I agree with that also.
This goes both ways.
However, you can't act like everyone will feel the same way we do. It's all about protecting yourself.
Trayvon Martin: Florida was test case for NRA-created 'stand your ground' law
- Thread starter thoughtone
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I agree with that also.
This goes both ways.
However, you can't act like everyone will feel the same way we do. It's all about protecting yourself.
Nothing to add to the discussion but damn..........And don't go thinking just because you got that fine ass chocolate woman in your sig, I'm going to start agreeing with you a lot.
I think.
She is fine!
No, no, no. Shake yourself until you lose that from your mind.
We already know how to protect ourselves. We've been doing it for the 400 yrs we've been here. That lesson is ingrained. The teachable moment should "White folks stop victimizing and harassing Black people based on your racism".
You added enough.
No, no, no. Shake yourself until you lose that from your mind.
We already know how to protect ourselves. We've been doing it for the 400 yrs we've been here. That lesson is ingrained. The teachable moment should "White folks stop victimizing and harassing Black people based on your racism".
You added enough.
Look I agree with all of that, but you have to understand this. Not all of our youth understands that there's a group of people who's not going play by those rules. That's just reality. Now, I'm not saying be afraid of white people. Fuck that! What I'm saying is that every person *white, black, mexican, ect* does not have your best interest at any given moment. Therefore, you must stay vigilant at all times. You must know what to do if some fool is following you. You must know how to talk to the police so they won't do the bullshit. You must also understand the law in full detail. This is stuff we need to be teaching our youth. I understand your point that white folks need to understand that not every black face wants to rob. However, it is wishful thinking to believe that we can make them change. The only thing we have control over is our actions. Quit worrying about what white folks do, and lets all try to fix our community.
You keep saying that stuff like we dont' already teach that. Trayvon was aware that he was being followed and it looks like he confronted Zimmerman because he probably didn't want this guy to know where he lived/was staying, a normal reaction.
I don't care if they change or not. I'm not making their problem my problem. That's freedom. Anything less is mental slavery.
That's the issue. YOU DON'T CONFRONT SOMEONE YOU DON'T KNOW.
If you're under the age of 21, you can't have a gun. That means, the stand your ground law does not apply to you in a lot of cases. *it's all up to the jury, and the judge on that end*. If Zimmerman would of called the police instead of his girl, he probably would still be alive right now. That's a big probably because how dumb Zimmerman was.
I'm not telling you to care one way, or another. I'm saying tell the youth to protect their neck from everybody at all times. This is not a white vs black issue. This whole case is a teachable moment on how to be aware of everything around you, and how NOT to act if you're protecting your community. Both sides made poor judgement. If that wasn't the case, Trayvon would still be alive right now.
The dead boy didn't make any poor decisions. It's perfectly natural to not want a stranger to follow you home. He ran and still was being followed, he made his stand. SYG is made especially for people like Martin. You don't need a gun to defend yourself.
You keep saying that and I keep asking "What do you think Black people tell their children now, if not that very thing?".
(3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
The above is Florida's SYG; where does it mention "Gun" ???
Pure speculation. But, since where speculating, I would venture to speculate that absent that call, we would never know a lot of what took place leading up to Trayvon's death.
Why strain to make this Trayvon's fault ??? If Zimmerman had not presumed Travon's guilt and minded his own damn business, neither of them would be in the predicament they now find themselves.
He did make a poor choice; however, that doesn't mean Zimmerman is any less guilty.
If you don't have a firearm, confronting someone in such a situation is stupid. I would have assumed robbery attempt and hauled ass through the backyards. It wouldn't have helped that Zimmerman looks like some shaved head Mexican from the west side to begin with.
I agree that Zimmerman harassed the kid and killed him. All I am saying is I would have still been alive. Why? I would have hauled ass. Strategically hauled ass.
Been there done that when I was his age. Acted like I was going to the side door of a house and bolted through the backyard. Was someone trying to rob or kill me? I'll never know. Why? I didn't stick around to find out. Car following me and circled the block. I got out of dodge.
