mvp 3 times consecutively - does steve nash have a case?

[cranrab]

PART I

in 2005, i would not have voted for steve nash. that doesn't mean he didn't deserve it, just that i probably would've given the knod to tim duncan. TD averaged a double double, and lead the spurs to yet another 50+ win regular season. and even though the playoffs aren't supposed to figure into the regular season MVP award, TD and the spurs almost swept steve nash and the suns out of the playoffs on his way to another NBA FINALS championship.

but steve nash was a legit candidate. the suns changed coaches from coach johnson to coach d'antoni. three starters returned in amare stoudemire, shawn marion and joe johnson. the suns went from 29 wins to 62 wins (albeit in the WORSTern conference) in a single season with steve nash at PG. the suns went from no playoffs to the WCF in a single season with steve nash at PG. like TD, steve nash averaged a double double on the season, and i think he also shot 50% FGAs. moreover, he picked up his productivity in the playoffs. although i disagreed, it was conceivable.

in 2006, the field of candidates was thin. shaquille o'neal did not make the ballot, largely because he missed 23 regular season games. strange how bill walton won MVP in 1978 even though he missed 24 regular season games. TD was consistent, and lead the spurs to another 50+ win regular season, but his productivity declined.

meanwhile, steve nash averaged a double double again, while also increasing his scoring AND rebounding averages. the suns finished with fewer wins, but many attributed that to injury (amare stoudemire, kurt thomas) and roster changes (joe johnson, quentin richardson)

again, post-season performances are not supposed to be factored into consideration for the regular season MVP, but steve nash lead the suns past a legit candidate in elton brand and the clippers, and a faux candidate in tobe and the fakers.

i agreed that steve nash was the natural choice (given the field of candidates) for 2006 MVP and had no problem with the selection.

 

[cranrab]

PART II

2007 is drawing to a close and we're hearing a lot of noise coming from mark cuban's PR machine about dirk nowitzki.

aside from being a euro, dirk nowitzki has never been a legit MVP candidate to me. unlike TD or steve nash, dirk nowitzki has NEVER averaged a double double in any season.

did he ever engineer a single season turnaround like steve nash did in phoenix?
NO. in fact, as a starter his rookie season 1999, the mavericks went 9-15 (.380).

in 2000, dirk nowitzki played in all 82 games, and the mavericks finished with a losing record 40-42 (.490). dirk nowitzki was not the difference maker. who was? teammate steve nash, who started only 27 games that season. what was the mavericks record over those 27 games? 19-8 (.700)

in 2001, steve nash moved into the full time starting ranks, and the mavericks became a winning club an completed a 50+ win season. the mavericks also went to the playoffs. steve nash was the key, not dirk nowitzki.

2002 and 2003 was more of the same. the mavericks made incremental improvements both season in regular season wins and advancing deeper into the playoffs. by 2004, the mavericks reached their collaborative end. the regular season wins fell, and they were bounced from the playoffs in the first round.

the return of the mavericks franchise in 2005 and 2006 are due primarily to jason terry (as much as i hate to admit that), josh howard, and erick dampier (yes, even him).

currently, the mavericks are on pace for a 69 win season (albeit in the WORSTern conference) but is this another instance of been-there done-that? dirk nowitzki still isn't averaging a double double, and jason terry, josh howard and erick dampier are still getting it done rebounding and on D.

 

[cranrab]

PART III

which brings us back to steve nash. he's averaging a double double again, and the suns are on pace to win 62 games.

shaquille o'neal has been out injured for much of the season, so unless the heat go 23-0 the rest of the way, i don't see him making the ballot. (does anyone else see the heat finishing the season 43-29?

TD is averaging a double double too, and on pace to win 57 games, so i'm sure tim duncan will have his name on the ballot by season end.

but are there any other legit candidates to round out the field? perhaps young guys like chris bosh or carlos boozer? maybe if jason kidd, kevin garnett or zach randolph were on winning clubs, i could see them being added, but they're doubtful.

so doesn't it look like steve nash is on his way to joining larry bird, wilt chamberlain and bill russell as the only players to win 3 consecutive NBA MVP awards?

