Sergio Martinez is the fighter of the year

[Spectrum]

Espn though

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/columns/story?columnist=rafael_dan&id=5955508

Have a nice trip: Sergio Martinez gave Paul Williams the night off with one monstrous overhand left.

During the jubilant celebration inside the ring after Sergio Martinez knocked Paul Williams into another dimension, trainer Gabriel Sarmiento placed a gold-colored crown on his pupil's head.

One of the members of Martinez's team had bought the prop more or less as a gag, but it was certainly a fitting symbol for what Martinez had done, not only on that November night at Boardwalk Hall in Atlantic City, N.J., but during a year in which he blazed his way to becoming king of the middleweight division and earning his place among the top fighters in the world, pound for pound.

Martinez -- known as "Maravilla" -- won the middleweight championship by slicing up Kelly Pavlik to win a clear decision and drilled Williams in their much-anticipated rematch to cement his status as the 2010 ESPN.com fighter of the year.

Martinez, 35, had ended 2009 by going toe-to-toe with Williams in a sensational, all-action fight, but he lost a disputed majority decision. While a rematch was what boxing fans and media asked for, their promoters wanted them go to their separate ways for at least one fight until the inevitable sequel would take place.

When a fight between Williams and Pavlik could not be made -- yet again -- Martinez, who held a junior middleweight title, happily accepted the opportunity to challenge for the middleweight championship. That title means a lot in Martinez's home country of Argentina, which produced Carlos Monzon, one of the greatest middleweight champions in history and Martinez's boxing idol.

Martinez (46-2-2, 25 KOs) and Pavlik met April 17 at Boardwalk Hall and it was clear from the outset that even though Pavlik was the bigger man, it was going to be a tough fight. Martinez easily won the opening rounds with his superior boxing ability. But after Pavlik came on strong in the middle rounds, including scoring a seventh-round knockdown, Martinez turned it up a notch. He dominated down the stretch, opening a bad cut over Pavlik's right eye in the ninth round and sweeping the rest of the fight to claim the title in an outstanding performance.

After a brutal negotiation to get Williams back in the ring, because his team clearly did not want the fight (and basically was forced by HBO to take it), he and Martinez met again on Nov. 20 in a match pitting two of the top five fighters in the world. The rematch began like their first encounter had ended -- with them trading shots at a fast pace. After a blazing opening round, it looked like fight No. 2 was going to be simply a continuation of fight No. 1.

Rafael's Fighters of the Year

Year Fighter
2010 Sergio Martinez
2009 Manny Pacquiao
2008 Manny Pacquiao
2007 Floyd Mayweather Jr.
2006 Manny Pacquiao
2005 Ricky Hatton
2004 Glen Johnson
2003 James Toney
2002 Vernon Forrest
2001 Bernard Hopkins
2000 Felix Trinidad

Martinez had been landing his left hand from the outset, part of Sarmiento's plan, but when Williams left his right hand a bit too low in the second round, Martinez came over the top, connected on his jaw and obliterated him for a spectacular knockout.

Even more than the championship victory against Pavlik, the knockout of Williams was the culmination of Martinez's surprising march to the top of boxing. Just a couple of years earlier, no promoter wanted Martinez, an obscure pro who had played soccer and been a cyclist before turning to boxing. He didn't turn pro until he was 22 and fought mainly in Argentina before later fighting on the European circuit in Spain and England.

But in 2007, he hooked up with adviser Sampson Lewkowicz, the man who brought Manny Pacquiao to the United States in 2001. Lewkowicz was a friend of Martinez's manager, Ricardo Sanchez Atocha, and, like with Pacquiao, he believed in Martinez's talent and set out to find him an American promoter.

Lewkowicz sent fight DVDs to various promoters without any takers except for Lou DiBella, who was blown away by the talent he saw and signed Martinez at the end of 2007.

"I always believed I had a pretty good eye for talent," DiBella said before the Williams rematch. "When Sampson sent this DVD around I looked at it and I didn't know anything about him, and I was like, 'Oh my God, where did this guy come from?' He wasn't fighting King Kong, but he was fighting top European talent and he was playing with these guys. And I also saw speed and power. I was blown away. And I have always had a lot of faith in Sampson's eye.

"I was like, 'How is this guy not already a world champion?' And then I met him and he looks like a movie star and is the most humble guy you could ever meet. I felt that he was special and he had unusual gifts. The looks, the charm, but also a combination of power and speed. I thought it was like Christmas morning when I looked at the DVD."

Right after Martinez had starched Williams, DiBella was even more effusive in his praise.

"Martinez will have a problem making fights because that's how f------ good he is," DiBella said. "I know what I got. I got the best fighter in the world."

