Bryant has stern words after loss

[Rollie_Fingaz]

1st-round elimination for 3rd straight year 'extremely frustrating' for star

Even though the big trend in Hollywood this summer is making money off sequels, the Los Angeles Lakers are nowhere near producing a second edition of the team that made three straight NBA Finals, winning twice, from 2000-02.

And the star is not happy.

"Do something and do it now," Kobe Bryant said of the importance of the off-season after the Suns eliminated the Lakers on Wednesday night. "I don't know what to do, but it is extremely frustrating. We are going on three years of still being on ground zero."

The Lakers showed some guts playing their way back into a 119-110 loss in Game 5, but it is still a team that was outmanned at nearly every position and started a point guard - Jordan Farmar - who was in the developmental league for parts of the season.

Twice before Game 5, Lakers coach Phil Jackson was asked about the team's future. He said it wasn't the time for that discussion.

It was good etiquette, but it probably also had something to do with the reality of the Lakers' deterioration since Shaquille O'Neal made the trip to Miami.

"Last year we showed we could finish a season," Jackson said. "We didn't finish and we didn't have the kind of cohesion I like with my teams. I told them we will make changes."

The Lakers have been knocked out in the first round the past three years and it may stay that way for while. Consider that with less than nine minutes remaining in the second quarter, the Suns' Amaré Stoudemire had two points and Steve Nash had three assists.

That lines up to be nothing but good news for the Lakers yet they fell behind by 11 moments later when Stoudemire hammered home his first dunk of the game.

Los Angeles made a game of it in the second half, cutting a 12-point halftime deficit to five early in the fourth quarter. But almost doesn't cut it.

"It's difficult to deal with losing anytime, but we know we can play with this team when we are healthy," forward Luke Walton said. "We showed that at the beginning of the year and it was hard to see it just fade away."

The Lakers began the year at 26-13 before injuries zapped the team of its talent, but the downfall has been going on for a while. Los Angeles had two wins over playoff teams since mid-March and won just 13 of its last 28 games.

"Let's see what direction we want to go this off-season," Bryant said. "Make those steps and make them now."

 

[SpiritualPorn]

1st-round elimination for 3rd straight year 'extremely frustrating' for star

Even though the big trend in Hollywood this summer is making money off sequels, the Los Angeles Lakers are nowhere near producing a second edition of the team that made three straight NBA Finals, winning twice, from 2000-02.

And the star is not happy.

"Do something and do it now," Kobe Bryant said of the importance of the off-season after the Suns eliminated the Lakers on Wednesday night. "I don't know what to do, but it is extremely frustrating. We are going on three years of still being on ground zero."

The Lakers showed some guts playing their way back into a 119-110 loss in Game 5, but it is still a team that was outmanned at nearly every position and started a point guard - Jordan Farmar - who was in the developmental league for parts of the season.

Twice before Game 5, Lakers coach Phil Jackson was asked about the team's future. He said it wasn't the time for that discussion.

It was good etiquette, but it probably also had something to do with the reality of the Lakers' deterioration since Shaquille O'Neal made the trip to Miami.

"Last year we showed we could finish a season," Jackson said. "We didn't finish and we didn't have the kind of cohesion I like with my teams. I told them we will make changes."

The Lakers have been knocked out in the first round the past three years and it may stay that way for while. Consider that with less than nine minutes remaining in the second quarter, the Suns' Amaré Stoudemire had two points and Steve Nash had three assists.

That lines up to be nothing but good news for the Lakers yet they fell behind by 11 moments later when Stoudemire hammered home his first dunk of the game.

Los Angeles made a game of it in the second half, cutting a 12-point halftime deficit to five early in the fourth quarter. But almost doesn't cut it.

"It's difficult to deal with losing anytime, but we know we can play with this team when we are healthy," forward Luke Walton said. "We showed that at the beginning of the year and it was hard to see it just fade away."

The Lakers began the year at 26-13 before injuries zapped the team of its talent, but the downfall has been going on for a while. Los Angeles had two wins over playoff teams since mid-March and won just 13 of its last 28 games.

"Let's see what direction we want to go this off-season," Bryant said. "Make those steps and make them now."

The problem is , no one wants to play with Kobe.

Why would any top tier free agent want to go to LA, have their career numbers diminish, then get blamed for the teams problems.

Kobe would dominate the ball and score all he wants, or refuse to shoot. Either way he is no worse off than he is now.

 

[SpiritualPorn]

http://www.latimes.com/sports/basket...rts-nba-lakers







The Lakers rolled uneasily through their final day of exit meetings, as Kobe Bryant reiterated his increasing frustration and General Manger Mitch Kupchak suggested that only one player was considered untouchable for off-season trade talks — the same player prodding upper management to improve the team.

Still simmering after the Lakers' first-round loss to Phoenix, Bryant voiced another degree of dissatisfaction during meetings Friday with Kupchak and Coach Phil Jackson, an unhappiness he later repeated publicly with such firmness that it made his blunt postgame appeal Wednesday ("Do something, and do it now") look like a minor request.

"I just told [Kupchak] this summer's about getting us to an elite level, doing whatever it takes to make it happen," Bryant said. "This is a competitive city. We're used to winning titles, not just winning games and being in the first round. We want to win championships. Now's the time.

"That's one of the things when I re-signed here, they promised they would build a contender and build a contender now. I don't want to have to wait any more than I already have."

The Lakers haven't won a playoff series since beating Minnesota in the 2004 Western Conference finals.

