Who should MDs let die in a pandemic? Report offers answers

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How to Ration Flu Vaccines

If We Must Ration
Vaccines for a Flu,
Who Calls the Shots?
By SHARON BEGLEY
October 6, 2006; Page B1

You have 100 doses of a vaccine against a deadly strain of influenza that is sweeping the country, with no prospect of obtaining more. Standing in line are 100 schoolchildren and 100 elderly people.

The elderly are more likely to die if they catch the flu. But they also have fewer years left to live and don't get out enough to easily spread or catch the disease. The kids are more likely to act like little Typhoid Marys, sneezing virus over anyone they encounter, and have almost their whole life ahead of them. But they're also less likely to die if they get sick.

Whom do you vaccinate?

This dilemma is haunting experts concerned that avian influenza might start spreading from person to person instead of (as far as we know) mainly from birds to people. But it also applies to regular old flu, which always has the potential to reach pandemic proportions. In response, studies now are shedding light on the ethical issues and the most effective strategy for reducing illness and death if vaccine must be rationed. Sadly, they make a pretty good case that current U.S. policies leave a lot to be desired.

First, ethics. In May, scientists at the National Institutes of Health stirred things up with a paper calling into question the policy that aims to save the most lives by first vaccinating the old, the very young and the sick, putting last those who are two to 64 years of age.

The value of a life, they argued, depends on age. A 60-year-old has invested a lot (measured by education and experience) in his life, but has also reaped most of the returns. A child has minimal investment. A 20-year-old has great investment but has reaped almost none of the returns. Conclusion: To maximize investment in a life plus years of life left, 13- to 40-year-olds should have first claim on rationed vaccine, explains NIH's Ezekiel Emanuel.

Second, efficacy. Let's leave aside the fraught question of the value of a life. Evidence keeps accumulating that vaccinating the elderly might not even be the best strategy for minimizing deaths. The reason is that during some flu pandemics, the mortality rate among the elderly is hardly higher than during nonpandemic years. The flu certainly kills some old people, says Dr. Emanuel, but many would have died anyway. In addition, they may not benefit from flu vaccines as much as is assumed: A 2006 study found that the antibody response by people over 65 is less than half that in young adults.

Critics reply that the elderly are more likely to die if they get the flu, so ethics requires you protect them, the most vulnerable, first. Indeed, in the 1957 and 1968 pandemics, the very young and very old had the highest flu-mortality rates. But in the 1918 pandemic, 20- to 40-year-olds and children under five had the highest mortality rate. The elderly were more likely to either not become infected or to survive if they did, perhaps because only someone with a sturdy immune system lived to a ripe old age back then.

The common-sense notion that vaccinating the elderly is the best way to save the elderly also deserves scrutiny, according to a study this week in the journal PLoS Medicine. Infants and the elderly don't spread the flu as much as, say, a schoolchild or business traveler. Might you decrease both illness and death, including among the old, by vaccinating other age groups first?

As it happens, that is what doctors did in Tecumseh, Mich., in 1968. They vaccinated school-age kids, whose lower natural immunity and many contacts (not to mention a tendency to sneeze all over the place) makes them high transmitters of infectious disease. That tactic slowed the spread of disease and cut the death rate from flu to below that in a matching community.

Last year, scientists showed in a model that if you vaccinate about 60% of U.S. schoolchildren, flu deaths among the elderly would fall to 6,600 from the typical 34,000. "It's not necessarily true that the best way to protect someone is to vaccinate that person," says Ira Longini of the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center, Seattle. "In the case of the elderly, flu vaccine doesn't protect them very well, so breaking the chain of transmission provides greater protection."

In the PLoS study, mathematician Lauren Ancel Meyers of the University of Texas, Austin, and colleagues analyzed patterns of flu transmission under different assumptions about how likely a carrier is to infect other people. Using data on household size, age distribution and other factors, they compared a strategy that targets infants and the elderly with one targeting those most likely to catch flu: school-age kids.

