Celtics, T-Wolves discussing Garnett trade again

[Rukus]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2954127

The Minnesota Timberwolves and Boston Celtics, who nearly completed a blockbuster Kevin Garnett trade before the June draft, have resurrected those trade talks and are again locked in serious discussions, according to NBA front-office sources.

Multiple sources told ESPN.com on Sunday night that former teammates Kevin McHale and Danny Ainge have revived discussions of a deal that would end Garnett's 12-season association with Minnesota by sending him to Ainge's Celtics, with the Wolves getting back two of the assets McHale coveted most last month: Al Jefferson and Theo Ratliff's expiring contract.

The deal depends on Garnett backing off his well-chronicled unwillingness to play in Boston. Yet sources indicated late Sunday that Garnett was warming to the idea, raising hopes on both sides that the deal will finally go through.

 

[ShadyPat]

hey it's the east they could do some damage..but Allen and Pierce have got to stay healthy plus Kg will not be to exited to hook back up with the Kandi man and Wally.. .

 

[Spectrum]

The deal is now done... KG goes to Boston....interesting

 

[xfactor]

hey it's the east they could do some damage..but Allen and Pierce have got to stay healthy plus Kg will not be to exited to hook back up with the Kandi man and Wally.. .

Wally World was traded to Seattle.

The trade will be good for generating the $$$ I don't think Garnett is enough of an impact player to put them over the top. (Championship level) Plus Glenn Rivers isnt the coach for the job. They will have to spend even more to bring in someone that can get this squad to work.

I'm interested to see how it plays out though but if they get rid of Jefferson, they are stupid.

 

[Rollie_Fingaz]

This may not even be enough to win their division. The problem is they really have no bench now, and Allen is coming off injury.

Anyway. My thinking is that the Wolves did it to break up KG's salary in to smaller contracts.

 

[Rollie_Fingaz]

..and the gutting of the Wolves is complete..

Hudson to become free agent, teaming with KG in Boston an option

Associated Press

Updated: July 31, 2007, 6:48 PM ET

MINNEAPOLIS -- The agent for Troy Hudson said Tuesday that the Minnesota Timberwolves have agreed to buy out Hudson's contract, making him a free agent.

Bill Neff said he has reached a verbal agreement with Wolves owner Glen Taylor to sever ties. The Wolves will pay Hudson just under $6 million this year and just over $6.3 million next season, which is about 80 percent of what Hudson was owed.

"It works out fine," Neff said. "Now we have to go find a team to take a chance on."

One team that could be in Hudson's sights is Boston. The Celtics completed a blockbuster deal with the Timberwolves on Tuesday that brought All-Star Kevin Garnett to Boston in exchange for Al Jefferson and six other players.

Garnett and Hudson are good friends who played together in Minnesota for the last five seasons. The point guard averaged 14.2 points and 5.7 assists in his first season here, parlaying that into a six-year, $37 million contract.

In fact, Garnett lobbied hard for the Timberwolves to re-sign Hudson to that deal, but Hudson has struggled with injuries and inconsistent play ever since. He's started just 39 games in the last four seasons and averaged 5.9 points and 2.1 assists in 34 games last year.

When the Wolves began shopping Garnett earlier this summer, Neff said Hudson had had enough.

"That's kind of when Troy decided to pull the plug," Neff said.

He first requested a trade from the team, and when that didn't work out, Neff began negotiating a buyout.

Now, Hudson could be headed to Boston with his good buddy. As the roster stands right now, the Celtics will start next season with second-year pro Rajon Rondo running the point, creating a need for a more experienced player either to start at the position or come off the bench for big minutes.

 

[cranrab]

ok, it's a done deal. but now it's time to trim the fat. the timberwolves roster is bloated. play kevin mchale for a minute. who stays and who goes?

Mark Blount C
Al Jefferson F
Ricky Davis G
Rashad McCants G
Randy Foye G

Mark Madsen C-F
Theo Ratliff C-F
Juwan Howard F
Corey Brewer G-F
Trenton Hassell G

Ryan Gomes F
Gerald Green F

there's my 12

3 of these would make my IR/practice squad, but 2 more gotta go. or trade time.

