Grant Hill's Misfire

Maxxam

Rising Star
Platinum Member
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jonathan-weiler/grant-hill-fires-an-airba_b_837040.html?ir=Media


In the bizarro world of America, circa 2011, the privileged are the righteous aggrieved, while the lesser off are branded selfish and entitled. It's a world in which the biggest financial institutions receive hundreds of billions in bailout money, while under-water homeowners are deemed "losers" who should sink or swim on their own. It's a world in which the "angry rich," to use Paul Krugman's term, scream about their oppression as their riches grow, while their defenders describe public sector employees making $50,000 a year as "greedy" and "thuggish" even as those employees make wage and benefit concessions that the angry rich would never consent to.

In that world, I suppose it's unsurprising that Jalen Rose, the son of some of the meanest streets in America, is being attacked far and wide for comments he made about Duke and Grant Hill in the Fab Five documentary that aired on ESPN on Sunday night, particularly Rose's comment that he thought all Black players who went to Duke were "Uncle Toms." And it's also unsurprising that Grant Hill, the son of privilege, is being praised for his response in yesterday's New York Times to Rose's comments.

Unsurprising, but no less distressing. In his response, Hill described Rose's statements as "sad and somewhat pathetic." Hill was upset that he was called a "bitch and worse" and pressed his attack against Rose: "In his garbled but sweeping comment that Duke recruits only 'black players that were 'Uncle Toms,' Jalen seems to change the usual meaning of those very vitriolic words into his own meaning, i.e., blacks from two-parent, middle-class families. He leaves us all guessing exactly what he believes today. I am beyond fortunate to have two parents who are still working well into their 60s. They received great educations and use them every day. My parents taught me a personal ethic I try to live by and pass on to my children." Hill also described the struggles and hard work of his ancestors, which allowed Hill to enjoy the great life he's had and took umbrage at Rose's apparent slight to that family legacy -- Hill said that his family was "disparaged" for their education.

(One thing to clarify is that Jimmy King did say, after he called Laettner the b-word, that he thought Hill was too. Every other insulting comment in that segment was directed at Laettner, not Hill. Whatever the inappropriateness of such statements, they were clearly what the players felt before they played Duke for the first time. Rose made clear what they thought of Laettner once they took the court against him: "he had game." And Rose himself used no negative terms to describe Hill. We'll come back to that).

More substantially, what's distressing both about Hill's "open letter" and about the widespread praise for it is how badly it misfired, ignoring much of the context and substance of Rose's remarks.

Before we get to that, here, in its entirety, is what Jalen said during the relevant segment of the documentary:

"For me, Duke was personal. I hated Duke and I hated everything I felt Duke stood for. Schools like Duke didn't recruit players like me. I felt like they only recruited players who were Uncle Toms.."

After some comments from other members of the Fab Five about Duke, Jalen continued:

"I was jealous of Grant Hill. He came from a great black family. Congratulations. Your mom went to college and was roommates with Hilary Clinton. Your dad played in the NFL, is a well-spoken and successful man. I was upset and bitter that my mom had to bust her hump for twenty-plus years. I was bitter that I had a professional athlete that was my father that I didn't know. I resented that, more so than I resented him. I looked at it as 'they are who the world accepts and we are who the world hates."

Everyone may, of course, decide for themselves what Rose meant. But a few things are clear:

- at no time did Rose criticize Hill's family. He specifically praised it.- "He came from a great Black family." The meaning of that statement is indisputably clear. That Hill felt a need to spend much of his letter defending and describing his family circumstances is a "response" to something, but it's not really germane to what Rose said. Hill did acknowledge in the letter that, based on statements Rose has made subsequently, he believes Rose has some admiration for Hill's family. But this really didn't require any clarification. Rose said it straight out in the documentary.

- despite the fact that Hill considers it a mystery as to what Rose believes today, there is really no way to misunderstand the meaning of Rose's words in the documentary itself -- he was describing how he felt as a freshman in college. Hence the repeated and consistent use of the past tense - "I hated...", "I was bitter...", "I resented." Despite the efforts at equanimity in Hill's letter, this insinuation seems intended to perpetuate controversy. That Rose still believes that Duke only recruits certain kinds of players or, more to the point, generally won't recruit certain kinds of players, is certainly true. But is that really controversial? Isn't Coach K usually praised for that very fact?

- the heart and soul of Rose's reflections, for anyone who cared to understand at all what he had to say, was his self-described resentment about the very difficult circumstances of his childhood. As Rose has elaborated in subsequent days, his home was heated by Kerosene. His family bathed using boiled water. For a guy who is so insistent that people give full consideration to all of the dimensions of his his family background and circumstances, It's noteworthy that Hill ignored what Rose actually said about his own family (Hill did add a line in the letter about how Jalen's mother's made sacrifices. But this still blows off the obvious source of Jalen's feelings -- his tough upbringing).