For moderately contagious strains, says Prof. Meyers, the optimal strategy is to vaccinate the kids. "This severs the transmission chain," she says, thereby indirectly protecting the old. For very contagious strains, it is better to vaccinate those most likely to die if they catch flu, such as the elderly. "Highly contagious strains can find their way around this buffer of immunized schoolkids," she explains.

The flu season began this month, and is expected to peak between Christmas and March. As usual, scientists took an educated guess about which strain would show up this year and made vaccines against New Caledonia, Wisconsin and Malaysia. Now, all they can do is hope that they guessed right -- and that there is enough vaccine to go around -- so that the need to ration shots remains theoretical.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB116008629662084219-search.html?KEYWORDS=flu
 
Who should MDs let die in a pandemic? Report offers answers

By LINDSEY TANNER, AP Medical Writer Mon May 5, 9:47 AM ET

CHICAGO - Doctors know some patients needing lifesaving care won't get it in a flu pandemic or other disaster. The gut-wrenching dilemma will be deciding who to let die.

Now, an influential group of physicians has drafted a grimly specific list of recommendations for which patients wouldn't be treated. They include the very elderly, seriously hurt trauma victims, severely burned patients and those with severe dementia.

The suggested list was compiled by a task force whose members come from prestigious universities, medical groups, the military and government agencies. They include the Department of Homeland Security, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the Department of Health and Human Services.

The proposed guidelines are designed to be a blueprint for hospitals "so that everybody will be thinking in the same way" when pandemic flu or another widespread health care disaster hits, said Dr. Asha Devereaux. She is a critical care specialist in San Diego and lead writer of the task force report.

The idea is to try to make sure that scarce resources — including ventilators, medicine and doctors and nurses — are used in a uniform, objective way, task force members said.

Their recommendations appear in a report appearing Monday in the May edition of Chest, the medical journal of the American College of Chest Physicians.

"If a mass casualty critical care event were to occur tomorrow, many people with clinical conditions that are survivable under usual health care system conditions may have to forgo life-sustaining interventions owing to deficiencies in supply or staffing," the report states.

To prepare, hospitals should designate a triage team with the Godlike task of deciding who will and who won't get lifesaving care, the task force wrote. Those out of luck are the people at high risk of death and a slim chance of long-term survival. But the recommendations get much more specific, and include:

_People older than 85.

_Those with severe trauma, which could include critical injuries from car crashes and shootings.

_Severely burned patients older than 60.

_Those with severe mental impairment, which could include advanced Alzheimer's disease.

_Those with a severe chronic disease, such as advanced heart failure, lung disease or poorly controlled diabetes.

Dr. Kevin Yeskey, director of the preparedness and emergency operations office at the Department of Health and Human Services, was on the task force. He said the report would be among many the agency reviews as part of preparedness efforts.

Public health law expert Lawrence Gostin of Georgetown University called the report an important initiative but also "a political minefield and a legal minefield."

The recommendations would probably violate federal laws against age discrimination and disability discrimination, said Gostin, who was not on the task force.

If followed to a tee, such rules could exclude care for the poorest, most disadvantaged citizens who suffer disproportionately from chronic disease and disability, he said. While health care rationing will be necessary in a mass disaster, "there are some real ethical concerns here."

James Bentley, a senior vice president at American Hospital Association, said the report will give guidance to hospitals in shaping their own preparedness plans even if they don't follow all the suggestions.

He said the proposals resemble a battlefield approach in which limited health care resources are reserved for those most likely to survive.

Bentley said it's not the first time this type of approach has been recommended for a catastrophic pandemic, but that "this is the most detailed one I have seen from a professional group."

While the notion of rationing health care is unpleasant, the report could help the public understand that it will be necessary, Bentley said.

Devereaux said compiling the list "was emotionally difficult for everyone."

That's partly because members believe it's just a matter of time before such a health care disaster hits, she said.