Bryant, who will turn 29 in August, has a no-trade clause in his contract for at least one more season and remains the franchise's cornerstone, which means the Lakers will try to surround him with more talented pieces. He has four years and $88.6 million left on his contract but can terminate his deal after the 2008-09 season and leave two years and $47.8 million on the table, an unlikely event.

Kupchak, asked if every Laker was available in trade talks this off-season, singled out the one obvious selection and left others unmentioned.

"We're going to build the team around Kobe," Kupchak said.

That left 19-year-old center Andrew Bynum and oft-injured but productive forward Lamar Odom on the unprotected list.

It won't be easy to change the look of the Lakers, even though Bryant said his patience was currently "about as short as my 1-year-old daughter."

If the yet-to-be-determined salary cap is placed at $55 million next season, the Lakers would already be $3.4 million over it, meaning the only notable free-agent tool at their disposal would again be the mid-level exception, worth about $30 million over five years and offered to all teams that are over the salary cap. (The Lakers can sign free agent Luke Walton without affecting their cap status.)

In other words, the Lakers can make drastic steps only via trades, which means Kupchak could have a busy off-season.

"We understand there's no magic wand you can wave and make things happen," Kupchak said. "But we're going to be as aggressive as we've always been to get this team back to championship-level basketball."

Kupchak also acknowledged Bryant's frustration.

"I don't think anybody who's been with this organization — the Buss family, myself, Phil — feels any different," Kupchak said. "We feel the exact same way. Being in the first round or losing in the first round is not what we want to accomplish. We feel that we owe and want to provide more to the city than that."

Adding to the tension is the fact that Bryant isn't getting any younger.

"Obviously there's a window," Bryant said. "I feel fine physically. The important thing to me is winning now. It's not waiting, this, that and the other….

"I don't play for anything but a championship. I want to get into the pocket with this city, where we, going into the season, believe that we have a shot at winning this whole thing."

Bryant couldn't predict whether big-name players such as Jermaine O'Neal or Kevin Garnett could be acquired by the Lakers during the off-season.

"I don't know," he said. "I just voiced my opinion. Now it's on them to do their job and go out there and try to make something happen.

 

[Spectrum]

Looks like the Lakers are fucked.

 

[SpiritualPorn]

Looks like the Lakers are fucked.

Couldn't happen to a nicer guy

Here's more from insidehoops dude named LOKI..( I swear he must be Cran in disguise):

MaxFly, let's go one step further and isolate the sterling 4th quarter play from Kobe in the playoffs, since you're under the delusion that he had a good/great series. Here are Kobe's 4th quarter numbers this series:


Game 1: 1-10 FG, 4pts, 1 ast

Game 2: 0-0 FG, 0 pts, 1 ast

Game 3: 5-10 FG, 15 pts, 0 ast

Game 4: 1-3 FG, 3 pts, 4 ast

Game 5: 3-10 FG, 10 pts, 0 ast


4th quarter averages- 6.4 pts and 1.2 ast on 30.3% shooting


Now, let's go a step further and take away the one great game he had this series (game 3) and see what his 4th quarter play (again, when it matters most -- certainly much more than against bottom-feeders in the regular season) looks like:


4th quarter averages minus game 3: 4.3 pts and 1.5 ast on 21.7% shooting


For the mathematically challenged, that's a 17 pt/6 ast pace for an entire game...on 22% shooting. Yeah, this is what we should expect or be content with from "the best player in the game." I mean, look at those numbers. I won't even go into the numerous (and crucial) TO's.


But you're right, MaxFly -- he didn't have a poor series.

 

[Spectrum]

^^^^

Very cran-like response

But got-damned.. he played like PURE HOT SHIT in the 4th quarter in that series.

 

[cranrab]

Re: tobe has stern words after loss

funny how everybody wanted to play around with shaquille o'neal's money, but NOBODY has mentioned anything about re-structuring tobe's deal to free up some dough...



but then, that would be a contrary move for tobe, WHO WAS THE ONLY PLAYER IN THE NBAPA TO VOTE AGAINST the CBA because it meant he couldn't get more than shaquille o'neal while he was on the fakers.

so let's see. on the 1 hand tobe claims he just wants to win championships. but on the other hand, tobe doesn't want to give up the ducats to sign any players.



didn't shaquille o'neal play for LESS money than the fakers gave him in order to win a championship?

 

[SpiritualPorn]

Re: tobe has stern words after loss

funny how everybody wanted to play around with shaquille o'neal's money, but NOBODY has mentioned anything about re-structuring tobe's deal to free up some dough...



but then, that would be a contrary move for tobe, WHO WAS THE ONLY PLAYER IN THE NBAPA TO VOTE AGAINST the CBA because it meant he couldn't get more than shaquille o'neal while he was on the fakers.

so let's see. on the 1 hand tobe claims he just wants to win championships. but on the other hand, tobe doesn't want to give up the ducats to sign any players.



didn't shaquille o'neal play for LESS money than the fakers gave him in order to win a championship?

Exactly

This is why Pat Riley calling out Shaq was so fucked up.

 

[SpiritualPorn]

^^^^

Very cran-like response

But got-damned.. he played like PURE HOT SHIT in the 4th quarter in that series.

He sure did

Now Kobe is calling out management.....

This guy has no idea when to stop and be accountable.......

 

[Spectrum]

This guy has no idea when to stop and be accountable.......

I have not read a lot of articles, but not once have I read an article where he has quoted with anything like " I could have played better... or I struggled in the 4th"... this mofo ALWAYS points the finger..