Marko Jaric G
Chris Richard **
Craig Smith
Sebastian Telfair
Bracey Wright (FA)

anybody else think that the timberwolves are pretty thin in the backcourt, especially at the PG?

 

[cranrab]

the celtics are facing a different set of challenges. not only are they short of a 12 man roster, but they are woefully thin at C and veteran leadership off the bench. I wouldn't worry about scoring with the 2nd squad, because coach rivers should be able to stagger the minutes so that at least 1 of his all-stars in on the floor at all times.

Kendrick Perkins C
Kevin Garnett F
Paul Pierce F-G
Ray Allen G
Rajon Rondo G

Brian Scalabrine F
Leon Powe F
Glen Davis ** F
Tony Allen G
Gabe Pruitt ** G

Brandon Wallace

 

[cranrab]

my favorite KG quote from the press conference today:

"it was NO way I was gonna be able to go to some other franchise/organization and have this calibre of talent."

 

[Rollie_Fingaz]

the celtics are facing a different set of challenges. not only are they short of a 12 man roster, but they are woefully thin at C and veteran leadership off the bench. I wouldn't worry about scoring with the 2nd squad, because coach rivers should be able to stagger the minutes so that at least 1 of his all-stars in on the floor at all times.

Kendrick Perkins C
Kevin Garnett F
Paul Pierce F-G
Ray Allen G
Rajon Rondo G

Brian Scalabrine F
Leon Powe F
Glen Davis ** F
Tony Allen G
Gabe Pruitt ** G

Brandon Wallace

Well, Troy Hudson's contract will be bought out, and with his relationship with KG I expect him to be brought in as starting guard )or at least get a lot of minutes as a reserve.)

They can conceivably bring in P.J. Brown or Chris Webber and they would get significant minutes as a backup center as well. I expect Big Baby and Pierce to go to PF while KG sees some time at center as well.

There should be a decent amount of free agent big men waiting to get in this rotation, as they would get a decent amount of PT:

Melvin Ely
Anderson Varejao
Mike Sweetney
Chris Webber
Alan Henderson
P.J. Brown
Charles Oakley (according to a story I read.)

 

[Rollie_Fingaz]

ok, it's a done deal. but now it's time to trim the fat. the timberwolves roster is bloated. play kevin mchale for a minute. who stays and who goes?

Mark Blount C
Al Jefferson F
Ricky Davis G
Rashad McCants G
Randy Foye G

Mark Madsen C-F
Theo Ratliff C-F
Juwan Howard F
Corey Brewer G-F
Trenton Hassell G

Ryan Gomes F
Gerald Green F

there's my 12

3 of these would make my IR/practice squad, but 2 more gotta go. or trade time.

Marko Jaric G
Chris Richard **
Craig Smith
Sebastian Telfair
Bracey Wright (FA)

anybody else think that the timberwolves are pretty thin in the backcourt, especially at the PG?

This was interesting to me. Right off top Jaric is GONE. Period. I keep Bassy though. He has one last chance to prove he can play, or else brush up on your Italian..Let Bracey and Richard walk as well.

The Wolves have a lot of expiring contracts, so getting people to take the extra players would not be too difficult. They will be way under the salary cap in 2009. They also have quite a few serviceable big men.

After thinking about it, I would consider moving some of those big bodies and bringing in Eddie Jones or Brevin Knight. I know it is a stretch, either one can run point, play defense and be the vet leader that this team is now lacking. Also, you have to put Hassell into the starting line up as as your perimeter defender.

Free agent Guards:

Jannero Pargo
Eddie House
Mike Wilks
Earl Boykins
James Posey
Brevin Knight

 

[cranrab]

Well, Troy Hudson's contract will be bought out, and with his relationship with KG I expect him to be brought in as starting guard )or at least get a lot of minutes as a reserve.)

troy hudson can still do some things, but i wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole.

They can conceivably bring in P.J. Brown or Chris Webber

good point. neither 1 would be a bad backup.

I expect Big Baby and Pierce to go to PF while KG sees some time at center as well.

WOW.

i would NEVER put paul pierce at the 4, and putting kevin garnett at the 5 is a guaranteed way to shorten his career. i can't see either of those moves unless boston starts running a phoenix style game.

