Question: Does sexuality wax and wane, or is it stagnant?

[jaye]

I was watching The View a few weeks back while getting my locks retightened, which I have sense cut off. They were talking about men and women and how sexuality differs. The conversation was in reference to women and men who have heteronormative families, and then up and decide one day, "I'm gay" and I want out, or want the rules of our conventional marriage to change. They had a sexual therapist on the show that basically said that happens a lot, especially to women, for the following reasons:
1. Women's sexuality is like the moon. As you age, you desire different things. At one phase in your life, you might desire a man, at another, a women, and at another both or none.
2. Men are either gay or straight from the beginning. Due to societal pressures, some men might try to hide it until they can't take it anymore. Then they come out and want a change of lifestyle.

What do you all think?

My theory is that sexuality exists on a continuum. We prefer different genders in much the same way we prefer hair style, body type, eye color, lip size, etc. We are attracted to different things. I don't think anyone is 100% gay or 100% straight. I think some people are just much closer to one side then the other. For instance, if you say, "I love chocolate brothers." That doesn't mean you would never date a lighter skinned man. I know there is a difference in comparing skin color to gender, but is that because society makes it such a big deal? Is it really that different? hmmmm...

 

[dinka64]

I only can speak as the man I am I have never desired another man. Being a black man I believe that some of our most wretched ways are an assimilation of being in the presence of evil ( amerikkka). I am not sure but I don’t believe that my ancient African forefathers had much of a problem with homosexual tendencies with either men, or women, and if so it was addressed and dealt with in a corrective manner. The ways of Amerikkka have been very detrimental to the Black race from the time we were brought here. One thing I do know about the African people of old they promoted man and woman and the relationship between the two. For every African god there was a goddess. Women are softer and the very fabric of their being allows them to be closer to their girl friends (not that close) than men can or want to be with their closest male friend. One of my child hood friends had a son that was very soft and girl like at a young age. His mother always coddled him and did what most women do to their sons. Because my boy was out of the country most of the time I stepped in and played the daddy role most of the time. We had to spend extra time with him and consistently talked to him. not about sexuality but man boy things slowly he became more rugged and the girlish ways diminished. He is in his thirties now and has been happily married for ten years. He always dated girls and has always been alpha male, positively no homo. Some things are learned and depending on your environment those things can go either way.

 

[melonpecan]

There is someone's pov I would LOVE to hear on this .


I can't say that I have flip-flopped...I will say that a curiosity was always there as evidenced by my alleged stash of porn. I think for women either you know or you don't but like men you try to hide it...cept that now being gay is the in thing so it's a little reversed.

 

[followup]

I think people are born one way (homo, hetero, or confused)...and some try to force it to be different for whatever reason. I do not think there is a continuum.

I like men and I have since birth. I like masculine men. No supersensitive or effeminate me. I do not like touching another woman nor do I want a woman touching me.

 

[LoneStar29]

Every single last person is different and some prefer men, some prefer women and some prefer both and I feel that those desires come early on but some people push them aside for a longer period of time ... I do not believe that anyone just wakes up one day and is gay,straight, or bi ... those feelings have been there for a long time but didn't come out maybe due to not being comfortable until now

And I think people who feel as if no one is 100% straight are just trying to transfer their homosexual desires onto others ... just cuz you (not you OP but whoever) wants to fuck a man doesn't mean the next guy does as well ... its borderline insulting IMO

 

[WhenTheGoingGetsTtuff]

THings are always in flux. Nothing is set in stone.

 

[melonpecan]

There she is!


Wait.

THings are always in flux. Nothing is set in stone.

That's it?

 

[melonpecan]

I think people are born one way (homo, hetero, or confused)...and some try to force it to be different for whatever reason. I do not think there is a continuum.

I like men and I have since birth. I like masculine men. No supersensitive or effeminate me. I do not like touching another woman nor do I want a woman touching me.

And I think people who feel as if no one is 100% straight are just trying to transfer their homosexual desires onto others ... just cuz you (not you OP but whoever) wants to fuck a man doesn't mean the next guy does as well ... its borderline insulting IMO

Wow.

*
Flashbacks

 

[WhenTheGoingGetsTtuff]

lol sorry. I was speeding through. There's nothing else really to say that i haven't said in the other thread. People can say what they think, and if it's right for them then it's right for them. It's just a reality that sexuality is in flux. Especially for women, i also believe it is for males as well, just different. People can deny it but then it's always easy to say what is and isn't when you haven't experienced it.

I will always say until you've experienced it you can't say what you will or won't do. Like you've never been in a certain situation how can you say what you will feel?