"You never know," Devereaux said. "SARS took a lot of folks by surprise. We didn't even know it existed."

___

On the Net:

CHEST: http://www.chestjournal.org

U.S. Govt.: http://www.pandemicflu.gov

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080505/ap_on_he_me/pandemic_rationing_care
 
LINDSEY TANNER said:
"a political minefield and a legal minefield."

To say the least. If fact, I would question how such a thing could work without the suspension of the rule of law as we now know it. On the other hand, in a pandemic, depending upon its nature and severity, I could see the necessity but I have a hard time trusting those who might have to make "treatment decisions" to do it honestly and fairly. I would also have a problem with denying treatment simply because one falls within a category, i.e., above 85 -- there are potentially members of that group who might have a better chance at survival, with treatment, than someone thats not in a suspect class.

Without some form of national health care, does not some form of selective treatment exist today, without a pandemic ???

QueEx
 
The "rule of law as we know it" isn't all that great and could use a little suspending.

I don't have a general problem with the criteria roughly outlined in this article for two reasons. One being no one has a right to health care and the other is this is just a broad guideline to make the specific decision-making easier. No one, so far, will force hospitals to follow this exactly and hopefully will encourage hospitals to give greater thought to this situation. I'm sure they have thought about it already in states that are prone to mass disasters, but I'm sure many places haven't given any thought.
 
`


Is it time to re-visit this thread ? ? ?


QueEx


Yes

The discussion as to whom gets vaccinated has been discussed at length for several years now among people across several professions and none of the groups that will get first crack at medical treatment is in either article.Those articles should be titled who gets to be third in line. If you think about it the answer is right in front or you.

Big Hint: It has to do with maintaining society as a whole.

Edit: Keep in mind these 2 words..."Social Isolation"....If any novel virus takes off you'll hear them 24/7
 
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Re: How to Ration Flu Vaccines

vaccines are the problem. The 1918 "spanish" flu pandemic was a result of vaccines tested on WW1 soldiers. The US gov't dug up corpses from Alaska and weaponized the flu to build the current avian flu. This new swine flu has no vaccine.

Vaccines are the reason viruses continue to mutate and evolve.

If you want to die, please do get a vaccine.

http://rense.com/general85/vacc.htm

The only real defense against the flu is a strong immune system. Your skin is more effective than any vaccine.

Colloidal silver ftw
 
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Funny, those that are against government intervention in to public life and cry socialism at everything the government does are the first ones to claim “I want mine first”. I say all the supply siders should get their own vaccinations with their own money!

source: Huffington Post

GOP Stripped Flu Pandemic Preparedness From Stimulus [UPDATED]

[UPDATED, below]

[with reporting from Ryan Grim]

Remember way back in the day, President Obama delivered his Not Really The State Of The Union address, and the GOP trotted out Future Of The Republican Party Supra-Genius Bobbly Jindal to provide a rebuttal? Well, we all had some laughs, didn't we? Mainly because Jindal was all: "They want to spend stimulus money on volcano monitoring? Why everyone knows that the Hill Witch keeps tabs on our volcanoes by floating chicken bones in her own intestinal ichor!" And then Alaska's Mount Redoubt erupted, suggesting there might be something to this "let's monitor volcanoes with government-funded science" idea.

Well, as it turns out, volcano monitoring wasn't the only worthwhile public safety program that was deemed extravagant in the stimulus package, funding for pandemic preparation was axed as well. And playing a critical role was Susan Collins -- for whom the necessity of obtaining her vote is in inverse proportion to the intelligence she shows in policy making.

Via The Nation:

Famously, Maine Senator Collins, the supposedly moderate Republican who demanded cuts in health care spending in exchange for her support of a watered-down version of the stimulus, fumed about the pandemic funding: "Does it belong in this bill? Should we have $870 million in this bill No, we should not."