 

[cranrab]

not only has tobe NOT offered to restructure his deal (clearly pointing out where his priorities are), but neither are any free agents knocking down the fakers' front door.

i remember when shaquille o'neal phoned FRIENDS and FORMER OLYMPIC TEAMMATES karl malone and gary payton. BOTH took large paycuts to play in los angeles with their FRIEND and FORMER TEAMMATE.

what free agent is ready to take a pay cut to play with tobe?

exactly.

 

[cranrab]

Re: tobe has stern words after loss

tobe, his fans, and fakers fans in general are a sad indication of the current generation's mindset.

forget about hard work and self-improvement. why bother? go for the quick fix instead: trades and buying up free agents.

utah jazz' coach sloan said something after the game 1 win over the warriors that needs to be repeated OVER AND OVER AGAIN until these dumb ass kids (and their fans) understand it.

in basketball, it's ALL about a TEAM concept:

On the Deron Williams vs. Baron Davis matchup
“First of all we’re not trying to beat Baron Davis. We’re trying to beat the Golden State Warriors. That’s what we’ve told all of our players. If we’re going out there to try to beat an individual then we might as well forget about that. I don’t think our team is equipped to do that. We’re equipped to try to win as a team. He (Williams) had a nice game tonight and played extremely well but I never felt like he was trying to beat Baron Davis.”

 

[cranrab]

Re: tobe has stern words after loss

coach popovich summed it up too, after the spurs loss to the suns:

"You have to have five guys committed to doing the same thing. It seemed like we had three, maybe four at times, but not five. They had five guys commit to that for 48 minutes.”

it speaks to the mentality of TRUE competitors. do you want a string of meaningless scoring binges? or a winning team?

 

[Helico-pterFunk]

 

[SpiritualPorn]

Insidehoops board latest commentary:

Said it on ESPN shootaround:

Sources around the league say that Kobe is really furious (more than what he has publicly expressed) at the front office. When he re-signed, he was promised a contender to be built around him.

He wanted B. Davis, but the front office didnt do it. He wanted Boozer, but the front office couldn't get it done. He wanted Artest, didnt happen. He wanted Kidd...didn't happen.

In 05, when management decided to trade his best friend on the team [Caron Butler] for Kwame, the front office didn't even inform Kobe about it until after the trade had been made.

He said that Kobe just wants to be on a contending team - weather that's in LA or someplace else. And with the way things have been going, he wants to win more than he wants to be in LA.

If the front office doesn't get something significant done this summer, look for Kobe to ask to be traded.

VIDEO: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzbph7UqZUE
----------------------------

I kind of expected this. They really took him for granted and now its on their ass to get something done. From stars wanting to come to LA and them not getting anything done, bad FA signings, misuse of expiring contracts...

 

[idoit4theluv]

Y'all are tripping on here. Restructuring deals? LOL. This isn't the fucking NFL. Shaq didn't give up shit. Shaq got his ass traded because he was getting out of hand cussing the owner out "Pay me my fucking money" while running up the court in a fucking insignificant game in Hawaii and his refusal to get into any shape. EVEN THOUGH he had two years left on his deal. It took him to be humbled by being traded for him to have something to prove and get into shape. Now Miami is FUCKED and mortgaged off the next 3 years.

"I got hurt on company time, I'll rehab on company time" type shit. Shaq is a BAD MUTHAFUCKA, but work ethic, discipline and dedication would've made him the baddest muthafucka EVER!

 

[cranrab]

tobe

Y'all are tripping on here. Restructuring deals?

you of all people should know that restructuring is not allowed under the CBA EVEN IF the player consents.

the restructuring i was referring to was what SHOULD HAVE taken place when the fakers re-signed tobe.

or didn't anyone notice at the time that the fakers would be WELL OVER the salary cap, effectively limiting their personnel choices?

you can't believe that for a SECOND.

if tobe had WINNING on his mind, you know damn good and well he wouldn't have crippled his own team's ability to make roster moves.

 

[cranrab]

tobe

SP,

unlike mr. smith, i can give you a quote directly from the horse's mouth:

"get rid of all of them".

i wonder why that team doesn't feel like a team?

second, tobe may or may not have requested baron davis and carlos boozer, but only tobe and his monumentally stupid fans would overlook the reality of the situation.

the fakers are already over the salary cap now. how would the fakers have paid baron davis his $15M? how would the fakers have paid carlos boozer his $11M? and still been able to pay tobe his $17M for holding the fakers franchise hostage?

is anyone with a brain really going to pay 82% of the salary cap for 3 players?

finally, isn't it funny how 2 players (baron davis and carlos boozer) took their teams deeper into the playoffs but are being paid significantly less than the greatest fraud of all time?

 

[Rollie_Fingaz]

Kobe: What's the deal?
Bryant remains frustrated as he waits for Lakers to build a roster to take them to the next level
By Mike Bresnahan, Times Staff Writer
May 27, 2007

Time has not tempered the frustration felt by the cornerstone of the Lakers' franchise, who has watched two key teammates — Kwame Brown and Lamar Odom — face medical issues that have thrust their off-season into doubt, as well as many trade possibilities for the team.

The Lakers who were seen at the end of the season might look a lot like those that return for the start of 2007-08, with some minor additions here and there. It isn't sitting well with Kobe Bryant.

"I want to see us get to a contending level," he said Saturday with firmness in his voice. "I want to see us become a championship contender. It's been a frustrating process for me and I'm sure it's been a frustrating process for all Laker fans. I'm just hoping we can get to that level. I'm still frustrated. I'm waiting for them to make some changes."

