Chavez-Lee - Lee deserved to lose, in fact, he earned that loss

[Upgrade Dave]

I was very interested in the Chavez-Lee fight because it was really the first real, live middleweight for Chavez to fight. I was impressed by Chavez (it's hard for a middleweight to hurt a light heavyweight) but as usual, there's shenanigans with that guy where he can't give specimens before the fight and bullshit like that. But he worked hard and won a good fight.
Lee, on the other hand, looked like the superior, more skilled boxer but, despite everything Emmanuel Steward was telling him, fell into a dick swinging contest and instead continuing to outbox Chavez stood nose to nose with him and banged with him and got his ass whooped. Who the fuck goes toe to toe with an obviously bigger, harder punching guy? Boxers are getting dumber and dumber.
Sergio is going in a physical underdog but if he keeps moving, he can win. Just don't let them get him in that little ring.

Another couple things to chew on

Don't tell me Duane Ford is the "Dean of Judges" and go right back to questioning his and his fellow judges integrity. Either dude is a stand up guy or he isn't.

Just as people were running around with their heads on fire screaming "Boxing is dead!" for the umpteenth time, they draw a big crowd in El Paso for Chavez-Lee and they draw another big crowd in Newark for Adamek-Chambers the same night, also nationally televised by NBC.

 

[fourthstbully]

good fight. lee should have sticked to the script! chavez is turning into a better fighter than i expected. i think his size would give martinez problems, esp. if eats a couple of big shots, martinez might be in trouble.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

I agree.

I think getting those two late rounds ko's plays to his advantage as he can be confident that he's dangerous the entire fight. Unless he gets caught with something, I expect him to take Chavez into the deep water.

 

[Rick Ronson]

FOH

Chavez weighed 175 on fight night how long will this go on.

Will he step to 168 pounders with his shit or keep having
the fight night advantage

Is he ready for Ward...no but people are trying to match him with 154 Cotto

Foh

 

[Alaskanredman]

FOH

Chavez weighed 175 on fight night how long will this go on.

Will he step to 168 pounders with his shit or keep having
the fight night advantage

Is he ready for Ward...no but people are trying to match him with 154 Cotto

Foh

All of this is why I have no respect for dude. How do you step into every fight looking like a giant because of all of your games on the scales and duck all the tough fights in your weight division for years?

 

[Rick Ronson]

All of this is why I have no respect for dude. How do you step into every fight looking like a giant because of all of your games on the scales and duck all the tough fights in your weight division for years?

All of Roaches fighters have some shit with them nowadays.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

FOH

Chavez weighed 175 on fight night how long will this go on.

Will he step to 168 pounders with his shit or keep having
the fight night advantage

Is he ready for Ward...no but people are trying to match him with 154 Cotto

Foh

I agree with all this but that's how the game is played in today's boxing. They allow this kind of shit and certain camps are masters at it.
I've mentioned before how I think boxing should go back to day of the fight weigh-ins. It would force more guys to move to their rightful division. I think all the weight gamesmanship actually has hurt some guys like Ortiz and Peterson and probably Khan, all guys who should have moved up to welter long before any of them did (I think Pete is still a jr welter).

 

[Jordan Diddy Buk]

I agree with all this but that's how the game is played in today's boxing.

Exactly. He isn't doing anything different that most fighters. The only fighter who used to do the opposite is Manny. The weight limit is strictly for the weigh in. I don't see an issue with chavez.

 

[Alaskanredman]

I agree with all this but that's how the game is played in today's boxing. They allow this kind of shit and certain camps are masters at it.
I've mentioned before how I think boxing should go back to day of the fight weigh-ins. It would force more guys to move to their rightful division. I think all the weight gamesmanship actually has hurt some guys like Ortiz and Peterson and probably Khan, all guys who should have moved up to welter long before any of them did (I think Pete is still a jr welter).

While I know it's all in the game, when cats are going this hard with this shit... it is wack. But fuck it if you do it... you have no room to duck anyone in your division. Martinez shouldn't have had to chased this motherfucker for years.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

While I know it's all in the game, when cats are going this hard with this shit... it is wack. But fuck it if you do it... you have no room to duck anyone in your division. Martinez shouldn't have had to chased this motherfucker for years.

