Black Ops in New Orleans?

orange roughy

Rising Star
Platinum Member
a friend of mine told me that he heard Dick Gregory on Joe Madison's radio broadcast last weekend and that there was a discussion about a federal black ops group down there that used the hurricane as a cover to try to assassinate some of the NO police and officials. Supposedly these black ops guys were nto successful and wer found handing upside down from a bridge as evidence.

Did anybody hear the interview, or better yet, have it or a transcript? Or know anymore about this?

OR
 
orange roughy said:
a friend of mine told me that he heard Dick Gregory on Joe Madison's radio broadcast last weekend and that there was a discussion about a federal black ops group down there that used the hurricane as a cover to try to assassinate some of the NO police and officials. Supposedly these black ops guys were nto successful and wer found handing upside down from a bridge as evidence.

Did anybody hear the interview, or better yet, have it or a transcript? Or know anymore about this?

OR


I did a lil research....peep it







The Great New Orleans Land Grab





The 17th Street Canal levy was breeched on purpose
by
Ernesto Cienfuegos
La Voz de Aztlan

Los Angeles, Alta California - September 7, 2005 - (ACN) There were numerous incidents that occurred during and immediately after Katrina struck that point to the "unthinkable". It now appears that a sophisticated plan was implemented that utilized the "cover of a hurricane" to first destroy and than take over the City of New Orleans? As the world watched the events unfolding, one could not help think that something was terribly afoot concerning the rescue by FEMA of the city's poor and predominate Black population. It seems that a well laid out plan was put into effect to grab valuable real estate from well established but poverty stricken Black families of New Orleans? What is being implemented now is nothing less than a sophisticated scheme to purge and ethnically cleanse what Whites have termed "Black and 'welfare bloated' New Orleans".

Among the most telling anomalies pointing to something terribly afoot is the gun battle, killing 5, that occurred at the breeched levy between the New Orleans Police Department and, what have now been identified as US military agents. An Associated Press report, which has now disappeared, stated that at least five USA Defense Department personnel where shot dead by New Orleans police officers in the proximity of the breeched levy. A spokesman for the Army Corps of Engineers said later that those killed were "federal contractors" on their way to "repair" a canal. The "contractors" were on their way to launch barges into Lake Pontchartrain, in an operation to "fix" the 17th Street Canal, according to the Army Corps of Engineers spokesman. Deputy Police Chief W.J. Riley of New Orleans later reported that his policemen had shot at eight suspicious people near the breeched levy, killing five or six.

Who were these "military agents" that were killed by the police near the 17th Street Canal breeched levy and what were they doing there? Why did the New Orleans police find it necessary to shoot and kill 5 or 6 of them? No one is saying anything and it appears that the news story has now been swept under the rug. Were these US Department of Defense personnel a Special Forces group or Navy Seals with top secret orders to sabotaged the levy? There are verifiable reports that at least 100 New Orleans police officers have disappeared from the face of the earth and that two have committed suicide. Could these be policemen that died defending the levy against sabotage by "federal contractors"?
Another telling incident that points to a "nefarious plan" is what New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin said at the height of the crisis. He said publicly, "I fear the CIA may take me out!" Mayor Nagin, a Black, said this twice. He told a reporter for the Associated Press: "If the CIA slips me something and next week you don't see me, you'll all know what happened." Later he told interviewers for CNN on a live broadcast that he feared the "CIA might take me out." What does Mayor Ray Nagin know and why does he fear the CIA?

In an interview by WWL TV, Mayor Nagin complained vociferously that Louisiana National Guard Blackhawk helicopters were being stopped from dropping sandbags to plug the levy soon after it breeched. There is evidence that no repairs were allowed on the levy until after New Orleans was totally flooded!

Many civilian groups who were attempting to aid people trapped in their attics, on their roofs and at the Superdome are reporting that FEMA, other federal agents and the US military essentially "stopped" them from doing so. Convoys that were organized by truckers and carrying "food and water" were blocked by agents of the federal government on the highways and roads leading to New Orleans. The American Red Cross, in addition, encountered numerous incidents and has made formal complaints.

A private ham radio network that deployed throughout the hurricane ravished region reported that the airwaves were being "jammed" making it impossible to communicate emergency information. Churches, hospitals and other essential community groups reported that the first thing that the US military did, when they arrived, was to cut their telephone lines and confiscate communications devices. We all witnessed news reports and heard statements by flood victims concerning the behavior of the US military. Many Black families complained that military vehicles did not stop to assist them but just drove by. One news report showed military personnel playing cards inside a barrack while Black citizens were dying of thirst and hunger.

Today, it is very revealing how the federal government is handling the disaster. They want every Black out of New Orleans and those who insist on staying in their homes will be removed by force. The government, through some media, is utilizing scare tactics to cleanse New Orleans of all Blacks. They want no witnesses and this will make the "land grab" a lot easier to undertake. One scare tactic is calling the flood water "a horrid toxic soup of feces a rotting flesh of corpses". The military thugs are now getting tough with Black families that have owned their old but beloved homes for many generations. Mr. Rufus Johnson, a family patriarch who lives in the French Quarter, said in an interview, "The army has given me an ultimatum to leave or suffer the consequences of a forced eviction. I do not understand . My entire family and I survived Katrina and now they want to throw me out of the home we have had for generations". Mr. Johnson lives in a neighborhood where the flood has subsided and his home is not heavily damaged yet FEMA wants him out!



The fact that Vice President Dick Cheney is heavily involved in the FEMA operations from behind the scenes is very troublesome. Cheney and his cronies at Halliburton are in line for the lucrative contracts to "reconstruct a New Orleans".



Deals are already being made with a Las Vegas business group to construct multi-million dollar casinos in the Big Easy on prime real estate that was owned by Black families. Whites throughout history have been notorious "land grabbers". In the USA they first confiscated land that belonged to American Indians. Most of the Indians ended up in worthless tracts of land called "reservations". The largest "land grab", however, was the theft of Aztlan. This occurred soon after the Mexican-American War. In Alta California , vast "Ranchos" were stolen from the Californios through a variety of scams. A favorite ploy was to impose extremely heavy land taxes on the Mexicans and then foreclosing on the properties. The land was then given or sold at very low prices to the Forty Niners who came in large hordes to Alta California during the so called "Gold Rush" of 1849


http://www.dickgregory.com/index2.html
 
THE TRUTH WILL NEVER BE TOLD SOME WHITE REPORTERS WANT TO SPILL THE BEANS BUT ARE SCARED TO LOOSE THEY JOB AND POSSIBLE LIFE REPRTER LIKE ANDERSON COOPER I THINK HE WANTS TO SPILL SOMETHING BUT AFRAID TO DO SO :devil:
 
mrjamaica said:
THE TRUTH WILL NEVER BE TOLD SOME WHITE REPORTERS WANT TO SPILL THE BEANS BUT ARE SCARED TO LOOSE THEY JOB AND POSSIBLE LIFE REPRTER LIKE ANDERSON COOPER I THINK HE WANTS TO SPILL SOMETHING BUT AFRAID TO DO SO :devil:


....Yes ...we are going to be living in a Police State...that is next...
 
Blah, Blah, Blah. This is such bullshit. For one, the reason the government could not fix the levees earlier is because the water pressure from the break was too high. They actually tried before it was advisable, and the 6,000 ponud sandbags got washed away. Where is that AP report. I have a Lexis account and had all NO articles flagged, and never recieved that one. Please post something more substantial than this. If they wanted to gentrify, they would.
 
For real, this goes right along with the government technology to create Hurricanes. These folks in Vegas probably paid the Japanese for the technology, picked N.O. as a perfect target, created a Hurricane and aimed it at N.O. to create a distraction so that they could blow up the levy in the perfect spot so it would flood the city and force the poor black people out.

Man, what a perfect plan....
 
LEAVE YOUR CRITICAL THINKING AT THE DOOR THEN........


LAUGH NOW.............CRY LATER





QueEx said:
<font size="4">LOL</font size>





MALCOLM X:
.....



If you don't think that they [the Government and the Press]
are in cahoots -- watch! They are ALL interested, or NONE of them
are interested! It's not a staggering thing. They're not going to
say anything in advance that's being given by any Black people who
believe in functioning beyond the scope of the ground rules that are
laid down by the liberal element of the power structure. When you
begin thinking for yourself, you frighten them. And they try to
block your getting to the Public for fear that if the Public listens
to you, then the Public won't listen to them anymore.

They've got certain Negroes whom they have to keep pumping up in the
newspapers to make them look like leaders, so that the People will
keep on following them no matter how many knots they get on the head
following him. This is how "the man" does it. And if you don't wake
up and find out HOW he does it -- I tell you -- they'll be building
gas chambers and gas ovens pretty soon.
I don't mean those kinds you got at home in your kitchen.



Another example, at the international level, of how skillfully they
use this trickery, was in the the Congo. In the Congo, airplanes
were dropping bombs on African villages. African villages don't have
a defense against bombs. And the pilot can't tell who the bomb is
being dropped upon. When a bomb hits the village, EVERYTHING goes.
These pilots -- flying planes filled with bombs, dropping these
bombs on African villages -- were destroying women, were destroying
children, were destroying babies. You never heard any outcry over
here about that! And it had started way back in June. They would
drop bombs on African villages that would blow that village apart,
and everything in it: man, woman child and baby.

No outcry! No sympathy! No support! No concern! Because the PRESS
didn't project it in such a way that it would be designed to GET
your sympathy. They know how to put something so that you will
sympathize with it, and they know how to put it so that you'll be
against it. I'm telling you, they are MASTERS at it. And if you
don't develop the analytical ability to read between the lines of
what they're saying -- I'm telling you again -- they'll be building
those gas ovens. And before you wake up, you'll be in one of them,
just like the Jews ended up in gas ovens over there in Germany.

You are in a society that is just as capable of building gas ovens
for Black people as Hitler's society was.

