UFC fans: why was tito ortiz such a huge draw?

[cranrab]

was it due to his ethnicity and being located in southern california?

was it because he built a lot of local california support where he wrestled in high school and junior college?

was it because the UFC TV show built up hype?

it wasn't because of his skills, was it? 15-6-1, with 3 of those 15 wins coming against ken shamrock?

honest question. i don't follow it too closely and i'm trying to play catchup.

 

[Makkonnen]

His manager was Dana White. That says alot right there. MMA isn't/wsn't jam packed with latinos because of him and I'd say most of his fans were white and not from Southern California. He was a huge draw cuz he could fight, he talked a lot of shit(entertainment) and he could back it up most of the time. The losses were against top notch opponnents most of whom are considered legends of the cage or will be (rashad). He's also beaten legends.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tito_Ortiz
His record is damn good. That record against those opponents is pretty damn good. You do know Ken Shamrock is a UFC legend right? Although his skills diminished there at the end he's a former champ who is highly respected. He fought Ken the last two times over a beef - which may or may not have been some WWF style shit but still that was what the UFC was at that time.

Tito was the UFC for years. The only reason he isn't there hanging out like Chuck is because him and Dana fell out. Dana is a childish bitch and although I like the UFC I hope he gets booted/fails. I dont hate him but he is ruining the sport.

Bottom line is Tito is a big part of why the UFC is what it is now.
Personally, I don't like him. He's had surgery and is about to sign with strikeforce but UFC can match any contract he signs- I dont think Dana will do that but he could to fuck with Tito or mend fences who knows.

 

[heiesuke]

^^ Interesting

 

[showtime]

I mean he was a good fighter, great back in his hay day. Plus he has alot of personality in and out of the octagon. People just liked to watch him. Not to mention most of his fights ended with him pounding the other guys face in til the ref pulled him off. Plus the gold hair, fiery attitude, he's always have some wild theatrics after he won.

 

[cranrab]

His record is damn good. That record against those opponents is pretty damn good. You do know Ken Shamrock is a UFC legend right? Although his skills diminished there at the end he's a former champ who is highly respected.

i don't know, M. i tend to think that those W's v. ken shamrock don't say very much. since 2002 (their first matchup), ken shamrock's UFC record is 1-4 (and 2-5 overall).

Tito was the UFC for years.

i see that, but i'm left wondering why.

yes, tito ortiz beat wanderlei silver for a vacant title. good win, but not like he had to dethrone a champion to get it.

also, 15 wins in 11 years? is that a remarkable body of work?

i'm not saying he sucks, i'm just questioning why he's so celebrated.

i just watched tito ortiz v. vitor belfort this afternoon on DVD, so it got me wondering.

thanks for the input.

 

[richlove]

First of all you have to produce fairly well to even continue to fight in order to be a draw. But Tim Duncan can win as much as Jordan and won't be as popular..because of the shoes, the bald head, the dunks, dunk contest, tongue hanging out. Tito has the shit talking, getting in people's face, "insert name here" is my bitch t-shirts to the weigh ins and press conferences..coming out to Eminem. It's always a combo of things that make people popular.

 

[Kazoo]

First of all you have to produce fairly well to even continue to fight in order to be a draw. But Tim Duncan can win as much as Jordan and won't be as popular..because of the shoes, the bald head, the dunks, dunk contest, tongue hanging out. Tito has the shit talking, getting in people's face, "insert name here" is my bitch t-shirts to the weigh ins and press conferences..coming out to Eminem. It's always a combo of things that make people popular.

exactly - its called Marketing Tito did that very well

 

[cranrab]

exactly - its called Marketing Tito did that very well

K,

so just to be clear, IYO tito ortiz is more a product of marketing than as a result of his accomplishments in the ring?

 

[cranrab]

It's always a combo of things that make people popular.

definitely. i suggested a few (which may or may not be completely off base) to open this thread.

but i wonder why tito ortiz enjoyed a more prominent representation than say, chuck lidell.

chuck lidell not only beat tito ortiz heads up twice, he also defeated randy couture twice. not only that, chuck lidell has more MMA wins in a shorter span, and chuck lidell's most recent victories aren't against 1 of the oldest dudes in UFC.

so it obviously isn't ONLY about what goes on inside the ring/octagon, it must in large part some other factors.

you lean towards a pre-fight showmanship (weigh in, ring entrance, stare down) explanation? something akin to "prince" naseem hamed? isn't it just teen girls who mostly go for that stuff?

just saying that i think dudes like to watch cats like fedor emelianenko come in, handle their business, and leave. do we really give a shit about taunting slogans on t-shirts or dyed hairdos?

