Palestinian Meltdown

QueEx

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<font size="5"><center>Hamas wakes up to grim reality</font size></center>


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By Annette Young
In Jerusalem
Sun 17 Jun 2007

"GAZA is becoming the Mogadishu of the Mediterranean," said one Palestinian official who refused to be named. "People thrown off the rooftops of 10-storey buildings, Palestinians shooting other Palestinians at point blank, others shot in front of their families. So Hamas is in control but do they really think people won't forget what has happened given our culture of pay-back and revenge?"

Yesterday, as locals awoke to the reality of a Hamas-controlled Gaza, people were beginning to count the cost of last week's fighting. Some shops began opening, university students returned to classes and people nervously left their homes for the first time in five days.

With Israel having closed the Erez and Karni border crossings, and Egypt having done the same with the Rafah crossing, Gaza is effectively sealed off from the rest of the world, with its 1.5 million residents having no choice in the past week but to stay in their homes as gun battles raged on the streets outside.

"I still haven't yet been outside my building in the last week. None of my family has," said Professor Naji Shurab, a lecturer in political science at Al Azhar University. "All we did is sit in front of the television trying to work out what was going on as we heard gunfire outside.

"While Hamas has the ability to keep the gangs in control, that is not the problem. It's whether they will be able to ensure the hospitals have enough supplies, people have food and that salaries are being paid.

"And are they going to talk to the Israelis about reopening the border crossings to get aid in and also ensure that water and electricity is still supplied to Gaza?"

Yesterday, Hamas officials called on Palestinians to bring an end to the looting of Fatah military bases and homes belonging to Fatah officials.

In a scene which one bystander likened to looting in Baghdad after the fall of Saddam Hussein, hundreds of people swarmed through the unoccupied villa of former Fatah security chief, Mohammed Dahlan (now based in the West Bank), after his neighbourhood fell to Hamas, stripping everything, including windows, doors and flower pots.

"The battle is over. Hamas is in control of the streets but the main issue for Palestinians is to push both sides to understand that the only way to achieve victory is through dialogue and not with violence," said Ahmad Shawa, the Gaza co-ordinator for the Palestinian NGO Network. "But with the border crossings closed - which are our lifeline - we are facing a shortage of food and medicine and the situation is becoming more critical by the day."

A Victory for the Islamist Movement
It was a resounding military achievement for the Islamist movement which, although numerically smaller in number than Fatah forces, overturned its opponents within a matter of days. Awaiting word from President Mahmoud Abbas whether to fire back, Fatah soldiers, despite support from the United States, crumbled in the face of the determined Hamas fighters who, having taken over key Fatah bases such as the Preventative Security Forces headquarters, would kneel down, with their foreheads touching the ground, and pray.

As Khaled Abu Toameh, the Palestinian Affairs editor for the Jerusalem Post, wrote: "Fatah lost the battle for the Gaza Strip because it lost the confidence and support of many Palestinians a long time ago... The decline of Fatah actually began with the day Yasser Arafat died in November 2004."

Despite declaring his determination to bring an end to corruption and lawlessness when he came president in January 2005, Abbas did anything but. Instead, Toameh argues, the Palestinian president surrounded himself with symbols of corruption and former Arafat cronies, promoted notorious warlords and, for the first time, the number of Palestinians killed in internal fighting was higher than those killed by Israel.

It's no surprise, says Toameh, that more and more Palestinians, especially those living in poverty-stricken Gaza, began to believe "Islam is the solution" and turned to Hamas.

Following their victory in the January 2006 elections, Hamas viewed the subsequent international aid boycott as part of a Western conspiracy to remove it from power.

When the United States gave nearly £30m to train the Fatah-affiliated presidential guard, Hamas became furious since it had been battling with Fatah to gain control of its bloated security forces after its election victory.

