Condi's Mandate For African-American Churches and Africa

Mello Mello

Ballz of Adamantium
BGOL Investor
I can already see Cadillac sales rising.

Rice says she wants more African American churches and organizations to get together and craft Africa’s policy. AA pastors now see it as a mandate. I think this is exactly what AA’s need to make ties with Africa and Condi is on the right track, even though its primary objective is about fighting AIDS I believe these pastors seem to have more in mind.

I also think Rice could have advocated the whole of AA community instead and not only just church groups. But the civil rights movement was started in church maybe folks will jump on the band wagon. This past weekend I’ve been thinking of how AA could pick up were Malcolm X and Marcus Garvey left off, about making better connections with Africa, and here you go.

But Rice is still suspect because she’s under Bush’s administration and this might be the kind of weight Bush needs to do what he wants in the Dark Continent without us acting belligerent...in a way I am against another crusade into the Dark Continent but maybe this is what’s needed. I just hope this isn’t more right-wing propaganda. I would really like to see more blacks invested in Africa…like Randal Robinson (Jackie Robinson’s Son) for one.

I seriously hope these conservative preachers don’t make us look bad and harm the AA image even more than it already is. Hope these guys go over there and represent.

Sheeeeiiiiiiiitttt….I bet Condi has 2nd thoughts about running for president. She said she wouldn’t on an episode of Meet The Press, but these tactics….what better way to show your Pro-Black and not a sellout puppet than to help Africa.

My question is how long do they plan to extend this mandate?

What ulterior motives does bush have up his sleeve?

Why not the other Black NGO’s ?

This still smells fishy. What do ya’ll nuggaz think?




http://www.jifunza.com/jifunzaNavig....com/Articles/ViewArticle.aspx?ArticleID=1509
 
the only thing stopping any good from coming from this is people's desire for something good to come for this.

there are many government programs being wasted by blacks just because its not the correct party.
 
How about separation of church and state? This seems like a violation of the constitution. Why do I want some fake christian designing international affairs?

What makes TDJakes or Creflo able to intelligently design policy for HIV management or dealing with orphans? Is it their ability to be frauds who act in opposite manor to the ones they claim to follow? Or is it their possession of RollsRoyces?

Pure bullshit.

How about sitting down with the AMA, the Red Cross and the African Union to design a plan on HIV(medical-AMA) and orphans(humanitarian aid-RedCross) in Africa (african affairs- African Union)?

Garbage

fuck that sellout whore and her master, condi missed her calling as a customer service rep for sprint.
 
I'm glad Rice is pushing this and I support her entirely. I would love to see her run in 08.
 
@ Dolemite

I feel you. TD Jakes has practically been sleeping in the bed with right-wingers.

@Costanza

I'm glad she is pushing this as well. I just hope my cynicism is wrong about hidden agendas that Bush might have in place.
 
Mello Mello said:
@ Dolemite

I feel you. TD Jakes has practically been sleeping in the bed with right-wingers.

@Costanza

I'm glad she is pushing this as well. I just hope my cynicism is wrong about hidden agendas that Bush might have in place.
I don't care about that if it is true. He is completely unqualified. Who voted for TDJakes? They might as well get Nelly since he is as skilled in solving international health disasters. What makes Jakes anyone to be called on?

The point is there are many groups in this nation that are popular and have a certain belief system, the attempt to give political power to this one, although distasteful to me personally, is completely without merit. Jakes isn't even skilled at dispursing his own massive funds amongst the poor here or in Africa.

If Jakes and others have solicited this they should be rejected. Why are only black christian groups being consulted? Why doesn't he consult Farrakahn and the NOI(whom I don't care for either)? I hope someone sues the Federal Government over this.
Why not consult Oprah? Snoop Dogg? Any black person that buys into this bullshit is a fool.

If you really care about black people with HIV in Africa and the orphans they leave behind, why not assemble the best EXPERTS on the subject of orphans, humanitarian aid, HIV treatment, Medicine in general and African social and political affairs to compose a real solution to these issues?


If you think assembling some religion pimps is as good as that than you are fools. This is lip service and bullshit to give as a handout to help Condi and Bush generate support in the Black community. The aid to Africa is needed the bullshit isn't. Be serious. Don't use HIV and orphans as a fuckin political tool. Assemble the educated experts who have spent their lives studying and dealing with these situations, not assholes who want to see your paystub and autotransfer 10% of your wages before you can join their church.
 
typical jesus hating dolemite. your perfect world includes marginalizing churches, killing all soldiers, feeding pie and ice cream to terrorist, going back in time to put young condi in the Birmingham church to be bombed.

the vast majority of people in america are christians including blacks in america. if you want to reach the largest number of blacks you go to farrakkan? i know you'll never understand why but thats retarded ass logic.

TD jakes and others arent being used as experts to solve AIDS genius. they are being used in their limited capacity to alleviate SOME suffering.

you know real suffering. not that made up suffering you use to justify wishing death on people.

sitting their bitching and moaning and complaining about separation of state. let me guess, the government isnt supposed to acknowledge the good churches do just because you dont like it. churches are more efficient at helping people than the bureaucracy has ever proven to be.

but you dont like it in typical dolemite fashion. thank god you'll forever be just some guy complaining over the internet and wont be able to actually stop anyone attempting to do some good.

now i have to wait for the other jesus haters to come in and cosign with you. this should be good.
 
Greed said:
now i have to wait for the other jesus haters to come in and cosign with you. this should be good.
So now TD Jakes is Jesus. GW Bush is America and TD Jakes is Jesus. Funny, although I doubt the pictures of him with blonde hair and blue eyes are accurate, I don't ever recall seeing a pic of him with a white silk suit and gators on either.