Despite being a UM and UNC alum, I have always liked Grant Hill and still do. And the letter itself is not vitriolic. But more than a cogent response to Rose's words, Hill's letter -- and especially the nearly universal toasts to it -- stands as another testament to the time in which we live, one in which the affluent manage to see themselves as put upon and put down. In today's bizarro world, too many of the privileged -- sensitive to the slightest slights -- believe that they should never have to feel anything but pride and self-satisfaction about their station in life. And they can apparently expect to have their praises sung for expressing indignation when they are not afforded their due consideration. In spite of ceaseless attacks on so-called "political correctness" for supposedly stifling open and honest debate in this country, it's worth noting that on Sunday night we were treated to a rare and refreshingly candid self-reflection on a major network from a man who came from nothing and still acknowledges that he carries some of the scars of his past. And the result was widespread condemnation from many quarters, in a society that has become perversely defensive of the prerogatives of the most well-off.
 
I don't know, IMO in an effort to show that he wasn't a Tom, he looked like a Tom. It looked like he was piling on and was doing what they wanted him to do, and attack another black man.

It's like Clarence Thomas saying he gives to the UNCF.

If he would have come out and said, well those were his feelings at 18 and we all mature and feel differently. The story would have been done. He added legs to it.
 
Listen, Grant Hill Said what He said cause He still
was Hurt by what was said about Him & His team.
I would guess Rose Never said sorry or cleared
things up since then so it was fresh on Hill's mind.
Now that He did we can all move on.
However, Rose WAS WRONG TO BEGIN WITH.
We need to change that whole perception in our culture.


FYI - Hill Never said Rose talked about His FAMILY Directly
He said if you call Him an Uncle Tom You HAVE to be
talking bad about His Parents...who consequently raised Him
 
Finally, someone with some sense.


I don't know, IMO in an effort to show that he wasn't a Tom, he looked like a Tom. It looked like he was piling on and was doing what they wanted him to do, and attack another black man.

It's like Clarence Thomas saying he gives to the UNCF.

If he would have come out and said, well those were his feelings at 18 and we all mature and feel differently. The story would have been done. He added legs to it.

About time


Exactly!!:yes:
 
They talking about this shit on Sports reporters now and obviously none of the reporters keep up on the news cause all of them kept saying (Jalen hasn't been clear whether he just felt like that then or now). Jalen clearly said hours after the grant hill stuff started that he felt that was as a 18 year old kid, not a 38 year old man.
 
They talking about this shit on Sports reporters now and obviously none of the reporters keep up on the news cause all of them kept saying (Jalen hasn't been clear whether he just felt like that then or now). Jalen clearly said hours after the grant hill stuff started that he felt that was as a 18 year old kid, not a 38 year old man.

Yeah, I don't understand why they want him to take back what he felt at 18 :confused:
 
I don't know, IMO in an effort to show that he wasn't a Tom, he looked like a Tom. It looked like he was piling on and was doing what they wanted him to do, and attack another black man.

It's like Clarence Thomas saying he gives to the UNCF.

If he would have come out and said, well those were his feelings at 18 and we all mature and feel differently. The story would have been done. He added legs to it.

He said that those comments were how he felt in his younger days. He tweeted that shortly after the whole drama started. Plus the documentary was about them in the past, not how they are now. You can hear when he answers the question that he says "I felt (not feel as in present tense) that they were uncle toms". Media and Grant Hill just took it out of context of the documentary and blew it up.
 
Hill looked like a bitch responding. All he had to do was stay quiet and live his life. Just because a nigga talk about you you dont havr to respind back. Hills actions was no better than a nigga coming back with a dissensions record. All his so called education/upbringing he still peddling in nigga mess.
 
:lol:

Only people with the same loser mentality as Jalen Rose consider Hill's brilliantly written response anything other than masterful and totally on-point. Defenders of the ignorant Rose are laughable, and only continue to prove how many misguided (and deeply envious) losers there are out there.
 
:yes: this article is fire and rich folks have this mentality in spades.

btw fuck Grant Hill that nigga proved he is a Tom by this dumb ass response to an 18 year old Jalen Rose's feelings - which proved to be correct.

nobody with an ounce of self-awareness as a black man in society would have written that NYT article. Hill is a perfect example of a black guy who thinks he's special due to what boarding schools he went to etc.
 
:lol:

Only people with the same loser mentality as Jalen Rose consider Hill's brilliantly written response anything other than masterful and totally on-point. Defenders of the ignorant Rose are laughable, and only continue to prove how many misguided (and deeply envious) losers there are out there.

Why would Jalen be envious of Hill on or off the court?:dunno:

At least Jalen got to compete in a Finals.
 
Finally, someone with some sense.
This is and the fact this matter is American is why I kept out of it, nevertheless, Grant Hill came off as pompous and self-righteous; what all the people who criticise Jalen Rose forget is that he has closed the gap with Grant Hill. He, like Hill, is worth tens of millions, and any resentment he might have felt as an underpriviledged freshman at Michigan has been wiped out by the success he has engineered in his life. The pompous rumblings of Grant Hill are as crude, funny and uncalled for as was his attempt to demonstrate how so well educated he is, by quoting Chaucer- what black man quotes Chaucer anyway? It was very clear in that arrogant letter that Grant was trying to perpetuate the same perceptions Jalen others had held when he was a freshman: Grant was priviledged and therefore better, Jalen was not.