He tried retreat or am I the only person that remembers the part of Zimmerman's 911 call when he had to run to keep up with him? He was a visitor to the area, Zimmerman lived there so he knew the layout of the land better than Martin.
So when retreat hasn't worked, what option did he have left?
I don't think his retreat plan was effective.
He didn't need to know the layout; he just needed to hit the backyards if he thought he was in danger.
Trying to retreat and retreating in an effective manner are two different things. That said, that doesn't mean I don't think Zimmerman is guilty as shit(I don't say this for you, I say this for others who may twist my words).
It's sad that he would have to even come across some horseshit. Who expects to have to retreat in an effective manner when he or she is going to get snacks? But kids in the hood are faced with that scenario every single day. Going to see a girl in another hood puts you in the same situation(you don't know the layout).
It's not the victim's fault, but knowing how to get out of dodge helps to avoid ending up on the news.
You're not alone.
I haven't seen the layout, but was there a clear shot, backyard-to-backyard ??? How much speculation do we have to do GC ??? In almost every set of circumstances, hindsight is 20-20.
I think Trayvon retreated enough when Zimmerman had to leave his vehicle to pursue him (obviously at that point Trayvon was moving along about his business). Of course, whatever degree of retreating Trayvon was able to do was not enough, obviously, but how much would have been enough? Had Trayvon ran, would Zimmerman have planted a longer-range one in his back? I know; we'll never know. And maybe you're right; but we'll never know.
I hear you but there was nowhere else to run without leading this character to your home (his father's girl's home to be exact).
From the map I've seen of the apartment complex, it was a large common backyard area with the backdoors of two different buildings facing, like typical apartment set up.
The boy had tried to get away and I have to admit, I wouldn't some fool to know where I stay either. In different circumstances, my wife has had cars follow her and she lost them by knowing the neighborhood and making a bunch of false turns before she came home. She's a 30+ yr old woman, I don't expect a 17yr old boy to have the same problem solving capabilities.
I was just speaking from my experience. It is best to assume someone following you is armed and has bad intentions. In such a case, I made myself unavailable.
Even at 17, Zimmerman would have thought I was Batman the way I would have disappeared into the night. I'm pretty sure there was a time or two I would have been a story on the news if I didn't.
It is my belief that Trayvon didn't expect Zimmerman to be armed or such a threat. I would have assumed otherwise -- even at 17. I am not blaming Trayvon at all. It's something I tell my oldest son. Assume someone who acts like he has an advantage has one. Some people don't expect the worst from people, I do.
There is always a place to run. Like I told Que, I don't think he thought Zimmerman was the danger that he was.
Would he have took different actions if it was a car full of cats in doo rags circling and mean mugging?
I made a typo.
I meant if TRAYVON would of called the police instead of his girl, he would probably be still alive today.
1. Deadly force tends to mean using a weapon.
2. I recalled saying that it was bad judgement on BOTH ENDS. You can't say that Trayvon made the best decisions in this situation. I'm still mad at the fact that Zimmerman bitch ass got out of his truck trying to be supercop. You just want my position to be one way, don't ya?
This is me being objective.
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How could you make a typo of your thoughts? More like a Freudian Slip.
How could you be objective when you put the onus on the victim? Trayvon would be alive if that racist, embolden by that racist law didn't profile and then murder him!
If Trayvon had called police instead of his girlfriend, do we know which 911 system would have received the call? You ASSUME that it would have been the Sanford, Florida local PD.
Over the years, I've used my cellphone to call 911 several times for different emergencies and for many, if not most, of those calls the 911 operation answering the call was not local -- especially when I was outside of my home area code. Trayvon was using a cellphone miles outside of his home a/c. Maybe the system has gotten better, IDK, but unless it has, I'm not so certain that your assumption is a game-changer, at all.
Again, you're using your personal experiences to define things that may mean different things to different people in different circumstances. (The law would define as a deadly weapon ANY instrumentality when properly used that can or did cause death, i.e., an automobile, a crescent wrench, a thin metal wire, your bare hands).
Nevertheless, by your NEW definition, how does that change your statement ?
