Comic Geeks - What do you think of how the MCU and DCU the good, bad & ugly

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This article gives an interesting take on how the whole thing is shaping up...
Good read

Why Ultron is a Secret Criticism of Marvel Movies
By J.F. Sargent May 03, 2015 42,439 views
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http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-secret-message-in-new-avengers-movie/


For those who haven't seen Avengers: Age Of Ultron (and by the way, hella spoilers in this article): Ultron is an artificial intelligence that exists inside ... well, it's not really explained, but he's like a global WiFi network that can hop from robot to robot. So the heroes have to make sure that not a single robot survives, or else he lives on. These are some of the very first words out of Ultron's "mouth" (Or speakers? Are his cheeks speakers?):

"You want to protect the world, but you don't want it to change."

Later, he says:

"I think you're confusing 'peace' with 'quiet.'"

And finally:

"Everyone creates the thing they fear ... parents create children."

Also, yes, his cheeks are totally speakers.


Marvel
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"Beats By Ultron"

The point is, Ultron is the shakeup, the dangerous aspect of filmmaking that the industry needs to preserve itself (or what it thinks it needs). Ultron isn't just a villain here -- he's a metaphor for everything that the Marvel Movies are doing to the art of filmmaking. Ultron is Kevin Feige, Lord Commander of the Marvel Cinematic Universe. And in order to explain this, I'm going to talk to you about theater. Ha! I tricked you into being nerdy, sucker. I'll come around your house when the article finishes to give you a wedgie and a swirlie.

In the beginning of the Tony-Award-winning Red, a fictionalized version of expressionist painter Mark Rothko explains that the purpose of art is to destroy the cool stuff that existed before you. "We destroyed cubism," Rothko says, "We stomped it to death. Nobody can paint a cubist picture today ... the child must banish the father. Respect him, but kill him." At the end of the play, when Rothko is a tired old artist and complaining about how younger artists don't respect his work, his assistant throws those words back in his face. That is ultimately the point of the play: When you're creating a new style of art, you have to wreck what came before it.


Marvel
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And these movies are pretty good at wrecking stuff.

Think about it. When Die Hard came out, with a hero who could actually bleed and made mistakes, all of the '80s indestructible heroes who wandered through hailstorms of bullets without blinking seemed ridiculous. It's suddenly impossible to relate to Commando, because Arnold approaches a firefight the way you approach a hungover Sunday morning supermarket trip. Or look at movies like Happy Gilmore and Ace Ventura: Pet Detective. Those were raunchy, edgy comedies when they came out, but they've been replaced by raunchier, edgier ones -- not because comedians have gotten edgier, but because the edge has moved. Adam Sandler's schtick has been ruined by crap like Jack & Jill, and as we just pointed out, jokes at the expense of transgender people have moved from "taboo and exciting" to "stupid and offensive."

And finally, show Indiana Jones or Aliens or any of your favorite action movies to a kid who's grown up watching The Avengers, and he or she is going to be bored. (Trust me, I've tried it. If you don't get them before a certain age, it's hopeless). Because children are stupid, and because the rules have changed, what's cool has changed, what's exciting has changed. There are different cues for them to pick up on. And that is exactly what Ultron represents.

Let's start on a superficial level. Like I said at the beginning, Ultron has spread his consciousness across every single robot in his army, which means he can only "die" whenever every single soldier in his army is destroyed. He even shouts "what doesn't kill me makes me stronger" while building a bigger, tougher version of himself, which then shreds the older, weaker, shittier Ultron into pipe cleaner. Just to make sure you got his point. Then, in the climactic battle on a flying city (these movies have gotten crazy weird, man), the characters say over and over that every single Ultron robot has to be destroyed, or else he will live on. It's a pretty cool way to raise the fight's stakes, and it's exactly how the Marvel Cinematic Universe works.


Marvel
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The robots are Marvel movies, and the Avengers are the audience.

Ultron is the MCU, and each movie is one of his robots. Remember The Incredible Hulk? Ha! Of course you don't, because everyone who isn't me hated that movie. And if it had been a standalone story, disconnected from any cinematic universe, we would've had to have a reboot (like with Spider-Man or the Fantastic Four) before we got any more Hulk movies. But because it's part of the MCU, that character got to piggyback on the success of Iron Man, Captain America, and Thor, and show up in The Avengers with no required backstory -- just vague hints that he's "the big guy." At this point, The Avengers was basically the coolest guy in the room, grinning and winking and saying "Remember Hulk? He's cool in movies, right?" And despite the fact that no cool Hulk movies exist in this Earth, we were all "Yeah, man! I love that Hulk guy! His movies are just grand!" because we wanted The Avengers to like us.