This was mass murder, in the Congo, of women and children. But there
was no outcry, not even from the White liberals -- not even from
your friends. Why? Because they made it appear that it was a
humanitarian project. They said that the planes were being flown by
American-trained, anti-Castro, Cuban pilots. This is propaganda,
too. As soon as you hear that they're American-trained, you say:
"Oh, that's alright. That's us." And of the anti-Castro Cubans, you
say: "Oh, that's alright, too, because if they're against Castro,
whoever else they're against, that's good, because Castro is a
monster."

Do you see how, step-by-step, they grab your mind?

These pilots are hired ... their salaries are paid by the United
States Government. These pilots are called "mercenaries."
A mercenary is not someone who kills you because he is patriotic.
He kills you for blood money. He is a hired killer! This is what is
meant by "a mercenary". And they are able to take these HIRED
KILLERS, put them in AMERICAN planes, with AMERICAN bombs, and drop
them on African villages, blowing to bits Black men, Black women,
Black children, Black babies. And you Black people are sitting over
here, cool, like it doesn't even involve you. You're a FOOL !!

They'll do it to them today. They'll do it to you tomorrow.







eewwll said:
LOL.

I'm never amazed by the conspiracy theories posted here.




The Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment

The United States government did something that was wrong—deeply, profoundly, morally wrong. It was an outrage to our commitment to integrity and equality for all our citizens. . . . clearly racist.
—President Clinton's apology for the Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment to the eight remaining survivors, May 16, 1997
For forty years between 1932 and 1972, the U.S. Public Health Service (PHS) conducted an experiment on 399 black men in the late stages of syphilis. These men, for the most part illiterate sharecroppers from one of the poorest counties in Alabama, were never told what disease they were suffering from or of its seriousness. Informed that they were being treated for “bad blood,”1 their doctors had no intention of curing them of syphilis at all. The data for the experiment was to be collected from autopsies of the men, and they were thus deliberately left to degenerate under the ravages of tertiary syphilis—which can include tumors, heart disease, paralysis, blindness, insanity, and death. “As I see it,” one of the doctors involved explained, “we have no further interest in these patients until they die.”

Using Human Beings as Laboratory Animals
The true nature of the experiment had to be kept from the subjects to ensure their cooperation. The sharecroppers' grossly disadvantaged lot in life made them easy to manipulate. Pleased at the prospect of free medical care—almost none of them had ever seen a doctor before—these unsophisticated and trusting men became the pawns in what James Jones, author of the excellent history on the subject, Bad Blood, identified as “the longest nontherapeutic experiment on human beings in medical history.”

The study was meant to discover how syphilis affected blacks as opposed to whites—the theory being that whites experienced more neurological complications from syphilis whereas blacks were more susceptible to cardiovascular damage. How this knowledge would have changed clinical treatment of syphilis is uncertain. Although the PHS touted the study as one of great scientific merit, from the outset its actual benefits were hazy. It took almost forty years before someone involved in the study took a hard and honest look at the end results, reporting that “nothing learned will prevent, find, or cure a single case of infectious syphilis or bring us closer to our basic mission of controlling venereal disease in the United States.” When the experiment was brought to the attention of the media in 1972, news anchor Harry Reasoner described it as an experiment that “used human beings as laboratory animals in a long and inefficient study of how long it takes syphilis to kill someone.”

A Heavy Price in the Name of Bad Science
By the end of the experiment, 28 of the men had died directly of syphilis, 100 were dead of related complications, 40 of their wives had been infected, and 19 of their children had been born with congenital syphilis. How had these men been induced to endure a fatal disease in the name of science? To persuade the community to support the experiment, one of the original doctors admitted it “was necessary to carry on this study under the guise of a demonstration and provide treatment.” At first, the men were prescribed the syphilis remedies of the day—bismuth, neoarsphenamine, and mercury—but in such small amounts that only 3 percent showed any improvement. These token doses of medicine were good public relations and did not interfere with the true aims of the study. Eventually, all syphilis treatment was replaced with “pink medicine”—aspirin. To ensure that the men would show up for a painful and potentially dangerous spinal tap, the PHS doctors misled them with a letter full of promotional hype: “Last Chance for Special Free Treatment.” The fact that autopsies would eventually be required was also concealed. As a doctor explained, “If the colored population becomes aware that accepting free hospital care means a post-mortem, every darky will leave Macon County…” Even the Surgeon General of the United States participated in enticing the men to remain in the experiment, sending them certificates of appreciation after 25 years in the study.

Following Doctors' Orders
It takes little imagination to ascribe racist attitudes to the white government officials who ran the experiment, but what can one make of the numerous African Americans who collaborated with them? The experiment's name comes from the Tuskegee Institute, the black university founded by Booker T. Washington. Its affiliated hospital lent the PHS its medical facilities for the study, and other predominantly black institutions as well as local black doctors also participated. A black nurse, Eunice Rivers, was a central figure in the experiment for most of its forty years. The promise of recognition by a prestigious government agency may have obscured the troubling aspects of the study for some. A Tuskegee doctor, for example, praised “the educational advantages offered our interns and nurses as well as the added standing it will give the hospital.” Nurse Rivers explained her role as one of passive obedience: “we were taught that we never diagnosed, we never prescribed; we followed the doctor's instructions!” It is clear that the men in the experiment trusted her and that she sincerely cared about their well-being, but her unquestioning submission to authority eclipsed her moral judgment. Even after the experiment was exposed to public scrutiny, she genuinely felt nothing ethical had been amiss.

One of the most chilling aspects of the experiment was how zealously the PHS kept these men from receiving treatment. When several nationwide campaigns to eradicate venereal disease came to Macon County, the men were prevented from participating. Even when penicillin was discovered in the 1940s—the first real cure for syphilis—the Tuskegee men were deliberately denied the medication. During World War II, 250 of the men registered for the draft and were consequently ordered to get treatment for syphilis, only to have the PHS exempt them. Pleased at their success, the PHS representative announced: “So far, we are keeping the known positive patients from getting treatment.” The experiment continued in spite of the Henderson Act (1943), a public health law requiring testing and treatment for venereal disease, and in spite of the World Health Organization's Declaration of Helsinki (1964), which specified that “informed consent” was needed for experiment involving human beings.

Blowing the Whistle
The story finally broke in the Washington Star on July 25, 1972, in an article by Jean Heller of the Associated Press. Her source was Peter Buxtun, a former PHS venereal disease interviewer and one of the few whistle blowers over the years. The PHS, however, remained unrepentant, claiming the men had been “volunteers” and “were always happy to see the doctors,” and an Alabama state health officer who had been involved claimed “somebody is trying to make a mountain out of a molehill.”

Under the glare of publicity, the government ended their experiment, and for the first time provided the men with effective medical treatment for syphilis. Fred Gray, a lawyer who had previously defended Rosa Parks and Martin Luther King, filed a class action suit that provided a $10 million out-of-court settlement for the men and their families. Gray, however, named only whites and white organizations in the suit, portraying Tuskegee as a black and white case when it was in fact more complex than that—black doctors and institutions had been involved from beginning to end.

The PHS did not accept the media's comparison of Tuskegee with the appalling experiments performed by Nazi doctors on their Jewish victims during World War II. Yet in addition to the medical and racist parallels, the PHS offered the same morally bankrupt defense offered at the Nuremberg trials: they claimed they were just carrying out orders, mere cogs in the wheel of the PHS bureaucracy, exempt from personal responsibility.

The study's other justification—for the greater good of science—is equally spurious. Scientific protocol had been shoddy from the start. Since the men had in fact received some medication for syphilis in the beginning of the study, however inadequate, it thereby corrupted the outcome of a study of “untreated syphilis.”

In 1990, a survey found that 10 percent of African Americans believed that the U.S. government created AIDS as a plot to exterminate blacks, and another 20 percent could not rule out the possibility that this might be true. As preposterous and paranoid as this may sound, at one time the Tuskegee experiment must have seemed equally farfetched. Who could imagine the government, all the way up to the Surgeon General of the United States, deliberately allowing a group of its citizens to die from a terrible disease for the sake of an ill-conceived experiment? In light of this and many other shameful episodes in our history, African Americans' widespread mistrust of the government and white society in general should not be a surprise to anyone. —BB

1. All quotations in the article are from Bad Blood: The Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment, James H. Jones, expanded edition (New York: Free Press, 1993).


Information Please® Database, © 2005 Pearson Education, Inc. All rights reserved











vitrifier said:
For real, this goes right along with the government technology to create Hurricanes. These folks in Vegas probably paid the Japanese for the technology, picked N.O. as a perfect target, created a Hurricane and aimed it at N.O. to create a distraction so that they could blow up the levy in the perfect spot so it would flood the city and force the poor black people out.

Man, what a perfect plan....


The Nazis harassed and brutalized the Jews throughout the 1920s during the "struggle for power." Speech after speech painted the Jews as Germany's "misfortune" and prophesied a time of reckoning.

When the Nazis came to power in 1933, the Jews were their very first target. The infamous boycott against Jewish businesses took place in April 1933 and the first laws against the Jews were enacted as early as on April 7, 1933.10 Jews were progressively erased from almost every facet of German life.11 The Nuremberg Laws, passed in 1935, further tightened the noose, depriving the Jews of almost every remaining right and freedom.12 This culminated in the bloodiest pogrom to date the Kristallnacht (Night of Broken Glass) in November 1938. Over 100 Jews were murdered and a "fine" was levied against the Jews in excess of 1 billion RM.

By the outbreak of World War II, actions taken against the Jews included marking them13 and ghettoizing them.14 By the time of the invasion of the Soviet Union in 1941, the decision had been taken to kill the eastern European Jews






Fuckallyall said:
Blah, Blah, Blah. This is such bullshit. For one, the reason the government could not fix the levees earlier is because the water pressure from the break was too high. They actually tried before it was advisable, and the 6,000 ponud sandbags got washed away. Where is that AP report. I have a Lexis account and had all NO articles flagged, and never recieved that one. Please post something more substantial than this. If they wanted to gentrify, they would.











