yeah...shaq sucks
- Thread starter cranrab
- Start date
shaquille o'neal is DOMINATING the pistons right now... sorry eewwll...
his only weakness that i've spotted so far? slow to rotate on the pick/roll and slow to recover on successful hedges off the pick/roll...
but coach riley and coach askins have devised a BRILLIANT switching scheme with the PF (mostly antoine walker) to mask it...
his only weakness that i've spotted so far? slow to rotate on the pick/roll and slow to recover on successful hedges off the pick/roll...
but coach riley and coach askins have devised a BRILLIANT switching scheme with the PF (mostly antoine walker) to mask it...
cranrab said:
Shaq has been deferring to Wade and Kobe.........
You had a post similar to this last year around this time.
When will they learn....
The Heat better figure out that zone Detroit switched to for the series....
They have Billups figured out.........Whats up with Kapono?.......
Great Win.........
How did our boy do last night?....I'll bet LA is Kicking themselves in the ass once again
SpiritualPorn said:
yeah, i titled it shaquille o'neal is too old, too fat, too slow, or something to that effect.you know the funny thing is that i am NOT a shaquille o'neal fan. but god damn how stupid does an individual have to be to NOT recognize shaquille o'neal's abilities and impact on a game?
ROY
MVP
FINALS MVP
MULTIPLE FINALS APPEARANCES WITH DIFFERENT TEAMS
FINALS CHAMPION WITH DIFFERENT TEAMS
SINCE HE WAS BORN THERE HAVE BEEN ONLY TWO PLAYERS TO WIN THE SCORING TITLE AND A CHAMPIONSHIP IN THE SAME SEASON: MICHAEL JORDAN AND SHAQUILLE O'NEAL.
SELECTED AS ONE OF THE TOP 50 PLAYERS OF ALL TIME BEFORE HE FINISHED FOUR FULL SEASONS IN THE LEAGUE.
cranrab said:
you know the funny thing is that i am NOT a shaquille o'neal fan. but god damn how stupid does an individual have to be to NOT recognize shaquille o'neal's abilities and impact on a game?
ROY
MVP
FINALS MVP
MULTIPLE FINALS APPEARANCES WITH DIFFERENT TEAMS
FINALS CHAMPION WITH DIFFERENT TEAMS
SINCE HE WAS BORN THERE HAVE BEEN ONLY TWO PLAYERS TO WIN THE SCORING TITLE AND A CHAMPIONSHIP IN THE SAME SEASON: MICHAEL JORDAN AND SHAQUILLE O'NEAL.
SELECTED AS ONE OF THE TOP 50 PLAYERS OF ALL TIME BEFORE HE FINISHED FOUR FULL SEASONS IN THE LEAGUE.
I remember last years Cranalysis well......
This is why I said in the other thread that the Heat will get to the Finals...at that time Wade will have returned........Shaq .....given the challange...will lead a team and dominate the opposition.........
What really impresses me is his efficiency.........High FG %.........
On the expanded coverage here on the Sunshine Network it was said...(not exactly).......that for the 36 times he touched the ball the Heat scored on 29 of them....(don't quote me on this)....Tony Furiento a former Heat coach gives us real breakdowns...........The only time the game even got close was when it DIDNT go inside to SHAQ!
When Kobe makes his first round exit this year and the HEAT are in the Finals again the Kobe question will be dead and gone forever........
I don't think anyone would question if Shaq can still do the
job, I think the real question is how LONG will he be able to
sustain that kind of play at the age of 35.
At least that's my question.
Frankly, I can't see him playing 35 minutes a game for EVERY
SINGLE GAME at that level, PLUS carrying the Heat in the
playoffs. If he averages more than 25 minutes per game AND
plays in every single game AND averages 20 and 10 , I will be
very impressed.
If the Heat were able to rest Shaq and still make the playoffs,
they will be hell for any team in the first round....despite Riley
job, I think the real question is how LONG will he be able to
sustain that kind of play at the age of 35.
At least that's my question.
Frankly, I can't see him playing 35 minutes a game for EVERY
SINGLE GAME at that level, PLUS carrying the Heat in the
playoffs. If he averages more than 25 minutes per game AND
plays in every single game AND averages 20 and 10 , I will be
very impressed.
If the Heat were able to rest Shaq and still make the playoffs,
they will be hell for any team in the first round....despite Riley
RunawaySlave said:
and a fair question. shaquille o'neal's injury problems have been well documented. his size and increasing age are fair reasons for concern.
RunawaySlave said:
I agree with the minutes per game. I think once he gets his legs and wind right, I think the miami heat can comfortably expect 32 minutes per game from shaquille o'neal. the strategic wrinkle comes from your boy, coach riley. with fewer options on O, now relies on ball control (which i remember you have a tremendous dislike of).