LOL

I can't believe the childish shit you attempt to use to influence people on this board actually works on a national level for the right wingers. Inflate, exaggerate, distort, LIE. I don't think I've ever heard Dolomite or anyone else on this forum wish a soldier dead or curse Jesus. Like I said before, in your delusional mind, anyone that doesn't agree with you (or should I say your handlers, because your incapable of producing an original thought that Bill O'Reilly didn't spoon feed you) is the enemy of all things good and decent in humanity.

Under normal circumstances, you'd be diagnosed as a nutcase, but, for the time being, your a patriot (in a loose "Nazi Youth" sense of the term).
 
Zero said:
So now TD Jakes is Jesus. GW Bush is America and TD Jakes is Jesus.
did i say that or is this what i would have said in that imaginary room i was in using your psychic powers?

anyway, the real show isnt dolemite, the board will always have an extremists, but the real show is people like zero and gengis khan that will come in and cosign with him. i love that part.

come on zero, tell us more how sensible dolemite must be and how he hasnt wished death on all soldiers and didnt wish condi rice was blown up in a birmingham church as a little girl.

or better yet rationalize how cosigning with him isnt bad because i cosign with the government on certain issues.

i cant wait. i'm riveted.
 
Greed said:
did i say that or is this what i would have said in that imaginary room i was in using your psychic powers?

anyway, the real show isnt dolemite, the board will always have an extremists, but the real show is people like zero and gengis khan that will come in and cosign with him. i love that part.

come on zero, tell us more how sensible dolemite must be and how he hasnt wished death on all soldiers and didnt wish condi rice was blown up in a birmingham church as a little girl.

or better yet rationalize how cosigning with him isnt bad because i cosign with the government on certain issues.

i cant wait. i'm riveted.
Dog, I'm not talking about Dolemite, I'm talking about your stupid assed generalizations like "Jesus haters". The conversation wasn't about Jesus, if Condi was handing the handling of the crisis in Africa DIRECTLY over to Jesus, I doubt many would have a problem, but he's dead and she's not, so TD Jakes is an acceptable substitute. Dolemite said EXPERTS in the areas that directly affect Africa should be placed in these positions and not preachers that can't seem to clean up drug and poverty problems three blocks from their churchs because they don't have any change left after their Bentley note is paid. You responded to that comment by saying Dolemite was a "typical Jesus hater". That makes you the dumb fuck in this particular post, not him. I've never read him make a comment about ALL soldiers deserving to die and I believe you are taking the comment made about the B-ham church bombing WAY out of context (I may be assuming that based upon the fact that you take most comments that are contrary to your political and ideological beliefs WAY out of context).

You love to align yourself with Tian, but Tian is rational and tends to not regurgitate every damn thing he hears on Fox news and PTL without first applying some fucking logic to it. You rant, rave, name call and tend to make little, if any sense (unless your cutting and pasting an article from someplace). Your arguments are weak, so you reinforce them with arguments, whining and name calling. Typical strategy of an extremist (be that extremist lefty OR righty).
 
thats how fucking stupid your post and your analysis of the situation is. did the article say Dr. Rice is handing over america's AIDS in africa policy to TD jakes or anyone else? no, but let me guess you heard that in that imaginary room too.

you and dolemite are retards if you think the US prefer preachers to cure AIDS than experts.

the same way you think churches are there to fix the fucking drug and poverty problems in community. thats government jobs. you and the other jesus haters are so desperate to find reason to down religious people that you'll sit there and distort reality that its churches jobs to cure society's injustices instead of what churches are really attempting to do, which is HELP. do you know what help is? most likely not since YOU generalize and spit on a whole group of people as bentley drivers taking advantage of their congregation. yea, thats a good description of black churches. but then again what do i expect from a board that considers Dr. King a sellout.

these people can possibly HELP the situation. a decent human being doesnt complain because someone you dont like is being asked to HELP a terrible situation. complain if its a total failure. dont complain like a whiny bitch because an effort is being made. where are your priorities? but then again what sound moral judgement do i expect from dolemite and company.

I've never read him make a comment about ALL soldiers deserving to die and I believe you are taking the comment made about the B-ham church bombing WAY out of context (I may be assuming that based upon the fact that you take most comments that are contrary to your political and ideological beliefs WAY out of context).
does that mean he didnt say all the soldiers deserve to come home in plastic bags just because you didnt fucking see the comment. i dont even know why you're focusing on the shit. its not like you'll stop cosigning with him.

and BTW, tell me the proper context for saying Dr. Rice should have been one of the little girls in that church. i would love to hear some more about how deathwisher is misunderstood.

and for the record i dont align myself with tian like this is high school for me. he's a self described black conservative. i'm not. i just dont suck democrat dick and wish america fails when it commits resources to an endeavor.

people like you are always looking for reasons to complain, and lump everyone not like as one big "other" group.

but i'm sure tian appreciates the fact that you respect his arguments but then again you also agree with dolemite's sensibilities, so tian's probably vomiting right now.

now go ahead and respond to what i might have said in the magic room rather than what i just posted.
 