LSU storm expert rejects levee failure explanation

By MIKE DUNNE
mdunne@theadvocate.com
Advocate staff writer


Advocate staff photo by RICHARD ALAN HANNON
The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers uses steel pilings Wednesday to close off the 17th Street Canal to protect it from any storm surge caused by Hurricane Rita. Floodwalls along the canal broke during Hurricane Katrina, allowing water to pour into New Orleans.
An LSU hurricane expert said floodwalls on the 17th Street and London Avenue canals in New Orleans weren't "overtopped" by Hurricane Katrina's storm surge, meaning the structures failed for other reasons.
Paul Kemp, director of the Natural Systems Modeling Group at LSU's Center for Coastal, Energy, and Environmental Resources, said researchers studying watermarks and other evidence to sharpen their future predictions saw no evidence that walls along the two canals had been overtopped. Breaches along those canals accounted for much of the flooding in New Orleans.

The findings of the LSU center, which predicts hurricane storm surges for emergency officials, clashes with the explanation that has been given by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers.

The corps has said the floodwalls collapsed after water flowed over them, eroding the back-side levees inside which the floodwalls were erected. Once that support was eroded, the floodwalls burst, sending water pouring into the Lakeview area and all the way to downtown, the corps surmised.

But Kemp said his group's models are designed to predict levee overtopping. The predictions called for 11- to 12-foot surges in the canals, he said. Overtopping would have required about 14 feet, he said.

Observations on the ground after the storm support those predictions, he said.

"I could not find evidence of overtopping inside the canals," Kemp said.

Water cascading over the tops of the floodwalls would have eroded trenches in the levees in which the walls were built, he said. That doesn't appear to have happened, he said.

"If they are not overtopped, it means they failed at some lower elevation" of water, Kemp said.

Corps spokesman Mitch Frazier said Wednesday that the agency is focused on pumping the water out of New Orleans and preparing for problems that could spin off Hurricane Rita as it crosses the Gulf of Mexico.

The corps' headquarters will conduct an investigation into why the floodwalls broke and other issues associated with Katrina's flooding, Frazier said. Knowing what went wrong will help the agency design a solution to keep flood waters out of New Orleans during hurricanes, he said.

As of Wednesday, 90 percent of New Orleans had been pumped dry, well ahead of original projections, Frazier said.

Kemp said his researchers did see evidence of overtopping along the Industrial Canal. Breaches in the levee along that canal helped flood the 9th Ward and parts of St. Bernard Parish.

Kemp's computer models show a combination of the intersection of two shipping channels and the levee system conspired to drive water high enough to overwhelm flood protection along the Industrial Canal.

One of those shipping channels is the Mississippi River Gulf Outlet, a deep-draft channel cutting through St. Bernard Parish.

The other is the Gulf Intracoastal Water Way, which barges use to avoid the open water of the Gulf of Mexico. It cuts through marshlands between Lake Pontchartrain and Lake Borgne.

"The model shows that's where the largest surges in the Louisiana system built up," Kemp said.

Another large surge was around the mouth of the Mississippi at Buras, he said.

The shape of the levees works with the shipping channels to funnel water into the Industrial Canal, where it has no place to go but up, he said.

A surge coming into Lake Pontchartrain would have more space to spread out, Kemp said.

While the Mississippi River Gulf Outlet provided an easy channel for storm surge, the flooding in the St. Bernard area was almost tsunami-like, covering the whole parish, he said.

"There was a lot of momentum in the wave," Kemp said.

A pressing question is where Hurricane Rita's storm surge will go, he said. Even a small one of 3 feet could threaten the battered and weakened levee system in New Orleans, Kemp said.

On Wednesday, the corps was shoring up that system by driving sheet pilings into the mouths of the 17th Street and the London Avenue canals where they empty into Lake Pontchartrain.

The canals will remain closed until the threat of severe weather passes. More than 800 filled sandbags are on hand, and an additional 2,500 have been ordered.
 
Katacana,

The Tuskegee experiment is documented..that does not equate to a conspiracy theory. There is a difference between possibility and plausibility.


Again man, these theories are getting out of hand in this posts

1) Japanese Mafia created Hurricane Katrina

2) Chinese government created Hurricane Katrina

3) Bush created it to wipe out black population of New Orleans

Come on. There is a difference between drawing logical connected..like the banking families behind the creation of the Federal Reserve System and speculate as to the real cause of the Great Depression that prompted its creation....This is the type of conspiracy theory that even through all the murkiness you can draw some striking conclusions based on the evidence

as opposed to some of the theories that have been posted here lately that don't even have scientific merit.

I'm saying that there needs to be a basic understanding of whatever is you are talking about and look at all these conspiracy theories with a critical eye because they typically have HUGE GAPING holes in the theory.
 
eewwll said:
Katacana,

The Tuskegee experiment is documented..that does not equate to a conspiracy theory. There is a difference between possibility and plausibility.



as opposed to some of the theories that have been posted here lately that don't even have scientific merit.

I'm saying that there needs to be a basic understanding of whatever is you are talking about and look at all these conspiracy theories with a critical eye because they typically have HUGE GAPING holes in the theory
Again man, these theories are getting out of hand in this posts

.





eewll,

Do you know what a conspiracy is? here is a working definition for you:


Main Entry: con·spire
Pronunciation: k&n-'spIr
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): con·spired; con·spir·ing
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French conspirer, from Latin conspirare to be in harmony, conspire, from com- + spirare to breathe
transitive senses : PLOT, CONTRIVE
intransitive senses
1 a : to join in a secret agreement to do an unlawful or wrongful act or an act which becomes unlawful as a result of the secret agreement b : SCHEME
2 : to act in harmony toward a common end <circumstances conspired to defeat his efforts>
3 entries found for conspiracy.
To select an entry, click on it.
conspiracyconspiracy of silenceconspiracy theory

Main Entry: con·spir·a·cy
Pronunciation: k&n-'spir-&-sE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -cies
Etymology: Middle English conspiracie, from Latin conspirare
1 : the act of conspiring together
2 a : an agreement among conspirators b : a group of conspirators1)



http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/conspiring



I have never said the Tuskegee Experiment was a conspiracy theory.......the Tuskegee Experiment is more than a theory, it was actually enacted and secretly conspired by the US government ( yes, it was a Conspiracy).


Another sanctioned Conspiracy:



Do you know about the Cointelpro Program created by the FBI? "COINTELPRO" was the FBI's secret program to undermine the popular upsurge which swept the country during the 1960s. Though the name stands for "Counterintelligence Program," the targets were not enemy spies. The FBI set out to eliminate "radical" political opposition inside the US. When traditional modes of repression (exposure, blatant harassment, and prosecution for political crimes) failed to counter the growing insurgency, and even helped to fuel it, the Bureau took the law into its own hands and secretly used fraud and force to sabotage constitutionally- protected political activity. Its methods ranged far beyond surveillance, and amounted to a domestic version of the covert action for which the CIA has become infamous throughout the world.


The FBI conspired to "stop the rise of a Black Messiah," these words were actually in FBI documents released by the Freedom of Information Act of 1975. That Cointelpro program is Conspiracy at it's highest level, it's a group of people conspiring to do ill will.



The FBI secretly instructed its field offices to propose schemes to "misdirect, discredit, disrupt and otherwise neutralize "specific individuals and groups. Close coordination with local police and prosecutors was encouraged. Final authority rested with top FBI officials in Washington, who demanded assurance that "there is no possibility of embarrassment to the Bureau." More than 2000 individual actions wereofficially approved. The documents reveal three types of methods:
1. Infiltration: Agents and informers did not merely spy on political activists. Their main function was to discredit and disrupt. Various means to this end are analyzed below.

2. Other forms of deception: The FBI and police also waged psychological warfare from the outside--through bogus publications, forged correspondence, anonymous letters and telephone calls, and similar forms of deceit.

3. Harassment, intimidation and violence: Eviction, job loss, break-ins, vandalism, grand jury subpoenas, false arrests, frame- ups, and physical violence were threatened, instigated or directly employed, in an effort to frighten activists and disrupt their movements. Government agents either concealed their involvement or fabricated a legal pretext. In the case of the Black and Native American movements, these assaults--including outright political assassinations--were so extensive and vicious that they amounted to terrorism on the part of the government.


The most intense operations were directed against the Black movement, particularly the Black Panther Party. This resulted from FBI and police racism, the Black community's lack of material resources for fighting back, and the tendency of the media--and whites in general--to ignore or tolerate attacks on Black groups. It also reflected government and corporate fear of the Black movement because of its militance, its broad domestic base and international support, and its historic role in galvanizing the entire Sixties' upsurge. Many other activists who organized against US intervention abroad or for racial, gender or class justice at home also came under covert attack. The targets were in no way limited to those who used physical force or took up arms. Martin Luther King, David Dellinger, Phillip Berrigan and other leading pacifists were high on the list, as were projects directly protected by the Bill of Rights, such as alternative newspapers.
The Black Panthers came under attack at a time when their work featured free food and health care and community control of schools and police, and when they carried guns only for deterrent and symbolic purposes. It was the terrorism of the FBI and police that eventually provoked the Panthers to retaliate with the armed actions that later were cited to justify their repression.

Ultimately the FBI disclosed six official counterintelligenceprograms: Communist Party-USA (1956-71); "Groups Seeking Independence for Puerto Rico" (1960-71); Socialist Workers Party (1961-71); "White Hate Groups" (1964-71); "Black Nationalist Hate Groups" (1967-71); and "New Left" (1968- 71).The latter operations hit anti-war, student, and feminist groups. The "Black Nationalist" caption actually encompassed Martin Luther King and most of the civil rights and Black Power movements. The "white hate" program functioned mainly as a cover for covert aid to the KKK and similar right-wing vigilantes, who were given funds and information, so long as they confined their attacks to COINTELPRO targets. FBI documents also reveal covert action against Native American, Chicano, Phillipine, Arab- American, and other activists, apparently without formal Counterintelligence programs.