TIME OUT TO FILL IN THE BLANKS FOR THE YOUNGER FAM:
for those that don't remember coach riley's days with the knicks 1992-95, he employed the same strategy then. the idea is that when you have few/limited offensive weapons/options, you reduce the number of alternating possessions so that the other team can NOT outscore you.
on the positive side, you see positive dividends in D (coach riley's knicks were rated #1 in FEWEST POINTS ALLOWED EVERY SEASON he coached there) with this philosophy. on the other hand, this style can be plodding, mechanical and lumbering, which results in MIDDLE OF THE ROAD offense that isn't terribly exciting.
BACK TO RUNAWAY SLAVE:
RunawaySlave said:
my personal feeling is that if shaquille o'neal remains healthy (regardless of what dwyane wade decides) through april 5th, we'll get a good look at what the heat will look like come playoffs time.
cranrab said:
Man. I already said.. given the possible matchup problems with Wallace and the fact that Shaq has historically bitch-smacked Chris Webber, it was possible... add that ol not adjustment making FLIP SAUNDERS to the equation matched up against Riley...and coaching can be the decisive factor.
But he will still have to DOMINATE an entire series to beat the Pistons in a 7 game series in the playoff where the Pistons will have home court advantage. However, if anyone can reach in and be dominant, it is Shaq.
People still sleep on Shaq(how i dont know) and WADE being out is only gonna really make Shaq show up because Shaq responds when people doubt him. ..truly a world class athlete.
Just like last year.. although the Pistons will probably end the season with the best record in the East... I do not think are talent will be enough to guarantee coming out of the East. And usually if talent is not the deciding factor, coaching will be...and Riley can outcoach Saunders in his sleep.
eewwll said:
Like I predicted:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17317565/
MIAMI - Dwyane Wade will try to come back this season.
The Miami Heat guard said Monday he has decided to delay surgery and rehabilitate his dislocated left shoulder with the goal of returning for the playoffs.
“My decision for the next two to three weeks is to rehab with the possibility of coming back, but with no guarantee,” Wade said. “I’ll find out after therapy and rehab how my body responds to things.”
Story continues below ↓
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Wade was hurt Feb. 21 at Houston. He underwent extensive tests and received a second opinion Friday from specialist Dr. James Andrews before deciding he would try to return.
“The fact there’s a possibility would give us hope,” coach Pat Riley said. “He’s a pretty good player. He probably would be a pretty good player one-armed.”
The defending NBA champion Heat, plagued by injuries all season, enter Monday night’s game against Atlanta at 29-29 and are in danger of missing the playoffs.
They’re 3-2 since Wade was hurt when he collided with Houston’s Shane Battier. The All-Star guard tore his labrum, dislocated his shoulder and left the court in a wheelchair hunched over in pain.
At the time, he was the league’s third-leading scorer, averaging 28.8 points.
Wade said the decision to return was difficult, even though Andrews and team physician Dr. Harlan Selesnick supported the idea. Wade said he was told he can’t further damage his shoulder by playing, although another dislocation is possible.
“The main thing I can do is feel that same pain again. That’s one thing I don’t want to feel,” he said with a smile.
“It could have been easy for me just to shut it down. You don’t know if you’re going to be able to attack the same way and dive on the floor the same way. I’ll find out after therapy and rehab how my body responds to things.”
Wade is still wearing a sling when he sleeps to keep the shoulder stable.
Slide show: The Week in Sports Pictures
• Week in Sports Pictures
Slamming sluggers, soaring stars, frenzied fans and more
He said he might be able to return for the last couple of regular-season games before the playoffs start April 21. Even if he does come back, he’s still expected to have surgery after the season, with the recovery time estimated at four to six months.
Riley said the organization didn’t try to influence Wade’s decision.
“He’s a warrior. He’s a soldier. And these are his guys,” Riley said. “The doctors are world-renowned, and they said he can go forward this way. This is what you do when you’re a defending champion. He has made the decision to try to rehab it and hopefully help the team, and he should be admired for that.”
Riley said he’s confident Wade can alter his slashing, acrobatic playing style as necessary to protect his shoulder.
“He has a tremendous amount of skill and awareness and smarts,” Riley said. “Whatever adjustment would have to be made, I think he would make the adjustment and still be pretty effective.”
TimRock said:
You are right Tim
I'll just be glad when the media quits trying to sell me that shit.....
Damn near the whole halftime was taken up with a Kobe image rehab special
Shaquille O'neal Arrested
Shaquille O'neal Was Arrested Outside American Airlines Arena This Evening Following The Miami Heat Game Against The Chicago Bulls
miami police had to call in back up and reinforcements from neighboring counties because they lacked sufficient manpower to record all of the 19,600 eyewitness accounts.
the incident, caught on live video allegedly involves shaquille o'neal removing his shorts and urinating on the entire chicago bulls team. according to several eyewitnesses, the alleged incident lasted for an amazing 32 minutes.
chicago citizens interviewed for this story wondered how long they would have to watch the abuse, as the miami heat center scored a game high 24 points and a tallied a game high 8 assists.
the shocking video continued to be broadcast in several regions, with chicago bulls fans agonizing out loud "when will it end?".
