Godfather Questions

[Gazoo]

Taking a break from the Olympics and work. Had a question for my fellow BGOL'ers and Godfather fans.

Why is Luca Brassi killed? You'd think they'd jump at the chance to have him on their side. In the novel his character is like a killing demon. Never understood this.

Second question. How does Don Corleone know that it's Barzini that killed Sonny after the meeting of all the families?

 

[LSN]

It was so obvious what he was doing they saw him coming a mile away...plus after that 1st meeting when Don Corleone turned down dude's offer it's my guess that the plan was already in motion to wipe out Corleone and any affiliates

Barzini was too vocal during that meeting...the other guy was too stupid so Corleone knew it wasn't him but when he seen how much talking Barzini was doing he realized he was the mastermind

Just my guesses...you watching AMC ain't you?

 

[Gazoo]

Alright, you gave me two answers.

Was he killed because they knew he was faking the turncoat thing and was really a spy...

OR

...because they just wanted to get rid of all Corleone's associates. Especially Brazzi.

Also...

Still awaiting how Corleone knew it was Barzini.

 

[THREAD_CRITIC]

Both of your questions are pretty obvious....

 

[Mastermind2002]

The goal by the Barzini family was to wipe out the Corleone family because they were the only family not aboard with going into the drug trade; Vito wanted no part of it. The Corleone family however had a lot of territories in NYC and Barzini wanted those territories for drug trafficking. Luca Brasi was the top muscle for the Corleone family so he was one of the first to go. He got at Vito but he survived and he got at Sonny. The person he underestimated was Michael.

 

[Mastermind2002]

Also how Vito knew Barzini was behind everything? Just look at how Barzini and Tattaglia act at the meeting. The deal is suppose to be between Tattaglia and Corleone yet before they embrace in a hug Tattaglia looks over to Barzini for his assurance. It's pretty clear that Barzini is calling the shots.

 

[Gazoo]

Also how Vito knew Barzini was behind everything? Just look at how Barzini and Tattaglia act at the meeting. The deal is suppose to be between Tattaglia and Corleone yet before they embrace in a hug Tattaglia looks over to Barzini for his assurance. It's pretty clear that Barzini is calling the shots.

Best explanation I've heard. I'll have to watch that part again.

I'm not a cat that catches all the little things in a movie. But, damn, the Godfather is probably the best cotdamn movie ever made. Seen it about 120 times (seriously) and have always wondered about those two scenes.

 

[Wobble Wobble]

The movie doesn't go into Luca Brasi enough. But, if you check it early on, where Michael is with Kate at the wedding reception, Luca is rehearsing his lines - no matter what he's done for The Godfather, he's still got to practice what he says. When Luca, a cold blooded killer, is in the room with The Godfather, he's so scared, he's stumbling and shaking. If Luca is a stone killer, then The Godfather is ruthless. You have to kill Luca.

The Barzini crew knew of Luca's blind loyalty to The Godfather. They knew they couldn't "turn" him like they did with the son-in-law that betrayed Sonny or Paulie.

 

[SPECTRE1]

Shortly before Vito Corleone is shot, Brasi was summoned by the Don, who intends to draw out rival mobster Virgil Sollozzo and the rest of the Don's enemies by having Luca pretend he had switched allegiances. Luca hung around Bruno Tattaglia's nightclub, eventually going to bed with one of his bargirls and complaining about not making much money, knowing that word would eventually get back to Bruno. When Bruno offers a meeting, Luca drives to the meeting, wearing a bulletproof vest.

Luca proudly voices his loyalty to Sollozzo whilst discussing a deal with him, telling him that he'd never go against Don Corleone, that he's a man he respects. Sollozzo, after promising friendship, a job, and $50,000, then rams a knife into Luca's hand, pinning it to the bar as an assassin garrottes him from behind. With Brasi dead, Sollozzo's men were free to attempt a hit on Don Corleone without fear of Luca hunting them down later. After Vito is shot, Sonny and the rest of the Corleones fail to contact Luca, but think this means that the brutal enforcer is already out looking for reprisal, and Sonny feels confident that his father's would-be assassins will soon be dead. A Sicilian message is later sent to the Corleone family: a fish wrapped in Brasi's bulletproof vest. The meaning is made clear to the Corleones: "Luca Brasi sleeps with the fishes."