See, the MCU is stronger than any of its parts. Any one franchise can fail to catch on but still contribute to the success of the whole. Agents of SHIELD is an embarrassment, but characters from that show still got to show up in a major theatrical release this summer because they're part of the MCU. Thor: The Dark World and Iron Man 2 are both preettttty bad, but they both got big sequels because they're contributing to the success of The Avengers.

On top of that, the core Avengers -- Iron Man, Thor, Captain America -- all represent an older style of filmmaking. Each of those characters came from stories that pretty much stood alone. None of them picked up an old thread, or failed to resolve their core arcs because they needed to be part of something bigger. They're all fairly well self-contained, provided you skip the post-credits stingers. Nowadays, each story is a chapter in something far bigger: the Marvel story, which transcends petty things like "plot" and "arcs" and "wait, what the fuck is going on?"


Marvel
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"No seriously, why are you in this movie?"

This conflict between different narrative philosophies is Age Of Ultron's story, since Ultron wants to kill all humans and replace them with robots. He says there's an extinction-level event coming (which is itself foreshadowing the next Avengers movie), and that replacing humans with living metal is the only way to save life on the planet. This is a lot like how Mark Rothko wanted to destroy cubism and, I'm arguing right goddamn now, how the MCU wants to destroy the old style of filmmaking. It basically hocks a loogie right in the face of most of the rules about what makes a "good movie."

Most popcorn movies like this need a protagonist whom you identify with and who guides you through the story, but this movie has six heroes, none of whom have clearly defined arcs, and none of whom have needs or wants that are established or resolved. Another rule of filmmaking is to introduce every element that the story needs in the first 20 minutes. But here we have a seventh protagonist introduced in the last half hour, and there's no explanation as to why he wants or needs anything, or even why he's fucking purple. And then Purple-McWeirdo is the one who gets to kill Ultron. We get a scene with a magic swimming pool in a cave that has no explanation at all, and which probably breaks, like, a rule or two. Stellan Skaarsgard appears, and he's like, "Hey, what's up. I'm Stellan Skaarsgard." And that just can't be right. Roughly half the movie is more about the next movie in the franchise. It is, in short, everything movie snobs hate about modern filmmaking, and it's pretty goddamn aggressive about it.

Of course, there's one big difference here: Ultron loses (told you there'd be spoilers). Marvel hasn't been the underdog in this race in a long time, not since The Avengers did to the box office what ... well, what Mark Rothko did to Cubism.


Marvel
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And what Ultron does to everything he encounters.

My point is that the success of "cinematic universes" means the at-least-temporary extinction of one-off films. They can't coexist, because one is so much stronger than the other, and also voiced by James Spader and made out of vibranium. The point is that the future of cinema could go one of two ways: Either every movie will be a cinematic universe, and TV shows will interweave their plots with theatrical/digital releases, or ... not. And that divide is exactly what Avengers: Age Of Ultron is secretly about.

Um. It's also about superheroes punching robots. But I mean, whatever, right?

JF Sargent is an editor and columnist for Cracked and he could totally take Hawkeye in a fight. Follow him on Twitbook and Facer.

I like that all stories are interconnected but what annoys me the most are the reboots. everytime theres a new actor or new director it seems like the mandate is to restart the story from the origin AGAIN and go from there. :smh::smh:

Robert Downey Jr doesn't want to do Iron Man anymore so what does that mean for the Iron Man movies? Spiderman gets yet another reboot as does the fantastic 4.

They just need to GET ON with it rather than each new director must recreate the story from scratch only to end the trilogy so that the next director has to start all over again like Nolan did with Batman:smh:
 
Yeah, i'm tired of the reboots and origin stories as well. We know how spiderman, batman, superman all came to be. No need to keep telling us. Fantastic Four reboot i understand and will support it. Spiderman should have went with the Miles Morales version. We don't need another batman solo movie. Introduce other members of the family. Nightwing, Batwing, etc.

And let's be honest, marvel movies are doing really well, but there are some from this era that actually sucked. Iron Man 2 and 3. Both Thor moives were not great. But their future looks bright. Just don't reboot anything else.
 
This is my take.

MCU is all about the end game. Since the 1st iron man movie they was setting up for the avengers-Phase one.

Once the avengers were introduced phase 2 was to get you ready for Thanos/infinity war. Marvels end game is the infinity war! EVERYTHING in the movies is to get you to that point.

I personally like the way they are setting up the peices and giving us a background on the main characters. so once Infinity war drops just sit back and enjoy the ride.