Even now, Collins continues to use her official website to highlight the fact that she led the fight to strip the pandemic preparedness money out of the Senate's version of the stimulus measure.

The wisdom of Collins' lawmaking is already being celebrated, in video:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/c3_Ax3KVdp8&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/c3_Ax3KVdp8&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Naturally, it's tough to keep an economy stimulated if productivity gets diminished by a pandemic. And, hey, it turns out that the lack of a stable and well-funded public health infrastructure may ">not be so good for economic recovery as a whole:

On Monday, the question began to be answered, as Associated Press reported -- under the headline: "World Markets Struck By Swine Flu Fears" -- that: "World stock markets fell Monday as investors worried that a deadly outbreak of swine flu in Mexico could go global and derail any global economic recovery."

Karl Rove, from his perch at the Wall Street Journal, criticized the inclusion of "$462 million for the Centers for Disease Control, and $900 million for pandemic flu preparations," on the grounds that "health care also added jobs" in the previous year. Such expenditures were, to Rove, "disturbing" and an example of President Obama's "lack of engagement and leadership."

All of this is playing out at a time when HHS nominee sits on the sidelines, her nomination held up at the behest of pro-life organizations who want to paint her as the "Abortion Queen." The hold up is pointless - merely delaying the inevitable for "another week." Maybe the swine flu would be good enough to wait!

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/OuBis8PX_UQ&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/OuBis8PX_UQ&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

UPDATE: HuffPost's Ryan Grim has been chasing down comments today, in an attempt to measure the effect the swine flu outbreak is having on everyone's hindsight:

"We had $870 million in the committee-reported stimulus bill for buying anti-virals, vaccines, planning, etc. It was dropped in Collins-Nelson because it was 'not stimulative,'" said a Senate leadership aide.

"We did put over $500 million in the omnibus, and HHS/DHS are fairly well-supplied, but it was an opportunity lost for being appropriately prepared."

Sen. Tom Harkin (D-Iowa) was among those who had pushed for the pandemic money after pressing the Bush administration to take bird flu seriously.

"The Senator was disappointed that the money was taken out of the economic recovery package because that money was to develop the capacity to produce pandemic vaccines quickly in the U.S. in response to any pandemic," said his spokeswoman Kate Cyrul. "This capacity is not there yet and would not be if we had appropriated the money, but the current outbreak reminds us that we need to be prepared."


Susan Collins' office offered a statement to Glenn Thrush:

As Ranking Member of the Senate Homeland Security Committee, Senator Collins has led hearings on pandemic flu preparedness, worked on "bioshield" legislation and funding, and helped strengthen our nation's preparedness for a pandemic flu.

Claims that she is opposed to increased funding for pandemic flu research are blatantly false and politically motivated. In fact, in December 2008, Senator Collins joined in a letter to Senate leaders requesting a $905 million increase for the Public Health and Social Services Emergency Fund at the Department of Health and Human Services.

There is no evidence that federal efforts to address the swine flu outbreak have been hampered by a lack of funds. Senator Collins does, however, believe that it is a problem that the Centers for Disease Control and the Department of Health and Human Services still do not have top positions filled. She hopes the Senate will move promptly to confirm Governor Sebelius for HHS Secretary.



Dave Obey (D-Wisc.), who backed the pandemic preparedness funding in the stimulus package, also released a statement today:

"We have been trying to get adequate funding to prepare the nation for a pandemic outbreak since 2005. We tried again as recently as January in the economic recovery package. Whether or not this influenza strain turns out to have pandemic potential, sooner or later some strain will."

"We are not prepared today. Let's hope we don't need to be. Because we need to become prepared as soon as possible, I intend to again request additional funds in the upcoming supplemental."