Brasi's role as personal enforcer/bodyguard to the Don was later filled by Al Neri. Tom Hagen once said to Michael following the completion of Neri's training, "Well, now you've got your Luca."

 

[cozmic33]

Alright, you gave me two answers.

Was he killed because they knew he was faking the turncoat thing and was really a spy...

OR

...because they just wanted to get rid of all Corleone's associates. Especially Brazzi.

Also...

Still awaiting how Corleone knew it was Barzini.

bro if Luca Brasi would've shook hands with Sollozzo then they would know he was being real with them but since he was bullshitting he got killed...shit is fuckin obvious bruh

 

[TheFuser]

"But even Sonny won't be able to call off Luca Brazzi"

Tom said that during the "meeting" after the attempted hit on The Godfather. They had to kill Luca because they knew he was extra loyal to The Don.

 

[michant2]

Everyone knew that Luca was absolutely loyal to Don Corleone. Sollozo wouldn't take the chance that Luca was lying. Luca's reputation for being being unkillable and ability to get to anyone and his vicious brutality were enough to keep people from attempting to kill Vito. It was also the perfect opportunity to take him out.

What you should ask is why would Don Vito send Luca into a dangerous situation having to know that he could be killed? We learn in The Family Corleone that Luca's brain is deteriorating. So it's likely that the Don had some idea that Luca's utility was coming to an end.

The one thing about Don Vito is that he was a very patient strategist. His only 2 mistakes were 1) letting that situation with Connie and Rizzo persist and 2) taking Fredo with him instead of another bodyguard or at least take extra security.

I just finished reading The Family Corleone and it went completely into Luca's past and the source of his loyalty to Vito.

As far as Barzini is concerned, it wasn't the first time that Barzini was a part of a plot to have the Don killed. Of course we don't know this from the movie. However, like someone mentioned earlier, Don Vito knew that Tattaglia wasn't smart enough to plan everything that went down. He just didn't know it was Barzini behind Tattaglia until that meeting.

 

[michant2]

The person he underestimated was Michael.

They didn't necessarily underestimate Michael. Michael wasn't in the business and all the families knew to leave him alone. They all knew he was smart but they didn't or couldn't have known that Michael would have all the same characteristics of Don Vito and have Don Vito be his consigilere. Michael was green, but they didn't underestimate him, they just didn't see him coming.

 

[Gazoo]

Everyone knew that Luca was absolutely loyal to Don Corleone. Sollozo wouldn't take the chance that Luca was lying. Luca's reputation for being being unkillable and ability to get to anyone and his vicious brutality were enough to keep people from attempting to kill Vito. It was also the perfect opportunity to take him out.

What you should ask is why would Don Vito send Luca into a dangerous situation having to know that he could be killed? We learn in The Family Corleone that Luca's brain is deteriorating. So it's likely that the Don had some idea that Luca's utility was coming to an end.

The one thing about Don Vito is that he was a very patient strategist. His only 2 mistakes were 1) letting that situation with Connie and Rizzo persist and 2) taking Fredo with him instead of another bodyguard or at least take extra security.

I just finished reading The Family Corleone and it went completely into Luca's past and the source of his loyalty to Vito.

As far as Barzini is concerned, it wasn't the first time that Barzini was a part of a plot to have the Don killed. Of course we don't know this from the movie. However, like someone mentioned earlier, Don Vito knew that Tattaglia wasn't smart enough to plan everything that went down. He just didn't know it was Barzini behind Tattaglia until that meeting.

Everyone keeps saying it's so obvious. If so, like you ask, why would the Don send him into that situation. If, as you say, the Don kinda wanted to get rid of Luca. That might be plausible, but they don't say that. I mean one moment it seems that Luca is grateful for being invited to a wedding that everybody was invited to. Then you cut to the Don talking with Luca and calling him his dear friend.

Obviously the movie doesn't have the time to pick apart a character like a book. Just maybe Scorseze (spelling) could have done a better job of developing Luca's character.

Thanks for the clarifications bruhs.