On the issue of the posts getting out of hand. I have never said the following, you have the wrong guy:


"1) Japanese Mafia created Hurricane Katrina

2) Chinese government created Hurricane Katrina

3) Bush created it to wipe out black population of New Orleans

Come on. There is a difference between drawing logical connected..like the banking families behind the creation of the Federal Reserve System and speculate as to the real cause of the Great Depression that prompted its creation....This is the type of conspiracy theory that even through all the murkiness you can draw some striking conclusions based on the evidence"


In explaining an specific issue with me, you are grouping me in with others who post here in this political section. Now, that's not logical on your part: don't make the assumption I am someone, I am not. I am inclined to believe due to the evidence the levees were breached for certain economic and social intentions, however I am still researching the subject. In no way do I believe the hurricanes were created by man-made forces.


eewwll..........do you really think the US government does not conspire in any way? The evidence is overwhelming that the US government conspires on a regular basis for the purposes of control and maintaining the social order.

 
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katakana said:
eewll,

Do you know what a conspiracy is? here is a working definition for you:


Main Entry: con·spire
Pronunciation: k&n-'spIr
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): con·spired; con·spir·ing
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French conspirer, from Latin conspirare to be in harmony, conspire, from com- + spirare to breathe
transitive senses : PLOT, CONTRIVE
intransitive senses
1 a : to join in a secret agreement to do an unlawful or wrongful act or an act which becomes unlawful as a result of the secret agreement b : SCHEME
2 : to act in harmony toward a common end <circumstances conspired to defeat his efforts>
3 entries found for conspiracy.
To select an entry, click on it.
conspiracyconspiracy of silenceconspiracy theory

Main Entry: con·spir·a·cy
Pronunciation: k&n-'spir-&-sE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -cies
Etymology: Middle English conspiracie, from Latin conspirare
1 : the act of conspiring together
2 a : an agreement among conspirators b : a group of conspirators1)



http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/conspiring



I have never said the Tuskegee Experiment was a conspiracy theory.......the Tuskegee Experiment is more than a theory, it was actually enacted and secretly conspired by the US government ( yes, it was a Conspiracy).


Another sanctioned Conspiracy:



Do you know about the Cointelpro Program created by the FBI? "COINTELPRO" was the FBI's secret program to undermine the popular upsurge which swept the country during the 1960s. Though the name stands for "Counterintelligence Program," the targets were not enemy spies. The FBI set out to eliminate "radical" political opposition inside the US. When traditional modes of repression (exposure, blatant harassment, and prosecution for political crimes) failed to counter the growing insurgency, and even helped to fuel it, the Bureau took the law into its own hands and secretly used fraud and force to sabotage constitutionally- protected political activity. Its methods ranged far beyond surveillance, and amounted to a domestic version of the covert action for which the CIA has become infamous throughout the world.


The FBI conspired to "stop the rise of a Black Messiah," these words were actually in FBI documents released by the Freedom of Information Act of 1975. That Cointelpro program is Conspiracy at it's highest level, it's a group of people conspiring to do ill will.



The FBI secretly instructed its field offices to propose schemes to "misdirect, discredit, disrupt and otherwise neutralize "specific individuals and groups. Close coordination with local police and prosecutors was encouraged. Final authority rested with top FBI officials in Washington, who demanded assurance that "there is no possibility of embarrassment to the Bureau." More than 2000 individual actions wereofficially approved. The documents reveal three types of methods:
1. Infiltration: Agents and informers did not merely spy on political activists. Their main function was to discredit and disrupt. Various means to this end are analyzed below.

2. Other forms of deception: The FBI and police also waged psychological warfare from the outside--through bogus publications, forged correspondence, anonymous letters and telephone calls, and similar forms of deceit.

3. Harassment, intimidation and violence: Eviction, job loss, break-ins, vandalism, grand jury subpoenas, false arrests, frame- ups, and physical violence were threatened, instigated or directly employed, in an effort to frighten activists and disrupt their movements. Government agents either concealed their involvement or fabricated a legal pretext. In the case of the Black and Native American movements, these assaults--including outright political assassinations--were so extensive and vicious that they amounted to terrorism on the part of the government.


The most intense operations were directed against the Black movement, particularly the Black Panther Party. This resulted from FBI and police racism, the Black community's lack of material resources for fighting back, and the tendency of the media--and whites in general--to ignore or tolerate attacks on Black groups. It also reflected government and corporate fear of the Black movement because of its militance, its broad domestic base and international support, and its historic role in galvanizing the entire Sixties' upsurge. Many other activists who organized against US intervention abroad or for racial, gender or class justice at home also came under covert attack. The targets were in no way limited to those who used physical force or took up arms. Martin Luther King, David Dellinger, Phillip Berrigan and other leading pacifists were high on the list, as were projects directly protected by the Bill of Rights, such as alternative newspapers.
The Black Panthers came under attack at a time when their work featured free food and health care and community control of schools and police, and when they carried guns only for deterrent and symbolic purposes. It was the terrorism of the FBI and police that eventually provoked the Panthers to retaliate with the armed actions that later were cited to justify their repression.

Ultimately the FBI disclosed six official counterintelligenceprograms: Communist Party-USA (1956-71); "Groups Seeking Independence for Puerto Rico" (1960-71); Socialist Workers Party (1961-71); "White Hate Groups" (1964-71); "Black Nationalist Hate Groups" (1967-71); and "New Left" (1968- 71).The latter operations hit anti-war, student, and feminist groups. The "Black Nationalist" caption actually encompassed Martin Luther King and most of the civil rights and Black Power movements. The "white hate" program functioned mainly as a cover for covert aid to the KKK and similar right-wing vigilantes, who were given funds and information, so long as they confined their attacks to COINTELPRO targets. FBI documents also reveal covert action against Native American, Chicano, Phillipine, Arab- American, and other activists, apparently without formal Counterintelligence programs.






On the issue of the posts getting out of hand. I have never said the following, you have the wrong guy:


"1) Japanese Mafia created Hurricane Katrina

2) Chinese government created Hurricane Katrina

3) Bush created it to wipe out black population of New Orleans

Come on. There is a difference between drawing logical connected..like the banking families behind the creation of the Federal Reserve System and speculate as to the real cause of the Great Depression that prompted its creation....This is the type of conspiracy theory that even through all the murkiness you can draw some striking conclusions based on the evidence"


In explaining an specific issue with me, you are grouping me in with others who post here in this political section. Now, that's not logical on your part: don't make the assumption I am someone, I am not. I am inclined to believe due to the evidence the levees were breached for certain economic and social intentions, however I am still researching the subject. In no way do I believe the hurricanes were created by man-made forces.


eewwll..........do you really think the US government does not conspire in any way? The evidence is overwhelming that the US government conspires on a regular basis for the purposes of control and maintaining the social order.



Katakana,

Your replies are continual uses of a "smokescreen". The examples used don't equate with your premise. The basic action" the guise of a hurricane" is beyond the avenue of conspiracy theory. By your very defination it can't be contrived. I know what conspiracy "theory" is and it's often gets very illogical. The other examples on this board have been ridiculous. However, for you to group this Hurrican situation with conspiracy theory linked with the deaths of black leaders like MLK or political leaders like JFK is ill advised and misplaced. You are grouping well thought out plans of manipulate that were plotted for years with an unexpected natural disaster that occured within several days time. I already stated a legimate example of conspiracy theory and can added several others that have legitimate evidence to support...so again..your smokescreen of "eewwwl, do you think that government doesn't contrive to manipulate" is a smokescreen argument. I already know that it does. My point is that your example lacks any evidence.

Again, you are going and listing all types of theories that don't support YOUR claim. I already know about the mentioned one. I can probably go right off the top of my head and name more than you can list with doing searches..and not just with the U.S. government. You do know that actions of this nature of "mutually exclusive". Again, understand the difference between plausibility and possibility.

You need to provide evidence to support YOUR CLAIM. Not go back in the past to show that conspiracies have occured. Your attempt to convince me of your argument is the equivalent of saying that we have landed a man on Pluto...and then proceeding to list that we discovered antarctica, put satellites in space and put a man on the moon(know about the conspiracy theory too)....without providing any evidence for your specific claim of a man on pluto. Past evidence of theories doesn't help you at all. Provide specific evidence for your claim as opposed to citing hearsay.

Furthmore, the Tuskegee Experiment ceases to operate in the realm of conspiracy theory. It is the main stream accepted course of events that occured. The Tuskegee Experiment is mainstream...is founded, evil but rational, etc. There is a difference between WAS and IS. A butterfly is just that, a butterfly, it ceases to be a catepillar though it was one in the past. The see a butterfly and label it a catepilliar is false. This is one of the major axioms of philosophy. The law of identity...that A is A. So did you really take the time to think about all the info before you posted it. Because, literally, it supports my claim not yours. And it is very logical to group you with the other posters because you share the common flaw of making a very provocative claim WITHOUT providing any substantial evidence to support your claim except hearsay. That is my point.


"Colloquially, a "conspiracy theory" is any non-mainstream theory about current or historical events, often with the connotation that the theory is unfounded, outlandish, irrational or in some way unworthy of serious consideration"

And you do know that their is an implicit difference between posting a definite for a base term like "conspire" or "conspiracy" instead of posting an explicit definition of "conspiracy theory"...which has its own set of implications, theories, and realm of connotation.

According to what you posted...a basketball teams commits a conspricy because it " commits an act of agreement between 2 or more people..it conspires".

Again, this is another flaw..a flaw of generalization. Let's be specific and explicit.

Provide the evidence to support your claim. Be very specific. I don't want to post past cases of conspiracy theory as if it supports your case.

Post specifically,

1.Facts, evidence, analysis, that would logically lead an invididual to conclude that breach in N.O. was planned and conspired and done for the reason of eliminated black leadership.

Don't think that by going against the grain you have doing something smart. Copernicus and Darwin went against the grain but provides facts and used science to prove their thoughts or came to a conclusion after experimentation. Icke often goes against the grain, and because you are so versed in conspiracy theory you know who that his...and he provides no facts to support his plans. Conspiracy theory by its very natures often enters into the dilussional. Don't fall victim to counter theory just because it's counter. Alot of times, if people actually knew anything about what they were talking about alot of these conspiracy theories wouldn't be spouted.

