U.S. Military Is Vulnerable To China's War Fighting Systems

blackbull1970

The Black Bastard
Platinum Member
http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071122/NATION/111220068/1001

China's 'arsenal' spurs warnings
By Bill Gertz
November 22, 2007


The U.S. military is vulnerable to China's advanced war-fighting systems, including space weapons and computer attacks that would be used in a future conflict over Taiwan, according to a congressional commission's report released yesterday.

The full report of the U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission also provides more details than the summary released last week, showing that China is engaged in a "large-scale industrial espionage campaign" with "scores" of cases involving spies seeking U.S. technology.

The full report presents a harsh assessment of China's military buildup and plans for a war against the U.S. if Beijing decided to use force against the island nation of Taiwan.

The report provides evidence countering statements by Chinese officials, and some U.S. officials, who say China's buildup is peaceful.

"The Commission concluded that China is developing its military in ways that enhance its capacity to confront the United States," the report stated. "For example, China has developed the capability to wage cyber-warfare and to destroy surveillance satellites overhead as part of its tactical, asymmetrical warfare arsenal."

On Taiwan, the report said tensions between the island nation and China produced an "emotionally-charged stand-off that risks armed conflict if not carefully managed by both sides."

"Such a conflict could involve the United States," the report said.

The U.S. military is "significantly exposed to such attacks," because of its reliance on systems of command, control, communications, computers, intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance, the report said.

Peace.:cool:
 

blackbull1970

The Black Bastard
Platinum Member
The above is probably how they manged the below.........

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/li...ews.html?in_article_id=492804&in_page_id=1811

Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced
By MATTHEW HICKLEY - More by this author »

Last updated at 00:13am on 10th November 2007

When the U.S. Navy deploys a battle fleet on exercises, it takes the security of its aircraft carriers very seriously indeed.

At least a dozen warships provide a physical guard while the technical wizardry of the world's only military superpower offers an invisible shield to detect and deter any intruders.

That is the theory. Or, rather, was the theory.

American military chiefs have been left dumbstruck by an undetected Chinese submarine popping up at the heart of a recent Pacific exercise and close to the vast U.S.S. Kitty Hawk - a 1,000ft supercarrier with 4,500 personnel on board.

By the time it surfaced the 160ft Song Class diesel-electric attack submarine is understood to have sailed within viable range for launching torpedoes or missiles at the carrier.

According to senior Nato officials the incident caused consternation in the U.S. Navy.

The Americans had no idea China's fast-growing submarine fleet had reached such a level of sophistication, or that it posed such a threat.

One Nato figure said the effect was "as big a shock as the Russians launching Sputnik" - a reference to the Soviet Union's first orbiting satellite in 1957 which marked the start of the space age.

The incident, which took place in the ocean between southern Japan and Taiwan, is a major embarrassment for the Pentagon.

The lone Chinese vessel slipped past at least a dozen other American warships which were supposed to protect the carrier from hostile aircraft or submarines.

And the rest of the costly defensive screen, which usually includes at least two U.S. submarines, was also apparently unable to detect it.

According to the Nato source, the encounter has forced a serious re-think of American and Nato naval strategy as commanders reconsider the level of threat from potentially hostile Chinese submarines.

It also led to tense diplomatic exchanges, with shaken American diplomats demanding to know why the submarine was "shadowing" the U.S. fleet while Beijing pleaded ignorance and dismissed the affair as coincidence.

Analysts believe Beijing was sending a message to America and the West demonstrating its rapidly-growing military capability to threaten foreign powers which try to interfere in its "backyard".

The People's Liberation Army Navy's submarine fleet includes at least two nuclear-missile launching vessels.

Its 13 Song Class submarines are extremely quiet and difficult to detect when running on electric motors.

Commodore Stephen Saunders, editor of Jane's Fighting Ships, and a former Royal Navy anti-submarine specialist, said the U.S. had paid relatively little attention to this form of warfare since the end of the Cold War.

He said: "It was certainly a wake-up call for the Americans.

"It would tie in with what we see the Chinese trying to do, which appears to be to deter the Americans from interfering or operating in their backyard, particularly in relation to Taiwan."

In January China carried a successful missile test, shooting down a satellite in orbit for the first time.

Peace.:cool:
 

thismybgolname

Rising Star
OG Investor
That's a hell of a wake up call but I guarantee some company in the United States has a way to detect electric power subs and they can outfit the entire U.S. Navy for a few billion.

That should make us safe:rolleyes:
 

bhunt

Star
Registered
US trying to get more money for shit, I've been out there if the US spent more money on training with equipment alrady in inventory and stop promotioning garbage leaders we would be alright. People keep thinking the answer is throwing more money at it, instead of using whats already there.
 