Still worthy of four stars... or five BGOL stars.

 

[michant2]

If so, like you ask, why would the Don send him into that situation. If, as you say, the Don kinda wanted to get rid of Luca. That might be plausible, but they don't say that.

I didn't say he wasn't trying to get rid of Luca. Luca's just coming to the end of his usefulness. The Don probably thought sending Luca wasn't going to hurt.

 

[Gazoo]

They didn't necessarily underestimate Michael. Michael wasn't in the business and all the families knew to leave him alone. They all knew he was smart but they didn't or couldn't have known that Michael would have all the same characteristics of Don Vito and have Don Vito be his consigilere. Michael was green, but they didn't underestimate him, they just didn't see him coming.

He was ruthless. Fucking Irish cop turned a switch in his head.

 

[michant2]

He was ruthless. Fucking Irish cop turned a switch in his head.

He was absolutely ruthless, even more ruthless than Don Vito.
I watched it last night for the 1000th time, and I never realized how cold he could be until he told Fredo, "Don't ever. Take sides. Against the Family. Again." You knew he was deadly serious by the look on his face.

 

[NICKLEBAGKILLA]

This isn't the reason he got got but Luca Brasi threw a newborn baby into a furnace. You can't have that type of person walking the streets...

 

[Wobble Wobble]

This isn't the reason he got got but Luca Brasi threw a newborn baby into a furnace. You can't have that type of person walking the streets...

And The Godfather got the charges dropped. Hence Luca's absolute loyalty. I don't know about The Family Corleone, but that's in the book The Godfather.

 

[EnSabahNur]

Taking a break from the Olympics and work. Had a question for my fellow BGOL'ers and Godfather fans.

Why is Luca Brassi killed? You'd think they'd jump at the chance to have him on their side. In the novel his character is like a killing demon. Never understood this.

Second question. How does Don Corleone know that it's Barzini that killed Sonny after the meeting of all the families?

I will give you a quote from the book itself to get a better understanding of Brasi & Corleone. One of my favorite reads.
Luca Brasi was indeed a man to frighten the devil in hell himself. Short, squat, massive-skulled, his presence sent out alarm bells of danger. His face was stamped into a mask of fury. The eyes were brown but with none of the warmth of that color, more a deadly tan. The mouth was not so much cruel as lifeless; thin, rubbery and the color of veal.
Brasi's reputation for violence was awesome and his devotion to Don Corleone legendary. He was, in himself, one of the great blocks that supported the Don's power structure. His kind was a rarity.
Luca Brasi did not fear the police, he did not fear society, he did not fear God, he did not fear hell, he did not fear or love his fellow man. But he had elected, he had chosen, to fear and love Don Corleone. Ushered into the presence of the Don, the terrible Brasi held himself stiff with respect.

Anyway, the families all knew Brasi would never leave the side of Corleone, and knew the entire thing was a setup.

 

[three-fifths]

had to watch this shit again.

don't sleep on knowledge.

 

[EnSabahNur]

Everyone keeps saying it's so obvious. If so, like you ask, why would the Don send him into that situation. If, as you say, the Don kinda wanted to get rid of Luca. That might be plausible, but they don't say that. I mean one moment it seems that Luca is grateful for being invited to a wedding that everybody was invited to. Then you cut to the Don talking with Luca and calling him his dear friend.

Obviously the movie doesn't have the time to pick apart a character like a book. Just maybe Scorseze (spelling) could have done a better job of developing Luca's character.

Thanks for the clarifications bruhs.

Still worthy of four stars... or five BGOL stars.

The Don, wasn't trying to get rid of Brasi, it really was just to get information, plus it had been done before, again and again. It was the Turk, that was underestimated on how ruthless and smart he was.

 

[DJB10]

i know The Godfather trilogy back & forth + the book so i already know the answers to this (i didn't read The Sicilian though which is supposed to be the sequel but whatever).

i was gonna make a similar post yesterday asking a Reservoir Dogs question so i'll just post it here.

it's more of a "WTF moment"....ok at the very end when Joe, Nice Guy Eddie & Mr White (Larry) all have their guns drawn & shoot each other how in the hell does Mr Pink still survive? i mean Mr White kills Joe & Eddie, survives, but Mr Pink was already shot & lost lots of blood. how the hell was he able to survive another shot long enough to let White know he was a cop....before White kills him???

