Israel question

[silentking]

I know the issue has been and is being discussed on the board. If this point has been made already, my bad. But as I'm thinking about this current/on going conflict with Israel and the Palestinians...I always hear the line that Israel's claim to the land is biblical. But that always fucks with me. I'm not a bible scholar, but I grew up in church lot a lot of black folks did. From what I recall of the Old Testament, God made a covenant with Israel and Israel continuously fucked it off to the point that God basicly wasnt fuckin with them no more. That was the whole point of the New Covenent through Christ wasnt it? And the Jews rejected Christ. So...how does a people who fell out of God's favor in their own story then use that story to claim the land? And for that matter...what about biblical Palestine? They were an empire in the bible. Why does the "biblical" claim to the land not hold for them?

 

[WorldEX]

Two blood brothers children fighting to this very day over land.

 

[Black A. Camus]

I know the issue has been and is being discussed on the board. If this point has been made already, my bad. But as I'm thinking about this current/on going conflict with Israel and the Palestinians...I always hear the line that Israel's claim to the land is biblical. But that always fucks with me. I'm not a bible scholar, but I grew up in church lot a lot of black folks did. From what I recall of the Old Testament, God made a covenant with Israel and Israel continuously fucked it off to the point that God basicly wasnt fuckin with them no more. That was the whole point of the New Covenent through Christ wasnt it? And the Jews rejected Christ. So...how does a people who fell out of God's favor in their own story then use that story to claim the land? And for that matter...what about biblical Palestine? They were an empire in the bible. Why does the "biblical" claim to the land not hold for them?

I thought that the Covenant was to Abraham, and his descendants. Not the nation of Israel. Abraham was faithful and obedient to God. My understanding is that he was the first to acknowledge and submit to the idea of single and supreme God. For this submission, God made the covenant--which promised Abraham and his descendants a great nation that God would call his own.


Childless after many years since the covenant, Abraham and his wife Sari began to question God's covenant. To have offspring, Sari allowed Abraham to have a child with her hand maiden, Hagar. Abraham and Hagar begot Ishmael. Although Ishmael was Abraham's first son, he was not the son God promised.

When Abraham was 99, 3 men visited Abraham and Sari and avowed they would have a son. Sari scoffed at the idea of bearing a child so late in life. But as foretold, Sari, whose name God changed to Sarah, and Abraham had a son named Isaac.

God ordained that the promise of the covenant was to extend through Isaac not Ishmael. Sarah eventually had beef with Hagar and Ishmael. At Sarah's behest, Abraham sent Hagar and Ishamel away.

God had mercy on Hagar and Ishmael, and Ishmael had 12 sons who became tribal chiefs. I'm not absolutely certain of this, but I think that a descendant of Ishmael is responsible for the Islamic faith.

 

[WorldEX]

I thought that the Covenant was to Abraham, and his descendants. Not the nation of Israel. Abraham was faithful and obedient to God. My understanding is that he was the first to acknowledge and submit to the idea of single and supreme God. For this submission, God made the covenant--which promised Abraham and his descendants a great nation that God would call his own.


Childless after many years since the covenant, Abraham and his wife Sari began to question God's covenant. To have offspring, Sari allowed Abraham to have a child with her hand maiden, Hagar. Abraham and Hagar begot Ishmael. Although Ishmael was Abraham's first son, he was not the son God promised.

When Abraham was 99, 3 men visited Abraham and Sari and avowed they would have a son. Sari scoffed at the idea of bearing a child so late in life. But as foretold, Sari, whose name God changed to Sarah, and Abraham had a son named Isaac.

God ordained that the promise of the covenant was to extend through Isaac not Ishmael. Sarah eventually had beef with Hagar and Ishmael. At Sarah's behest, Abraham sent Hagar and Ishamel away.

God had mercy on Hagar and Ishmael, and Ishmael had 12 sons who became tribal chiefs. I'm not absolutely certain of this, but I think that a descendant of Ishmael is responsible for the Islamic faith.

Sounds about right.

 

[Tom Slick]

“You will never be able to live here in peace, because you left here black and came back white.” -Former Egypt President Gamal Abdel Nasser in 1952

 

[Black A. Camus]

“You will never be able to live here in peace, because you left here black and came back white.” -Former Egypt President Gamal Abdel Nasser in 1952

Egypt was the first Arab country to recognize the nation of Israel. In this latest conflict, Egypt seems more on the side of Israel than Hamas and Palestine. But I guess that's none of my business.