Here's what Obey said about pandemic funding in the report that accompanied the House version of the recovery package:

Pandemic influenza poses a major threat to the nation's public health, security, and economy. CBO has estimated that an influenza pandemic might cause a decline in U.S. gross domestic product of between 1 and 4.25 percent depending on the severity of the pandemic. Providing additional funding to prepare for and respond to a pandemic will ameliorate the morbidity and mortality associated with worst case scenarios of an influenza pandemic thereby reducing the potential economic burden. Another program funded in this recovery package is BARDA, which supports advanced development and procurement of medical countermeasures, such as vaccines, therapeutics, and diagnostics for chemical, biological, radiological, and nuclear agents, as well as other emerging infectious diseases. According to a recent independent economic analysis of BARDA, in order to develop countermeasures for all biodefense requirements identified in HHS's Public Health Emergency Countermeasures Enterprise Implementation Plan, significant increased investment in advanced development is required. BARDA also provides for the expansion of the domestic manufacturing infrastructure to support new vaccines and other countermeasures, where an expansion of domestic manufacturing is desired to provide sufficient quantities of products in a timely manner.
 
Re: How to Ration Flu Vaccines

vaccines are the problem. The 1918 "spanish" flu pandemic was a result of vaccines tested on WW1 soldiers. The US gov't dug up corpses from Alaska and weaponized the flu to build the current avian flu. This new swine flu has no vaccine.

Vaccines are the reason viruses continue to mutate and evolve.

If you want to die, please do get a vaccine.

http://rense.com/general85/vacc.htm

The only real defense against the flu is a strong immune system. Your skin is more effective than any vaccine.

Colloidal silver ftw

Explain the virtual elimination of Small Pox, Polio or Measles doctor? I guess you’re against fluoridation of water too.
 
Re: How to Ration Flu Vaccines

Explain the virtual elimination of Small Pox, Polio or Measles doctor? I guess you’re against fluoridation of water too.

haaha, I'm not a doctor and I'm not asking you to believe me, do your own research. The polio epidemic happened only AFTER the polio vaccine was introduced. The early polio vaccines also had SV40, the cancer virus, in them. So children had cancer plus polio. What a great health system we have. Similar stories surround the Smallpox and Measles vaccines...

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/669815/the_history_of_polio_and_vaccines.html?cat=37

Fluoridation of water was done to get rid of excess sodium fluoride. It doesn't help any children's teeth. Even if it did, how is that justification for poisoning the rest of the adult population who don't have growing teeth? Fluoride is a poison, no matter how you look at it. EPA scientists have come out saying it's neurotoxic, like mercury.
http://www.fluoridealert.org/calvert.htm
http://www.wholly-water.com/EPA.fluoride.htm

please watch this
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6229689573281687331
 
Re: How to Ration Flu Vaccines

haaha, I'm not a doctor and I'm not asking you to believe me, do your own research. The polio epidemic happened only AFTER the polio vaccine was introduced. The early polio vaccines also had SV40, the cancer virus, in them. So children had cancer plus polio. What a great health system we have. Similar stories surround the Smallpox and Measles vaccines...

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/669815/the_history_of_polio_and_vaccines.html?cat=37

Fluoridation of water was done to get rid of excess sodium fluoride. It doesn't help any children's teeth. Even if it did, how is that justification for poisoning the rest of the adult population who don't have growing teeth? Fluoride is a poison, no matter how you look at it. EPA scientists have come out saying it's neurotoxic, like mercury.
http://www.fluoridealert.org/calvert.htm
http://www.wholly-water.com/EPA.fluoride.htm

please watch this
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6229689573281687331

Influenza has existed forever and less and less people are dying from it.

You still haven't explained were Small Pox, Polio or Measles have gone. Is their a mutated strain out their? Children get those vaccinations all the time and cancer rates are falling every year?

You can't be serious. Eustace Mullins and Ken Calvert? You've been exposed! Right wing/conservatives:lol:. Is their any reason why the south is less healthy than the northeastern US?

It's quite obvious you are not a doctor.

And I do agree a strong immune system is an advantage for any sickness, so stop smoking, eat healthier and exercise!
 
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