U.S. Concerned - Al Qaeda to Gaza?
The Hamas victory in Gaza is a major concern for Washington as it also watches al-Qaeda-inspired Fatah al-Islam fighters battle Lebanese troops in Nahr al-Barad refugee camp near Tripoli for the fourth week in a row.

One leading expert has raised the prospect of the West having to contend with militants inspired or even linked to bin Laden having the ascendency in Gaza.

Jonathan Alterman, of the Centre for Strategic and International Studies, said: "One of the things we haven't seen yet in the Palestinian community is the rise of al-Qaeda or Qaeda-like groups. We could well have that in Gaza, not in three years' time, but in one year's time."

Yossi Mekelburg, a Middle East analyst at the Chatham House think-tank in London, said: "We said that Arafat was not a partner and we got Hamas. We said that Hamas is not a partner and we might get al-Qaeda - we already see signs of this."

Both events are part of a worrying global trend whereby groups signing on to the global Jihad movement are seizing power - or attempting to - said Dr Boaz Ganor, the executive director of the International Policy Institute for Counter Terrorism, based in Israel.

In the past, Hamas has been careful to distance itself from al-Qaeda but, after signing the Mecca agreement to join Fatah in an unity government last February, it came under fierce criticism from al-Qaeda supporters who claimed Hamas was departing from its Islamist principles by accepting such an agreement.

"Within weeks, we saw Hamas officials starting to declare not only that they wanted to 'free Palestine', but also to promote global Jihad with its ultimate aim of establishing a worldwide Islamic republic ruled by Sharia law," Ganor said.

The Iranian Connection
While Syria has played a major role in offering support to Hamas, it is Iran - with its supply of weapons and offers of training to Hamas and other Palestinian militant groups in Gaza and the West Bank - that is the mastermind behind the military rise of these groups. "Just like Hezbollah in southern Lebanon, Israel will now have Iran-by-proxy ruling Gaza," said Ganor.

"Yes, the global Jihad movement may be Sunni-based and Iran is a Shia regime but what people need to realise is that there is far more in common between those two elements than people think.

"We are witnessing a third world war between global Jihadists and those against them. It's not just a case of Muslim versus the infidel but Islamic extremists against those who don't accept their view, including moderate Muslims."

For Israel, the key issue will be the sealing off of tunnels dug underneath the Gaza-Egyptian border which have been used to smuggle weapons including longer-range rockets.

Israel is looking towards Egypt to take pro-active measures and seal off the tunnels. The Israelis fear that the crudely made Qassams, which have a limited range, are being replaced with much longer-range rockets whose reach could extend well into Israel.

International Solution?
But hopes for an international force based along the Gaza-Egypt border were dashed late last week when the Organisation of Islamic Conference, the world's biggest grouping of Islamic nations, opposed the idea.

"What is needed is not external forces. It needs a better understanding between internal forces," said the OIC secretary-general Ekmeleddin Ihsanoglu. "I do think that there is a need for a strong leadership on behalf of all political leaders and the situation cannot be allowed to further deteriorate."

Hamas immediately rejected the idea. "The movement would regard those forces as occupation forces no different to the Israeli occupation, regardless of their nationality," Hamas official Sami Abu Zuhri said.

But an international force will be on the agenda for Tuesday's meeting between Israel's Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and US President George Bush as the two leaders discuss how to ensure violence does not spill over to the West Bank.

In order to bolster a weakened Abbas, Washington will put pressure on Israel to release tax revenues that have been frozen since Hamas came to power in March last year and to begin making serious concessions in the West Bank, including the removal of road blocks and lifting of restrictions. Israel last night said would allow humanitarian aid into the area.

Fatah Promises Reprisals
Back on the West Bank, Fatah militants torched Hamas offices and warned of more reprisals if comrades were harmed in Gaza.

Now the Palestinian territories and its four million residents are well and truly divided into two distinct regions which are separated by 30 miles of Israel. Palestinians are now referring to it as a three-state solution.