Greed said:
thats how fucking stupid your post and your analysis of the situation is. did the article say Dr. Rice is handing over america's AIDS in africa policy to TD jakes or anyone else? no, but let me guess you heard that in that imaginary room too.

you and dolemite are retards if you think the US prefer preachers to cure AIDS than experts.

the same way you think churches are there to fix the fucking drug and poverty problems in community. thats government jobs. you and the other jesus haters are so desperate to find reason to down religious people that you'll sit there and distort reality that its churches jobs to cure society's injustices instead of what churches are really attempting to do, which is HELP. do you know what help is? most likely not since YOU generalize and spit on a whole group of people as bentley drivers taking advantage of their congregation. yea, thats a good description of black churches. but then again what do i expect from a board that considers Dr. King a sellout.

these people can possibly HELP the situation. a decent human being doesnt complain because someone you dont like is being asked to HELP a terrible situation. complain if its a total failure. dont complain like a whiny bitch because an effort is being made. where are your priorities? but then again what sound moral judgement do i expect from dolemite and company.


does that mean he didnt say all the soldiers deserve to come home in plastic bags just because you didnt fucking see the comment. i dont even know why you're focusing on the shit. its not like you'll stop cosigning with him.

and BTW, tell me the proper context for saying Dr. Rice should have been one of the little girls in that church. i would love to hear some more about how deathwisher is misunderstood.

and for the record i dont align myself with tian like this is high school for me. he's a self described black conservative. i'm not. i just dont suck democrat dick and wish america fails when it commits resources to an endeavor.

people like you are always looking for reasons to complain, and lump everyone not like as one big "other" group.

but i'm sure tian appreciates the fact that you respect his arguments but then again you also agree with dolemite's sensibilities, so tian's probably vomiting right now.

now go ahead and respond to what i might have said in the magic room rather than what i just posted.
See, it's irrational bullshit Greed. But you see the problem as being everyone else's. You project every single hangup and issue you possess onto anyone that disagrees with you. There are plenty of so-called conservatives on this forum that can discuss an issue without having a tantrum like a 5 year old, but YOU are not one of them.

Like I said before, your good at the cut-n-paste, why not stick to that and leave the actual discussions to the non-bipolar among us.

Tian, please reign in your paranoid assed homey, he seems to listen to you.
 
Like I said, Jakes and his kind are not the only people out there in our community or others, with a large backing or an eye for social change or a belief system. Why not consult the NOI? The NOI definitely has a broader history of trying to support social change amongst blacks than Jakes does. This is a bullshit political maneuver to buy black votes.

The fact remains that Jakes and these others have no experience in INTERNATIONAL HEALTH DISASTERS(or national and statewide health disasters), DEALING WITH MILLIONS OF ORPHANS(or running an orphanage for that matter. I could be in error, please provide proof if they have orphanages.) or DEALING WITH ANY SOCIAL OR POLITICAL CRISIS HERE OR IN AFRICA. So other than their supposed belief system what makes these people more desirable than any other Americans to consult on such matters?

So far I've only read

you think churches are there to fix the fucking drug and poverty problems in community

I get it, they are not there to solve problems like drug addiction or aiding the empoverished on a local level, which are simple in comparison to the other international affairs they are to be consulted on. I suppose those local projects are too simple for them to waste time on.

Just in case I have it wrong, what skills do these people possess that do not translate on a local, state or national level in the US that make them fit to consult on an international level?

LMAO Bush could do better by mailing every black person a lottery ticket. It would make more sense and cost less.





---------
Troll faggots who enjoy the bait and switch more than logical discourse are no more than a mild amusement and generally don't warrant response.
 
Zero said:
See, it's irrational bullshit Greed. But you see the problem as being everyone else's. You project every single hangup and issue you possess onto anyone that disagrees with you. There are plenty of so-called conservatives on this forum that can discuss an issue without having a tantrum like a 5 year old, but YOU are not one of them.

Like I said before, your good at the cut-n-paste, why not stick to that and leave the actual discussions to the non-bipolar among us.

Tian, please reign in your paranoid assed homey, he seems to listen to you.

Zero you shouldn't bother talking to NateFisher in blackface. If you would take note 99% of the shit he is trying to bait you into discussing has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Read his posts in every thread. He lacks the mental ability to formulate legitimate responses to the arguments various people present so he jumps to his next best tactic, making an inflammatory bullshit assertion. This is why message board and newsgroup trolls are called "Flamers" although it could have something to do with their homosexuality.

That bitch ruins more fuckin threads with his bullshit. The only other bitch on BGOL to do that is NateFisher.
 
Dolemite said:
How about separation of church and state? .

Co-sign :)

Our country was based on the seperation of church and state yet we are steady on this road to a theocracy. I don't see how any government official feels the need to reach out to any particular religous organization concerning foreign policy. Especially black churches because if you listen to jesse lee "ain't no African in him". I doubt the conservative preachers have a more expanded view of their African brothers.

To me it is just another money thing. If the government can get its foot in Africa and use the AA churches as its 'blackface" then its a win win. If the money grubing mega churches can get them some African converts (not to mention funneling government contracts) and donations then they win also.

The government and the churches are both fear and intimidation organizations the government uses fear of terrorism and patriotism while the church uses fear of hell and eternal damnation.
 
LHOH

bullshit assertion huh?

it was just last week you were proud of what you said, now its a bullshit assertion. so sad when you pick and choose to be honest.

and you're the biggest retard here. i said they're there to help and you said they should be aiding the impoverished. who's asking them to deal with an international health crisis genius? who's asking them to deal with MILLIONS of orphans genius. they are being asked to do what they can in coordination of the government.

poor kids thought being AIDS ophans in africa was about them, but it turns out dolemite has to like who's doing the helping. fuck it, its not your suffering.

you and your attention whoring pretending that america is making jakes a cabinet secretary is only working on the usual suspects. like usual america is lucky thats where you influence stops.

always funny to see a bunch of people more worried about who's suggesting a solution rather than what the solution is or it's execution. poor african kids have to rely on you to approve of any effort to help them.

all in all zero and gengis didnt disappoint. great show.
 