 

[melonpecan]

^^^




That's what I was looking for! It begs the question though, why women can go through an 'experiment' phase where they have 'intimates' with other women and people dismiss it. But let a dude do it and it's outright gay. Hell a dude can't even experiment in that manner!


You say that sexuality is in flux, but perhaps just for women? Is the double standard that strong that it crosses our ability to feel good from getting our rocks off? Seriously, if a well known female went on youtube and said she was having a sexual identity crisis she would still be in movies and have endorsements.

If a dude did it we would hear about his successful book store in SoHo in twenty years.

 

[followup]

Every single last person is different and some prefer men, some prefer women and some prefer both and I feel that those desires come early on but some people push them aside for a longer period of time ... I do not believe that anyone just wakes up one day and is gay,straight, or bi ... those feelings have been there for a long time but didn't come out maybe due to not being comfortable until now

And I think people who feel as if no one is 100% straight are just trying to transfer their homosexual desires onto others ... just cuz you (not you OP but whoever) wants to fuck a man doesn't mean the next guy does as well ... its borderline insulting IMO

Some people are not comfortable with who they are because of society, so they try to project THEIR norm (which is the minority) onto others. Just because you like both sexes, does not mean every does...not even a tiny little bit.

 

[Rudey]

I think people are born one way (homo, hetero, or confused)...and some try to force it to be different for whatever reason. I do not think there is a continuum.

I like men and I have since birth. I like masculine men. No supersensitive or effeminate me. I do not like touching another woman nor do I want a woman touching me.

 

[melonpecan]

^^^
Wow

 

[LoneStar29]

I know lots of girls that are not attracted to other women sexually at all

 

[melonpecan]

I know lots of girls that are not attracted to other women sexually at all

I use to be like that

 

[sean69]

I use to be like that

 

[onyxfemme]

I've known that I like both sexually very early in my life....But I have also known very early that I can fuck both but only romantically love one gender.

 

[Mo-Better]

Excuse me but the attraction of a flesh tone ain't even in the same ballpark as an attraction to someone of the same sex. The word "difference" doesn't even come close to the describing those to scenarios.

We tend look at others differently as we age. We all change and mellow out as we age. But your sexual preference doesn't just happen to change overnight. You were either bi-curious or wishy-washy to begin with.

 

[bigreg2007]

Great thread ladies and gents.

I think you can be born with whichever sexual preference just as easily as one is born with male and female genitalia...that said...I believe TODAY more of the gay/bisexual population is made up of those who are confused and who want to be down.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Every single last person is different and some prefer men, some prefer women and some prefer both and I feel that those desires come early on but some people push them aside for a longer period of time ... I do not believe that anyone just wakes up one day and is gay,straight, or bi ... those feelings have been there for a long time but didn't come out maybe due to not being comfortable until now

And I think people who feel as if no one is 100% straight are just trying to transfer their homosexual desires onto others ... just cuz you (not you OP but whoever) wants to fuck a man doesn't mean the next guy does as well ... its borderline insulting IMO

Riding with Star on this one.
I'm not buying the "in flux" or continuum theory. I've had relationships with women that were interested in women too and women that had no kind of interest in that way, my wife being one. The Wife's not homophobic, she just has no interest in females (which completely fucks up my threesome fantasy with her and...telling too much). Another former flame was the same.
The idea that no one is 100% straight is pure projection. Some people are flexible like that (far more than will admit it) but there are many people that aren't.

 

[jaye]

I am learning that you have to be very specific and leave no room for misinterpretation on this board...

I totally see how the 100% sounds, especially after reading comments. I would never assume that everyone is a little bit gay.

What I was trying to say with the 100% statement, is that it isn't just black and white. I don't think that sexuality is either gay, straight, bi. What I think when I say continuum is that everyone's sexual preference is different. Men and women desire a certain sex/gender in varying degrees. So say if you are all the way to the right, then you are very much straight. If you are all the way to the left, then you are very much gay. But there is an entire line in the middle that people fall on. I was just trying to say that it isn't black and white.

I wish I could draw in this forum, but just picture a line. I fall on the very far right. I think women are beautiful and I can be turned on by seeing a women engaging in a sexual act, but I don't desire to be with women. I love everything about men, from the dirty socks and draws to the pectoral muscles and deep voice. So that puts me on the far right, but I would say that I am not completely to the right because of the aforementioned.