 

[Rollie_Fingaz]

Dirk should not be nominated MVP. He sucks as a franchise player. Jason Terry is the one that is carrying the team.

Michael Finley did all the work, including hitting game winning shots. But Dirk got all the credit.

I would have no problem having Nash as MVP..but you have to consider Boozer.

 

[RunawaySlave]

Nash as MVP....Dirk as MVP.....

the NBA awards have become purely superficial.
Nash is a nice unselfish player, an accurate passer
(pay attention Steph) and knows to get his big
men involved, but he is only an asset on one side
of the court

Dirk, I'm not even gonna go there....Quite possibly
the most pussified 7 footer to ever play for THIS
long a period of time. The best big man on Dallas
is JOSH HOWARD


all this is merely propaganda. To get whites in Canada
and across the world to take interest in Auctioneer
Stern's product.

The NBA isn't about basketball players anymore. It's
about billionaire owners getting as much as possible.
There's more money in the THEATER of the NBA then
there would be in actual games. Hence all the acting
going on in every single game

 

[xfactor]

As mentioned earlier, if Nash wins a third consecutive MVP, he'll enter legendary status as only Wilt Chamberlain, Larry Bird, and Bill Russell have accomplished that feat.

On the flip side, Nash is already in a a class of his own.

Steve Nash (along with Kevin Garnett) are the only MVPs in NBA History that have not led their teams to the NBA Finals

Is that a testament of how much better teams have gotten? Or how far the prestige of award has fallen?

 

[SpiritualPorn]

As mentioned earlier, if Nash wins a third consecutive MVP, he'll enter legendary status as only Wilt Chamberlain, Larry Bird, and Bill Russell have accomplished that feat.

On the flip side, Nash is already in a a class of his own.

Steve Nash (along with Kevin Garnett) are the only MVPs in NBA History that have not led their teams to the NBA Finals

Is that a testament of how much better teams have gotten? Or how far the prestige of award has fallen?

How far the award has fallen

Steve Nash is a defensive liability,,,...period

Jirk is ...like runaway said,....pussified and weak....

Boozer......I have always liked his game.....MVP..I think not

Duncan, Shaq, Wade, Nash,......

This mess could have been avoided if it was given to a deserving Shaq in 05

 

[SpiritualPorn]

Nash as MVP....Dirk as MVP.....

the NBA awards have become purely superficial.
Nash is a nice unselfish player, an accurate passer
(pay attention Steph) and knows to get his big
men involved, but he is only an asset on one side
of the court

Dirk, I'm not even gonna go there....Quite possibly
the most pussified 7 footer to ever play for THIS
long a period of time. The best big man on Dallas
is JOSH HOWARD


all this is merely propaganda. To get whites in Canada
and across the world to take interest in Auctioneer
Stern's product.

The NBA isn't about basketball players anymore. It's
about billionaire owners getting as much as possible.
There's more money in the THEATER of the NBA then
there would be in actual games. Hence all the acting
going on in every single game

Larry Bird said about four or five years ago that the NBA needed a white superstar........

Now we have Dirk and Nash vying for the MVP.............

You hit it right on the head

 

[RunawaySlave]

Larry Bird said about four or five years ago that the NBA needed a white superstar........

Now we have Dirk and Nash vying for the MVP.............

You hit it right on the head

Don't be cruel....Dirk is a pioneer.
The first 7'1" SHOOTING GUARD in history

 

[cranrab]

you all are just haters...

dirk's Q4 performance was simply tobe-like.

with under a minute, we saw dirk miss a FT, foul an opponent behind the 3 pt line, and miss another FT again. if dirk had made a couple more TOs and a couple more PFs in the final 60 seconds, he'd be the greatest player in the game.

 

[Spectrum]

How far the award has fallen

Steve Nash is a defensive liability,,,...period

Jirk is ...like runaway said,....pussified and weak....

Boozer......I have always liked his game.....MVP..I think not

Duncan, Shaq, Wade, Nash,......