And in Gaza, Hamas will need to deal with the reality of governing an area where some 65% of people live below the poverty line. Its economy, already shattered by the last intifada, has been devastated by the international aid boycott which came into effect after Hamas, which still refuses to renounce violence or to recognise Israel's right to exist, came to power in early 2006.

With the rise in kidnappings of foreigners along with worsening violence, most international aid organisations no longer operate in Gaza, which also gets its water and electricity from Israel and Egypt.

Palestinians in Gaza say they are facing shortages of basic food and medical supplies.

"Hamas will find it difficult to translate their military victory into a political achievement given the way they imposed their power on to Gaza," said Mouin Rabbani, a senior analyst with the International Crisis Group.

http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=946642007
 
<a href="/blog/coffeehouse/2007/jun/15/hamas_wins_thanks_to_us" title="HAMAS Wins! Thanks to Us">HAMAS Wins! Thanks to Us</a></h2>
<div class="picture"><a href="/user/mjrosenberg" title="View user profile."><img src="http://www.tpmcafe.com/files/pictures/picture-13970.jpg" alt="mjrosenberg's picture" title="mjrosenberg's picture"></a></div> <div class="byline">By <a href="/user/13970/recent">M.J. Rosenberg</a> | <a href="/user/mjrosenberg">bio</a></div>
<div class="content">
<p>There is, no doubt, a whole lot of celebrating going on. For those more afraid of negotiations than of Hamas, Islamic Jihad, or any of that violent crew, a collapsing Palestinian Authority with Gaza in absolute chaos with Mahmoud Abbas weakened almost to irrelevancy is a dream come true.</p>

<p>Gaza has fallen to Hamas. Abu Mazen's Fatah is on the run. Unless a United Nations force (like UNIFIL) steps in, a sliver of territory with a population of 1.4 million, a short drive from Tel Aviv will become a dagger aimed at Israel's heart and perhaps even an Al Qaeda staging ground. A humanitarian crisis of horrific proportions is a certainty.</p>
<p>Who's fault is it?</p><div class="break"><p><img src="/images/break.gif" alt="section break"></p></div><p>The Palestinians, of course. But hardly theirs alone. As Nahum Barnea, Israel's finest journalist, put it today in Yediot Achronoth, "The US and Israel had a decisive contribution to this failure. The Americans, in their lack of understanding for the processes of Islamization in the territories, pressured to hold democratic elections and brought Hamas to power with their own hands…. Since the elections, Israel, like the US, declared over and over that "Abu Mazen must be strengthened," but in practice, zero was done for this to happen. The meetings with him turned into an Israeli political tool, and Olmert's kisses and backslapping turned Abu Mazen into a collaborator and a source of jokes on the Palestinian street."</p>
<p>The failures to which Barnea refers didn't start with the Palestinian elections either, not by a long shot. Back when Hamas was just a gleam in Sheik Ahmad Yassin’s blind eye, Israeli right-ringers were implementing a strategy to eliminate the authority of Palestinian moderates by building up religious extremists. These Israelis (some very high in Likud governments) believed that only supplanting Arafat’s Fatah with Islamic fundamentalists would prevent a situation under which Israel would be forced to negotiate with moderates. </p>
<p>It was in 1978 when the government of then-Prime Minister Menachem Begin indirectly assisted the start-up of a "humanitarian" organization known as the Islamic Association, or Mujama. The roots of this Islamist group were in the fundamentalist Muslim Brotherhood, of which Hamas is an offshoot, and it soon was flush with funding and political support. The right-wing strategists devised the theory of creating Hamas as an alternative to Fatah because they believed that Muslim Brotherhood types would devote themselves to charity and religious study and passively accept the occupation. They certainly would never put Israel on the spot by offering to negotiate. </p>
<p>Likud governments even deported Palestinian advocates of non-violent resistance (most notably, the Ghandian, Mubarak Awad) at the same time that it was doing everything it could to build the street cred of fanatics who, a few years later, would proclaim themselves Hamas, dedicated to Israel’s elimination.</p>
<p>The pro-Hamas tilt accelerated in 1988 when Yasir Arafat himself announced that he favored the two-state solution and that previous PLO demands that Israel be replaced by Palestine were, in his words “caduc” (inoperative). </p>
<p>An Arafat committed to two-states struck terror in the hearts of the settlers and their allies who were and are determined to hold on to the West Bank forever. Their worst fears were realized when Yitzhak Rabin and Shimon Peres repudiated this craziness and decided to engage with the PLO in order to strengthen it vis a vis Hamas, which was by the time Rabin came to office exceedingly powerful thanks in large part to the Israeli right’s support. </p>
<p>We all know the rest of the story. A young rightist killed Rabin in the belief (a belief indoctrinated in him by rightwing rabbis) that stopping Rabin would stop the peace process. As President Clinton told me in 1997, assassin Yigal Amir was right. Clinton said that unlike almost every other assassin in history, Amir achieved his goal, although not completely. </p>