Also since they announced the movies comin up that will complete phase 2 (ant-man) and phase 3:

b2qyramcqaawfy--112778.jpg


I believe marvel is using movies like comics. It wasn't just the infinity gauntlet 1st we had to have thanos quest, Than the silver surfers that led up to The Infinity Gauntlet mini-series.

IMO this is where DCU is failing they are throwing their hero's out there with no effective back story and most importantly no end game.

We have heard that B v S gonna have wonder woman aquaman in it. I'm sorry this has failure written all over it. We have seen how introducing multiple villains can kill a movie story, what happens when you try and introduce multiple hero's in 1 movie?

Schedule.jpg
 
Well I've enjoyed the Marvel films for the most part and DC is just playing catch up. Batman vs. Superman is critical to the DCU returning to the fray.
 
DC better do sum'n quick. They steadily goin' back to what's safe: Batman & Superman. If they can't crank out sum'n else on da level of The Watchmen or Dark Knight Trilogy then they're finished as far as comic book adaptations on da big screen are concerned.
 
DC better do sum'n quick. They steadily goin' back to what's safe: Batman & Superman. If they can't crank out sum'n else on da level of The Watchmen or Dark Knight Trilogy then they're finished as far as comic book adaptations on da big screen are concerned.

I would agree. But the Batman universe is so damn big they can always eat off that for a while. Superman would get burnt out fairly quick though.
 
I would agree. But the Batman universe is so damn big they can always eat off that for a while. Superman would get burnt out fairly quick though.

so big??? dude once you get past joker and more decent interpretations of penguin, catwoman and maybe riddler (who's just a version of joker when you think about it) the list of villians get lame pretty damn fast..:smh:
 
This is my take.

MCU is all about the end game. Since the 1st iron man movie they was setting up for the avengers-Phase one.

Once the avengers were introduced phase 2 was to get you ready for Thanos/infinity war. Marvels end game is the infinity war! EVERYTHING in the movies is to get you to that point.

I personally like the way they are setting up the peices and giving us a background on the main characters. so once Infinity war drops just sit back and enjoy the ride.

Also since they announced the movies comin up that will complete phase 2 (ant-man) and phase 3:

b2qyramcqaawfy--112778.jpg


I believe marvel is using movies like comics. It wasn't just the infinity gauntlet 1st we had to have thanos quest, Than the silver surfers that led up to The Infinity Gauntlet mini-series.

IMO this is where DCU is failing they are throwing their hero's out there with no effective back story and most importantly no end game.

We have heard that B v S gonna have wonder woman aquaman in it. I'm sorry this has failure written all over it. We have seen how introducing multiple villains can kill a movie story, what happens when you try and introduce multiple hero's in 1 movie?

Schedule.jpg

images


images


worked out pretty well for marvel...:dunno:

:lol::lol:
 
so big??? dude once you get past joker and more decent interpretat ions of penguin, catwoman and maybe riddler (who's just a version of joker when you think about it) the list of villians get lame pretty damnr fast.:

I don't think Ra's and Talias story have really been tapped into. Ivy, Two face, Robin and all his adaptations, Batgirl, will obviously be accompanied by Bats. For 1 franchise thats a big well to draw from. I cant think of any other franchise with as much depth outside of X-Men.
 
worked out pretty well for marvel...:dunno:

:lol::lol:
Thing is the ground work was already set up with previous stand alone movies that introduced us to the players in Avengers.

They won with a throw away movie in guardian!!!

I wasn't expecting much from that movie and was pleasantly surprised, but again it was able to be pulled off due to the ground work already laid in phase 1. Movie goer's had already been conditioned to understand the hero group phenomenon.

We got a good story and another layer building up to Infinity war. :yes:

If you look at the upcoming marvel movies there is excitement for most of them because you know its gonna be a decent story with a purpose.

I look at the upcoming DC movies and its just a combination of:
1232z3s.jpg



and

2652687-2507765705-9e2.j.jpg
 
i really wanna see DCwin. i like both marvel and dc and im a fan of superheros from both universes. but DC has to pull a fat rabbit out their hat to win. i feel like theyre rushing things to catch up with marvel with they should be taking their time and calculating things out. people are gonna pay to see movies if they are good. theyre not gonna say well if this movie isnt out by this time then im not gonna go see it. there needs to be more uniformity in the DC universe. the main thing hurting them is reboots.

also, is will smith playing two different characters in the dc universe?
 
how is it a competition between the two studios...:lol:

how does one win?

