Now Sports Illustrated goes in on Pacquiao!!!!1

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Time for Pacquiao to stop cheating history by inventing weight classes!!

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Another event, another catch ... weight, that is.

Nothing but disappointment and grumbling has been expressed in the wake of yet another failed attempt to match Floyd Mayweather Jr., and Manny Pacquiao, universally regarded as the two best fighters in the world today.

In a perfect world, a worthy alternative would be offered with at least the promise of something greater waiting in the wings. Instead, we get whatever promoters and networks elect to feed us.

Rather than a matchup to determine who's the best active fighter (and welterweight) in the world, we get a repeat of what we were already asked to pay for last year: Team Pacquiao inventing another weight class for the sake of chasing history.

From the moment promoter Bob Arum revealed in his after-hours conference call more than a week ago that the options for Pacquiao's next opponent were limited to two of his own fighters, it was clear that the final choice would come down to the one more willing to bend over and take it however the Vegas-based promotional company wanted to give it to them.

Arum stated on the call that he was confident that a deal could be reached within 10 days, though also claiming that negotiations had never yet begun with either Miguel Cotto or Antonio Margarito -- the two finalists in this year's Pacquiao opposition sweepstakes.

The comment was peculiar considering that Pacquiao -- for all of his charm, humility and in-ring greatness -- has proven in recent years to be a bear to deal with at the negotiating table. Deals to face Cotto, Ricky Hatton and Oscar De La Hoya all dragged on until the last possible minute, with all three fights in limbo at one point or another before being finalized.

At the heart of most negotiating complications is money, but the deal struck with Cotto went well beyond that. The sales pitch for their November 2009 showdown was Pacquiao pursuing a title in a record seventh weight class, just months after having become the only fighter in boxing history to capture lineal world championships in four separate divisions.

The biggest hang-up most had with the manner in which he was gunning for Cotto's title was his unwillingness to honor the actual welterweight limit. Cotto held his ground for as long as he could, demanding that the fight either takes place at 147 pounds for his title -- or at Pacquiao's suggested catchweight of 145 but without the alphabet hardware at stake.

With nobody looking out for his best interests -- Arum promotes both sides but was never going to tell Pacquiao to back down -- Cotto eventually gave in, agreeing to the catchweight and accepting the payday that came with title fight.

We are now at the same exact point, only the circumstances are far more suspect.

Without a deal in place, Arum has already claimed on the record that Margarito -- who has now emerged as the frontrunner to face Pacquiao on Nov. 13 -- is willing to concede to Team Pacquiao's demand for a catchweight of 150 pounds. That's a full four pounds beneath the junior welterweight limit.

If it were for any given fight, it wouldn't be much of an issue -- the weight or the fight itself. More than a few fans and media members have voiced their displeasure over Margarito being rewarded with a big payday while still being without a license to box in the United States. Those same outspoken critics have called for his banishment after being caught with loaded hand wraps prior to the eventual beatdown he would catch from Shane Mosley in their January 2009 fight. More so than the act itself, what doesn't sit right with most is Mararito's tendency to stop just short of accepting full responsibility for what took place that night whenever pressed.

But all of that stuff merely casts Margarito as the villain when the deal to face Pacquiao in November is finalized.

A villain is precisely what has been missing from Pacquiao's last several promotions. That's all the more reason why a showdown with Mayweather -- who has perfected the role of Public Enemy No. 1 for any given event in recent years -- would've resulted in the most lucrative prizefight ever.

You can argue that De La Hoya wore the black hat when he faced Pacquiao in December 2008, simply from the perspective of his having spent the past 11 years at 147 or higher while calling out a fighter who at the time had never fought heavier than 135. It was the first time in years that Pacquiao entered the fight as a considerable underdog, making it that much easier to root for him and only adding to the promotion.

Since then, the choice of opponents have hardly been the type of cats that you love to hate -- Ricky Hatton, of whom there's only one; Cotto, whom most either love or are simply indifferent two; and Joshua Clottey, who -- even if you dislike him -- never carried with the fans that level of interest to significantly add to any promotion.