Bryant, though, didn't want to elaborate on what changes he thought could be made.

It was an extension of what he said in the wake of the Lakers' playoff elimination on May 2, phrases and thoughts at the time that could have initially been chalked up to the sting of losing in five games to the Phoenix Suns. Instead, it's looking like Bryant's views will continue to be part of the backdrop, a marked change from the demeanor of the nine-time All-Star in recent seasons.

Lakers General Manager Mitch Kupchak declined to comment.

The Lakers have not won a playoff series since beating Minnesota in the 2004 Western Conference finals, but Bryant kept a patient outward manner over the years, often referring to the team's turnaround as a "process" and a "work in progress."

His dissatisfaction mounted as the team tumbled from a 26-13 start, and he eventually voiced signs of public discontent for the first time after a playoff loss to Phoenix in Game 1, saying, "We definitely have to get to that elite level, and get to that elite level, like, now."

Bryant, who has played 11 seasons with the Lakers and will turn 29 in August, has already logged 9,000 more minutes than Michael Jordan at the same age, and it can be argued that his 131 career playoff games increase his actual on-court time to more than 12 1/2 NBA seasons.

Earlier this month, after a meeting with Coach Phil Jackson and General Manager Mitch Kupchak after the Lakers' first-round playoff exit, Bryant expanded his views on the future.

"This is a competitive city," he said. "We're used to winning titles, not just winning games and being in the first round. We want to win championships. Now's the time.

"That's one of the things when I re-signed here, they promised they would build a contender and build a contender now. I don't want to have to wait any more than I already have."

Bryant said Saturday he did not want to be traded. He has a no-trade clause in his contract for what is believed to be two more seasons, although he holds the right to waive it. He still has four years and $88.6 million left on his contract and has the option of terminating the contract in two years, which would leave a hefty $47.8 million on the table.

The Lakers, for their part, don't have many tools for immediate improvement.

They are over the salary cap, which means the only way to drastically change their roster is to make trades, a task that became much harder with recent medical reports on Brown and Odom.

Odom had surgery last week to repair the torn labrum in his left shoulder, a procedure that will require about four months of recovery time. Brown will undergo surgery this week to remove bone spurs in his left ankle, and he might need reconstructive surgery on the ankle that would require a recovery period of several months.

The Western Conference seemingly got stronger last week when Portland and Seattle won the top two picks in the NBA draft lottery, likely adding Greg Oden and Kevin Durant to their rosters.

The Lakers have the 19th pick and two second-round selections in the June 28 draft. They could use the mid-level exception to sign a free agent for up to five years at about $30 million. Separately, they can offer their own free agent, Luke Walton, more than any other team when the free-agent negotiating period begins July 1.

 

[idoit4theluv]

Re: tobe

you of all people should know that restructuring is not allowed under the CBA EVEN IF the player consents.

the restructuring i was referring to was what SHOULD HAVE taken place when the fakers re-signed tobe.

or didn't anyone notice at the time that the fakers would be WELL OVER the salary cap, effectively limiting their personnel choices?

you can't believe that for a SECOND.

if tobe had WINNING on his mind, you know damn good and well he wouldn't have crippled his own team's ability to make roster moves.

Eh, our philosophies differ greatly, with all due respect. I NEVER ADVISE ANYONE TO EVER LEAVE A DOLLAR ON THE TABLE in their prime earning years.

If you are a guys like a GP or somebody who can perhaps get the MLE somewhere, but can play for a contender for the Vet's minimum, then that's up to you. I just calculate it as paying for a ring. Is that 3.5 million per season (or maybe you do a 1 year deal worth the ring)?

Personally it's not that serious to me. I would tell them to get that money and do something more substantive, i.e. bringing about some financial infrastructure that will create wealth for those who can't create for themselves. I just think as men we have to value more important things than the game. As much as i LOVE THE GAME and am thankful for all that it has allowed me to achieve business-wise and in building of relationships, it's still a game. I get frustrated with many players who don't realize their leverage and ability to exploit those who exploit us.

I hope you didn't buy into that whole Shaq called Riles and told him to keep 5 million per year to give him some help. Shaq's my guy and one of the realest dudes still doing it today, but giving up money is not in his character. Not to an owner anyways. Kobe definitely didn't cripple his team. Max contracts are the norm nowadays for ANY superstar and outside of Detroit, you'd be hard pressed to find a great team without 1 (usually 2) max or near max guys. LA can definitely support going over the cap if Mitch can execute some sign and trades. They bought B Grant out, which was foolish IMO. They could've waited a little long and tried to get someone to play ball and do that for the cap relief for a player who can do damage and probably needs a change of scenery (see Zach Randolph and Shawn Marion) and has a team that is merely tryig to clear cap space...

 

[cranrab]

Re: tobe

Eh, our philosophies differ greatly, with all due respect. I NEVER ADVISE ANYONE TO EVER LEAVE A DOLLAR ON THE TABLE in their prime earning years.

nor would i, UNLESS that player's alleges that his primary goal is winning.

for example, the 76ers were paying AI $16M, CW $19M, and samuel dalembert $8M in 2005-06. that was 87% of the salary cap for 3 players. needless to say, the 76ers were WAY OVER the salary cap.

was that a good faith sign to fans (and some players) that the 76ers were not cheap, and were willing to open up the checkbook to sign talent? YES.

but was it also foolish and stupid, because it severely handicapped them in their ability to pursue additional talent? YES.

at the same time, AI or CW (whose 2 salaries alone comprised 71% of the cap) forfeited any right to complain about a lack of being able to bring in new talent.

so again, i dont begrudge any athlete obtaining his/her maximum value; i'm all for it. but in doing so, those same athletes can not complain when their contracts compromise the franchise's ability to pursue (and pay) additional talent.