I agree.

It looks like Chavez-Lee did big numbers, nearly 2 million viewers while Pac-Bradley did just under a mil, ending anymore claims that he's the number one ppv draw or even tied for number 1 since Mayweather's floor seems to be a mil since he came back.

http://www.doghouseboxing.com/Benz/Benz0622ab12.htm

 

[Zeferino]

I agree.

It looks like Chavez-Lee did big numbers, nearly 2 million viewers while Pac-Bradley did just under a mil, ending anymore claims that he's the number one ppv draw or even tied for number 1 since Mayweather's floor seems to be a mil since he came back.

http://www.doghouseboxing.com/Benz/Benz0622ab12.htm

Chavez-Lee wasn't PPV. Of course more people are going to watch if it's free. Also, I checked your link and if Pacquiao got almost 1 million PPV buys with a dance partner like Bradley, that´s extemely impressive. I think Mayweather would get similar numbers to face someone like a Bradley. I guess the closest comparison would be his fight with Victor Ortiz but even Ortiz is more marketable than Bradley.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Chavez-Lee wasn't PPV. Of course more people are going to watch if it's free. Also, I checked your link and if Pacquiao got almost 1 million PPV buys with a dance partner like Bradley, that´s extemely impressive. I think Mayweather would get similar numbers to face someone like a Bradley. I guess the closest comparison would be his fight with Victor Ortiz but even Ortiz is more marketable than Bradley.

I know Chavez-Lee wasn't ppv so I'm not sure where you were going with that co-sign. Maybe you thought I was making a comparison, sorry for the confusion.


Ortiz may be more marketable but he's not a bigger star than Bradley and wasn't when he fought Mayweather.

 

[Zeferino]

I know Chavez-Lee wasn't ppv so I'm not sure where you were going with that co-sign. Maybe you thought I was making a comparison, sorry for the confusion.


Ortiz may be more marketable but he's not a bigger star than Bradley and wasn't when he fought Mayweather.

Oh, I see what you meant. I get what you're saying about Ortiz but the Mexican fan base is crazy and I believe if any promoter had to choose between promoting Bradley or Ortiz before their respective fights with Pac and May, they would pick Ortiz. Right or wrong, Mexican fighters are more marketable because the Mexican fan base is one of the biggest in the world.

I'm not trying to defend Pacquiao, I'm just trying to keep the comparisons in perspective. Mayweather has done much better in matchmaking for the pay per views. They get the dates right and they almost always have a dance partner or at least an undercard that will guarantee stellar PPV numbers. You can't compare Mayweather fighting Cotto to Pac fighting Bradley or Clottey. It's not a fair comparison IMO.

 

[merce77]

Exactly. He isn't doing anything different that most fighters. The only fighter who used to do the opposite is Manny. The weight limit is strictly for the weigh in. I don't see an issue with chavez.

This is known, the issue is WHEN the weigh ins are held. They should be same day. If they were, dudes wouldn't be able to get away with fighting in divisions they don't belong in.

 

[Alaskanredman]

This is known, the issue is WHEN the weigh ins are held. They should be same day. If they were, dudes wouldn't be able to get away with fighting in divisions they don't belong in.

Nah, the issue is that you would even respond to that motherfucker.

How is it that he can always say a certain fighter needs to move up and that he is always claiming that people are natural weights that has yet to be proven, but in this case, he is saying that the complete opposite of that situation is fine?

 

[merce77]

Nah, the issue is that you would even respond to that motherfucker.

How is it that he can always say a certain fighter needs to move up and that he is always claiming that people are natural weights that has yet to be proven, but in this case, he is saying that the complete opposite of that situation is fine?

 

[patscorpio]

chavez was impressive yes...best performance to date...but you cant tell me he's not using something illegal...he blows up 20-25 lbs after weighins and he's a gotdamn cruiser and doesnt take post fight drug tests...something is not right

 

[Zeferino]

chavez was impressive yes...best performance to date...but you cant tell me he's not using something illegal...he blows up 20-25 lbs after weighins and he's a gotdamn cruiser and doesnt take post fight drug tests...something is not right

Stop the bullshit. The guy took all his tests.