Temujin said:
Co-sign :)

Our country was based on the seperation of church and state yet we are steady on this road to a theocracy. I don't see how any government official feels the need to reach out to any particular religous organization concerning foreign policy. Especially black churches because if you listen to jesse lee "ain't no African in him". I doubt the conservative preachers have a more expanded view of their African brothers.

To me it is just another money thing. If the government can get its foot in Africa and use the AA churches as its 'blackface" then its a win win. If the money grubing mega churches can get them some African converts (not to mention funneling government contracts) and donations then they win also.

The government and the churches are both fear and intimidation organizations the government uses fear of terrorism and patriotism while the church uses fear of hell and eternal damnation.

I fear hell and damnation but somehow it inspires me to act in accordance with the morals described in the bible rather than the ways these christians do.



Some excerpts from the LA Times article:




The hourlong session focused largely on how the administration's faith-based initiative could be expanded to combat the spread of HIV and provide help for tens of millions of children orphaned by the epidemic across Africa.

Some of the pastors said it was a matter of national security — that those orphans were susceptible to recruitment by Islamic extremists unless they could be exposed to churches such as theirs.

This is setting a precedent as preferring a certain religion above others which is a clear violation of the Constitution.
I told yall this was the Crusades. The Crusades never ended.
So now they want to convert Africa to their version of christianity to stop terrorism.



If it goes forward, the collaboration could result in a substantial expansion of black church participation in the faith-based initiative, from a largely domestic focus to a broader overseas portfolio that pastors believe could make hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars available for the churches to combat AIDS and related social ills internationally.

Rice and the pastors discussed the possibility of establishing an office of faith-based initiatives within the State Department that would direct federal funds for overseas aid to church and community groups, as similar offices have done in other Cabinet agencies.

The 2nd notion seems totally illegal.





Illustrating the political benefit of that relationship, White House officials injected some Capitol Hill strategy into the session. They solicited support among the black pastors for controversial legislation that would allow faith-based charities in the U.S. to discriminate in hiring based on an applicant's religious beliefs — a provision that has spurred opposition from some Democrats and civil rights groups.
More illegality.





"Compassion has a way of cutting across partisan lines," said James Towey, the top White House official in charge of the faith-based programs, who asked the pastors to sign a letter endorsing the legislation.

But rather than lowering partisan suspicions, the meeting raised them. The high-level session occurred the same day that the all-Democratic Congressional Black Caucus conducted a long-planned outreach meeting with 200 black pastors from across the country seeking to solidify bonds between the Democrats and religious leaders. Some saw the State Department meeting as an effort to upstage the black caucus.

The heart of the matter. The White House competing with the Congressional Black Caucus and its "long-planned" outreach meeting with 200 black pastors from across the naion.

TD Jakes and others helping to fight against the Congressional Black Caucus.



Brett Schaefer, an expert on Africa and foreign aid for the conservative Heritage Foundation, applauded the idea of engaging more black churches in the fight against AIDS in Africa. But he questioned the wisdom of using the program to counter Islamic extremism. "The U.S. should be careful that these projects … be focused on actual assistance rather than proselytizing," he said.



Several ministers at the State Department meeting signed the letter distributed by Towey endorsing the White House-backed provision on religious hiring, giving the administration a weapon to neutralize opposition to the measure when it comes before the Senate as early as next month.
Getting religious leaders to help break the Constitution.



"We encourage churches to adopt Africa as a priority, just as Israel is a priority for Jewish Americans," Blake, founder and director of the Pan African Children's Fund, said in an interview after the White House meeting.
Helping Africa should not have a religous aspect to it at all.
Those who follow the King of Jews should hold Israel as a priority for themselves too.



Blake presented literature for Rice and the White House, explaining what he called the "Pan Africa movement" and the work his organization did to help AIDS orphans. He cited the potential benefits that an expanded U.S. church effort would have on the war on terrorism in countries such as Sudan, Nigeria and Kenya, where cells of Islamic extremists have been tracked. The millions of orphans in those countries are "susceptible to recruitment" by terrorists and their sympathizers, Blake wrote.

While proponents cannot attest to their strength in changing any social ills in their own communities, they now want to convert Africa before it turns totally Islamic and anti-American.


Now the truth of this meeting is revealed. Anti-Congressioinal Black Caucus. Anti-Islamic. Anti-Constitution. Pro-Republican. Pro-Christianity.
Pro-paganda.

In the whole article I read not one remark about helping Africa and its problems because it was simply the right thing to do or doing it without regard to negative alterior motives.
 
Greed said:
LHOH

bullshit assertion huh?

it was just last week you were proud of what you said, now its a bullshit assertion.
"jesus haters" =Bullshit assertion
killing troops = Bullshit assertion
You brought these concepts up in this thread.

Thanks for coming back to help point out your methods.
What does this have to do with the topic of the thread? Nothing aka bullshit

Greed said:
who's asking them to deal with an international health crisis genius? who's asking them to deal with MILLIONS of orphans genius.

LATimes Article in question said:
The hourlong session focused largely on how the administration's faith-based initiative could be expanded to combat the spread of HIV and provide help for tens of millions of children orphaned by the epidemic across Africa.

Read the article ignorant bitch.





