Good Story on Fat Kids

Fuckallyall

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What's the Matter with (Ar)Kansas?
By Paul Campos Published 08/10/2005


Last week, former President Clinton appeared on CNN to discuss what he called a major health crisis involving children and food. Was Clinton addressing the situation in Niger, where perhaps three million people, including 800,000 children, are in serious danger of starving to death? No: Clinton was referring to his home state of Arkansas, where according to the former president 38% of the state's children are either overweight or at risk of becoming so.

Clinton applauded Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee's initiative to limit severely the contents of school vending machines, and the hours during which students can access them. "The bottom line is that we've got too many kids too overweight," Clinton said. "And they're walking time bombs. They're going to get adult onset diabetes too early. They're going to have cardiovascular problems. And the system is really going to be stressed."



Clinton then went on to relate his own struggles with weight during his Arkansas childhood. "I was the fat band boy," he confessed. "When I was thirteen, I was 5'8" and weighed 185 pounds."



The Clinton interview represents an almost perfect microcosm of the hysteria that envelops public policy discussions regarding weight in America today. This hysteria is marked by several recurring features.



First, these discussions tend to take place in a fact-free environment. Consider Clinton's allusion to a supposed epidemic of Type II diabetes among children. This has become a central claim of the public health establishment's anti-fat warriors, and it has been repeated in literally hundreds of stories in the major media in the last couple of years.



Something you won't find in these stories are statistics regarding how many children actually have Type II diabetes. The reason is simple: Type II diabetes remains very rare among children and adolescents, despite an epidemic of claims to the contrary. For example, a recent study surveyed more than 700 extremely fat children, more than half of whom had a family history of Type II diabetes. In other words, the study's cohort represented the tiny slice of the childhood population most at risk for developing the illness. And how many cases did the researchers uncover in this highest-risk group? 50? 100? 200? Answer: exactly one.



What about the claim that frightening numbers of children are either overweight or at risk for becoming overweight? Our public health agencies define children as overweight if they are in the 95th percentile of weight for their height and age, and as at risk for becoming overweight if they are between the 85th and 95th percentile. If it occurs to you to ask how, given this definition, we could avoid always having precisely 15% of our children defined as either overweight or at risk for overweight, then you clearly don't have what it takes to run a public health agency.



Second, weakly supported claims about the dire health consequences of higher than average weight are followed by completely unsupported claims about how this or that governmental initiative will ameliorate this supposed crisis. One would think that, before advocating steps such as legally prohibiting schools from making certain foods available to their students, the proponents of such steps would have some evidence that fat kids eat more of those foods than thin kids. But one would be wrong: there is no such evidence.



For instance, a recent 34-nation study of more than 130,000 children found that fat children ate the fewest sweets, and that how many fruits, vegetables and soft drinks children consumed had no correlation with their weight. The food police tell us it's simply "common sense" that fat kids are fat because they eat lots of junk food, while thin kids are thin because they don't. But of course that's the difference between common sense and science: Science actually requires some data.



Third, the proponents of common sense often project their own neuroses and anxieties about weight onto the data that so spectacularly fails to support their claims. Bill Clinton assures us he no longer feels like the fat band boy, while Governor Huckabee recently lost nearly 100 pounds. Well good for them -- but do we want to allow politicians to turn their own battles of the bulge into phony morality plays, by investing those battles with a public health significance they don't really have?
 
What about the claim that frightening numbers of children are either overweight or at risk for becoming overweight? Our public health agencies define children as overweight if they are in the 95th percentile of weight for their height and age, and as at risk for becoming overweight if they are between the 85th and 95th percentile. If it occurs to you to ask how, given this definition, we could avoid always having precisely 15% of our children defined as either overweight or at risk for overweight, then you clearly don't have what it takes to run a public health agency.

Of course, anyone who would rate an overweight person as someone who's in the 95 percentile of AMERICANS has already missed the brain cell boat. I just came back from Oakland, a place where some women are so fat it looks like they have three asses. It was a lot more than five out of every hundred too. That means that the smaller of those three assed women is considered to have a healthy weight for her height. What's worse is that according to statistics people in the Bay Area are below the national average for weight.

I'm sorry, but anyone who writes a health plan that puts a three assed woman as "proportionate" deserves to be shot as a public service.

Bill Clinton assures us he no longer feels like the fat band boy, while Governor Huckabee recently lost nearly 100 pounds. Well good for them -- but do we want to allow politicians to turn their own battles of the bulge into phony morality plays, by investing those battles with a public health significance they don't really have?

