Likely a Retread Topic...But Let's Talk Anyway

ClementUT

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I'm posting this topic on SOL since more females are likely to reply here than the main board. For the record I'm a married guy, full-time mechanic, and father of two so please don't assume I'm speaking on my behalf. Here is the text of what I read from another forum:

Why Women Cannot Find a Good Man

The many variables contributing to this phenomenon actually come down to overcoming one negative attribute of the female mind, which is lack of self-knowledge. If a woman does not know who she is and what her purpose and true nature is, she will never understand how to find (get) a good man.

First, let us dispel all the myths and urban legends. One, there is no shortage of Black men. Though Black men make-up 75% of the prison system, there are not as many Black men in the prison system than there are on the streets. And though statistics suggest that 1 out of 7 Black men are gay, they are only a small percentage of the general population. Again, because the marriage rate of Blacks is small, not all good Black men are married; it merely appears that way because of the female preference and wish list.

Therefore, this leaves the majority of Black men available and marriable. There are many college educated Black men, single Black men who are decent men, and many God-fearing men who want a family and would be dedicated to that family. The problem is not so much with Black men or the shortage myth, but what Black women want in their men.

Second, all too many times, women are expectant of something. They say they will settle for a man with a job, any job, but in reality, when the money is not rolling in plentiful enough to keep up with "girlfriend," the woman's true preferences show through. They then attempt to "better" their man by suggesting more schooling.

Many claim that physique is not important or looks, or size, but when time comes for public appearances, family reunions, or physical satisfaction, some how the woman comes up short. She speaks for the man in public (and society has come to expect Black women to do the talking), she makes excuses to family and friends for her man's situation, and she constantly seeks change and variety in sexuality.

Not to say that all women are like this, but those who cannot seem to find a good man would better fit this profile in more ways than one.

Next, she ignores the brother on her job that just does not spark that physical appeal in her. She is not impressed with the brother's work habits or his nerdy qualities, and she automatically looks the other way because of his lack of sex appeal and she turns to the brother who got it that way instead, yet he is the one who will treat her like a dog.

She has not understood that many men will make her a good husband if she knew what to look for instead of searching for the stereotypical qualities on her list-of-desirable men. She believes in society's definition of what a man is thus she looks for that man. He is the hunk, the bad boy, the jock, the successful, and she ignores the obvious, the nerd, the simple, the bright, the thinker, the anti-social, and the quite.

Last, women cannot find a good man because she does not know who she is and what makes her happy. Her mother told her to find a successful lawyer or doctor but her mother neglected to tell her that lawyers and doctors cheat on their wives. Her friends told her to find a man who could satisfy her sexually but they neglected to tell her that he will satisfy everyone else's sexual desires as well.

The woman's magazine told her to find a man who is sensitive and who will share the house work while she works, yet neglected to tell her that that is reverse oppression and a man will not stay down long under those circumstances.

She has the excuses; she has tried this man and that, but has come to the conclusion that all men are dogs. One problem with that is, if all the men she tried were dogs in her book, then her attempt to train him was a failure. This leads into the drama of what women want.

The mind games, the control factor, and the unrealistic expectations of women have gone beyond that of reality and into the fanatical.

Women first read the man through and then try him in many areas to test his stability. This is a mistake because if she has to test him then she is expecting something other than a real relationship. She is also putting in jeopardy the potential of a relationship from the beginning.

The games, the games, the mind games. The woman then has to gain control. She first seeks out the man's weakness and when she has found it, she will either exploit it for her own benefit, because that is what she is taught by her girlfriends, or she will accept it as is and help strengthen it for her advantage in the future.

She expects sensitivity, consideration, and respect, yet if she is not sensitive, considerate or respectful of others, or herself, she will never receive those things from him. She first has to know herself before expecting this character from others to her own satisfaction.

Does she really want a family or is this something she has come to anticipate from the propaganda of American society and Hollywood. Is she going to be a good mother because many men want children but cannot handle a contentious and or perplexed woman. Thus we have many single mothers.

Not to say that men have it all together, but when women complain about not being able to find a good man, they must first understand what a good man is and what to expect from him. She must also know how to give that which is good to the man if she wants to keep him and call him her own.