My question for you is can you do your own thinking..draw some conclusions on your own except for copying and pasting long articles.
 
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Katakana said:
Among the most telling anomalies pointing to something terribly afoot is the gun battle, killing 5, that occurred at the breeched levy between the New Orleans Police Department and, what have now been identified as US military agents. An Associated Press report, which has now disappeared, stated that at least five USA Defense Department personnel where shot dead by New Orleans police officers in the proximity of the breeched levy. A spokesman for the Army Corps of Engineers said later that those killed were "federal contractors" on their way to "repair" a canal. The "contractors" were on their way to launch barges into Lake Pontchartrain, in an operation to "fix" the 17th Street Canal, according to the Army Corps of Engineers spokesman. Deputy Police Chief W.J. Riley of New Orleans later reported that his policemen had shot at eight suspicious people near the breeched levy, killing five or six.

Who were these "military agents" that were killed by the police near the 17th Street Canal breeched levy and what were they doing there? Why did the New Orleans police find it necessary to shoot and kill 5 or 6 of them? No one is saying anything and it appears that the news story has now been swept under the rug. Were these US Department of Defense personnel a Special Forces group or Navy Seals with top secret orders to sabotaged the levy? There are verifiable reports that at least 100 New Orleans police officers have disappeared from the face of the earth and that two have committed suicide. Could these be policemen that died defending the levy against sabotage by "federal contractors"?
The original AP article has not disappeared, it, along with a corresponding original article by MSNBC are on this board at: http://64.255.174.200/board/showthread.php?t=57892

There are several incongruities in the article, but the quote above is interesting, especially since the author notes that the occurrences there mentioned are "Among the most telling anomalies ..."

1. The article describes those involved in the shooting on the bridge near the levee as "Military Agents". The actual articles described them as "Federal Contractors" -- that is, personnel/companies contracted by the federal government -- because the levees are under the auspices of the Corps of Engineers, a federal agency. Of course, Federal Contractors sounds suspicious enough for the conspiracy inclined, but the article takes a quantum leap to call them "Military Agents" which apparently sounds even more vile for those needing a sinister boost.

2. "Were these US Department of Defense personnel a Special Forces group or Navy Seals with top secret orders to sabotaged the levy? Please be reminded that the shootiing incident took place on SEPTEMBER 4, 2005. The levee had broken four days earlier on AUGUST 30, 2005 and by August 31, 2005, NOLA was inuandate with flood water.
story.new.orleans.3.ap.jpg

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/08/30/katrina.neworleans/index.html

So, on September 4, 2005 with N.O. and surrounding area under water, what was there to sabotage ??? The levee had given way 5 days before (whether by nature or man). Maybe those "Military Agents" were there to cause "New Breaks" or "Sabotage the Repairs" ??? Even if that were so (and there is abolutely NO evidence to suggest it), didn't the near complete flooding of N.O. from the initial levee breaks do all the damage necessary for the so called "Great Land Grab" ???

3. While there are reports of a large defection in the N.O.P.D., isn't it strange that the N.O.P.D. has never suggested they were lost in a gun battle with saboteurs ??? Of course, the Black mayor and Black police chief could be complicit in the Great Land Grab. Hell, most of Black America could be just as involved. In fact, all comments to the contrary in this thread are part of a grand coverup.

QueEx
 
<font size="4">But, hold up. Maybe those Black Ops "Military Agents" are still in the area and the first flooding of the 9th Ward was just not enough to utterly ruin the poor Black neighborhoods to complete the Great Land Grab.</font size>

.

[frame]http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/23/nola.levees/index.html[/frame]
 
katakana said:
LSU storm expert rejects levee failure explanation

By MIKE DUNNE
mdunne@theadvocate.com
Advocate staff writer


Advocate staff photo by RICHARD ALAN HANNON
The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers uses steel pilings Wednesday to close off the 17th Street Canal to protect it from any storm surge caused by Hurricane Rita. Floodwalls along the canal broke during Hurricane Katrina, allowing water to pour into New Orleans.
An LSU hurricane expert said floodwalls on the 17th Street and London Avenue canals in New Orleans weren't "overtopped" by Hurricane Katrina's storm surge, meaning the structures failed for other reasons.
Paul Kemp, director of the Natural Systems Modeling Group at LSU's Center for Coastal, Energy, and Environmental Resources, said researchers studying watermarks and other evidence to sharpen their future predictions saw no evidence that walls along the two canals had been overtopped. Breaches along those canals accounted for much of the flooding in New Orleans.

The findings of the LSU center, which predicts hurricane storm surges for emergency officials, clashes with the explanation that has been given by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers.

The corps has said the floodwalls collapsed after water flowed over them, eroding the back-side levees inside which the floodwalls were erected. Once that support was eroded, the floodwalls burst, sending water pouring into the Lakeview area and all the way to downtown, the corps surmised.

But Kemp said his group's models are designed to predict levee overtopping. The predictions called for 11- to 12-foot surges in the canals, he said. Overtopping would have required about 14 feet, he said.

Observations on the ground after the storm support those predictions, he said.

"I could not find evidence of overtopping inside the canals," Kemp said.

Water cascading over the tops of the floodwalls would have eroded trenches in the levees in which the walls were built, he said. That doesn't appear to have happened, he said.

"If they are not overtopped, it means they failed at some lower elevation" of water, Kemp said.

Corps spokesman Mitch Frazier said Wednesday that the agency is focused on pumping the water out of New Orleans and preparing for problems that could spin off Hurricane Rita as it crosses the Gulf of Mexico.

The corps' headquarters will conduct an investigation into why the floodwalls broke and other issues associated with Katrina's flooding, Frazier said. Knowing what went wrong will help the agency design a solution to keep flood waters out of New Orleans during hurricanes, he said.

As of Wednesday, 90 percent of New Orleans had been pumped dry, well ahead of original projections, Frazier said.

Kemp said his researchers did see evidence of overtopping along the Industrial Canal. Breaches in the levee along that canal helped flood the 9th Ward and parts of St. Bernard Parish.

Kemp's computer models show a combination of the intersection of two shipping channels and the levee system conspired to drive water high enough to overwhelm flood protection along the Industrial Canal.

One of those shipping channels is the Mississippi River Gulf Outlet, a deep-draft channel cutting through St. Bernard Parish.

The other is the Gulf Intracoastal Water Way, which barges use to avoid the open water of the Gulf of Mexico. It cuts through marshlands between Lake Pontchartrain and Lake Borgne.

"The model shows that's where the largest surges in the Louisiana system built up," Kemp said.

Another large surge was around the mouth of the Mississippi at Buras, he said.

The shape of the levees works with the shipping channels to funnel water into the Industrial Canal, where it has no place to go but up, he said.

A surge coming into Lake Pontchartrain would have more space to spread out, Kemp said.

While the Mississippi River Gulf Outlet provided an easy channel for storm surge, the flooding in the St. Bernard area was almost tsunami-like, covering the whole parish, he said.

"There was a lot of momentum in the wave," Kemp said.

A pressing question is where Hurricane Rita's storm surge will go, he said. Even a small one of 3 feet could threaten the battered and weakened levee system in New Orleans, Kemp said.

On Wednesday, the corps was shoring up that system by driving sheet pilings into the mouths of the 17th Street and the London Avenue canals where they empty into Lake Pontchartrain.

The canals will remain closed until the threat of severe weather passes. More than 800 filled sandbags are on hand, and an additional 2,500 have been ordered.
How about clicking on the video in the CNN article above: LSU scientists: New Orleans levees were faulty and failed for a more complete explanation of LSU's findings. It probably won't support the "Great Land Grab" conspiracy theory, but it might help explain what actually happened.

QueEx
 
mrjamaica said:
lets open our eyes before its too late :angry:
<font size="3">
And, make sure we open our minds and use our brains at the same time. Otherwise, we may miss the Real Conspiracy -- having become too accustomed to calls that the sky is falling when plainly it wasn't.

QueEx
 
Seriously, there doesn't need to be a conspiracy for this land grab to occur.

As it is, people will effectively be able to snatch up property that people don't come back to claim, or sell at low prices because they no longer have any property there, or people who default to the bank because they have no job, and no insurance money to pay for the house.

What's going to happen is rapid gentrification, because people that moved away, if they find it easier to get on their feet where they are now, will likely stay. A lot of people died, and a lot of people have nothing to return to. Everything will have to be rebuilt, and thus more expensive to live in, which will financially drive people out, and with all new buildings, I'm sure a bunch of luxury condos, there will be an influx of affluent people who want to live in N.O. now that it's new and clean.

Same thing that would happen in any city if all of a sudden, the broke neighborhood was demolished. This is probably why the Mayor wants people to return as quickly as possible, the longer they stay away, the less likely they will return.
 
QueEx said:
How about clicking on the video in the CNN article above: LSU scientists: New Orleans levees were faulty and failed for a more complete explanation of LSU's findings. It probably won't support the "Great Land Grab" conspiracy theory, but it might help explain what actually happened.

QueEx


Dammit, you beat me to it. I want to add that when the LSU prof. did not suggest that sabotage was even considered. Just like I said, conspiricy theorists use part of a truth to justify a wild proposition.

Also, COINTELPRO was exposed while still operational.
 
Eewwll,



Why should I even have to answer your wayward statements and questions dotted with misspellings, haplessly pretending to be an expert on logic? You may have taken one course on logic at a community college, now you are the René Descartes or even the Jean-Paul Sartre of BGOL. I don’t think so. You accuse me of unable to form an argument, yet you cannot form a sentence and have a wealth of run-on and fragmented sentences. Does this make sense? You position yourself as all-knowing when you are grammatically challenged. No, it does not make sense.

Let’s go back to the very beginning, BGOL poster Orange Roughly asked few questions to the political board:


orange roughy said:
a friend of mine told me that he heard Dick Gregory on Joe Madison's radio broadcast last weekend and that there was a discussion about a federal black ops group down there that used the hurricane as a cover to try to assassinate some of the NO police and officials. Supposedly these black ops guys were nto successful and wer found handing upside down from a bridge as evidence.