You know what else DiBella has? The fighter of the year.

 

[merce77]

He has my vote.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

The only correct choice. The ko of Williams cemented that shit.

 

[Alaskanredman]

http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=34211

By Jhonny Gonzalez

WBC middleweight champion Sergio Martinez has a goal to become the undisputed pound for pound king of boxing. To accomplish this, he must defeat one of the two boxers ahead of him in the pound for pound rankings, Floyd Mayweather Jr. and Manny Pacquiao. He says a fight with Pacquiao is impossible because of the Filipino's demands on the weight. Regarding a fight with Mayweather, Martinez thinks the clash is possible for the end of 2011.

"I'm ranked number two in the pound for pound, behind Pacquiao and ahead of Mayweather. My goal is to be number one and that has been my dream since I was an amateur. I have to box against one of them. With Pacquiao it will be difficult because he is so much smaller. He wants me to go under 154-pounds and for me that is impossible. With Mayweather, I believe that we can reach an agreement by the end of 2011 and I would love to fight him for the sport, and the purse, which I reckon would be around $15 million from the pay-per-view," Martinez said.

 

[Jordan Diddy Buk]

This would be an awesome fight. mr 154 and down I'm cuttin should step up. Granted pbf used to say that shit when bhop was a middleweight legend. Still I think he should bring it back but say 160 and down then sign to sergio. To me that is a more incredible match for boxing. Sergio isnt smaller, overrated, a chink, or on roids. He is probably the person who has to be the first fighter that could go into the fight as a certified favorite. I hope they make this fight.

 

[Alaskanredman]

This would be an awesome fight. mr 154 and down I'm cuttin should step up. Granted pbf used to say that shit when bhop was a middleweight legend. Still I think he should bring it back but say 160 and down then sign to sergio. To me that is a more incredible match for boxing. Sergio isnt smaller, overrated, a chink, or on roids. He is probably the person who has to be the first fighter that could go into the fight as a certified favorite. I hope they make this fight.

 

[Jordan Diddy Buk]

Is it really that hard to grasp what I was saying?

 

[Alaskanredman]

Is it really that hard to grasp what I was saying?

No it isn't. It is just an odd statement because part of it contradicts shit you've said, part of it has nothing to do with boxing skills or ability and the rest makes no sense.

Manny is smaller.... I see that point, but he is fighting for 154 titles. That shit is out the window.

Manny being overrated depends on who your are asking about his skills but based on the opinions I've seen on this board that is bullshit.

Manny being a "chink" has nothing to do with his skills but I guess that was important to you.

Manny being on PED's is a complete contradiction of shit you have said on here before.

I know you have a weird fascination with small guys fighting bigger guys and that's why Martinez seems like a good choice to you, but that one sentence made no sense at all. I don't know why you thought it made sense to say that shit. Now if that was your attempt of being funny, sarcastic, ironic or something... you aren't cut out for the shit.

 

[Jordan Diddy Buk]

Lol, damn you are funny.

Anyway my point about smaller guys fighting bigger guys is simple. If a fighter shows he outclasses everyone in his weight class and is looking for a challenge the natural step is for him to move up. It allows the fighter to showcase his talents against a fighter that has an inherent advantage. That is compelling to me. It is more excited than repeated fights against smaller guys and guys that dont stand a chance.

 

[Alaskanredman]

Lol, damn you are funny.

Anyway my point about smaller guys fighting bigger guys is simple. If a fighter shows he outclasses everyone in his weight class and is looking for a challenge the natural step is for him to move up. It allows the fighter to showcase his talents against a fighter that has an inherent advantage. That is compelling to me. It is more excited than repeated fights against smaller guys and guys that dont stand a chance.

Dude I'm not slow. Your reasoning is not complex. I highlighted that one sentence because it added nothing towards this argument.... It only made you look ridiculous.

The problem with what you are saying now is that neither Floyd or Manny have outclassed everyone in their weight division because they alternate the P4P #1 spot but they haven't fought each other. Both these guys have already moved up several times and Manny just fought a big bum. A fight that you also found compelling, but Margarito had one advantage and Manny had every other advantage. How is that compelling to you? I don't know because Margarito still didn't stand a chance. I understand that Martinez is a different case, but it seems that size advantage is only thing that makes a difference to you. Of course, I've told you this on several occasions so it really made no point to rehash this part again... Have fun.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Dude I'm not slow. Your reasoning is not complex. I highlighted that one sentence because it added nothing towards this argument.... It only made you look ridiculous.