 

[Makkonnen]

K,

so just to be clear, IYO tito ortiz is more a product of marketing than as a result of his accomplishments in the ring?

Tito is a successful fighter. Its not marketing, he has talent. The marketing allowed the UFC to profit more on his name than they had/have on others. Tito isnt the michael jordan of mma but its like asking if Mike was good or if it was just marketing.

Let me take it back that I dont like him. Tito has a lot of heart. He's a real dude. If you want some insight on some fighters' personality etc check out the Ultimate Fighter tv shows. You can tell who the frauds are. Tito actually trained his team and guys got better. Alot of big names get on there and its all about them - BJ Penn, Matt Hughes, Ken Shamrock - they couldnt give a fuck about anyone but themselves and can't coach or run a training camp for shit- unless its for themself.

Tito was the first to speak up on why Rampage broke with his former trainer who had been ripping him off for years too.

 

[Makkonnen]

definitely. i suggested a few (which may or may not be completely off base) to open this thread.

but i wonder why tito ortiz enjoyed a more prominent representation than say, chuck lidell.

More prominent? Nah. Chuck has made way more cash and gotten way more side deals than Tito ever got. Chuck was the UFC poster boy even after gettin put to sleep a few times.
Tito did his thing when the UFC didnt have big stars so maybe he seemed like he was getting promoted more or something.

chuck lidell not only beat tito ortiz heads up twice, he also defeated randy couture twice. not only that, chuck lidell has more MMA wins in a shorter span, and chuck lidell's most recent victories aren't against 1 of the oldest dudes in UFC.

And he also got beatdown by Rampage twice and got put to sleep by Rashad Evans who could only get a draw against Tito. What's your point? Chuck is paid like a muthafucka. He was the UFC's top draw for awhile. How many times did you see Tito on Entourage?

so it obviously isn't ONLY about what goes on inside the ring/octagon, it must in large part some other factors.

Honestly, if Chuck was black he wouldnt have been the top UFC name. He was the great white hope made reality for awhile. Them fans were sick when he started getting aired out.

It isnt only about what goes on in the ring. Anderson Silva is better than Tito and Chuck but he doesnt speak English so it hurts his marketability. He's still a premiere draw but he's not selling you protein bars or sandwhiches. But if he could speak english fluently? It would be over. He's a HOF fighter. Lyoto Machida is taking english lessons right now to make himself more marketable. And Lyoto could also end Tito or Chuck's life - literally. You have to have it in the ring then be able to be sold by the UFC.
Alot of unserious/new fans of fighting who just watch UFC when its on in the bar etc know Chuck Liddell but dont know shit about Tito.

you lean towards a pre-fight showmanship (weigh in, ring entrance, stare down) explanation? something akin to "prince" naseem hamed? isn't it just teen girls who mostly go for that stuff?

I think youre getting a little condescending since most sports do the shit to some degree - hype drama etc. Are WWE and boxing events filled with teen girls?

just saying that i think dudes like to watch cats like fedor emelianenko come in, handle their business, and leave. do we really give a shit about taunting slogans on t-shirts or dyed hairdos?

Cmon man you live in LA. Freaks will always draw. You're not knew to fight hype. That shit is old as hell. People like fights. People like a little personal drama added to it too. If the guy with the hair or tshirt cant play or fight or whatever no one gives a shit. If he can, it just makes some people love them or hate them more.

I think you've somehow come away with the idea Tito wasnt a great fighter and that's wrong. If Tito wasnt good there is no draw.
Where's Kimbo now? He had all the hype in the world - more than anyone. Made more for fights than Chuck or Tito. Lost once and no one gives a shit anymore. He had hype like a muthafucka but most in the MMA game hated him out of jealousy or just plain lack of paying dues to earn the way he was. You won't find that anywhere about Tito.