Did anybody hear the interview, or better yet, have it or a transcript? Or know anymore about this?

I simply posted the article he was possibly interested in coupled with the linkage to Dick Gregory’s web site so Orange Roughy could gather more information. I highlighted in red the parts Orange Roughy had specifically asked about and that was the end of my post. Then like a person butting into a conversation, we have you chiming in: “LOL..I'm never amazed by the conspiracy theories posted here.” Instead of exploring the article and opening your mind to other possibilities concerning the breaching of the levee in New Orleans, you immediately discount the article. At this point I did not say anything about my point of view. Instead, I posted articles in response to various “LOL”statements with the moniker “LEAVE YOUR CRITICAL THINKING AT THE DOOR THEN........LAUGH NOW.............CRY LATER.” My point was to tell everyone lets explore this issue by using our critical thinking skills instead of instantly doubting the article. Also, if we do not use our critical thinking skills, we as black people might find ourselves in a position the Jewish people in Germany were in the 1930’s and 40’s, being ostracized and scapegoated mercilessly with the ultimate conclusion being the gas ovens.



Like Malcolm X said in the partial speech I posted “when you begin thinking for yourself, you frighten them.” Who is the “them” Malcolm X is talking about? Them is the corporate controlling power elites who control the mainstream media that adheres to the official story closely, wedded to the political administration in power. By not exploring other avenues for information, the same information from the same sources are parroted. Just relying on the mainstream media does not get the heart of the truth, other sources must be mined to receive a fuller understanding of an idea or event. Obviously, Eewwll, you rely on mainstream media for all of your sources for news or you would not make the following statement:

eewwll said:
the Tuskegee Experiment ceases to operate in the realm of conspiracy theory. It is the main stream accepted course of events that occurred. The Tuskegee Experiment is mainstream...is founded, evil but rational, etc

I can surmise when the mainstream media reports on a subject, Eewwl, you instantly believe their point of view, their story, their logic without questioning it for yourself. Obviously you do, because if it is the “main stream accepted” course of events it is “founded.” On top of that you say “The Tuskegee Experiment is mainstream...is founded, evil but rational, etc.” This is most disturbing statement of your diatribe. In a book review of Unmasking Administrative Evil by Guy B. Adams and Danny L. Balfour, the reviewer, Charles Perrow states:

“The authors mention the Tuskegee experiments on Afro-American prisoners, internment of Japanese Americans in World War II and other cases to remind us that ‘American public administration also possesses a well-developed capacity for administrative evil’ (xxviii). But most of these are easily rationalized in terms of some ‘higher good’ (the Tuskegee case could have been so rationalized initially, but not later on; the cruel experiments continued even after a cure for syphilis had been found).”1

The Tuskegee Experiment started in 1932 in Macon County, Alabama with 400 African-American men and injected them with syphilis:

“The only medication the men received was aspirin. Spinal tabs (lumbar punctures) were done on the men to test their fluids in their spinal cord area. This is a very painful procedure. Men were told that this was part of the treatment. By 1943, penicillin was widely used to treat syphilis, except among the men in the Tuskegee study.”

Is this your idea of rationality? Continuing the experiment until 1972, 29 years after a cure was found? If the mainstream press told you the sky was pink with purple polka dots would you believe them too? Think for yourself, Eewll. I know you did not believe the experiment was rational even after a cure was found, I hope not. Eewwll, know what you are talking about before you spew your verbose and vile opinions. Eewll, your comments have a tone of arrogance like this one:

“Again, you are going and listing all types of theories that don't support YOUR claim. I already know about the mentioned one. I can probably go right off the top of my head and name more than you can list with doing searches..and not just with the U.S. government.”

I did not state one theory about the research I’ve done. Is the Malcolm X excerpt from a speech a theory? Is an article concerning the Tuskegee Experiment a theory? Is the CointelPro information a theory? Eewwll, do you know what a theory is? It’s apparent you are overreaching in areas you did not fully understand in trying to besmirch me. What claims did I make? This is the only thing I have said:

“I am inclined to believe due to the evidence the levees were breached for certain economic and social intentions, however I am still researching the subject.”

Personally, I did say I am still researching the subject. I’ve not come to any firm conclusions, I am still on the path of getting to truth of the matter. As quiet as it’s kept Eewwll, I don’t have to prove anything to you and I was not trying to prove anything to you in this thread. Again, I just posted an article for Orange Roughy. Then I added the other article pieces and excerpts to just say: OPEN YOUR CLOSED MIND.

In conclusion, your writing speaks for itself, the words in bold are some of your misspellings:


1 By your very defination it can't be contrived.
2 However, for you to group this Hurrican situation
3 However, for you to group this Hurrican situation
4 natural disaster that occured within several days time.
5 I already stated a legimate example of conspiracy theory
6 we discovered antarctica, put satellites in space (capitalize)
7 A butterfly is just that, a butterfly, it ceases to be a caterpillar
8 a basketball teams commits a conspricy because it
9 Facts, evidence, analysis, that would logically lead an invididual
to conclude
10 by its very natures often enters into the dilussional
11 Alot of times, if people actually knew anything about
what they were talking about alot of these conspiracy theories
wouldn't be spouted.
12Furthmore, the Tuskegee Experiment ceases to operate


I don’t have time to list your grammatical mistakes, there are too many to list, however if anyone insists I do I will begrudgingly. I don’t get paid to be Eewwll’s english teacher. Eewwll, your writing is anemic, improve your writing and then respond to me.
 
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TO KATAKANA: who continues to avoid providing evidence, continues to blow smoke, and won't admit to the very obvious flaws in his logic.

Are you still going to avoid giving any evidence? I'm writing code for software programs while I'm checking on stuff here. I don't have the time to go back and do spell checks. This isn't going to be published..this isn't journalism. The points are clear..despite any spelling errors. Don't use that as an excuse not to provide any evidence. That was quite a WEAK response Katakana. Again..your use of a smokescreen to cloud the fact that you have no evidence to support your claim. By the way, I went to one of the best schools in the country..definately not a community college but I've never misconstrued having a college degree as equating with intelligence. Furthermore, all the things I have learned of importance have been self taught anyway. Don't profess to be a no it all. However, it is clear to me with someone is blowing smoke and making bullshit assertions. You clearly qualify as making those types of claims. Now if you want to nit pick on spelling as opposed to providing some evidence that is fine. But be careful of trying to be a smart ass if you aren't qualified. I didn't take the time to type you some dissertation because your theories are so unfounded that your fallacies should be evident to anyone with a discerning eye. And you have the nerve to say I was being arrogant, you yet were the one citing definitions yet seem to not be able to deduce the meanings..as if you are semantically challenged. I'm not the one attemping to pass subjectivity as objectivity. I think you need to use the dictionary much more than I do at this point. However, if we want to do some challenging of wits..i would be more than willing to take a little bit more time to do a spell check, format check, and really get into the heart of how uninformed a mentality like your is...who starts his post with "OPEN YOUR EYES" and then goes to list a bunch of bullshit that contradicts his initial assertion and then goes on to prove that not only is he blind and is in complete opposition to his slogan(open your eyes)..that he is suffering from a mild form of dimentia if he thinks that illogical assertions, baseless opinions, and unfounded opinions can be passed as facts in an objective world.

Don't pretend. It's obvious to people who aren't. That is like the people on here who are making wild assertions about "Weather Control" yet with every statement illustrate that they are scientifically bankrupt...lacking any knowledge of earth science and physics...and are logically challenged. They lack of the basic understanding of the founding principles of the very subjects in which they are speaking

For you. Instead of making a claim..Just provide the proof. If you provide the proof...the claim speaks for itself and will be your last sentence..as opposed to starting off with some loud statement and the proceeding to follow up with flawed jibberish.

Now being that we have spelling and grammatics out of the way.

Please proceed to providing your facts or are you going to come up with another reason to dodge.


You wrote:

"As quiet as it’s kept Eewwll, I don’t have to prove anything to you and I was not trying to prove anything to you in this thread"

You make strong assertions and provided weak proof that was irrelevant and exclusive from the topic at hand. I'm not asking for you to prove anything to me. I'm asking you to adequately support your claims. This is repeatedy a problem. People make claims without the proof..or their data set is corrupt or obviously biased..or developing their argument using strawmen tactics...but however are quick to tell the rest of us to "open our eyes or open our minds". Like QueEx said..make sure you are using your mind at the same time and analyzing the data.

See, here is how you contradict yourself as opposed to admitting the flaws..in your previous response you wrote:

In your last reply you wrote: I did make any claims; What claims did I make??

KATAKANA WROTE:

Some of your claims:


....Yes ...we are going to be living in a Police State...that is next...

This was the subject of your supporting article:

The Great New Orleans Land Grab

The 17th Street Canal levy was breeched on purpose


Then you highlighted this from your articles:

I tell you -- they'll be building
gas chambers and gas ovens pretty soon
I'm telling you again -- they'll be building
those gas ovens. And before you wake up, you'll be in one of them,
just like the Jews ended up in gas ovens over there in Germany.

You are in a society that is just as capable of building gas ovens
for Black people as Hitler's society was.


Then you posted some weak articles and then the Tuskegee Experiment as if anything that happened with that experiment could provide evidence of Levee tampering. They can't be objectively linked.



Now are you beginning to see that you DID MAKE CLAIMS and you went about supporting them in a foulish manner.?



Obviously, Eewwll, you rely on mainstream media for all of your sources for news or you would not make the following statement:

Quote:
Originally Posted by eewwll
the Tuskegee Experiment ceases to operate in the realm of conspiracy theory. It is the main stream accepted course of events that occurred. The Tuskegee Experiment is mainstream...is founded, evil but rational, etc

But see again, you are displaying two qualities over and over again. One..is attempting to pass subjectivity as objectivity..as if you are sitting on my shoulders watching what I read I've mentioned this before in others threads that I speak Arabic and Portuguese(read my brazil 101 thread) proficiently. Sir, I read non english written publications as well. If you think I'm making the language claim specifically for you..do a search on old threads) So I can "read media sources" well beyond what you can probably imagine and not only be out of the "mainstream" but out of geo/english American culture constraints. Can you say the same? Again Katakana, you are making a claim with no means of supporting. That will usually lead to you being wrong.I don't claim to know what the fuck you're reading..but based on what you put in this thread...by that fact, I do know whatever you are reading is suspect when it comes to journalistic integrity as was shown repeatedy by multiple posters explicitly.