 

[patscorpio]

Stop the bullshit. The guy took all his tests.

right..tests...that shit will catch up to him eventually...then you can come back and tell me he passed his "tests" when his body can't handle the yoyo effect of dropping and adding weight anymore and fighters more his size are beating his ass

 

[Zeferino]

right..tests...that shit will catch up to him eventually...then you can come back and tell me he passed his "tests" when his body can't handle the yoyo effect of dropping and adding weight anymore and fighters more his size are beating his ass

Arturo Gatti and Ike Quartey used to go up to 175 and 190 between fights. Nonito Donaire comes down from as high as 147. All this is fairly common and not necessarily a sign of use of prohibited substances. It's more a result of a lack of discipline.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Arturo Gatti and Ike Quartey used to go up to 175 and 190 between fights. Nonito Donaire comes down from as high as 147. All this is fairly common and not necessarily a sign of use of prohibited substances. It's more a result of a lack of discipline.

I agree but if a fighter can't give me a urine specimen before a fight, they shouldn't be allowed to fight. Of course, economics won't allow this.

Oh, I see what you meant. I get what you're saying about Ortiz but the Mexican fan base is crazy and I believe if any promoter had to choose between promoting Bradley or Ortiz before their respective fights with Pac and May, they would pick Ortiz. Right or wrong, Mexican fighters are more marketable because the Mexican fan base is one of the biggest in the world.

I'm not trying to defend Pacquiao, I'm just trying to keep the comparisons in perspective. Mayweather has done much better in matchmaking for the pay per views. They get the dates right and they almost always have a dance partner or at least an undercard that will guarantee stellar PPV numbers. You can't compare Mayweather fighting Cotto to Pac fighting Bradley or Clottey. It's not a fair comparison IMO.

I get you but Ortiz hasn't be one of those wildly popular Mexicans since he quit with Maidana and looked so bad with Peterson.

I do think the comparison is fair because no one made Manny pick Josh Clottey and neither of them have a history of good/interesting undercards until very recently. Add to that Manny and Floyd have 5 mutual opponents and he fights around the same time every year.
To balance out the Clottey, he did get Margarito, who I thought was shot, but still brought that same large Mexican fanbase.

 

[Zeferino]

I agree but if a fighter can't give me a urine specimen before a fight, they shouldn't be allowed to fight. Of course, economics won't allow this.



I get you but Ortiz hasn't be one of those wildly popular Mexicans since he quit with Maidana and looked so bad with Peterson.

I do think the comparison is fair because no one made Manny pick Josh Clottey and neither of them have a history of good/interesting undercards until very recently. Add to that Manny and Floyd have 5 mutual opponents and he fights around the same time every year.
To balance out the Clottey, he did get Margarito, who I thought was shot, but still brought that same large Mexican fanbase.

I really don't like arguing about the business side of boxing because it just makes me feel lame to be talking about money other people are making. As far as money, I'm just concerned about myself and my family. Nevertheless, since we're talking about it, let's use some real numbers taking into consideration the information from this link http://www.boxingnews24.com/2012/01/pacquiao-tops-mayweather-in-ppv-buys-for-last-three-fights/

I believe Mayweather has benefitted from better PPV matchmaking but Pac is right up there with him. In other words, I don't think they are equal draws but I believe they are in the same stratosphere.

Manny’s last fight in November against Juan Manuel Marquez drew 1.41 million PPV buys, while Floyd’s fight last September against Victor Ortiz drew 1.25 PPV buys.
Floyd’s fight with Marquez in 2009 drew 1 million PPV buys.
Pacquiao’s fight with Antonio Margarito in 2010 drew 1.5 million PPV buys, while Mayweather’s fight Shane Mosley drew 1.4 million PPV buys. Despite Mosley being perceived as a shot fighter, Pacquiao drew 1.3 million PPV buys in their May 2011 fight.

In total Pacquiao’s last three fights have drawn 3.86 million PPV buys, while Mayweather’s last three fights have pulled in 3.65 million PPV buys. In summation Pacquiao drew in 210,000 more PPV buys than Mayweather did. When you take into account the higher number of PPV buys that Pacquiao’s fights have drawn it translates into a cool $10,000,000 in cash.