Shaquille O'neal Was Arrested Outside American Airlines Arena This Evening Following The Miami Heat Game Against The Chicago Bulls
miami police had to call in back up and reinforcements from neighboring counties because they lacked sufficient manpower to record all of the 19,600 eyewitness accounts.
the incident, caught on live video allegedly involves shaquille o'neal removing his shorts and urinating on the entire chicago bulls team. according to several eyewitnesses, the alleged incident lasted for an amazing 32 minutes.
chicago citizens interviewed for this story wondered how long they would have to watch the abuse, as the miami heat center scored a game high 24 points and a tallied a game high 8 assists.
the shocking video continued to be broadcast in several regions, with chicago bulls fans agonizing out loud "when will it end?".
Re: Shaquille O'neal Arrested
Article to follow up on the Cranrab post
Heat 5-2 with WADE out.
http://www.nba.com/games/20070307/CHIMIA/recap.html
Article to follow up on the Cranrab post
Heat 5-2 with WADE out.
http://www.nba.com/games/20070307/CHIMIA/recap.html
cranrab said:
The strategy of running the shit clock down to 3 or 4 second on
EVERY single possession?? Yes, it grates on my nerves. Especially
when you have young greyhounds built for speed. Altanta Hawks
comes to mind these days. They run the ball, they shed this "grind
it out" style for something more uptempo, with the speed and power
they got in Josh and the Landlord, they probably win 50 games.
I don't mind that style if you got a Shaq, or a dominant center.....
but it don't work for all personnel and Riley does it no matter WHO
is on his team. So does his disciple, Van Blundy
SpiritualPorn said:
I really do hope Wade does NOT decide to force the issue
and come back too soon. As much as I like his game and want
to see them try to repeat, I would rather he be more concerned
with the long range ramifications of such an injury and not be
influenced by retarding shit like:
Pat Riley said:
Fuck that half dead mutha fugga Dwayne. Don't listen to that
BS. Where that fool gonna be when you're 45-50 and you can't
raise your arm above your head?? On the tube getting paid to talk
about waht a "warrior" you were? Fuck that. You ain't got shit to
prove to that bitch.
Re: Shaquille O'neal Arrested
I was there......
Eddie Jones was arrested for a "Unlawful Defecation" in a related incident.
Antoine Walker was to bust a nut however he fucked up and dribbled.
Posey was also Charged.
cranrab said:
I was there......
Eddie Jones was arrested for a "Unlawful Defecation" in a related incident.
Antoine Walker was to bust a nut however he fucked up and dribbled.
Posey was also Charged.
Re: Shaquille O'neal Arrested
assist:
Miami 103, Chicago 70 (F)
MIAMI, March 7 (AP)-- What was once a huge early lead had been whittled to a mere three points, most of the Chicago Bulls' reserves were on their feet and the Miami Heat appeared to be in serious trouble.
That is, until the Heat put together perhaps their most emphatic 14 minutes of the season.
Shaquille O'Neal had 24 points, nine rebounds and a season-high eight assists, Eddie Jones added 23 points and Miami outscored Chicago 38-9 over a decisive second-half spurt to beat the Bulls 103-70 on Wednesday night, the first Heat win in four meetings between the clubs this season.
"They've been a little bit more serious in playing us than we were in playing them,'' O'Neal said. "So we knew that we owed this team. They hate us for some reason, which is fine. They use as one of their stepping stones, so we had to let them know that we're still here.''
Jones (14) and Antoine Walker (11) both outscored the Bulls' roster during that clinching stretch. Chicago was 0-for-10 with five turnovers in the final 5+ minutes of the third quarter and 3-for-20 over the full run, with Miami's defensive effort punctuated by Alonzo Mourning erasing Tyrus Thomas' dunk try.
The Heat got a measure of revenge for the 108-66 loss Chicago put on them in Miami on opening night, spoiling Miami's championship-banner-and-ring ceremony.
"That was a message, loud and clear,'' Bulls coach Scott Skiles said.
Walker had 14 points, 10 rebounds and five assists, while Udonis Haslem added 12 points for the Heat - who've won 10 straight at home and moved within three games of Washington in the Southeast Division.
Ben Gordon, who was coming off a 48-point effort against Milwaukee, had 14 points on 6-for-18 shooting for Chicago. Chris Duhon added 12 and Kirk Hinrich had 11 for the Bulls, who had a three-game winning streak snapped.
"We just weren't playing very smart out there,'' Hinrich said. "I don't know how else to explain it.''
Miami improved to 5-2 since Dwyane Wade dislocated his left shoulder. Wade, the reigning NBA Finals MVP, watched the game from the bench with his teammates for the first time since he was injured last month.
Jones, who scored 14 in the fourth, established a season high in scoring for the second straight game, and also set season-bests in 3-pointers (six), assists (six) and field goals (eight).
Playing without Jason Kapono, the NBA's leading 3-point shooter who sprained his ankle Monday and will miss at least 10 days, the Heat hit 10-of-23 from behind the arc, and held Chicago to 35 percent shooting.