GreedySmurf

Star
Registered
This is amazing! Moreso that I hadn't heard a word about this on the regular news. Props to blackbull1970 for bringing this out.

While America is talking shit about fighting terrorism China is getting themselves ready for the inevitable conflict between East and West.

The world just got a little more dangerous...:smh:
 

Makkonnen

The Quizatz Haderach
BGOL Investor

Fuckallyall

Support BGOL
Registered
Please, no one take this wrong - but I think it's a good thing to have a balance of power. Good fences make good neighbors. China has as much to lose as America in a full scale conflict. But, considering the fact that America soetimes has idiots in charge of policy, it should be difficult for America to attack anyone else, and therefore make it less likely that we do.
 

Imhotep

Star
Registered
That's a hell of a wake up call but I guarantee some company in the United States has a way to detect electric power subs and they can outfit the entire U.S. Navy for a few billion.

That should make us safe:rolleyes:

Co-sign and its doesn't have to work 100% of the time
 

QueEx

Rising Star
Super Moderator
Technology to detect diesel-electric subs is already in existence and deployable by the USN which uses low frequency active sonar on a towed-array sensor. The U.S. Navy has stopped using them on a regular basis because it is believed that they cause harm to marine life, especially whales.

I would also read with great suspicion a report that someone just sneaked the fuck up on us right at the dinner table. Misinformation works in your favor, sometimes. Sometimes you don't want the other side to know that you can track them or how well you can track them (especially in the passive mode). The Soviets had a form of communication that they "thought" was unbreakable. LOL. Hell, I know for a fact that we could break it, but acted not only as if we couldn't break it but at one point we acted as though we didn't even know anything about the system.

QueEx
 

BigUnc

Potential Star
Registered
The possibility that this happened is real. A submarine running on batteries is extremely hard to detect with passive sonar. Active sonar can detect objects but shipboard active sonar isn't used on a regular basis because active pinging is like a bright beacon in the darkness so you would give away your location in an instance and can be heard much farther than it can detect.

The usual method back in the day(early 80's) was for the carrier to remain as quiet as possible:lol:....inside an inner screen of 2 Cruiser's,1 destroyer and 1 frigate minimum then have picket ships(numerous Frigates, Destroyers and your own attack subs positioned in a circular pattern as far as 200 miles away from the carrier running quiet with it's passive sonar strung out listening. Your attached helos would drop sonar buoys in a field or line patterns also listening. Plus you had the carrier based ASW assets to do the same. You had other assets at your disposal but I'll not name them right now.

If the 2 forces technologies are essentially equal then it comes down to tactics and the ability of the crews to carry out those tactics. Seems as though this particular Chinese crew had it's shit together, caught a idea on where the carrier was and worked it's way past the outer pickets into the inner screen and got into a position to launch it's weapons if it so desired. Typical cat and mouse game on the high seas. The U.S.S Kitty Hawk was built in the 60's and no matter what they've done to her since I'll bet it's still puts out alot of noise into the water and easily picked up by modern passive sonars at a very far distance.

But then again this could be some bullshit put out by the Navy to sucker the Chinese.
 

Imhotep

Star
Registered
The possibility that this happened is real. A submarine running on batteries is extremely hard to detect with passive sonar. Active sonar can detect objects but shipboard active sonar isn't used on a regular basis because active pinging is like a bright beacon in the darkness so you would give away your location in an instance and can be heard much farther than it can detect.

The usual method back in the day(early 80's) was for the carrier to remain as quiet as possible:lol:....inside an inner screen of 2 Cruiser's,1 destroyer and 1 frigate minimum then have picket ships(numerous Frigates, Destroyers and your own attack subs positioned in a circular pattern as far as 200 miles away from the carrier running quiet with it's passive sonar strung out listening. Your attached helos would drop sonar buoys in a field or line patterns also listening. Plus you had the carrier based ASW assets to do the same. You had other assets at your disposal but I'll not name them right now.

If the 2 forces technologies are essentially equal then it comes down to tactics and the ability of the crews to carry out those tactics. Seems as though this particular Chinese crew had it's shit together, caught a idea on where the carrier was and worked it's way past the outer pickets into the inner screen and got into a position to launch it's weapons if it so desired. Typical cat and mouse game on the high seas. The U.S.S Kitty Hawk was built in the 60's and no matter what they've done to her since I'll bet it's still puts out alot of noise into the water and easily picked up by modern passive sonars at a very far distance.

But then again this could be some bullshit put out by the Navy to sucker the Chinese.