There should be a decent amount of free agent big men waiting to get in this rotation, as they would get a decent amount of PT:

Melvin Ely
Anderson Varejao
Mike Sweetney
Chris Webber
Alan Henderson
P.J. Brown
Charles Oakley (according to a story I read.)

i'm thinking anderson varejao is gonna command too high a price. i could see mike sweetney or alan henderson though. what about jackie butler?

 

[Rollie_Fingaz]

WOW.

i would NEVER put paul pierce at the 4, and putting kevin garnett at the 5 is a guaranteed way to shorten his career. i can't see either of those moves unless boston starts running a phoenix style game.

I didn't mean start KG at center, but I can see stretches in a game where he will have to go there, especially if the center is in reality a PF or the C's have foul trouble.


Butler is getting a lot of looks from Miami.

BTW-I found this article interesting.

Free agents come calling the Hub
By Steve Bulpett and Mark Murphy / Celtics Notebook
Wednesday, August 1, 2007 - Updated: 07:04 AM EST

In a rather amazing turn of events, Boston has suddenly become a desirable city for NBA free agents. Agents for legitimate veteran players were actually calling the Celtics [team stats] yesterday, looking to place their clients in Boston as news of Kevin Garnett’s arrival spilled out further.
Presently, agents and league sources confirm that the Celts are looking at four point guards and five big men as they try to find the right players to support their talented trio.
Eddie House, Troy Hudson, Brevin Knight and Charlie Bell are reportedly on the point guard list. Bell is a restricted free agent, which makes his situation a little different (Milwaukee can match any offer he gets). Hudson had his contract bought out by the Timberwolves yesterday, making him a free agent. And while the C’s were previously steering away from Knight because of alleged locker room issues, a source said, “Hey, just about everyone that’s out there now has (a few) spots.”

As for big men, Doc Rivers said the Celts are “very interested” in Dikembe Mutombo as a backup center, while P.J. Brown, Michael Ruffin, Calvin Booth and Scot Pollard are also under consideration.

With money tight as the Celtics head into the market, rookies Glen Davis and Brandon Wallace may get larger roles sooner than expected.

 

[RunawaySlave]

Okay, I missed out on this thread, so I'll just give opines:


Danny Ainge got RAPED!!

Don't get me wrong, KG is a good player (duh), but a limited
player (offensively). His biggest asset was always his physical
attributes coupled with his ENERGY. Being 7'1", able to run all
day and play with pain and still play ABOVE the rim is what makes
him special. Also a nice outside shot. But playing with his back to
the basket (the pivot) has NEVER been his strength (although I
would not put it past him learning how to do it)

If this were 5 years ago, I would say good trade for him. But at 31,
Garnett is not gonna play at the same level of 2000-2005. He
is still a star, and he could still HELP win a title for sure, but the
reason I say Ainge got JACKED is because he basically gave up
on what could've been a very good frontline with Jefferson and
Gomes. Add any halfway decent center to that line and it's tough
as any in the league to stop. In fact, I say Minnesota will have
one of the top frontlines in the league in the West now


That's alot to give up for one man....

 

[xfactor]

Okay, I missed out on this thread, so I'll just give opines:


Danny Ainge got RAPED!!

Don't get me wrong, KG is a good player (duh), but a limited
player (offensively). His biggest asset was always his physical
attributes coupled with his ENERGY. Being 7'1", able to run all
day and play with pain and still play ABOVE the rim is what makes
him special. Also a nice outside shot. But playing with his back to
the basket (the pivot) has NEVER been his strength (although I
would not put it past him learning how to do it)

If this were 5 years ago, I would say good trade for him. But at 31,
Garnett is not gonna play at the same level of 2000-2005. He
is still a star, and he could still HELP win a title for sure, but the
reason I say Ainge got JACKED is because he basically gave up
on what could've been a very good frontline with Jefferson and
Gomes. Add any halfway decent center to that line and it's tough
as any in the league to stop. In fact, I say Minnesota will have
one of the top frontlines in the league in the West now


That's alot to give up for one man....