Two..the inability to deduce. "Rational" being that making the Tuskegee claim is based on established science. The claim within itself is in a minimal form possible. You missed the context because we were referring to the Weather Manipulation claim. Rational.based on reason..it is reasonable that the Tuskegee experiment could exist even without the evidence. This goes back to my "plausible vs. possible" example. However, a claim of Weather manipulation(Hurricane Creation) is irrational because any reasonable person who understands the science behind it would know that the claim is scientifically absurd. So that what was meant by Evil, yet rational. Maybe that was over your head? Thought it was very simple to understand.




By the way..i'm not "pretending to be an expert in logic". I didn't even attempt to go as deeply as I could because this type of discussion didn't call for it. FYI..I'm writing a program that extracts relevant knowledge out of unstructured data using semantic frameworks. All I deal with on a daily basis is logic and algorithms. I'm not an expert, but I'm definately quite versed to speak on logic. And it's very obvious to me when something is lacking in logic. I can notice a illogical inference in advanced neural systems so I can definately see it in an argument like this Katakana. If I was arrogant I would have said that in the first place.

Not trying to shoot you down. I come to this forum because I learn something new with all the articles that are posted. However, there is a difference between just posting articles for unbaised purposes or making some sound judgements like posters often do here...and then Making wild assertions and then using biased, tainted info to support an already shaky claim.





katakana said:
Eewwll,



Why should I even have to answer your wayward statements and questions dotted with misspellings, haplessly pretending to be an expert on logic? You may have taken one course on logic at a community college, now you are the René Descartes or even the Jean-Paul Sartre of BGOL. I don’t think so. You accuse me of unable to form an argument, yet you cannot form a sentence and have a wealth of run-on and fragmented sentences. Does this make sense? You position yourself as all-knowing when you are grammatically challenged. No, it does not make sense.

Let’s go back to the very beginning, BGOL poster Orange Roughly asked few questions to the political board:




I simply posted the article he was possibly interested in coupled with the linkage to Dick Gregory’s web site so Orange Roughy could gather more information. I highlighted in red the parts Orange Roughy had specifically asked about and that was the end of my post. Then like a person butting into a conversation, we have you chiming in: “LOL..I'm never amazed by the conspiracy theories posted here.” Instead of exploring the article and opening your mind to other possibilities concerning the breaching of the levee in New Orleans, you immediately discount the article. At this point I did not say anything about my point of view. Instead, I posted articles in response to various “LOL”statements with the moniker “LEAVE YOUR CRITICAL THINKING AT THE DOOR THEN........LAUGH NOW.............CRY LATER.” My point was to tell everyone lets explore this issue by using our critical thinking skills instead of instantly doubting the article. Also, if we do not use our critical thinking skills, we as black people might find ourselves in a position the Jewish people in Germany were in the 1930’s and 40’s, being ostracized and scapegoated mercilessly with the ultimate conclusion being the gas ovens.



Like Malcolm X said in the partial speech I posted “when you begin thinking for yourself, you frighten them.” Who is the “them” Malcolm X is talking about? Them is the corporate controlling power elites who control the mainstream media that adheres to the official story closely, wedded to the political administration in power. By not exploring other avenues for information, the same information from the same sources are parroted. Just relying on the mainstream media does not get the heart of the truth, other sources must be mined to receive a fuller understanding of an idea or event. Obviously, Eewwll, you rely on mainstream media for all of your sources for news or you would not make the following statement:



I can surmise when the mainstream media reports on a subject, Eewwl, you instantly believe their point of view, their story, their logic without questioning it for yourself. Obviously you do, because if it is the “main stream accepted” course of events it is “founded.” On top of that you say “The Tuskegee Experiment is mainstream...is founded, evil but rational, etc.” This is most disturbing statement of your diatribe. In a book review of Unmasking Administrative Evil by Guy B. Adams and Danny L. Balfour, the reviewer, Charles Perrow states:

“The authors mention the Tuskegee experiments on Afro-American prisoners, internment of Japanese Americans in World War II and other cases to remind us that ‘American public administration also possesses a well-developed capacity for administrative evil’ (xxviii). But most of these are easily rationalized in terms of some ‘higher good’ (the Tuskegee case could have been so rationalized initially, but not later on; the cruel experiments continued even after a cure for syphilis had been found).”1

The Tuskegee Experiment started in 1932 in Macon County, Alabama with 400 African-American men and injected them with syphilis:

“The only medication the men received was aspirin. Spinal tabs (lumbar punctures) were done on the men to test their fluids in their spinal cord area. This is a very painful procedure. Men were told that this was part of the treatment. By 1943, penic
illin was widely used to treat syphilis, except among the men in the Tuskegee study.”

Is this your idea of rationality? Continuing the experiment until 1972, 29 years after a cure was found? If the mainstream press told you the sky was pink with purple polka dots would you believe them too? Think for yourself, Eewll. I know you did not believe the experiment was rational even after a cure was found, I hope not. Eewwll, know what you are talking about before you spew your verbose and vile opinions. Eewll, your comments have a tone of arrogance like this one:

“Again, you are going and listing all types of theories that don't support YOUR claim. I already know about the mentioned one. I can probably go right off the top of my head and name more than you can list with doing searches..and not just with the U.S. government.”

I did not state one theory about the research I’ve done. Is the Malcolm X excerpt from a speech a theory? Is an article concerning the Tuskegee Experiment a theory? Is the CointelPro information a theory? Eewwll, do you know what a theory is? It’s apparent you are overreaching in areas you did not fully understand in trying to besmirch me. What claims did I make? This is the only thing I have said:

“I am inclined to believe due to the evidence the levees were breached for certain economic and social intentions, however I am still researching the subject.”

Personally, I did say I am still researching the subject. I’ve not come to any firm conclusions, I am still on the path of getting to truth of the matter. As quiet as it’s kept Eewwll, I don’t have to prove anything to you and I was not trying to prove anything to you in this thread. Again, I just posted an article for Orange Roughy. Then I added the other article pieces and excerpts to just say: OPEN YOUR CLOSED MIND.

In conclusion, your writing speaks for itself, the words in bold are some of your misspellings:


1 By your very defination it can't be contrived.
2 However, for you to group this Hurrican situation
3 However, for you to group this Hurrican situation
4 natural disaster that occured within several days time.
5 I already stated a legimate example of conspiracy theory
6 we discovered antarctica, put satellites in space (capitalize)
7 A butterfly is just that, a butterfly, it ceases to be a caterpillar
8 a basketball teams commits a conspricy because it
9 Facts, evidence, analysis, that would logically lead an invididual
to conclude
10 by its very natures often enters into the dilussional
11 Alot of times, if people actually knew anything about
what they were talking about alot of these conspiracy theories
wouldn't be spouted.
12Furthmore, the Tuskegee Experiment ceases to operate


I don’t have time to list your grammatical mistakes, there are too many to list, however if anyone insists I do I will begrudgingly. I don’t get paid to be Eewwll’s english teacher. Eewwll, your writing is anemic, improve your writing and then respond to me.[/
QUOTE]
 
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<font size="5"><center>Floodwall Overtopping May Not Be to Blame</font size>
<font size="4">Focus Now on New Orleans's Shifting Soil</font size></center>

By Peter Whoriskey and Joby Warrick
Washington Post Staff Writers
Saturday, October 8, 2005; Page A11

NEW ORLEANS, Oct. 7 -- The system of levees and concrete walls that was supposed to protect the New Orleans area from flooding was breached in dozens of places, investigators said Friday, a finding that indicates that the failures were far more widespread than originally thought.

Engineers probing the failures said they are increasingly convinced that floodwaters did not overtop two key floodwalls that collapsed on Aug. 29, swamping large portions of the city. Instead, evidence suggests that the floodwalls were weakened by the shifting soil beneath the structures, according to a team of experts from the American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE) and the National Science Foundation (NSF).

In the early days after the storm, accounts offered by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers and others focused attention on a few of the most prominent breaches. But the team of engineers working with the Corps said the places where water broke through were much more numerous.

"This place was ripped to shreds. I was amazed," said Peter Nicholson, a University of Hawaii professor of civil engineering who is part of the investigating team. "There were dozens and dozens of breaches."

Engineers from ASCE and an NSF-funded group at the University of California at Berkeley have been poking through the wreckage of the levees to determine what went wrong.

Many miles of earthen berms and concrete walls are supposed to prevent the low-lying city from being inundated by the Mississippi River, Lake Pontchartrain and other nearby waters. The engineers said Friday that the system failed in a number of ways.

At two key breaches where huge volumes of water inundated the city -- at the 17th Street Canal and the London Avenue Canal -- the quality of the soil supporting the flood walls appears to have been a problem.

At the 17th Street Canal, they said, a section of the levee embankment moved back 35 feet. There is evidence of a similar "soil mass movement" at one of two London Avenue sites. The engineers speculate that either the pressure on the walls pushed them back against the soft soil or water seeping beneath the walls softened the soil, weakening the wall's support. "The soil moved," said Paul Mlakar of the Army Corps of Engineers. "The exact mechanism is not known at this time."

The soil in the area, composed of sand, silt, clay and peat is "compressible and not very strong," said Raymond Seed, a professor of civil engineering at UC-Berkeley.

An extensive analysis at the two canal locations has virtually ruled out overtopping as the cause of the failures, the engineers said. Overtopping occurs when rising waters spill over the top of a floodwall. The analysis shows that the water levels in both the London Avenue and 17th Street canals missed the top of the floodwalls by at least two feet, Nicholson said.

