A Look at the Numbers: How the Rich Get Richer
- Thread starter thoughtone
- Start date
That sentence there. Brilliant correlation-causation logic.
That's the reason I avoid this shit.
The tragedy is that there's a possibility that you've actually achieved some level of "higher education".
You got me Sean. I am delusional. I am going to plea ignorance and also being a little slow. So please accept my short comings and please break down for me your disection of what I said again. I think one time when I was in liberal arts college I could talk like you and I totally know what you are going through. I started dumbing down myself till I am officially dumb like the people I dumb myself down for.
With that said I still want you to explaing it to me cause it is refreshing hearing this kind of talk. Makes me proud.
There is folks here that want to hear what you have to say. Engage my brother. If there is one thing you can do here, it's teach. I am not to pround too accept reasoning. I am happy when someone here point out flaws in my reasoning. I am happy when folks show me a differnt perspective to look at.
After reading your statement then I think it's best that I ask the OP instead of jumping to conclusions why he bumped the post.
So if you don't mind thoughtone, Tell us why you bumped the post.
With that said I still want you to explaing it to me cause it is refreshing hearing this kind of talk. Makes me proud.
There is folks here that want to hear what you have to say. Engage my brother. If there is one thing you can do here, it's teach. I am not to pround too accept reasoning. I am happy when someone here point out flaws in my reasoning. I am happy when folks show me a differnt perspective to look at.
After reading your statement then I think it's best that I ask the OP instead of jumping to conclusions why he bumped the post.
So if you don't mind thoughtone, Tell us why you bumped the post.
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Awww, how cute. The classic melodramatic retort with a health dose of sarcastic flagellation.
Quite remarkable how your previously displayed psychic endowment seems to have escaped you all of the sudden, wouldn't you say. But ah, yes, by all means feel free .. indulge yourself.
Liberal Arts College ...
... good one. No really, good one.
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You like many of the ill-educated, post Reagan era generation mistake entrepreneurship for capitalism. Entrepreneurs may get seed monies from the government, private or any source that will invest in them. During the post slavery period in the United States Black folk were making strides in all endeavors. Education, business, sports, civil rights. politicos just to name a few. And of course Madam Walker made her money when there was little competition much less any products offered for women of African decent. Contrast today when the number one Black hair care supplier is Revlon and Sisters line the pockets of Koreans to buy their hair supplies. My brother, if we follow the western, white, European, American model of Capitalism to better ourselves we will be spinning our wheels like we have. Our success as a people is not in libertarian individualism it is in economic unity.
They keep talking about how the poor and the middle class don't pay taxes, and rich pay for everything...
State Income Taxes
Social Security
Medicare
Sales Tax
Property Tax
Fuel Tax
License Plates
User Charges (Mass Transit, Tolls)
State Income Taxes
Social Security
Medicare
Sales Tax
Property Tax
Fuel Tax
License Plates
User Charges (Mass Transit, Tolls)
My point is anyone can get rich if they are focused and committed to getting rich. It's not about govt it's on the individual. We weren't talking about how the black race is suppose to come up. Even though I don't think the utopian monolithic society you describe is feasible, who knows. You are right about capitalism and entrepreneurship but it would be almost impossible to have one without the other.
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World's Rich Got Richer Amid 2009 Recession
* Ranks of millionaires up 17% to 10 million in 2009
* Their wealth up 19% to $39 trillion, nears 2007 levels
* Asia-Pacific wealth exceeds Europe for first time
* North American wealth up 18 pct to $10.7 trillion
by Joseph A. Giannone
Tue, June 22 2010
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN2115726820100622
NEW YORK, June 22 (Reuters) - The rich grew richer last year, even as the world endured the worst recession in decades.
A stock market rebound helped the world's ranks of millionaires climb 17 percent to 10 million, while their collective wealth surged 19 percent to $39 trillion, nearly recouping losses from the financial crisis, according to the latest Merrill Lynch-Capgemini world wealth report.
Stock values rose by half, while hedge funds recovered most of their 2008 losses, in a year marked by government stimulus spending and central bank easing.
"We are already seeing distinct signs of recovery and, in some areas, a complete return to 2007 levels of wealth and growth," Bank of America Corp wealth management chief Sallie Krawcheck said.
The fastest growth in wealth took place in India, China and Brazil, some of the hardest hit markets in 2008. Wealth in Latin America and the Asia-Pacific soared to record highs.