<p>In this context, it is not difficult understanding how Hamas won the legislative elections in 2006. This is another ugly part of the story. First we demanded that the Palestinians hold elections (Abbas didn’t want them), then we dispatched monitors to certify sure they were “free and fair” which they were, but when we didn’t like the election results we rejected them and promised that the Palestinians would “pay.” Almost immediately Members of Congress rushed to stop almost all forms of aid not just to Hamas-run institutions but to the Palestinian people at large. </p>
<p>There was another way we might have gone. We could have welcomed Hamas’s participation in the election as a sign that Hamas was implicitly accepting the Oslo framework (which it was), insisted on the complete cessation of violence, and then used carrots and sticks to encourage the Hamas-run Palestinian Authority to mend its ways. But we offered no carrots, just sticks. And we didn’t even make much of an effort to strengthen Hamas’s arch-enemy, President Mahmoud Abbas, with Congress hastening to impose redundant and insulting conditions even on aid that was to be sent through him. </p>
<p>It was all fun and games, politics as usual. Meanwhile, Hamas looked better and better to a people whose salaries were not being paid, thanks to the US sponsored international boycott of the PA, and whose schools and hospitals were collapsing. </p>
<p>Today it is almost amusing to contemplate the professions of horror on the part of right-wing Israelis (and their neocon friends) who scream “bloody murder” about an outcome they helped effect and actually welcome.</p>
<p>The name of their game was, is, and always will be making sure that Israel has “no partner” with whom to negotiate. Their worst fear is of Palestinians like Mahmoud Abbas who is a credible negotiating partner. </p>
<p>I understand that this is a difficult point to assimilate. But the fact is that the Israeli (and American) right-wingers are rooting for the Palestinian extremists. And that is why, today, with Hamas fully in control of Gaza, they are as happy as Red Sox fans when the team is ten games up on the Yankees on Labor Day. </p>
<p>A new confidential United Nations Report confirms how Israeli and US policies have helped Hamas. Not only that, we have prevented the United Nations from using its own credibility to mitigate the situation.</p>
<p>In his report to the Secretary General, Alvaro de Soto, the UN’s special envoy to the Middle East, wrote, “Even-handedness has been pummeled into submission in an unprecedented way.</p>
<p>"The steps taken by the international community with the presumed purpose of bringing about a Palestinian entity that will live in peace with its neighbor Israel have had precisely the opposite effect…. With all the focus on the failings of Hamas, the Israeli settlement enterprise and barrier construction has continued unabated." He said “that Israeli policies seemed perversely designed to encourage the continued action by Palestinian militants,” whose stance toward Israel he called “abominable.” </p>