From that perspective alone, Margarito serves a purpose -- one more reason to root for Pacquiao, one more reason to hate Margarito, one more reason to buy the pay-per-view event.

That was never going to happen with a Cotto rematch; if anything, it would detract from Pacquiao's popularity. Arum's sales pitch that Cotto brings enough to the table to make a second fight enticing never went very far; the lopsided beating is still far too fresh in everyone's memory -- as is the lousy undercard that preceded the main event.

Even worse, any record books that would recognize Pacquiao as an eight-division world champion -- had he won -- would've shown two wins over Cotto at two separate weight classes, neither of which would've come at the true divisional limit.

Sadly, part of that statement will still read true after Nov. 13, should he get by Margarito.

At stake for this event will be a belt that was vacated by Sergio Martinez -- to be contended by two fighters who between them account for zero notable wins at the 154-pound limit.

Margarito's most recent fight came at the junior middleweight limit, taking a 10-round decision over fringe contender Roberto Garcia. Prior to that fight, it was six years since he fought at the weight -- dropping a decision to Daniel Santos in their September 2004 rematch -- and even longer since he won a fight above welterweight.

In other words, nothing to earn the right to challenge for a title of any kind.

While Pacquiao arguably earns the right to fight for the belt of his choosing on social status alone, it's been more than two years since he's fought for any title sanctioned by the alphabet group who will recognize the winner of this fight as their junior middleweight champion. That fight for Pacquiao came three weight classes south, against David Diaz for a lightweight belt.

Pacquiao won that fight with ease, but never defended the belt or even returned to 135. That win came on the heels of his rematch win over Juan Manuel Marquez for the lineal junior lightweight championship, only to bolt from that division immediately after the fight.

His two-round blowout over Hatton for the lineal junior welterweight crown remains his only fight to date at the 140-pound weight limit. Several publications (including BoxingScene.com) continue to recognize him as the champion, even though he hasn't fought at the weight in more than a year, nor is it likely that he ever drops back down below the welterweight division.

In fact, for all of his belt-collecting in recent years, his 12-round whitewash over Clottey earlier this year marked the first successful title defense at any weight since he campaigned as the world featherweight champion more than six years ago.

Now, one fight into his welterweight reign, he eyes a belt in yet another division.

He doesn't want to pursue it the old-fashioned way -- by earning it -- or even by pursuing one of its many other beltholders, but instead by cherry-picking his way towards a vacant title ... in a fight where the participants could potentially weigh no heavier than four pounds below the actual divisional limit.

The demands for last year's Cotto fight -- while not universally embraced -- were at least somewhat forgiven, considering the fact that Pacquiao was at least facing a recognized beltholder.

But there are only so many times that a fighter and his team can keep dipping into the same well and expect his paying audience to come along for the ride.

Pacquiao's history-making run in recent years has proven that he's capable of sustaining his greatness even as he adds pounds to his frame and challenges himself in the ring against top-notch fighters.

But in the wake of failing to make a fight happen with Mayweather, and considering that there are plenty of other fighters in and around the welterweight division against whom the fans would much rather see him, the time has come for Manny Pacquiao and his handlers to stop cheating history.


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/mma/boxing/07/26/margarito.pacquiao/


Bout time they started to call Manny out on this shit!!:angry:
 
All the way in.


Still won't matter to the ESPN's of the world or even the majority of SI readers and staff.

gonna post this on the main board and see what happens. Havent read SI in a while but I know they will go in on anyway..i remember when they went in on Michael Jordan and he still doesnt fuck with them because of it :lol:
 
I'll bite.


You mean the practice or Pacquiao doing it? This is one of the few articles actually taking him to task that I've read from a mainstream media site.

The article is interesting. I love boxing so when someone gets into it like this I am always for it. But he missed out how organizations and title appear out of nowhere all the time. The catch weight is sort of lame though. But if a fighter except that fight then there is nothing to comp,ain about. I hate seeing dudes ducking fights way more than finding a way to make a fight. Also which is worse saying you don't care about titles or fighting champs at catch weights and making the fight?
 
