tom brady is the patriots' leader - or not?

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cranrab

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BGOL Investor
PART 1: where is the O?

let me start this thread by stating that i am FAR from an expert on football. i am a casual fan of the sport, and did not play beyond a single season of pop warner as a child.

in the past few years, i have been trying to learn about the ACTUAL SPORT in order to enhance my personal knowledge of an interesting game.

i AM aware that while NFL teams usually consist of MANY players on separate units (O, D, special teams), it is typically the QB that gets the glory or the blame. i believe that this is a mistake, and is usually propelled by our media driven culture and fanboy hype in equal parts.

i also believe (based solely on my personal observation) that tom brady is a competent QB, BUT CLEARLY NOT THE LEADER OF THE NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS. and FAR from the best QB to have ever played the game.

here is why:

1) in 8 seasons with bill bellichik as head coach, the O of the new england patriots has only outranked/outperformed the D 3 times:

2002 O - 10th (finished 9-7, no playoffs)
2002 D - 17th

2005 O - 10th (finished 10-6, wild card team)
2005 D - 17th

2007 O - 1st (finished 16-0, superbowl favorite)
2007 D - 4th

if tom brady is the best QB to have ever played, why hasn't the O outranked/outperformed the D more often?

coming up next in PART 2: D is the key
 
PART 2: D is the key

in PART 1, i pointed out that in 8 seasons, the O has only outranked/outperformed the D in 3 of those seasons. in PART 2, let's see what happened in the other 5 seasons.

2000 O - 25th
2000 D - 17th (finished 5-11)

2001 O - 6th
2001 D - 6th (finished 11-5, superbowl champions)

2003 O - 12th
2003 D - 1st (finished 14-2, superbowl champions)

2004 O - 4th
2004 D - 2nd (finished 14-2, superbowl champions)

2006 O - 7th
2006 D - 2nd (finished 12-4, lost AFC title game)

so here is what we know:

1a) the new england patriots O outranked/outperformed the D 3 times since bill bellichik became head coach
1b) the new england patriots D outranked/outperformed the O 4 times since bill bellichik became head coach

2) the new england patriots O and D tied once

3a) the new england patriots O has NEVER outranked/outperformed the D in a season where they were superbowl champions
3b) the new england patriots D has outranked/outperformed the O TWICE in seasons where they were superbowl champions

so doesn't history prove that it has been the D which has lead the new england patriots to the superbowl, and NOT tom brady or the O?

coming up next in PART 3: it doesn't get any better
 
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PART 3: it doesn't get any better

the case for tom brady as "patriots leader" continues to fall apart as you examine it in closer detail.

in PART 1 it was pointed out that the O has outranked/outperformed the D in only 3 of 8 seasons, none of which have yielded a superbowl victory (although this season is still pending).

in PART 2 it was pointed out that the D has outranked/outperformed the O in 4 of 8 seasons, with the patriots winning the superbowl twice.

in PART 3, i will compare the new england passing game v. rushing game in their superbowl victory seasons.

2001 passing - 22nd
2001 rushing - 13th

2003 passing - 9th
2003 rushing - 27th

2004 passing - 11th
2004 rushing - 7th

so not only has the new england patriots D outranked/outperformed the O in superbowl victory seasons, now it is clear that the new england patriots rushing game has outranked/outperformed the passing game in superbowl victory seasons as well.

D > O, and rushing > passing, so then how do people conclude that tom brady is/has been the key to new england patriots success?
 
cranrab said:
tom brady is the patriots' leader - or not?
Click to expand...

As the QB, I'd say he's the leader of the offense but the entire team? I think that falls on the head coach. I also agree with you that the QB gets too much credit and too much blame.

I think an NFL roster is 53 players (somebody correct me if I'm wrong) and with that much personnel, I think it's extremely difficult to micromanage.

They say in football (well any sport) that defense wins championships and in football a strong running game is essential for clock management purposes and moving the chains... Especially if you have the LEAD down the stretch. It also keeps the opposing D on the field and wears them down.

That is why I think the Giants will win the Super Bowl. They have a strong running game and they have an excellent pass rush with Osi Umenyoira and Michael Strahan. Their receivers should fare well too, especially Burress as I've seen tall receivers torch NE's secondary (in the times I've seen them play) If Brady is hobbled with that ankle, he's going to be in trouble and even with Maroney playing well recently, I'm not sure if he can carry it over to the big game.

