Nice evaluation of Kobe's scoring

Spectrum

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http://www.nba.com/aroundtheassociation/roundup_march2007.html
FOUR GAMES DO A MONTH MAKE

April 1, 2007 – Rarely is a month made in a week. How often, if ever, can the happenings of a four-week period be encapsulated in just four days?

It helps when those four days are part of something that hasn't been seen in 45 years; when those four days grab hold of the sports world and shake it to attention; when those four days make us wait in nervous anticipation for the fifth, to see if he'll do it again; when the he in question is Kobe Bryant.

March 16. March 18. March 22. March 23.

On those four days, Bryant scored, respectively, an NBA season-high 65 points against the Trail Blazers, 50 against the Timberwolves, 60 against the Grizzlies and, finally, 50 against the Hornets. That's 56.3 points per game. All of which were Lakers wins. All of which came on the heels of a seven-game losing streak, the longest of Phil Jackson's coaching career.

Bryant's eruption not only helped his team get back on track and strengthen its hold on sixth place in the Western Conference, it once again linked him in history with Wilt Chamberlain: In addition to having the two greatest scoring games of all-time, they are the only players to drop at least 50 in four straight.

(Of course, four was no big deal for The Stilt, whose longest spree saw him reach the half-century mark seven times in a row in December 1961.)

A lot has been made lately of Bryant's place in the pantheon of scoring legends – a likely byproduct of the two-week frenzy he's been on; his 53-point effort in an overtime loss to Houston on March 30 put his March average at 40.4 points per game, the fourth time in his career he has finished a month at 40. He and Chamberlain are the only players to average 40 in a calendar month since November 1964. That's right. Michael Jordan never did it.

As a result, a lot of questions have begun popping up. Is Kobe as dominant as Wilt? Is he as refined as Jordan? Is he the game's ultimate scorer?

Allow me to answer in a word: No.

It's one thing to place Bryant at the head of his generation, ahead of Allen Iverson and, at least for now, a few of the young bucks who are hot on his trail. That distinction is fair and arguable.

One can also argue that Bryant deserves to be ranked ahead of Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, George Gervin, Karl Malone and many of the other all-time great scorers. I'll buy that one, too.

To say he merits a mention alongside Wilt and MJ, however, is plain silly. The numbers just don't add up.

As Bryant said himself following the 43-point effort on March 27 that ended his string of 50s, Wilt was a human video game. Averaging 50 points was something he did for an entire season, not four or five games at a time.

The idea that someone can infiltrate The Big Dipper's realm of dominance with one extraordinary run is an insult to his legacy. I'm sorry. There's no other way to put it.

The same goes for claims against Jordan – as my colleague and resident fantasy freak Rick Kamla so eloquently pointed out.

If Bryant can hang on and clip Carmelo Anthony in the scoring race, he will earn his second scoring title – both in a row and overall – in 11 seasons. Jordan, on the other hand, won 10 scoring crowns in 15 campaigns.

Bryant's regular-season career scoring average is 24.5 points per game. Jordan's is 30.12.

In the playoffs, Kobe's average dips to 22.9. His Airness, on the other hand, actually kicked it up a notch and dropped 33.4 points per contest.

I could go on and reference more numbers, but I'll spare you the tedium and leave you, instead, with a final piece of advice:

Take Bryant's accomplishment and add it to his historic resume. Enjoy it for what it was – one of the most brilliant, awe-inspiring feats the NBA has ever seen. But don't tarnish it by forcing it into a place where it simply doesn't belong. There's no shame in being the third best, especially when the guys ahead aren't just great players but immortal ones.

Think I'm being too hard on KB24? Think he's got the goods to be ranked alongside Wilt and MJ? Drop me a line and tell me what you think.
 
Article 2

http://www.nba.com/fantasy/features/ltf_070330.html

On the fantasy show this past Tuesday, I ran some stats in the Low Five detailing how far Kobe Bryant has to go just to match Michael Jordan's collection of accomplishments. Let's put it this way, Kobe better bring his climbing gear, because Mike is sitting atop the basketball equivalent of Mt. Everest.

Here's the list of what Kobe needs to do just to tie Mike.

-- Three more rings (6-3).

-- Six Finals MVPs.

-- Five MVPs.

-- Eight more scoring titles (I'm assuming Kobe wins his second this season.)