The problem with what you are saying now is that neither Floyd or Manny have outclassed everyone in their weight division because they alternate the P4P #1 spot but they haven't fought each other. Both these guys have already moved up several times and Manny just fought a big bum. A fight that you also found compelling, but Margarito had one advantage and Manny had every other advantage. How is that compelling to you? I don't know because Margarito still didn't stand a chance. I understand that Martinez is a different case, but it seems that size advantage is only thing that makes a difference to you. Of course, I've told you this on several occasions so it really made no point to rehash this part again... Have fun.

I keep saying this but only Manny gets any props for moving up. Floyd did all him moving years ago and has topped out at 147. If he and Martinez can make a fight it'll almost have to be at a catchweight. Martinez is the middleweight champion and weighed almost 170lbs for the Williams fight. No way Floyd is fighting him anywhere near that and he'll have Martinez contractually obligated to fight closer to 150-154 and if Sergio doesn't make the weight, Floyd would walk away from the fight.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Middleweight is a thin division but you can't tell me some of those guys in the Super Six can 't make 160 to fight Sergio. Stop chasing Floyd and Manny and build up his own legacy.

 

[Jordan Diddy Buk]

Middleweight is a thin division but you can't tell me some of those guys in the Super Six can 't make 160 to fight Sergio. Stop chasing Floyd and Manny and build up his own legacy.

Everyone chases floyd and manny. It is where the money is at.

 

[Jordan Diddy Buk]

I keep saying this but only Manny gets any props for moving up. Floyd did all him moving years ago and has topped out at 147. If he and Martinez can make a fight it'll almost have to be at a catchweight. Martinez is the middleweight champion and weighed almost 170lbs for the Williams fight. No way Floyd is fighting him anywhere near that and he'll have Martinez contractually obligated to fight closer to 150-154 and if Sergio doesn't make the weight, Floyd would walk away from the fight.

Floyd did not have a problem with the weight advantage he had over jmm. He should not have one against sergio. Sergio already said he can do 154. Then there is no reason they should not fight. Pbf can fight that weight class. Pbf needs this fight to be made.

EDIT (fixed)

Damn texting while driving.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Everyone chases floyd and manny. It is where the money is at.

Chase it if it's a makeable fight, don't just do it to be doing it. I get chasing the best money fights, especially giving his age, but he should spend as much time trying to build his legacy and make himself a draw.

Floyd did have a proble with the weight advantage he had over jmm. He should have one against sergio. Sergio already said he can do 154. Then there is no reason they should not fight. Pbf can fight that weight class. Pbf needs this fight to be made.

Why should he give Sergio any advantage? He's the one who's selling ppvs, not Sergio. Same reason JMM took the fight even though he was going to be giving up at least 5-6 pounds, he wanted the payday. Why would Floyd jump through a single hoop to fight Sergio Martinez? Sergio, like Margarito to Pacquiao, will have to be the one giving all the concessions.
And there's no evidence that Floyd can fight at 154. He fought one fight over 147 and that was against an older DLH (though I can't see how Oscar wins that fight at any age, the style match up still would have been horrible for him).
Watching Martinez' fight with Pavlik, I'm really starting to think that his size would be the only advantage he would have. He's got great skill but he leaves his hands way too low. He just hasn't had anyone in the ring recently with the speed and accuracy to capitalize.

 

[Jordan Diddy Buk]

Chase it if it's a makeable fight, don't just do it to be doing it. I get chasing the best money fights, especially giving his age, but he should spend as much time trying to build his legacy and make himself a draw.



Why should he give Sergio any advantage? He's the one who's selling ppvs, not Sergio. Same reason JMM took the fight even though he was going to be giving up at least 5-6 pounds, he wanted the payday. Why would Floyd jump through a single hoop to fight Sergio Martinez? Sergio, like Margarito to Pacquiao, will have to be the one giving all the concessions.
And there's no evidence that Floyd can fight at 154. He fought one fight over 147 and that was against an older DLH (though I can't see how Oscar wins that fight at any age, the style match up still would have been horrible for him).
Watching Martinez' fight with Pavlik, I'm really starting to think that his size would be the only advantage he would have. He's got great skill but he leaves his hands way too low. He just hasn't had anyone in the ring recently with the speed and accuracy to capitalize.

Why should he give Sergio the advantage? Because PBF says he is the best. And if skillwise there is no competition then the weight shouldn't be an issue. Plus I am saying Sergio come down to 154. I mean it isn't one hoop that PBF would be jumping through. He would be doing something he is not accustom of doing and that is being in the role of the underdog. I mean if he can't get up for a fight against the fighter of the year in one weight class above him that is crazy. Plus I think 154 is where PBF needs to be at anyway for competition reasons.