I can't say that Trayvon didn't make the best decisions either. I don't have the benefit of knowing what was going on in Trayvon's mind at all times relevant to your assumptions. Post-game quarterbacking when you can see the replay and rewind is one thing, but quite another when none of us saw theygame and there is no replay.
No, but its not unusual for one to arrive at that conclusion absent the use of sound reasoning.
I understand your point geno -- its best to make certain assumptions and to quickly extract oneself -- in order to live and tell about it. Perhaps, how Trayvon could have reacted and survived is another thread. But irrespective of whether Trayvon made "all-of-the-right" moves to save himself, I guess my concern/focus is on the wrongful acts of others that make it necessary that the innocent make "every-right-decision" or be placed in a position of suffering serious bodily injury or being mortally wounded.
You're debating rationality here when the situation itself was dominated by fear/profiling/racism. When you add those variables rational thinking and actions have always tended to go right out of the equation.
I'm sorry. I must of missed that sentence that said that Stand your Ground was a racist law.
1. Que, you know me better than that. I did not make that statement because I believed absolutely that Trayvon would of been saved in that situation. However, to act as if Trayvon calling 9-11 wouldn't have help is an asinine statement on your part. I'm not condemning Trayvon. Trayvon was minding his own business. All I'm doing is going through both parties decision making abilities, and learn from them. Seems like you can't get that point.
2. I'm going with what the facts that was presented to us. We can talk about the facts right? When more details come out, I will discuss those as well.
Now, que, forgive me for being a bit straight forward, but I lived on both sides of the tracks. I was raised to not leave myself open to any type of harm when I'm out, and about. I was taught that if someone is following you, and they are not the cops, to get to your property *or somewhere very familiar like store, ect* as fast as possible. If they don't know you by name, then they don't know you.
Well, how the hell was I to know that you didn't mean what you said ??? LOL. Its not like you said, hey, this is what I'm saying out the side of my neck, but I really mean something different.
Try to keep shit straight bro. You said, "I meant if TRAYVON would of called the police instead of his girl, he would probably be still alive today." Again, try to say what you mean and mean what you say.
Now, if you meant what I quoted, how the hell do you know who would have answered that call from Trayvon's cell phone ???
If you didn't mean what I just quoted, why say it ???
I don't know that Trayvon would or wouldn't have been helped by a 911 call. What I said was, I'm not certain that would have been true - since it has been my extensive experience that calling 911 from a cell phone, especially when away from home, typically results in me connecting to an emergency authority distant from my location, sometimes even out of state.
P.S., as someone above has aptly pointed out, whether Trayvon "could have" done this or "could have" done that - - has absolutely nothing to do with whether Zimmerman pursued Trayvon, resulting in his death. We can parse shit all day long, but that is the issue.
Yep. And, I suggest you stick with the "facts" -- that also means, stop assuming shit, LOL, unless you say you're assuming shit. Right ?
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Well, how the hell was I to know that you didn't mean what you said ??? LOL. Its not like you said, hey, this is what I'm saying out the side of my neck, but I really mean something different.
Try to keep shit straight bro. You said, "I meant if TRAYVON would of called the police instead of his girl, he would probably be still alive today." Again, try to say what you mean and mean what you say.
Now, if you meant what I quoted, how the hell do you know who would have answered that call from Trayvon's cell phone ???
If you didn't mean what I just quoted, why say it ???
I don't know that Trayvon would or wouldn't have been helped by a 911 call. What I said was, I'm not certain that would have been true - since it has been my extensive experience that calling 911 from a cell phone, especially when away from home, typically results in me connecting to an emergency authority distant from my location, sometimes even out of state.
P.S., as someone above has aptly pointed out, whether Trayvon "could have" done this or "could have" done that - - has absolutely nothing to do with whether Zimmerman pursued Trayvon, resulting in his death. We can parse shit all day long, but that is the issue.
Yep. And, I suggest you stick with the "facts" -- that also means, stop assuming shit, LOL, unless you say you're assuming shit. Right ?
1. Didn't I say "probably". That's not an absolute statement. I would think an objective person like you would understand that.
2. Of course if Zimmerman didn't pursue, Trayvon, more than likely, would be alive right now.
I'm done with this situation until the trial.
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