LATimes Article in question said:
If it goes forward, the collaboration could result in a substantial expansion of black church participation in the faith-based initiative, from a largely domestic focus to a broader overseas portfolio that pastors believe could make hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars available for the churches to combat AIDS and related social ills internationally.

Looks like your friends in the White House did "genius". Anything else "smart" to say?
Not convinced you're a moron?
Here let me help you out.

Rice and the pastors discussed the possibility of establishing an office of faith-based initiatives within the State Department that would direct federal funds for overseas aid to church and community groups, as similar offices have done in other Cabinet agencies.


You're a fuckin idiot. Like I said, you are natefisher an ignorant troll running your mouth but saying nothing of substance. If you want to discuss other shit like Iraq or troops do it in the appropriate post and it might not be viewed as bullshit assertions for the same reasons your assertions are bullshit here.


idiot said:
poor kids thought being AIDS ophans in africa was about them, but it turns out dolemite has to like who's doing the helping. fuck it, its not your suffering.

It does not serve the public trust to give government tax dollars to people unable to deliver services. What vendor with no references wins a highly important government contract? None.
Like I asked before, what qualifies these people and organizations to deliver these types of international aid programs? So far you are still unable to answer.

Typical bullshit from the usual natefisher protege.

Props to you greed for letting me own you. Peace out homie
 
Last edited:
Cosign Dolemite :D

Reading that article it sounds like the bush administration is more interested in solidifing their neo-conservative theocracy through alliance with the AA churches then helping the African people. This faith based initiative is hillarious to me, where are the islamic groups, the jewish groups why can't they go to Africa and help. It really should be Jesus-based initiative AKA "funding the crusade".

Its real funny to me thank Condi and the boys are looking to the black churches to help out Africa when all I hear from black conservatives is your not African your American. That is why to me it seems to come from a place other than genuine.

The Bush administration has shown they have no intention of helping anyone they are interested in control, power and money. Remeber they were supposed to be "helping" the afghanastan and the Iraqi people.

O yea
Co-sign Dolemite :D
 
word Temujin the old adage of "with friends like that who needs enemies" definitely applies

Like catholic orphanages used to "help" native tribes in the Americas learn how to leave all those primitive ways of the past.
 
Temujin said:
Cosign Dolemite :D

Reading that article it sounds like the bush administration is more interested in solidifing their neo-conservative theocracy through alliance with the AA churches then helping the African people. This faith based initiative is hillarious to me, where are the islamic groups, the jewish groups why can't they go to Africa and help. It really should be Jesus-based initiative AKA "funding the crusade".

Its real funny to me thank Condi and the boys are looking to the black churches to help out Africa when all I hear from black conservatives is your not African your American. That is why to me it seems to come from a place other than genuine.

The Bush administration has shown they have no intention of helping anyone they are interested in control, power and money. Remeber they were supposed to be "helping" the afghanastan and the Iraqi people.

O yea
Co-sign Dolemite :D
greatest show on earth.

genghis can you act a little better and pretend like you didnt know dolemite was an extremist and wishes death troops and others.

i like when you guys are in denial the best.

you know spice up the dialogue a bit. i already said you'd come in here and cosign, but i expected something more dramatic.
 
yeah keep talking about bullshit now that youve been exposed as an idiot

Greed said:
who's asking them to deal with an international health crisis genius? who's asking them to deal with MILLIONS of orphans genius.

LATimes Article in question said:
The hourlong session focused largely on how the administration's faith-based initiative could be expanded to combat the spread of HIV and provide help for tens of millions of children orphaned by the epidemic across Africa.

LHOH

Greed's reply?

Greed said:
...........

LMBAO
 
your demented logic that says churches shouldnt be contacted and recruited to help overseas problem is also the same logic that makes you believe troops should be killed, Rice should have died as a child, and that religion is just a crutch for the weak.

so now i'm going to treat you serious about any subject? well, why dont i just cosign with the kkk about immigration issues or pat buchanan about why the US should support israel.

so funny that you isolate a bunch of quotes saying how the administration explored whether this COULD be expanded, COULD make available funds, WOULD direct federal funds.

i said in almost every post in this thread that you people are bitching and moaning because they are exploring ways to use churches.

the problem isnt the plan, the problem for you is that the 2 parties involved is Bush43 who you hate and wish death on and all around him and black churches who you have Zero respect for.

leave it to you though to say jakes is practically an ambassador and the government awarded a "highly important government contract." you are so fucking dramatic. which i know of course. no one rational would sit there and wish hundreds of thousands of servicemembers should be killed or that even one should have died as a child in a church bombing just because he didnt like her.

BTW, where's your "obligation to humanity"...LHOH
 
in greed's response said:
blah blah KKK pat buchanan
change the subject aka "I was talking about churches"
make up some shit
you have zero respect for black churches

blah blah blah you said service members should die- you said Condi should die

Please quote where I said I have zero respect for black churches.
And he says more shit that doesn't apply.



greed said:
leave it to you though to say jakes is practically an ambassador

Actually leave it to you to say it, because I never said TD Jakes was an ambassador. Please quote where I did. More lies. You are digging yourself a deep hole this time.



greed said:
and the government awarded a "highly important government contract."

Hmmmm is that what I really said? Or was it an analogy since no contracts are being discussed?


Actually I said

It does not serve the public trust to give government tax dollars to people unable to deliver services.
What vendor with no references wins a highly important government contract? None.
Like I asked before, what qualifies these people and organizations to deliver these types of international aid programs? So far you are still unable to answer.

Typical bullshit from the usual natefisher protege.