Asia's millionaire ranks rose to 3 million, matching Europe for the first time, paced by a 4.5 percent economic expansion.
Asian millionaires' combined wealth surged 31 percent to $9.7 trillion, surpassing Europe's $9.5 trillion.
In North America, the ranks of the rich rose 17 percent and their wealth grew 18 percent to $10.7 trillion.
The United States was home to the most millionaires in 2009 -- 2.87 million -- followed by Japan with 1.65 million, Germany with 861,000, and China with 477,000.
Switzerland had the highest concentration of millionaires: nearly 35 for every 1,000 adults.
Yet as portfolios bounced back, investors remained wary after a collapse that erased a decade of stock gains, fueled a contraction in the global economy and sent unemployment soaring.
The report, based on surveys with more than 1,100 wealthy investors with 23 firms, found that the rich were well served by holding a broad range of investments, including commodities and real estate.
"The wealthy allocated, as opposed to concentrated, their investments," Merrill Lynch head of U.S. wealth management Lyle LaMothe said in an interview.
Millionaires poured more of their money into fixed-income investments seeking predictable returns and cash flow. The challenge ahead for brokers is convincing clients to move off the sidelines and pursue riskier, more fruitful investments.
"There is still a hesitancy," LaMothe said. "Liquidity is incredibly important and people need cash flow to preserve their lifestyle -- but they want to replace that cash flow in a way that does not increase their risk profile."
The report found that investor confidence in advisers and regulators remains shaken. The rich are actively managing their investments, seeking customized advice and demanding full disclosure about the securities they buy.
There were signs that investors were shaking off their concerns. Families that kept money closer to home during the crisis began shifting money to foreign markets, particularly the developing nations.
North American and European investors are expected to increase their exposure to Asian markets, which are projected to lead the world in economic expansion. Europe's wealthy are seen increasing their U.S. and Canadian holdings.
More wealthy clients also are taking a harder look at large companies that pay healthy dividends, as an alternative to bonds and their razor-thin yields.
"Investors are open to areas they hadn't thought about before as they try to preserve their ability to be philanthropic, to preserve their lifestyle," LaMothe said. "To me, the report underscored clients are involved and they're not inclined to stay in 1 percent savings accounts."
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Rebound of the Rich: Wealth Rises to $39 Trillion
June 22, 2010 http://rebound-of-the-rich..
Great Recession? What recession? The world’s millionaires and billionaires — now totaling 10 million — saw their overall wealth jump 18.9 percent last year, to $39 trillion.
The surge in the stock market in 2009 restored many people back to the ranks of the rich as the financial crisis abated. The number of people with at least $1 million in assets beyond their homes and household goods climbed 17 percent, according to a report on the world’s wealth by Merrill Lynch and Capgemini, a Paris-based business consulting firm. Their total wealth approached the 2007 peak of $40.7 trillion, after a 20 percent plunge to $32.8 trillion in 2008.
“We are already seeing distinct signs of recovery, and in some areas a complete return to 2007 levels of wealth and growth,” Sallie Krawcheck, president of global wealth and investment management at Bank of America, said in a statement.
The very rich — those with disposable assets exceeding $30 million — did even better, increasing their wealth by 21.5 percent, the report said. The very rich, however, took a bigger hit in 2008, losing 24 percent of their fortunes.
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The report did take note of the concentration of wealth among the very rich. At the end of 2009, it said, these “ultra-high net worth individuals” held 35.5 percent of the total $39 trillion of the world’s wealth, or an estimated $13.8 trillion, even though this group represented less than 1 percent of the 10 million people classified as being rich, or roughly 90,000 worldwide.</b></span>
Based on the report’s numbers, rich people had wealth averaging about $3.9 million last year, while ultra-rich people had fortunes averaging about $150 million.
As expected, the most millionaires could be found in the United States, where their ranks rose 16.5 percent, to 2.87 million, last year, according to the report. Their total wealth in North America rose 17.8 percent, to $10.7 trillion.
Once again, the number of very rich people in North America was much smaller, at just 36,300, the report said.
Meanwhile, Asia, with three million rich people, has as many millionaires as Europe for the first time. But Asia’s rich were slightly wealthier, controlling $9.7 trillion at the end of 2009, compared with $9.5 trillion held by their European counterparts.