 

[Makkonnen]

Yahoo Sports' front page right now with a pic of Chuck
"Center of attention
Chuck Liddell might not be in UFC 97's main event but he's still the star of the show. "

 

[cranrab]

More prominent? Nah. Chuck has made way more cash and gotten way more side deals than Tito ever got. Chuck was the UFC poster boy even after gettin put to sleep a few times. Tito did his thing when the UFC didnt have big stars so maybe he seemed like he was getting promoted more or something.

i'll take your word on the earnings. i am oblivious to UFC purses and promotional deals. as a casual fan attempting to play catch up on some of the history of this sport i can tell you that from my perspective i remember hearing more about tito ortiz than chuck liddell.

part of the reason for me starting this thread is trying to figure out why that is. and for the record, i don't think chuck liddell has been very relevant since 2006 (coincidentally, his last fight with tito ortiz).

And he also got beatdown by Rampage twice and got put to sleep by Rashad Evans who could only get a draw against Tito. What's your point? Chuck is paid like a muthafucka. He was the UFC's top draw for awhile.

and i would add that he would've correctly been the UFC's top draw (through 2006). from 2002-2006 chuck liddell gave the crowd what they wanted: exciting T/KO finishes (instead of not as exciting unanimous decisions).

whereas with tito ortiz, i'm not seeing it as much.

It isnt only about what goes on in the ring. Anderson Silva is better than Tito and Chuck but he doesnt speak English so it hurts his marketability. He's still a premiere draw but he's not selling you protein bars or sandwhiches. But if he could speak english fluently? It would be over. He's a HOF fighter.

and now we draw closer to the crux of the issue. a same position could be argued for fedor emelianenko, yes? here are 2 fighters (anderson silva, fedor emelianenko) that two very different levels of fans (you and i) can appreciate for their skills. in these instances, do we need someone to tell us who to admire, or did we gravitate toward them because of other extraneous reasons?

I think youre getting a little condescending since most sports do the shit to some degree - hype drama etc. Are WWE and boxing events filled with teen girls?

WWE, yes.

boxing, not so much.

teen girls are into the whole WWE experience: make up, colorful costumes, soap opera story lines, etc.

You're not knew to fight hype. That shit is old as hell. People like fights. People like a little personal drama added to it too. If the guy with the hair or tshirt cant play or fight or whatever no one gives a shit. If he can, it just makes some people love them or hate them more.

to me, the only real across-the-board seller is race. people say that "styles make fights", but that's only true for fans of the sport who understand what's actually going on. for the rest of the fans that tune in (or attend), they are just looking for the train-wreck of somebody getting KTFO.

but attach the race component, and look out:

leonard-duran
holmes-cooney
de la hoya-mayweather
even 1980's celtics-fakers

I think you've somehow come away with the idea Tito wasnt a great fighter and that's wrong. If Tito wasnt good there is no draw.

i haven't watched enough of his fights yet to definitively make that call. but i will admit that i'm leaning towards that conclusion (that tito ortiz is not a great fighter). i could be wrong. i'm sitting down to watch UFC 59 in a few minutes to watch his fight v. forrest griffin. but to be fair, i put tito ortiz somewhere ahead of tim sylvia (who, like chuck liddell, hasn't really been relevant since 2006). tito ortiz has fought better opponents and wasn't caught juicing.

Where's Kimbo now? He had all the hype in the world - more than anyone. Made more for fights than Chuck or Tito. Lost once and no one gives a shit anymore. He had hype like a muthafucka but most in the MMA game hated him out of jealousy or just plain lack of paying dues to earn the way he was.

in pointing out kimbo slice, doesn't that tend to lend credence to KAZOO's point about a marketing factor?

my thing is, there's NOTHING wrong with marketing a fighter to promote a sport or entity. i'm just curious IF tito ortiz was chosen, THEN why?

 

[Makkonnen]

Youre wylin if you think Tito sucked. I used to think Pride - a now extinct fighting league in Japan - was lightyears better than UFC because of the action and skill -its where Fedor became well known. But I saw a guy I thought was soso Rico Rodriguez go there and beat the second best fighter there - Nog in his prime. I also saw pride guys go to UFC and get wasted like they werent shit. Great fighters Im talkin about here. Tito was a great fighter. Not great on Silva or Fedor's level but definitely on Chuck's.
Kimbo was able to be marketed because he knocked people out/beat their ass. He got hype KO'ing people in the street. Then he beat a few bums in MMA. Without the victories there's no marketing.

Tito was the light heavyweight champ. He was the best fighter in the UFC at the time. His manager had his friends buy the UFC - Dana White. Also Chuck LIddells former mgr if Im not mistaken - but he is close friends with Dana still.

Its like any sport. Sponsors and promoters pick marketable champs to put out front. You make it sound like you think Tito was picked off a sidewalk and made champ and they put his name in big letters on the posters for UFC events.
I dont get it.

