****Another reason to hate black so-called conservatives****

Mr. Met

So Amazin
BGOL Investor
Shelby Steele: 'We don't owe anybody anything?' :confused: :smh:

MLK and Malcolm should have stayed in bed.


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Mr. Met . . . and anyone else:

(1) Forget, for a moment, the labels: Conservative, Liberal, Democrat & Republican. Just omit the label of this thread and the labels that are used in the video clip; and

(2) Forget the arguments in the video for or against Democrats and Republicans - and what they did or didn't do years ago. Forget or overlook them/it all. Just move right past the bullshit.

NOW, what, if anything, is wrong with what Murdock, Peterson, Star Parker and O'neal Dozier, etc., said ??? Serious question.

QueEx

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Good post.

I have to disagree that welfare is slavery, alot of people take advantage of the system, willingly...

I live in Cali, nuff said...
 
I really don't understand at all the black conservative agenda to remove welfare. Their claims about the psychological impact on the people who accept assistance are so abstract that they are laughable. Everyone in America wants to be rich. That's the American dream. No one wants to be impoverished no one wants to be on welfare. There is stigmatizm associated with being poor in the black community. There is no pride in being on welfare. So what is the motivation for being on welfare?

To me the idea that anybody wants to be on welfare is insulting to the poor. The idea that welfare causes people to forget their dreams and aspirations and willingly wallow in poverty is utterly ridiculous. Bottom line is welfare is forced on no one. It is not like slavery. You can accept welfare or you cannot. No one is going to beat down your door and make you accept welfare.

Welfare is a red herring. It is the lynchpin of conservative ideology because conservatives are inherently anti-poor. Everything that can be said about welfare can be said about social security yet no one is against social security. Everything that can be said about welfare can be said about medicare and medicaid yet nothing is said. Why? Because these forms of public assitance affect people other then the poor.

Black conservatives fall in the rabbit hole when they accept this conservative agenda without realizing that it has zero to do with the supposed psychological enslavement of the poor lol and everything to do with benefiting the rich.
 
Temujin said:
I really don't understand at all the black conservative agenda to remove welfare. Their claims about the psychological impact on the people who accept assistance are so abstract that they are laughable.

What are those black conservative abstract claims exactly? I've read this comment a time or two but nobody spells out what the abstract is.

To me the idea that anybody wants to be on welfare is insulting to the poor. The idea that welfare causes people to forget their dreams and aspirations and willingly wallow in poverty is utterly ridiculous. Bottom line is welfare is forced on no one. It is not like slavery. You can accept welfare or you cannot. No one is going to beat down your door and make you accept welfare.
It should be insulting but that is a fact. I've known plenty who pimp the system just like that and will tell you they want more of it, like they deserve it. On the slavery question it might be a matter of prospective. What would you call the compliance to the state that says, if you work or make any money while I'm paying your rent, I will remove room and board support, and you comply?
Welfare is a red herring. It is the lynchpin of conservative ideology because conservatives are inherently anti-poor. Everything that can be said about welfare can be said about social security yet no one is against social security. Everything that can be said about welfare can be said about medicare and medicaid yet nothing is said. Why? Because these forms of public assitance affect people other then the poor.

I am against this social security system. Have you looked at that statement they send out that tells you what you QUALIFY for at age 65? How the fuck could that be? They are paying 1.1 percent interest on your money so you are either ill informed or just talking democrat talking points. Not to mention these parties in washington are doing the SAME DAMN THING everybody was upset with Enron about with our social security money. These politicians on both sides of the isle are taking the money out and using it for all kinds of spending programs and nobody is batting an eye about it. That shit is about broke and you all know it. But the moment somebody talks about creating a government system where for those who want something in retirement can get it, a whole lot of pushback on that. Why? Why can't I get 12 percent on my social security?

Black conservatives fall in the rabbit hole when they accept this conservative agenda without realizing that it has zero to do with the supposed psychological enslavement of the poor lol and everything to do with benefiting the rich.

More bullshit. True, people with money and have had it for a while tend to forget about those who are less fortunate. But that's EVERYBODY with money. Rich is rich.

Rich don't give a fuck about party.

That retoric attempts to hide reality that those who truly give a damn about the poor is the middle class. And the poor folk who are satisfied with where they are in life, that they view their lives as a day to day struggle, could give a fuck about all this caring either party tries to lay claim to. They want the very basic shit to get by on. So save the "we are better because"...bullshit. It only makes you and the people listing to you feel good but it means litterly nothing to those that live poor.

