concerned. That's why you never see me jumping on you and talking shit about your clueless comments. I don't think you can be reasoned with as you just need more experience under your belt. Usually the only time I acknowledge you is when you start talking crap about me. Get off my dick already.
When niggas write up "investigative" reports about DP's being used as training tools... I don't see why anyone takes their opinion seriously.
You had to be there man, you had to be there.
You're not even honest with yourself because you have a very obvious bias against anything I post. I don't even really care about your bias because I really don't see any depth in your opinions or the opinions of Alaskan either. At least just admit you're a hater when it comes to my posts instead of trying to take some fake intellectual stance only to have to backtrack like you're doing now. Both of you guys are just yes men. What's Alaskan's favorite line? "Oh, I was about to say that too." You guys are never original. You just jump on the bandwagon. From the very first post I made regarding this topic, I explained in detail my reasons for comparing Ward and Ruiz. I always give a detailed explanation for my opinions but you don't appear to be versed enough in this sport to understand. I can tell you just started watching boxing a few years ago. You're a casual fan trying to play it off as a hardcore fan. Bxlegend was intelligent and open minded enough to understand my opinion and analysis without resorting to all this, "oh, that's an insane statement" nonsense. The analysis did not boil down to "other people said it too". If you really believe that, you just can't read because the information is there for everyone to see. So, in other words, you're just a hater and you're also full of shit.
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Since my name is being thrown around in a positive light on both ends, I'm gonna try to mediate this insanity. It's obvious to me that none of the people(for the most part) contributing to threads such as these are just casual fans and we need to appreciate each other here because we're a dying breed. Z, you've made some ridiculously biased(and plain ridiculous) statements in the past which jaded many peoples approach to your opinions, including my own. It seemed like you were a (racist)member of Manny's camp when a PBF/Pacman match was the hot topic and the DP thing was just TMI bruh. Those actions(especially all the racial BS) left a lasting negative view of you and led to attacks from some and I just strait up ignored you. What I'm hoping is that we can all get past the past disagreements and have some civil boxing dialog w/o all the soap opera bs. Dave, you seem like good people, and I appreciate the positive words regarding my comparitive analysis, but it just added on to Z's platform just like you've done in the past for me and me for you. I'm not in your mind, but it did seem like you were being biased towards Z and that conflicts with the character of the cat whose objectivity help bring me over to the sports forum. I know it's hard not to get sucked in a mud slinging contest when little insulting darts are thrown in with opinion(Z that was directed to you), but level heads always prevail.
Let's try to state our opinions respectfully and not turn this into eastside boxing or doghouse where cats talk about each others mothers and sexuality when frustrated. We're all adult men in here, and bickering back and forth are not traits of adults or men. I got no more beef w/ you Z and I hope we can all stop putting black eyes in the good thing we got here.... A small, inteligent group of personalities who truely love the sport and "science"(in Lenox Lewis's accent) of boxing..... It's a beautiful thing. Peace
What's funny to me is when I typed my responses to you I was thinking "Now Zeferino's going to think I'm picking on him." But I typed it anyway. His history shades his opinions in a different light for me and I regard him lightly. I'm sure we've agreed on something in the past (don't ask me what but I agree with Blunt sometimes on the main board, so I know it's possible)but once you've shown to not be serious in an at least semi-serious conversation, that's it.
All it takes when I disagree with someone is for them to show me what they see. I still might not agree but I can then understand. You did it, he didn't. If it continued to escalate, I'd have checked out and moved on to talk about Chad Dawson.
But I'm already over it.
Way to get your Jimmy Carter on, Bx. They had out Nobels for that kind of work.
I noticed that about Dirrell's frame, too. At 6'2 and only 26, he has a good chance at filling out to light heavy.
You just don't like Chad
He's going to have to not only beat Pascal in Aug but do so impressively.