-- Six more All-NBA First Team honors (I'm assuming Kobe gets his fourth this season.)

-- Five more All-Defensive First Team honors (9-4).

-- One Defensive Player of the Year award.

-- Three steals titles.

-- Raise playoff scoring average from 22.9 (Kobe) to 33.4 (Mike).

I know most of you think Kobe is the best player in the game. And I sincerely hope you came to that opinion before Kobe topped the 50-point barrier four times, because if The Streak is why you think Kobe's the best player in the game today -- or the greatest player of all-time (huh?) -- then you're not only shortsighted, but forgetful and presumptuous as well.

Kobe isn't even the best player in the game today.

That title (and the belt that goes along with winning THE title) belongs to Dwyane Wade, who is getting healthier and stronger and more determined every day. (Yeah Wade! Repeat after me: Miami in June...Miami in June...Miami in June...and pass it on...)

Whether you Kobe homers want to admit it or not, Wade is already on his level, yet Wade is 25 and Kobe's 28. How dominant is Wade going to be when he's 28, at which point his basketball IQ will have caught up with his freakish physical ability and talent?

More from Living The Fantasy
March 17: What Rookie Wall?
March 3: 2nd Trimester Awards
Feb. 24: One Sad Week

Head to Kamla's Korner
Let's put it this way, Wade at 28 is going to be better than Kobe at 28, and I'd say the same about LeBron James. That's no diss to Kobe, who is one of the all-time greats. I'm just saying Wade and LeBron have a chance to become greater. Assuming Wade and LeBron stay in Miami and Cleveland long-term, the rest of the Eastern Conference may have to resign itself to fighting for third place every year.

So if Kobe isn't the best player in the game today, then how can he even be compared to Michael Jordan, as many media members have done this past week?

It blows my mind how pundits--and some of them do know their stuff--can be so swept up in the moment that they forget the simple fact that Mike is the deadliest athlete in the history of sports. Freaks, when Mike went to battle, it was a fight to the death, and the other guy almost always came out dead, with Mike striking the Captain Morgan pose over the corpse.

You can have Babe Ruth and Wilt Chamberlain and Mohammed Ali and Jim Brown and Joe Montana and Gordy "freakin" Howe, just as long as I can have Mike on my side. Because with Mike on my side, I know I'm going to win. It's kinda boring...you know, all that winning and all, but you get used to it. It feels good.

Yes, Kobe has a knack for coming up huge in the clutch, no matter how much pressure is on him. He has three rings to prove it. Taken a step farther, Kobe already ranks among the greatest clutch shooters in history. He's also one of the toughest and hardest working players in history. Hey, I'm not a player hater. As a baller, you gotta give Kobe his due. (But to laud Kobe the person, he's gotta calm down on the court and stop trying to decapitate defenders. He's not a dirty player, but he has dirty player tendencies. Happy now, Kobe?)

All that said, Mike was tougher, Mike worked harder, and Mike was more clutch that anyone else--including your boy Kobe.

I've been watching sports like a hawk since the late 70s (I'm 37), and I've been clocking the NBA and NFL professionally since the early 90s. Listen, I have never seen a player will his team to victory like Michael Jordan. I mean, you knew before the game, that if the Bulls had to have it, they would get it because Mike wanted it that way. But even if the Bulls were down, say... seven points with 1:10 to go, you still had unwavering faith in Mike to hit a three to draw it to four, then make a steal and a quick layup to draw within two, and now the Bulls can play honest defense and then have Mike carve out your heart on their next possession.

If I saw that rabbit-out-of-the-hat scenario once, I saw it a thousand times. And so did Karl Malone, John Stockton, Patrick Ewing, Charles Oakley, Gary Payton, Shawn Kemp, Reggie Miller, Charles Barkley, Terry Porter, and a bunch of other dudes who got Jordaned in the 90s.

Get it straight, media members and hoop heads...

Kobe is Great, but Mike is The Greatest Ever.

(By the by...not in a million years would Mike ever let Tarence Kinsey outscore him and hit the game-winning three over him in a preseason game, let alone a critical regular season HOME game in late March. Never ever ever. So chill the (bleep) out on the "Kobe is Mike's equal on defense" nonsense. That's as silly as saying Ben Affleck can act. Peace!)
 