This mess could have been avoided if it was given to a deserving Shaq in 05

I had a big debate about this a with a friend of mine. He said Nash was in the top 5 point guards of all-time. I almost choked on my food and died. I like the game of Nash.. he is an excellent passer and runs the point as a point guard should. However, he stand outs not because of his unrivaled ability, but because fundamentally the position has been eroded by the lack of fundamentals and shoot-first mentality (Marbury,etc). Move him back an era, he doesnt even start on the all star team...in the West over Magic.. in the East over Thomas . Considering he has not even been to the finals, you would think maybe people are making that claim based on stats. However, Nash is not in the top 60 of all time for either points, assists, or steals...just because he might win 3 consecutive MVP trophies doesnt meet shit to me...who is going to knock of the list.. Oscar, Magic, Thomas, Stockton, Cousy, etc.

These damn kids today...

Like you said, he is also a defensive liability.

Excellent player..however I think he current status is more of a testament to how much the league has fallen off in my opinion...especially at the point guard position.

 

[SpiritualPorn]

I had a big debate about this a with a friend of mine. He said Nash was in the top 5 point guards of all-time. I almost choked on my food and died. I like the game of Nash.. he is an excellent passer and runs the point as a point guard should. However, he stand outs not because of his unrivaled ability, but because fundamentally the position has been eroded by the lack of fundamentals and shoot-first mentality (Marbury,etc). Move him back an era, he doesnt even start on the all star team...in the West over Magic.. in the East over Thomas . Considering he has not even been to the finals, you would think maybe people are making that claim based on stats. However, Nash is not in the top 60 of all time for either points, assists, or steals...just because he might win 3 consecutive MVP trophies doesnt meet shit to me...who is going to knock of the list.. Oscar, Magic, Thomas, Stockton, Cousy, etc.

These damn kids today...

Like you said, he is also a defensive liability.

Excellent player..however I think he current status is more of a testament to how much the league has fallen off in my opinion...especially at the point guard position.

I used to be like that as a kid....thinking the greatest thing I have seen is the greatest thing available......

I once said (please don't get on me) that Mark Clayton is better than Lynn Swaan.....................about 3 old school dudes got on my shit and I shut the fuck up...........

Thats what I see today.......Steve is nice however the position has become different...........stats = contract money......guys jumping from HS to Pros.....a very different game....

That being said we have more youth and athleticism to view......better individual efforts and worse teams?.......

 

[SpiritualPorn]

you all are just haters...

dirk's Q4 performance was simply tobe-like.

with under a minute, we saw dirk miss a FT, foul an opponent behind the 3 pt line, and miss another FT again. if dirk had made a couple more TOs and a couple more PFs in the final 60 seconds, he'd be the greatest player in the game.

 

[RunawaySlave]

I had a big debate about this a with a friend of mine. He said Nash was in the top 5 point guards of all-time. I almost choked on my food and died. I like the game of Nash.. he is an excellent passer and runs the point as a point guard should. However, he stand outs not because of his unrivaled ability, but because fundamentally the position has been eroded by the lack of fundamentals and shoot-first mentality (Marbury,etc). Move him back an era, he doesnt even start on the all star team...in the West over Magic.. in the East over Thomas . Considering he has not even been to the finals, you would think maybe people are making that claim based on stats. However, Nash is not in the top 60 of all time for either points, assists, or steals...just because he might win 3 consecutive MVP trophies doesnt meet shit to me...who is going to knock of the list.. Oscar, Magic, Thomas, Stockton, Cousy, etc.

These damn kids today...

Like you said, he is also a defensive liability.

Excellent player..however I think he current status is more of a testament to how much the league has fallen off in my opinion...especially at the point guard position.