2 things to keep in mind:

1) not many teams stay under the salary cap. but 2 teams that did proved you can still have a winning record and make the playoffs: chicago and toronto.

2) the denver nuggets were over the cap. but they also managed their core player salaries well. they paid carmelo anthony, AI, nene hilario, marcus camby, and kenyon martin with only 92% of the cap.

 

[cranrab]

Re: tobe

the phoenix suns don't have a $17M man on their roster either.

more examples of successful clubs with core players under the salary cap, this time from the san antonio spurs:

tim duncan, tony parker, manu ginobili, michael finley, brent barry, bruce bowen, and fabricio oberto all get paid utilizing 94% of the cap. the top 7 players on the spurs (in terms of minutes played) got paid UNDER the cap.

i'm not 100% sure, but if i had to wager, i'm confident the utah jazz can make the same claim

so what about the fakers? have they been fiscally irresponsible? maybe. you got kwame brown, vladimir radmanovic and tobe taking up 60% of the cap already. definitely not worth it. throw in lamar odom and the fakers have already used 82% of the cap and don't even have a legit starting 5, much less a contender of any kind.

in your previous post, you used the word exploited. and that word is appropriate to describe william parker's situation. started more games in the past 2 seasons (individually and collectively) than any other faker, but remained the 2nd lowest paid player on the squad? got paid less than rookie jordan farmar and euro garbage sasha vujacic? he should be glad that he got his freedom.

 

[cranrab]

Re: tobe

I hope you didn't buy into that whole Shaq called Riles and told him to keep 5 million per year to give him some help. Shaq's my guy and one of the realest dudes still doing it today, but giving up money is not in his character. Not to an owner anyways.

you're correct, i would never buy into that version of events.

the FACT is that when coach riley interviewed with the fakers, he learned several things from fakers management that put the miami heat in the driver's seat to obtain shaquille o'neal through a trade. coach riley left los angeles with priceless intelligence that nobody else in the league had.

shaquille o'neal has been wrongly villified by the fakers, fakers fans, and the media over the trade demand.

let's look at some FACT: shaquille o'neal is happy to be playing for a team that is paying him LESS per season than what he was making SIX years ago.

in 2000, shaquille o'neal agreed to a 3 year extension for $88.5M with the fakers. the fakers happily paid it. from 2001 to 2004, the fakers never paid shaquille o'neal less than $20M per season.

in 2005, shaquille o'neal agreed to a 5 year contract for $100M with the miami heat. the heat happily paid it. the heat have paid shaquille o'neal $20M the past 2 seasons.

tobe fans say the fakers made the right move for the franchise, but the comparison indicates otherwise.

2005 heat: best conference record, ECF
2005 fakers: 4th worst conference record, no playoffs

2006 heat: 2nd best conference record, NBA champions
2006 fakers: 6th best conference record, 1st round playoffs

2007 heat: 5th best conference record, 1st round playoffs
2007 fakers: 8th best conference record, 1st round playoffs

i agree with fakers fans to a point; that point being that the fakers could very well not afford to pay both shaquille o'neal and tobe. going back to the salary cap issue, those 2 players alone would have definitely wiped out the entire cap by themselves.

the clear and obvious choice IMO would have been to re-sign shaquille o'neal and let tobe walk away as an uncompensated FA.

the fakers would have been able to pay shaquille o'neal, derek fisher (even at his higher FA price), gary payton, devean george and karl malone to return again under or at the 2004-05 salary cap ($43.8M).

can any reasonable person argue that the squad listed above could not do better than 34-48?

on the other hand, the fakers made their choice to opt for youth and a lower price tag. you get what you pay for: the 2000 version of jon koncak: tobe. in trading away the foundation of the franchise (shaquille o'neal), and sweeping away all traces of his existence (coach jackson, gary payton, karl malone, horace grant), the fakers could only get 5 returning players:

devean george
brian cook
luke walton
kareem rush
stanislav medvedenko

3 full seasons later, there is now a full body of ample evidence that points out that the correct decision was not made.

 

[Rollie_Fingaz]

Kobe had a chance to opt out 2 years ago. He had an ideal situation waiting in Denver. (And for those who think he wouldn't be accepted there, remember winning makes fans forget-just ask Ray Leiws.)

Denver needed a 2 guard when Voshon Leonard went down. Instead he chose to stay. I think he's regretting that now.

 

[cranrab]

tobe

i apologize to the OP, because i went on a bit of a tangent in my previous replies. i want to revisit the original topic of this thread.

i believe that the fakers (prodded by tobe) are in effect, throwing the baby out with the bath water. that is to say, the fakers are about to make questionable personnel moves at the bequest of their most immature player.

exhibit a: 2 months into the season, the fakers were 20-11
exhibit b: 3 months into the season, the fakers were 28-18

my question: had kwame brown, luke walton and lamar odom stayed healthy, would the fakers be at this "crossroads"?

my opinion: i don't think so.

my position: the fakers have enough talent (in spite of tobe), and the correct head coach to get them 50 wins and deeper into the playoffs. why commit knee-jerk roster moves based on the childish whims of a PROVEN loser?