You ex-navy? :cool:
 

actinanass

Rising Star
BGOL Investor
Please, no one take this wrong - but I think it's a good thing to have a balance of power. Good fences make good neighbors. China has as much to lose as America in a full scale conflict. But, considering the fact that America soetimes has idiots in charge of policy, it should be difficult for America to attack anyone else, and therefore make it less likely that we do.

You raise a good point with this statement. However, I'm not worried about our government waging war against China *at least not now*. I'm more worried about China getting the wrong leader in, who doesn't really care about the relationship with the west. Once that happens, we might need to prepare for a TRUE head up war in the future. As long as China is about making money, the safer the west will be.

P.S. I wouldn't worry about this story as much. Reason being, our military tends to innovate faster than any other military in the world. It takes one embarrassment *like this* to get things on track. BTW, this makes me NOT want Hilary as president....
 

BigUnc

Potential Star
Registered
Tin Can Man !!! LOL . . . though the Spruance
class was much larger than the ole tin cans.

QueEx

Wouldn't have it any other way. Yeah the Spruance class was big, fast and quiet.I remember we almost collided with a Los Angeles class sub cause they couldn't hear us and surfaced right in front of us. The hull type was the prototype for the Ticonderoga class Aegis Cruisers and the follow on class of destroyers they are building now. only problem with them was it only carried point defense missiles and CIWS if we ever got attacked from the air. A sub or another surface ship was in trouble if they went up against one.
 

LennyNero1972

Sleeping Deity.
BGOL Investor
China advancing laser weapons program

I was just goofing around the net when I stumbled upon this article. The War on Terror just got a little more interesting. I see the the US bumping heads with China and Russia soon.


China advancing laser weapons program
Technology equals or surpasses U.S. capability
Posted: November 22, 1999
1:00 am Eastern

By Jon E. Dougherty
© 2008 WorldNetDaily.com



Not only is the Chinese military advancing rapidly in the field of anti-satellite, anti-missile laser weapon technology, but its technology equals or surpasses U.S. laser weapons capabilities currently under development, informed sources have told WorldNetDaily.

According to Mark Stokes, a military author specializing in Chinese weapons development, Beijing's efforts to harness laser weapons technology began in the 1960s, under a program called Project 640-3, sanctioned by Chairman Mao Tse-tung. The Chinese, he said, renamed the project the "863 Program" in 1979, after a Chinese researcher named Sun Wanlin convinced the Central Military Commission "to maintain the pace and even raise the priority of laser development" in 1979.

Today, Beijing's effort to develop laser technology encompasses over "10,000 personnel -- including 3,000 engineers in 300 scientific research organizations -- with nearly 40 percent of China's laser research and development (R & D) devoted to military applications," Stokes wrote in an analytical paper provided to WorldNetDaily.

China's "DEW (Directed Energy Weapons) research (is) part of a larger class of weapons known to the Chinese as 'new concept weapons' (xin gainian wuqi), which include high power lasers, high power microwaves, railguns, coil guns, (and) particle beam weapons," Stokes said. "The two most important organizations involved in R&D of DEW are the China Academy of Sciences and the Commission of Science, Technology and Industry for National Defense (COSTIND)."

To underscore Beijing's fixation with laser weaponry, the Hong Kong Standard reported Nov. 15 that the Chinese have developed a laser-based anti-missile, anti-satellite system.

"China's system shoots a laser beam that destroys the [guidance systems] and causes the projectile to fall harmlessly to the ground," the paper said.

The report also noted that Beijing had "conducted tests of its new technology since August 1999," and said the system was "similar to the laser defense system technology being developed by the U.S. Air Force."

Rick Fischer, a congressional Chinese military hardware expert, told WorldNetDaily that recent photographs of Chinese main battle tanks taken during military parades held in celebration of China's 50th anniversary of Communism in October showed "what was described as a photoelectric device that may have been a ground-based laser equivalent" of the same ASAT system.

Fischer said the U.S. is currently developing a similar weapon, whereby "a ground-based laser would be capable of producing a 'dazzle'" strong enough to knock an incoming missile off course."

However, he cautioned, "the Chinese may have beat us to the punch," though he said attempts to classify the new battle tank equipment as "definitely laser technology" were inconclusive.

As early as 1997, the Army reported successfully test-firing a ground-based laser called MIRCL at an orbiting Air Force MSTI-3 research satellite as it passed over the Army's White Sands, New Mexico, test facility. According to one published report, "Two bursts from the chemical laser struck a sensor array on the MSTI-3 craft." The U.S. firms Boeing and TRW are also developing an airborne laser defense system, fitted to a cargo model of the 747 airliner, that would be capable of targeting incoming ICBMs and other medium-range missiles, either destroying them or rendering them incapacitated.

U.S. officials downplayed the results of the Army's laser tests, saying only that they were "a research experiment, not a step towards a space weapon."

