nba myth #3 - euros are catching up

cranrab · Nov 18, 2006

please refer to myth #2 for some additional background.

i already spoke on andrea bargnani, who got USED tonight by --- kwame brown? :confused:

but let's be real about this euro garbage situation in the NBA. euros are NOT catching up. they still suck, are 1 dimensional, diminish the talent pool and are not exciting or inspiring to watch.

the raptors have FIVE international players, and they are in the cellar of the atlantic division...

the dallas mavericks' are 4-4 in their division, second to last place, ahead of only the lowly memphis grizzlies. but isn't the wunderkind dirk nowitzki supposed to be the german golden child? what medal did the germans win at the world championships again?

i know what you're thinking. you're saying to yourself "cranrab is crazy. what about his eurotah jazz? they're winning, and they have 3 euros on their squad."

TRUE ENOUGH. but andrei kirilenko isn't making quite the impact he used to, and neither is gordon giricek. the media is hyping up mehmet okur, but he's not even leading the jazz in a SINGLE category. the ON court kudos go to carlos boozer and deron williams, who are both playing LIGHTS OUT right now. the OFF court nod goes to coach sloan, who has the jazz playing as good on the road (4-1) as he does at home (4-0).

c_commander · Nov 18, 2006

I agree with you that euro are overrated. Look no further than Nikolas Tzikivilli and Pietrus who were supposed to be impact players. Over the last couple of drafts it seemed to be a backlash against euro as there less guys going lottery and other than Bargaini and Selofosha with the Bulls.I don't think any other euros went top 15.I think they are referring more to the fact that the us isn't winning international competitions and that there are guys like Gasol,Parker,Nowitski,Ginobilli,Nocioni,etc who are making big impacts in the league.

UnderDogg · Nov 19, 2006

cranrab said:
the dallas mavericks' are 4-4 in their division, second to last place, ahead of only the lowly memphis grizzlies. but isn't the wunderkind dirk nowitzki supposed to be the german golden child?

Have the Mavs not won at least 50 games for the last 5 years in a row now? Have the Mavs not made the WCF in 2003 and 2006 in a very competitive west? Did the Mavericks not make the NBA Finals last year(lost)??? And after having started the season 0-4, have the Mavs not won 5 in a row???

I agree with you up to a point about Euro players, but not all of em suck as bad as you make them out to be.

cranrab · Nov 19, 2006

UnderDogg said:
Have the Mavs not won at least 50 games for the last 5 years in a row now? Have the Mavs not made the WCF in 2003 and 2006 in a very competitive west? Did the Mavericks not make the NBA Finals last year(lost)??? And after having started the season 0-4, have the Mavs not won 5 in a row???

I agree with you up to a point about Euro players, but not all of em suck as bad as you make them out to be.

therein lies the rub, my friend. are you attributing the mavericks' milestones listed above to the contributions of dirk nowitzki? i would suggest that a solid american player would've added more to that club.

BTW, all of those Ws you mentioned were against teams with losing records. 4 of the 5 came courtesy of the WORSTern conference: phoenix (3-6), portland (5-6), memphis twice (1-8). chicago is 3-6.

cranrab · Nov 19, 2006

your response is worth a closer look

i have more time to respond now that the morning and afternoon NFL games are over.

UnderDogg said:
Have the Mavs not won at least 50 games for the last 5 years in a row now?

actually, 6 consecutive seasons. and, someone could make the case that dirk nowitzki improved the dallas mavericks each of the 5 seasons he was there from 1999-2003.

but would that claim be accurate?

after all, 2 time NBA MVP steve nash joined the dallas mavericks the same season, and played in all those improving seasons too. i couldn't make a case for michael finley, because he was already with the mavericks when they were garbage in 1997 and 1998.

my thing is, the mavericks could've just used their 6th pick to select paul pierce instead of drafting robert traylor

and trading DOWN to the 9th spot for dirk nowitzki.

RunawaySlave · Nov 21, 2006

Watch out for the Kings!!!

(I like them now, lol)

neo_cacos · Nov 26, 2006

cranrab said:
therein lies the rub, my friend. are you attributing the mavericks' milestones listed above to the contributions of dirk nowitzki? i would suggest that a solid american player would've added more to that club.

BTW, all of those Ws you mentioned were against teams with losing records. 4 of the 5 came courtesy of the WORSTern conference: phoenix (3-6), portland (5-6), memphis twice (1-8). chicago is 3-6.