 

[godofwine]

To my Cleveland Fam, The Godfather is playing on August 3rd at the Playhouse Square for $5

http://www.playhousesquare.org/default.asp?playhousesquare=58&objId=3021

 

[Gazoo]

I will give you a quote from the book itself to get a better understanding of Brasi & Corleone. One of my favorite reads.
Luca Brasi was indeed a man to frighten the devil in hell himself. Short, squat, massive-skulled, his presence sent out alarm bells of danger. His face was stamped into a mask of fury. The eyes were brown but with none of the warmth of that color, more a deadly tan. The mouth was not so much cruel as lifeless; thin, rubbery and the color of veal.
Brasi's reputation for violence was awesome and his devotion to Don Corleone legendary. He was, in himself, one of the great blocks that supported the Don's power structure. His kind was a rarity.
Luca Brasi did not fear the police, he did not fear society, he did not fear God, he did not fear hell, he did not fear or love his fellow man. But he had elected, he had chosen, to fear and love Don Corleone. Ushered into the presence of the Don, the terrible Brasi held himself stiff with respect.

Anyway, the families all knew Brasi would never leave the side of Corleone, and knew the entire thing was a setup.

My gut instinct was also to use the book. However, the movie is supposed to stand alone as if you hadn't read the book. Which most fans of the movie haven't. From the movie alone all you get about Luca is that he was surprisingly invited to the wedding, yet is the dear friend of Vito. Vito does give him that strange look at the wedding as if to say, "WTF is wrong with you".

 

[RunawaySlave]

Luca Brasi was indeed a man to frighten the devil in hell himself. Short, squat, massive-skulled, his presence sent out alarm bells of danger. His face was stamped into a mask of fury. The eyes were brown but with none of the warmth of that color, more a deadly tan. The mouth was not so much cruel as lifeless; thin, rubbery and the color of veal.
Brasi's reputation for violence was awesome and his devotion to Don Corleone legendary. He was, in himself, one of the great blocks that supported the Don's power structure. His kind was a rarity.
Luca Brasi did not fear the police, he did not fear society, he did not fear God, he did not fear hell, he did not fear or love his fellow man. But he had elected, he had chosen, to fear and love Don Corleone. Ushered into the presence of the Don, the terrible Brasi held himself stiff with respect.

Damn, I never read the book, except for the height thing he sound like Marv from Sin City

 

[Van Allen]

The movie doesn't go into Luca Brasi enough. But, if you check it early on, where Michael is with Kate at the wedding reception, Luca is rehearsing his lines - no matter what he's done for The Godfather, he's still got to practice what he says. When Luca, a cold blooded killer, is in the room with The Godfather, he's so scared, he's stumbling and shaking. If Luca is a stone killer, then The Godfather is ruthless. You have to kill Luca.

The Barzini crew knew of Luca's blind loyalty to The Godfather. They knew they couldn't "turn" him like they did with the son-in-law that betrayed Sonny or Paulie.

correct

 

[EnSabahNur]

My gut instinct was also to use the book. However, the movie is supposed to stand alone as if you hadn't read the book. Which most fans of the movie haven't. From the movie alone all you get about Luca is that he was surprisingly invited to the wedding, yet is the dear friend of Vito. Vito does give him that strange look at the wedding as if to say, "WTF is wrong with you".

Yes, the book is a must read and does have a lot of stuff left out of the movie(although the movie(s), where great!). Brasi, was grateful, that he was invited to the wedding, at the same time, Corleone & Brasi, both knew to keep distance and also Brasi, although loyal, was still odd to see him nervous for the wedding. One of the stories in the book about their relationship, as Michael told Kay, was different in the movie.
Nearly fifteen years ago some people wanted to take over my father's oil importing business. They tried to kill him and nearly did. Luca Brasi went after them. The story is that he killed six men in two weeks and that ended the famous olive oil war.