Good breakdown. I remember when Phoenix drafted this guy,
then basically handed the job over to him over Kevin Johnson.
You just knew KJ could lite him up, but were resigned to the
fact that affirmative action was talking place (in a position
considered to be a luxury)

The point guard position has been going downhill since the days
when Mike Fratello had Doc Rivers at the point. Coaches have
been drafting SGs to man the point ever since. Putting obvious
SGs and even SFs at the point instead of creative cats who
know what "penetration" means

The erosion of the skill part of the game was further exacerbated
when Riley had Xavier McDaniel, a PF play at the SF. Later, he
would put other PFs like Anthony Mason and Charles Smith there
as well. Now we have PFs trying to play the point and centers
who take more 25 footers than layups (Nitwitski, Bargnani)

 

[Spectrum]

Good breakdown. I remember when Phoenix drafted this guy,
then basically handed the job over to him over Kevin Johnson.
You just knew KJ could lite him up, but were resigned to the
fact that affirmative action was talking place (in a position
considered to be a luxury)

The point guard position has been going downhill since the days
when Mike Fratello had Doc Rivers at the point. Coaches have
been drafting SGs to man the point ever since. Putting obvious
SGs and even SFs at the point instead of creative cats who
know what "penetration" means

The erosion of the skill part of the game was further exacerbated
when Riley had Xavier McDaniel, a PF play at the SF. Later, he
would put other PFs like Anthony Mason and Charles Smith there
as well. Now we have PFs trying to play the point and centers
who take more 25 footers than layups (Nitwitski, Bargnani)

Co-sign all of this. I distinctly remember when Xavier McDaniel played a year in Detroit and he was out of position as well.. I was damn near every game night.

 

[Spectrum]

That being said we have more youth and athleticism to view......better individual efforts and worse teams?.......

I definitely think the teams are not as strong in this current generation. Go back to the 80s and 90s when you had the Celtics, Pistons, Lakers, etc that had starting 5s that they used to run with every year. Those teams distinctly stand out as squads that had the same starting 5 with no changes for several consecutive seasons...creating great chemistry and big-time rivalry.You do not see it as much now.

We definitely see more athleticism...however, I still have a question in regards to the overall talent pool being better....i mean..some of these guys can do a two handed 360 on the fast break...but they cant make a freethrow to save their lives. If you shoot 80 percent from the free throw line now..you are considered a great free throw shooter..that was almost the norm in the past..even with the big men. For a guard to shoot 50 percent from the field was normal...even players that took a lot of shots (jordan) still shot over 50 percent in a league that was definitely more physical and team defense was at its best...however, players now (kobe, iverson) dont even get close. Kobe for instance is a career 45 percent shooter...Iverson is a career 42 percent shooter Seriously, this current style of play is a perversion of the game IMHO. That is what I have a hard time watching it.. players like Nowitski, McGrady, Bryant... just dont appeal to me..they are lazy defenders and often play out of position on both sides of the ball

 

[jlred39000]

no offense to anyone, but all these walks down memory lane are sick!! the game has changed so much in just the last ten years that its like comparing apples to oranges. physical prowess, money, and the evolution of the game has turned basketball into more than just a sport. If we wanna start remembering shit, let's remember how mike and zeke, or magic and bird use to go at each other to prove who was the illest!!! bet kobe won't guard mellow, or bron bron! niggas is too scared to lose there sneaker deal!!! nash is legit, but if we going by players who impact the team.... chris bosh is doing wonders for the raptors.

 

[cranrab]

nba.com partner/sponsor lenovo keeps a stat page for player +/-.

in many of my threads (particularly the ones regarding tobe), i have personally used the +/- to illustrate (and emphasize) my point about the myth of tobe's significance.

for those unfamiliar with the concept of +/-, lenovo offers this very simple explanation:

The Lenovo Stat is a plus/minus statistic that looks at the point differential when players are both in and out of the game

one interesting thing that lenovo provides is the ability to see which combination of players on any team is the most effective according to +/- data.

in choosing an MVP, i would suggest that voters heavily weigh this player information.

not surprisingly, tim duncan is #1. steve nash was #3. tobe? not even in the top 50.



here's the link:

http://www.nba.com/statistics/lenovo/lenovo_sort.jsp?pcomb=1&season=22006&split=9&team=

 