Many levees and flood walls did overtop. In some cases, catastrophic failures followed the overtoppings because the rushing floodwaters wore away the ground supporting the walls and the walls fell over.

"Some were simply overwhelmed and largely destroyed," Nicholson said. "However, many miles of levees performed satisfactorily, even many that were overtopped."

Concern about the inferior quality of the soil beneath the floodwalls is not new. In the early 1990s, a New Orleans-based contractor filed a legal claim against the Corps alleging that the soil beneath the floodwall on the 17th Street Canal was poor. A judge dismissed the contractor's complaint in 1996.

The teams investigating the floodwall failures say that a thin band of soft, peatlike soil lay more than 20 feet below the walls at both the 17th Street and London Avenue canals. But because the layer was deep and narrow, the crews that initially built the walls did not discover it, the engineers said.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...5100701878.html?referrer=email&referrer=email
 
<font size="5"><center>Studies Confirm New Orleans Levees' Flaws</font size>
<font size="4">the levee design ensured failure under the type of water
pressure exerted by Katrina's storm surge</font size></center>

Dec 1, 9:23 AM (ET)
Associated Press
By BRETT MARTEL

(AP) Work continues, Wednesday, Nov. 30, 2005, at the 17th Street Canal floodwall that was breached...
Full Image



NEW ORLEANS (AP) - Government engineers performing sonar tests at the site of a major levee failure confirmed that steel reinforcements barely went more than half as deep as they were supposed to, a U.S. Army Corps of Engineers official said Wednesday.

"We've come up with similar results" to those from earlier tests performed by Louisiana State University engineers, said Walter Baumy, the Corps' chief engineer for the New Orleans District.

Baumy said the Corps intends to pull out pieces of the remaining wall along each edge of the breach at the 17th Street Canal to verify the sonar test results. The canal itself is now mostly dry at the breach site, with temporary walls holding back water from each side.

Baumy said the Corps cannot explain the disparity between what its 1993 design documents show was supposed to be there and what they've found.

The documents indicated that the steel reinforcements in the levee, known as sheet piling, went to a depth of 17.5 feet below sea level. Sonar tests indicated the pilings went only to 10 feet below sea level, meaning the flood wall would have been much weaker than intended.

The LSU team is working on a report for the state that will say there were serious, fundamental design and construction flaws at both the 17th Street and London Avenue canals. Both broke during Hurricane Katrina, flooding much of the city.

The team's leader, Ivor van Heerden, said Wednesday that the levee design ensured failure under the type of water pressure exerted by Katrina's storm surge.

The team's computer modeling showed that the designs failed to account for loose, porous soils such as sand and peat that were prone to allowing water to seep from the canal through to the dry side of the levee.

Much deeper steel pilings driven well below the canal bottoms likely would have stopped seepage to the dry side, engineers have said. The bottom tip of the pilings, at 10 feet below sea level, did not reach the canal bottoms.

But LSU computer models showed that even if the pilings had gone to 17.5 feet below sea level at 17th Street as design documents said they should have, they still would have failed.

Engineering studies prior to construction of the flood wall were performed by Eustis Engineering, Modjeski and Masters Inc. and the Corps. Members of the LSU team have expressed shock that all three could have missed what they characterized as fundamental flaws.

Calls to Eustis and Modjeski and Masters were not returned Wednesday. Van Heerden said the federal government bears ultimate responsibility.

http://apnews1.iwon.com/article/20051201/D8E7GEQG0.html
 
You can always count on the government to come up with a
plausible explanation for everything shady....that's their job
and it's much easier to accomplish when you control every
facet of media in the country (including the internet)...

and the ones you don't control, you quash or discredit
 
Not meaning to hijack the post, but speaking of so-called
"conspiracies", I am home today, sick as a dog, with "Flu-like
symptoms" (my own diagnosis), just one week after brotha
Huey Freeman WARNED us about this "Bird Flu" shit and how
sick we would get from Thanksgiving turkey


I get alot of colds, but I NEVER catch the flu...
should I be worried??


bo051127.gif
 
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<font size="5"><center>Army Corps Is Faulted on New Orleans Levees</font size>
<font size="4">Panel Says Studies Foresaw Failure, Urges New Scrutiny</font size></center>

Washington Post
By Joby Warrick and Peter Whoriskey
Washington Post Staff Writers
Saturday, March 25, 2006; Page A06

An organization of civil engineers yesterday questioned the soundness of large portions of New Orleans's levee system, warning that the city's federally designed flood walls were not built to standards stringent enough to protect a large city.

The group faulted the agency responsible for the levees, the Army Corps of Engineers, for adopting safety standards that were "too close to the margin" to protect human life. It also called for an urgent reexamination of the entire levee system, saying there are no assurances that the miles of concrete "I-walls" in New Orleans will hold up against even a moderate hurricane.

The ability of any I-wall in New Orleans to withstand . . . is unknown," said the American Society of Civil Engineers' External Review Panel, which was appointed to oversee the Corps investigation of the levee system's collapse during Hurricane Katrina.

The civil engineers group also rejected the explanation given by the Corps that the system had failed because Katrina had unleashed "unforeseeable" physical forces that weakened the flood walls. In a letter to Lt. Gen. Carl A. Strock, the Corps' commander, the civil engineers cited three previous Corps studies that predicted precisely the chain of events that caused the city's 17th Street Canal flood wall to fail. The breach left much of central and downtown New Orleans underwater.

"It appears that this information never triggered an assessment . . . neither at the time of the design of the 17th Street Canal flood wall, nor following its construction," the letter said.

Corps officials said they had already taken steps to address problems identified in the letter, starting with an effort to replace miles of I-walls with sturdier structures. But agency officials insisted the Corps was not solely to blame for weaknesses in the system.

"We have done the best things we could have done. We live here," spokeswoman Susan J. Jackson said. During four decades of levee-building in New Orleans, Jackson said, the agency frequently found its hands tied because of restrictions imposed by budgets, by Congress or by local governments that often failed to meet financial responsibilities to help build and maintain the levees. Jackson added: "It was a question of who was going to pay, and how much."

The American Society of Civil Engineers panel is one of three independent teams investigating the failure of the New Orleans levees, and until now it has been the most cautious in its public criticisms. The other investigating teams quickly endorsed its findings.

"We agree that every single foot of the I-walls is suspect," said Ivor van Heerden, leader of a Louisiana-appointed team of engineers. "When asked, we have constantly urged anyone returning to New Orleans to exercise caution, because the system now in place could fail in a Category 2 storm. It has already failed during a fast-moving Category 3 storm that missed New Orleans by 30 miles."

Two weeks ago, the Corps proposed a new theory for why the 17th Street Canal flood wall collapsed on Aug. 29, despite never being overtopped by Katrina's floodwaters. Whereas previous investigations had pointed to weak soils beneath the flood wall, new data suggested a combination of factors: First, the force of rising floodwaters inside the canal bent the walls outward, creating a small gap between the walls and their earthen foundation. Then, water surged into the gap, pressing the walls further until they broke through a layer of weak soil piled up against the sides. In effect, the levee was sliced in half along its ridge.

Corps officials initially said they had never known a levee to fail this way, and they suggested that no one could have predicted it. But the civil engineers panel said yesterday that the failure was foreseen by the Corps' own studies, dating to the mid-1980s. It said the Corps' failure to anticipate the problem reflected an "overall pattern of engineering judgment inconsistent with that required for critical structures."

Throughout the design process, the civil engineers said, the Corps consistently failed to make the kinds of conservative judgments necessary when working in an environment where the soils are notoriously unstable and the stakes, as measured in human lives, are high.

"These findings present significant implications for current and future safety offered by levees, flood walls and control structures in New Orleans, and perhaps elsewhere," the letter to Strock said.

The civil engineers panel is due to release a formal report on its findings in two weeks, but its members chose to send the letter to Strock separately, citing the "gravity and potential impact" of their findings.

Whoriskey reported from New Orleans.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/24/AR2006032401819.html
 
vitrifier said:
Seriously, there doesn't need to be a conspiracy for this land grab to occur.

As it is, people will effectively be able to snatch up property that people don't come back to claim, or sell at low prices because they no longer have any property there, or people who default to the bank because they have no job, and no insurance money to pay for the house.

What's going to happen is rapid gentrification, because people that moved away, if they find it easier to get on their feet where they are now, will likely stay. A lot of people died, and a lot of people have nothing to return to. Everything will have to be rebuilt, and thus more expensive to live in, which will financially drive people out, and with all new buildings, I'm sure a bunch of luxury condos, there will be an influx of affluent people who want to live in N.O. now that it's new and clean.

Same thing that would happen in any city if all of a sudden, the broke neighborhood was demolished. This is probably why the Mayor wants people to return as quickly as possible, the longer they stay away, the less likely they will return.


I hear you on all that,
Black ops or not..we need to look at what is actually occuring there now. People and their homes were swept away, and in the undertow there is alot of foot dragging going on to slow the process of rebuilding and providing adequate housing for people to reestablish themselves in the area. New Orleans will never be the same.
 
Jackdarippa said:
Smells like.......A CROCK OF SHIT


Stick to what you know, porn pages and before you "drown" in all that ass you download tell us, where should we post your obituary? :lol: :lol:
 
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[FRAME]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRL2khYEqmQ&search=levee%20breach[/FRAME]
 
Thought@Work said:
Earwitness tells ABC explosives blew Industrial Canal levee
<font size="4">The witness didn't <u>see</u> anything; and doesn't know <u>what</u> he heard. There may have been an explosion; it could have been a fuel tank, natural gas, something colliding with something, could have been a transformer. To some people, however, it was someone blowing a whole in the levee - with or without an iota of proof. :smh:

QueEx
 
:confused:
QueEx said:
<font size="4">The witness didn't <u>see</u> anything; and doesn't know <u>what</u> he heard. There may have been an explosion; it could have been a fuel tank, natural gas, something colliding with something, could have been a transformer. To some people, however, it was someone blowing a whole in the levee - with or without an iota of proof. :smh:

QueEx


Its probably the barge that hit the wall; adrift and with the force of the waves, etcetera :yes:
 
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