Those Damn Guns Again

QueEx

Rising Star
Super Moderator
A) impose tighter gun registration requirements so that we can track how guns come into possession of those who shouldn't have them;

(B) impose penalties on those that cause or allow guns to come into the hands of those who shouldn't have them; and

(C) make those whose intentional or negligent conduct cause or allow guns to come to the hands of those who shouldn't have them civilly and/or criminally liable for the resulting harm.

That would be responsible gun control -- focusing on the those who kill or injure, since we all know that guns, in and of themselves, do neither.
 

thoughtone

Rising Star
BGOL Investor
226675_10151619030741275_2024204481_n.png
 

QueEx

Rising Star
Super Moderator




PRECISELY!!!


Which is why you regulate people

Who can and who can't possess guns

who can and cannot sell or transfer guns

Who must register guns








  • Impose tighter gun registration requirements so that we can track how guns come into possession of those who shouldn't have them. Surely, if the NRA can have a "Secret Registration List" government can operate an open and public registration system, just as it does, largely without problem, with motor vehicle registration;

  • Impose penalties on those that cause or allow guns to come into the hands of those who shouldn't have them; and

  • Make those whose intentional or negligent conduct cause or allow guns to come to the hands of those who shouldn't have them civilly and/or criminally liable for the resulting harm.

  • That would be responsible gun control -- focusing on the those who kill or injure, since we all know that guns, in and of themselves, do neither.



 

QueEx

Rising Star
Super Moderator


Tim Fischer, former Deputy Prime Minister of Australia said Friday after the killing of college baseball player Christopher Lane that potential visitors to the U.S. should “think twice” after the murder of the Australian, who was fatally shot in the back and killed while jogging in an affluent neighborhood in Duncan, Oklahoma.

Fischer said the lack of gun control in the U.S. had led to a massacre “each and every year since 1996” - in contrast to Australia, which has restrictions on firearms ownership.

“I am angry because it is corrupting the world, this gun culture of the United States,” Fischer said. “The U.S. has chosen the pathway of an illogical policy with regard to guns. They cannot expect not to have any criticism of it worldwide.”




SOURCE


 

QueEx

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Super Moderator




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thoughtone

Rising Star
BGOL Investor
source: Slate

How Congress Blocked Research on Gun Violence

The ugly campaign by the NRA to shut down studies at the CDC.

After the tragic shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School, calls for gun-control legislation have begun. Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) said on NBC's Meet the Press that she plans to introduce a bill to ban assault weapons. Even West Virginia Democratic Sen. Joe Manchin, who calls himself a gun supporter, says he sees no reason for these types of weapons.


But as Congress considers new laws, the scientific research we need to craft the best policies is in short supply. This is by design.


In the 1990s, politicians backed by the NRA attacked researchers for publishing data on firearm research. For good measure, they also went after the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention for funding the research. According to the NRA, such science is not “legitimate.” To make sure federal agencies got the message, Rep. Jay Dickey (R-Ark.) sponsored an amendment that stripped $2.6 million from the CDC’s budget, the exact amount it had spent on firearms research the previous year.


But last summer, Dickey recanted. No longer in office, he wrote an editorial stating that “scientific research should be conducted into preventing firearm injuries and that ways to prevent firearm deaths can be found without encroaching on the rights of legitimate gun owners.”


To understand more about what we know and don’t know about the science of firearm violence, Slate contacted Garen Wintemute, director of the Violence Prevention Research Program at the University of California, Davis Medical Center. For over 30 years, he has studied firearm violence and published more than 100 studies in the field.


Paul Thacker: Since the ban on CDC funding for firearm violence research, how do scientists such as yourself find money for this type of science?


Garen Wintemute: The National Institute of Justice had a highly respected program of research in the field, smaller than CDC’s. That program ended several years ago when its program officer, a strong advocate for research on violence, retired. A number of private foundations also provided funding for this research, particularly in the 1990s, but many of them have left the field as well. Today, to my knowledge, there are fewer than five.


PT: Have other agencies besides the CDC also been intimidated by funding this type of research?