Pretty much the same thing I was saying. Garnett is a great player but I dont think he will make big enough of an impact to put them over the top with the true ELITE teams in the league.

Not only that, but they gave up on Al Jefferson (who I think will be a 20-10 guy from now on) and Ryan Gomes - high energy, intangibles type player. Gerald Green may or may not pan out but those are 3 players that could have been in contributors for the long haul.

I predict Boston will have 3 years to get it done before ownership breaks the "BIG 3" up for lack of productivity and I think they'll only win ONE Eastern Conference Title at best.

As far as the $$$ are concerned (because that's important too), I think its a great trade because Garnett, along with Allen, will sell the tickets in Bean Town.

 

[Rollie_Fingaz]

Pretty much the same thing I was saying. Garnett is a great player but I dont think he will make big enough of an impact to put them over the top with the true ELITE teams in the league.
:
Not only that, but they gave up on Al Jefferson (who I think will be a 20-10 guy from now on) and Ryan Gomes - high energy, intangibles type player. Gerald Green may or may not pan out but those are 3 players that could have been in contributors for the long haul.

I predict Boston will have 3 years to get it done before ownership breaks the "BIG 3" up for lack of productivity and I think they'll only win ONE Eastern Conference Title at best.

As far as the $$$ are concerned (because that's important too), I think its a great trade because Garnett, along with Allen, will sell the tickets in Bean Town.

Thing 1:I said it before, and I'll say it again. KG would be a GREAT #2 player..but NOT the franchise. Teaming him with Ray Allen will benefit him because KG tends to dissappear in late stretches of games.

Thing 2: They have no bench. I like the fact that Mutumbo and Webber have shown intrest but they need some young bodies. The cat who is starting at point guard should be the coming off the bench. Which leads me to..

Thing 3: Lack of a Point Guard. You see how much a quality PG takes off of KG when you look at the 2004-05 season when Cassell was there, Sam made clutch shots and took a lot of pressure off of KG.

My prediction: the Celtics win the Atlantic, then they lose in the second round and Doc Rivers gets fired. In '08 either Phil Jackson or Larry Brown comes in and takes them to the ECF and they lose in 7 to the Bulls. (this is dependent on if Kobe leaves L.A.) '09 they lose in the Finals (Detroit and Miami won't be factors by then.)

The summer of '08 is a BIG free agent crop, so I can see a lot of people (especially guards) wanting to play there:

Andre Miller
Baron Davis (I think he'll stay in Oakland)
Gilbert Arenas
Mike Bibby
Allen Iverson (I think he'll stay in Denver)
Steve Francis
Stephon Marbury
Deron Williams (I think he'll stay in Utah)
Bobby Jackson

Anyone of these guards could take them to the next level.

If they can pry away one of these Guards, I think they have a chance to win in 08-09...but NOT '07.

 

[RunawaySlave]

Pretty much the same thing I was saying. Garnett is a great player but I dont think he will make big enough of an impact to put them over the top with the true ELITE teams in the league.

Not only that, but they gave up on Al Jefferson (who I think will be a 20-10 guy from now on) and Ryan Gomes - high energy, intangibles type player. Gerald Green may or may not pan out but those are 3 players that could have been in contributors for the long haul.

I predict Boston will have 3 years to get it done before ownership breaks the "BIG 3" up for lack of productivity and I think they'll only win ONE Eastern Conference Title at best.

As far as the $$$ are concerned (because that's important too), I think its a great trade because Garnett, along with Allen, will sell the tickets in Bean Town.

Don't get me wrong, I think KG will have a great impact on
this team. Teamed with Allen and Pierce, it makes a formidable
trio. All three are UNselfish, can play a little defense and Allen
and Pierce's court sense will more than make up for KG's lack
of the same. Put a decent PG with these three and you have
one of the BEST teams in the league right there......

But they still gave way too much to get him

 

[Rollie_Fingaz]

As a side note: I really think Boston made a mistake by not picking up Eddie Jones.

Oh well.

How Will Trade Shape Wolves' Future?
Authored by Josh Klomp - July 31, 2007 - 6:09 pm

The Kevin Garnett Era in Minnesota is officially over. He was officially traded to Boston on Tuesday for Al Jefferson, Gerald Green, Theo Ratliff, Ryan Gomes, Sebastian Telfair, and two first-round draft picks (one of them originally belonged to Minnesota).