 

[God Dammit]

[vv]35196044[/vv]


Gamal Abdel Nasser was the 2nd president in Egypt in 1956. Abdel went on television and radio in the 50's and stated to the Askenazi "You have left Black and returned White. You are impostors and shall never see peace". He was speaking about European Jews This comes from the book How the Hebrews became Jews by Joseì V. Malcioln

 

[Coldchi]

One night Jacob had a dream while fleeing from his brother Esau. In his dream the Lord said to him, "I am the Lord, the God of your father Abraham and the God of Isaac; the Land on which you lie, I will give it to you and to your descendants." (Genesis 28:13). God later appeared to Jacob and said to him, "the Land which I gave to Abraham and Isaac, I will give it to you, and I will give the Land to your descendants after you" (Genesis 35:11-12). This promise deeds the Land of Israel to the descendants of Jacob - the Jewish people of today.



"The Lord said to Abram after Lot had separated from him, 'Now lift up your eyes and look from the place where you are, northward and southward and eastward and westward; for all the land which you see, I will give it to you and to your descendants forever... Arise, walk about the land through its length and breadth; for I will give it to you'" (Genesis 13:14-17). "The Lord made a covenant with Abraham, saying, 'To your descendants I have given this Land, from the river of Egypt as far as the great river, the river Euphrates'" (Genesis 15:18-21). "I will fix your boundary from the Red Sea to the sea of the Philistines, and from the wilderness to the River Euphrates" (Exodus 23:31). Therefore we must conclude that the entire Land of Israel, including Judea and Samaria (the so-called "West Bank"), Gaza, the Golan Heights, and all of Jerusalem, was given by the God of Israel to the people of Israel in perpetuity. We, and we alone, have been given the title to the Land of Israel as a permanent inheritance by the Lord. No human government or coalition of governments has the right or authority to cede portions of the Land of Israel to anyone else.

 

[GAMETHEORY]

I thought that the Covenant was to Abraham, and his descendants. Not the nation of Israel. Abraham was faithful and obedient to God. My understanding is that he was the first to acknowledge and submit to the idea of single and supreme God. For this submission, God made the covenant--which promised Abraham and his descendants a great nation that God would call his own.


Childless after many years since the covenant, Abraham and his wife Sari began to question God's covenant. To have offspring, Sari allowed Abraham to have a child with her hand maiden, Hagar. Abraham and Hagar begot Ishmael. Although Ishmael was Abraham's first son, he was not the son God promised.

When Abraham was 99, 3 men visited Abraham and Sari and avowed they would have a son. Sari scoffed at the idea of bearing a child so late in life. But as foretold, Sari, whose name God changed to Sarah, and Abraham had a son named Isaac.

God ordained that the promise of the covenant was to extend through Isaac not Ishmael. Sarah eventually had beef with Hagar and Ishmael. At Sarah's behest, Abraham sent Hagar and Ishamel away.

God had mercy on Hagar and Ishmael, and Ishmael had 12 sons who became tribal chiefs. I'm not absolutely certain of this, but I think that a descendant of Ishmael is responsible for the Islamic faith.

 

[dagoon121]

Nigga believe in the bible?

 

[mangobob79]

so we gonna use a fictional history to claim a real land?

 

[silentking]

I thought that the Covenant was to Abraham, and his descendants. Not the nation of Israel.

Abraham's descendants (through one son) are the nation of Israel, thats why i said Israel's claim to the land was the covenant with God. But the rest of the Old Testament after that is what I'm really talking about. They fell out of God's favor.

so we gonna use a fictional history to claim a real land?

Its absurd to me as well...I'm just looking at their story. From what I remember of it (not how it started...what happened after that) God wasn't really feeling them by the time Christ supposedly lived and died. That's why they had been allowed to fall back into captivity.

 

[J Storm]

Two blood brothers children fighting to this very day over land.

Nice story but the Palestinians are the descendent of the real Israelites who converted to Islam in the 5-6th century . Those Jews you see today are 9th century converts from a place called Khazaria