SpiritualPorn said:
Thank You

I can't wait to hear Cran's response.

yeah

For a sec... I actually thought Cran wrote the second article...until it got to the part about Mike being the GOAT.. I think in another thread Cran casted his vote for Russell.
 
Re: Nice evaluation of tobe's scoring

SpiritualPorn said:
I can't wait to hear Cran's response.

after discussing this matter with my attorney, i have been instructed not to make any further comments regarding these writings as we are preparing litigation for plagiarism.

we look forward to our day in court and are confident that a jury will return the proper verdict.

thank you.

:D
 
Kobe is ruining the GAME??

cranrab said:
after discussing this matter with my attorney, i have been instructed not to make any further comments regarding these writings as we are preparing litigation for plagiarism.

we look forward to our day in court and are confident that a jury will return the proper verdict.

thank you.

:D


http://www.helium.com/tm/242358

Okay I found something





John Wooden built it, Magic Johnson supercharged it, Jordan commercialized it and now Kobe has killed basketball. The game of basketball is a great example of a team can be greater than the individual parts. Kobe, however, has never figured that out.

There was a time when a team that played together not only defined the sport but elevated it to a level never before seen. The greatest time in the history of the NBA was when Magic Johnson and Larry Bird played. Each player had one-of-a-kind talents but what made them great was their ability to make their teammates better. That 'style' of play brought basketball into the living room of every house in America.

Then came Michael Jordan, who had ability like we've never seen before. He dazzled with athletic moves and wowed with amazing shots but his greatest accomplishment was bridging the gap between a sport and corporate America. The legacy of 'Jordan' shoes continues even today, years past his retirement. Unfortunately, his earlier days of playing created a movement that promoted individuality. Ironically, he never won championships until he learned how to play more as a team member.

Kobe has yet to figure that out. I love basketball and I bleed Laker purple and gold but I can't watch them anymore. Admittedly, I am simply amazed each time I see one of Kobe's super-human dunks and am wowed when he drops 50 points like it's mowing the lawn. But basketball is a team game.

Kobe's in his 11th season and averaging more than 30 points per game for the second consecutive season. The rest of his stat sheet is pretty darn impressive too. If you've ever watched him play you know why it looks like he's doing it all... because he's doing it all. Nobody else can get an assist if they don't get the ball, they can't get a rebound if they don't know when Kobe's going to shoot and they certainly won't go far in the playoffs if they don't play like a team.

It's true that certain parts of his game were parts of a foundation laid before his time but Kobe is certainly not bucking the system. It's clear to anyone watching that he's more interested in proving he's great than he with winning a game. What used to be a great example of a team game has turned into a nationally televised gymnastics event with nine spectators in the front row.

Kobe has killed the game and turned it into a spotlight.
 
Re: Nice evaluation of tobe's scoring

eewwll said:
I think in another thread Cran casted his vote for Russell.

yeah. i just don't see anybody duplicating the WINNING. not individual stat stockpiling. but WINNING.

55 consecutive wins in college? 2 consecutive national championships at USF with k.c. jones?

8 consecutive NBA championships? 11 overall NBA championships? the final 2 consecutive NBA championships as simultaneous player AND coach? GTFOH!

winning NBA coach at age 32?

it's not even close.
 
Re: tobe is ruining the GAME??

SpiritualPorn said:
http://www.helium.com/tm/242358Kobe has yet to figure that out. I love basketball and I bleed Laker purple and gold but I can't watch them anymore. Admittedly, I am simply amazed each time I see one of Kobe's super-human dunks and am wowed when he drops 50 points like it's mowing the lawn. But basketball is a team game.

Kobe's in his 11th season and averaging more than 30 points per game for the second consecutive season. The rest of his stat sheet is pretty darn impressive too. If you've ever watched him play you know why it looks like he's doing it all... because he's doing it all. Nobody else can get an assist if they don't get the ball, they can't get a rebound if they don't know when Kobe's going to shoot and they certainly won't go far in the playoffs if they don't play like a team.

It's true that certain parts of his game were parts of a foundation laid before his time but Kobe is certainly not bucking the system. It's clear to anyone watching that he's more interested in proving he's great than he with winning a game.