At the same time, there are women who are disgusted to see a women touching herself or even naked, they are on the super far right. Same goes for men. Some men see another man naked and then there are other men who are turned on by watching a man touch himself or watching a man have sex with a woman. Of course they would never admit that, but some men look at the dick just as much as the vagina. So, the former would fall on the very far right, the latter would fall somewhere on the right depending on how much that dick actually turns him on.

Get it?

 

[WhenTheGoingGetsTtuff]

Sexuality isn't as hard set in stone as the rigid minded would like you to believe.

It's fluid. It can go to and fro, and up and down and around and around. It's not something i want. It's just how it is. It's a scale, and that weight on that scale can be moved at any given time under any circumstance up to that persons choosing.

 

[followup]

Sexuality isn't as hard set in stone as the rigid minded would like you to believe.

It's fluid. It can go to and fro, and up and down and around and around. It's not something i want. It's just how it is. It's a scale, and that weight on that scale can be moved at any given time under any circumstance up to that persons choosing.

maybe for you, but does not souond like the same is true for the majority of folks in this thread... anyway, enjoy

 

[LeroyDibiase]

I don't believe in absolutes.

I believe in the Kinsey Scale (look it up).

 

[Izayoi]

I don't believe in absolutes.

I believe in the Kinsey Scale (look it up).

I've talked that thing to death.

 

[LeroyDibiase]

I've talked that thing to death.

That's when you caught my eye. *sniff*

 

[Izayoi]

That's when you caught my eye. *sniff*

You remember that?! Awww, Cicely is touched.

 

[sean69]

Kinsey's sex research went beyond theory and interview to include observation of and participation in sexual activity, including homosexual activity, with co-workers and others. He justified this as being necessary to gain the confidence of his research subjects; Jones and Dalrymple, amongst others, have speculated that he was driven by his own sexual needs, and what those needs might have been. He encouraged his staff to do likewise, and engage in a wide range of sexual activity, to the extent they felt comfortable; he argued that this would help his interviewers understand the participant responses. Kinsey filmed sexual acts which included co-workers in the attic of his home as part of his research.

Kinsey wrote about pre-adolescent orgasms using data in tables 30 to 34 of the male volume, which report observations of orgasms in over three-hundred children between the ages of five months and fourteen years.[16] This information was said to have come from adults' childhood memories, or from parent or teacher observation.[17] Kinsey said he also interviewed nine men who had sexual experiences with children, and who told him about the children's responses and reactions. Little attention was paid to this part of Kinsey's research at the time, but where Kinsey had gained this information began to be questioned nearly 40 years later.[18] It was later revealed that Kinsey used data from a single paedophile and presented it as being from various sources.

Jones wrote that Kinsey's sexual activity influenced his work, that he over-represented prisoners and prostitutes, classified some single people as "married", and that he included a disproportionate number of homosexual men, particularly from Indiana, in his sample, which may have distorted his studies. It has also been pointed out he omitted African Americans in his research.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Kinsey#Controversial_aspects_of_his_work
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/kinsey/peopleevents/e_institute.html

 

[Izayoi]

Kinsey's sex research went beyond theory and interview to include observation of and participation in sexual activity, including homosexual activity, with co-workers and others. He justified this as being necessary to gain the confidence of his research subjects; Jones and Dalrymple, amongst others, have speculated that he was driven by his own sexual needs, and what those needs might have been. He encouraged his staff to do likewise, and engage in a wide range of sexual activity, to the extent they felt comfortable; he argued that this would help his interviewers understand the participant responses. Kinsey filmed sexual acts which included co-workers in the attic of his home as part of his research.

Kinsey wrote about pre-adolescent orgasms using data in tables 30 to 34 of the male volume, which report observations of orgasms in over three-hundred children between the ages of five months and fourteen years.[16] This information was said to have come from adults' childhood memories, or from parent or teacher observation.[17] Kinsey said he also interviewed nine men who had sexual experiences with children, and who told him about the children's responses and reactions. Little attention was paid to this part of Kinsey's research at the time, but where Kinsey had gained this information began to be questioned nearly 40 years later.[18] It was later revealed that Kinsey used data from a single paedophile and presented it as being from various sources.