 

[Jordan Diddy Buk]

I keep saying this but only Manny gets any props for moving up. Floyd did all him moving years ago and has topped out at 147. If he and Martinez can make a fight it'll almost have to be at a catchweight. Martinez is the middleweight champion and weighed almost 170lbs for the Williams fight. No way Floyd is fighting him anywhere near that and he'll have Martinez contractually obligated to fight closer to 150-154 and if Sergio doesn't make the weight, Floyd would walk away from the fight.

I laugh at how people try to make Antonio out as a bum now. Dude has held belts, fought and beat the best in his division at a time when PBF was there and refused to fight the them. Antonio had an epic fight with Clottey that raised both their stocks. I think in the fight Antonio threw or landed a record number of punches. I don't know if Antonio can be the same after that beating he got from Manny. Most fighters aren't. We will see.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Why should he give Sergio the advantage? Because PBF says he is the best. And if skillwise there is no competition then the weight shouldn't be an issue.

Who thinks there's no competition between the two skillwise? Sergio is one of the most skilled guys out there. Floyd gets the edge but this isn't Carlos Baldomir we're talking about.

Plus I am saying Sergio come down to 154. I mean it isn't one hoop that PBF would be jumping through. He would be doing something he is not accustom of doing and that is being in the role of the underdog. I mean if he can't get up for a fight against the fighter of the year in one weight class above him that is crazy. Plus I think 154 is where PBF needs to be at anyway for competition reasons.

Why should he put himself out if he's the attraction? That is jumping through a hoop and doing so unnecesarily. He would be doing Sergio a favor to take the fight. No one would look back on Floyd Mayweather's career and say "He didn't fight Sergio Martinez". As of right now, Floyd and Manny are helping other guys out by fighting them so they're going to get all the concessions. Only a fool gives away his advantages. I think Roach and them stay on some shit but I give them credit for playing the game better than anyone else. They take few to no chances but get all the credit.

Floyd at 154 for competition reasons? That's a new one. A bonafide welterweight should fight at jr middleweight for competition reasons. What ever happened to "Floyd should dominate his division". I remember that one. He's moved up several times, that's how he got to welterweight. He needed the DLH fight so he fought him at jr middleweight weighing in at 150 lbs. He doesn't need the Sergio Martinez fight so he's not conceding jack to him. Sergio should concentrate on getting some ppv buys and making guys come to him.

 

[merce77]

Chase it if it's a makeable fight, don't just do it to be doing it. I get chasing the best money fights, especially giving his age, but he should spend as much time trying to build his legacy and make himself a draw.



Why should he give Sergio any advantage? He's the one who's selling ppvs, not Sergio. Same reason JMM took the fight even though he was going to be giving up at least 5-6 pounds, he wanted the payday. Why would Floyd jump through a single hoop to fight Sergio Martinez? Sergio, like Margarito to Pacquiao, will have to be the one giving all the concessions.
And there's no evidence that Floyd can fight at 154. He fought one fight over 147 and that was against an older DLH (though I can't see how Oscar wins that fight at any age, the style match up still would have been horrible for him).
Watching Martinez' fight with Pavlik, I'm really starting to think that his size would be the only advantage he would have. He's got great skill but he leaves his hands way too low. He just hasn't had anyone in the ring recently with the speed and accuracy to capitalize.

Why should he give Sergio the advantage? Because PBF says he is the best. And if skillwise there is no competition then the weight shouldn't be an issue. Plus I am saying Sergio come down to 154. I mean it isn't one hoop that PBF would be jumping through. He would be doing something he is not accustom of doing and that is being in the role of the underdog. I mean if he can't get up for a fight against the fighter of the year in one weight class above him that is crazy. Plus I think 154 is where PBF needs to be at anyway for competition reasons.

I gotta go with Buk on this one, Mayweather hasn't proved anything in a LONG time, since before his "retirement". Coming back and beating a guy who was moving up 2 divisions and then beating a Mosley well past his prime meant absolutely nothing. Beating the current fighter of the year at the NEXT division above yours would mean something. Not making guys move up in weight or fighting old men. It's about time they dropped his ass down in the rankings. And he should actually be down to number 4 behind Marquez who's been dominating his division the past couple years. To me it's complete horseshit that Floyd can't fight at 154 - Mosley has done that and higher and you can't tell me that floyd looked as big if not bigger than shane when they fought. Floyd just won't take ANY risks in the ring whatsoever. It's why I'm pretty convinced that we'll never see him fight Manny or Sergio or any other fighter who isn't at a TOTAL disadvantage going into the ring against him. The all time greats all moved up and guys who started at weights smaller than him and were physically smaller. Hell Duran beat Barkley at 168 and Roberto started at 122. Now if you want to say that Floyd can't go up without putting himself at risk of actually losing (God forbid a "great" fighter would even contemplate taking a fight he could actually lose) - then say that, but to say that he's reached some kind of physical size peak at 147 is bullshit, plain and simple.
The truth is Sergio is fast, awkward, a southpaw, can take a punch and has one punch ko power. THAT is why PBF or Manny won't take a fight with dude, not some bullshit size advantage. Sergio can barely make 154 anymore so he'll be starching himself at an advanced age. Which should even out a couple of younger guys moving up a couple pounds. I mean damm could Manny and Floyd even have survived in the days when there WERE NO junior divisions - when you had to put on 10 or 12 pounds to move up to the next division - I seriously doubt it.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

