Nas vs. Rakim

[FJP]

Cats will act like its blasphemy but I'd definitely take Nas over Rakim. Cause lyricism is about what? Originality/complexity/concepts.... Rakim was the Nas of his era. To be honest tho alot of Rakims "knowledge dropped" was really just him speaking in 5 percent dialect. Anyways If you compare the styles Nas has dropped more "science" than Ra, His flowing style is far more complex and conceptually he blows Rakim off the map. Nas' greatness is shown by his longevity...he still drops lyricism and is still successful 14 years after arriving in the game. Rakim was gone from radar 14 years after he came in the game.

I really sat down and listened to Rakims albums last night after I was listening Nas. Rakim was complex for his time. But even if you compare the album Nas dropped in 96' (It was written) to the 18th Letter which was 98 Nas album is "deeper". Conceptually like I said I dont even think it was close. I just didnt hear anything Ra had that could fuck with tracks like Rewind, I Gave you power, Who killed it?... Maybe its just me but I'd give Nas the Nod, his style is more timeless.

 

[dacrazydeafdawg]

two different eras.. u dont compare a bottle of E&J to a bottle of courevisor?

my thing with rakim he didnt evolve..would be nice to see if he did but he just an old school legend..

nas i seen him from being a stickup kid in the world is yours to a corporate hnic making papers in his sleep with a bomb ass ghetto trophy dime as his wife...

as my man big black would said.. DO WORK!!!!

 

[mrjody]

Ra got cought up in bad contracts and corporate bullshit.
Not because he fell off when the styles changed.
In fact, his abscence is one of the reasons that styles DID change.
Had he been allowed to flourish, the entire hip hop musical landscape
would be different.



[FRAME]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rakim[/FRAME]

 

[Spectrum]

Rakim... but FJP.. You should add a POLL to this post so you can track votes.

 

[FJP]

two different eras.. u dont compare a bottle of E&J to a bottle of courevisor?

my thing with rakim he didnt evolve..would be nice to see if he did but he just an old school legend..

nas i seen him from being a stickup kid in the world is yours to a corporate hnic making papers in his sleep with a bomb ass ghetto trophy dime as his wife...

as my man big black would said.. DO WORK!!!!

Thats exactly why I chose Nas, Nas evolved. Nas came through the Wu Tang Era, The Biggie/Pac Era/The Thug era/ The shiny suits/ The DMX type era/Bling Bling Era..and now the snap era and he's still making good music and having success.

 

[FJP]

Rakim... but FJP.. You should add a POLL to this post so you can track votes.

Unless Im missing where the shit is I dont see the "add a poll option" And cats that are making choices at least give a reason.

 

[Spectrum]

Unless Im missing where the shit is I dont see the "add a poll option" And cats that are making choices at least give a reason.

I dont know where it is because I never tried. But cats on here put polls in their posts so its there somewhere.

as far as Rakim being the GOAT.

First i want to say...that Nas can be at the top of any list or top 3 and it could be legitimate. I just prefer putting Rakim there for the following reason..i have more.. but I dont want to spend much time with this shit.

1. He changed the face of hip-hop. He ushered that whole multi-syllabic lyricism and internal rhyme scheme to the game. It did not even exist before him. His wordplay is top notch. I love Nas, but he has done nothing to CHANGE the game. He has come with heat... but never game-changing heat.


2. You mentioned timeless. Man. I still put in Paid in Full and it still is that fire...same as the first time I listened to it. I can listen to a Rakim track and it sounds like it was made just yesterday dude was so ahead of his time.

3. Even if you dont call Rakim the GOAT, you would probably agree he was the most influential. He fathered a whole new era.

Nas dropped a hip hop classic... and the album I have probably listened to more than any other album: Illmatic.. but he has dropped his fair share of hot trash as well... Nastradamus immediately comes to mind. Plus man..I dont think Nas has ever been hotter than on his first album. He has a lot of hot songs and good albums.. but like Jay Z.. he peeked on his first album.. I cant call him the greatest if all his work after his first album doesnt live up to the first work.

Rakim has not had the commercial success of Nas... but I think just on being an MC.. I would go with Rakim

 

[slimmgoody]

Rakim

 

[jiggylo09]

See this is where yall get the game twisted...when Rakim was out the crack game wasn't even at its peak yet as young cat Nas was able to build off Rakim style and more started happening...in the streets of NY back when Rakim God Allah came out most of NY was in the trend of the 5% Nation that was the thing in the early 80's... such as other rappers wh were 5% King Sun
& Big Daddy Kane K.A.N.E King Asiatic Nobody's Equal..Nas wouldn't even agree on this post trust me!!!!