The article is interesting. I love boxing so when someone gets into it like this I am always for it. But he missed out how organizations and title appear out of nowhere all the time. The catch weight is sort of lame though. But if a fighter except that fight then there is nothing to comp,ain about. I hate seeing dudes ducking fights way more than finding a way to make a fight. Also which is worse saying you don't care about titles or fighting champs at catch weights and making the fight?

When a dude is getting credit as possibly the greatest ever and being compared with guys like duran and Leonard, but literally NOT fighting at the weights that his titles belong to, that's worse, slightly, but worse, as the article states, it's cheating history. Not defending titles you win are just as bad. He never defended his 135 or 140 lb titles and has only one defense of his welterweight championship and is now jumping to "154"(150) to fight for a title when he's done nothing to earn a shot at that title. Also these fights are being made because the fighters he's fighting are in house fighters. How is it that the only 2 opponents mentioned for him were Cotto and Margarito when Williams, Cintron, Angulo and Berto can all fight at 154? Yet these "fights" are being "made" as you put it?
C'mon dude. Your seriously caping for Manny just as bad as some of these cats cape for Floyd. Neither one of them deserves to be called a true champ.

Manny does not go up to a division, EARN a title shot by taking out the top contenders, beat the champ and defend at least ONCE or TWICE. That is called dominating a weight class, THAT'S props, THAT'S a legend. He wins some bullshit alphabet title at a catchweight:confused:, doesn't defend, and then cherry picks to the next class at another catchweight - gtfoh:smh::angry:
That nicca has the ILLUSION of greatness right now - they both do - that shit will not hold up over the years.:smh:
 
The article is interesting. I love boxing so when someone gets into it like this I am always for it. But he missed out how organizations and title appear out of nowhere all the time. The catch weight is sort of lame though. But if a fighter except that fight then there is nothing to comp,ain about. I hate seeing dudes ducking fights way more than finding a way to make a fight. Also which is worse saying you don't care about titles or fighting champs at catch weights and making the fight?


The second one is worse to me. To say you don't care about titles is so honest it's off-putting. But the other is bullshit disguised as "making fights". I'll always go with the honest athlete even if he's saying something I don't like or agree with.

As for the titles, the promoters and organizations make the titles worthless to top drawing fighters, not the fighters. Making two unranked (as jr. middleweights) the top contenders for the jr. middleweight title devalues the title just as making an unranked lightweight the top contender to the welterweight title just to force the champion's hand.

When a dude is getting credit as possibly the greatest ever and being compared with guys like duran and Leonard, but literally NOT fighting at the weights that his titles belong to, that's worse, slightly, but worse, as the article states, it's cheating history. Not defending titles you win are just as bad. He never defended his 135 or 140 lb titles and has only one defense of his welterweight championship and is now jumping to "154"(150) to fight for a title when he's done nothing to earn a shot at that title. Also these fights are being made because the fighters he's fighting are in house fighters. How is it that the only 2 opponents mentioned for him were Cotto and Margarito when Williams, Cintron, Angulo and Berto can all fight at 154? Yet these "fights" are being "made" as you put it?
C'mon dude. Your seriously caping for Manny just as bad as some of these cats cape for Floyd. Neither one of them deserves to be called a true champ.

Manny does not go up to a division, EARN a title shot by taking out the top contenders, beat the champ and defend at least ONCE or TWICE. That is called dominating a weight class, THAT'S props, THAT'S a legend. He wins some bullshit alphabet title at a catchweight:confused:, doesn't defend, and then cherry picks to the next class at another catchweight - gtfoh:smh::angry:
That nicca has the ILLUSION of greatness right now - they both do - that shit will not hold up over the years.:smh:


Thank you. You're consistency is astounding.:D
 
When a dude is getting credit as possibly the greatest ever and being compared with guys like duran and Leonard, but literally NOT fighting at the weights that his titles belong to, that's worse, slightly, but worse, as the article states, it's cheating history. Not defending titles you win are just as bad. He never defended his 135 or 140 lb titles and has only one defense of his welterweight championship and is now jumping to "154"(150) to fight for a title when he's done nothing to earn a shot at that title. Also these fights are being made because the fighters he's fighting are in house fighters. How is it that the only 2 opponents mentioned for him were Cotto and Margarito when Williams, Cintron, Angulo and Berto can all fight at 154? Yet these "fights" are being "made" as you put it?
C'mon dude. Your seriously caping for Manny just as bad as some of these cats cape for Floyd. Neither one of them deserves to be called a true champ.