I think Marvel has found a formula thats worked for them..action driven spectacle (typified in Avengers and Guardians of the Galaxy) and DC found one that works for them dark brooding grit (typified in Dark Knight and Man of Steel).. I don't think its necessary for DC to have some unified storyline either all their hero stories can be stand alone (and probably should be) as it stand I don't think Marvel is doing that bang up a job of moving things toward Civil War or Infinity War.
 
well if theyre doing a justice league or crossing over heroes you could say its their version of a cinematic universe it may not be as linked as what marvel is doing but its the same realm of things

We'll see .
As of now they have Man of Steel
 
Why do people hate reboots? They reboot shit in the comics all the fucking time.

Reboots happen for the exact same reason this article exists. You can't have the character stay static every generation. It has to reflect the viewer.

See, the MCU is stronger than any of its parts. Any one franchise can fail to catch on but still contribute to the success of the whole. Agents of SHIELD is an embarrassment, but characters from that show still got to show up in a major theatrical release this summer because they're part of the MCU. Thor: The Dark World and Iron Man 2 are both preettttty bad, but they both got big sequels because they're contributing to the success of The Avengers.

On top of that, the core Avengers -- Iron Man, Thor, Captain America -- all represent an older style of filmmaking. Each of those characters came from stories that pretty much stood alone. None of them picked up an old thread, or failed to resolve their core arcs because they needed to be part of something bigger. They're all fairly well self-contained, provided you skip the post-credits stingers. Nowadays, each story is a chapter in something far bigger: the Marvel story, which transcends petty things like "plot" and "arcs" and "wait, what the fuck is going on?"

This is too true, and unfortunately DC is most likely going to follow suit.

Another rule of filmmaking is to introduce every element that the story needs in the first 20 minutes. But here we have a seventh protagonist introduced in the last half hour, and there's no explanation as to why he wants or needs anything, or even why he's fucking purple. And then Purple-McWeirdo is the one who gets to kill Ultron. We get a scene with a magic swimming pool in a cave that has no explanation at all, and which probably breaks, like, a rule or two. Stellan Skaarsgard appears, and he's like, "Hey, what's up. I'm Stellan Skaarsgard." And that just can't be right. Roughly half the movie is more about the next movie in the franchise. It is, in short, everything movie snobs hate about modern filmmaking, and it's pretty goddamn aggressive about it.
 
Why do people hate reboots? They reboot shit in the comics all the fucking time.

Reboots happen for the exact same reason this article exists. You can't have the character stay static every generation. It has to reflect the viewer.



This is too true, and unfortunately DC is most likely going to follow suit.

people hate the reboots because no one needs to see peter parker get bit by that goddamn spider or bruce wayne witness his parents murder every three movies..we all get it we all know it just keep going. James Bond has been going for over 40 years, over five actors and four or five directors and didn't have to reboot the series every time they got a new guy to play the roll or new director. If they did we'd have seen 3 or 4 different versions of Casino Royale. :smh:

Eric Bana played the Hulk in a flick that sucked..then Ed Norton played him in a flick that was much better now Mark Ruffalo plays him..3 different actors, 3 slightly different interpretations..great lets just get to the next adventure no need to reestablish why or how he has anger control issues or how he got to be the hulk in the first place...again.
 
people hate the reboots because no one needs to see peter parker get bit by that goddamn spider or bruce wayne witness his parents murder every three movies..we all get it we all know it just keep going. James Bond has been going for over 40 years, over five actors and four or five directors and didn't have to reboot the series every time they got a new guy to play the roll or new director. If they did we'd have seen 3 or 4 different versions of Casino Royale. :smh:

Eric Bana played the Hulk in a flick that sucked..then Ed Norton played him in a flick that was much better now Mark Ruffalo plays him..3 different actors, 3 slightly different interpretations..great lets just get to the next adventure no need to reestablish why or how he has anger control issues or how he got to be the hulk in the first place...again.
Or just do a "quick recap" intro like "The Incredible Hulk" had


It told the story in a nutshell, and kept it going. Don't see why Spiderman can't do the same. But we'll see how Marvel will handle "rebooting" Spiderman
 
Or just do a "quick recap" intro like "The Incredible Hulk" had


It told the story in a nutshell, and kept it going. Don't see why Spiderman can't do the same. But we'll see how Marvel will handle "rebooting" Spiderman

:yes::yes::yes::yes:
that should be the standard format for comic movies period marvel, dc etc... I get that actors and directors want to bring their spin to it and thats fine just condense that shit in the opening credit sequence and move on! Give the audience SOME credit for being smart enough to keep up with the story.
 
This is my take.

MCU is all about the end game. Since the 1st iron man movie they was setting up for the avengers-Phase one.