Japan had the second-largest group of millionaires, totaling 1.65 million, while Germany came in third, with 861,000.
China came in fourth, with 477,000 millionaires, edging past Britain with 448,000.
Merrill Lynch and Capgemini said they based their report on a survey of investors in 71 countries that accounted for 98 percent of the world’s gross national income and 99 percent of the world’s stock market capitalization.
<hr noshade color="#0000FF" size="6"></hr>
World's Rich Got Richer Amid 2009 Recession
* Ranks of millionaires up 17% to 10 million in 2009
* Their wealth up 19% to $39 trillion, nears 2007 levels
* Asia-Pacific wealth exceeds Europe for first time
* North American wealth up 18 pct to $10.7 trillion
by Joseph A. Giannone
Tue, June 22 2010
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN2115726820100622
NEW YORK, June 22 (Reuters) - The rich grew richer last year, even as the world endured the worst recession in decades.
A stock market rebound helped the world's ranks of millionaires climb 17 percent to 10 million, while their collective wealth surged 19 percent to $39 trillion, nearly recouping losses from the financial crisis, according to the latest Merrill Lynch-Capgemini world wealth report.
Stock values rose by half, while hedge funds recovered most of their 2008 losses, in a year marked by government stimulus spending and central bank easing.
"We are already seeing distinct signs of recovery and, in some areas, a complete return to 2007 levels of wealth and growth," Bank of America Corp wealth management chief Sallie Krawcheck said.
The fastest growth in wealth took place in India, China and Brazil, some of the hardest hit markets in 2008. Wealth in Latin America and the Asia-Pacific soared to record highs.
Asia's millionaire ranks rose to 3 million, matching Europe for the first time, paced by a 4.5 percent economic expansion.
Asian millionaires' combined wealth surged 31 percent to $9.7 trillion, surpassing Europe's $9.5 trillion.
In North America, the ranks of the rich rose 17 percent and their wealth grew 18 percent to $10.7 trillion.
The United States was home to the most millionaires in 2009 -- 2.87 million -- followed by Japan with 1.65 million, Germany with 861,000, and China with 477,000.
Switzerland had the highest concentration of millionaires: nearly 35 for every 1,000 adults.
Yet as portfolios bounced back, investors remained wary after a collapse that erased a decade of stock gains, fueled a contraction in the global economy and sent unemployment soaring.
The report, based on surveys with more than 1,100 wealthy investors with 23 firms, found that the rich were well served by holding a broad range of investments, including commodities and real estate.
"The wealthy allocated, as opposed to concentrated, their investments," Merrill Lynch head of U.S. wealth management Lyle LaMothe said in an interview.
Millionaires poured more of their money into fixed-income investments seeking predictable returns and cash flow. The challenge ahead for brokers is convincing clients to move off the sidelines and pursue riskier, more fruitful investments.
"There is still a hesitancy," LaMothe said. "Liquidity is incredibly important and people need cash flow to preserve their lifestyle -- but they want to replace that cash flow in a way that does not increase their risk profile."
The report found that investor confidence in advisers and regulators remains shaken. The rich are actively managing their investments, seeking customized advice and demanding full disclosure about the securities they buy.
There were signs that investors were shaking off their concerns. Families that kept money closer to home during the crisis began shifting money to foreign markets, particularly the developing nations.
North American and European investors are expected to increase their exposure to Asian markets, which are projected to lead the world in economic expansion. Europe's wealthy are seen increasing their U.S. and Canadian holdings.
More wealthy clients also are taking a harder look at large companies that pay healthy dividends, as an alternative to bonds and their razor-thin yields.
"Investors are open to areas they hadn't thought about before as they try to preserve their ability to be philanthropic, to preserve their lifestyle," LaMothe said. "To me, the report underscored clients are involved and they're not inclined to stay in 1 percent savings accounts."
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[FLASH]http://www.divshare.com/flash/video2?myId=11788237-99a&new_design=true width="368" height="208"[/FLASH]
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Rebound of the Rich: Wealth Rises to $39 Trillion
June 22, 2010 http://rebound-of-the-rich..
Great Recession? What recession? The world’s millionaires and billionaires — now totaling 10 million — saw their overall wealth jump 18.9 percent last year, to $39 trillion.
