tony gonzales - myth or actually talented?

[cranrab]

i'm no football expert by a longshot... i'm a casual fan... but for YEARS i've been listening to this junk about all pro this all pro that...

tony gonzales has NEVER impressed me with any of the performances i've watched... this season TG is completely unimpressive, and i'm nauseated listening to all these people fumble for lame excuses... green has thrown plenty passes to kennison, and had numerous balls dropped by parker, but why isn't gonzales even getting anything thrown his way?

to me, he's overblown in the proportions of tobe...

so tell me, REAL football heads with experience or at least a better than average understanding of THE GAME (not on ea sports or sega please) WHY is tony gonzales supposedly THE REAL DEAL?

don't point to numbers, because it's the same garbage people who don't understand basketball try to use to support tobe... don't point to all star balloting, or 1st team this or that, because that's always HYPE and publicity generated...

i'm hoping someone tells me he runs his routes extremely well, he blocks well, his speed is comparable to WRs, or he uses his physical attributes to create disadvantages over smaller defenders (which isn't ACTUAL talent or skill by the way)...

 

[Sango]

Tony is not in the myth category, he's actually talented in the sense that he can block better than most tight ends but furthermore that he's got great hands. He's been in an offense that has lacked the premier receiver and has Produced. I guess his talent comes as a result of simply being able to play football above avg. He's not fast, his route running isn't nothing to brag about and his size helps him against disadvantaged defenders. I remember how crazy it was when they played Denver last year and they had Champ Bailey (overrated) covering Tony Gonzales as ridiculous as I thought it was a CB on a TE, the chiefs didn't and don't have anyone at the receiver position to attract the attention of defenses. something like a Joe Horn, Jimmy Smith...

 

[cranrab]

that helps some, but then i ask this...

you got featured receivers who week in and week out attract alot of attention from the D:

tim brown, TO, marvin harrison, etc... but STILL they manage to produce... they're PLAYMAKERS and GAMEBREAKERS in spite of the coverage... even though the defensive coordinators do their best, those receivers get open and make an impact...

i've watched tony gonzales play, applied that thinking and said, NOT HIM...

that said, can tony gonzales even stack up against a dave casper, dwight clark, mark chmura, or kellen winslow? hell, even his contemporary TEs alge crumpler or antonio gates?

BTW does anyone else think that sammy parker from KC is headed the same way as koren robinson did last season?

 

[Sango]

Man I had some faith in Sammy Parker what a bum he's turning out to be.....Koren's talented yet this mofuka would go out and party then straight into meetings falling asleep, wtf.

Tony's a consistent playmaker if Trent Green gets the time to throw to him, now I don't think he's a Gamebreaker. Antonio Gates is a Gamebreaker, speed, size, hands..etc.. Tony might not be as talented but talented he is.

In your opinion what makes Alge Crumpler so much better than Tony? What do you think of Jeremy Shockey or Todd Heap?

 

[cranrab]

i think jeremy shockey is OVERrated, don't know much about todd heap...

i'm not sure if alge crumpler is BETTER than tony gonzales, but i know he catches more balls... does that mean he gets open more? does that mean vick relies on crumpler as more of a crutch? or gets more 1st looks in the read from vick?

i'm just wondering why, IF tony gonzales is all world (like he's been advertised), then WHY isn't he catching more balls, and making more significant contributions to the chiefs O?

 

[RunawaySlave]

Problem is Cran....you're looking at the Tight End spot as a ​

receiver spot. The TE is really not a receiver, but a LINEMAN​

who is eligible to catch passes. His primary responsibility, is ​

to block and if he's able to produce a few catches offensively,​

then it's all icing on the cake. Nowadays, it sort of depends​

on the offensive philosophy of the coach, whether the TE ​

will actually be included in the game plan as more than a blocker​

Under the previous coach (Marty Schottenheimer), TG's ​

speed was utilized much more in the open field and he ​

became a star. (Although, I suspect one of the few latino​

players at a skill position might've had something to do​

with it). As the years went by, and the coaches changed,​

the philosphy of the offense shifted from the pass, to the ​

run. Add to that years of wear and tear on those 250lbs+​

knees and I guarantee you that Gonzalez ain't nowhere​

near the athlete he used to be....But he still has a name​

and a phat contract. So you know he's gonna get his touches.​

Just picture ya boi AI making 14 mil per season and only ​

playing 25 minutes a game. Or only getting to touch the ​

ball as often as say a Kurt Thomas got to touch it......​

Gonzalez has GOT to play. His salary dictates it. ​

Anyway, the long and short of it, is that TG has lost more​

than a step or two....and the game has progressed in recent​

years. The defenses have shifted. In past years, it was the​

linebackers who guarded the TightEnds. And sometimes​

the Strong Safety would do it if the TE had a reputation​

for speed. But in recent years, more often than not, the​

SS will ALWAYS guard the TE now and sometimes even​

Nickel backs. Who are usually CBs used to guarding the ​

fastest guys on the field. As long as TG is being guarded ​

by DBs and not LBs, he is not gonna be as effective.​

He's not a power runner (like Shockey), that can bull​

run over smaller DBs. That's not his game​

Another problem for Gonzalez (as I see it), is that the ​

Chiefs have no WR that requires special attention like​

they used to have. Vermeil is too busy trying to create​

mismatches for his RBs. His WRs aren't anything special.​

I suspect if the Chiefs had a fair to midland WR like​

Santana Moss, Derrick Mason or Chad Johnson, you'd​

see Gonzalez catch more passes​

 

[dentskins]

.........

receiver spot. The TE is really not a receiver, but a LINEMAN​

who is eligible to catch passes. His primary responsibility, is ​

to block and if he's able to produce a few catches offensively,​

.............

let's keep it to the facts RS...it's football season...l

 