Comparing Tito to Sylvia is a pretty big insult

 

[cranrab]

i'm not saying he sucks, i'm just questioning why he's so celebrated.

Youre wylin if you think Tito sucked.

i put tito ortiz somewhere ahead of tim sylvia (who, like chuck liddell, hasn't really been relevant since 2006). tito ortiz has fought better opponents and wasn't caught juicing.

Comparing Tito to Sylvia is a pretty big insult

those 2 parts were already addressed in previous posts, so i just cut and pasted my quotes.

i understand that tito ortiz was UFC lightheavy champ. he won a vacant title and defended it 5 times over the next 3 years. 1 of the defenses was against elvis sinosic, who was 4-3-1 before facing tito ortiz. another of the defenses was against 38 year old ken shamrock. nothing to sneeze at, but not exactly stellar competition.

in his last 10 fights, tito ortiz is 5-4-1. again, not so spectacular. and after watching the forrest griffin fight just now, i'd say his record ought to be 4-4-2. tito ortiz bloodied up forrest griffin very well in the 1st round, but was ineffectual in rounds 2 and 3. i couldn't believe 1 judge scored the fight 30-27 ortiz.

i'm looking forward to watching the rest of tito ortiz' fights in the next few days so maybe i can see what you're seeing. from what i've seen so far, had i been watching UFC back in 2003-04, i'd have had little to no interest in buying tickets to see tito ortiz.

BTW, the post-fight interview with tito ortiz was very interesting. tito ortiz apologized to dana white for holding out for 1 year, and also thanked dana white for financing his clothing company (punishment). i don't know the backstory, but now they have no kind words for each other?

tito ortiz also bad-mouthed randy couture in the post-fight interview, which is a surprise to me, because i've never heard any fighters have bad things to say about randy couture.

 

[showtime]

Tito had the punk type image. His main thing was wrestling and ground and pound. As the name of his clothing line he really did like to "punish" his opponent. While he didn't have many flashy KO's he did punish the hell outta whomever he was fighting most of the time.

The thing with Tito, I don't think he did a good enough job evolving as a fighter. GnP was an awesome style in the late 90's Early 00's, but as guys started to get more well rounded and focused more on the ground game wrestling/takedown defense etc, it wasn't as effective. Unless you were an all-american type wrestler or just freakishly athletic, it's hard to take a guy down who has as decent skills as you and same size, at will and pound them into the ground. Then when you can't take a guy down, your standup skills are average at best theres almost no way for you to win.

Good example is the Machida fight, he spent all fight trying to take Machida down and just couldn't. He couldn't do a thing to him on the feet as well.

 

[Makkonnen]

cosign showtime
That's true of many of the previous gen fighters. Chuck and Rampage for instance. Terrific standup and takedown defense but one dimensional as fuck. Hardly any kicks, just mostly going for a knockout. You see it in boxing too. Guys get to the top or almost there with their skill then when those skills arent as effective with new opponents they can either get a new trainer and work on weak points or they can lie to themselves and say they can handle it they dont need to evolve.
Like BJ - he needs a new camp. He's done all he can do there it doesnt push him. Tito too, that wrestling shit wont work on top notch fighters nowadays and he doesnt have the KO power. Plus he's getting old. I'm not sure how much his back problems played in it. Supposedly its been fucked up for years. He's still recovering from surgery on it but he says he's pain free now. He has 6 more months of recovery time then he's supposed to be good to fight.

---------

cranrab - dont get me wrong I never have had an interest in buying tickets to see Tito Ortiz or even Rampage who I've always liked alot. The only time I got excited about buying tickets - plane and arena is for the Machida vs Rashad fight coming up.
I also think youre getting me a little wrong on TIto. He hasn't been shit for 4-5years now. Thats not to say he is a bum he just isnt dominate like he was because there are younger faster stronger fighters with way better credentials and techinque out there. I couldnt see him lasting 3 rounds with Forest now. I think most people know, in and around MMA,Tito has paid his dues- like Ken Shamrock etc and feel its ok for him to make some money before he retires which will likely be soon barring a miracle.

The 2 fights a year thing is pretty common in the UFC too.

 

[Helico-pterFunk]

Tito's a combination of everything.

- In his prime, he was a very skilled fighter. Excellent work ethic in his training camps at Big Bear.