PROOF:

fakers record without shaquille o'neal 1997-2004: 58-52 (52.7%)

fakers record without shaquille o'neal 2005-2007: 112-111 (50.2%)

52.7% and 50.2%. career long evidence is NOT a coincidence.

who should the fakers keep (assuming adequate health)?

maurice evans
lamar odom
ronny turiaf
brian cook
kwame brown
andrew bynum

which unrestricted FA should the fakers re-sign (again assuming adequate health)?

luke walton (even if they re-sign him at an unrestricted FA salary of $5M/per)
shammond williams
chris mihm

NOTE: keeping ALL of the players listed above would only comprise approximately 72% of the fakers cap space.

who should be traded?

tobe
sasha vujacic
vladimir radmanovic
jordan farmar

there are plenty of gullible GMs who could be swindled out of solid, actually talented players for tobe.

one example of a successful trade scenario (provided tobe waives his no-trade clause):

tobe,
sasha vujacic,
vladimir radmanovic, and
jordan farmar

go to the boston celtics for

delonte west,
rajon rondo,
theo ratliff,
allan ray, and
wally szczerbiak

 

[cranrab]

Re: tobe

BTW, for the record, i'm not a fan of the boston celtics or any of the players listed in the proposed trade above (except for theo ratliff).

also, the proposed trade would give boston a core lineup of:

tobe
paul pierce
al jefferson
kendrick perkins

the celtics would again own the dubious distinction of leading the NBA in starters who did not play in the NCAA. with the #5 (and #32) pick in the 2007 draft, the celtics could also draft for need right away.

the fakers would get an immediate influx of young backcourt talent. but this trade would have little hope of being done for no other reason than coach jackson prefers taller guards.

 

[Rollie_Fingaz]

For your consideration (I don't think this SHOULD happen..just a trade I was fucking with.):

L.A. Lakers/New Orleans Hornets Trade Breakdown

Outgoing

Kobe Bryant
6-6 SG from Lower Merion (HS)
31.6 ppg, 5.7 rpg, 5.4 apg in 40.8 minutes

Brian Cook
6-9 PF from Illinois
6.9 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 1.0 apg in 15.7 minutes

Incoming

Peja Stojakovic
6-9 SF from Serbia-Montenegro (Foreign)
17.8 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 0.9 apg in 32.8 minutes

Bobby Jackson
6-1 PG from Minnesota
10.6 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 2.5 apg in 23.9 minutes

Chris Paul
6-1 PG from Wake Forest
17.3 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 8.9 apg in 36.8 minutes

Successful Scenario
Due to L.A. Lakers and New Orleans being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. L.A. Lakers and New Orleans had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

Trade ID#: 3842045.

Then the Lakers pick up Bonzi Wells in free agency..and the Hornets pick up Steve Blake (or Chucky Atkins).

The Lakers will look like this

Starters:

PG: Chris Paul
SG: Bonzi Wells
SF Luke Walton
PF: Lamar Odom
C: Andrew Bynum

Bench:

Peja Stojakovic
Bobby Jackson
Ronny Turiaf
Jordan Farmar
Maurice Evans

The Hornets look like this:

Starters:

PG: Steve Blake (or Atkins)
SG: Kobe Bryant
SF Desmond Mason
PF: David West
C: Tyson Chandler

Bench:

Jannero Pargo
Rasul Butler
Marc Jackson
Brian Cook
Cedric Simmons

Both teams stay competitive. Kobe gets a number 2 dude in Mason and a above average center in Chandler. They would probablly have to bring in another PG.

Phil would have a nice young team to work with,,and if he doesn't like it there would be other coaches that he could use. (Rudy T. JVG, Larry Brown.)

 

[cranrab]

i hate dick vitale, but...

read what the man wrote in july 2004:

Ego + Selfishness = Kobe
Dick Vitale
SPECIAL TO ESPN.COM


July 16, 2004

I cannot believe how Kobe Bryant's ego has gotten in the way of things in Los Angeles. The Lakers have appeared in four of the past five NBA Finals, but evidently winning isn't enough for Bryant, who decided Thursday to re-sign with the Lakers (a seven-year deal worth $136.4 million).

Kobe Bryant's selfishness is no laughing matter.

Coach Phil Jackson is gone -- along with his nine championship rings -- and Shaquille O'Neal has been traded to the Miami Heat ... and Kobe claims he is all about winning?

Give me a break. He's all about points, points and more points. He wants to be The Man, scoring and keying the offense. If he really wanted to win, he would have patched up things with Shaq.

The way I see it, Kobe wants his 30 shots per game, and with the likely L.A. lineup he'll get the chance to launch plenty of jumpers. His team probably will win 50 regular-season games, but the components won't be there for the Lakers to win a championship.

No worries, because Kobe has three championship rings and plenty of money to buy other jewelry, but he won't be adding a fourth ring to his hand any time soon.

That isn't a knock on new Lakers coach Rudy Tomjanovich, who has two championship rings of his own from his days coaching the Houston Rockets. Rudy T was able to work with several superstars in Houston to get it done -- including Hakeem Olajuwon and Clyde Drexler -- and it's a shame he won't have the opportunity to coach a Shaq-Kobe combo.

Last year I wrote in my book "Living a Dream" that in 10 years, Kobe could be known as a better player than Michael Jordan. There's no way that will happen now.

Jordan was all about one thing -- winning. He was so focused on the task at hand that he even agreed to have Dennis Rodman join the Chicago Bulls because he felt the Worm could help them win another championship.

In my view, Kobe only cares about himself, scoring his points and being The Man. I couldn't believe my ears when I heard Kobe wanted to have 12 games played in Anaheim, close to his home, if he had signed with the Los Angeles Clippers as a free agent. Maybe he should put a court in his backyard and play the games there!