Manny does not go up to a division, EARN a title shot by taking out the top contenders, beat the champ and defend at least ONCE or TWICE. That is called dominating a weight class, THAT'S props, THAT'S a legend. He wins some bullshit alphabet title at a catchweight:confused:, doesn't defend, and then cherry picks to the next class at another catchweight - gtfoh:smh::angry:
That nicca has the ILLUSION of greatness right now - they both do - that shit will not hold up over the years.:smh:



I get what you are saying. I just don't see the big deal. I don't care Manny wins a belt and doesn't defend it. When the next fight is up against a person that has a chance to beat him. Him making fights is what sells at the moment. More power to dude. As long as each fighter makes weight I don't care.
 
I get what you are saying. I just don't see the big deal. I don't care Manny wins a belt and doesn't defend it. When the next fight is up against a person that has a chance to beat him. Him making fights is what sells at the moment. More power to dude. As long as each fighter makes weight I don't care.


Top five fighters of all time(yeah right) don't do that.
 
Man I am SUPER late on this thread...

That article is on point to this day...And shows why I do not like Pacquaio one bit...he never to my knowledge has pursued the Ring title in any division (or fought the other beltholders) since he was at 130...

this part says it all...

While Pacquiao arguably earns the right to fight for the belt of his choosing on social status alone, it's been more than two years since he's fought for any title sanctioned by the alphabet group who will recognize the winner of this fight as their junior middleweight champion. That fight for Pacquiao came three weight classes south, against David Diaz for a lightweight belt.

Pacquiao won that fight with ease, but never defended the belt or even returned to 135. That win came on the heels of his rematch win over Juan Manuel Marquez for the lineal junior lightweight championship, only to bolt from that division immediately after the fight.

His two-round blowout over Hatton for the lineal junior welterweight crown remains his only fight to date at the 140-pound weight limit. Several publications (including BoxingScene.com) continue to recognize him as the champion, even though he hasn't fought at the weight in more than a year, nor is it likely that he ever drops back down below the welterweight division.

In fact, for all of his belt-collecting in recent years, his 12-round whitewash over Clottey earlier this year marked the first successful title defense at any weight since he campaigned as the world featherweight champion more than six years ago.

Now, one fight into his welterweight reign, he eyes a belt in yet another division.

He doesn't want to pursue it the old-fashioned way -- by earning it -- or even by pursuing one of its many other beltholders, but instead by cherry-picking his way towards a vacant title ... in a fight where the participants could potentially weigh no heavier than four pounds below the actual divisional limit.

For as much as people get on Floyd for what he's doing, at least he was the lineal champ at one point at 147 or would've been undisputed champ if Zab didn't screw up...

My thing is this on Manny...don't try to come off as someone who goes up for "challenges" and then turn around and make demands for fighters to stoop to your level...you want to get credit? how about this...fight Marg when he doesn't have to weigh 150 as you demand...stay at a division for more than two fights...we all knew when BHop was at middleweight, he was #1 because he proved it...as much as I hate Calslappy, at least he proved he was #1 at 170...

whether he cares about belts or not, at the very least, prove that you are the best fighter in your division for once...
 
Man I am SUPER late on this thread...

That article is on point to this day...And shows why I do not like Pacquaio one bit...he never to my knowledge has pursued the Ring title in any division (or fought the other beltholders) since he was at 130...

this part says it all...



For as much as people get on Floyd for what he's doing, at least he was the lineal champ at one point at 147 or would've been undisputed champ if Zab didn't screw up...

My thing is this on Manny...don't try to come off as someone who goes up for "challenges" and then turn around and make demands for fighters to stoop to your level...you want to get credit? how about this...fight Marg when he doesn't have to weigh 150 as you demand...stay at a division for more than two fights...we all knew when BHop was at middleweight, he was #1 because he proved it...as much as I hate Calslappy, at least he proved he was #1 at 170...

whether he cares about belts or not, at the very least, prove that you are the best fighter in your division for once...