Once the avengers were introduced phase 2 was to get you ready for Thanos/infinity war. Marvels end game is the infinity war! EVERYTHING in the movies is to get you to that point.

I personally like the way they are setting up the peices and giving us a background on the main characters. so once Infinity war drops just sit back and enjoy the ride.

Also since they announced the movies comin up that will complete phase 2 (ant-man) and phase 3:

b2qyramcqaawfy--112778.jpg


I believe marvel is using movies like comics. It wasn't just the infinity gauntlet 1st we had to have thanos quest, Than the silver surfers that led up to The Infinity Gauntlet mini-series.

IMO this is where DCU is failing they are throwing their hero's out there with no effective back story and most importantly no end game.

We have heard that B v S gonna have wonder woman aquaman in it. I'm sorry this has failure written all over it. We have seen how introducing multiple villains can kill a movie story, what happens when you try and introduce multiple hero's in 1 movie?

Schedule.jpg

This. I'm more excited for the overall end game that the MCU is building up to.
 
I will give DC a chance but because they are trying to play catch up they are going to fuck up.

I liked MoS, (although I never realized it wasn't in color until about two weeks ago; thanks BGOL), but I don't really see a point in having to reboot Batman. Just have Affleck do an older Batman and leave it at that...that said I am not looking forward to these two DC movies next year. They don't seem interesting...exciting. Promo pics look fake, the trailer is abysmal.

Very

Rushed.

I just get the feeling that these movies are not in the sake of making movies. I'm not stupid, it's suppose to make money. But...I don't know. I'm not seeing the big picture here.
 
This is my take.

MCU is all about the end game. Since the 1st iron man movie they was setting up for the avengers-Phase one.

Once the avengers were introduced phase 2 was to get you ready for Thanos/infinity war. Marvels end game is the infinity war! EVERYTHING in the movies is to get you to that point.

I personally like the way they are setting up the peices and giving us a background on the main characters. so once Infinity war drops just sit back and enjoy the ride.

Also since they announced the movies comin up that will complete phase 2 (ant-man) and phase 3:

b2qyramcqaawfy--112778.jpg


I believe marvel is using movies like comics. It wasn't just the infinity gauntlet 1st we had to have thanos quest, Than the silver surfers that led up to The Infinity Gauntlet mini-series.

IMO this is where DCU is failing they are throwing their hero's out there with no effective back story and most importantly no end game.

We have heard that B v S gonna have wonder woman aquaman in it. I'm sorry this has failure written all over it. We have seen how introducing multiple villains can kill a movie story, what happens when you try and introduce multiple hero's in 1 movie?

Schedule.jpg

MCU IS BETTER RIGHT NOW THAN DC, MAYBE DC WILL CATCH UP BUT MORE THAN LIKELY THEY WONT; THE ONE THING ABOUT MCU IS THEY ARE STAYING TRUER TO THE COMICS THEN ANYBODY ELSE HAS BEFORE AND THE ACTORS THAT THEY GET ARE VERY BELIEVABLE AND PLAY THEIR CHARACTERS WELL; I THINK BATvsSUP HAS FAIL ALL OVER IT BUT IM SURE IT WILL MAKE MONEY...
 
MCU IS BETTER RIGHT NOW THAN DC, MAYBE DC WILL CATCH UP BUT MORE THAN LIKELY THEY WONT; THE ONE THING ABOUT MCU IS THEY ARE STAYING TRUER TO THE COMICS THEN ANYBODY ELSE HAS BEFORE AND THE ACTORS THAT THEY GET ARE VERY BELIEVABLE AND PLAY THEIR CHARACTERS WELL; I THINK BATvsSUP HAS FAIL ALL OVER IT BUT IM SURE IT WILL MAKE MONEY...

One thing that Marvel has that DC doesn't is that their CEO's and executives are the people who used to make the comics. I'm looking at SHIELD and the credits for the movies and I see names that used to be inkers, writers, artists, from about fifteen years ago (used to buy Wizard religiously).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think DC has the same track record when it comes to getting the people who made the material in book form, participate in making the movie form. Or at least they are not making the decisions. Even with the first two (read: four) Batman movies major decisions were made by WB. Although Disney owns Marvel now, decisions are made by Marvel execs at least on a basic level. Whedon got into it with Marvel, not Disney. I mean think about it: that would explain why DC's cartoons are so good and the live actions are so bad (or barely plausible). They get to do what they want when its animated, but there's too much when it involves people.