Kobe has killed the game and turned it into a spotlight.

tobe isn't killing the game. the game has been deteriorating ever since the NBA started pandering to euros and preying upon teens. but tobe prodigious chucking isn't helping either. tobe's scoring doesn't make him great, it makes him prodigal.

other players don't/won't duplicate these scoring binges because they don't want to, not because they can't. how many players WANT to throw up 40-50 FGAs? how many coaches would allow it? how many teams would tolerate it?

tobe's scoring binges may conjure up a hysterical illusion of michael jordan for young fans, but there's no substance to a comparison of the two. scottie pippen recently answered a question about an attribute of michael jordan's that clearly separates the two players:

NBA.com: What was Michael’s greatest attribute as a teammate?
Pippen: I think it was his mental toughness, the ability to intimidate people, whether it was his teammates or an opponent, he always had that mental edge. He had that aura about himself that people want to feel wondering am I guarding Michael Jordan or is Michael Jordan guarding me? Just that gave us a huge advantage because people would see Michael as not an ordinary basketball player, but as a mega star. Not many would go out of their way to challenge him or they would sort of fold up and go into a little shell. He brought a lot of intangibles there that were helpful.

so, who's afraid of the big, bad chucker?
 
BTW,

did anyone notice that six fakers reached double figure scoring in the game against the sacramento kings? and the fakers logged a 20+ point blowout. what a coincidence!

the faker "bums" FG% was off the charts. so much for them being NBDL players who can't hit open shots.

hmmmm.... tobe scores a reasonable 19 points and the fakers roll to their easiest win in weeks.
 
Re: tobe is ruining the GAME??

cranrab said:
NBA.com: What was Michael’s greatest attribute as a teammate?
Pippen: I think it was his mental toughness, the ability to intimidate people, whether it was his teammates or an opponent, he always had that mental edge. He had that aura about himself that people want to feel wondering am I guarding Michael Jordan or is Michael Jordan guarding me? Just that gave us a huge advantage because people would see Michael as not an ordinary basketball player, but as a mega star. Not many would go out of their way to challenge him or they would sort of fold up and go into a little shell. He brought a lot of intangibles there that were helpful.

so, who's afraid of the big, bad chucker?

I made this same point a couple of years ago on BGOL. Michael Jordan literally PWNED his opponents.. they feared matching up against him..on both sides of the ball.. not just worried about him scoring a lot of points.. they feared being dominated on both sides of the ball and playing a player that relentless brought the heat to you... if people have never seen MJ play live.. they missed a treat.. watching on TV does not capture it.. I have never seen a player do more off the ball work..relentless movement...to get open or wear down his opponent.. it was literally the game and then JORDAN in hyperspeed on his own level...

but getting back to the point.. he was feared.not only because he could score.. but because players knew that he would literally WILL his team to victory..like the Flu Game.. or the Game 6 in the last finals win..when he drove quickly and scored... then stole the ball from Malone..then came back and scored the final basket to win it... he was always capable of that type of performance and it seemed like he never set us down in big games..
 
tobe's scoring

"I always thought if a big man can't get 10 rebounds a night, he shouldn't be playing. Any big guy who can't get 10 rebounds a night, that [ticks] me off. That's why the game [ticks] me off at times, because rebounding is strictly just hard work. Come on now, a big guy's gotta get 10 rebounds. That's hard work and effort. I always thought scoring was overrated. If you want to score a lot of points, all you have to be is a gunner." - charles barkley
 
Re: tobe's scoring

cranrab said:
"I always thought if a big man can't get 10 rebounds a night, he shouldn't be playing. Any big guy who can't get 10 rebounds a night, that [ticks] me off. That's why the game [ticks] me off at times, because rebounding is strictly just hard work. Come on now, a big guy's gotta get 10 rebounds. That's hard work and effort. I always thought scoring was overrated. If you want to score a lot of points, all you have to be is a gunner." - charles barkley

Barkley was the man...and he was an undersized rebounder in terms of height...

Cran,

which question and way off-topic.

Man.I have been overseas for the better part of the last two year..however, I have been back in the U.S. the last two weeks visiting...and got a chance to see some college bball (as well as Kobe score 53 points in a loss where he shot 49 times :eek: :eek: )

but anyway..

What do you think about Greg Oden?

Man... I think this kid has A LOT of upside.. He bangs the boards hard.. plays defensive aggressively..and at least for the few games I saw.. a skilled enough offensive player.. Raw.. but skilled and already has some post moves...I came away really impressed.. still have not seen Durant play much (outside of hightlights)..but from what I saw..Oden looks promising...
 