Isn't this statement a little dramatic when discussing a state bill to curb vending machines in schools? The way the author writes this you would think they were slaughtering first borns.
 
Of course, anyone who would rate an overweight person as someone who's in the 95 percentile of AMERICANS has already missed the brain cell boat. I just came back from Oakland, a place where some women are so fat it looks like they have three asses. It was a lot more than five out of every hundred too. That means that the smaller of those three assed women is considered to have a healthy weight for her height. What's worse is that according to statistics people in the Bay Area are below the national average for weight.

I'm sorry, but anyone who writes a health plan that puts a three assed woman as "proportionate" deserves to be shot as a public service.

That is not what the author is stating. What he is stating is that the policy has very little to do about weight, but about creating a perpetual reason to have political power.

Quote:
Bill Clinton assures us he no longer feels like the fat band boy, while Governor Huckabee recently lost nearly 100 pounds. Well good for them -- but do we want to allow politicians to turn their own battles of the bulge into phony morality plays, by investing those battles with a public health significance they don't really have?



Isn't this statement a little dramatic when discussing a state bill to curb vending machines in schools? The way the author writes this you would think they were slaughtering first borns.

What you are missing, IMO, is that this is just another way for the minority to try to hold sway over the majority, and destroy free will. Who would have thought that an organization created to try to keep dangerous people from behind the wheel become the leading proponents for reinstituting prohibition ? (MADD)

This is dangerous because it subverts parental choice in schools. If the parents did not want vending machines in schools, there would not be any. Why should anyone else have that power ? Is this not a republic that allows people to make thier own choices as long as you do not harm others ?

Also, this "obesity epidemic" is pure bullshit, and based on very bad science. According to the department of health and human services, I have been overweight since I was 20, when I was 6'3", and weighed 225 pounds. The problem was that I had a 33" waist (which is small for a man). If people were that obese, and obesity was as bad as they say it is, why are americans living longer and healthier.
 
Fuckallyall said:
... Is this not a republic that allows people to make thier own choices as long as you do not harm others ?
Are "Others" harmed when some make choices that run up the cost of medical attention for everyone else ???

... If people were that obese, and obesity was as bad as they say it is, why are americans living longer and healthier.
How many fat old people do you see ???

QueEx
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuckallyall
... Is this not a republic that allows people to make thier own choices as long as you do not harm others ?


Are "Others" harmed when some make choices that run up the cost of medical attention for everyone else ???

But the system (at least the publicly funded one) chooses to pay for the treatment of some by taking the money of others. That does not one the right to attempt to control others.
And the privately funded ones can modify the contracts that it offers to potential customers.

How many fat old people do you see ???
Many. However, that does not constitute a accurate statistic, and , that kind of helps my point that being fat (not morbidly obese) does not itself constitute a health risk.
 
Fuckallyall said:
That is not what the author is stating. What he is stating is that the policy has very little to do about weight, but about creating a perpetual reason to have political power.

I would agree with you if it wasn't for the fact that the heaviest 15 pertcentile of Americans IS grossly overweight. Now when and if that sorry fact changes then maybe we can talk about changing the standard.



Fuckallyall said:
What you are missing, IMO, is that this is just another way for the minority to try to hold sway over the majority, and destroy free will. Who would have thought that an organization created to try to keep dangerous people from behind the wheel become the leading proponents for reinstituting prohibition ? (MADD)

This is dangerous because it subverts parental choice in schools. If the parents did not want vending machines in schools, there would not be any. Why should anyone else have that power ? Is this not a republic that allows people to make thier own choices as long as you do not harm others ?

Also, this "obesity epidemic" is pure bullshit, and based on very bad science. According to the department of health and human services, I have been overweight since I was 20, when I was 6'3", and weighed 225 pounds. The problem was that I had a 33" waist (which is small for a man). If people were that obese, and obesity was as bad as they say it is, why are americans living longer and healthier.

I agree that the standards of obesity need to be changed. Scientifically I think that obesity means someone is at least 30 lbs overweight with a BMI above a certain point (not sure where it is). Even then you don't need a scientific study to see that Americans clearly have an epidemic on their hands. Walk down the street of almost any Canadian or European city and you'll see what I mean. Hell, walk down the street of almost ANY world city for that matter. Nobody else comes anywhere close.

The problem is that many overweight people pick up their poor eating habits from their parents. You also have a great number of them in serious denial. I hate to say it, but considering the risks and costs involved perhaps it's time to implement some parternalistic type laws to save people from themselves here. Scrapping vending machines in school is a good place to start.
 