GW: I’ll let the agencies discuss whether they’ve been intimidated or simply prevented or prohibited. The statutory language, which remains in appropriations legislation for the Department of Health and Human Services to this day, is that “none of the funds made available in this title may be used, in whole or in part, to advocate or promote gun control.” I think it’s fair to say that this language has been interpreted at times to mean that none of the funds could be used to support research that, depending on its findings, might be used in support of efforts to alter current firearm policy.


It’s worth noting that when signing the budget for 2012, President Obama said of this provision that “I have advised the Congress that I will not construe these provisions as preventing me from fulfilling my constitutional responsibility to recommend to the Congress’s consideration such measures as I shall judge necessary and expedient.”


These comments have new relevance in light of the president’s statement this Wednesday that he is appointing Vice President Biden to chair a panel that will recommend a slate of firearm policy reforms by next month.


PT: About as many people in the United States are killed in auto accidents as by firearms. How does the amount of research and number of scientists in auto safety compare to firearm safety?


GW: I believe that 2012 will turn out to be the first year in which the United States has more deaths from firearm violence than motor vehicles.


An entire federal agency, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, has as its mission the understanding and prevention of death and injury on our roads and highways. It reports fiscal year 2012 funding of $62.4 million overall for research and analysis: $35.5 million for vehicle safety and $26.9 million for highway safety.


These funds are well spent. For nearly 50 years, this agency has worked to reduce death and injury. And it has succeeded.

PT: Do other countries fund research on gun violence, and can we use their data?


GW: I have read many studies over the years of firearm violence in other countries that have been funded by their governments. The findings of those studies are useful here, with the usual caveats about demographic and societal differences. The science is solid.


PT: Have you experienced personal attempts at intimidation for your research? How about colleagues?


GW: I won’t speak for colleagues. The president of one of the largest handgun manufacturers in the country once told me, face to face, how much money he had committed to an intimidation effort and advised me to keep my life insurance paid up. There was a time when federal law enforcement agents recommended that I wear a ballistic vest. There is a wanted poster on the Internet.


PT: What does the best research tell us about ways to limit gun violence in this country?


GW: It tells us that no one intervention is sufficient, but that an array of measures are effective, in different ways. We can set meaningful restrictions on who should have firearms, particularly when comprehensive background checks are in place. We can limit where and how firearms may be used, and what firearms should be owned by civilians. We can map and disrupt criminal firearm markets.


PT: What are some of the biggest gaps between what the research tells us and what the American public believes to be true about guns?


GW: Here are 3 important myths:

1) Rates of firearm violence are decreasing. In fact, overall mortality from firearm violence has remained absolutely steady for a decade, after decreasing from the early 1990s to about 2001.


2) Criminals can’t legally buy guns. Felons and persons convicted of domestic violence misdemeanors can’t. But others with a long history of misdemeanor crimes such as assault and battery, resisting arrest, and brandishing a weapon can buy all the firearms they want. So can alcohol abusers.


3) Nothing can be done because so many guns are in civilian hands. There are a great many firearms in the United States (perhaps 250 million to 300 million), but most of them are not in circulation. Many studies have shown that new guns figure disproportionately in crime, and we know both from research and decades of law enforcement work that effective interventions can be taken, no matter how many guns there are.


PT: If you sat on an NIH panel to fund firearm violence prevention, what projects do you think need public funding? What are the biggest gaps in the science?


GW: Actually, I did sit on such a panel, a National Institute of Justice Working Group, in November 2011. The group’s recommendations are here.

I would emphasize studies that evaluate interventions and randomized trials where those are feasible.


PT: There has been a history in this country of attacks on scientists for publishing research on topics—tobacco, climate change, chemicals—that is unpopular with certain political interests. What are your thoughts on this and your advice to young scientists venturing into these areas?


GW: This one is easy, and thanks for asking. If you love the science and believe the questions matter, do the research. The rest will all work out.




source: Think Progress


Largest Gun Study Ever: More Guns, More Murder

The largest study of gun violence in the United States, released Thursday afternoon, confirms a point that should be obvious: widespread American gun ownership is fueling America’s gun violence epidemic.