And he bounced out the lightweight division soon as Marquez arrived. Manny is a warrior, but he has a shitload of asterisks by all his accomplishments.
 
And he bounced out the lightweight division soon as Marquez arrived. Manny is a warrior, but he has a shitload of asterisks by all his accomplishments.

All fighters except for Ali have a shitload of asterisks. Lol, come on dude. Every fighter has holes you can find. Look at it this way. Look at the fights he made. Look at the challenges he took and compare them to everyone else in the game. The catchweight is old because we keep hearing a certain group talk about. Just like pbf fans get tired of hearing about he wont fight anperson who is on his level and in their prime to fight him. At the end of the day all I want it to see a good fight. I hope manny next fight is great. And i dont give a damn who wins.
 
All fighters except for Ali have a shitload of asterisks. Lol, come on dude. Every fighter has holes you can find. Look at it this way. Look at the fights he made. Look at the challenges he took and compare them to everyone else in the game. The catchweight is old because we keep hearing a certain group talk about. Just like pbf fans get tired of hearing about he wont fight anperson who is on his level and in their prime to fight him. At the end of the day all I want it to see a good fight. I hope manny next fight is great. And i dont give a damn who wins.

Bottom line is at least Pac is fighting period and he's fighting someone that's a perceived threat due to the obvious size disparity. Just to get a top fighter to fight anyone with any type of frequency is hard nowadays. All I want to see is a fight in the end and for the boxers to do their job....to box.
 
All fighters except for Ali have a shitload of asterisks. Lol, come on dude. Every fighter has holes you can find. Look at it this way. Look at the fights he made. Look at the challenges he took and compare them to everyone else in the game. The catchweight is old because we keep hearing a certain group talk about. Just like pbf fans get tired of hearing about he wont fight anperson who is on his level and in their prime to fight him. At the end of the day all I want it to see a good fight. I hope manny next fight is great. And i dont give a damn who wins.


But is it a good fight when one fighter has to lose a noticeable amount to weight to fight another? We know that negatively affects fighters and keeps them from being as sharp as they would at their normal or desired weight. So you end up with one fighter being extremely strong and another not being as strong. That's why I have zero interest in the mythical Mayweather-Martinez fight that was bandied around. Not for Mayweather's sake but I knew we would not get a full strength Martinez.

Bottom line is at least Pac is fighting period and he's fighting someone that's a perceived threat due to the obvious size disparity. Just to get a top fighter to fight anyone with any type of frequency is hard nowadays. All I want to see is a fight in the end and for the boxers to do their job....to box.


That's true.
 
But is it a good fight when one fighter has to lose a noticeable amount to weight to fight another? We know that negatively affects fighters and keeps them from being as sharp as they would at their normal or desired weight. So you end up with one fighter being extremely strong and another not being as strong. That's why I have zero interest in the mythical Mayweather-Martinez fight that was bandied around. Not for Mayweather's sake but I knew we would not get a full strength Martinez.




That's true.

Catchweights fights are fine except for a title fight. It isnt like manny is asking for people to move up one or two weight classes either. Mayweather fighting Martinez would be dope catchweight or not. If it turns out that the weight had a huge impact then I would understand anyone complaining.
 
Catchweights fights are fine except for a title fight. It isnt like manny is asking for people to move up one or two weight classes either. Mayweather fighting Martinez would be dope catchweight or not. If it turns out that the weight had a huge impact then I would understand anyone complaining.

That's kind of the point. He's fighting for a title in a division he's never fought in and fighting for it at a catchweight. Draining a guy is just as bad, and some may say worse, than having a guy puff up considering the lighter fighter wouldn't have to drain himself to make weight and could fight at weight close to his natural weight.

How many more fights where weight plays a big role does there have to be before it's a given that it can be decisive? It's good to be for making fights but not fights that insult our intelligence because then what's the real difference between boxing and pro wrestling? In both the outcome would be predetermined.
 
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