[RunawaySlave]

Why you think there are so few TEs that even have​

more than 30 or 40 catches in 16 games?? Most of​

them will get maybe three passes thrown at them​

per game and that's it.....the rest of the time, they​

will be blocking. Sometimes even on pass plays​

 

[Sango]

Weren't the Chiefs coached by Vermeil last year also??? Tony Gonzales caught over 90 passes if I'm right, so he gets his touches b/c he gets open, not b/c of speed or marty, but moreso b/c he's got talent/hands. I highly doubt his publicity came as a result of him being latino, but more b/c he caught an overwhelming amount of passes. (in the receiver range).. and has done so for a couple of years. TE's aren't supposed to be doing that. Alge Crumpler has not had more catches than Gonzales (the way the chiefs are playing he might this year). Cran what runaway said the chiefs have been placing a lot of focus on their running game...yet their receivers have never been worth a damn... and I think that almost every player in the league loses more than a step with age, contrary to the commentators I say Deion has lost a huge step and those mofukas had the nerve to say that he's faster, yea right.....



I agree Shockey is a bit overrated, hands are suspect, yet with him running over DB's, I EXpect that from him or anyone who outweighs their tackler in the league. Todd Heap I haven't had the chance to see in the game b/c he's been hurt a lot, similar to shockey yet he's got a horrible QB who can't read a book with no words...

 

[Sango]

Facts:
Alge Crumpler
RECEIVING

Year Team G GS No Yards Avg Lg TD 20+ 40+ FD
2001 Atlanta Falcons 16 12 25 330 13.2 57 3 4 3 10
2002 Atlanta Falcons 16 9 36 455 12.6 33 5 6 0 26
2003 Atlanta Falcons 16 16 44 552 12.5 63 3 8 2 26
2004 Atlanta Falcons 14 14 48 774 16.1 49 6 17 2 32
2005 Atlanta Falcons 4 4 13 158 12.2 30 1 3 0 9


Tony Gonzalez
Year Team G GS No Yards Avg Lg TD 20+ 40+ FD
1997 Kansas City Chiefs 16 0 33 368 11.2 30 2 5 0 21
1998 Kansas City Chiefs 16 16 59 621 10.5 32 2 6 0 33
1999 Kansas City Chiefs 15 15 76 849 11.2 73 11 8 1 47
2000 Kansas City Chiefs 16 16 93 1203 12.9 39 9 16 0 66
2001 Kansas City Chiefs 16 16 73 917 12.6 36 6 13 0 49
2002 Kansas City Chiefs 16 16 63 773 12.3 42 7 10 1 39
2003 Kansas City Chiefs 16 16 71 916 12.9 67 10 14 2 48
2004 Kansas City Chiefs 16 16 102 1258 12.3 32 7 19 0 69
2005 Kansas City Chiefs 4 4 16 129 8.1 17 0 0 0 6

Man listen......... No Contest

 

[RunawaySlave]

Crumpler is a good athlete, but I wouldn't even put him​

in the top 5 among TEs....​

 

[cranrab]

Facts:
Alge Crumpler
RECEIVING

Year Team G GS No Yards Avg Lg TD 20+ 40+ FD
2001 Atlanta Falcons 16 12 25 330 13.2 57 3 4 3 10
2002 Atlanta Falcons 16 9 36 455 12.6 33 5 6 0 26
2003 Atlanta Falcons 16 16 44 552 12.5 63 3 8 2 26
2004 Atlanta Falcons 14 14 48 774 16.1 49 6 17 2 32
2005 Atlanta Falcons 4 4 13 158 12.2 30 1 3 0 9


Tony Gonzalez
Year Team G GS No Yards Avg Lg TD 20+ 40+ FD
1997 Kansas City Chiefs 16 0 33 368 11.2 30 2 5 0 21
1998 Kansas City Chiefs 16 16 59 621 10.5 32 2 6 0 33
1999 Kansas City Chiefs 15 15 76 849 11.2 73 11 8 1 47
2000 Kansas City Chiefs 16 16 93 1203 12.9 39 9 16 0 66
2001 Kansas City Chiefs 16 16 73 917 12.6 36 6 13 0 49
2002 Kansas City Chiefs 16 16 63 773 12.3 42 7 10 1 39
2003 Kansas City Chiefs 16 16 71 916 12.9 67 10 14 2 48
2004 Kansas City Chiefs 16 16 102 1258 12.3 32 7 19 0 69
2005 Kansas City Chiefs 4 4 16 129 8.1 17 0 0 0 6

Man listen......... No Contest

points well taken, but i believe that gonzales' value based on receptions is skewed because of the O he plays in... not coincidentally, gonzales also played in and STARTED more games than crumpler...

the columns were misaligned, but if i read them correctly, it is of interest that crumpler had only 1 fewer TD receptions than gonzales, despite playing in 2 fewer games... the average yards/reception were also interesting too... perhaps that gonzales is/was a 'dump off' receiver...

but, some numbers such as receptions, total yards, and first downs are overwhelmingly (at least for last season) in favor of gonzales... so i'll table the issue for now... it appears however, that a comparison of THIS season may give us reason to ask the question AGAIN in january...

 

[CarlJohnson]

You also have the fact that with holmes out other teams are less concerned with the runing game so you'll teams blitzing more, so instead of running his route he has to try to pick up a blitzing linebacker.

 

[Helico-pterFunk]

She ain't got shit on Tony Gonzales's Gold Diggin hoe

...........

 

[xfactor]

^^^

Excellent post H-Funk.

T Gonzales has a bad wife.

Speaking of Crumpler - He just signed with the Tennessee Titans. Anyone think he'll have similar success to what he had playing for the Falcons?

 

[Diamels]

^^^

T Gonzales has a bad wife.