The study, by Professor Michael Siegel at Boston University and two coauthors, has been peer-reviewed and is forthcoming in the American Journal of Public Health. Siegel and his colleagues compiled data on firearm homicides from all 50 states from 1981-2010, the longest stretch of time ever studied in this fashion, and set about seeing whether they could find any relationship between changes in gun ownership and murder using guns over time.

Since we know that violent crime rates overall declined during that period of time, the authors used something called “fixed effect regression” to account for any national trend other than changes in gun ownership. They also employed the largest-ever number of statistical controls for other variables in this kind of gun study: “age, gender, race/ethnicity, urbanization, poverty, unemployment, income, education, income inequality, divorce rate, alcohol use, violent crime rate, nonviolent crime rate, hate crime rate, number of hunting licenses, age-adjusted nonfirearm homicide rate, incarceration rate,and suicide rate” were all accounted for.

No good data on national rates of gun ownership exist (partly because of the NRA’s stranglehold on Congress), so the authors used the percentage of suicides that involve a firearm (FS/S) as a proxy. The theory, backed up by a wealth of data, is that the more guns there are any in any one place, the higher the percentage of people who commit suicide with guns as opposed to other mechanisms will be.

With all this preliminary work in hand, the authors ran a series of regressions to see what effect the overall national decline in firearm ownership from 1981 to 2010 had on gun homicides. The result was staggering: “for each 1 percentage point increase in proportion of household gun ownership,” Siegel et al. found, “firearm homicide rate increased by 0.9″ percent. A one standard deviation change in firearm ownership shifted gun murders by a staggering 12.9 percent.

To put this in perspective, take the state of Mississippi. “All other factors being equal,” the authors write, “our model would predict that if the FS/S in Mississippi were 57.7% (the average for all states) instead of 76.8% (the highest of all states), its firearm homicide rate would be 17% lower.” Since 475 people were murdered with a gun in Mississippi in 2010, that drop in gun ownership would translate to 80 lives saved in that year alone.

Of course, the authors don’t find that rates of gun ownership explain all of America’s gun violence epidemic: race, economic inequality and generally violent areas all contribute to an area’s propensity for gun deaths, suggesting that broader social inequality, not gun ownership alone, contributes to the gun violence epidemic. Nevertheless, the fact that gun ownership mattered even when race and poverty were accounted for suggests that we can’t avoid talking about America’s fascination with guns when debating what to do about the roughly 11,000 Americans who are yearly murdered by gunfire.
 
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QueEx

Rising Star
Super Moderator
How Congress Blocked Research on Gun Violence

The ugly campaign by the NRA to shut down studies at the CDC.


The three (3) Constitutionally created branches of government, the legislative, the executive and the judiciary, are often referred to as the 3 Estates.

Of course, the Press, with the help of the First Amendment, became known as the Fourth Estate.

Now, we have the Fifth Estate. The NRA :( -- an un-elected corporation with the power to check Congress' ability to protect the American people.


And, there are those who have no problem with the Fifth Estate maintaining secret gun registries -- to help it keep Congress in check. :yes:







 

Fuckallyall

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The three (3) Constitutionally created branches of government, the legislative, the executive and the judiciary, are often referred to as the 3 Estates.

Of course, the Press, with the help of the First Amendment, became known as the Fourth Estate.

Now, we have the Fifth Estate. The NRA :( -- an un-elected corporation with the power to check Congress' ability to protect the American people.


And, there are those who have no problem with the Fifth Estate maintaining secret gun registries -- to help it keep Congress in check. :yes:








What bullshit. Then that means we have the Sixth Estate (Trial Lawyers) the Seventh Estate (Big Pharma) the Eigth Estate (Big Banking), etc...

A political interest does not equal an estate.

All this expounding you did about laws already exist. It is illegal to give somebody a gun to commit a crime with.

You are doing nothing but being a beggar to your own demise.

You are free to do that, but don't get your panties in a knot when I fight like hell to keep you from pulling me down with you.

I hate that we keep screaming about democracy. We are a constitution republic. A democracy put Jews in the ovens. A constitutional republic freed them.
 

olly1969

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AMMO prices are going down and I am stocking up again if you don't have a weapon a zombie might get you
 

QueEx

Rising Star
Super Moderator








PRECISELY!!!