James Posey started in Kapono's place and finished with seven points and six rebounds, plus took six charges.
"They just dominated us in three games. They, like, toyed with us,'' Heat coach Pat Riley said. "Somewhere, regardless of what the situations were with injuries or whatever, you've got to confront and compete with a team like them who you're vying with for position in the conference. Our guys took that to heart.''
The Heat started with seven unanswered points, their best game-opening run of the season, and led 28-9 after Jason Williams' layup with 2:02 left in the first quarter. The biggest reason for that early lead was O'Neal, who was simply dominant from the tip, with eight points and five assists in the first 9 minutes.
"They came out,'' Skiles said, "and their effort just hit us in the face.''
The Bulls got within 40-32 when Hinrich scored twice in a 71-second span midway through the second quarter. Miami, fueled by three more baskets from O'Neal, went on a 10-3 run over the next 2+ minutes and settled for a 52-43 lead at the break.
Chicago got within 56-53 on Hinrich's 3-pointer with 5:30 left in the third, but it was all Miami from there.
"If we continue to play defense the way we've been playing ... who knows what can happen,'' Jones said.
Notes: Posey took charges on two straight Chicago trips in the third quarter, then did it again on successive Bulls possessions in the fourth. ... Ben Wallace is still wearing a bandage over his right eye, courtesy of the cut he suffered against Milwaukee on Sunday. ... The Heat went over the 12 million mark in all-time home attendance. ... Riley denied accusing Hinrich of trying to hurt Wade when the teams met earlier in Chicago. Wade suffered a sprained wrist when Hinrich grabbed him during the first quarter of a December meeting. "Just like the Chicago Bulls whine about Dwyane always getting too many free throws, a great defender like Kirk Hinrich gets away with everything,'' Riley said.
Copyright 2006 by STATS LLC and Associated Press. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of STATS LLC and Associated Press is strictly prohibited
eewwll said:
assist:
Miami 103, Chicago 70 (F)
MIAMI, March 7 (AP)-- What was once a huge early lead had been whittled to a mere three points, most of the Chicago Bulls' reserves were on their feet and the Miami Heat appeared to be in serious trouble.
That is, until the Heat put together perhaps their most emphatic 14 minutes of the season.
Shaquille O'Neal had 24 points, nine rebounds and a season-high eight assists, Eddie Jones added 23 points and Miami outscored Chicago 38-9 over a decisive second-half spurt to beat the Bulls 103-70 on Wednesday night, the first Heat win in four meetings between the clubs this season.
"They've been a little bit more serious in playing us than we were in playing them,'' O'Neal said. "So we knew that we owed this team. They hate us for some reason, which is fine. They use as one of their stepping stones, so we had to let them know that we're still here.''
Jones (14) and Antoine Walker (11) both outscored the Bulls' roster during that clinching stretch. Chicago was 0-for-10 with five turnovers in the final 5+ minutes of the third quarter and 3-for-20 over the full run, with Miami's defensive effort punctuated by Alonzo Mourning erasing Tyrus Thomas' dunk try.
The Heat got a measure of revenge for the 108-66 loss Chicago put on them in Miami on opening night, spoiling Miami's championship-banner-and-ring ceremony.
"That was a message, loud and clear,'' Bulls coach Scott Skiles said.
Walker had 14 points, 10 rebounds and five assists, while Udonis Haslem added 12 points for the Heat - who've won 10 straight at home and moved within three games of Washington in the Southeast Division.
Ben Gordon, who was coming off a 48-point effort against Milwaukee, had 14 points on 6-for-18 shooting for Chicago. Chris Duhon added 12 and Kirk Hinrich had 11 for the Bulls, who had a three-game winning streak snapped.
"We just weren't playing very smart out there,'' Hinrich said. "I don't know how else to explain it.''
Miami improved to 5-2 since Dwyane Wade dislocated his left shoulder. Wade, the reigning NBA Finals MVP, watched the game from the bench with his teammates for the first time since he was injured last month.
Jones, who scored 14 in the fourth, established a season high in scoring for the second straight game, and also set season-bests in 3-pointers (six), assists (six) and field goals (eight).
Playing without Jason Kapono, the NBA's leading 3-point shooter who sprained his ankle Monday and will miss at least 10 days, the Heat hit 10-of-23 from behind the arc, and held Chicago to 35 percent shooting.
James Posey started in Kapono's place and finished with seven points and six rebounds, plus took six charges.
"They just dominated us in three games. They, like, toyed with us,'' Heat coach Pat Riley said. "Somewhere, regardless of what the situations were with injuries or whatever, you've got to confront and compete with a team like them who you're vying with for position in the conference. Our guys took that to heart.''
The Heat started with seven unanswered points, their best game-opening run of the season, and led 28-9 after Jason Williams' layup with 2:02 left in the first quarter. The biggest reason for that early lead was O'Neal, who was simply dominant from the tip, with eight points and five assists in the first 9 minutes.