It is true that the Floyd Mayweather – Oscar De La Hoya fight in May 2007 drew a record 2.4 million PPV hits. Many boxing observers largely attribute the high PPV numbers in that fight to the extreme popularity of the Golden Boy, Oscar De La Hoya and the fact that it was held on the Cinco De Mayo holiday.

But Pacquiao’s recent higher PPV numbers only tell part of the story. In the same three fights Pacquiao sold out the venues, while Mayweather’s last three fights were not sold out. In addition, when Manny Pacquiao fights at the MGM Grand Arena in Las Vegas a significantly higher number of high rollers from Asia fly into Vegas for his fights. The economic impact in Las Vegas for a Pacquiao fight far outstrips that of any other fighter.

In a study by CSE, an integrated sports and marketing firm, Pacquiao is one of only two boxers in the 2012 Power Rankings of the most powerful athletes in the world. Manny is ranked at number 28. Mayweather is ranked 49th in the same study. Both on and off field accomplishments are taken into account in the rankings. Endorsements and media presence figure heavily in the rankings.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

I really don't like arguing about the business side of boxing because it just makes me feel lame to be talking about money other people are making. As far as money, I'm just concerned about myself and my family.

You can talk about the business side of the sport without talking about someone's money. There really isn't a way to separate the business out of the sport of prizefighting.

Nevertheless, since we're talking about it, let's use some real numbers taking into consideration the information from this link http://www.boxingnews24.com/2012/01/pacquiao-tops-mayweather-in-ppv-buys-for-last-three-fights/

I believe Mayweather has benefitted from better PPV matchmaking but Pac is right up there with him. In other words, I don't think they are equal draws but I believe they are in the same stratosphere.

Manny’s last fight in November against Juan Manuel Marquez drew 1.41 million PPV buys, while Floyd’s fight last September against Victor Ortiz drew 1.25 PPV buys.
Floyd’s fight with Marquez in 2009 drew 1 million PPV buys.
Pacquiao’s fight with Antonio Margarito in 2010 drew 1.5 million PPV buys, while Mayweather’s fight Shane Mosley drew 1.4 million PPV buys. Despite Mosley being perceived as a shot fighter, Pacquiao drew 1.3 million PPV buys in their May 2011 fight.

In total Pacquiao’s last three fights have drawn 3.86 million PPV buys, while Mayweather’s last three fights have pulled in 3.65 million PPV buys. In summation Pacquiao drew in 210,000 more PPV buys than Mayweather did. When you take into account the higher number of PPV buys that Pacquiao’s fights have drawn it translates into a cool $10,000,000 in cash.

It is true that the Floyd Mayweather – Oscar De La Hoya fight in May 2007 drew a record 2.4 million PPV hits. Many boxing observers largely attribute the high PPV numbers in that fight to the extreme popularity of the Golden Boy, Oscar De La Hoya and the fact that it was held on the Cinco De Mayo holiday.

But Pacquiao’s recent higher PPV numbers only tell part of the story. In the same three fights Pacquiao sold out the venues, while Mayweather’s last three fights were not sold out. In addition, when Manny Pacquiao fights at the MGM Grand Arena in Las Vegas a significantly higher number of high rollers from Asia fly into Vegas for his fights. The economic impact in Las Vegas for a Pacquiao fight far outstrips that of any other fighter.

In a study by CSE, an integrated sports and marketing firm, Pacquiao is one of only two boxers in the 2012 Power Rankings of the most powerful athletes in the world. Manny is ranked at number 28. Mayweather is ranked 49th in the same study. Both on and off field accomplishments are taken into account in the rankings. Endorsements and media presence figure heavily in the rankings.

Let's talk about that article and the numbers it throws around particularly the Pacquiao-Margarito number of 1.5 million. Where did they get that number?

http://http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/pacquiao-margarito-generated-1-15-million-ppv-buys_b86602

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/691449-pay-per-view-buys-for-pacquiao-vs-mosley-to-surpass-fight-vs-margarito

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/news.php?p=25881&more=1

Wrong information always leads to wrong conclusions. There is a big difference between 1.5 million and 1.15 million. But we agree, they aren't equals but they're on the difference isn't significant. They're a close one and two.