[TrojansFan]

nba.com partner/sponsor lenovo keeps a stat page for player +/-.

in many of my threads (particularly the ones regarding tobe), i have personally used the +/- to illustrate (and emphasize) my point about the myth of tobe's significance.

for those unfamiliar with the concept of +/-, lenovo offers this very simple explanation:

The Lenovo Stat is a plus/minus statistic that looks at the point differential when players are both in and out of the game

one interesting thing that lenovo provides is the ability to see which combination of players on any team is the most effective according to +/- data.

in choosing an MVP, i would suggest that voters heavily weigh this player information.

not surprisingly, tim duncan is #1. steve nash was #3. tobe? not even in the top 50.



here's the link:

http://www.nba.com/statistics/lenovo/lenovo_sort.jsp?pcomb=1&season=22006&split=9&team=

Contrary to your biased rants... this data proves that Kobe is the MVP of Lakers! His +/- is the highest on the Lakers team!!!

 

[cranrab]

Contrary to your biased rants... this data proves that Kobe is the MVP of Lakers! His +/- is the highest on the Lakers team!!!

hello armenian.

tim duncan = highest on his team AND highest +/- IN THE LEAGUE.

tobe = NOT IN THE TOP 50.

*yawn*

where's that URL for the "armenian website" you claimed to have googled?



BNOL is that way, simp.

 

[cranrab]

Contrary to your biased rants... this data proves that Kobe is the MVP of Lakers! His +/- is the highest on the Lakers team!

whatever your ethnic origin may be, you are an EMBARASSMENT to the rest.

and the value of the degree you claim to hold is worth LESS THAN the toilet paper i used LAST MONTH.

not an insult. that is the TRUTH, in all honesty.

why?

because what EDUCATED PERSON IN ANY FIELD could look at the fakers' +/- data and reach the same conclusion as you UNLESS THEY WERE A COMPLETE AND UTTER MORON?

here's the link: http://www.nba.com/statistics/lenovo/lenovo_sort.jsp?pcomb=1&season=22006&split=9&team=Lakers

of the 7 fakers players with A POSITIVE +/- result, tobe is only the 4th highest, behind kwame brown, brian cook and lamar odom. between lamar odom and tobe, lamar odom has the higher +/- result.

we already knew you were a liar because of that bullshit "armenian website" claim, and now you've proven yourself to be a certified imbecile.

 

[TrojansFan]

whatever your ethnic origin may be, you are an EMBARASSMENT to the rest.

and the value of the degree you claim to hold is worth LESS THAN the toilet paper i used LAST MONTH.

not an insult. that is the TRUTH, in all honesty.

why?

because what EDUCATED PERSON IN ANY FIELD could look at the fakers' +/- data and reach the same conclusion as you UNLESS THEY WERE A COMPLETE AND UTTER MORON?

here's the link: http://www.nba.com/statistics/lenovo/lenovo_sort.jsp?pcomb=1&season=22006&split=9&team=Lakers

of the 7 fakers players with A POSITIVE +/- result, tobe is only the 4th highest, behind kwame brown, brian cook and lamar odom. between lamar odom and tobe, lamar odom has the higher +/- result.

we already knew you were a liar because of that bullshit "armenian website" claim, and now you've proven yourself to be a certified imbecile.

Ok, either YOU are the IDIOT or YOU or just making up shit!!!
per the data from from your link...

Lakers players +/- season totals

1) K. Bryant 102
2) L. Odom 77
3) B. Cook 77
4) K. Brown 73
5) R. Turiaf 18
6) J. Farmar 13
7) L. Walton 11
8) M. Evans -4
9) A. McKie -13
10) S. Williams -29
11) S. Vujacic -48
12) S. Parker -82
13) V. Radmanovic -111
14) A. Bynum -114

Your obsession is sad.
Kobe and Lakers' season is over. Find something else to talk about NOW!!!

 

[cranrab]

Ok, either YOU are the IDIOT or YOU or just making up shit!!!
per the data from from your link...