"They came out,'' Skiles said, "and their effort just hit us in the face.''
The Bulls got within 40-32 when Hinrich scored twice in a 71-second span midway through the second quarter. Miami, fueled by three more baskets from O'Neal, went on a 10-3 run over the next 2+ minutes and settled for a 52-43 lead at the break.
Chicago got within 56-53 on Hinrich's 3-pointer with 5:30 left in the third, but it was all Miami from there.
"If we continue to play defense the way we've been playing ... who knows what can happen,'' Jones said.
Notes: Posey took charges on two straight Chicago trips in the third quarter, then did it again on successive Bulls possessions in the fourth. ... Ben Wallace is still wearing a bandage over his right eye, courtesy of the cut he suffered against Milwaukee on Sunday. ... The Heat went over the 12 million mark in all-time home attendance. ... Riley denied accusing Hinrich of trying to hurt Wade when the teams met earlier in Chicago. Wade suffered a sprained wrist when Hinrich grabbed him during the first quarter of a December meeting. "Just like the Chicago Bulls whine about Dwyane always getting too many free throws, a great defender like Kirk Hinrich gets away with everything,'' Riley said.
Copyright 2006 by STATS LLC and Associated Press. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of STATS LLC and Associated Press is strictly prohibited
time machine
for anyone interested in reading some people's opinions about the same subject last year around this same time, click the link:
http://198.65.131.81/board/showpost.php?p=1052340&postcount=1
for anyone interested in reading some people's opinions about the same subject last year around this same time, click the link:
http://198.65.131.81/board/showpost.php?p=1052340&postcount=1
Re: time machine
assist
http://198.65.131.81/board/showthread.php?t=88266
The link you posted goes to one specific post instead of the thread
assist
http://198.65.131.81/board/showthread.php?t=88266
The link you posted goes to one specific post instead of the thread
From the Inside Hoops Message Board:
Let me say this first before anyone gets the wrong idea...
I am not...repeat...NOT saying Shaq is as good as he was in his prime.
One more time....
I do not believe...and am not trying to imply...that current Shaq is as good as prime Shaq. Just a bunch of numbers that prove nothing that I just feel are interesting to see. I know a lot of people have good numbers spread over ____ minutes. But im talking about Shaq for the moment.
Now.
The thought of shaq in his prime is just unstoppable scoring dominance. And its accurate. seemed he just made shot after shot and couldnt be stopped. But watching him in Miami it doesnt feel that way. Going back to his last Shaqlike production season. A rounded off 28/11 year in 03. He averaged 10 made shots a game. 10.4 to be exact. In 38 minutes. First year in Miami when so many claimed hed fallen off? 9. In 34 minutes. Last year? 8. In 30 minutes. This year its lower due to injury of course but over his last 15 games? 8 in 27 minutes. The difference in current Shaqs shot making and 28 a game shaq....2 layups in over 10 more minutes to do it.
The biggest difference in his production is minutes and FT shooting. Not what hes able to do when he gets the ball compared to what he could do 10 years ago. In fact 10 years ago(1997) he averaged 11.4 shots made per 40 minutes and he was at 10.6 last year despite less shots per minute.
Id like to show you his production over the last 3 years spread over his prime minutes. 2000 being his best year and a year he played a simple flat 40 minutes a game...ill use it.
First year in miami he put up the first 23/10/60% shooting season by a center since Kareem in the mid 70s and joined him and Wilt as the only centers to ever do it. So it can really stand on its own....but still...
Spread over 40 minutes a game?
27/12/3 assists and 3 blocks.
Second season in Miami?
26/12
This years last 15 games? 8 shots made in 27 minutes a game. 18ppg. 7.9 rebounds so ill just say 8 to be simple. 40 minute average of 27 points a game on 11.8 field goals. 11.6 rebounds. So in the last 15 games...his production spread over the 40 minutes he played in 2000 is 27/12. But he took 21 shots over that time in 2000. 19 now.
Shaq has deferred to his teammates more and shoots less for the time he plays. Yet still he produces at a rate steady with the Shaq we used to know. Not per game. But as far as what he can do once you give him the ball...how much of a difference is there really?
Maybe the reason his impact is still so huge is because despite his decline if you give him the ball he scores at the same basic rate. I admit when I watch Heat games I see him miss a couple easy shots and think "How could he miss that?" and at the end hes shot like 8 of 12. With the ease of his shots it feels like he should make all of them. but he is shooting 63% his last 15 games so maybe he makes enough afterall.
Shaq if played the way he used to could probably score at the same rate or close to it and thats with his getting the ball less and with his worse FT shooting(He shot 62 in his last big scoring season).
The decline in Shaqs production I dont believe is as much what he can do when he has the ball as it is the following things:
The minutes he can play at his age
The fact that he shoots less when he does play since he plays for his teammates more
His FT shooting being down 15-20 points.