I called into question the clergy members mentioned and their level of expertise in the arena they are being consulted in.

So far in 5 or so responses you and others who seem to be so optimistic in the merits of this faith-based idea can not manage to muster one lonely credential that shows these people are qualified to take on such responsibility. That entirely leaves out the other mitigating circumstances surrounding this highly dubious meeting of the minds at the State Department, like balking at the Constitution and using Black American Clergy to fight the spread of Islam, the last being a notion a member of the Heritage Foundation wouldn't fuckin touch with a 10 foot pole.

So thanks again Greed for trying to discredit me by showing how bad I can make you look by merely exposing your blatant stupidity. By the time you're done you will have boosted that American popularity your so sure I will never have. LMAO


Hey yall you know why I love greed? Because we could talk about Ice Cream and he will only talk about some shit I said about his girl condi. LMAO
Mufucka was president of the special education debate club rotflmbao
 
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i gotta go with dolemite on this. this sounds good but i doubt the sincerty of rice, jakes, etc. there are alot of people here who need help. my father always told me that charity starts at home. what is their motivation? they don't wanna help black people here in the us, so why would they try to help those on the other sided of the world, ulterior motives maybe...
 
whoa missed this bullshit since I dont read all the trash you say greed



greed said:
and that religion is just a crutch for the weak.

When did I say I believe that? More greed lies. Quote me directly even alluding to that. Fuckin Liar. You are mad weak to resort to blatant lies as your only hope of response.

To any neutral parties note how Greed makes up facts and blatantly LIES.






greed the liar said:
so funny that you isolate a bunch of quotes saying how the administration explored whether this COULD be expanded, COULD make available funds, WOULD direct federal funds.

How do you think government policy and acts come about? So do you think this meeting was bullshit and have no faith in it contrary to your hopes in earlier posts in this thread? Which is it? You can't think the meeting had no purpose and did have purpose at the same time, or can you? Greed logic 101 Yes means No and vice versa.

I can isolate the entire fuckin article for you to read moron. Would that help you stop making shit up? Or start telling the truth? or asking questions that expose the fact you either didn't read the article or are a complete idiot?











i said in almost every post in this thread that you people are bitching and moaning because they are exploring ways to use churches.

That is also a lie. I cite the post you made on 06-07-2005, 05:50 PM and 06-07-2005, 11:32 AM, and 80% of your responses in your other posts here.

You are on record again as a liar.












greed said:
the problem isnt the plan, the problem for you is that the 2 parties involved is Bush43 who you hate and wish death on and all around him
Have I ever suggested that?
More lies from a notorious liar. I think you are projecting your own personal agenda there.


You are a severely retarded bitch. Lies and bullshit
Make up quotes post no evidence. Turn an aids and orphans discussion into a discussion of Bush and Troops

I own you. Anyone who reads this thread will know you are a liar and a bitch with zero reading comprehension and zero logic.










greed said:
TD jakes and others arent being used as experts to solve AIDS genius. they are being used in their limited capacity to alleviate SOME suffering.
you know real suffering. not that made up suffering you use to justify wishing death on people.

LATimes Article in question said:
The hourlong session focused largely on how the administration's faith-based initiative could be expanded to combat the spread of HIV and provide help for tens of millions of children orphaned by the epidemic across Africa.

LMAO They are consulting them in regard to combating the spread of HIV you simpleton.










Greed said:
sitting their bitching and moaning and complaining about separation of state. let me guess, the government isnt supposed to acknowledge the good churches do just because you dont like it.
LMAO You can't even acknowledge the good they do in this fuckin thread after being directly asked many many times over and over as the major point of contention in this whole fuckin matter.
WHY ARE THESE PEOPLE QUALIFIED?








Greed said:
churches are more efficient at helping people than the bureaucracy has ever proven to be.

Since churches are so efficient at helping people - maybe you can answer the question I have been asking since 12:40 am


Dolemite 12:40am said:
What makes TDJakes or Creflo able to intelligently design policy for HIV management or dealing with orphans?

Dolemite 6:40am said:
If you really care about black people with HIV in Africa and the orphans they leave behind, why not assemble the best EXPERTS on the subject of orphans, humanitarian aid, HIV treatment, Medicine in general and African social and political affairs to compose a real solution to these issues?

Dolemite 2:30 PM said:
The fact remains that Jakes and these others have no experience in INTERNATIONAL HEALTH DISASTERS(or national and statewide health disasters), DEALING WITH MILLIONS OF ORPHANS(or running an orphanage for that matter. I could be in error, please provide proof if they have orphanages.) or DEALING WITH ANY SOCIAL OR POLITICAL CRISIS HERE OR IN AFRICA. So other than their supposed belief system what makes these people more desirable than any other Americans to consult on such matters?


Dolemite 4:12PM said:
While proponents cannot attest to their strength in changing any social ills in their own communities, they now want to convert Africa before it turns totally Islamic and anti-American.


Now the truth of this meeting is revealed. Anti-Congressioinal Black Caucus. Anti-Islamic. Anti-Constitution. Pro-Republican. Pro-Christianity.
Pro-paganda.

In the whole article I read not one remark about helping Africa and its problems because it was simply the right thing to do or doing it without regard to negative alterior motives.


Dolemite 4:52PM said:
Like I asked before, what qualifies these people and organizations to deliver these types of international aid programs? So far you are still unable to answer.


Dolemite 7:00 PM said:
I called into question the clergy members mentioned and their level of expertise in the arena they are being consulted in.