- Very, very good self-marketer. He really made a name for himself as "The Huntington Beach Bad Boy" ...

- Has a businessman mindset at heart. If you watched him on The Celebrity Apprentice in 2008, you probably noticed how cool/calm/collected he was. Plus he presents really well outside of the ring when he wants to. Decked out in the designer suits and shit. So he's a combination of "Huntington Beach Bad Boy" + "I can clean up for the business world as well when I want/need to"

- Very good at mind games with opponents. He got under the majority of his opponents' collective skin, and especially that of Ken Shamrock (over their trilogy, as we all know). Excellent shit-talker, and always fun to watch when he'd fake-shoot (Wild West-style) his opponents or dig them a grave and bury them after he'd won the fight. Plus his signature t-shirts were hilarious ... especially that one for Guy Mezger. "GAY MEZGER IS MY BITCH!"

- And like fam' said ... even though his record isn't exactly 'stellar' ... he fought a good variety of opponents in his career, and is respected for the fact that he HELPED in getting the sport to where it is today and its momentum the past 10 - 12 years, and he was also able to defend his light heavyweight championship 5 TIMES during the peak of his skillset/career.

http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Tito-Ortiz-158
http://www.sherdog.com/



Draw Rashad Evans Draw UFC 73 - Stacked 7/7/2007 3 5:00
Loss Chuck Liddell TKO (Punches) UFC 66 - Liddell vs Ortiz II 12/30/2006 3 3:59
Win Ken Shamrock TKO (Punches) UFC - The Final Chapter 10/10/2006 1 2:23
Win Ken Shamrock TKO (Elbows) UFC 61 - Bitter Rivals 7/8/2006 1 1:18
Win Forrest Griffin Decision (Split) UFC 59 - Reality Check 4/15/2006 3 5:00
Win Vitor Belfort Decision (Split) UFC 51 - Super Saturday 2/5/2005 3 5:00
Win Patrick Cote Decision (Unanimous) UFC 50 - The War of '04 10/22/2004 3 5:00
Loss Chuck Liddell KO (Punches) UFC 47 - It's On 4/2/2004 2 0:38
Loss Randy Couture Decision (Unanimous) UFC 44 - Undisputed 9/26/2003 5 5:00
Win Ken Shamrock TKO (Corner Stoppage) UFC 40 - Vendetta 11/22/2002 3 5:00
Win Vladimir Matyushenko Decision (Unanimous) UFC 33 - Victory in Vegas 9/28/2001 5 5:00
Win Elvis Sinosic TKO (Punches and Elbows) UFC 32 - Showdown in the Meadowlands 6/29/2001 1 3:32
Win Evan Tanner KO (Slam) UFC 30 - Battle on the Boardwalk 2/23/2001 1 0:32
Win Yuki Kondo Submission (Neck Crank) UFC 29 - Defense of the Belts 12/16/2000 1 1:52
Win Wanderlei Silva Decision (Unanimous) UFC 25 - Ultimate Japan 3 4/14/2000 5 5:00
Loss Frank Shamrock Submission (Strikes) UFC 22 - There Can Be Only One Champion 9/24/1999 4 4:42
Win Guy Mezger TKO (Strikes) UFC 19 - Ultimate Young Guns 3/5/1999 1 9:56
Win Jerry Bohlander TKO (Strikes) UFC 18 - Road to the Heavyweight Title 1/8/1999 1 14:31
Win Jeremy Screeton Submission (Strikes) WCNHBC - West Coast NHB Championships 1 12/8/1998 1 0:16
Loss Guy Mezger Submission (Guillotine Choke) UFC 13 - The Ultimate Force 5/30/1997 1 3:00
Win Wes Albritton TKO (Strikes) UFC 13 - The Ultimate Force 5/30/1997 1 0:31

 

[KILLER]

Man,Tito Rules!

He is One of the best MMA fighters of all times.

I miss watching his fights on the UFC Octagon.

IMHO RANDY COUTURE IS THE BEST MMA Fighter of all times.

 

[cranrab]

when you can't take a guy down, your standup skills are average at best theres almost no way for you to win.

Good example is the Machida fight, he spent all fight trying to take Machida down and just couldn't. He couldn't do a thing to him on the feet as well.

i've yet to watch the fight you mentioned (UFC 84), but it is in my queue, and i will watch it soon.

but what you described is EXACTLY what happened in rounds 2 and 3 of the match i watched last night (ortiz v. griffin). in the 1st round, forrest griffin didn't remember to pull 1 of his legs back while sprawling and tito ortiz took him down. and made him pay the price. but in rounds 2 and 3, forrest griffin had excellent take down defense, and even got back on his feet after 1 successful take down in round 3.