All that noise about the bush tax cuts and the 2000 dollars everybody got in the first bush term, I dont recall ANYBODY giving it back. Nor did I hear ONE democrat propose a bill recending a penny that refund. So spare me the retoric about rich democrats giving a fuck about the poor that a rich republican. Neither gives a fuck about anybody without money.


-VG
 
VegasGuy said:
What are those black conservative abstract claims exactly? I've read this comment a time or two but nobody spells out what the abstract is.

The psychological effects of welfare. The tie between receiving welfare and wanting to remain on welfare. The nexus is abstract at best.

It should be insulting but that is a fact. I've known plenty who pimp the system just like that and will tell you they want more of it, like they deserve it. On the slavery question it might be a matter of prospective. What would you call the compliance to the state that says, if you work or make any money while I'm paying your rent, I will remove room and board support, and you comply?

It is not a fact. You assume it is a fact but I guess you belief in the psychological effects of welfare that I have never scene proven. No one wants to be poor but that is your ascertain. You assume that the laziness of poor people overides the desire to live above poverty. To me that's ridiculous. Do you honestly believe when given the choice between sitting at home on welfare and a good paying job the majority of poor people would choose poverty.

I am against this social security system. Have you looked at that statement they send out that tells you what you QUALIFY for at age 65? How the fuck could that be? They are paying 1.1 percent interest on your money so you are either ill informed or just talking democrat talking points. Not to mention these parties in washington are doing the SAME DAMN THING everybody was upset with Enron about with our social security money. These politicians on both sides of the isle are taking the money out and using it for all kinds of spending programs and nobody is batting an eye about it. That shit is about broke and you all know it. But the moment somebody talks about creating a government system where for those who want something in retirement can get it, a whole lot of pushback on that. Why? Why can't I get 12 percent on my social security?

You obviously don't understand much about social security. Do you realize only half of the your total social security money is money you earned. Do you realize that the other half is given to you by your employer. Do you realize that you double your money the instant it is put into the social security system from welfare from your employer. You probably don't but it's a fact. If you are against welfare then you should also be against the forcing of your employer to match your social security and medicare contributions. But of course you are not.

More bullshit. True, people with money and have had it for a while tend to forget about those who are less fortunate. But that's EVERYBODY with money. Rich is rich.

Rich don't give a fuck about party.

That retoric attempts to hide reality that those who truly give a damn about the poor is the middle class. And the poor folk who are satisfied with where they are in life, that they view their lives as a day to day struggle, could give a fuck about all this caring either party tries to lay claim to. They want the very basic shit to get by on. So save the "we are better because"...bullshit. It only makes you and the people listing to you feel good but it means litterly nothing to those that live poor.

All that noise about the bush tax cuts and the 2000 dollars everybody got in the first bush term, I dont recall ANYBODY giving it back. Nor did I hear ONE democrat propose a bill recending a penny that refund. So spare me the retoric about rich democrats giving a fuck about the poor that a rich republican. Neither gives a fuck about anybody without money.


-VG

First off I never said anything about anyparty caring more about poor people then the other. I pointed out the obvious contradiction of fighting against welfare by people who readily accept free money from their employer. When an employer agrees to pay you 30k a year the government makes them pay you 30k plus another 2,295 welfare contributed to your Social secuirty and medicare accounts. Every employee in America gets 7.65% of their salary as welfare every year.

So give up your social security or at least 50% of it. Give it back to your employer he didn't agree to pay you that it was forced from the government. Where is the uproar.
 
Above anything else people are willing to live off well fare cause its easy. most poor people see the rich and figure they have something that they lack( regardless if its true or not). everybody in america may want to be rich, but even the laziest idiot knows theres a big difference between wanting to be rich and gettin rich


and if that video was supposed to contain a samplin of leaders and intellectuals, then the "black race" is and was always doomed. All those collectivist ideals kill rational independent thoughts and creativity and is a large part of why the "black race" is so screwed up to this day.

I may not agree wit everything that Shelby Steele said but hes right, we dont owe anybody anything.
 
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I hate it when people equate welfare = black.

What about corporate welfare? Who does that benefit????

Which type does the most harm to the average citizen????