While Boston immediately becomes a contender in the Eastern Conference, it appears as if Minnesota will be cellar-dwellers for a while. However, this trade for youth allows for that young talent on the team to grow and develop together.

Let me analyze each piece of the trade coming to Minnesota:

Al Jefferson: 6'10” PF/C from Prentiss High School (MS)
2006-2007 Statistics: 16.0 ppg, 11.0 rpg, 1.5 bpg in 33.6 mpg (69 games)

I never thought I would be as excited about Garnett's replacement as I am for Al Jefferson. At 6'10”, 256 lbs, he should be a force in this league for years to come, even in the Western Conference. He is still young at 22, and I believe his best years are still ahead of him. He will likely never reach the caliber of Kevin Garnett (who can?), but I have heard many analysts say they see him having a career similar to that of Elton Brand.

Gerald Green: 6'8” G/F from Gulf Shores Academy (TX)
2006-2007 Statistics: 10.4 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 1.0 apg in 22.0 mpg (81 games)

When he first came into the league straight out of high school, people were viewing him as the next Tracy McGrady. Now, people think he is just a terrible basketball player. I think both are a little extreme. He put up 10 points per game last year in averaging only 22 minutes, and he played in all but one game for the Celtics last season. His ceiling is high, and is already a decent player with excellent athleticism.

Theo Ratliff: 6'10” C/F from University of Wyoming
2006-2007 Statistics: 2.5 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 1.5 bpg in 22.0 mpg (2 games)

Obviously, the main reason Ratliff is in this trade is for salary cap purposes. However, Ratliff says he's ready to go, and whoever gets him is “gonna get a great choice.” Ratliff should also be a great locker room presence. His game may not be what it used to be, but anything he can give Minnesota will be extra on top of his contract and leadership.

Ryan Gomes: 6'7” F from Providence College
2006-2007 Statistics: 12.1 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 1.6 apg in 31.2 mpg (73 games)

He sort of reminds me of Craig Smith. Similar body frame, similar game. Only thing different is that Smith primarily plays PF while Gomes usually plays SF. However, Gomes could easily play PF in a Craig Smith-like manner. I'm not sure what it is, but I think he can play well alongside Craig Smith.

Sebastian Telfair: 6'0” G from Abraham Lincoln High School (NY)
2006-2007 Statistics: 6.1 ppg, 1.4 rpg, 2.8 apg in 20.2 mpg (78 games)

Telfair has received a lot of criticism from fans and the media since coming into the league straight from high school, and not being able to live up to all the hype. However, he should provide an upgrade in Minnesota at the point guard position, which is currently manned by Troy Hudson, whose contract is soon to be bought out.

Two first round draft picks

These may not be a very big deal to the casual NBA fan, but at least one of these draft choices should be high in the first round. One of the picks sent from Boston was originally Minnesota's pick, which was dealt to Boston in the Wally Szczerbiak-Ricky Davis trade last year. Many people view this as Kevin McHale and Glen Taylor simply trying to correct one of their prior mistakes. The other draft choice will likely be late in the first round now that Boston has the trio of Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, and Ray Allen.

Kevin Garnett will always remain in the minds of Timberwolves' fans. He was easily the greatest player in the frachise's young history, and one of the greatest players of all-time. It's not easy to lose a player of his caliber. However, I believe the Timberwolves were able to come out of this trade as winners, despite losing Garnett. If you compare this trade with other recent trades of NBA superstars like Shaquille O'Neal, Tracy McGrady, or Vince Carter, the Minnesota Timberwolves are getting a steal. However, that is only if the young talent this team has assembled can mesh together and develop into a cohesive unit.

 

[xfactor]

Rollie_Fingaz = Bill Walton

I expect Big Baby and Pierce to go to PF while KG sees some time at center as well.

I was sitting here watching the FIBA game last night and listening to the NBA's guru Bill Walton

And he made a very similar statement last night while doing play by play. Basically saying that for the Celtics to return to the championship days, Garnett MUST move to the low block and play C.