So ladies (and bruhs) of BGOL, what do you think?
 
Nice post. Me and the ladies always talk about this. I have always said there are plenty of good guys out there. I can only give my view point based on my 8 years of dating experience :) It seems like young black men & women are scared. We are scared to give each other a chance, we are scared that we will end up with a dud, we are scared to completely trust one another, and we are scared of commitment. We have too many stupid expectations instead of being realistic ("oh my man/woman needs to make $100,000 or more", she needs such & such level of education). I know a lot of good working men who I would love to date, but there is something that holds them back once we go beyond physical attraction.

...And before anyone says I should make the first move, NO. I tried that before and a man's ego will grow so large that it is sickening. I would rather have things the way they are and let the man be the man.
 
Nice post. Me and the ladies always talk about this. I have always said there are plenty of good guys out there. I can only give my view point based on my 8 years of dating experience :) It seems like young black men & women are scared. We are scared to give each other a chance, we are scared that we will end up with a dud, we are scared to completely trust one another, and we are scared of commitment. We have too many stupid expectations instead of being realistic ("oh my man/woman needs to make $100,000 or more", she needs such & such level of education). I know a lot of good working men who I would love to date, but there is something that holds them back once we go beyond physical attraction.

...And before anyone says I should make the first move, NO. I tried that before and a man's ego will grow so large that it is sickening. I would rather have things the way they are and let the man be the man.


I can respect that. I can agree with the statement that men and women don't necessarily trust each other (this is true of all ages it seems). I think that it's hard for people to open up to one another unless there is a certain level of physical attraction. I'm shallow to a degree just like any other person. In a fast paced world, many people don't have the luxury of taking the time to get to know someone. The rules of the game have changed to the point that women almost have to take the first step if they don't want to remain lonely. If the man is right for you, then he will appreciate the small ego boost that would occur if a woman asked him out. So my question is, what will it take to break the stalemate between the men and women?
 
I also think that the more acceptable interracial relationships become, the less available black men will be to black women.
 
I also think that the more acceptable interracial relationships become, the less available black men will be to black women.

I don't know if we can afford to throw up the white (or other ethnicity) flag just yet. Nine times out of ten, we still would prefer to marry a sista. What I'm trying to do is start a dialogue on why we can't come together. How many people are willing to let go of their hangups in order to find someone that is right for them?

Here's another angle to consider and it's not a clear cut argument: In prior generations, Black men and women worked together to build a foundation. They had to work together to survive. One could argue that women lost their willingness to work with a man once they were able to financially provide for themselves. I'm not saying that we should return to the old days, but women don't feel the need to have a man in order to build a great life. Women today honestly believe that it is ok to wait for years on their ideal man with no guarantee that man will come into their life. I have a female friend right now who is not getting any younger. She refuses to even have a discussion with men who are from certain parts of our state (TN). Why purposely limit yourself? You never know who God will bring in to your life and when. Something to think about.
 
I don't know if we can afford to throw up the white (or other ethnicity) flag just yet. Nine times out of ten, we still would prefer to marry a sista. What I'm trying to do is start a dialogue on why we can't come together. How many people are willing to let go of their hangups in order to find someone that is right for them?

Here's another angle to consider and it's not a clear cut argument: In prior generations, Black men and women worked together to build a foundation. They had to work together to survive. One could argue that women lost their willingness to work with a man once they were able to financially provide for themselves. I'm not saying that we should return to the old days, but women don't feel the need to have a man in order to build a great life. Women today honestly believe that it is ok to wait for years on their ideal man with no guarantee that man will come into their life. I have a female friend right now who is not getting any younger. She refuses to even have a discussion with men who are from certain parts of our state (TN). Why purposely limit yourself? You never know who God will bring in to your life and when. Something to think about.

I think women and men aren't picky enough. They settle. And that is what's wrong with relationships today.
 
I think women and men aren't picky enough. They settle. And that is what's wrong with relationships today.