IJS
 
One thing that Marvel has that DC doesn't is that their CEO's and executives are the people who used to make the comics. I'm looking at SHIELD and the credits for the movies and I see names that used to be inkers, writers, artists, from about fifteen years ago (used to buy Wizard religiously).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think DC has the same track record when it comes to getting the people who made the material in book form, participate in making the movie form. Or at least they are not making the decisions. Even with the first two (read: four) Batman movies major decisions were made by WB. Although Disney owns Marvel now, decisions are made by Marvel execs at least on a basic level. Whedon got into it with Marvel, not Disney. I mean think about it: that would explain why DC's cartoons are so good and the live actions are so bad (or barely plausible). They get to do what they want when its animated, but there's too much when it involves people.

IJS

This is a great point...

Recently DC has been getting both great comic book talent and tv/film talent for example izombie.

To me it's the different philosophies...

DC has decided to keep its tv universe & film universe completely seperate.

And it worked well for them especially linking all the tv properties together, flash arrow

And their straight to DVD work is outstanding

Problem is Marvel made sure to invest more & more on the creative side and create one single universe where every property benefits from the other properties success on every single level.

Marvel considers EVERY property & format valuable, be it animation (now) action figures tv comics film etc.

I like DC idea originally but now it looks confused, basically victims of their own success.

No one wants to see a DIFFERENT flash on the big screen they love THIS one same goes for Arrow.

So now all the work backfires....if batman/superman fails or SS, now DC has the stigma of not bring able to produce quality movies.

AND Already Arrow is getting stale.

They SHOULD have developed Constintine to partner with its other series on wb. Same for Supergirl...

Gotham gets a pass.

But with the crazy success of Daredevil and the rise of SHIELD....marvel is taking tv from them which they used to have on lock cause of smallville.

They need to have big picture view like marvel does.

and LEARN To LIsten To YOUR Audience

I got bad feeling suicide squad isn't going to do what they hope it will...they are betting the house on leto....good luck with that.

While marvel just got spider man back.

Nuff said.

I used to be a big wizard fan too
 
Schedule.jpg


i still think it wouldve made a hell of a lot more sense to do the MoS sequel FIRST,introduce Batman Affleck in a end-credits stinger(have Clark and Lois meet Bruce when he comes to Metropolis),THEN do the solo Batman reboot/sequel and THEN do all the other films slowly leading up to Dawn of Justice
 
Schedule.jpg


i still think it wouldve made a hell of a lot more sense to do the MoS sequel FIRST,introduce Batman Affleck in a end-credits stinger(have Clark and Lois meet Bruce when he comes to Metropolis),THEN do the solo Batman reboot/sequel and THEN do all the other films slowly leading up to Dawn of Justice

essentially DC should do it the way Marvel did it..:rolleyes::rolleyes:

:giggle:

I don't see how this is a competition :dunno:
 
essentially DC should do it the way Marvel did it..:rolleyes::rolleyes:

:giggle:

I don't see how this is a competition :dunno:

Their plan makes no sense. They will introduce cyborg, wonder woman and aquaman in this Batman/Superman movie. Then have a Justice league movie. And then after that, give each character a solo movie? Backwatds. Solo movies should be done first, that way, when they all team up, each character will already be established.

DC is hoping that Suicide Squad will do what Guardians did for Marvel. They took an unknown group of characters (unknown to those that don't read comics) and got a hit movie. DC is hoping to do the same.
 
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I would agree. But the Batman universe is so damn big they can always eat off that for a while. Superman would get burnt out fairly quick though.

This is true but they keep goin' back to The Joker when they have Hush, Two Face, Black Mask, Scarface/The Ventriloquist, Calendar Man, Killer Croc, The Falcone Family, shidddd, they could go w/a Batman Beyond movie.
 
How Nolan and Snyder Ruined Superhero Movies

How the combined visions of Christopher Nolan and Zack Snyder laid the groundwork for DC Comics’ moody, mirthless, and (so far) lame movie universe.
The other week, thanks to a particularly enterprising bootlegger, Warner Bros. was forced into an early reveal of the first trailer for Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice—filmmaker Zack Snyder’s $200 million+ mega-blockbuster that pits Henry Cavill’s Superman against Ben Affleck’s cleft-chinned Batman.