But since the Hong Kong newspaper account, officials and experts in the United States have begun to re-examine the issue of Chinese military laser technology, which now may be even more advanced than developments first revealed by the Cox Committee.

According to the Cox report, Beijing had already managed to obtain sensitive laser technology enabling them to test miniature nuclear weapons and to assist the Chinese navy in locating hard-to-find U.S. nuclear submarines.

Unclassified documents provided to WorldNetDaily also provide detailed technical information on new Chinese beam director designs for high-powered laser weapons -- specifically those designed for eventual "anti-satellite missions," anti-missile applications and for blinding combatants in the field. Stokes said the Chinese were especially interested in the development of "free electron laser" weapons, "because they have a number of advantages, including their adjustable wavelength and bandwidth and their potential range of 5,000 kilometers."

According to documents, Li Hui, Director of the Beijing Institute of Remote Sensing Equipment, a developer of optical precision and photoelectronic guidance systems for surface-to-air missiles, "has cited laser technology as the only effective means to counter cruise missiles."

Hui has "encouraged the acceleration of laser weapons development," the documents said, while stressing that an "anti-cruise missile laser weapon" already developed by China "utilizes...the most mature high-energy laser technology, the deuterium-fluoride (DF) chemical laser."

"Li Hui's statement advocating ground-based laser weapons for use against missiles is not the first by a Chinese weapons developer," the documents said. "The 1028th Research Institute (RI) of the Ministry of Information Industry, a major Chinese developer of integrated air defense systems, has analyzed the use of lasers in future warfare. Such uses include active jamming of electro-optics, blinding combatants and damaging sensors, causing laser-guided weapons to deviate from their true targets, and target destruction."

The 1028th's analysis, the papers said, "concluded with the statement, 'The appearance of laser weapons will have a significant impact on modern warfare. On today's electronic battlefield, it is natural for defensive systems to use low-energy laser weapons to damage enemy electronic equipment. When high-energy lasers that can directly destroy tanks, planes and ships develop and mature, they will be formidable offensive weapons.'"

Stokes' research supports the Cox Committee's conclusions about Chinese intentions to build a variety of high-tech laser weapons. Though he said "there is no proof or strong indication that development" of such weapons "is in a more advanced stage in China than in the U.S.," he notes that China's People's Liberation Army "is placing greater emphasis on lasers and their potential military applications."

"The Academy of Military Science, the PLA's leading think-tank on future warfare," Stokes said, "believes lasers will be an integral aspect of 21st century war."

/news/archives.asp?ARCHIVE_ID=16Charles Smith, a WorldNetDaily staff writer and founder of Softwar, wrote Jan. 26 that new Chinese laser systems not only are rapidly advancing, but they incorporate microchip technology obtained through export from the U.S.

"The Clinton administration allowed the export of advanced radiation-hardened microchip technology, vital electronic components for military satellites and nuclear weapons, to Russia and China," Smith wrote. The technology allowed China to build air-defense laser systems powerful enough to deliver an "estimated...10,000 watts of output power on a target up to 500 miles away." Smith said the Chinese are preparing to deploy "an even more powerful ground-based laser by the year 2000."

The Pentagon declined to comment on current Chinese laser weapons development, but most experts who spoke with WorldNetDaily believe the Chinese have obtained advanced laser technology from multiple sources. They also believe Beijing is involved in an ongoing plan to "acquire" new laser weapons technologies either by producing them domestically, buying them or through espionage.

William Triplett II, co-author of the Chinese espionage bestseller, "Year of the Rat," and a new book detailing Chinese military prowess called "Red Dragon Rising," said he believed Beijing may have stolen some U.S. ASAT and laser technology, but indicated that in the end that may prove to be a small part of their developmental process.

"Right now the Chinese are in the cat-bird seat," he said. "They have holes in their capabilities, but they have access to cutting-edge military technology from both Russia and the U.S. What they couldn't get from us they have bought from Moscow."

Triplett said that while China's use of laser technology was "advanced," Beijing's ASAT and anti-missile laser weaponry was "not yet equal" to U.S. capabilities.

"The degree to which espionage" was involved with Chinese acquisition of laser technology "is really not clear," said Fischer. "We can assume with a high degree of certainty that Beijing is seeking Russian laser technology, but they themselves have devoted enormous resources" to the research and development of laser weaponry, he said.

Stokes added, "Chinese analysts see directed energy weapons as important for China's air defense and counterspace efforts. DEW efforts also reflect a diversification of China's nuclear weapons industry."



Jon E. Dougherty is a Missouri-based writer and the author of "Illegals: The Imminent Threat Posed by Our Unsecured U.S.-Mexico Border."

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=15233
 
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