All relevant. And nothing to ignore. But it seems to me that Shaq is still as able to put the ball in the basket as he was years ago. He cant do it in as spectacular a fashion. but you give him the ball and say score...the difference in his ability to do it isnt nearly as big as the difference in his actual production. his production difference seem to be things that arent related to what he does on the floor and with the ball. More how long he does it and the fact that Miami uses him as a decoy more often than LA did.
In the last 2 years Miami was on a 60 and 58 win pace in games he played and were leading with a minute to go in the conference finals game 7(where he dominated and didnt get the ball when it mattered) and then won the title the next year. He doesnt have his input credited much but he did get 30/20 and like 28/16 to close out the Bulls and Pistons. And anyone who watched the finals knows that while Wade earned the finals MVP...Shaq being defended the way he was sure as hell helped.
**** even this year the Heat are on a 54.6 win pace in games he played more than 15 minutes in(18 of them).
Maybe the reason his impact on winning is still so major is because in his prime he was more dominant than he neeeded to be to win. And now that hes declined hes only....just as dominant as he has to be. 40/20 in the playoffs is great. But its damn near overkill. Shaq isnt capable of being overkill dominant anymore. But it seems to me hes still able to be "Just enough" dominant.
Let me say this first before anyone gets the wrong idea...
I am not...repeat...NOT saying Shaq is as good as he was in his prime.
One more time....
I do not believe...and am not trying to imply...that current Shaq is as good as prime Shaq. Just a bunch of numbers that prove nothing that I just feel are interesting to see. I know a lot of people have good numbers spread over ____ minutes. But im talking about Shaq for the moment.
Now.
The thought of shaq in his prime is just unstoppable scoring dominance. And its accurate. seemed he just made shot after shot and couldnt be stopped. But watching him in Miami it doesnt feel that way. Going back to his last Shaqlike production season. A rounded off 28/11 year in 03. He averaged 10 made shots a game. 10.4 to be exact. In 38 minutes. First year in Miami when so many claimed hed fallen off? 9. In 34 minutes. Last year? 8. In 30 minutes. This year its lower due to injury of course but over his last 15 games? 8 in 27 minutes. The difference in current Shaqs shot making and 28 a game shaq....2 layups in over 10 more minutes to do it.
The biggest difference in his production is minutes and FT shooting. Not what hes able to do when he gets the ball compared to what he could do 10 years ago. In fact 10 years ago(1997) he averaged 11.4 shots made per 40 minutes and he was at 10.6 last year despite less shots per minute.
Id like to show you his production over the last 3 years spread over his prime minutes. 2000 being his best year and a year he played a simple flat 40 minutes a game...ill use it.
First year in miami he put up the first 23/10/60% shooting season by a center since Kareem in the mid 70s and joined him and Wilt as the only centers to ever do it. So it can really stand on its own....but still...
Spread over 40 minutes a game?
27/12/3 assists and 3 blocks.
Second season in Miami?
26/12
This years last 15 games? 8 shots made in 27 minutes a game. 18ppg. 7.9 rebounds so ill just say 8 to be simple. 40 minute average of 27 points a game on 11.8 field goals. 11.6 rebounds. So in the last 15 games...his production spread over the 40 minutes he played in 2000 is 27/12. But he took 21 shots over that time in 2000. 19 now.
Shaq has deferred to his teammates more and shoots less for the time he plays. Yet still he produces at a rate steady with the Shaq we used to know. Not per game. But as far as what he can do once you give him the ball...how much of a difference is there really?
Maybe the reason his impact is still so huge is because despite his decline if you give him the ball he scores at the same basic rate. I admit when I watch Heat games I see him miss a couple easy shots and think "How could he miss that?" and at the end hes shot like 8 of 12. With the ease of his shots it feels like he should make all of them. but he is shooting 63% his last 15 games so maybe he makes enough afterall.
Shaq if played the way he used to could probably score at the same rate or close to it and thats with his getting the ball less and with his worse FT shooting(He shot 62 in his last big scoring season).
The decline in Shaqs production I dont believe is as much what he can do when he has the ball as it is the following things:
The minutes he can play at his age
The fact that he shoots less when he does play since he plays for his teammates more
His FT shooting being down 15-20 points.
All relevant. And nothing to ignore. But it seems to me that Shaq is still as able to put the ball in the basket as he was years ago. He cant do it in as spectacular a fashion. but you give him the ball and say score...the difference in his ability to do it isnt nearly as big as the difference in his actual production. his production difference seem to be things that arent related to what he does on the floor and with the ball. More how long he does it and the fact that Miami uses him as a decoy more often than LA did.
In the last 2 years Miami was on a 60 and 58 win pace in games he played and were leading with a minute to go in the conference finals game 7(where he dominated and didnt get the ball when it mattered) and then won the title the next year. He doesnt have his input credited much but he did get 30/20 and like 28/16 to close out the Bulls and Pistons. And anyone who watched the finals knows that while Wade earned the finals MVP...Shaq being defended the way he was sure as hell helped.