Which is why you regulate people

Who can and who can't possess guns

who can and cannot sell or transfer guns

Who must register guns








  • Impose tighter gun registration requirements so that we can track how guns come into possession of those who shouldn't have them. Surely, if the NRA can have a "Secret Registration List" government can operate an open and public registration system, just as it does, largely without problem, with motor vehicle registration;

  • Impose penalties on those that cause or allow guns to come into the hands of those who shouldn't have them; and

  • Make those whose intentional or negligent conduct cause or allow guns to come to the hands of those who shouldn't have them civilly and/or criminally liable for the resulting harm.

  • That would be responsible gun control -- focusing on the those who kill or injure, since we all know that guns, in and of themselves, do neither.










What bullshit.



 

COINTELPRO

Transnational Member
Registered
My conspiracy theory on what happened....

He could have been harassed at these hotels he was staying at, which finally drove him to this mass shootings/suicide. Here a sample of tactics that could have been employed:

I have stayed at various hotels for an extended stay in the area and I am pretty sure cameras were put in the room. These cameras were utilized to enhance harassment. I would wake up and some noise would go off outside at the same time , or leave the room and somebody would leave their room at the same time. Having cameras put in your room is common fare in many authoritarian countries, I guess they are doing this in the U.S. now.

<iframe src="//player.vimeo.com/video/41841322" width="500" height="369" frameborder="0" webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen allowfullscreen></iframe> <p><a href="http://vimeo.com/41841322">US Diplomat 'Sex Tape'</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/user11529722">Matthew Cole</a> on <a href="https://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>

Finally, I would leave to grab something to eat and white color car would always go by, probably using the cameras to see that I was leaving. I went into this building and when I came back out a white color car would show up. I decided to see if this would happen again, so I entered four more times and the same color car would be outside when I came out. Hell, the day of this tragedy, encouraged by their success with this guy, attempted this tactic again, hoping to get a response or erratic behavior.

Staged car crashes...


Did this guy go through something like this that would drive him into mass shooting? I don't know... Somebody might not have wanted him in the area or on the job; and resorted to these tactics to get him to leave; however, it backfired and he killed 12 people. They might have even resorted to poisoning his food to raise his dopamine levels that would have caused voices in his head.


http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2013/images/09/17/alexis-report.pdf

His police report and complaint of harassment might have happened. .
 
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QueEx

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Super Moderator






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QueEx

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'A hole that just will never be filled':​
Portraits of the Navy Yard victims​



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Fuckallyall

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Sooo, your reasoning for passing more laws to restrict the rights of law abiders is the fact that the federal government could not keep a crazy man that they allowed in the military, then gave a secret government clearance which costs 15k a pop for the investigation, then allowed access to one of the most restricted buildings in the world, from shooting it up with weapons that he would have been allowed to have even if your laws would have been passed.

OOOOOOOOOOOkayyyyyyyyyyy...
 

QueEx

Rising Star
Super Moderator
Sooo, your reasoning for passing more laws to restrict the rights of law abiders is the fact that the federal government could not keep a crazy man that they allowed in the military, then gave a secret government clearance which costs 15k a pop for the investigation, then allowed access to one of the most restricted buildings in the world, from shooting it up with weapons that he would have been allowed to have even if your laws would have been passed.

OOOOOOOOOOOkayyyyyyyyyyy...

Is that your best reasoning :confused:

Is there any particular reason why you failed to connect the dots between a rational way of keeping track of people who should not have guns, i.e., the mentally ill -- and the sale, transfer and issuance of guns to those persons ???
 

Fuckallyall

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Is that your best reasoning :confused:

Is there any particular reason why you failed to connect the dots between a rational way of keeping track of people who should not have guns, i.e., the mentally ill -- and the sale, transfer and issuance of guns to those persons ???

Maybe it was just that you used a bad example with the Navy Yard shooter. I don't know of any state that does not have any of those laws on the books. I do not think any of the men (!) you have shown would have hit the threshold of the laws proposed.

I love in MD, who have just passed laws that make them the second worse fucktard state, behind a tie between NY & CA. Even with those laws, all of those men you've show would still be able to have strapped up and do their sick (or evil) deeds.