So far in 5 or so responses you and others who seem to be so optimistic in the merits of this faith-based idea can not manage to muster one lonely credential that shows these people are qualified to take on such responsibility. That entirely leaves out the other mitigating circumstances surrounding this highly dubious meeting of the minds at the State Department, like balking at the Constitution and using Black American Clergy to fight the spread of Islam, the last being a notion a member of the Heritage Foundation wouldn't fuckin touch with a 10 foot pole.











What makes these people qualified?
Since you have evidence to back up how efficient these churches are at helping people maybe you can show us the proof that brought you to make such a statement.

Please provide some data to backup your claim. This could also count towards showing why these people are qualitifed to administer an INTERNATIONAL AID PROGRAM to COMBAT HIV AND HELP ORPHANS.
 
you remind me of a weaker natefisher

all that shit out of your weak mouth and you can't back up one sorry point you tried to make

you're fuckin pathetic
 
So no one can see how any of these people are possibly qualified to do any of the things being discussed. Is this a repub 2 for 1? Setup Africa for further failure and buy black votes with empty promises and faulty plans?
 
An Epidemic Failure

Whatever happened to Bush's pledge to combat AIDS in Africa?

By GERALDINE SEALEY

When President Bush introduced his global AIDS initiative in January 2003 -- calling it "a work of mercy beyond all current international efforts" -- the plan certainly sounded promising. Bush pledged to spend $15 billion over five years to provide life-saving drugs to at least 2 million people with HIV, prevent 7 million new infections, and care for the sick and orphaned in fifteen countries. Most of the money, the president declared, would go to sub-Saharan Africa, home to the majority of the world's 40 million people living with HIV and AIDS. In the hardest-hit countries, nearly forty percent of the population is infected, and 12 million children across the region have lost at least one parent to the disease. "I believe God has called us into action," Bush declared during a trip to Uganda in 2003. "We are a great nation, we're a wealthy nation. We have a responsibility to help a neighbor in need, a brother and sister in crisis."

Dubbed the President's Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief (PEPFAR), the ambitious agenda provided the administration with some much-needed PR at the very moment it was preparing to defy international will by invading Iraq. But from the start, Bush has failed to deliver on the funding he promised -- and what little money he has provided is being used to promote a right-wing agenda that undercuts international efforts and puts millions of people in AIDS-ravaged countries at greater risk of infection and death.

Thanks to the president's foot-dragging, his "emergency plan" took its sweet time getting going. Bush requested only $2 billion for PEPFAR in its first year -- a billion less than one would expect. Then, when Congress decided to approve $400 million more than the president asked for, Bush unsuccessfully fought to block the increase. By the time the first relief funds arrived in Africa, nearly a year and a half had passed since the president announced his plan -- a costly delay in fighting an epidemic that claims 8,500 lives every day.

The administration insists it will meet its goal by 2008, saying it planned all along to gradually "ramp up" the program. But public-health experts say it looks increasingly unlikely that Bush will fulfill his promise -- and that even if he does, the money will fall far short of what is needed. According to UNAIDS, a partnership involving the World Bank and nine other international aid groups, the world needs to spend $20 billion a year by 2007 to wage an effective war against AIDS. What Bush proposes to spend annually, if funding remains constant, is less than half the $6.6 billion that America would be expected to contribute based on the size of its economy. "The fact that the United States can spend $300 billion on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan but cannot find a relative pittance to rescue the human condition in Africa -- there is something profoundly out of whack about that," says Stephen Lewis, the secretary-general's special envoy for HIV/AIDS in Africa.

The president's AIDS initiative, like his invasion of Iraq, is a go-it-alone affair that ignores the clear global consensus on how to fight AIDS. In launching his own initiative, Bush has shifted the bulk of U.S. money away from the Global Fund to Fight AIDS, Tuberculosis and Malaria, an international organization that has funded projects in 128 countries and is widely recognized as the best way to distribute AIDS funds. "Bush is starving the fund," says Dr. Paul Zeitz, executive director of the Global AIDS Alliance. "It's despicable, frankly."

In addition to shortchanging international relief efforts, Bush is using AIDS funds to place religion over science, promoting abstinence and monogamy over more effective measures such as condoms and sex education. Before overseas groups can receive U.S. funding, for example, the Bush administration requires them to take a "loyalty oath" to condemn prostitution -- a provision that AIDS workers say further stigmatizes a population in need of HIV education and treatment. Brazil recently became the first country to rebel against the oath, announcing in May that it was rejecting $40 million in AIDS grants from the administration. "What we're doing is imposing a really misguided and ill-informed ideology on top of a public-health crisis," says Jodi Jacobson, executive director of the Center for Health and Gender Equity in Takoma Park, Maryland.

Bush's plan calls for an "ABC" approach to HIV prevention -- which stands for abstinence, "be faithful" and condom use -- but the administration is stressing the "A." In its first year, PEPFAR spent more than half of the $92 million earmarked to prevent sexual transmission on promoting abstinence programs. Studies show that such programs actually increase risk by discouraging contraceptive use. What's more, focusing on abstinence and monogamy ignores the reality facing young women and girls in Africa and other impoverished regions, who are often infected by wandering husbands or forced to have sex in exchange for food or shelter. Among fifteen- to twenty-four-year-olds in sub-Saharan Africa, studies show, more than three times as many young women are infected with HIV as young men.

"It's only a matter of time before the impact of abstinence-only programs can be measured in needless new HIV infections," says Jonathan Cohen, an HIV/AIDS researcher with Human Rights Watch.