"Blacks on welfare" slogan is just a coverup........:smh:

* Corporate tax breaks - does not help blacks

* Farm subsidies :
Link : How Farm Subsidies Became America's Largest Corporate Welfare Program

With the House and Senate close to agreeing on a new $171 billion farm bill, the time is right to take a fresh look at farm policy to ensure that taxpayers are getting their money's worth. Although farm subsidies are justified as helping struggling family farmers make ends meet, the bulk of subsidy payments goes to the largest high-income farms. In fact, current farm policy allocates two out of every three farm subsidy dollars to the top 10 percent of subsidy recipients while completely shutting 60 percent of farmers out of subsidy programs.

The ceilings that are in place on most farm subsidy programs are rarely enforced by Congress or the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA), and contain loopholes that allow the largest farms and agribusinesses to bypass these limits. As a result, taxpayers are paying billions of dollars to subsidize prosperous farms. Making matters worse, many of the large farms that receive subsidies have used these funds to buy out small farms and consolidate the agriculture industry.

Far from remedying this problem, the House's Farm Security Act of 2001 (H.R. 2646) and the Senate's Agriculture Conservation and Rural Enhancement Act (S. 1731) both increase subsidies and continue tilting them to large farms and agribusinesses.1

* Political subsidies i.e. pork projects attached to bills

The Congressional Pig Book is CAGW's annual compilation of the pork-barrel projects in the federal budget. The 2006 Pig Book identified 9,963 projects in the 11 appropriations bills that constitute the discretionary portion of the federal budget for fiscal 2006, costing taxpayers $29 billion. A "pork" project is a line-item in an appropriations bill that designates tax dollars for a specific purpose in circumvention of established budgetary procedures.
http://www.cagw.org/site/PageServer...rts_pigbook2006




The # of projects increased by 940 percent between 1996 and 2006.

The # of projects decreased 29 percent between 2005 and 2006.

The total number of projects has increased by 6.4 percent since 2003.

The cost of pork in 2006 was 6.2 percent more than in fiscal 2005.

The cost of pork has increased by 29 percent since fiscal 2003.

Since 1991, CAGW had identified 76,421 projects totaling $241 billion.

* All years are fiscal years


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Link: http://www.cagw.org/site/PageServer...report#trend s



More:

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Welcome to the on-line version of "The Hidden Entitlements," CTJ's publication outlining hundreds of billions of dollars in "hidden entitlements." buried deep in the federal tax code. Functionally equivalent to direct spending programs, far too many of these "tax expenditures" shower benefits on corporations and the rich at the expense of America's hard-working, taxpaying families. Many of the new leaders in Congress like to pretend that tax loopholes for the well-heeled and the well-lobbied don't hurt the rest of us. But they're dead wrong.

In this new report, Citizens for Tax Justice details and analyzes the hundreds of government spending programs hidden in the tax code * programs that will cost $3.7 trillion over the next 7 years. It shows how some are targeted to industries with lots of political clout. How others are designed to give their biggest subsidies to people with the highest incomes. And how many send the wrong signals to businesses, investors and consumers, and thereby cost jobs and impede economic growth.

The special interests love their tax entitlements because they know full well that many could never survive the scrutiny that applies to the regular federal budget. Yet because they are embedded in the tax code, these programs go on spending our tax dollars, year in and year out, without serious review.

If America is serious about cutting the federal budget deficit, curbing waste and simplifying our tax laws, then it's time to bring the hidden entitlements, the corporate tax welfare and the upside-down subsidies out into the open.

This version of "The Hidden Entitlements" contains cost estimates for 1996-2002, and consists of full text and graphics from the printed version.