But the early footage—the film isn’t due in theaters until March 25, 2016—served as yet another example of where DC Comics’ cinematic universe went wrong.
Christopher Nolan and Zack Snyder’s formula of dark hues, baritone voices, and humorless, stoic heroes is no longer as innovative as it was way back in 2005 when Nolan’s Batman Begins hit theaters. At the time, the Batman franchise had been hijacked by Joel Schumacher, whose gaudy, oversaturated monstrosity Batman & Robin led star George Clooney to issue an apology to fans at last year’s Comic-Con: “I just met Adam West and I apologized to him. Sorry for the nipples on the suit.” Furthermore, the Marvel Cinematic Universe (MCU) hadn’t been established, leading to misguided efforts like the stinker Daredevil, Ang Lee’s over-edited Hulk, and the cartoonish Fantastic Four. Nolan’s dark, realistic take on Batman served as a welcome respite from the superhero fray—an iconic hero facing bullets, knives, and real-world situations.

Things changed with 2008’s Iron Man, the first film in the canonized MCU. Filmmaker Jon Favreau and star Robert Downey Jr.’s spin on Tony Stark/Iron Man elegantly combined real-world commentary, huge action set pieces, and a wink-and-smile playfulness that set the template for future MCU entries, from Captain America: The First Avenger and Guardians of the Galaxy to this weekend’s Avengers: Age of Ultron. It struck just the right balance of seriousness and silliness, retaining that lighthearted comic book tone and allowing it to appeal to comic-consuming and superhero-loving fans of all ages.

The Batman v Superman trailer, however, exhibits that same gritty texture that is sure to envelope all current (and future) DC movies, and it’s more of a distraction. It’s an odd mélange of Nolan’s moody realness and Snyder’s wonky CGI—as exhibited in his Superman origin tale Man of Steel, featuring Russell Crowe’s Jor-El riding a dragon—with a huge heaping of self-seriousness. These films are devoid of any humanity and humor, the latter of which is typically supplied by helping hands like Michael Caine’s Alfred, Morgan Freeman’s Lucius Fox, or Laurence Fishburne’s Perry White. We don’t get the small, inward-looking moments. What’s it like, say, for Batman to patrol Gotham when there are no baddies around? How will Superman function in an office? Can he operate a Keurig, or will the machine just explode into a million pieces? Does he even have a job?

Look at the content of that Batman v Superman trailer. Everyone is so enshrouded in darkness you can barely see them. The characters look pained and miserable. There’s something to do with Superman being worshipped as a false idol, Bane-esque chanting, and melancholy to spare. “Fun” is probably the last word you’d use to describe this atmosphere.

How the combined visions of Christopher Nolan and Zack Snyder laid the groundwork for DC Comics’ moody, mirthless, and (so far) lame movie universe.
The comic book world wasn’t amazing just because it gave us larger than life characters that saved the damsel in distress from planet-destroying villains at the end of every arc. Comic book superheroes are outsiders blending into and learning to protect and love a world that doesn’t understand them. So we need to know why they’ve fallen in love with this world in the first place.

It’s most evident in Joss Whedon’s Avengers. Each hero is presented with different internal issues and emotions. We have Iron Man, all ego and genius coated with a dense layer of loneliness and abandonment. Thor, daddy issues mixed with family drama and a lack of understanding concerning local culture that leads to many endearing moments of comic relief. Captain America, a man from a different time trying desperately to fit in while leading a team of equally dysfunctional people. These are just a few of the examples of flawed characters that Marvel has developed in ways DC could only dream of.

Marvel just gets it. They remember this key aspect of what makes superheroes special. In fact, they understand it so well that they’re willing to invest in extra scenes and Easter eggs that reinforce the gleeful humanity of their characters. Examples [spoilers, of course] abound, from the shawarma-eating after the intergalactic pow-wow in the first Avengers to Howard the Duck popping up in Guardians of the Galaxy. Hell, Marvel was able to make a dancing baby tree creature more charming and hilarious to the public in one minute than any Nolan or Snyder character.

All this is not to say that Nolan’s recent Batman trilogy was a failure. It was anything but, and made DC and Warner Bros. a ton of dough. But it should’ve acted as a standalone franchise—not the blueprint for an entire movie universe. The cloud of success that surrounded Batman Begins and its bat brethren convinced the DC/WB powers that be that the same formula would apply to Superman, or Green Lantern, or—judging by the latest marketing materials—Aquaman and Wonder Woman (and presumably the rest of the Justice League), who all resemble extras from Sucker Punch. Why not try different things? Instead of making all the different members of the Justice League come off as dark, depressed sociopaths, why not add some zest, color, and humor to them? Some… life?

There’s also the issue of behind the scenes talent. Thanks to the grand vision of honcho Kevin Feige, Marvel’s cultivated a rich network of filmmakers from the world of indie cinema and television—people who are more concerned with story over spectacle. Joss Whedon (The Avengers), the Russo brothers (Captain America: The Winter Soldier), James Gunn (Guardians of the Galaxy), the list goes on. DC, on the other hand, opted for Snyder, who’d already struck out with what many consider the greatest graphic novel of all time, Watchmen. More importantly, the bulk of the superhero curation seems to be governed by the studio (Warner Bros.) instead of the comic book entity (DC)—unlike Disney subsidiary Marvel, who exercise a great deal more control over the way their valuable properties are cultivated.