The emphasis on morality is being driven by social conservatives, who have made spreading the gospel of abstinence and monogamy to Africans their primary mission. "Condoms promote promiscuity," says Derek Gordon of the evangelical Christian group Focus on the Family. "When you give a teen a condom, it gives them a license to go out and have sex." At a congressional hearing in April, Rep. Henry Hyde threatened to cut funding for organizations that promote condoms. "The best defense for preventing HIV transmission is practicing abstinence and being mutually faithful to a non-infected partner," Hyde declared.

Nowhere is the effort by conservative Republicans to turn back the clock on sex education more pronounced than in Uganda. By aggressively promoting condom use and sex education, Uganda has managed to cut its HIV rate from fifteen percent of the population to barely six percent during the past decade, making it Africa's biggest success story. But under pressure from the Bush administration, Uganda has taken a dangerous turn toward an abstinence-only approach. In April, the country's Ministry of Education banned the promotion and distribution of condoms in public schools. To make matters worse, the government has even engineered a nationwide shortage of condoms, issuing a recall of all state-supplied condoms and impounding boxes of condoms imported from other countries at the airport, claiming they need to be tested for quality control. As of this year, a top health official announced, the government will "be less involved in condom importation but more involved in awareness campaigns: abstinence and behavior change."

The Bush administration is supporting the shift by pumping $10 million into abstinence-only programs in Uganda. "One can put a dollar figure on the political pressure," says Cohen, who has closely studied the initiatives in Uganda. "Groups know the more they talk about abstinence, the more they'll get U.S. funding. And they fear that if they talk about condoms they'll lose funding -- or, worse, get kicked out of the country."

Ambassador Randall Tobias, who serves as Bush's global AIDS czar, issued written guidelines in January that spell out the administration's agenda. Groups that receive U.S. funding, Tobias warned, should not target youth with messages that present abstinence and condoms as "equally viable, alternative choices." Zeitz of Global AIDS Alliance has dubbed the document "Vomitus Maximus." He says, "I get physically ill when I read it. It has the biggest influence over how people are acting in the field." And under a proposal being pushed by Republicans on Capitol Hill, Tobias would be given the power to divert even more money toward promoting abstinence. "All Republicans can think about is making Africans abstinent and monogamous," says a Democratic staffer involved in the negotiations. "It's the crassest form of international social engineering you could imagine."

The anti-condom order issued by Tobias is already having a chilling effect among the groups most effective at combating AIDS. Population Services International, a major U.S. contractor with years of experience in HIV prevention, says it can no longer promote condoms to youth in Uganda, Zambia and Namibia because of PEPFAR rules. "That's worrisome," says PSI spokesman David Olson. "The evidence shows they're having sex. You can disapprove of that, but you can't deny it's happening."

What's more, conservatives are attacking PSI for promoting condoms -- a campaign that prevented an estimated 800,000 cases of HIV last year. Focus on the Family recently denounced PSI as a "shady" and "sordid" organization that is leading Africans into immorality by promoting condoms. And in April, conservative Republicans in the House invited Martin Ssempa, a Ugandan minister, to Capitol Hill, to berate PSI and other public-health groups for "promoting promiscuity and condoms" in his country. This year, for the first time, U.S. funding for PSI has been reduced.

Groups that support the president's religious agenda, meanwhile, are beginning to receive money that has traditionally been devoted to more experienced organizations. The Children's AIDS Fund, a well-connected conservative organization, received roughly $10 million last fall to promote abstinence-only programs overseas -- even though the group was deemed "not suitable for funding" by an expert review panel. FreshMinistries, a Florida organization with little experience in tackling AIDS, also received $10 million. "Bush has enacted policies that will redirect millions of dollars away from groups that have experience fighting HIV and AIDS and toward groups that don't but are members of his religious constituency," says Cohen.

In the end, say public-health experts, the administration's diversion of funds away from tried-and-true HIV prevention methods is more than a misguided experiment -- it's a deadly game of Russian roulette that could mark a calamitous turn in Africa's attempts to get a handle on the AIDS epidemic. As Bush fails to make good on his promises, Africans continue to contract HIV and die from AIDS in the same numbers as they did during the worst phases of the epidemic.

"People will look back and say, 'Why didn't they stop the dying?' " says Zeitz. "Why don't we show our compassionate selves? What kind of country are we?"

http://www.rollingstone.com/politic...292781179&has-player=true&version=6.0.12.1040
 
typical bullshit - good read tehuti

the sellout Condi pops much shit with sellout reverends while Bush sabotages the african aids relief by refusing to help people who authorize distribution of condoms

all the people begging to give these assholes a chance to fuck things up worse should be forced to fuck hiv infected women raw

pure scumbags
and the assholes who follow them still can't muster any qualifications of these ministers-

maybe promoting bullshit lies instead of science and effective disease prevention is their qualification
 
The problem with religious groups and the fight against Aids is that they often put their values above science. Science says use a rubber, practice birth control and masturbate while lots of religions view all these things as sins. They would rather people contract aids then have them use a condom.
 
Good read Tehuti.

That is really sad. The bush administration is tying their AIDS money to their morality agenda. That is utterly ridiculous. They want these countries to trade lives for money. Uganda was making strides to lower their AIDS crisis and the bush administration puts pressure on them to stop giving out condoms in public schools. They are impounding condoms at the airport for a bullshit 10million dollar grant from the bushies. It is sickining the how the bush administration uses the crisis these countries are facing as a vehicle to push their conservative agenda.

In the last 10 years Uganda has reduced their Aids infected population from 15% to 6% and the Bush administration puts pressure on them to change their policies.
 
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