I laugh at how people try to make Antonio out as a bum now. Dude has held belts, fought and beat the best in his division at a time when PBF was there and refused to fight the them. Antonio had an epic fight with Clottey that raised both their stocks. I think in the fight Antonio threw or landed a record number of punches. I don't know if Antonio can be the same after that beating he got from Manny. Most fighters aren't. We will see.

Margarito is a bum now. Pacquaio didn't beat him 3-4 yrs ago, he beat this year and he was a bum this year. The Clotttey fight was years ago. The one guy he fought that Mayweather refused to fight (or even acknowledge) was Paul Williams and Williams had to become his mandatory for that fight to happen. He hasn't been the same since then. He magically became Marvin Hagler after that, beat up Cintron again and Cotto, and got smashed by Shane Mosley. If Mayweather had stayed with Arum, he was set up to fight Cotto at 140 and then Margarito.
Let's not pretend that Margarito was ever a major star. He was a good fighter and a champion but he was never elite and since the Mosley fight, he's been a bum.

 

[Jordan Diddy Buk]

Who thinks there's no competition between the two skillwise? Sergio is one of the most skilled guys out there. Floyd gets the edge but this isn't Carlos Baldomir we're talking about.




Why should he put himself out if he's the attraction? That is jumping through a hoop and doing so unnecesarily. He would be doing Sergio a favor to take the fight. No one would look back on Floyd Mayweather's career and say "He didn't fight Sergio Martinez". As of right now, Floyd and Manny are helping other guys out by fighting them so they're going to get all the concessions. Only a fool gives away his advantages. I think Roach and them stay on some shit but I give them credit for playing the game better than anyone else. They take few to no chances but get all the credit.

Floyd at 154 for competition reasons? That's a new one. A bonafide welterweight should fight at jr middleweight for competition reasons. What ever happened to "Floyd should dominate his division". I remember that one. He's moved up several times, that's how he got to welterweight. He needed the DLH fight so he fought him at jr middleweight weighing in at 150 lbs. He doesn't need the Sergio Martinez fight so he's not conceding jack to him. Sergio should concentrate on getting some ppv buys and making guys come to him.

We don't know if people won't look back and say PBF ducked Sergio in the future. Sergio is just carving out his legacy right now. At this point PBF doesn't have any fights at 147 other than Manny. So why not go up and make a big fight. Seriously, if you don't think PBF should fight Sergio and we are sure he won't fight Manny. Who is left?

 

[merce77]

Who thinks there's no competition between the two skillwise? Sergio is one of the most skilled guys out there. Floyd gets the edge but this isn't Carlos Baldomir we're talking about.




Why should he put himself out if he's the attraction? That is jumping through a hoop and doing so unnecesarily. He would be doing Sergio a favor to take the fight. No one would look back on Floyd Mayweather's career and say "He didn't fight Sergio Martinez". As of right now, Floyd and Manny are helping other guys out by fighting them so they're going to get all the concessions. Only a fool gives away his advantages. I think Roach and them stay on some shit but I give them credit for playing the game better than anyone else. They take few to no chances but get all the credit.

Floyd at 154 for competition reasons? That's a new one. A bonafide welterweight should fight at jr middleweight for competition reasons. What ever happened to "Floyd should dominate his division". I remember that one. He's moved up several times, that's how he got to welterweight. He needed the DLH fight so he fought him at jr middleweight weighing in at 150 lbs. He doesn't need the Sergio Martinez fight so he's not conceding jack to him. Sergio should concentrate on getting some ppv buys and making guys come to him.