<p>He blasted the tendency that exists among U.S. policy-makers “... to cower before any hint of Israeli displeasure and to pander shamelessly before Israeli-linked audiences."</p>
<p>And he made clear that the politics-driven American agenda makes it nearly impossible for the international community to move Israelis and Palestinians toward peace. He specifically cites former World Bank chair, James Wolfensohn, a Jew determined to achieve some semblance of security for Israelis and Palestinians, as someone who finally threw up his hands in disgust when nickel-and-dime micromanaging by politicians only worried about the next election became too much to take. </p>
<p>De Soto cites with anger the three conditions which the international community demanded the Hamas-controlled Palestinian Authority meet before it receives aid – ending violence, recognizing Israel, and accepting all previously negotiated agreements. He maintains that they were designed to be rejected by Hamas and, in fact, as a pretext for punishing the Palestinians for voting wrong. </p>
<p>He points out that Israel itself has not recognized that Palestinians have a right to a state in the West Bank/Gaza or anywhere else. All Israel has ever done is recognize that the PLO is a legitimate negotiator on behalf of the Palestinian people, no different than recognition by the Palestinians that the government in Jerusalem is a valid negotiator for Jews living in historic Palestine. Asking Hamas to recognize Israel in advance of negotiations, a precondition not demanded of Jordan or Egypt, or of Israel vis a vis the Palestinians, was a non-starter and the authors of the three conditions knew it. </p>
<p>If the conditions were intended as an opening for diplomacy, there would only have been one condition: a full and complete cessation of terrorism. But they were not, and so the three conditions accomplished less than nothing. </p>
<p>De Soto does not let Hamas off the hook. But he does not employ the same yardstick to Israel that he does to a bunch of religious fanatics. Call that a double standard if you like but it is one supporters of Israel should appreciate. Israel is as different from Hamas as Tel Aviv is from Gaza City. De Soto expects Israel to behave rationally. He is shocked when it doesn’t.</p>
<p>Now the enemy could be truly at the gates. We can simply say “to hell with them” and watch Gaza become Hamasistan. Or we can get an international force in Gaza to stop the blood-letting, ensure that humanitarian needs are met, and adopt the policy of distinguishing between Palestinians ready to live in peace with Israel, whatever their affiliations, and those who aren’t. Above all, we can abandon a policy of starving people into submission, a policy reminiscent of the dictator who threatens that “the beatings will continue until morale improves.”</p>
<p>The Israeli-Palestinian conflict has always been a threat to American security, although one that is somewhat indirect. But this week’s events make the threat to America (and to Israel, of course) infinitely more direct. Hamas is on the brink of fully controlling territory adjacent to Israel and Egypt. Is there any reason to believe that if they solidify their hold, their Iranian friends (or even A-Q) will not follow?</p>
<p>A little urgency on the part of the Bush administration is long overdue. </p>

<p>As for the Israeli and Jewish right, these are good times. Palestinians are killing each other. There is "no partner" for negotiations. And, if lunatics own Gaza, they will never have to worry about negotiations. Besides they decided long ago that no Israel at all is preferable to an Israel without the West Bank.</p>
<p>Party on.</p> <div class="links"><br> Jun 15, 2007 -- 08:37 AM EST
| <a href="tags">Tags</a>: <a href="/coffee_house/barak" rel="tag" title="">Barak</a> | <a href="/coffee_house/fatah" rel="tag" title="">Fatah</a> | <a href="/coffee_house/hamas" rel="tag" title="">Hamas</a> | <a href="/coffee_house/israel" rel="tag" title="">Israel</a> | <a href="/coffee_house/middle_east" rel="tag" title="">Middle East</a> | <a href="/coffee_house/palestine" rel="tag" title="">Palestine</a> | <a href="/coffee_house/peace_process" rel="tag" title="">Peace Process</a>
 
its funny how people try to put the US in every conflict. Be like "hey that gorilla is fighting that giraffe in Africa...I bet the US has something to do with it"....