The surge in the stock market in 2009 restored many people back to the ranks of the rich as the financial crisis abated. The number of people with at least $1 million in assets beyond their homes and household goods climbed 17 percent, according to a report on the world’s wealth by Merrill Lynch and Capgemini, a Paris-based business consulting firm. Their total wealth approached the 2007 peak of $40.7 trillion, after a 20 percent plunge to $32.8 trillion in 2008.
“We are already seeing distinct signs of recovery, and in some areas a complete return to 2007 levels of wealth and growth,” Sallie Krawcheck, president of global wealth and investment management at Bank of America, said in a statement.
The very rich — those with disposable assets exceeding $30 million — did even better, increasing their wealth by 21.5 percent, the report said. The very rich, however, took a bigger hit in 2008, losing 24 percent of their fortunes.
<SPAN style="background-color:yellow"><b>
The report did take note of the concentration of wealth among the very rich. At the end of 2009, it said, these “ultra-high net worth individuals” held 35.5 percent of the total $39 trillion of the world’s wealth, or an estimated $13.8 trillion, even though this group represented less than 1 percent of the 10 million people classified as being rich, or roughly 90,000 worldwide.</b></span>
Based on the report’s numbers, rich people had wealth averaging about $3.9 million last year, while ultra-rich people had fortunes averaging about $150 million.
As expected, the most millionaires could be found in the United States, where their ranks rose 16.5 percent, to 2.87 million, last year, according to the report. Their total wealth in North America rose 17.8 percent, to $10.7 trillion.
Once again, the number of very rich people in North America was much smaller, at just 36,300, the report said.
Meanwhile, Asia, with three million rich people, has as many millionaires as Europe for the first time. But Asia’s rich were slightly wealthier, controlling $9.7 trillion at the end of 2009, compared with $9.5 trillion held by their European counterparts.
Japan had the second-largest group of millionaires, totaling 1.65 million, while Germany came in third, with 861,000.
China came in fourth, with 477,000 millionaires, edging past Britain with 448,000.
Merrill Lynch and Capgemini said they based their report on a survey of investors in 71 countries that accounted for 98 percent of the world’s gross national income and 99 percent of the world’s stock market capitalization.
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Which is why the 'Fair Tax' scheme is total trash.
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1. We need a higher tax rate for companies sitting on cash doing nothing. The current figures is 2 trillion. Force companies to spend their cash with high wages or to invest.
2. Free trade deals that require companies to put production in country if their sales meet a certain threshold. If 80 percent of your sales is made in the united states, you need to make the product here. None of this race to the bottom, between two countries.
2. Free trade deals that require companies to put production in country if their sales meet a certain threshold. If 80 percent of your sales is made in the united states, you need to make the product here. None of this race to the bottom, between two countries.
With all due respect, this is ridiculous because companies must have access to cash reserves to manage economic downturns. Thats one of the first lessons I learned in corporate America, managing success! What happened to freedom?
I agree with a twist. Companies should be rewarded by trying keep manufacturing in the states. For instance, if a company does 85% of its manufacturing domestically, their incentive should be a tax rate consistent with the amount of domestic production. In a nutshell, the more domestic production, the more favorable your tax rate.
I said it back in April & I'll say it again:
You are right, but it is similar to the estate tax, that is why you see the rich give all their money away, uncle sam will take 55 percent if they don't.
There are companies with no debt, billions in the bank from taking their manufacturing overseas. They should pay out in wages, buy a company, or get taxed. I know companies need cash reserves, but there are extreme cases.
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When posters look at taxes as a remedy to level the playing field, We are not addressing the problem, we are looking at the symptoms of the problem. The symptom, in this topic is "the rich are getting richer". My friends, the problem is we are "printing money" (increasing the money supply) to pay our debts. And it is a predictable consequence that "the rich will get richer" as we continue to print even more money
I know you have the real knowlede about what is money and what is not. Printing "money" is a political device, a trick, a ruse, a hidden tax. But, making money (mining, salvage, minting) is economic wealth.
It is this definition that confuses people about whether the rich are getting richer in the United States.
Actually, the rich are getting poorer, a LOT poorer.
The dollar amounts may be higher, but the actual wealth it can acquire has been dropping like a rock since 2000.
Think about it.
How much gas could you buy with $1 million in 2000...
or gold, or silver, or copper, or nickel, or orange juice, or beef, or anything else that is considered wealth
compared to today, 2010?