Lakers players +/- season totals

1) K. Bryant 102
2) L. Odom 77
3) B. Cook 77
4) K. Brown 73
5) R. Turiaf 18
6) J. Farmar 13
7) L. Walton 11
8) M. Evans -4
9) A. McKie -13
10) S. Williams -29
11) S. Vujacic -48
12) S. Parker -82
13) V. Radmanovic -111
14) A. Bynum -114

Your obsession is sad.

*yawn*

.075 - brian cook
.064 - kwame brown
.034 - lamar odom
.032 - tobe

this proves without a shadow of a doubt that your advanced "degree" is not in any of the hard sciences, because you clearly have NO grasp of statistical relevance. your USELESS reference to season totals is irrelevant because of games played. rational thinkers therefore MUST accept the per minute played averages.

your poor logic has proven that you can NOT be an attorney or a philsophy major.

ah, a music or perhaps art history major. got it.

 

[TrojansFan]

Your obsession is sad.

*yawn*

.075 - brian cook
.064 - kwame brown
.034 - lamar odom
.032 - tobe

this proves without a shadow of a doubt that your advanced "degree" is not in any of the hard sciences, because you clearly have NO grasp of statistical relevance. your USELESS reference to season totals is irrelevant because of games played. rational thinkers therefore MUST accept the per minute played averages.

your poor logic has proven that you can NOT be an attorney or a philsophy major.

ah, a music or perhaps art history major. got it.

NOW WITHOUT A DOUBT YOU ARE PROVING YOUR BIAS AND THAT YOU ARE A FLAT OUT LAIR!!!

First of all, you do not need to adjust +/- based on minutes played (because even if a player has logged more minutes during a season they have the same potential for points scored against - as they do points scored for +). It is why lenovo sorts the results based on +/- (not +/- per min, which they don't even give an option to sort on that stat). Are you really trying to suggest Brian Cook is more valuable to the Lakers than Bryant or Odom??

Second, I know you are lying because in your first post when you identified this source you said Duncan is #1 & Nash is #3! That means you were using straight +/-. Not the adjusted per minute shit you want to use just to evaluate Kobe. If you were using +/- per minute Duncan would not be #1 and Nash would not be #3 on the list!!!

EXPOSED!!!!

 

[cranrab]

NOW WITHOUT A DOUBT YOU ARE PROVING YOUR BIAS AND THAT YOU ARE A FLAT OUT LAIR!!!

First of all, you do not need to adjust +/- based on minutes played (because even if a player has logged more minutes during a season they have the same potential for points scored against - as they do points scored for +). It is why lenovo sorts the results based on +/- (not +/- per min, which they don't even give an option to sort on that stat).

wow. blind AND stupid. i almost feel bad for exposing your near impossible level of stupidity.

someone contact the national enquirer, because i've discovered THE MISSING LINK!

look here, armenian. the seventh column (from the left) is +/- per minute. you know, the very statistic you say lenovo doesn't sort for.

Second, I know you are lying because in your first post when you identified this source you said Duncan is #1 & Nash is #3! That means you were using straight +/-. Not the adjusted per minute shit you want to use just to evaluate Kobe. If you were using +/- per minute Duncan would not be #1 and Nash would not be #3 on the list

so sad.

i know you're shook, so i'll give you a minute to collect yourself and get your story straight. in your first paragraph you insist that lenovo DOES NOT sort for +/- per minute. yet in your very next paragraph, you now insist thate lenovo DOES sort for +/- per minute.



get off your mama's tinker toy computer and get yourself a monitor that will show the entire screen, son.

next, in response to your foolishness.

were you able to correctly read english, in my post i said that +/- data should be heavily weighed in consideration of an MVP candidate. that includes total +/- AND per minute +/-.

your inability to grasp the concept of +/- is clear and changes nothing. tim duncan is #1 in total +/- AND per minute +/-. tobe is not in the top 50 for total +/- OR per minute +/-. now go cry some more.

i next responded when you couldn't contain your downlow fanboy nature and for some inexplicable reason wanted to up tobe: talking some nonsense about how the +/- indicates tobe is the MVP of the fakers. clearly, the data indicates nothing of the kind. in fact, the data indicts tobe for NOT being able to significantly contribute to the fakers' success. remember: scoring the ball is only 1 side of the game.



where's that "armenian website" URL again?