 

[cranrab]

Re: Rollie_Fingaz = Bill Walton

And he made a very similar statement last night while doing play by play. Basically saying that for the Celtics to return to the championship days, Garnett MUST move to the low block and play C.

that would be the BEST way to shorten kevin garnett's career as a starter.

bill walton should ask guys like dale davis and brian grant what being converted to C does. the wear and tear on your back and body in general is magnified.

 

[Rollie_Fingaz]

Re: Rollie_Fingaz = Bill Walton

that would be the BEST way to shorten kevin garnett's career as a starter.

bill walton should ask guys like dale davis and brian grant what being converted to C does. the wear and tear on your back and body in general is magnified.

They really don't have nuch of a choice, unless Kendrick Perkins and hold down the center spot..and who is his backup?

Speaking of Perkins:


Pivotal season for center
Perkins working hard to improve defense

By Shira Springer | August 19, 2007

Between now and the start of training camp in six weeks, Kendrick Perkins hopes the Celtics' coaching staff pushes him to extremes. He wants to be run ragged, past the point of exhaustion in offensive and defensive drills. When he joins Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, and Rajon Rondo in the starting five this season, the 6-foot-10-inch Perkins wants to be in the best shape of his career.

"Each day I can come in here and a coach can kill me and make me throw up after my workout, that's what I want," said Perkins, who has dropped 20 pounds and is 10 shy of his desired playing weight of 260. "If you do that all the way through the month of September, everything else is going to be easy."

After working out recently at the Celtics' practice facility in Waltham, Perkins, 22, sounded almost giddy about the upcoming season. He shares the same high expectations as fans, believing the Celtics can make a run to the NBA Finals. He understands that if the Celtics disappoint this season, his talent may be questioned more than others.

"I know if I don't take advantage of this opportunity, people are going to be saying, 'They need another center,' " said Perkins. "If Rondo doesn't take advantage of it, then we're a point guard away from a championship. Paul, K.G., and Ray have enough on their shoulders. They don't have to carry me, Rondo, and T.A. [Tony Allen]. The only thing they should be carrying along is rookies. This is my fifth year. I've got to grow up."

With the birth of his first child expected in early September, Perkins has taken a more mature approach to his life and career, thinking long and hard about his priorities.
Pop-up FIBA Americas Championship

"It's kind of crazy right now," said Perkins. "The month of August and September, you really try to attack workouts hard as far as trying to kill yourself conditioning-wise, and you've got a baby on the way. But that only makes you stronger mentally, having to go through whatever you go through at home and then come in.

"I'm happy about my child coming, but on the other side of it, I know I've got a job. I know I've got goals and my team has goals that we're trying to accomplish this year.

"After we got Ray, I was like, 'OK, cool.' After we got The Ticket, I couldn't go a minute without thinking about how it's going to be. My mind's just thinking all about basketball."

While Perkins may sound slightly in awe of the newest Celtics, he feels comfortable with the prospect of playing beside them. He has designed some of his workouts to develop skills that will complement the trio.

In addition to making 15-footers, Perkins has practiced "finishing quick." He knows when he receives the ball around the basket from Garnett, Pierce, or Allen, he must make the most of his opportunities and score quickly. But he also understands that the Celtics care more about his defensive productivity, and that's the way it should be.

"[Defense] is what gives me playing time," said Perkins. "That's my role. I don't care if I shoot the ball one time. I've got Paul, Ray Allen, and KG on the court with me. If I go the whole game and have zero points and we win, I don't care. Why should I care? That's called selfish. If we're winning, everybody's going to get the same publicity and everything else. That all comes with losing yourself within the team.

"I want to win too much to care about anything else. I don't care about my stats. I don't care about how people view me as a basketball player. I just care about getting wins. Anything else is irrelevant to me. I don't care about somebody telling me to shoot the ball or do this more. I'm going to do what my team wants me to do. It's as simple as that."

While Perkins would be the first to admit to shortcomings on the court, his desire shows why he should work well with Garnett, Pierce, and Allen. With rebounding, shot blocking, and "giving up his body" on screens, he believes he'll enjoy playing a complementary role.