Look at how uncomfortable Corleone was with Brasi and the gift.
The Don received Brasi as a king greets a subject who has done him an enormous service, never familiar but with regal respect. With every gesture, with every word, Don Corleone made it clear to Luca Brasi that he was valued. Not for one moment did he show surprise at the wedding gift being presented to him personally. He understood.


Doesn't seem like much right there, but read what happens after Brasi leaves the room.
When the door closed Don Corleone gave a small sigh of relief. Brasi was the only man in the world who could make him nervous. The man was like a natural force, not truly subject to control. He had to be handled as gingerly as dynamite. The Don shrugged. Even dynamite could be exploded harmlessly if the need arose.

 

[LSN]

Ya as been said the books offer you more insight into the characters and ties up a lot of loose ends for example what became of those responsible for the death of Michael's wife...I always wondered if Michael would've been a "gentler" figure if she had lived moreso along the lines of his father instead of so cold and distant...but as far as the movie I always thought it was weak how he sent Brasi there w/ such a half ass plan...it was just too quick...they just had a failed meeting and then Brasi shows up wanting to work for them...too much of a coincidence for anyone not to see threw it...unfortunately w/ tv shows + movies you always have characters doing something out of the ordinary/doesn't make sense to advance the story...Don Corleone shoulda been smarter than that

 

[EnSabahNur]

Ya as been said the books offer you more insight into the characters and ties up a lot of loose ends for example what became of those responsible for the death of Michael's wife...I always wondered if Michael would've been a "gentler" figure if she had lived moreso along the lines of his father instead of so cold and distant...but as far as the movie I always thought it was weak how he sent Brasi there w/ such a half ass plan...it was just too quick...they just had a failed meeting and then Brasi shows up wanting to work for them...too much of a coincidence for anyone not to see threw it...unfortunately w/ tv shows + movies you always have characters doing something out of the ordinary/doesn't make sense to advance the story...Don Corleone shoulda been smarter than that

I actually saw the movie years before I even thought about reading the book, hell like 20 years later. But once I read the book, it was like finally answering a lot of questions I had and wondered. It also, finally made sense, why Pt3, wasn't the fit(cause it wasn't in the book!). I think one of the only books, comics, graphic novels, to ever go from book to screen perfectly is 300.

 

[bborn]

peace

I will give you a quote from the book itself to get a better understanding of Brasi & Corleone. One of my favorite reads.
Luca Brasi was indeed a man to frighten the devil in hell himself. Short, squat, massive-skulled, his presence sent out alarm bells of danger. His face was stamped into a mask of fury. The eyes were brown but with none of the warmth of that color, more a deadly tan. The mouth was not so much cruel as lifeless; thin, rubbery and the color of veal.
Brasi's reputation for violence was awesome and his devotion to Don Corleone legendary. He was, in himself, one of the great blocks that supported the Don's power structure. His kind was a rarity.
Luca Brasi did not fear the police, he did not fear society, he did not fear God, he did not fear hell, he did not fear or love his fellow man. But he had elected, he had chosen, to fear and love Don Corleone. Ushered into the presence of the Don, the terrible Brasi held himself stiff with respect.

Anyway, the families all knew Brasi would never leave the side of Corleone, and knew the entire thing was a setup.

Good Look, ESN
How you, Fams?
1st thing I thought of but appreciate the intricate description as the flick had me believing he was a tall man.
Still menacing but he was actually short & stout.
KNEW they weren't going for the oke doke.

Barzini was too vocal during that meeting...

That's my oleEarth's actual nursing school in that movie where they had Vito after he got shot the fuck up fucking with Fraeddo's silly ass @ that fruit stand.

I know The Godfather trilogy back & forth + the book so I already know the answers to this (I didn't read The Sicilian though which is supposed to be the sequel but whatever).

I was gonna make a similar post yesterday asking a Reservoir Dogs question so i'll just post it here.

it's more of a "WTF moment"....ok at the very end when Joe, Nice Guy Eddie & Mr White (Larry) all have their guns drawn & shoot each other how in the hell does Mr Pink still survive? I mean Mr White kills Joe & Eddie, survives, but Mr Pink was already shot & lost lots of blood. how the hell was he able to survive another shot long enough to let White know he was a cop....before White kills him???