Re: tobe's scoring

i'm the wrong guy to ask.

i'm not fond of underclassmen, nor am i a fan of the college game. too many opportunities to hide individual weaknesses on a college team.

i only saw a few games of both players, and i'm not really excited. greg oden has A LOT of raw talent, but i'm not convinced that he's the player people are suggesting he is. same goes for kevin durant, who reminds me of dontae' jones.

i've been wrong before in gauging talent, but very seldom. my biggest mistake was david robinson. obviously a very huge mistake.
 
Re: tobe's scoring

eewwll said:
What do you think about Greg Oden?

Man... I think this kid has A LOT of upside.. He bangs the boards hard.. plays defensive aggressively..and at least for the few games I saw.. a skilled enough offensive player.. Raw.. but skilled and already has some post moves...I came away really impressed.. still have not seen Durant play much (outside of hightlights)..but from what I saw..Oden looks promising...

If you saw the NCAA Final then you saw a few guys that should have long and prosperous NBA careers (Oden, Conley, Brewer, Horford). Greg Oden definitely has the potential to be a great player because of what he brings to the table on defense. The guy is a monster on the boards and his presence in the paint has most college players scared to drive to the basket. (Which is one reason why I was wondering why Thad Matta's defensive game plan was so flawed versus Florida as there was no excuse to keep Florida that perimeter oriented with a dominant defender like Oden manning the paint)

His game on offense certainly needs work as he needs to develop more posts moves other than his go to move (the turnaround hook) and for someone that played half the season shooting with his left hand, I was shocked to see how little he went to it in the game.

As far as Durant, he is a great player and can score all over the court but I think he is definitely a victim of the hype. He reminds me a of a kid that dominated because he was bigger than everyone else. Not to mention his team is not that good and relied on him more than other powerhouse squads would rely on one player.



cranrab said:
i only saw a few games of both players, and i'm not really excited. greg oden has A LOT of raw talent, but i'm not convinced that he's the player people are suggesting he is. same goes for kevin durant, who reminds me of dontae' jones.

You talking about Erick Dampier's former teammate at Mississippi State?
 
Re: tobe's scoring

Thanks for the insight Xfactor..

and excellent call on the Florida matchup...they should have extended the perimeter defense and forced them to drive...too much wide open spot up 3's.

The only games I have seen of Oden were the final four and then championship game.. he looked impressive to me.
 
Re: tobe's scoring

eewwll said:
Thanks for the insight Xfactor..

and excellent call on the Florida matchup...they should have extended the perimeter defense and forced them to drive...too much wide open spot up 3's.

The only games I have seen of Oden were the final four and then championship game.. he looked impressive to me.

I thought Oden was all hype until he went up against my team (Florida).

I really thought if Matta went inside to Oden often and early the result would have been different. Oden was pretty dominant.

BTW.......Our gardensnake was 14-31 in the loss while his "shitty" teammate had the triple double......

A history stat that I wasn't aware of :......The Lakers went on their 33 game winning streak AFTER Elgin Baylor retired............

The Baylor / Bryant comparison is far more accurate than Jordan / Bryant.
 
HorseLove.jpg
 
Re: tobe's scoring

xfactor said:
As far as Durant, he is a great player and can score all over the court but I think he is definitely a victim of the hype. He reminds me a of a kid that dominated because he was bigger than everyone else. Not to mention his team is not that good and relied on him more than other powerhouse squads would rely on one player.





You talking about Erick Dampier's former teammate at Mississippi State?

one and the same. similar body type, one year div 1, opted to go pro after only 1 season. drafted 21st overall by the knicks. didn't get 1 minute of tick the entire 1996-1997 season (but fellow knick rookies john wallace and walter mccarty did), traded to the celtics the following season and never won a spot there.

ended up playing overseas before taking another shot with the wizards.

dontae' jones' FG% dropped as his competition increased. his size and ability weren't enough to allow him to coast along like he did before the NBA.

dontae jones is that puzzling enigma who is a balancing act for both sides of the "leave college early" argument.

on the one hand, given dontae' jones' size, had he stayed 3 more years, his game (and work ethic) may have significantly improved and allowed him to have a lengthier career in the NBA.

on the other hand, perhaps dontae' jones' stock may never have been as high again, with mississippi state not being able to go as deep into the tournament as they had. indeed, his stock may have dropped even further had he stayed on.
 
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