It's hard to say, but I can see your point. Pickiness can lead to lonliness, especially when you consider how many people are out there who really want to build a relationship. It's getting to the point that only Jesus can meet the high expectations that we have for a significant other. I don't mean for that to be funny...it's a sad commentary on where we are at as a people. The funny thing is that you see many people who wait for years to find the ideal person (who usually never comes their way). Only then will they truly become desparate and show a willingness to accept someone who may not have every characteristic on their wish list.

So again we have to wonder whether we are setting unrealistic expectations for our relationships. To each his own, but there comes a point when being too picky can cause you to miss out on a good one.
 
I believe that when our grandparents worked in fields, with 13 to 16 kids, settling was far easier then, than now. You didn't have to "go far" to settle because there weren't that many local distractions. Country living, I mean to say. Big city; different venue, examples of men, and expectations on relationships.

The media is a Bitch and a half. In reading the first comments in the thread, I got a picture of a very young woman, with not much experience in humility. As I see it, a woman must be willing to allow a man room to be himself...whatever that is. Arrogant Men and Women allow the media to dictate what real man or woman is. And people with zero experience and lessons accept that. My grandmothers bar was set to a reasonable level; God fearing, strong, capable man that made her feel loved. She told us all that before she passed on. Today, generally, men and women aren't raised to expect very much happiness; bliss. They look for reasons to expect failure; "men are dogs, women are bitches" is an inbred "reason" to expect failure.

So where is the bar really set? I don't expect that I should fail at something everyday, but when I do, my wife has my back, and I have hers. If two people are social and economic equivalents, being down for each other is easy. Shit gets real crazy when they aren't equals, AND racial differences are obvious. There isn't much reason for a person to stay humble if lines are crossed, with no experience and more money to pad the difference between actually being a solid fit for each other.

If a womans real examples around her are of men with no expectations, then she can't know what to expect. Here comes the media to fill that void; setting the bar for her. Men may have a better chance of knowing what to expect, because our women do most of the raising.

As for the chess match between our men and women, I think it is easier said than done, but stop playing chess. Shit is not that hard. This is a crazy world, and I hate having to compete for my wifes time. Interruptions fuck things all up. When a man is willing to say fuck the phone, people at the door, computer, and what ever else to devote time to a woman, she has to be good with that...and keep that shit private! When things are between you two and you two only, why is there a reason to compete? If you aren't doing battle, then you are building a little trust...maybe. But it isn't happening overnight.

anyway...give it a little thought or no, but I think what we expect from each other is all out of alignment. Good examples aren't as exciting as bad ones. Men and women are both trying to do too much too soon, with too much input, to give a relationship real Hope.

I will honestly say that arrogant people will be far more lonely than humble ones. But humility is attractive to me, and I could be wrong.
 
I know a few marriageable black men, but I am not attracted to them. What I have to ask myself is...if this man lost his job and had no money or became paralyzed or impotent would I still be with him? If the answer to any of those questions is no, then he's not the one for me. I don't even waste my time entertaining the thought of being with a man I find physically undesireable. I understand that love is what keeps people together, but I can't even fall in love with a man that does not appeal to me physically. I would have to say that at least 80% of the men I meet are not attractive in my eyes. If that sounds shallow, then so be it.

I have gone on a lot of dates and in my experience the majority of these men have been losers. They are either liars, unmotivated, lazy, looking for someone to take care of them or just looking for a "sidepiece." I have gotten so tired of the bullshit that I don't even answer my phone anymore. It is mentally and physically draining to have to deal with some of these men. The older I get, the less tolerance I have for weak minded individuals.

They say there are two ways to a man's heart. One way is through his stomach and the other way hangs right below his stomach. Well what about a woman's heart? What about showing some sensitivity? What about being thoughtful and caring? The size of your bank account really doesn't matter to me if you can't back that up with some real human emotion. Okay, I know I'm ranting, but eventually everyone gets tired of the bullshit and my tolerance for bullshit is at an all-time low.
 