<hr>

Table of Contents

PART I

An Overview of Tax Expenditures

Summary Tables PART II

Tax Expenditures for Business & Investment

1. Accelerated depreciation
2. Capital Gains <dl><dd>Details on existing capital gains tax breaks <dl><dd> 28% maximum rate </dd><dd> Indefinite deferral of tax on unrealized capital gains </dd><dd> Capital gains tax breaks for gifts and inheritances </dd><dd> Special additional industry* specific capital gains tax breaks</dd><dd> Other special capital gains breaks</dd></dl>
</dd><dd>Recently proposed capital gains tax changes
</dd></dl>3. Tax Breaks for multinational corporations
4. Tax*exempt bonds
5. Business meals and entertainment
6. Mergers and acquisitions
7. Insurance companies and products <dl><dd>Interest on life insurance savings
</dd><dd>Small property and casualty insurance companies
</dd><dd>Deduction of unpaid property loss reserves of property and casualty companies
</dd><dd>Special treatment of life insurance company reserves
</dd><dd>Insurance companies owned by tax*exempt organizations
</dd><dd>Blue Cross and Blue Shield
</dd></dl>8. Oil, gas and energy tax breaks <dl><dd>Exploration and development costs
</dd><dd>Percentage depletion
</dd><dd>Oil and gas exception to passive loss limitation
</dd><dd>Alternative fuel production credit
</dd><dd>Alcohol fuel credit
</dd><dd>New technology credits
</dd><dd>Credit and deduction for clean*fuel vehicles and property
</dd><dd>Exclusion of utility conservation subsidies
</dd></dl>9. Timber, agriculture, minerals <dl><dd>Exploration and development costs
</dd><dd>Percentage depletion
</dd><dd>Mining reclamation reserves
</dd><dd>Expending multi*period timber growing costs
</dd><dd>Credit and seven*year amortization for reforestation
</dd><dd>Expending certain capital outlays
</dd><dd>Expending multi*period livestock and crop production costs
</dd><dd>Loans forgiven solvent farmers
</dd></dl>10. Financial institutions (non-insurance)
11. Other business and investment tax breaks <dl><dd>Low*income housing credit
</dd><dd>Employer Stock Ownership Plan (ESOP) provisions
</dd><dd>Real property installment sales
</dd><dd>Empowerment zones
</dd><dd>Reduced corporate income tax rates for smaller corporations
</dd><dd>Treatment of "Alaskan Native Corporations" losses
</dd><dd>Cancellation of indebtedness
</dd><dd>Exceptions to imputed interest rules
</dd><dd>Exemptions of certain mutuals' and cooperatives' income
</dd><dd>U.S. savings bonds
</dd></dl>12. Pensions, IRAs, etc. PART III

Personal Tax Expenditures

1. Itemized deductions <dl><dd>Mortgage interest on owner*occupied homes
</dd><dd>State and local taxes
</dd><dd>Charitable contributions
</dd><dd>Medical expenses
</dd><dd>Casualty losses
</dd></dl>2. Fringe benefits <dl><dd>Employer*owned medical insurance and expenses
</dd><dd>Other employer*provided insurance benefits
</dd><dd>Exclusion of employee parking expenses & employer*provided transit passes
</dd><dd>Other fringe benefits
</dd></dl>3. Earned*income tax credit
4. Other personal tax breaks <dl><dd>Tax*free Social Security benefits for retired workers
</dd><dd>Other support of the aged and the blind
</dd><dd>Capital gains on home sales
</dd><dd>Workmen's compensation, public assistance & disabled coal miner benefits
</dd><dd>Benefits to soldiers and veterans
</dd><dd>Child and dependent care expenses
</dd><dd>Scholarship and fellowship income
</dd><dd>Self*employed health insurance deduction
</dd><dd>U.S. savings bonds for education
</dd><dd>Dependent students age 19 or older
</dd><dd>Foster care payments
</dd></dl>PART IV

Conclusion

<dl><dd>APPENDIX: DETAILED TABLES (spreadsheet downloads)</dd></dl>Link: http://www.ctj.org/hid_ent/contents/content.htm



More:

Corporate Welfare Information Center


"The $150 billion for corporate subsidies and tax benefits eclipses the annual budget deficit of $130 billion. It's more than the $145 billion paid out annually for the core programs of the social welfare state: Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC), student aid, housing, food and nutrition, and all direct public assistance (excluding Social Security and medical care)." <hr width="30%"> "After World War II, the nation's tax bill was roughly split between corporations and individuals. But after years of changes in the federal tax code and international economy, the corporate share of taxes has declined to a fourth the amount individuals pay, according to the US Office of Management and Budget." --Boston Globe series on Corporate Welfare

[size=+1]The more corporate welfare received, the more layoffs... [/size] This is a list of the 8 corporate welfare recipients that were listed in the first article of the Inquirer series, comparing corporate welfare received to the number of people layed off in that time (1990-1994).



Welfare recieved Employment
GM $110,600,000 -104,000
IBM 58,000,000 -100,000
AT&T 35,000,000 -1,077 * #
GE 25,400,000 -80,000
Amoco 23,600,000 -8,300 *
DuPont 15,200,000 -29,961
Motorola 15,100,000 +9,600 *
Citicorp 9,600,000 -15,700

* exceptions to the trend

# AT&T layed off 40,000 people shortly after this accounting
</pre> see also: Tax Subsidies Reward Corporate Downsizers (Citizens for Tax Justice report)




Link: http://www.corporations.org/welfare/





Black isn't a skin color..............

Peace
 
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