It will take a while for the euros to establish themselves...but again, all have changes will be proportional with how much the nba styles is played on an international level.
As the NBA styles is practiced more and more overseas, the internationally-trained players will adjust faster and faster to the NBA.
Just look at hockey, people use to say that they can't play in the NHL, they're too soft, they won't last.
But 15 years later it's a different story.
Now the rethoric has changed...it is now :
A european captain has not won the Stanley cup, they can't win in playoffs. But this will change in the next 2-5 years.
And of course, we'll find something else to attach to them.

We can say what we want, but euros will change the game, just like WE have changed it.

neo

cranrab · Nov 26, 2006

neo_cacos said:
euros will change the game, just like WE have changed it.

neo

i have never contested that euros have/will/can change basketball. they already have: it's become WORSE.

the global evolution of basketball is EXACTLY like the american export of the music known as jazz across the globe. for more than 50 years musicians worldwide have become TECHNICALLY PROFICIENT so as to appear similar to american jazz musicians, but euro ape-ing or mimicry plateaus and fizzles out because AT BEST the euros can only become cheap copies of american players.

euro players have scripted routines and moves; euro players lack the improvisation and creativity of american players, just like european and japanese musicians NEVER approach the originality, innovation of lester young, dizzy gillespie, charlie parker or john coltrane.

euros CAN NOT and WILL NOT EVER be as good as american players. but what the nba CAN DO and WILL DO is annually LOWER THE BAR so that the euro turds appear to be "catching up". :hmm:

RunawaySlave · Nov 27, 2006

With the advent of "the flop", marginal defenders like Andre Nocioni
can compete in the paint with all stars like Elton Brand and Jermaine
O'Neal. All they have to do is fall backwards with arms flailing (a
true bitch move) and the ref will ALWAYS give them the benefit of
a doubt. There is more ACTING going on in today's game than at
any point in my recent memory. I have never in my life seen so MANY
6'10", 240lb men falling backwards

It's really quite sad to watch.....and boring as hell too. Even 7'7",
300-something lb Yao Ming does it

pitiful

Note to NBA referees and idiot (or shill) announcers:

No grown man gets knocked on his behind that easily unless he
WANTS TO FALL ON HIS BEHIND

ANYTIME a man falls backward....it is a FLOP

RunawaySlave · Nov 29, 2006

One other thing (for now). In regards to the new "rule changes"
involving the carry and/or palming violations.

After watching the Chicago Bulls play in back to back games, it
is my conclusion that there is NO one who places his hand underneath
the ball while dribbling it more than Kirk Hentrich. He dies
it more than even Iverson

Yet, not one violation in two games. One in NY and the other Chicago

I am sure there are others, but none more pronounced than this
guy. Considering how often they've called this call on Knick guards,
I would of thought that this was a league wide memorandum

cranrab · Nov 30, 2006

revisiting underdogg's post and the dallas mavericks

UnderDogg said:
And after having started the season 0-4, have the Mavs not won 5 in a row?

in the 10 days since you last posted, the mavericks win streak has extended to 11 games. quite a feat.

of course, the achievement should be tempered with a reminder that only 1 (or was it 2?) of the victories came against an opponent with a winning record.

but back to the topic of the thread. the mavericks' featured euro player (dirk nowitzki) was injured after 10 minutes of play tonight, and the yet the mavericks somehow mysteriously managed to flourish without him, winning by a 19 point margin.

coincidentally (or perhaps not coincidentally), 19 points happens to be the 2nd largest margin of victory that the mavericks have had during this winning streak.

cranrab · Dec 3, 2006

havoc - can you do it?

this is an open invitation to the board.

using only euros, can you field a legit squad (meaning a balanced roster - not 5 centers or some shit) that could win 60 games?

contend for a NBA title?

Complex · Dec 3, 2006

Re: havoc - can you do it?

Tony Parker, Manu, AK47, Nowitski, Yao

Gasol, Nocioni(Chicago), Kristic, Jaric(Minnesota), Sarunas(Indiana), Pietrus(Golden State), Biedrins(Golden State), Darko

Not going to count Nash or Bogut

The biggest problem are the guards suck. The one on the Lakers couldn't start for half the teams in the top 25 in college. And I always thought that they should complain about the international players instead of high school players, but of course most of them are white.

cranrab · Dec 3, 2006