I hate to say it, but considering the risks and costs involved perhaps it's time to implement some parternalistic type laws to save people from themselves here.

Thanks for the honesty. This sentence sums up all of the ballyhoo regarding a host of issues. Those who hold this thought pattern want to control those who do not live the way they think they should. That is tyranny, plain and simple, and, I have NEVER heard of a good and healthy tyrannical government. If you have, please let me know.
 
Tyranny? Hardly. For one thing there already IS some level of regulation. If you invent a food that doesn't meet certain nutritional standards the FDA won't let you sell it. How is that any different then curbing vending machines in school? After all, even the most rural schools usually have a corner store within walking distance where kids can buy all the junk food they want. Curbing the vending machines just discourages the impluse factor and cuts down on the amount of advertising. In the end it creates MORE personal choice because the kids are able to make a decision with less outside influence.

For the record, I don't think the government should stop anyone from being a fatass. However, there should be restrictions on the way that junk food is offered and advertised to kids. For instance I think that junk food should be given a legal definition. Once that's done junk food should have the same sort of taxes and restrictions that cigarettes have. The schools should also do whatever they can to increase awareness of healthy foods. Phsy ed should be manditory for all levels of students. In fact, I think a program should be phased in whereby a person should have to pass a fitness test to qualify for graduation. After all, when was the last time a 40 year old man caught a heart attack from weak algebra skills?

Kids need to learn that after you've been eating so-called "rabbit food" for a while it can actually taste better and make you feel better than candy. They need to know that working out in a gym or running laps can be a very rewarding experience once you've stepped out of your comfort zone. These factors are important in determining weather or not a person is a productive citizen or a drain on society.
 
Tyranny? Hardly.

Definition of tyranny from Dictionary.com

a form of government in which the ruler is an absolute dictator (not restricted by a constitution or laws or opposition etc.)
That is exactly what this thought pattern leads to. "we know better for you than you do". Also, what about the kids who are not very fat. Why should they suffer because of the fat kids? What makes fat kids automatically unhealthy ? Many studies have concluded that it is not the weight of the individual, but the cardiovascular condition, that contributes more to "weight" related disease. Look in the article about the studies done.

For the record, I don't think the government should stop anyone from being a fatass.

This directly contradicts your earlier statement. Choose one.

In fact, I think a program should be phased in whereby a person should have to pass a fitness test to qualify for graduation.
Sounds nice at first. However, lets examine it.
First of all, you USED to have to pass Phys Ed to get out of school, but that was phased out by those who did not want to "stigmatize" some kids. Second, how do we draw the lines for those who may have various handicaps. Holla.

If you invent a food that doesn't meet certain nutritional standards the FDA won't let you sell it.
Please provide an example. If that is the case, spare ribs, twinkies and a host of other foods should be banned.

Kids need to learn that after you've been eating so-called "rabbit food" for a while it can actually taste better and make you feel better than candy.

Who should do this? Under what circumstances? How should it be implemented? At what point do you become the "food police"?

Ultimately, here are my two points:
1. If you are upset about the where your tax money goes, do not let it go there.
2. Do not think that just because you give money to somebody (or somebody TAKES your money and gives it to somebody), that they are beholden to act as you see fit.
 
Fuckallyall said:
Definition of tyranny from Dictionary.com

a form of government in which the ruler is an absolute dictator (not restricted by a constitution or laws or opposition etc.)
That is exactly what this thought pattern leads to. "we know better for you than you do". Also, what about the kids who are not very fat. Why should they suffer because of the fat kids? What makes fat kids automatically unhealthy ? Many studies have concluded that it is not the weight of the individual, but the cardiovascular condition, that contributes more to "weight" related disease. Look in the article about the studies done.

I never said that a ruler should make an absolute law on what foods a kid can and can't eat. I would like to see measures put in that would encourage healthy lifestyles and discourage unhealthy ones. This is not tyrannical, in fact it's the hallmark of a responsible democratic government. There's no law that says you can't drink or smoke yourself to death, and by the same token I don't think it should be illegal for one to eat themselves to death either.

Your arguement that weight related diseases are caused by a poor cardiovascular condition actually proves my point. Junk food decreases a person's energy levels which leaves them less likely to excercise which in turn leads to an underdeveloped cardiovascular system. Also, the more extra fat a person carries, the more stress they place on their heart and lungs. The two factors work hand in hand.