 

[KINGFROMQUEENS]

I GOTTA GO WITH "THE R". RAKIM JUST HAS A LITTLE BIT OF A NICER FLOW. I WOULD PUT NAS IN THE SAME GROUP AS HIM THOUGH. 2 OF THE BEST TO EVER PIC UP A MIKE FOR SURE.

<IMG SRC="http://bravo6.freewebspace.com/images/shakira.jpg">

 

[hotair]

Nas, himself, stated that Rakim is the GOAT. My vote:

THE 'R'

 

[FJP]

Nas, himself, stated that Rakim is the GOAT. My vote:

THE 'R'

I mean seriously why would Nas say he's better than Rakim even if he feels it? Thats not the "hip hop" thing to do. Just like Im pretty sure Jay feels he's better than Big now but he doesnt say it.

 

[Spectrum]

I mean seriously why would Nas say he's better than Rakim even if he feels it? .

I agree. Nas has too much respect for the pioneers to say something like that.

 

[FJP]

See this is where yall get the game twisted...when Rakim was out the crack game wasn't even at its peak yet as young cat Nas was able to build off Rakim style and more started happening...in the streets of NY back when Rakim God Allah came out most of NY was in the trend of the 5% Nation that was the thing in the early 80's... such as other rappers wh were 5% King Sun
& Big Daddy Kane K.A.N.E King Asiatic Nobody's Equal..Nas wouldn't even agree on this post trust me!!!!

Man the crack game has nothing to do with this Im comparing flows, lyrics, complexity and overall skill its not hard to compare those no matter what era. Yeah just someone is inspired by yours style doesnt mean they cant become better than you. In fact every teachers goal is to one day be surpassed by the pupil. Most of the replies Im hearing is that "Nas was inspired by Ra so he cant be better.." thats dumb. Thats like saying because all cars were inspired by Ford creating the model T that a Mercedes isnt better than a Model T because the Model T was the inspiration for all cars as Ra was the inspiration for most rappers.......

 

[FJP]

Yeah, see FJP man you can't compare 2 different era's like that...dude how old are you? That's the rules of the game, it should never be done

Rules of the game? Man please, Hell do you mean how old am I..aint you 19 dude?... Nas has lasted over about 8 eras so how can you say you cant compare eras when one of the participants in the comparison has lasted over all Eras... Nas came on the scene in 92 Ra debuted in 87 its not that far of a gap.

 

[12dahead]

Thats exactly why I chose Nas, Nas evolved. Nas came through the Wu Tang Era, The Biggie/Pac Era/The Thug era/ The shiny suits/ The DMX type era/Bling Bling Era..and now the snap era and he's still making good music and having success.

comparing the above to Jay. Who is better in your opinion?

 

[FJP]

I dont know where it is because I never tried. But cats on here put polls in their posts so its there somewhere.

as far as Rakim being the GOAT.

First i want to say...that Nas can be at the top of any list or top 3 and it could be legitimate. I just prefer putting Rakim there for the following reason..i have more.. but I dont want to spend much time with this shit.

1. He changed the face of hip-hop. He ushered that whole multi-syllabic lyricism and internal rhyme scheme to the game. It did not even exist before him. His wordplay is top notch. I love Nas, but he has done nothing to CHANGE the game. He has come with heat... but never game-changing heat.


2. You mentioned timeless. Man. I still put in Paid in Full and it still is that fire...same as the first time I listened to it. I can listen to a Rakim track and it sounds like it was made just yesterday dude was so ahead of his time.

3. Even if you dont call Rakim the GOAT, you would probably agree he was the most influential. He fathered a whole new era.

Nas dropped a hip hop classic... and the album I have probably listened to more than any other album: Illmatic.. but he has dropped his fair share of hot trash as well... Nastradamus immediately comes to mind. Plus man..I dont think Nas has ever been hotter than on his first album. He has a lot of hot songs and good albums.. but like Jay Z.. he peeked on his first album.. I cant call him the greatest if all his work after his first album doesnt live up to the first work.