This type of attitude is what turns off fans and pushes them away from the NBA. Look at what has happened to coaches in recent years. Phil Jackson has nine championships to his credit, yet he loses his job after the Lakers fail to beat the Pistons. Byron Scott led the Nets to back-to-back championship series but loses his job. Come on, it's time to get real!

 

[Diamels]

Damn since when has Dick gone into the fortune telling business?

 

[Rollie_Fingaz]

Damn I've never seen Vitale jump in a niggas ass before (No homo)


DEALING WITH KOBE
by Peter Vescey-NY Post

LIAR, LIAR? The Lakers' Kobe Bryant seems to be talking out of both sides of his mouth, says Peter Vecsey, regarding his desire (or not) to leave Los Angeles.

May 29, 2007 -- ONE of the charms of being an embedded NBA correspondent over four decades is waking up each day and never worrying about groping or groveling (unlike the Spurs' Jacque Vaughn after Deron Williams' Game 3 cross-over faked him out of his Jacque) for subject matter.
There's no offseason for the off-centered - segueing us smack into Kobe Bryant. Having momentarily picked up his dribble once his liquidated Lakers careened off the exit ramp after their customary one-round-and-done playoff appearance, he's already back running his game on us.
Space constraints necessitate a synopsis:

Within the last 72 hours, Kobe, who cannot be traded without his approval, has vented his frustration with various West Coast reporters regarding his plight as a consistent championship pretender since the split with Shaquille O'Neal.
ESPN's Ric Bucher took that position a quantum leap further Sunday by quoting Kobe as saying he wanted to leave his purple-and-gold cocoon if Jerry West were not re-hired as personnel commander.

Or not.

Yesterday, two publications contradicted that version. According to their Kobe testimony, West's hiring was merely "a suggestion, not a demand."
One way or the other, it's not going to happen . . . other than West possibly consenting to become a long-distance consultant from his West Virginia domicile. Yesterday was the league logo's 69th birthday. As much as Kobe, as well as coach Phil Jackson, GM Mitch Kupchak and the snuggly Buss family (just to name four factions) all unmistakably want West's undivided attention, it's a trifle more important to him to raise the quality of his life as opposed to soaking it with the stress of upgrading the Lakers.

Oh, yeah, Kobe also told those same two publications the Lakers always have been the love his life, and, the last thing he and his Los Angeles-born wife want is to leave the City of Angels.

Does that mean Kobe was being disingenuous with Chicago when negotiating as a free agent in July of 2004? (He has said more than a few times the choice came down to the Bulls, Clippers and Lakers.) Or does Kobe's latest statement mean he's now being disingenuous?
It's my understanding Kobe recently informed Lakers ownership he'd sanction a trade to one specific team and no other. My source is oblivious to its identity. Logic dictates that team is the Bulls, because there's no way the Lakers would deal him to my Paper Clips. I'll leave speculation to those in the profession who make a living doing it: See recent groundless reports since the season ended pertaining to Kevin Garnett, Jermaine O'Neal, Pau Gasol and Vince Carter becoming Knicks.

I realize Pat Riley has asphyxiated Chicago Tribune conjecture the Heat are shopping Captain O'Neal. Still, given my preference, think about how many people would pay to see the Kobe and Shaq sequel. How great would Part 2 be? The West Coast version of Amy and Joey: the Spoiled Kid and the Fat Guy.

Who says it can't happen? Kobe forced Jerry and Jim Buss to dump Jackson and Shaq before he'd agree to re-sign. If Kobe's as dedicated to winning as advertised, he should've done everything in his power to keep that three-time title team intact - including Derek Fisher and Robert Horry, money decision deletions that probably cost the franchise $50 million to $60 million (Vladimir Radmanovic' mid-level exception, for starters) in a futile, sightless effort to replace.

One lost season later, Kobe endorsed the return of the Zen Hen, whose teams - with or without Michael Jordan or Shaq - always perform (16-16) at the after-party.

"Baron Davis is a good friend of mine, Carlos Boozer is a good friend of mine, Ron Artest is someone I've known since I was a kid . . . those are guys we could've gotten," Bryant misled the media Sunday. "For whatever reason, it didn't happen."

First off, Jazz executive Kevin O'Connor has maintained from the git-go Boozer was never available. The only reason his name got out there in trade talk was because Kobe and Carlos share the same sleazy agent, Rob Pelinka.

Second, even had the Lakers been able to snare Boozer, closing any one of those deals would've cost them Lamar Odom for salary and skill purposes. How much better would that have made them? The truth is, they never should've dealt Caron Butler for Kwame Brown. That swap will haunt them into the hereafter.

Had Kobe's ball bearings been functioning fluently, he would've focused instead on Jason Kidd. That's someone the Lakers indeed could've had this past February at trade deadline. All they had to do was surrender Andrew Bynum in a package that excluded Odom.

If the idea is to win now, as Kobe and Kupchak insist, that exchange should've been executed without a second thought. Because now major roster improvement figures to be doubly expensive, both Odom and Bynum for someone special.

In the final analysis I'm unsure what to make of Kobe's bendable benedictions. But I am certain of one thing. I'll know he lied to me when the jeweler calls and asks me for my ring size.