Can it be, just by chance, two factions just fighting for control without the US being in it? Must we always have the blame shine towards us? I guess when Bush becomes president, ANYTHING THAT HAPPENS IN THE WORLD is Bush's fault?
 
actinanass said:
its funny how people try to put the US in every conflict. Be like "hey that gorilla is fighting that giraffe in Africa...I bet the US has something to do with it"....
What? You live in a fantasy world? The U.S. has its interest; and other nations have their interest. Nations compete around the globe over their perceived interests.

You look at the world so simplistically. The only thing simple about it is: there are complex relations and interrelations between and among nations. The question or issue is NOT whether we are involved, in my opinion, its whether we're playing the right cards, at the right time, and with the right parties - short and long term.

actinanass said:
Can it be, just by chance, two factions just fighting for control without the US being in it? Must we always have the blame shine towards us? I guess when Bush becomes president, ANYTHING THAT HAPPENS IN THE WORLD is Bush's fault?
If you live in a fantasy world or you fail to understand how nations, including the U.S., interrelate/interact, YES (its just 2 factions and no one else is involved). :(

If you're hung up on what people say or think about George Bush or you're into the republican this vs. democrat that theology, YES. (its just 2 factions and no one else is involved). :(

... But is that real world? :smh:

QueEx
 
<font size="5"><center>After Gaza,
some question who was overthrowing whom</font size></center>



Reuters
By Adam Entous
Sun Jun 17, 2007 7:46 PM IST

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - The U.S. government began to lay the ground for President Mahmoud Abbas to dismiss the Hamas-led Palestinian government at least a year before the Islamist group's violent takeover of the Gaza Strip last week.

Western, Israeli and Palestinian official sources said over the weekend that, far from being an ad hoc response to Hamas's offensive, Abbas's declaration of a state of emergency and his replacement of a Hamas prime minister with Western favourite Salam Fayyad marked the culmination of months of backroom deliberations, planning and U.S. prodding.

In the end, pressure on Abbas to act against Hamas was as great -- if not greater -- from within his own Fatah faction as from Washington, which is seeking to play down its own role.

Only the triggering event, resulting in total Hamas control of the Gaza Strip, can be said to have come as a nasty surprise to the Americans. It left in tatters plans by U.S. and Arab allies to build up Abbas's own forces in Gaza against Hamas.

Many Western officials and analysts see the offensive as a pre-emptive strike by Hamas before Washington could build up Fatah. Hamas says it made its move against a U.S.-backed "coup".

"(Hamas leaders) knew what was going on," one senior Western diplomat said. "They knew Abbas was going to try to establish his authority. They read it in the paper like everyone else."

Exactly who was overthrowing whom is a fair question, said International Crisis Group analyst Mouin Rabbani.

"Hamas would argue they were merely defending their election victory whereas Abbas would claim he's defending the legitimacy of Palestinian institutions," he said. "You had powerful elements within Hamas who thought time was against them."

Edward Abington, Abbas's long-time adviser and Washington lobbyist, said the Bush administration made its intentions known to the president soon after Hamas was elected in early 2006. Abbas was told "Hamas is an illegitimate organisation and that they are doing everything they can to force it out of power".

Abington recounted a meeting as long ago as July last year at which "(Abbas) said to me that the Americans were urging him to kick out the government, to form an emergency government".

"He refused to do it because it would lead to civil war.

"(Abbas) did not want to get into a confrontation," said Abington. But in the end, he said, "it was forced on him."

Western officials said Abbas was able to move swiftly this week to form a new government because much of the advance work had already been done. In one closed-door briefing with U.S. lawmakers earlier this year, a senior U.S. official said Abbas could rule by decree for 6-12 months before elections are held.

On Sunday, faced with a constitutional article demanding any new government be approved by parliament, where Hamas has a majority, Abbas simply issued a decree scrapping that provision.


SANCTIONS

Current and former U.S. officials deny that overthrowing the government itself was their goal in cutting off funds last year to the Hamas-led Palestinian Authority while quietly directing cash to try to rebuild Fatah and prepare for new elections.