And according to a report this week in The Hollywood Reporter, Warner Bros. is struggling to iron out the rest of their movie universe. The piece claims that Warner Bros. hired five writers to compete for a job on 2017’s Wonder Woman, and that scripts from three writers were commissioned for 2018’s Aquaman, “one of whom followed the studio’s direction only to be told the rules governing the universe had changed and his work no longer was usable.” Meanwhile, the story says that Wonder Woman director Michelle MacLaren was forced to leave the project when her “vision contrasted sharply” with that of the film’s screenwriter, Kelly Marcel (Fifty Shades of Grey).

“They just haven't been thorough about their whole world and how each character fits and how to get the most out of each writer's time by giving them direction,” a rep with knowledge of the process told THR. “Obviously, Marvel's very good at that.”

The jury, however, is still out. Warner Bros. is planning no less than 10 movies based on its stable of DC comic book characters through 2020, and there’s no doubting the richness of the source material, from Frank Miller’s classic series The Dark Knight Returns to All-Star Superman. All of these DC titles are imbued with a humanity and heart to them that makes you want to relate to their heroes’ myriad struggles. Why isn’t DC using this source material more effectively? Who knows. Maybe they’re buckling under the pressure. Or maybe they just don't feel they can due the characters justice. Or, and this is my favorite one, they simply don’t care enough about the characters and just see them as valuable commodities, and a way to replicate the over $7 billion in worldwide box office that Marvel’s reaped since Iron Man. Either way, Warner Bros. and DC need to churn out more layered, complex heroes fast. Otherwise, they risk being the punchline to a very costly joke.
 
This is DCU in the last 30 years:

Batman,Superman,Batman,Superman,Batman,Superman,Batman,Superman,Batman,Superman,
Batman,Superman,Batman,Superman,Batman,Superman,Batman,Superman,Batman,Superman,
Batman,Superman,Batman,Superman,Batman,Superman,Batman,Superman,Batman,Superman,
Batman,Superman..............

(-Green Lantern-) FLOP

Wait...wait...MCU printing money? We can actually use other characters???? I have an idea...let's use Aquaman, Wonder Woman, Cyborg.....but first????

BATMAN vs. Superman...:yes:

"Yea...that's the ticket!".....:smh::smh::smh::smh::smh:

:rolleyes:
 
This is true but they keep goin' back to The Joker when they have Hush, Two Face, Black Mask, Scarface/The Ventriloquist, Calendar Man, Killer Croc, The Falcone Family, shidddd, they could go w/a Batman Beyond movie.

Exactly. I dont even really like the "Batman" as a hero. But the city, the characters, and their individual interactions with him are so compelling that it keeps you interested even if your fav character(s) arent being displayed in that episode. The Joker is may fav character of all time. But Ill watch almost any Batman offering for the reasons I named. Frankly Im tired of seeing a millions peoples take on him as a character. Let him live in lore for awhile and flesh out the series for the casual people who dont know everyones back story. I think Ra's, Talias, and the league of shadows is something they need to go more in depth on. That shit could be its own fucking subseries in itself.
 
There’s also the issue of behind the scenes talent. Thanks to the grand vision of honcho Kevin Feige, Marvel’s cultivated a rich network of filmmakers from the world of indie cinema and television—people who are more concerned with story over spectacle. Joss Whedon (The Avengers), the Russo brothers (Captain America: The Winter Soldier), James Gunn (Guardians of the Galaxy), the list goes on. DC, on the other hand, opted for Snyder, who’d already struck out with what many consider the greatest graphic novel of all time, Watchmen. More importantly, the bulk of the superhero curation seems to be governed by the studio (Warner Bros.) instead of the comic book entity (DC)—unlike Disney subsidiary Marvel, who exercise a great deal more control over the way their valuable properties are cultivated.

THIS is the BIGGEST REASON why DCU is doomed to fail. The movies are being handled by "suits". Guys who most likely have NEVER read the comics books they are preparing to produce, so instead you have movies that don't satisfy the fans who kept these stories and characters alive but are created for profit and profit alone. It's the reason that WB only produces the same two characters over and over again Batman and Superman....they don't care about the product.

Kevin Feige is a fanboy who get's it. These no-named Warner bros. Clowns don't.
 
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