Rakim has not had the commercial success of Nas... but I think just on being an MC.. I would go with Rakim

What I mean by timeless is that if it dropped today or 10 years after it dropped would it still be popular? Like thats why I say It was written is a better album than Illmatic. If I ruled the world or Street Dreams could drop RIGHT now and have some kind of success. The Message and I gave you power would be nice right now. I gave you power would still be one of the most creative joints out. Black Girl Lost could be a hit right now. I cant think of any Ra shit that would be nice and on top of that successful right now.

Personally I think LL is the most influential cat from that era or RUN DMC, and possibly Fresh Prince. Those were the first dudes that appealed a large scale and made people realize hip hop could be a huge genre. Far as MC's Rakim wasnt near the first cat on that 5 percent shit, he was just the nicest with it. But cats like Justice came before Ra dropping science...

 

[FJP]

comparing the above to Jay. Who is better in your opinion?

Nas better lyricist Jay Z better rapper.

 

[jiggylo09]

FJP All cars are inspired by Ford You think if there was no Rakim would Nas be as good as he is....ur key word is inspired Nas admits all the time he was inspired by Rakim and era's do have something to do about it!! What was the most things Nas was talking about teks and hustling!! He was glorifying the era he grew up in!!!! Like I always say Do Your Home Work!!!!

 

[jiggylo09]

Hey FJP research this what Flow Nas has better than this!!!!







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[hotair]

I mean seriously why would Nas say he's better than Rakim even if he feels it? Thats not the "hip hop" thing to do. Just like Im pretty sure Jay feels he's better than Big now but he doesnt say it.

Why would he call him the GOAT if he didn't mean it? That's not something you say just to say it.

Nas is one of my favorite MC today (the other one is The GZA), but Rah is my favorite of all time. The way he changed the game was so monumental that it would be hard to put anybody else on top of him. Even though hip hop as changed since Paid In Full, it hasn't changed to the degree or level that Rakim changed it.

 

[shadowlurker]

rakim then scareface....the rest are just hip hop stars.... i like mc's....

black ice & black thought just smacked the bob out of my hand!!!

 

[jiggylo09]

More Home work for FJP Listen to the begining verse where he says "He learned street talk and taught the whole NY"!!





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[hotair]

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[hotair]

This is the first track I ever heard Rakim on. After the first verse I was ready to rewind. It was like, "what did he say?" A true lyricist, indeed.

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[jiggylo09]

More Home Work.........





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[Spectrum]

What I mean by timeless is that if it dropped today or 10 years after it dropped would it still be popular? Like thats why I say It was written is a better album than Illmatic. If I ruled the world or Street Dreams could drop RIGHT now and have some kind of success. The Message and I gave you power would be nice right now. I gave you power would still be one of the most creative joints out. Black Girl Lost could be a hit right now. I cant think of any Ra shit that would be nice and on top of that successful right now.

Personally I think LL is the most influential cat from that era or RUN DMC, and possibly Fresh Prince. Those were the first dudes that appealed a large scale and made people realize hip hop could be a huge genre. Far as MC's Rakim wasnt near the first cat on that 5 percent shit, he was just the nicest with it. But cats like Justice came before Ra dropping science...

FJP,

I think you are getting my argument or others confused. When I mean influential.. I am not talking POP CULTURE influence. I am talking about being influential in terms of... influential over other rappers.. in terms of fathering their styles.. being the Idol of rappers. People respect LL or Run DMC because they made hip-hop popular.. but rappers rarely state they influenced their rapping style or consider them top notch lyricists. However, all the great rappers usually refer to Rakim if you ask them who had the the influence on their rapping style. That is real influence. He influenced all the artists putting the music out in the first place.Even Nas says Rakim was his lyrical idol.

 

[FJP]

FJP All cars are inspired by Ford You think if there was no Rakim would Nas be as good as he is....ur key word is inspired Nas admits all the time he was inspired by Rakim and era's do have something to do about it!! What was the most things Nas was talking about teks and hustling!! He was glorifying the era he grew up in!!!! Like I always say Do Your Home Work!!!!

Homework? ...Man please. All cars are inspired by Ford, but does that mean the Model T is the best car of all time? No it just means it was the first. Inspiration, you act like anybody who's any good at anything doesnt strive to be the best. Do you really think Nas picked the Mic up thinking "Damn I want to be the best except for Rakim"...No you strive to be the best period. He took Inspiration from Rakim and put his own style into and made his own. There is no homework to do, both glorified their era so whats your point. Im talking about flow, lyrics, concepts and complexity you can compare that all day and how you can say Nas isnt as least equal befuddles me..