They say Washington's goal was to starve Hamas of financial and diplomatic support so it would fail in the eyes of voters.

U.S. security funds totaling nearly $60 million, coordinated by Lieutentant-General Keith Dayton, won a congressional green light but were still in the pipeline when Hamas struck in Gaza.

Diplomats said poor planning by Fatah and Israel's delay of weapons shipments to Gaza helped Hamas seize control. Congress held up funds and blocked training for many of Abbas's forces.

Israel's public security minister Avi Dichter said Fatah's problems stemmed from "a lack of leadership" and a poor command structure, not Israel's delay in approving weapons shipments.

Analyst Rabbani said Washington was hamstrung by "political restrictions it placed on itself. They weren't able to send any (U.S.) weapons. They weren't able to send all the money."


"OPPORTUNITY"

Despite Fatah's Gaza setback, some U.S. and Israeli officials see opportunities in Hamas's victory. Abbas's unity government blurred the line between Hamas and Fatah. Now, one European diplomat said, things may be more "black and white".

"It does clarify things" and may help Israel and the United States create a broader front against Hamas and its major backer, Iran, said a former Bush administration official.

Hamas, they note, has been left isolated in a sealed-off, densely populated scrap of coast. Renewing the flow of funds to Abbas in the much bigger West Bank, where stability is more critical to Israel, could help drive a wedge between the Hamas leadership and Gaza's increasingly impoverished population.

Some Western and Palestinian officials argue Washington fanned the flames as soon as Hamas and Fatah formed a short-lived "unity" government in March. U.S. officials pushed Abbas into giving Hamas's nemesis, Mohammad Dahlan, control over security and then pushed him to deploy Fatah forces in Gaza.

Abington, a former U.S. Consul General in Jerusalem, said: "For us to be seen so clearly backing one armed Palestinian military against another is a very dangerous proposition, and in the case of Gaza, has failed totally."

But Matthew Levitt, who until January handled terrorism issues at the U.S. Treasury, justified Washington's approach: "People question 'How can the United States promote democracy in the region and then not support an elected government?'

"There are consequences to electing terrorists," said Levitt, now at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy. "One of them is you can't expect the West to embrace them."

http://in.today.reuters.com/news/ne...R_RTRMDNC_0_India-303503-1.xml&archived=False
 
QueEx said:
What? You live in a fantasy world? The U.S. has its interest; and other nations have their interest. Nations compete around the globe over their perceived interests.

You look at the world so simplistically. The only thing simple about it is: there are complex relations and interrelations between and among nations. The question or issue is NOT whether we are involved, in my opinion, its whether we're playing the right cards, at the right time, and with the right parties - short and long term.


If you live in a fantasy world or you fail to understand how nations, including the U.S., interrelate/interact, YES (its just 2 factions and no one else is involved). :(

If you're hung up on what people say or think about George Bush or you're into the republican this vs. democrat that theology, YES. (its just 2 factions and no one else is involved). :(

... But is that real world? :smh:

QueEx


*edits* Now what interest does the US have in Palestine? In all honesty, Israel and the US is laughing at the Palestinians. If comedy constitutes as an interest then we should be at war with France for their lack of an immigration policy during the Chirac years...

*edits again* come to think about it, the us "interest" in this conflict is....overall peace.

analysis

2 sides fight, one side barely win, 2 new countries come in and demand the winner to have peace with NO bs, the one country has no choice, peace in the middle east *for a short time*...
 
Last edited:
actinanass said:
Now what interest does the US have in Palestine?
You're kidding, playing dumb, pulling my leg, acting an ass, . . . right?

actinanass said:
In all honesty, Israel and the US <s>is</s> <u>are</u> laughing at the Palestinians.
Again, you're kidding, playing dumb, pulling my leg, acting an ass, . . . right?

QueEx
 
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