 

[TrojansFan]

wow. blind AND stupid. i almost feel bad for exposing your near impossible level of stupidity.

someone contact the national enquirer, because i've discovered THE MISSING LINK!

look here, armenian. the seventh column (from the left) is +/- per minute. you know, the very statistic you say lenovo doesn't sort for.





so sad.

i know you're shook, so i'll give you a minute to collect yourself and get your story straight. in your first paragraph you insist that lenovo DOES NOT sort for +/- per minute. yet in your very next paragraph, you now insist thate lenovo DOES sort for +/- per minute.



get off your mama's tinker toy computer and get yourself a monitor that will show the entire screen, son.

next, in response to your foolishness.

were you able to correctly read english, in my post i said that +/- data should be heavily weighed in consideration of an MVP candidate. that includes total +/- AND per minute +/-.

your inability to grasp the concept of +/- is clear and changes nothing. tim duncan is #1 in total +/- AND per minute +/-. tobe is not in the top 50 for total +/- OR per minute +/-. now go cry some more.

i next responded when you couldn't contain your downlow fanboy nature and for some inexplicable reason wanted to up tobe: talking some nonsense about how the +/- indicates tobe is the MVP of the fakers. clearly, the data indicates nothing of the kind. in fact, the data indicts tobe for NOT being able to significantly contribute to the fakers' success. remember: scoring the ball is only 1 side of the game.



where's that "armenian website" URL again?

StILL LYING HUH?

I didn't say there wasn't a column for +/- per min. I said you can't sort the results based on that stat. And you can't! Maybe you should recheck your english and what the word "sort" means. Second, Duncan IS NOT #1 in +/- per min!!! Because you can't sort that stat you didn't realize there were more players than what shows up when the data is sorted to show the top players based on just +/-!!!

Wait, let me get it straight initially you said +/- (the data you posted in support of Duncan as MVP) should be considering when evaluating an MVP, then I showed that Kobe leads the Lakers in that stat, then you said you can't look at +/- you need to look at +/- per min (the data you provided in support of Cook as Lakers MVP), then when i pointed out the inconsistency in your posts, now you are saying you need to look at both +/- and +/- per minute!

Nobody is buying your bullshit on this one!!!

 

[Spectrum]

StILL LYING HUH?

I didn't say there wasn't a column for +/- per min. I said you can't sort the results based on that stat. And you can't! Maybe you should recheck your english and what the word "sort" means. Second, Duncan IS NOT #1 in +/- per min!!! Because you can't sort that stat you didn't realize there were more players than what shows up when the data is sorted to show the top players based on just +/-!!!

Wait, let me get it straight initially you said +/- (the data you posted in support of Duncan as MVP) should be considering when evaluating an MVP, then I showed that Kobe leads the Lakers in that stat, then you said you can't look at +/- you need to look at +/- per min (the data you provided in support of Cook as Lakers MVP), then when i pointed out the inconsistency in your posts, now you are saying you need to look at both +/- and +/- per minute!

Nobody is buying your bullshit on this one!!!

I'm not getting involved with this argument. I am not going to sort the list completely and sort all the .. but quickly looking at the list.

Duncan leads in both overall +/- ( 760) and minutes +/- ( .278) unless I'm not reading the chart correctly

 

[cranrab]

StILL LYING HUH?

that's rich.

a pathetic excuse of a wo/man who had to concoct a story about googling his own username and referred to a non-existent "armenian website" is going to call someone else a "liar".

 

[Spectrum]

On another note. Have yall crunched those +/- stats for the playoffs?

 

[cranrab]

Duncan leads in both overall +/- ( 760) and minutes +/- ( .278) unless I'm not reading the chart correctly

you read it correctly.

but the SPORTS board's most deluded member was overcome by a jealous fit of rage and couldn't stand the fact that tobe wasn't even in the top 50 of either overall or per minute categories.

apparently HBCUs are in the practice of conferring advanced degrees and bestowing academic honors upon individuals with serious character flaws.