 

[FJP]

FJP,

I think you are getting my argument or others confused. When I mean influential.. I am not talking POP CULTURE influence. I am talking about being influential in terms of... influential over other rappers.. in terms of fathering their styles.. being the Idol of rappers. People respect LL or Run DMC because they made hip-hop popular.. but rappers rarely state they influenced their rapping style or consider them top notch lyricists. However, all the great rappers usually refer to Rakim if you ask them who had the the influence on their rapping style. That is real influence. He influenced all the artists putting the music out in the first place.Even Nas says Rakim was his lyrical idol.

I was talking about overall influence, in terms of other rappers yeah I'd day Rakim but once again because a man idolizes another does not mean that he cant be better. Jordan Idolized Dr. J yet people put Jordan above Dr.J, Jordan has never said he was better than Dr. J. People using "Even Nas says it as a crutch".. Its a matter of respect in all forms that you respect those before you. You dont think Jordan thinks he's better than J? But he didnt say it.

 

[FJP]

Hey FJP research this what Flow Nas has better than this!!!!

I'd take a few joints on illmatic over this track...I'd take Nas is like, the Message..... Definitely New York State of Mind.

 

[Spectrum]

I was talking about overall influence, in terms of other rappers yeah I'd day Rakim but once again because a man idolizes another does not mean that he cant be better. Jordan Idolized Dr. J yet people put Jordan above Dr.J, Jordan has never said he was better than Dr. J. People using "Even Nas says it as a crutch".. Its a matter of respect in all forms that you respect those before you. You dont think Jordan thinks he's better than J? But he didnt say it.

Im not surprised you used the Jordan and Dr. J example because it came to mind. But you cant make that comparison. Jordan is without a doubt the best to ever play the game of basketball. Hardly any all time great, journalist, sports historian, etc would argue against it. Jordan may be the greatest athlete of all time period. I understand your point.. but this is just a bad example.

 

[hotair]

I was talking about overall influence, in terms of other rappers yeah I'd day Rakim but once again because a man idolizes another does not mean that he cant be better. Jordan Idolized Dr. J yet people put Jordan above Dr.J, Jordan has never said he was better than Dr. J. People using "Even Nas says it as a crutch".. Its a matter of respect in all forms that you respect those before you. You dont think Jordan thinks he's better than J? But he didnt say it.

Jordan didn't say that Dr. J was the GOAT either. When somebody says that it has meaning because while you may consider somebody great, putting OF ALL TIME behind it raises them to a level above ALL others. If Nas didn't believe that Rakim was the GOAT he could have just called him an idol or one of his favorite emcees. You don't call somebody that just to flatter them. There's a huge difference in saying, 'one of the GOAT' and 'THE GOAT'.

 

[FJP]

And since you and hot air keep bringing up this so called "Homework" that you got off YouTube...Answer this question for me.


Name a track in which Rakim has the conceptual Brilliance of a Rewind or I Gave you power, or the deepness of a New York State of Mind...Insightful Rhyming about oneself like Nas is like?...

I'll give it to him Ra was a beast in HIS time but All time now that I think about it you cant really compare him to Nas. Nas is like Rakim on steroids. Nas is a fully evolved Rakim. Nas is more well rounded as an MC as Rakim ever was. Nas can still be lyrical rapping about a bowl of cereal.

 

[Spectrum]

More Home work for FJP Listen to the begining verse where he says "He learned street talk and taught the whole NY"!!





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who can spit on that beat like that..

 

[hotair]

And since you and hot air keep bringing up this so called "Homework" that you got off YouTube...Answer this question for me.


Name a track in which Rakim has the conceptual Brilliance of a Rewind or I Gave you power, or the deepness of a New York State of Mind...Insightful Rhyming about oneself like Nas is like?...

I'll give it to him Ra was a beast in HIS time but All time now that I think about it you cant really compare him to Nas. Nas is like Rakim on steroids. Nas is a fully evolved Rakim. Nas is more well rounded as an MC as Rakim ever was. Nas can still be lyrical rapping about a bowl of cereal.

You couldn't have been around when Paid In Full dropped, because it was the album that changed hip hop. Rewind, while a groundbreaking work, didn't change that game. Nas is a creative cat, but he hasn't changed hip hop.