Then again, I tend to root for the under dog in championship games :lol:
 
Tom is the leader.Hes an inspiration. he never misses practices. Always in every weight training session. Every off season program he never misses. Has 5 pro Bowl Apperances.He an all time great.Pats players even said it themselves. But great coaching always goes with a great team. Tom has preformed well in super bowls too.Such as the last two hes been in. In the superbowl in 2003 he went 32-48 for 354 and 3 touchdowns(completions were a super bowl record). Hes a great leader. You ever seen him on the side line? Always hyping his players before a game.

Tom Brady is the key to their success because he doesn't usally make mistakes in big games
Also Brady also had a ankle sprain before that superbowl performance. He will do well like last time against NYG defenders. NE defense always stepsup when they need it(0 second half touchdowns scored on the Pats defense in the playoffs). Pats are a better team the the Giants and they beat better teams in the playoffs(The Jaguars). It should be close at first. But the Pats pull away in the second half...as usual.
 
Tom Brady is what most NFL teams look for in their QB. TEAM PLAYER!

Like my man said above..he do everything that the teams do. He not a superstar he is a team player. When you have a cat like that as your qb you will expect greatness.
 
bump for history's sake.

the new england patriots STILL have yet to win a superbowl in a season where the O has outranked the D.

maybe people should be taking a closer look at what mike vrabel or teddy bruschi have contributed over the years instead of the QB.
 
i'm glad you got it right. this is all about image not ability. you only have to review the numbers you posted to understand the truth. Defense rules, it almost always does, all you have to do is look at the baltimore ravens during that superbowl run. wow, horible offense, excellent defense. the numbers are what they are but tonight when the patriots had all the numbers, the giants still found a way to do it! go big blue
 
How the fuck do you not know anything about sports but know how to put that list together? You PLAYED pop fucking warner but needto learn about the "ACTUAL SPORT"?
 
While everyone is patting themselves on the back. Don't forget this...

xfactor said:
They say in football (well any sport) that defense wins championships and in football a strong running game is essential for clock management purposes and moving the chains... Especially if you have the LEAD down the stretch. It also keeps the opposing D on the field and wears them down.

That is why I think the Giants will win the Super Bowl. They have a strong running game and they have an excellent pass rush with Osi Umenyoira and Michael Strahan. Their receivers should fare well too, especially Burress as I've seen tall receivers torch NE's secondary (in the times I've seen them play) If Brady is hobbled with that ankle, he's going to be in trouble and even with Maroney playing well recently, I'm not sure if he can carry it over to the big game.
Click to expand...

:cool::lol:
 
xfactor said:
While everyone is patting themselves on the back. Don't forget this...



:cool::lol:
Click to expand...

If you were laughing at the fact that he pointed out that the Giants would win, I guess we got the last laugh. :lol:

GIANTS SUPERBOWL XLII CHAMPS!!
18-1...Perfect regular season. Give me a break. HA!
 
icqpimp said:
How the fuck do you not know anything about sports but know how to put that list together? You PLAYED pop fucking warner but needto learn about the "ACTUAL SPORT"?
Click to expand...

i'm still learning. my knowledge about football is a work in progress.

martial arts masters will tell you that it can take a LIFETIME to perfect a single system. i believe the same holds true for professional sports.

football is a pet project i have developed over the past few years. i am no longer content with the basics: i want to understand the ACTUAL game.
 
i wanted to add a post script to this thread, because i wanted to share some additional information about the post season.

giants fans shouldn't have been the only ones thinking "upset" as far as the superbowl was concerned. when you consider the teams each had to beat to get there, the giants actually look more like "favorites".

giants beat:

tampa bay D - 3rd
tampa bay O - 18th

dallas D - 13th
dallas O - 2nd

green bay D - 6th
green bay O - 4th

EACH AND EVERY TEAM the giants faced in the post season were TOP 4 IN THE LEAGUE in either O or D.

new england beat:

jacksonville D - 10th
jacksonville O - 6th

san diego D - 5th
san diego O - 5th

ONE TOP 5 TEAM.

where did the giants rank, you ask?

new york D - 17th
new york O - 14th
 
having been both a player and coach of football, theres more to a team than just offense or defense. that said, an offensive leader can pump up his defense, and vice versa. also, numbers do not equal greatness... he's inspired his team to do things, cant deny that.


and i still hate that team.
 
smax51 said:
numbers do not equal greatness
Click to expand...

most definitely agreed.

ironic, isn't it, that the numbers prove that?

new york giants D - 17th
new york giants O - 14th

defeated

new england patriots D - 4th
new england patriots O - 1st
 
I am Big Blue all the way but remember that Belichick is a DEFENSIVE (some say genius) coach and if you watched the game you saw he was on the sidelines with his defensive line and didn't give two shits about what the "O" was doing.
 
