Pavlik-Martinez, Bute-Miranda-good fights

[Upgrade Dave]

I'm not a fan of Edison Miranda but if he continues on with Joe Goosen, he should help his career tremendously. Yeah, he got popped by Bute but Bute is a good fighter and he got him with a nice uppercut. Goosen's added some new dimensions to Miranda and that's a good thing.
Bute is really and Bernard Hopkins should let the thought of fighting him go and retire before that boy knocks him out. Now Bute and HBO can just eat off the plate Showtime's Super Six tourney has set up.

I didn't think Pavlik would beat Martinez and I was glad to be right, though there were a couple nervous moments. But he didn't have much choice, it was either Martinez or Paul Williams and Williams would have outworked him and cut him up too. Now Williams has to beat Kermit Cintron and the biggest payday of his life will be waiting for him in a rematch with Martinez except now it will be for the middleweight title.

The one thing that pissed me off was the 11 pound weight advantage Pavlik had. The dude rehydrated 20 pounds in 24 hours. That's bullshit. Make these dudes fight int their natural weight so we stop getting fighters killing themselves to make artificially low weights.

 

[TJervey]

I'm not a fan of Edison Miranda but if he continues on with Joe Goosen, he should help his career tremendously. Yeah, he got popped by Bute but Bute is a good fighter and he got him with a nice uppercut. Goosen's added some new dimensions to Miranda and that's a good thing.
Bute is really and Bernard Hopkins should let the thought of fighting him go and retire before that boy knocks him out. Now Bute and HBO can just eat off the plate Showtime's Super Six tourney has set up.

I didn't think Pavlik would beat Martinez and I was glad to be right, though there were a couple nervous moments. But he didn't have much choice, it was either Martinez or Paul Williams and Williams would have outworked him and cut him up too. Now Williams has to beat Kermit Cintron and the biggest payday of his life will be waiting for him in a rematch with Martinez except now it will be for the middleweight title.

The one thing that pissed me off was the 11 pound weight advantage Pavlik had. The dude rehydrated 20 pounds in 24 hours. That's bullshit. Make these dudes fight int their natural weight so we stop getting fighters killing themselves to make artificially low weights.

I totally agree on the weight issue. It's difficult to find a solution but I believe there should be a cap on the 'rehydration' weight by fight time. Pavlik is definitely at least a Super Middleweight but I also believe that the weight loss/gain worked against him more than for him. While I believe he is at the crossroads point as an elite fighter, I believe if there ever was a time to change trainers and maybe management, now is the time. I definitely WOULD NOT have taken this fight, primarily because of the problem Pavlik seems to have with active movers...I still would have fought PW, as it would have definitely garnered a much bigger payday. If not, there were much less risk type fighters to fight ON HBO, I believe this is managements fought as well.

As far as Miranda goes, he definitely can benefit from his relationship with Goosen, I just believe a lot of his issues are mental though. While there were some definite technical improvements, he lost more to showboating and lack of focus as a true professional like Bute found the opening and struck like a cobra. He is definitely someone to reckon with, and I believe he is 1,1a at Super Middleweight. I wouldn't pick against him and he continues to improve and sit down on his punches much better.

If I'm Martinez, I'd milk a fight or two out of my championship before taking on Pavlik or Williams, and I wouldn't let Pavlik work me into that catch weight for the Middleweight title BS he is probably going to try to pull...

Overall Good fights, actually disappointed with the Bute Miranda fight as I though Miranda clowned too much.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Miranda did slip when it came to be disciplined just before he got knocked out so hopefully he learns from it. He could use some more soft touches as he adjusts under Goosen.

The answer is having the weigh ins the day of the fight. They would still dehydrate/rehydrate but that would end 20 pound swings.

I definitely thought it hurt Kelly more than help. While he was noticeably bigger and didn't seemed threatened by Martinez' power, he already struggles with active fighters and now he would have to deal with struggling conditioning that affects all fighters when they change their bodies so rapidly. He was mentally out of the fight by the 10th round and his cornerman kept telling him to "not say that", that's a bad sign. At that point, I thought Martinez might stop him. Not knock him out but get him on the ropes and unload until the ref stepped in. Sergio took his heart by winning the 9th so cleanly after the 7th rd. knockdown.

 

[Alaskanredman]

Miranda looked good the first round and when he got touch in the 2nd round he threw all that shit out the window. Miranda is going to be a gate keeper and that's it. The nigga has too many L's and is still fighting in a weight class that is loaded with better fighters than him.

B-hop isn't B-hop anymore and the fight with Roy was an embarrassment to the sport. I don't want to completely shit on the nigga, but he has only excelled recently against overrated, stiff fighters. The one thing I don't want to see is the nigga getting hurt so late in his career, because he may not be able to recover.