Dave your buggin, how many bonafide welterweights have moved up in history for competition reasons, pretty much all the great ones. Robinson, Benitez, Hearns, Leonard, Trinidad...the list goes on. Welterweight is BARREN right now, there is no one there worth fighting. Other than Manny, the only comp floyd has is to move up and fight a guy with a physical advantage, because none of the guys at 154 can match his skill. And Floyd didn't dominate his division, all the comp fought and eliminated each other and MOVED UP. Floyd tried to fight the last dude standing who was Mosley, instead of taking on all comers like champs do. I honestly don't care about seeing that dude fight if he's not fighting Manny or some other intriguing challenge like williams or Martinez. More than likely he'll wait for one of the other 140 pound guys to move on up and give more ammo to the people saying that Floyd is a coward. If he's not gonna fight Manny I wish he would just stay the fuck out of the ring to tell you the truth.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

I gotta go with Buk on this one, Mayweather hasn't proved anything in a LONG time, since before his "retirement". Coming back and beating a guy who was moving up 2 divisions and then beating a Mosley well past his prime meant absolutely nothing. Beating the current fighter of the year at the NEXT division above yours would mean something. Not making guys move up in weight or fighting old men. It's about time they dropped his ass down in the rankings. And he should actually be down to number 4 behind Marquez who's been dominating his division the past couple years. To me it's complete horseshit that Floyd can't fight at 154 - Mosley has done that and higher and you can't tell me that floyd looked as big if not bigger than shane when they fought. Floyd just won't take ANY risks in the ring whatsoever. It's why I'm pretty convinced that we'll never see him fight Manny or Sergio or any other fighter who isn't at a TOTAL disadvantage going into the ring against him. The all time greats all moved up and guys who started at weights smaller than him and were physically smaller. Hell Duran beat Barkley at 168 and Roberto started at 122. Now if you want to say that Floyd can't go up without putting himself at risk of actually losing (God forbid a "great" fighter would even contemplate taking a fight he could actually lose) - then say that, but to say that he's reached some kind of physical size peak at 147 is bullshit, plain and simple.
The truth is Sergio is fast, awkward, a southpaw, can take a punch and has one punch ko power. THAT is why PBF or Manny won't take a fight with dude, not some bullshit size advantage. Sergio can barely make 154 anymore so he'll be starching himself at an advanced age. Which should even out a couple of younger guys moving up a couple pounds. I mean damm could Manny and Floyd even have survived in the days when there WERE NO junior divisions - when you had to put on 10 or 12 pounds to move up to the next division - I seriously doubt it.

Floyd Mayweather has never fought a fight over 150lbs. Sergio Martinez is the middleweight champion. These things are not in dispute. For a fight to be made between the two, Martinez, as we both acknowledge would be hurting himself to make 154, would probably be forced to fight at a catchweight of 150. I railed against Pacquiao pulling that on Margarito and I wouldn't just overlook it because it's Floyd Mayweather and Sergio Martinez.
Starching Williams does not give him one punch ko power anymore than he had before. That's like saying Antonio Tarver had one punch ko power after flattening Roy Jones.

Wasn't Duran a kid when he started? How does that count? By the time he was an adult, he was a lightweight. Plus he grew into a natural middleweight. That's not what's happened to Mayweather. Let's not act like everyone grows to the same size.

Now, if they decided to take it at 154, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

Of course they could. Manny would be a lightweight and Floyd would be a welterweight. Neither would have as many titles as they claim now.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Dave your buggin, how many bonafide welterweights have moved up in history for competition reasons, pretty much all the great ones. Robinson, Benitez, Hearns, Leonard, Trinidad...the list goes on. Welterweight is BARREN right now, there is no one there worth fighting. Other than Manny, the only comp floyd has is to move up and fight a guy with a physical advantage, because none of the guys at 154 can match his skill. And Floyd didn't dominate his division, all the comp fought and eliminated each other and MOVED UP. Floyd tried to fight the last dude standing who was Mosley, instead of taking on all comers like champs do. I honestly don't care about seeing that dude fight if he's not fighting Manny or some other intriguing challenge like williams or Martinez. More than likely he'll wait for one of the other 140 pound guys to move on up and give more ammo to the people saying that Floyd is a coward. If he's not gonna fight Manny I wish he would just stay the fuck out of the ring to tell you the truth.

Leonard didn't start off as a (super) featherweight. Neither did Trinidad, Hearns, or Robinson. And in the case of Leonard, the one big move he made was to light heavy and he fought the equivalent of Carlos Baldomir and won

I'm not interested in seeing him fight anyone else either at this point. Either they'll be coming up or coming down.

Welter is barren but not because guys moved up but because they grew up and couldn't make weight. Saying they "moved up" sounds like they went chasing better comp and that's not what happened.


Expect a message from me, shortly merce.