Djmarkxr7 said:
remember that Belichick is a DEFENSIVE (some say genius) coach and if you watched the game you saw he was on the sidelines with his defensive line and didn't give two shits about what the "O" was doing.
Click to expand...

excellent observation.

which is another reason why i would tend to point to the D as the true "leader" of the new england patriots.
 
I compare Tom Brady being the leader of the Pats to Derek Jeter being leader of the Yankees. Tom is a make no mistake type of QB.QB is supposed tobe the the leader of the offense. The players say that hes their leader. He takes the blame for games they lose and win. While Derek Jeter may not have the best stats on the team, but he is thought as being the leader. Tom is vocal and always uplifting. He never brags and always thank other players on the team. He doesnt lose then cry to the media blaming the O-line(see Peyton Manning). The players respect him and vote him leader. Thats it.
 
cranrab said:
most definitely agreed.

ironic, isn't it, that the numbers prove that?

new york giants D - 17th
new york giants O - 14th

defeated

new england patriots D - 4th
new england patriots O - 1st
Click to expand...

its beyond great.

oh and defense wins championships.

i just felt like saying that :dance:
 
Piff504 said:
Tom is a make no mistake type of QB.
Click to expand...

tough to make mistakes when you know in advance what's coming:

Specter: Belichick has been taping since 2000
Associated Press

Updated: February 13, 2008, 9:28 PM EST

Bill Belichick has been illegally taping opponents' defensive signals since he became the New England Patriots' coach in 2000, according to Sen. Arlen Specter, who said NFL commissioner Roger Goodell told him that during a meeting Wednesday.
"There was confirmation that there has been taping since 2000, when Coach Belichick took over," Specter said.


Specter said Goodell gave him that information during the 1-hour, 40-minute meeting, which was requested by Specter so the commissioner could explain his reasons for destroying the Spygate tapes and notes.

"There were a great many questions answered by Commissioner Goodell," Specter, the senior Republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee, told reporters after the meeting. "I found a lot of questions unanswerable because of the tapes and notes had been destroyed."

Goodell said Belichick told him he believed the taping was legal; Goodell said he did not concur.

"He said that's always been his interpretation since he's been the head coach," the commissioner said. "We are going to agree to disagree on the facts."

Specter, from Pennsylvania, wants to talk to other league officials about what exactly was taped and which games may have been compromised.

"We have a right to have honest football games," he said.

Goodell noted that "we were the ones that disclosed" the Patriots' illegal taping of the New York Jets' defensive signals in Week 1 of last season. Further, Goodell said, they had an admission by Belichick.

"I have nothing to hide," Goodell said.

Goodell also told Specter that that he doesn't regret destroying the Spygate tapes or the notes.

"I think it was the right thing to do," Goodell said.

Still, Specter wants to know why penalties were imposed on Belichick before the full extent of the wrongdoing was known and the tapes destroyed in a two-week span. Asked if he thinks there was a coverup, Specter demurred.

"There was an enormous amount of haste," Specter said.

He scoffed at the reasons Goodell gave for destroying the tapes and notes, particularly about trying to keep them out of competitors' hands and because Belichick had admitted to the taping.

"What's that got to do with it? There's an admission of guilt, you preserve the evidence," Specter said. As for keeping the tapes out of the hands of others: "All you have to do is lock up the tapes."

Belichick was fined $500,000 and the team was fined $250,000 because of the Spygate incident. The Patriots also forfeited a first-round draft pick.

Specter has questioned the quality of the NFL's investigation into the matter and raised the possibility of congressional hearings if he wasn't satisfied with Goodell's answers. Specter also raised the threat of Congress canceling the league's antitrust exemption and reiterated that in the meeting with Goodell.

Goodell also said he has not heard from Matt Walsh, the former Patriots employee who performed some videotaping duties for the team.

Walsh told The Associated Press last week during the Pro Bowl in Hawaii that he couldn't talk about allegations that he taped a walkthrough practice by the St. Louis Rams before the 2002 Super Bowl. New England, a two-touchdown underdog, won that game 20-17.

Goodell said he has offered Walsh a deal whereby "he has to tell the truth and he has to return anything he took improperly" in return for indemnity. Specter said he, too, wanted to talk to Walsh and perhaps offer a different deal.

Goodell also said he reserves the right to reopen the investigation if more information is uncovered.
 
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