 

[cranrab]

tobe

alleged statements and obvious retractions aside, WTF is this dumb ass m.f. doing by airing out EVERYthing through the media?

regardless of what was said (or was not said), why is tobe seeking out ESPN the magazine? the l.a. times? the o.c. register?

tobe's spin doctors used to blame shaquille o'neal for these eruptions in the media. now it's crystal clear (for those who couldn't see through the smokescreen before) that the problem has ALWAYS been tobe whining in the media. ALWAYS.

i guess tobe graduated from the terrell owens school of problem solving.

 

[Spectrum]

Re: tobe

^^^

This is all really out of control. I mentioned this earlier this year in a post on the sports board: Kobe has the mentality of a person who has been pampered his entire life and has not fully matured psychologically. The concepts of accountability and self-reflection seem very foreign to himself..this cat always finds a culprit for his actions..in his own mind, he can really do no wrong... He conducts himself like an immature child sometimes..

 

[cranrab]

Re: tobe

Kobe should take a page from LeBron's book
Mark Kriegel / FOXSports.com
Posted: 6 hours ago

As viewed from Los Angeles, a town that has been more egregiously indulgent of Kobe Bryant than any of its teen starlets, the Cavaliers post-game press conference came as a welcome event. After Cleveland's improbable victory over the Detroit Pistons, one would expect LeBron James at the podium. Less expected, however, was one Daniel "Boobie" Gibson, a second-round pick out of Texas.


LeBron James took Daniel Gibson under his wing, and 'Boobie' has paid him back in full. (Amy Sancetta / Associated Press)
At 21, Boobie's not much. He's neither big, nor, as his draft status suggests, did he arrive in Cleveland with much of a rep. In fact, he spent most of his rookie season — the regular portion of which concluded with averages of 16.5 minutes and 4.5 points — on the bench.

In other words, he's exactly the kind of scrub Kobe Bryant would whine about having to play with.

But there he was, the unlikely hero of an historic upset. His line in the boxscore included 31 points, 19 in the fourth quarter when Detroit and Rasheed Wallace imploded for the last time.

When asked to what he attributed his great good fortune, Gibson could not have been more clear.

"From day one," he said, "LeBron's been in my corner."

I found myself wondering if Kobe was watching. I sure hoped he was, as he had subjected me to a miserable couple of days during which he thought to air his demands. Said demands might be summarized thusly:

Trade me. I want to be a Laker. Trade me. I want to be a Laker. Trade me. I want to be a Laker for life.

Lindsay Lohan, recently arrested on suspicion of drunk driving, made more sense when she cracked up her convertible on Sunset.

In keeping with this starlet theme, one can't help but think the timing of the tantrum had something to do with the ascent of James and the Cavaliers. Perhaps Kobe couldn't stand the lack of attention this time of year. Or, perhaps he knows that the comparison with LeBron James does not flatter him at all.

Bryant keeps complaining about the Lakers' lack of talent. But with the case of Boobie Gibson now in evidence, I would submit that there's not much difference between the talent level surrounding James and Bryant. In fact, let's dispatch right here with the fictitious notion that the Lakers without Kobe are a bunch of scrubs. LeBron James doesn't have anyone nearly as talented as Lamar Odom. The difference is how each star treats the talent around him.

Can you imagine any of the Lakers saying about Kobe what Gibson said about LeBron?

No.

Boobie Gibson went on about how James would encourage him after practice. "Keep shooting," he told the rookie. "Don't worry about nothing."

"My teammates," said James, "(are) my family."

To watch the Cleveland-Detroit series was to acknowledge James' greatness. He shoots when he has to, and from as far as need be. He can attack the rim like Bryant, but see the court like Magic Johnson. Still, his strength and quickness suggest yet another Laker legend, James Worthy. But even more striking than his individual attributes was the unmistakable sense that guys liked playing with, and for, LeBron James.

Last month, on the eve of the Cavaliers engagement with the Nets, Richard Jefferson was asked to assess the degree of difficulty in trying to guard James. The key, said Jefferson, was "he gets his teammates involved...It's not just the LeBron show. He's not a Kobe Bryant where he's just going to go out there and score at all costs."

Great players are supposed to endow the players around them with greatness. Kobe Bryant does not. While James is about winning, Kobe is about Kobe.


Kobe Bryant is driving a wedge between him and the rest of the Lakers. (Ross D. Franklin / Associated Press)

In relation to his teammates, Bryant inhabits a parallel universe, separate and unequal. Perhaps you recall former Laker Chucky Atkins remarking with some frustration, "Kobe's the GM of this team." I'll not forget the way he showed up his teammate, Luke Walton, who had the temerity to pass the ball back to him during an overtime loss to the Knicks. And while there's some fantastic revisionism emanating from the Lakers' high command, you may remember that even his own coach couldn't stand him.

You think anything has really changed?

Kobe Bryant doesn't instill confidence in the guys in the locker room. He communicates by text message.

In fairness, it's worth mentioning that Bryant plays in the West, where the Cavaliers would have had a much more difficult time. Also, there were injuries to key Lakers this past season, especially the one to Lamar Odom. But this idea that Bryant cannot deign to trust his teammates is nonsense. No one's asking him to trust Boobie Gibson. Again, put Bryant in context: this is a guy who couldn't trust Shaquille O'Neal.

Kobe Bryant is going to be 29 soon, and entering his 12th NBA season. He provided a partial template for LeBron James. He was the first, a basketball prodigy with a huge sneaker deal before he left high school.

James is only 22, and about to play in his first Finals. But suddenly this gap in age and experience counts for nothing. It is James who now sets the example. In watching him, Bryant may yet learn the difference between a starlet and a star.

 

[Spectrum]

Re: tobe

nice article

 

[Diamels]

thanks for the article.