 

[merce77]

I'm sorry I don't see the problem. The title Manny is holding now is Martinez title that he was stripped of just this year. How many fights have you seen at 160 or 147 or whatever where a guy weighs in as much as 3 or 4 pounds lighter than the limit. No one is saying Floyd has to weigh exactly 154 just in between 148 and 154. If Sergio comes in any heavier, penalize him. Isn't that what Floyd did with the Marquez fight. Forgot the agreement and weighed in at 146? I don't buy any of that bullshit. As for Floyd being the draw, he has been in the past but he's losing it. For one, if he fights a guy like say clottey or Berto, how many ppv buys do you think a farce like that would generate? It would struggle to break a million. People don't pay to see floyd fight, to the laymen he's a very boring fighter who sucks the drama out of fights by playing it safe - they pay for the hope of finally seeing him lose. To us hardcore guys, we know better, he's a master technician, but people don't pay to see that shit. They pay to see action and they've been spoiled as of late by these Pacquiao fights, mismatches or not, dude beats the brakes of these fighters, crowds love blood, it's been that way since forever.

Who is going to believe that Berto or Clottey or any of the young inexperienced guys coming up from 140 has a chance of beating Floyd. Williams is a challenge off size alone. Sergio is fighter of the year and made plenty of noise by giving fans the KO ofthe year and he's a good fighter - to fans, there is danger there for floyd, they'd pay. And of course Manny, that's the big one. But Floyd's biggest fight is coming up against the people of Las Vegas, and I think he's about to take his first official L. Dude has been pushing his luck for years, I hate to say it but the next time we see Floyd in a ring may be a wHILE from now, a year or two.

 

[merce77]

Leonard didn't start off as a (super) featherweight. Neither did Trinidad, Hearns, or Robinson. And in the case of Leonard, the one big move he made was to light heavy and he fought the equivalent of Carlos Baldomir and won

I'm not interested in seeing him fight anyone else either at this point. Either they'll be coming up or coming down.

Welter is barren but not because guys moved up but because they grew up and couldn't make weight. Saying they "moved up" sounds like they went chasing better comp and that's not what happened.


Expect a message from me, shortly merce.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

I'm sorry I don't see the problem. The title Manny is holding now is Martinez title that he was stripped of just this year. How many fights have you seen at 160 or 147 or whatever where a guy weighs in as much as 3 or 4 pounds lighter than the limit. No one is saying Floyd has to weigh exactly 154 just in between 148 and 154. If Sergio comes in any heavier, penalize him. Isn't that what Floyd did with the Marquez fight. Forgot the agreement and weighed in at 146? I don't buy any of that bullshit. As for Floyd being the draw, he has been in the past but he's losing it. For one, if he fights a guy like say clottey or Berto, how many ppv buys do you think a farce like that would generate? It would struggle to break a million. People don't pay to see floyd fight, to the laymen he's a very boring fighter who sucks the drama out of fights by playing it safe - they pay for the hope of finally seeing him lose. To us hardcore guys, we know better, he's a master technician, but people don't pay to see that shit. They pay to see action and they've been spoiled as of late by these Pacquiao fights, mismatches or not, dude beats the brakes of these fighters, crowds love blood, it's been that way since forever.

I use to think that but he drew a mil to see him fight Marquez and everyone knew that was a mismatch and JMM had very little crossover.
Clottey? Just bringing him up gets you another
I wouldn't pay to see him fight Berto but Andre is undefeated and a current welterweight champion. A mismatch? Yeah but Andre's a legit guy. Hell, he should have been trying harder to get that Manny fight.

Who is going to believe that Berto or Clottey or any of the young inexperienced guys has a chance of beating Floyd. Williams is a challenge off size alone. Sergio is fighter of the year and made plenty of noise by giving fans the KO ofthe year and he's a good fighter - to fans, there is danger there for floyd, they'd pay. And of course Manny, that's the big one.

Nah. Williams length and output might give him the first couple rounds but he'd get countered all day. I used to be a believer but Floyd is the exact type of fighter that give Paul trouble.

But Floyd's biggest fight is coming up against the people of Las Vegas, and I think he's about to take his first official L. Dude has been pushing his luck for years, I hate to say it but the next time we see Floyd in a ring may be a wHILE from now, a year or two.

Ugly but true.

 

[merce77]

I use to think that but he drew a mil to see him fight Marquez and everyone knew that was a mismatch and JMM had very little crossover.
Clottey? Just bringing him up gets you another
I wouldn't pay to see him fight Berto but Andre is undefeated and a current welterweight champion. A mismatch? Yeah but Andre's a legit guy. Hell, he should have been trying harder to get that Manny fight.




Nah. Williams length and output might give him the first couple rounds but he'd get countered all day. I used to be a believer but Floyd is the exact type of fighter that give Paul trouble.




Ugly but true.

Yeah, you know I was one of the first cats on here to say that. But we're talking about laymen here. A huge Paul Williams with a reach longer than Ali against lil Floyd, the spectacle alone would draw fans. But yeah, Floyd stays inside that reach all day and peppers him.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Yeah, you know I was one of the first cats on here to say that. But we're talking about laymen here. A huge Paul Williams with a reach longer than Ali against lil Floyd, the spectacle alone would draw fans. But yeah, Floyd stays inside that reach all day and peppers him.