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This is the most important topic, in our community, and I wish I had some answers. Excuse me if I Colin Powell: Reading the responses of some of the female fam is sobering. We, as a people, have been and continue to be brainwashed, by the media and each other. Breaking that mindset INDIVIDUALLY will be the only way I see a change..the media won't help us on this one. They make more money on the conflict. As ClementUT stated..and I agree, there ARE plenty of good BLACK men out there, and good BLACK women. But, the perception we've been fed, over the last genration or two, has become our reality. Now, the problem has grown to such proportions that even when we encounter a good match for ourselves, we don't recognize it, or we use our negative stereotypes of the opposite sex to excuse our behavior. I don't know how we can collectively change. All I can speak on is how I have contributed to the problem and what I plan on doing to rectify that. I have been that Black man that avoided monogamy, like the plague. In the last 12 years, I've been in TWO serious, committed relationships..both lasted a few years each. When I wasn't in a serious relationship I tried my best to bed as many women as possible.... and ALOT was possible, unfortunately. During that time, I passed on several females with the qualities that I look for in a potential mate. And many of them made it known that they would've liked to explore that avenue with me. I wrote them all off by regurgitating the usual propaganda...I don't want a woman to control me...she's not enough of this..she's too...fill in the blank. And I'm sure that my actions forced women to re-enforce their beliefs...all men are dogs, etc. I'm sure that some of the things women are taught and believe are detrimental to them finding a long term partner. However, there's nothing I can do to change that ingrained mindset, except to try to live my life in an exemplary fashion. EACH of us has to do some real soul searching to determine are we making good decisions for ourselves and our community, or are we going to continue down our current path. I've decided to change.
 
Mostly everyone settles. Otherwise, we might as well advocate polyamory.


I used to. But I won't anymore.

I demand top notch for everything in my life. I'm unhappy if I don't get those things. I'm unhappy when I don't get the job I want, the salary I demand, etc. I work towards getting all the things I want in my life and why shouldn't a great relationship be included in that?

Like I said in another thread, me settling to be with someone may fuck up the energy for the person I should be with because that person will end up settling too. Everyone is doing that and throwing the whole universe off kilter.
 
I used to. But I won't anymore.

I demand top notch for everything in my life. I'm unhappy if I don't get those things. I'm unhappy when I don't get the job I want, the salary I demand, etc. I work towards getting all the things I want in my life and why shouldn't a great relationship be included in that?

Like I said in another thread, me settling to be with someone may fuck up the energy for the person I should be with because that person will end up settling too. Everyone is doing that and throwing the whole universe off kilter.

And if the guy settles on you?
 
I was sitting here with my wife reading some of the responses and it's almost disheartening to see such cynicism. I think most people are misusing the term "setling" as if that were something to avoid. Many men and women don't want to admit it, but they have unrealistic expectations. I can agree with the notion that you should be physically attracted to someone. I don't mind admitting that I'm shallow myself on that end.

I think too many men and women are looking for a mate who is, for lack of a better phrase, ready to go right out of the box. We live in a society that emphasizes instant gratification and that's what I hear in some of these responses. What happened to the notion of seeing the potential of someone and working to make a better life? When me and my wife first got together, we didn't have 2 nickels to rub together. We took a leap of faith even though I can say we are both attractive (and I don't mind saying that lol). We both lived in an apartment and we both thought we were doing big things with our jobs at T-Mobile paying $11/hr:lol:

We've come a long way and we live in a nice house with 2 great little babies. It took a few years, but we took a leap of faith and it worked even when we both had doubts. But I guess I can say my wife is a throwback because most women are looking for the guy who is already making 75k a year or he is this or that. One question that I have for some of you women is this: What if your "ideal" man comes along and he decides you're not good enough for him? It happens everyday and it's a reason why a lot of our sistas go home to an empty house and an empty heart every night.

So it's not a matter of settling. There will always be someone who looks better, makes more, etc. The question is whether you are willing to compromise and build a MUTUALLY satisfying relationship with another person. Unfortunately a lot of people aren't willing to do this and it's why they will continue their search in the name of being picky.
 