P Wills wanted to be the nigga to get the easy win over Pavlik, but he will have to dig deep and deal with Martinez again. I don't think he will win. I didn't have him winning the first fight but there were so many close rounds that I won't complain. The thing is that Martinez gave away some rounds that would have made the difference. I think Martinez will get his conditioning to a point were there won't be any issues.

I think the weight-in should go back to the morning of the fight. Fighters will be less willing to kill themselves trying to make these artificial weights. I know Kelly thought about blaming his performance on struggling to make weight, then he thought about what would be waiting for him at super middle and decide to avoid the weight issue with a generic response.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

I doubt Miranda can ever be elite but he can be better than he has been.

Super middlweight is looking to be the new hot division along side jr. welterweight. Miranda has moved up and Pavlik should, giving it a lot of depth.

 

[Alaskanredman]

I doubt Miranda can ever be elite but he can be better than he has been.

Super middlweight is looking to be the new hot division along side jr. welterweight. Miranda has moved up and Pavlik should, giving it a lot of depth.

If Miranda gets more disciplined, I can see him slipping up and getting an upset KO on someone but that's about it. The problem is the nigga is feeling himself too much cause he has power and a lot of these cats get caught up in that ego shit when they got that power.

 

[TJervey]

Miranda did slip when it came to be disciplined just before he got knocked out so hopefully he learns from it. He could use some more soft touches as he adjusts under Goosen.

The answer is having the weigh ins the day of the fight. They would still dehydrate/rehydrate but that would end 20 pound swings.

I definitely thought it hurt Kelly more than help. While he was noticeably bigger and didn't seemed threatened by Martinez' power, he already struggles with active fighters and now he would have to deal with struggling conditioning that affects all fighters when they change their bodies so rapidly. He was mentally out of the fight by the 10th round and his cornerman kept telling him to "not say that", that's a bad sign. At that point, I thought Martinez might stop him. Not knock him out but get him on the ropes and unload until the ref stepped in. Sergio took his heart by winning the 9th so cleanly after the 7th rd. knockdown.

I believe the reason they changed the day of fight weigh ins was for health concerns. Either way, this stuff with Fighters fighting 2 weight classes below their natural weight is foolish. Also, if a fighter has to harm himself to make weight the day of the fight...then obviously he shouldn't be fighting at that weight.

I believe that 7th round knockdown, while it was caused by a punch, also had a lot of help from Martinez being accidentally tripped. Pavlik thought Martinez would tire or be intimidated by the size difference and knockdown, but it seemed to make him stronger! Also, I think it's foolish for fighters to base the danger of fighting the other guy solely on whether or not they can 'hurt' them...those slashing, speed type of punches do as much or more damage, primarily because they accumulate over time and the blood loss will sap energy too. Anyway, good fight, I don't know how much Pavlik can adjust his style, but he may need to switch trainers.

 

[TJervey]

Pavlik is too one dimensional to really have a huge impact at Super Middleweight. When you really think about it, his major wins have been against Jermain Taylor. He's not beaten anyone else on the elite level and he has look bad in his losses. The only Super Middleweights I see him with a real shot at beating is someone like a Froch or a Kessler to a lesser degree, because they are there to hit and Kelly can take a punch so he is not in any real danger of a one punch type of knockout himself. The only issue with that is, I believe after this tournament, the belts will be held by Boxer/Puncher Types (Ward/Dirrell/Bute) which give Pavlik fits. I believe he has a few fights left but his window as an elite fighter may be closing. He may be a high profile name gatekeeper, name on my resume type Dude in the next couple of years, especially if he stays with Loew as his trainer.

 

[Alaskanredman]

Pavlik is too one dimensional to really have a huge impact at Super Middleweight. When you really think about it, his major wins have been against Jermain Taylor. He's not beaten anyone else on the elite level and he has look bad in his losses. The only Super Middleweights I see him with a real shot at beating is someone like a Froch or a Kessler to a lesser degree, because they are there to hit and Kelly can take a punch so he is not in any real danger of a one punch type of knockout himself. The only issue with that is, I believe after this tournament, the belts will be held by Boxer/Puncher Types (Ward/Dirrell/Bute) which give Pavlik fits. I believe he has a few fights left but his window as an elite fighter may be closing. He may be a high profile name gatekeeper, name on my resume type Dude in the next couple of years, especially if he stays with Loew as his trainer.

At this point does having Jermaine Taylor on your resume mean anything? That is Kelly's only claim to fame.... and this motherfucker has gotten too much mileage out of the shit. Granted he has been fighting in a dead division but I can't think of any fighter that has gotten so much hype for so little work. I mean damn before Pavlik got Taylor... Taylor was looking like shit in his fights but a least Taylor had B-Hop.

 

[Jordan Diddy Buk]

I don't have a problem with the weight gain or cap. Kelly made weight at the weigh in. What is wrong is when they don't make weight and still add a boat load of pounds.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

I don't think Kelly can make much impact at super middleweight but he's a name and can add depth.

C/sing Alaska saying he's gotten the most run out of doing so little.