As for the phys ed pass credit. Perhaps the Phys ed test could be based on a student's fitness level at the beginning of the year and their fitness level at the year's end. If a student shows a certain level of improvement they get the pass. That way there's no stigma and many handicapped kids could still get in the program. Of course you'd have some kids who would hold back at the beginning of the year for an easy pass, but if the teachers could encourage people to take pride in their bodies you would still have a marked improvement in the student body's health.

There are several food products that are banned by the FDA. foods containing red dye #5 and ephedrine come to mind.

Finally, exposing kids to healthy foods does not equate to having a "food police". When I was in school the prinicipal would play classical music over the PA system to educate students about music they might not otherwise get into. However, there was no rule against listening to popular music. In fact some teachers would even use popular music as a part of their teaching materials. This is the same kind of system that I'm suggesting in regards to healthy food in school.
 
<font size="5"><center>Waistlines continue to grow in U.S.</font size></center>

By KEVIN FREKING
ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITER
Tuesday, August 29, 2006 · Last updated 11:28 a.m. PT



WASHINGTON -- The ever-growing waistlines of Americans expanded a little bit more in 2005 as 31 states registered an increase in obesity among adults.

The findings led some health care experts to dispute the notion Tuesday that obesity is simply a personal choice. They say that finding ways to improve fitness needs more attention from the government, employers as well as the food and beverage industry.

The organization that tracked obesity on a state-by-state basis, Trust for America's Health, said better information and access are the keys to improving health.

"If we're urging people to walk more, and their streets are not safe, that's an unrealistic expectation," said Jeff Levi, the group's executive director. "If we're urging people to eat more fresh fruits and vegetables, and they don't have access to a supermarket or the cost is beyond their capacity, then we're not asking them to take responsibility for something they have control over."

Levi's organization found that nine of the 10 states with the highest obesity rates are in the South: Mississippi continued to lead the way. An estimated 29.5 percent of adults there are considered obese. It's followed by Alabama and West Virginia.

Meanwhile, Colorado remains the leanest state. About 16.9 percent of its adults are considered obese. That mark was also up slightly from last year's report, but not enough to be considered statistically significant.

Alaska ranked 19th at 23.5 percent, Washington state 29th at 21.7 percent, Oregon 36th at 21 percent and Idaho 37th at 20.9 percent.

The only state that experienced a decrease in the percentage of obese adults last year was Nevada.

"Obesity now exceeds 25 percent in 13 states, which should sound some serious alarm bells," Levi said.

Health officials warn that a high incidence of obesity in a particular state doesn't mean it treats the issue less seriously than others. States have different challenges to contend with, said Dr. Janet Collins of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

"Populations are not equal in terms of experiencing these health problems," Collins said. "Low-income populations tend to experience all the health problems we worry about at greater rates."

Trust for America's Health made scores of recommendations for reducing obesity. For example:

-Employers should offer benefits that help workers stay healthy, such as nutrition counseling and subsidized health club memberships.

-The government should mandate routine screenings that measure the fitness of Medicaid beneficiaries, plus subsidize or reimburse them for participating in exercise and fitness programs.

-Local governments should approve zoning and land-use laws that give people more chances to walk or bike to the store or to work. Local governments also should set aside more funding for sidewalks.

-The food and beverage industry should be clearer about the calories and fat content in their products. They estimate calories and fat on a per-serving basis. They should estimate based on the size of the product, which often contain two or three servings, or more.

The group also makes recommendations for individuals. But the recommendations that people eat well and exercise are known to Americans. And clearly, many just don't care to follow.

Collins said tobacco use is another area that could be labeled a personal choice, but government agencies have taken many steps to provide people with the environment and information they need to help them make their choices. The same should be done with obesity.

The report says the health costs associated with obesity are in the billions of dollars annually. Citing a 2004 report, the advocacy group said $5.6 billion could be saved when it comes to treating heart disease if just one-tenth of Americans began a regular walking program.

The group's estimate of obesity rates is based on a three-year average, 2003-2005. The data comes from an annual random sampling of adults via the telephone. The information is designed to help the government measure behavioral risks among adults.

The government equates obesity with a body mass index, or BMI, of at least 30. Someone who is 5-feet-4 would have to weigh 175 pounds to reach that threshold.

The index is calculated by dividing a person's weight in pounds by his height in inches, squared, and multiplying that total by 703. For some people, particularly athletes who exercise a great deal, the BMI index could show them as being obese when in fact they are in excellent physical condition.

---

On the Net:

Trust for America's Health: http://healthyamericans.org

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/6420AP_Obesity_State_Rankings.html
 
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