It's like limiting marriage become some couples are physically abusive.
 

muckraker10021

Superstar *****
BGOL Investor
.....A democracy put Jews in the ovens......


NO! Not correct.
Hitler seized power via the barrels of many guns wielded by his criminal gang the Sturmabteilung (SA) Brownshirts <img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dc/SA-Logo.svg/135px-SA-Logo.svg.png" width="50">
They used contract murders, terrorism, torture, and media propaganda to seize absolute power over Germany. A select group of the richest Germans at that time, the so-called German aristocrats, financed Hitler's terrorist 'Brownshirts' and his political campaigns.

Hitlers party the NAZI'S <img src="http://www.clker.com/cliparts/4/X/o/u/X/w/swastika-hi.png" width="50">
in a national German election, legitimately won a select number of seats in a multiparty German parliamentary system. In a parliamentary system coalitions are forged in order to form a governing majority. The current Chancellor of Germany Angela Merkel who just won re-election, must now cobble together a ruling coalition.

Hitler using brutish violence, systematic torture and murder, eliminated the other parties, including putting them to death in concentration camps.
Then Hitler "outlawed" the other parties and declared himself "The Fuhrer"- for life.


Watch the 4 minute video clip below then watch the entire 45 minute film, then download a copy if you want.


<embed width="460" height="280" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowFullscreen="true" allowNetworking="all" wmode="transparent" src="http://www.mejuba.com/member/flv/player.swf?flv=http://70.38.64.76/h/1/18e2422f-e5c3-4912-adf7-2aaf617aa53d.flv" flashvars="file=http://70.38.64.76/h/1/18e2422f-e5c3-4912-adf7-2aaf617aa53d.flv">


Watch the entire history documentary - Hitler’s Rise: The Color Films

http://delishows.com/hitlers-rise-the-colour-films-season-1-episode-2.html

Download

Code:
http://uploaded.net/file/sf7gfnmn
 

thoughtone

Rising Star
BGOL Investor
Maybe it was just that you used a bad example with the Navy Yard shooter. I don't know of any state that does not have any of those laws on the books. I do not think any of the men (!) you have shown would have hit the threshold of the laws proposed.

I love in MD, who have just passed laws that make them the second worse fucktard state, behind a tie between NY & CA. Even with those laws, all of those men you've show would still be able to have strapped up and do their sick (or evil) deeds.

It's like limiting marriage become some couples are physically abusive.


I love in MD, who have just passed laws that make them the second worse fucktard state, behind a tie between NY & CA.

Look at the gun crime rate in NYC verses Baltimore, a city over ten times larger. At some point the brain cells have to fire.
 

Fuckallyall

Support BGOL
Registered

NO! Not correct.
Hitler seized power via the barrels of many guns wielded by his criminal gang the Sturmabteilung (SA) Brownshirts <img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dc/SA-Logo.svg/135px-SA-Logo.svg.png" width="50">
They used contract murders, terrorism, torture, and media propaganda to seize absolute power over Germany. A select group of the richest Germans at that time, the so-called German aristocrats, financed Hitler's terrorist 'Brownshirts' and his political campaigns.

Hitlers party the NAZI'S <img src="http://www.clker.com/cliparts/4/X/o/u/X/w/swastika-hi.png" width="50">
in a national German election, legitimately won a select number of seats in a multiparty German parliamentary system. In a parliamentary system coalitions are forged in order to form a governing majority. The current Chancellor of Germany Angela Merkel who just won re-election, must now cobble together a ruling coalition.

Hitler using brutish violence, systematic torture and murder, eliminated the other parties, including putting them to death in concentration camps.
Then Hitler "outlawed" the other parties and declared himself "The Fuhrer"- for life.


Watch the 4 minute video clip below then watch the entire 45 minute film, then download a copy if you want.