Jones wrote that Kinsey's sexual activity influenced his work, that he over-represented prisoners and prostitutes, classified some single people as "married", and that he included a disproportionate number of homosexual men, particularly from Indiana, in his sample, which may have distorted his studies. It has also been pointed out he omitted African Americans in his research.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Kinsey#Controversial_aspects_of_his_work
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/kinsey/peopleevents/e_institute.html

Mmmm hmmm Kinsey was a freak, racist (like most social scientists) bi-sexual and that did cause him to vastly skew his methods (no institutional review boards back then) and "results", BUT I think his scale that proposes some people are strictly hetero, some strictly homo, and some somewhere in between still has credence. His survey research was updated and expanded on later on by a more reputable and less freak ass researcher who expanded the constructs to include things like fantasy and the desire to live with, love, etc the opposite or same gender. That made it a bit more three dimensional. The later Laumann study (I think in the 90's?) did not support Kinsey's assertions that most people were in between on his scale (more bi- that was just Kinsey projecting his gayness), but that did have some interesting results mainly that even if a person had sex with the same gender at some point in life he/she was still most likely to report their sexual orientation as heterosexual.

 

[LeroyDibiase]

The theory Sean, the theory. I believe that sexuality isn't black or white, especially with women. This board should tell you that. Real life should tell you that. Women are all over the sexuality map.

Of course I remember, Cicely . I'm not old, my memory is good.

 

[WhenTheGoingGetsTtuff]

Iza that's all i'm saying as well. Glad to see someone else gets it.

 

[sean69]

Mmmm hmmm Kinsey was a freak, racist (like most social scientists) bi-sexual and that did cause him to vastly skew his methods (no institutional review boards back then) and "results", BUT I think his scale that proposes some people are strictly hetero, some strictly homo, and some somewhere in between still has credence. His survey research was updated and expanded on later on by a more reputable and less freak ass researcher who expanded the constructs to include things like fantasy and the desire to live with, love, etc the opposite or same gender. That made it a bit more three dimensional. The later Laumann study (I think in the 90's?) did not support Kinsey's assertions that most people were in between on his scale (more bi- that was just Kinsey projecting his gayness), but that did have some interesting results mainly that even if a person had sex with the same gender at some point in life he/she was still most likely to report their sexual orientation as heterosexual.

He sure was on some wild freak shit . His personal life, who cares. But once that starts biasing the science then it's just art. lol.
@ the red; self-report of one's sexual orientation, pretty much one's core identity, would be seriously confounded, especially, in this case. I don't find it remarkable.

I no fan of absolutes and i've always understood sexual identity as a composite overlap of one's psychological and physiological sexual identity and subsequently how they inoculate each other. And when you have the possibility of hormones triggering involuntary behavior, and society doing what it does best, it can get real foggy, imo. I can see the reason in the "continuum model" but from what i've learned from physics, trying to represent a continuum model with a a discrete scale or metric system can create all kinds of confusion. Sorta like Zeno's "Arrow of Flight" Paradox.

The theory Sean, the theory. I believe that sexuality isn't black or white, especially with women. This board should tell you that. Real life should tell you that. Women are all over the sexuality map.

I was just trying to point out that maybe his results were strongly biased? Like, on some serious affirmation bias shit. Not a good look for any scientific theory. For example; I bet you'd be hard pressed to offer a reasonably objective argument in support of your women vs men sexuality map idea. And no, i'm not gonna use SOL as a hypothetical model.

 

[Izayoi]

He sure was on some wild freak shit . His personal life, who cares. But once that starts biasing the science then it's just art. lol.
@ the red; self-report of one's sexual orientation, pretty much one's core identity, would be seriously confounded, especially, in this case. I don't find it remarkable.

I no fan of absolutes and i've always understood sexual identity as a composite overlap of one's psychological and physiological sexual identity and subsequently how they inoculate each other. And when you have the possibility of hormones triggering involuntary behavior, and society doing what it does best, it can get real foggy, imo. I can see the reason in the "continuum model" but from what i've learned from physics, trying to represent a continuum model with a a discrete scale or metric system can create all kinds of confusion. Sorta like Zeno's "Arrow of Flight" Paradox.

You're so smart. Maybe Kinsey should have used his freak art to construct a better model. Definitely some bias there. There's a frightening documentary about him.

Self report is always suspect. Social science methodologies are often messy and skewed though in general sorta like Kinsey.

 

[LeroyDibiase]

I was just trying to point out that maybe his results were strongly biased? Like, on some serious affirmation bias shit. Not a BBgood look for any scientific theory. For example; I bet you'd be hard pressed to offer a reasonably objective argument in support of your women vs men sexuality map idea. And no, i'm not gonna use SOL as a hypothetical model.

But I didn't care about the results. I'm talking about the theory that humans are exclusively hetero or homo sexual and the scale of 1-6. His results was on some other shit, but the scaaaaale.

 

[sean69]

But I didn't care about the results. I'm talking about the theory that humans are exclusively hetero or homo sexual and the scale of 1-6. His results was on some other shit, but the scaaaaale.

Wasn't the scale based on the results? But I get what you mean...