Its because Tarantino's a fucking hack & White aint kill MrPink{.."because You're a FAGGOT, Alright!"} as you may have it a lil twisted.
To my knowledge Pink ran off as you could hear his footsteps outside & only Tarantino knows if he got away or killed (edited below after further review). Pink wasnt even there when NiceGuyEddie & his pops, Joe got there (BlessTheDead to both of them actors)


Mr. ORANGE's ass should have died in the fucking car from the gutshot if Tarantino's character himself (Mr whomever??/Brown) died behind the wheel.
Them cops ran up in there & sprayed him, which is what we hear right b4 the credits.
Here you go if you choose not to believe me
.

Now the cops MAY have killed Orange by accident & now listening closely Pink got arrested outside as they told him to drop the gun during White's struggle to get over to Orange & TRY or WANT to body him.

peace

 

[EnSabahNur]

peace



Good Look, ESN
How you, Fams?
1st thing I thought of but appreciate the intricate description as the flick had me believing he was a tall man.
Still menacing but he was actually short & stout.
KNEW they weren't going for the oke doke.

peace

Doing good FAM, hope all is well on your end too.
I was thinking the same thing, Brasi was this huge giant guy, but wasn't tall at all, short & stout. Almost something like an old school "Sammy the bull" cat, but even more serious looking.

 

[DJB10]

peace





Its because Tarantino's a fucking hack & White aint kill MrPink{.."because You're a FAGGOT, Alright!"} as you may have it a lil twisted.
To my knowledge Pink ran off as you could hear his footsteps outside & only Tarantino knows if he got away or killed (edited below after further review). Pink wasnt even there when NiceGuyEddie (MrBlonde) & his pops, Joe got there (BlessTheDead to both of them actors)


Mr. ORANGE's ass should have died in the fucking car from the gutshot if Tarantino's character himself (Mr whomever??/Brown) died behind the wheel.
Them cops ran up in there & sprayed him, which is what we hear right b4 the credits.
Here you go if you choose not to believe me
.

Now the cops MAY have killed Orange by accident & now listening closely Pink got arrested outside as they told him to drop the gun during White's struggle to get over to Orange & TRY or WANT to body him.

peace

damn, i meant to say "Orange"

yeah i knew Pink gets caught outside but it seems to me that after Orange tells White he's a cop he puts his gun to his head then the others bust in.....the others warn White to put the gun down, you hear a shot & White jerks a bit (as if he shoots Orange) then you hear a bunch of shots & it looks like he goes down (as if the cops shot him.

in the extra footage White talks a little more about the last job he was on where 1 of the crew members was an undercover & he slightly brings it up to Pink in the regular movie (i think i'm fuckin cursed). so knowing that part i think he kills Orange cause he let his guard down & didn't like being made a fool.

 

[bborn]

damn, I meant to say "Orange"

yeah i knew Pink gets caught outside but it seems to me that after Orange tells White he's a cop he puts his gun to his head then the others bust in.....the others warn White to put the gun down, you hear a shot & White jerks a bit (as if he shoots Orange) then you hear a bunch of shots & it looks like he goes down (as if the cops shot him.

in the extra footage White talks a little more about the last job he was on where 1 of the crew members was an undercover & he slightly brings it up to Pink in the regular movie (i think i'm fuckin cursed). so knowing that part i think he kills Orange cause he let his guard down & didn't like being made a fool.

I see what you're saying @ 2:07/08 & also saw the extra footage you spoke on but fucking Tarantino made it to be interpreted vaguely by moving the camera so kats could argue into infinity over if it was White's FUCK THIS SHIT AGAIN shot or the 1st bullet by a thirsty cop shooting @ arms (left, then right shoulder) for even threatening a cop {which could also be questioned for realism since these fucks werent giving ANY shits about unloading on cops[see Mr.s Blonde, Pink, White], u already KNOW the cops are coming in shooting for that alone, fuck all the extra talking}.

& Also pardon self as I have to go back & switch that where I said NiceGuyEddie was MrBlonde.


peace

 

[LSN]

Didn't wanna start a new thread but I'm watching Scarface right now and have a question as well...why did it take so damn long for the dude who shot Tony in the back to climb the rope?