I can see that. Shockingly, after just getting knocked ice cold, there are still cats swearing by dude. I'm not off his bandwagon but I'm in wait and see mode on how/if he comes back.

 

[merce77]

I can see that. Shockingly, after just getting knocked ice cold, there are still cats swearing by dude. I'm not off his bandwagon but I'm in wait and see mode on how/if he comes back.

Dude has heart, my guess is he'll try to come back strong, I'd take a Cintron rematch in my comeback fight if I were him, try to send a message. Shit the way Cintron was landing those straight rights on him before that - whatever the fuck that was - happened, I wouldn't be surprised is Kermit takes him. Paul's not in a good place right now. No 154 pounders want it, he's too light in the ass and fists for 160. Not good. The only option for him and Sergio right now is a 3rd fight, which unless Williams becomes a different fighter, it's very likely would end the same way, plus the psychological factor of fighting a guy who just brutally knocked you the fuck out in your last fight.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Dude has heart, my guess is he'll try to come back strong, I'd take a Cintron rematch in my comeback fight if I were him, try to send a message. Shit the way Cintron was landing those straight rights on him before that - whatever the fuck that was - happened, I wouldn't be surprised is Kermit takes him. Paul's not in a good place right now. No 154 pounders want it, he's too light in the ass and fists for 160. Not good.

That's how I see him too. I was thinking he should have gotten that Cintron rematch anyway. Both of them need that fight and two hungry, needy fighters can make for a good fight.

 

[Alaskanredman]

Why should he give Sergio any advantage? He's the one who's selling ppvs, not Sergio. Same reason JMM took the fight even though he was going to be giving up at least 5-6 pounds, he wanted the payday. Why would Floyd jump through a single hoop to fight Sergio Martinez? Sergio, like Margarito to Pacquiao, will have to be the one giving all the concessions.
And there's no evidence that Floyd can fight at 154. He fought one fight over 147 and that was against an older DLH (though I can't see how Oscar wins that fight at any age, the style match up still would have been horrible for him).
Watching Martinez' fight with Pavlik, I'm really starting to think that his size would be the only advantage he would have. He's got great skill but he leaves his hands way too low. He just hasn't had anyone in the ring recently with the speed and accuracy to capitalize.

I don't know why the obvious has to be stated on here but it has always been a fact that the bigger draw makes the big decisions. Manny makes demands for his fights just like I would expect any top guy. I can guarantee that if Floyd demanded a 150 catch weight for Martinez... the boxing world would not except it and they would shit on Floyd.

As far as fighting at 154. I think it is possible but could he fight well at that weight... I doubt it. I wonder if Mayweather were to still out class Martinez would he get credit or will people pull the same move they pull last time. You know complaining over and over again that he needed to fight Mosley because Mosley was the best welter and then completely shitting on Mosley afterwards.

 

[Alaskanredman]

I laugh at how people try to make Antonio out as a bum now. Dude has held belts, fought and beat the best in his division at a time when PBF was there and refused to fight the them. Antonio had an epic fight with Clottey that raised both their stocks. I think in the fight Antonio threw or landed a record number of punches. I don't know if Antonio can be the same after that beating he got from Manny. Most fighters aren't. We will see.

Buk... how long have I been telling you the same shit. Dude was always a bum. If I remember correctly Clottey broke his hand in that fight with Bummacheato and Clottey never seem to rise to the occasion in most of his fights, anyways.

 

[Alaskanredman]

http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=34254

By Nicolás Samuilov, notifight.com

WBC middleweight champion Sergio Martinez held a press conference in Argentina to discuss the status of his career and several topics of interest. Martinez disclosed that negotiations are still ongoing for a March fight with unbeaten WBO junior middleweight champion Sergei Dzinziruk. The two sides have not reached an ageement but Martinez believes the contest will end up happening on March 12 at Madison Square Garden.

He says Dzinziruk is a very good fighter, with a tailor made style. Martinez thinks that he can stop the unbeaten champion inside the distance.

"There was talk of Sebastian Zbik, Irish boxer Andy Lee and several other rivals, but a Dzinziruk deal is close. Dzinziruk is the classic German fighter. He is left handed and a bit taller than me, a good jab, and good counters. I think he's made for me. Based on my fighting style, defense and timing and keeping a good distance, I can calmly say that I will win, and even inside the distance," Martinez said.

 

[merce77]

I wouldn't mind seeing him fight that Russian dude that KO'd Daniel Jacobs, that white boy can fight.