 

[cranrab]

Tito has the shit talking, getting in people's face, "insert name here" is my bitch t-shirts to the weigh ins and press conferences..coming out to Eminem. It's always a combo of things that make people popular.

exactly - its called Marketing Tito did that very well

gentlemen,

i think you both correctly hit the nail on the head.

your suggestions lead me to a 51 minute documentary titled "shamrock v. ortiz", made by tito ortiz' ex-manager sal garcia. the documentary clearly explains the branding strategy (cheeseball trading cards, t-shirts) and the contractual leveraging that garcia personally negotiated to make sure that tito ortiz was featured prominently in UFC advertising.

of course, tito ortiz contributed to his own success by dominating jerry bohlander in UFC 18, which provided sal garcia with the opportunity to make such wild demands (equal money with headliner vitor belfort, 2 additional guaranteed UFC matches, and inclusion in advertising).

thanks to all for contributing to my knowledge of the history of the sport. i'm sure i'll have more questions in the future, and i'm sure BGOL with come through again.

 

[Makkonnen]

Also Cran checkout Dream, Strikeforce and WEC events - UFC isnt the only MMA venue out there. Check out InsideMMA on HDNET too - good commentary and plenty of managers and fighters talk. Hosted by a HOF'er Baas Ruten

Also check it- you brought up UFC18 - tonight is UFC97 so a whole lot of time and change has gone by.
Now the UFC is on the verge of outlawing managers, theyre making all fighters sign with sponsors through them and hittin the sponsorships for 25% all kinds of shit thats pretty much illegal. Dana is a pimp.


***oh yeah - I reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalllllllllllllllyyyyyyyyyyyyyy want to put $500 on Silva losing - its 5to1 as of last night

 

[cranrab]

Check out InsideMMA on HDNET too - good commentary and plenty of managers and fighters talk. Hosted by a HOF'er Baas Ruten

i do catch that show from time to time.

that show lets me know that the sport is still in its infancy. when they do the national roundup and you got dudes fighting in half-ass venues and the lighting is so poor you can barely see the fighters, i'm thinking those kinds of events hurt the sport more than help it.

but i miss bas rutten commentary in pride events. i wish they'd can joe rogan and that lame dunce they have with him. UFC commentary is best when they have guest commentators on like randy couture.

i'm probably going to skip UFC 98 and watch the rockets v. blazers game instead. i was going to fly out for UFC 99 next month, but there aren't enough good matches on the card.

 

[NorthsideOKC]

K,

so just to be clear, IYO tito ortiz is more a product of marketing than as a result of his accomplishments in the ring?

This is such an odd question, because look at the biggest draws ever. Marketing is very important. You gotta be interesting to be a big draw. It's more than just what you bring to the ring. Just being the best doesn't make you a big draw

 

[NorthsideOKC]

n/m

 

[cranrab]

This is such an odd question, because look at the biggest draws ever. Marketing is very important. You gotta be interesting to be a big draw. It's more than just what you bring to the ring. Just being the best doesn't make you a big draw

i understand that marketing is very important. but in my experience, if marketing exceeds the level of talent, it's just a short matter of time before the house of cards implodes.

muhammad ali - big talent with big hype.

milli vinilli - no talent but big hype.

larry holmes v. gerry cooney - it didn't take more than a couple rounds for viewers to realize they'd been duped into thinking it was a fair fight. promoters capitalized on the rocky balboa v. apollo creed formula and sold them a bum fight.

when roy jones jr. was doing his thing, did people really care that he made his own rap to enter the ring? or were they just there to see his rooster moves and watch his opponent get KTFO?

i'm starting to think that i'm in an extreme minority of the population that is disinterested (immune?) to most marketing ploys, because i'm entirely intent on seeing the actual event, and not the "reality show" leading up to it.

i'm not real interested in a fighter's ink or colorful mohawk; i just wanna see the fight.

i'm not real interested in the length of a player's shorts or the kicks he rocking this season; i just wanna watch the game.

 

[richlove]

just saying that i think dudes like to watch cats like fedor emelianenko come in, handle their business, and leave. do we really give a shit about taunting slogans on t-shirts or dyed hairdos?