 

[TrojansFan]

I'm not getting involved with this argument. I am not going to sort the list completely and sort all the .. but quickly looking at the list.

Duncan leads in both overall +/- ( 760) and minutes +/- ( .278) unless I'm not reading the chart correctly

eewwll,

as i mentioned the chart you are reading has the leaders sorted by +/-, it is only showing you the top players sorted by that stat. If it let you sort by +/- per min you would see a whole different list of players (it doesnt let you sort by that because it is a meaningless statistic). But if you sort by teams you see smaller samples of players (still sorted by +/-) but you will be able to see all players +/ per min. For one, Devin Harris of the Mavericks has a higher +/- per min than Duncan, and there are others, but you get the point.

The fact the cran still believes that Duncan has the best +/- per min just goes to prove he never looked at that stat until he wanted to use it to judge Kobe!

 

[cranrab]

For one, Devin Harris of the Mavericks has a higher +/- per min than Duncan, and there are others, but you get the point.

i had a different reply prepared for eewwll, but you keep getting better and better. or rather, dumber and dumber.

first of all, devin harris does NOT have a higher +/- per minute result. can you read, simp? compare the 1st and 6th ranked players again.

oh wait. in your bizarro universe, maybe .272 IS greater than .278.

but thanks for proving MY point.

only a MORON like you would compare +/- TOTALS between 2 players who have such a large difference in games started (tim duncan = 80, devin harris = 61). so the PER MINUTE +/- adjusts for that difference and provides a more accurate result.

i'm sure that baffles you completely, but thanks again.

just one more thing. try not to blatantly lie about the data anymore.

 

[TrojansFan]

i had a different reply prepared for eewwll, but you keep getting better and better. or rather, dumber and dumber.

first of all, devin harris does NOT have a higher +/- per minute result. can you read, simp? compare the 1st and 6th ranked players again.

oh wait. in your bizarro universe, maybe .272 IS greater than .278.

but thanks for proving MY point.

only a MORON like you would compare +/- TOTALS between 2 players who have such a large difference in games started (tim duncan = 80, devin harris = 61). so the PER MINUTE +/- adjusts for that difference and provides a more accurate result.

i'm sure that baffles you completely, but thanks again.

just one more thing. try not to blatantly lie about the data anymore.

I made a mistake on Devin Harris. But I just recheck, there are two players on the Golden State Warriors with higher +/- per min than Duncan. So Duncan still does not have the highest +/- per min in the league. I agree comparing players with such large differentials in games started doesn't makes sense. So why would you compare Kobe Bryant to Brian Cook!!!

 

[TrojansFan]

THERE IS NO RATIONAL PERSON THAT CAN READ POSTS #18 - #24 AND NOT CONCLUDE THAT...

cranrab is...

A) HAS A BIAS AGAINST KOBE

&

B) IS A LIAR AND WILL CHANGE HIS STORY AND MAKE SHIT UP AS A THREAD CONTINUES

 

[cranrab]

I agree comparing players with such large differentials in games started doesn't makes sense. So why would you compare Kobe Bryant to Brian Cook!!!

*sigh*

english, motherfucker, english. read my quote below again:

only a MORON like you would compare +/- TOTALS between 2 players who have such a large difference in games started (tim duncan = 80, devin harris = 61). so the PER MINUTE +/- adjusts for that difference and provides a more accurate result.

i didn't say you couldn't compare players with large differentials in games started. i said you would be moronic to compare TOTALS. TOTALS, NOT PLAYERS.

it's perfectly FINE to compare players with large differentials in games started AS LONG AS YOU ARE USING THE PER MINUTE +/-, which adjusts for the difference in minutes played.



keep digging for a way to save face. your grave is just getting deeper. did you bother to ask yourself if those 2 warriors players qualified statistically? or did you overlook that stipulation?