Only the most foolish of the foolish would not be willing to compromise to be with someone. The thing is, you have to find the "right" someone and that is not an easy task. Sounds like you and your wife were fortunate enough to find each other at the right time. I, on the other hand, have already had 2 husbands and 2 divorces. I am not looking for anything because I no longer believe in the fairy tale. People are flawed....some more severely than others. I don't want some perfect person because I know that perfect person does not exist but I refuse to be with someone for the wrong reasons. I could have husband number 3 right now if I were willing to settle for less than what I really want. The thing is, you have to marry for the right reasons. I can honestly say that I married my ex-husbands not because I really wanted to marry them, but because they wanted to marry me. Life can't always be about making other people happy. At this point in time my happiness has to figure somewhere in the equation. Will I ever marry again? I don't know but if it happens it will be because I found the person that "I" want to be married to. Thank God I am now old enough to know what is best for me.

Good luck to you and your wife.
 
Only the most foolish of the foolish would not be willing to compromise to be with someone. The thing is, you have to find the "right" someone and that is not an easy task. Sounds like you and your wife were fortunate enough to find each other at the right time. I, on the other hand, have already had 2 husbands and 2 divorces. I am not looking for anything because I no longer believe in the fairy tale. People are flawed....some more severely than others. I don't want some perfect person because I know that perfect person does not exist but I refuse to be with someone for the wrong reasons. I could have husband number 3 right now if I were willing to settle for less than what I really want. The thing is, you have to marry for the right reasons. I can honestly say that I married my ex-husbands not because I really wanted to marry them, but because they wanted to marry me. Life can't always be about making other people happy. At this point in time my happiness has to figure somewhere in the equation. Will I ever marry again? I don't know but if it happens it will be because I found the person that "I" want to be married to. Thank God I am now old enough to know what is best for me.

Good luck to you and your wife.

It's all good my sista. There comes a time when you have to "do you" and that's cool. And it's true that you can't always make other people happy because it's impossible sometimes. One thing caught my attention and that is when you said you married your exes because they wanted to marry you. From the outside, this appears to be settling, so why did you do it?

Speaking generally, I think people may settle because they are afraid to be alone. In the end this can make it harder for the right person to enter your life. Which means unless someone really catches your eye, it's going to be difficult to know who's right for you.

It just seems as if this shouldn't be as difficult as we make it out to be. I think we have to get to a point where men and women start showing each other respect again, as old-fashioned as that concept may seem. Women have to be willing to let men be men and men have to learn to be gentlemen towards women. Mutual respect is the only way this will get back on track. The art of building a relationship together has been lost and it's the reason why divorce is commonplace.

I would really like to see young brothas and sistas get past the hangups. Not everyone can look like Denzel, but it's not like all these brothas look like Flava Flav either!:lol:
 
It's all good my sista. There comes a time when you have to "do you" and that's cool. And it's true that you can't always make other people happy because it's impossible sometimes. One thing caught my attention and that is when you said you married your exes because they wanted to marry you. From the outside, this appears to be settling, so why did you do it?

Speaking generally, I think people may settle because they are afraid to be alone. In the end this can make it harder for the right person to enter your life. Which means unless someone really catches your eye, it's going to be difficult to know who's right for you.

It just seems as if this shouldn't be as difficult as we make it out to be. I think we have to get to a point where men and women start showing each other respect again, as old-fashioned as that concept may seem. Women have to be willing to let men be men and men have to learn to be gentlemen towards women. Mutual respect is the only way this will get back on track. The art of building a relationship together has been lost and it's the reason why divorce is commonplace.

I would really like to see young brothas and sistas get past the hangups. Not everyone can look like Denzel, but it's not like all these brothas look like Flava Flav either!:lol:

I actually like being married. I feel closer to God when I'm married. I guess I married because I thought it was the right thing to do. I was 21 when I got married the first time. I had no concept of what "settling" was. He was attractive, sweet and hardworking. The problem was that we were both immature. We stayed married for five years and sort of grew up together, but during that growing up process we changed as people. We actually got along great after the divorce. My second husband was really into the church. We would go to church every sunday. The good thing about that marriage is that it brought me closer to God. There is not a day that goes by that I don't think of God. Before I met my second husband I didn't think about God everyday. The sad thing is that while I was strengthening my relationship with God my second ex had let his slip away and was smoking crack. Life is amazing, and people come into your life for a reason (and that doesn't have to include a marriage).
 
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