I evenly like the fedor machine approach as well as the Ali approach..as long as they have a sense of humor about it and can back it up..plus they have to show some class after it's over with and make it known that there is some respect.

 

[richlove]

For all those that hate Tito for anything other than the way he fights..see if you can find his interview on Howard Stern before his last fight with Chuck..you may have a change of heart. He seems like a real dude.

 

[Makkonnen]

For all those that hate Tito for anything other than the way he fights..see if you can find his interview on Howard Stern before his last fight with Chuck..you may have a change of heart. He seems like a real dude.

He is a real dude. The thing about him is he was boys with Chuck. He never had the mental game shit going against him. Tito is a soft hearted dude underneath the bullshit. As bad as Tito has looked in some fights he never got rockabyed like Chuck has.

Chuck's career is over unless he gets Dana to murk his contract so he can fight on Strikeforce or in Dream.

 

[Makkonnen]

i do catch that show from time to time.

that show lets me know that the sport is still in its infancy. when they do the national roundup and you got dudes fighting in half-ass venues and the lighting is so poor you can barely see the fighters, i'm thinking those kinds of events hurt the sport more than help it.

They cover that shit just to have stuff to talk about. Half the experts on there never heard of people fighting in those venues but you see upncomers every once in a while. Im a big MMA fan but not big enough to watch all the bullshit shows. I watch some of em but its rare.

but i miss bas rutten commentary in pride events. i wish they'd can joe rogan and that lame dunce they have with him. UFC commentary is best when they have guest commentators on like randy couture.

i'm probably going to skip UFC 98 and watch the rockets v. blazers game instead. i was going to fly out for UFC 99 next month, but there aren't enough good matches on the card.

Mannnnnnnnnnnnn Baas is the truth - fuckin joe rogan I hate now. He's such a bitch. I use to dig him but now he calls fights like his head is up Dana's ass and he can't see whats happening. Its fuckin retarded - the other guy sucks too. I think they get high and just read a script.

You missed Chuck gettin KO'd again and Silva making a top fighter look like a bum.

 

[NorthsideOKC]

i understand that marketing is very important. but in my experience, if marketing exceeds the level of talent, it's just a short matter of time before the house of cards implodes.

muhammad ali - big talent with big hype.

milli vinilli - no talent but big hype.

larry holmes v. gerry cooney - it didn't take more than a couple rounds for viewers to realize they'd been duped into thinking it was a fair fight. promoters capitalized on the rocky balboa v. apollo creed formula and sold them a bum fight.

when roy jones jr. was doing his thing, did people really care that he made his own rap to enter the ring? or were they just there to see his rooster moves and watch his opponent get KTFO?

i'm starting to think that i'm in an extreme minority of the population that is disinterested (immune?) to most marketing ploys, because i'm entirely intent on seeing the actual event, and not the "reality show" leading up to it.

i'm not real interested in a fighter's ink or colorful mohawk; i just wanna see the fight.

i'm not real interested in the length of a player's shorts or the kicks he rocking this season; i just wanna watch the game.

Understood, but your thinking from a fan's perspective instead of a promoters. You gotta get the casual fan to want to see your product. The "Barry Sanders" approach isn't what I would want if I were a promoter.

 

[cranrab]

i just watched ortiz v. liddell 1 & 2 last night.

still didn't answer any questions.

fight #1) unfortunately, the outcome was decided by a thumb in the eye.

fight #2) chuck liddell ended the match with a series of blows to the head (mostly blocked?), but i thought it was a premature stop.

in both fights, chuck liddell's takedown D rendered tito ortiz ineffectual.

maybe i should change the question to: what is the memorable fight (win, lose or draw) that cemented tito ortiz' status in MMA?

 

[Helico-pterFunk]

FEDOR - full career!