**** even this year the Heat are on a 54.6 win pace in games he played more than 15 minutes in(18 of them).
Maybe the reason his impact on winning is still so major is because in his prime he was more dominant than he neeeded to be to win. And now that hes declined hes only....just as dominant as he has to be. 40/20 in the playoffs is great. But its damn near overkill. Shaq isnt capable of being overkill dominant anymore. But it seems to me hes still able to be "Just enough" dominant.
the "world's greatest player" couldn't beat the minnesota timberwolves, but an old, lazy out of shape bum like shaquille o'neal can?
what's this world coming to?
who da hell he think he is? going 13-16 FGAs (81%) for a game high 32 points and 9 rebounds. on the downside, shaquille o'neal DID have a disgusting GAME HIGH 6 TOs 
.
6-2 (.750) since dwyane wade has been out.
what's this world coming to?
who da hell he think he is? going 13-16 FGAs (81%)
for a game high 32 points and 9 rebounds. on the downside, shaquille o'neal DID have a disgusting GAME HIGH 6 TOs .6-2 (.750) since dwyane wade has been out.
cranrab said:the "world's greatest player" couldn't beat the minnesota timberwolves, but an old, lazy out of shape bum like shaquille o'neal can?
what's this world coming to?
who da hell he think he is? going 13-16 FGAs (81%)
6-2 (.750) since dwyane wade has been out.
Not to mention the screens he set for JWIll to open him up for about two threes.....
Not to mention scoring timely baskets to stem runs by the other team....
Not to mention the double teams he commanded. Minn initially tried to play Shaq one on one until he lit them up for 15 IN THE FIRST QUARTER!!!!!!!!!.....From there they went to the double and left EJ and JWILL open...........
The greatest player in the game was getting schooled by AI in Philly like I knew he would......
Not to mention Shaq's "Perimiter D" that causes hell when he flashes out there..........
Not to mention he keeps his teammates involved from the center position...
Shaq is fat and out of shape........I'm sure the more he keeps Shitting on LA and Kobe by proving them wrong he'll lose the weight
Diamels said:
Ya know!?!?!?!?!/
If he had a decent point guard they would have won that series
what does charley rosen think?
For all the credit Dwayne Wade gets, who do you think is truly more valuable, Wade or Shaq? Does the Heat's recent hot streak prove that Shaq is the key player, or was it just a lucky run? Personally I think Shaq is Miami's MVP, and the proof is that he's won a total of four championships with two different teams. What's your take? — Guive, Boston
I wholeheartedly concur. Aside from the individual skills involved, big men tend to be more valuable than guards and wings. That's because when a big man gets the ball he's usually only a step or two away from the basket. Since short-range shots (even when taken by a bricklayer like Shaq) tend to be much more accurate than long-range shots, the defense is usually much more at risk when Shaq has the ball than when Wade has it. With the ball so close to the target, the defense has to make adjustments that are extremely radical and that have to be accomplished in a crisis mode. These emergency measures always leave the defense much more vulnerable than do double-teams applied to wings, baselines and/or elbows.
The ball, of course, can be moved more rapidly than can a player, so when pivot-men are two-timed clever passwork can always find open perimeter shooters or unguarded cutters. And Shaq happens to be a better-than-average passer.
Even if Shaq doesn't have the ball, defenses must always be aware of where he is in relation to the ball, and must be prepared to make the proper adjustments as Shaq and the ball move in tandem. These constant adjustments and re-adjustments (ad infinitum) invariably create free spaces and empty lanes that can be used to full advantage by Shaq's teammates.
This is not to in any way undervalue the heart and skills of D-Wade. All I'm saying is that Shaq's mere presence creates more scoring opportunities for Wade then the other way around.
For all the credit Dwayne Wade gets, who do you think is truly more valuable, Wade or Shaq? Does the Heat's recent hot streak prove that Shaq is the key player, or was it just a lucky run? Personally I think Shaq is Miami's MVP, and the proof is that he's won a total of four championships with two different teams. What's your take? — Guive, Boston
I wholeheartedly concur. Aside from the individual skills involved, big men tend to be more valuable than guards and wings. That's because when a big man gets the ball he's usually only a step or two away from the basket. Since short-range shots (even when taken by a bricklayer like Shaq) tend to be much more accurate than long-range shots, the defense is usually much more at risk when Shaq has the ball than when Wade has it. With the ball so close to the target, the defense has to make adjustments that are extremely radical and that have to be accomplished in a crisis mode. These emergency measures always leave the defense much more vulnerable than do double-teams applied to wings, baselines and/or elbows.
The ball, of course, can be moved more rapidly than can a player, so when pivot-men are two-timed clever passwork can always find open perimeter shooters or unguarded cutters. And Shaq happens to be a better-than-average passer.
Even if Shaq doesn't have the ball, defenses must always be aware of where he is in relation to the ball, and must be prepared to make the proper adjustments as Shaq and the ball move in tandem. These constant adjustments and re-adjustments (ad infinitum) invariably create free spaces and empty lanes that can be used to full advantage by Shaq's teammates.