The wealth of Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, Larry Ellison, and too many more to count, has been falling like a rock for 10 years... without any signs of stopping. In fact, their wealth will probably be just a fraction of what it is today only 5 years from now.
The United States is rapidly descending into 3rd world nation status. Roads are not being repaired, schools are falling apart, the military has to cut back on wars, the banks are teetering on collapse, houses are being abandoned, scavengers are stealing copper from everything not nailed down... it's getting uglier by the day.
Just wait till gas prices spike again. Then, we will really see who is rich and who is not.
It'll still be Warren Buffett, Bill Gates, and Larry Ellison. The gap between the very rich and the working classes hasn't shrunk, it's increased in the last 10 years, to levels not seen since The Gilded Age.
You're right, the roads and bridges do need repairing. Some schools are falling apart (at the same time there are brand new schools being built all across the country, all the time). Military should cut back on wars, that's a good thing. We wouldn't have to print so much money if we didn't feel the need to protect our "empire".
What banks are teetering? That is so 2009. Banks are doing great right now. It would be better if some of them did fail but not in the haphazard way they were last year but in an organized fashion that didn't drag the entire national economy with it.
So using your absolute logic, Dave Rockefeller or JP Morgan were richer (wealthier) than Bill Gates or Warren Buffet?
Why stop a 2000? The value of the US dollar has been falling for 200 years in absolute terms. In 1909, a new Ford Model T cost about $900, equivalent to $21,0000 today. In 1967, a one way ticket from LA to NYC on a commercial jetliner was about $1200. Now, $300 or less. A brand new 21 inch color television set in 1967 cost over a $1000, now a flat screen 42" HDTV will run you $400. Do you see the flaw in comparing absolute dollars from different eras?
The point is not that cost of things has gone up, which they have, the ratio to the cost of things in relationship to the price of gold is relatively equal, since about the mid 1970s. But the amount of wealth that the top 3% of wage earners has increase greatly since the mid 1980s.
The convertibility of the US dollar has decreased since 1990, because we (USA) have based our economy on service and finance rather than manufacturing, the wages of Americans has dropped. So the argument of the price of gold has no bearing on returning good paying jobs to the US.
of course, but some think wealth can be created by a printing press.
When measured in commodities, it has to be obvious that the purchasing power of the dollar is diminishing. But when measured in 'paper' dollars, some may percieve the gains as 'wealth'
true, it's right around the corner.
I agree the gap is wider than ever seen in my lifetime or anyone alive that I know.
That still doesn't change the fact everyone in the United States is getting a lot poorer.
The United States has a long history of mismanaging its scarce resources.
New school palaces are built, but the education is appalling.
The banks look stable but the Fed and Treasury are preparing yet another bailout in November, 2010.
Why should markets be orderly and stable? That is not the nature of markets. When you get in the way of that, like the bailouts of 2008 and 2009, you end up just making things worse in the end, for everyone.
The economy is a full mess and getting worse. The rich aren't getting over on me, because I realize all they have is an illusion of wealth.
The dollar was very stable until 1933 when FDR took the country off the gold standard and devalued it by 40%. George Washington could buy a basket of food for about the same price as Herbert Hoover, with a standard silver dollar.
That is almost 150 years!
What happened once gold was removed?
The dollar lost value for the next 32 years. It got so bad, that eventually, the Federal government had to remove all the silver!
Then, 6 years later, it had to default on all its foreign obligtations to pay in gold.
Then, what happened?
Gas prices went through the roof!
There is no flaw because you are not comparing commodities.
You are comparing finished, manufactured goods. There was a time when the United States produced the vast majority of cars and TVs with good-paying jobs to buy those things.
Who cares if the price is cheaper if the jobs leave.
So, what is the true price when an overvalued dollar causes unemployment to get the lower price?
A dollar, without silver/gold backing, is a worthless piece of paper.
It is why the economy is going down the drain.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/25/income_inequality_statistics_tax_code__n_773392.html
All the money floating to the top.
Politicians 'fighting' over a three percent increase in the top tax rate, pretending to be a huge difference, than begging for a campaign donations from the same people.
It sucks to live in the United States now.
All the money floating to the top.
Politicians 'fighting' over a three percent increase in the top tax rate, pretending to be a huge difference, than begging for a campaign donations from the same people.
It sucks to live in the United States now.
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