00 - Martin Lazarov, Rings Russia - Russia vs Bulgaria, 21.05.2000
http://depositfiles.com/files/vk1w5vr8g
01 - Levon Lagvilava, Rings - Russia vs Georgia, 16.08.2000
http://depositfiles.com/files/07e6zlmyb
02 - Hiroya Takada, Rings - Battle Genesis, 05.09.2000
http://depositfiles.com/files/1kvlg4c9h
03 - Ricardo Arona, Rings - King of Kings, 22.12.2000
http://depositfiles.com/files/380qxrbgf
04 - Tsuyoshi Kohsaka N1, Rings - King of Kings, 22.12.2000
http://depositfiles.com/files/h3hce27il
05 - Mihail Apostolov, Rings Russia - Russia vs Bulgaria, 06.04.2001
http://depositfiles.com/files/fpjliwf5b
06 - Kerry Schall, Rings - World Title Series 1, 20.04.2001
http://depositfiles.com/files/wrtgbtcxj
07 - Renato (Babalu) Sobral, Rings - 10th Anniversary, 11.08.2001
http://depositfiles.com/files/hmgdg5ss2
08 - Ryushi Yanagisawa, Rings - World Title Series 4, 20.10.2001
http://depositfiles.com/files/kkrismsk1
09 - Lee Hasdell, Rings - Word Title Series 5, 21.12.2001
http://depositfiles.com/files/gfo4wk791
10 - Chris Haseman, Rings - World Title Series Grand Final, 15.02.2002
http://depositfiles.com/files/2ac55i3du
11 - Semmy Schilt, PRIDE 21 Demolition, 23.06.2002
http://depositfiles.com/files/3qsmf37ik
12 - Heath Herring, PRIDE 23 Championship Chaos 2, 24.11.2002
http://depositfiles.com/files/hhf8fb17j
13 - Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira N1, PRIDE 25 Body Blow, 16.03.2003
http://depositfiles.com/files/f1m5oy0ap
14 - Egidijus Valavicius, Rings - Lithuania - Bushido Rings, 7 05.04.2003
http://depositfiles.com/files/539ii7raz
15 - Kazuyuki Fujita, PRIDE 26 Bad to the Bone, 08.06.2003
http://depositfiles.com/files/764obau1n
16 - Gary Goodridge, PRIDE Total Elimination 2003, 10.08.2003
http://depositfiles.com/files/x4cdxpkbd
17 - Yuji Nagata, Inoki Bom-Ba-Ye-2003-Inoki Festival, 31.12.2003
http://depositfiles.com/files/6h2dvo4fv
18 - Mark Coleman N1, PRIDE Total Elimination 2004, 25.04.2004
http://depositfiles.com/files/q380t43qy
19 - Kevin Randleman, PRIDE Critical Countdown 2004, 20.06.2004
http://depositfiles.com/files/uc18hatcg
20 - Naoya Ogawa, PRIDE Final Conflict 2004, 15.08.2004
http://depositfiles.com/files/vpn3vpytq
21 - Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira N2, PRIDE Final Conflict 2004, 15.08.2004
http://depositfiles.com/files/qo3l4k90n
22 - Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira N3, PRIDE Shockwave 2004, 31.12.2004
http://depositfiles.com/files/4hkj0oo2f
23 - Tsuyoshi Kohsaka N2, PRIDE Bushido 6, 03.04.2005
http://depositfiles.com/files/4hkj0oo2f
24 - Mirko (Cro Cop) Filipovic, PRIDE Final Conflict 2005, 28.08.2005
http://depositfiles.com/files/kk6adud7n
25 - Wagner (Zuluzinho) da Conceicao Martins, PRIDE Shockwave 2005, 31.12.2005
http://depositfiles.com/files/5f4y9arcn
26 - Mark Coleman N2, PRIDE 32 The Real Deal, 21.10.2006
http://depositfiles.com/files/60f1vdu73
27 - Mark Hunt, PRIDE Shockwave 2006, 31.12.2006
http://depositfiles.com/files/28a92up8a
28 - Matt Lindland, BodogFight, 14.04.2007
http://depositfiles.com/files/121t1765z
29 - Hong Man Choi, YARENNOKA!, 31.12.2007
http://depositfiles.com/files/fzhl29tzg
30 - Tim Sylvia, Affliction - Banned, 19.07.2008
http://depositfiles.com/files/5ik4qzxzt
31 - Andrei Arlovski, Affliction - Day of Reckoning, 24.01.2009
http://depositfiles.com/files/w5hz97k78

 

[t0k3]

Frank Shamrock made Tito.
If Frank never left the UFC(due to lack of competition),Tito would have been playing second fiddle to Frank and would have never been as popular as he is.

 

[kes1111]

<iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/17184998" width="500" height="331" frameborder="0" webkitAllowFullScreen mozallowfullscreen allowFullScreen></iframe> <p><a href="http://vimeo.com/17184998">'The Huntington Beach Bad Boy' Tito Ortiz</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/user3986390">Fight Music</a> on <a href="http://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>