This is not to in any way undervalue the heart and skills of D-Wade. All I'm saying is that Shaq's mere presence creates more scoring opportunities for Wade then the other way around.
Are you still sucking the fat mans dick cuzz?
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=270324014
Shaq needs some more icy hot, cause all the energy he "saved" while tanking the first part of the season is used up.
That bitch needs a senzu bean or something.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=270324014
Shaq needs some more icy hot, cause all the energy he "saved" while tanking the first part of the season is used up.
That bitch needs a senzu bean or something.
cranrab said:
That game was won last night
Miami lost the lead in the 4th
As I was driving home the sports station was broadcasting live from the hard rock .
Shaq was having yet ANOTHER BDay party...........
We'll see
shaquille o'neal v. atlanta hawks
don't look now, but the miami heat just took over THIRD place in the eastern seedings. HOME COURT ADVANTAGE.
"They exposed us inside with Shaq," Hawks coach Mike Woodson said. "Everything went through Shaq. We got in foul trouble and he made his free throws."
The Hawks sent Miami to the line a season-high-tying 45 times, largely because of their penchant for surrounding - then clobbering - O'Neal.
Lorenzen Wright started at center against O'Neal, and picked up four fouls in his seven minutes. Shelden Williams came off the bench, drawing four fouls in 15 minutes. Esteban Batista was called for five fouls in 13 minutes spent primarily guarding Miami's biggest man, and hit O'Neal so often in the third quarter that Jason Williams turned to the scorer's table and asked how many infractions he was allowed.
In the fourth, the Hawks asked Solomon Jones to take a turn - and he promptly fouled O'Neal four times in five minutes
don't look now, but the miami heat just took over THIRD place in the eastern seedings. HOME COURT ADVANTAGE.
"They exposed us inside with Shaq," Hawks coach Mike Woodson said. "Everything went through Shaq. We got in foul trouble and he made his free throws."
The Hawks sent Miami to the line a season-high-tying 45 times, largely because of their penchant for surrounding - then clobbering - O'Neal.
Lorenzen Wright started at center against O'Neal, and picked up four fouls in his seven minutes. Shelden Williams came off the bench, drawing four fouls in 15 minutes. Esteban Batista was called for five fouls in 13 minutes spent primarily guarding Miami's biggest man, and hit O'Neal so often in the third quarter that Jason Williams turned to the scorer's table and asked how many infractions he was allowed.
In the fourth, the Hawks asked Solomon Jones to take a turn - and he promptly fouled O'Neal four times in five minutes
Re: shaquille o'neal v. atlanta hawks
35 years old and they still must use the "Hack a Shaq"?????
That says a lot
This is without Wade mind you
BTW...If you get a chance ....How did Kobe react to tha Gasol elbow to the face...........?
And the main board doesn't see Karma
cranrab said:don't look now, but the miami heat just took over THIRD place in the eastern seedings. HOME COURT ADVANTAGE.
"They exposed us inside with Shaq," Hawks coach Mike Woodson said. "Everything went through Shaq. We got in foul trouble and he made his free throws."
The Hawks sent Miami to the line a season-high-tying 45 times, largely because of their penchant for surrounding - then clobbering - O'Neal.
Lorenzen Wright started at center against O'Neal, and picked up four fouls in his seven minutes. Shelden Williams came off the bench, drawing four fouls in 15 minutes. Esteban Batista was called for five fouls in 13 minutes spent primarily guarding Miami's biggest man, and hit O'Neal so often in the third quarter that Jason Williams turned to the scorer's table and asked how many infractions he was allowed.
In the fourth, the Hawks asked Solomon Jones to take a turn - and he promptly fouled O'Neal four times in five minutes
35 years old and they still must use the "Hack a Shaq"?????
That says a lot
This is without Wade mind you
BTW...If you get a chance ....How did Kobe react to tha Gasol elbow to the face...........?
And the main board doesn't see Karma
Re: shaquille o'neal v. atlanta hawks
is someone calling that a 'bow?
it wasn't even close to an elbow. tobe slapped at the ball (cleanly) from behind pau gasol and knocked it loose. pau gasol instinctively tried to push off to keep the defender away from the ball and caught tobe in the face with the back of his hand.
EDIT:
re: the shaquille o'neal performance against the hawks. SEVENTEEN fouls committed against ONE player.
SpiritualPorn said:
is someone calling that a 'bow?
it wasn't even close to an elbow. tobe slapped at the ball (cleanly) from behind pau gasol and knocked it loose. pau gasol instinctively tried to push off to keep the defender away from the ball and caught tobe in the face with the back of his hand.
EDIT:
re: the shaquille o'neal performance against the hawks. SEVENTEEN fouls committed against ONE player.
Re: shaquille o'neal v. atlanta hawks
Thats what I get for ESPNNING
Wasn't dirty to me at all
Just thought it was ironic
cranrab said:
Thats what I get for ESPNNING
Wasn't dirty to me at all
Just thought it was ironic
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