<embed width="460" height="280" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowFullscreen="true" allowNetworking="all" wmode="transparent" src="http://www.mejuba.com/member/flv/player.swf?flv=http://70.38.64.76/h/1/18e2422f-e5c3-4912-adf7-2aaf617aa53d.flv" flashvars="file=http://70.38.64.76/h/1/18e2422f-e5c3-4912-adf7-2aaf617aa53d.flv">


Watch the entire history documentary - Hitler’s Rise: The Color Films

http://delishows.com/hitlers-rise-the-colour-films-season-1-episode-2.html

Download

Code:
http://uploaded.net/file/sf7gfnmn

I know this. However, the ultra-nationalistic and anti-semetic bent of the National Socialist Workers party (AKA NaZi's) made their platform known, just like the others. And they were freely elected twice while Hitler seized absolute power (as you state).

IMO, there has been some massaging of history by socialists on this issue in order to try to keep their intentions appearing more noble than they really are.
 

muckraker10021

Superstar *****
BGOL Investor
I know this. However, the ultra-nationalistic and anti-semetic bent of the National Socialist Workers party (AKA NaZi's) made their platform known, just like the others. And they were freely elected twice while Hitler seized absolute power (as you state).

IMO, there has been some massaging of history by socialists on this issue in order to try to keep their intentions appearing more noble than they really are.

All of the political parties in the German Reichstag (Parliament) in the 1920's were virulently anti-Semitic. This was due to the large World War I reparations $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ that Germany had to pay as the loser of the war. Jewish international bankers representing the "winners" of World War I at the Treaty of Versailles were widely seen throughout Germany as the ones that extracted and imposed such an onerous and punitive settlement on Germany. Germans were freezing in the winters because coal mined in Germany was shipped to France under the terms of The Treaty of Versailles. Jews were blamed for German suffering post World War I. The Nazis were just the most extreme anti-Semitic party in the Parliament. If you were a german voter in the 1920's there were no NON anti-Semitic party you could vote for. The Nazi's were just the most extreme, and after they seized power using terroism we all know they implemented "the final solution" for the Jews and others.
 

QueEx

Rising Star
Super Moderator
Maybe it was just that you used a bad example with the Navy Yard shooter. I don't know of any state that does not have any of those laws on the books. I do not think any of the men (!) you have shown would have hit the threshold of the laws proposed.

No. It was a very good example. We have many people walking around everyday with various mental illnesses, and we're not doing very much about it. Normally, ensuring that guns are less likely to get into the hands of the mentally ill is good policy. But good policy seems to get twisted into over-paranoia of government by some gun enthusiasts.
 

Greed

Star
Registered
No. It was a very good example. We have many people walking around everyday with various mental illnesses, and we're not doing very much about it. Normally, ensuring that guns are less likely to get into the hands of the mentally ill is good policy. But good policy seems to get twisted into over-paranoia of government by some gun enthusiasts.
As if the past debate ever focused on limiting the ability of the mentally ill to get guns.
 

QueEx

Rising Star
Super Moderator
So long as you exclude national registry as being part of the debate, you might be right.

But, as I recall:


Senate Defeats Background-Check Plan, Imperiling Gun Bill

By Heidi Przybyla & James Rowley
Apr 17, 2013 8:50 PM CT

The Senate defeated a plan to expand background checks for firearm purchasers, imperiling President Barack Obama’s bid for new gun-control measures four months after 20 schoolchildren were shot to death in Newtown, Connecticut.

Senators voted 54-46, with 60 needed to adopt the measure, as a handful of Democrats joined most Republicans in opposition. The vote was the most significant on gun control in 20 years and countered 90 percent public support of mandatory background checks.


National Registry

The NRA had said expanded background checks would lead to a national gun registry. Federal law bars such a registry, and licensed gun dealers have kept sales records since 1968.


the NRA through its control over Congress and the rest of the 2nd Amendment impurist keeps taking it out.


 

QueEx

Rising Star
Super Moderator
Yes, a national registry for everyone was the past debate. Not limited to the mentally ill.

Just like I said.

The mentally ill is a subset in "everyone" -- so you're wrong to say the mentally ill were not the subject of the national registry debate.

But, always try to leave yourself a way out now . . .


 

Greed

Star
Registered
The mentally ill is a subset in "everyone" -- so you're wrong to say the mentally ill were not the subject of the national registry debate.

But, always try to leave yourself a way out now . . .


Oh, then everything was covered.
 
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