I personally tend to judge people by what they have done rather than by where they were born. I lived in an apartment complex in the 1990s, where the mail man was from Baltimore, and had personally known Grant when he was a little boy. He recounted how the well-off Hill had been prepped at expensive basketball academies. His skills had been horned by expensive tutelage under the best coaches from the day he started playing. On the other hand, Jalen and his fab five colleagues learned their art at the local playgrounds of their neighbourhoods. The had to rise above adversity and the ferocious competition of many others who were as hungry and talented as they were. Along the way, they had to navigated temptations and pitfalls which Grant's sheltered upbringing never exposed him to. In they end, they reached the same place as the man's whose mother had shared a college dorm with the future first lady and Secretary of State of the USA.

It is because of the foregoing that I have to say that Weber, Howard and Rose have been more successful in life. They have travelled a much harder and longer road, but reached same, if not further, place than the aloof Hill who thinks his advantaged social status was impugned by a man recounting feelings from 20 years ago, and worse still, seems to believe that that gap and advantage still exists today.,

Fuck Grant Hill- Fab 5 then as now!
 
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Yes...Jalen felt that way at 18,which is where that shit should have stayed.

Putting Grant Hill's name out there now,he forced Hill to respond...and put in a no-win situation by some of you.

If Hill does not respond,some of you who are knocking him...would be making Grant Hill is a bitch posts,because he didn't respond.

Jalen served no purpose by bringing this up...well maybe one,more folks are talking about it.
 
:groupwave:groupwave:groupwave:groupwave:groupwave:dance2::dance2::dance2::dance2::dance2::dance2::dance2::dance2::dance2::groupwave:groupwave

somebody finally fucking gets it.......now lets put this shit to rest.....
 
And the division continues!:smh:

+10000000000000

with all the things going on in the world and united states .... we focusing on some basketball players he said she said nonsense?

If this ain't a distraction what is!!
 
:lol:

Only people with the same loser mentality as Jalen Rose consider Hill's brilliantly written response anything other than masterful and totally on-point. Defenders of the ignorant Rose are laughable, and only continue to prove how many misguided (and deeply envious) losers there are out there.


Fuck you. :lol: Grant Hill played himself and only bitch ass niggas who got their asses whipped (like Grant most likely) can "see" his point.
 
Yes...Jalen felt that way at 18,which is where that shit should have stayed.

Putting Grant Hill's name out there now,he forced Hill to respond...and put in a no-win situation by some of you.

If Hill does not respond,some of you who are knocking him...would be making Grant Hill is a bitch posts,because he didn't respond.

Jalen served no purpose by bringing this up...well maybe one,more folks are talking about it.


That's incorrect. Hill could have responded with something far more meaningful than that bullshit he wrote. He could have acknowledged the fact that he could understand why Jalen might have felt that way based on the time and environment that created him. No one would argue that. Instead, he behaved like a skinny kid who got picked on until he finally made it. He completely ignored the context in which the comments were made as well as who actually made them. You can tell by some of the comments made in BGOL that there are more than few folks who got their nerdy asses whipped and carry grudges today. They clearly had a flashback to running home screaming to momma.
 
That's incorrect. Hill could have responded with something far more meaningful than that bullshit he wrote. He could have acknowledged the fact that he could understand why Jalen might have felt that way based on the time and environment that created him. No one would argue that. Instead, he behaved like a skinny kid who got picked on until he finally made it. He completely ignored the context in which the comments were made as well as who actually made them. You can tell by some of the comments made in BGOL that there are more than few folks who got their nerdy asses whipped and carry grudges today. They clearly had a flashback to running home screaming to momma.

Exactly...he responded to an 18 y.o. Jalen as a 30+ y.o. man...shit is way blown out of proportion and the shit won't even that good to fuckin watch...The U is still the best 30 For 30 joint...and that UNLV doc was better imo
 
what I want someone to ask Grant, is what did Jalen say to him prior to it coming out.

Because if he felt that way now, he wouldn't have warned him.

If he said some shit like I said some bad things about you in my documentary, but don't be offended...then Grant Hill is a bitch plain and simple.
 
+10000000000000

with all the things going on in the world and united states .... we focusing on some basketball players he said she said nonsense?

If this ain't a distraction what is!!
it's only a distraction for the weak minded. and FYI, there is always some bullshit going on in the U.S. and the world as long as there are haves and have nots. Just because it's not on the 5 o'clock news doesn't mean that there is peace in the world :rolleyes: check out the political forum
 
I don't know, IMO in an effort to show that he wasn't a Tom, he looked like a Tom. It looked like he was piling on and was doing what they wanted him to do, and attack another black man.

It's like Clarence Thomas saying he gives to the UNCF.

If he would have come out and said, well those were his feelings at 18 and we all mature and feel differently. The story would have been done. He added legs to it.

C/S I wonde why Hill got so but hurt anyways. Like I said in a previous thread, if a person told me at 18 they thought I was uncle tom and concluded it with because I was jealous of you I couldn't even be mad at them.
 
Listen, Grant Hill Said what He said cause He still
was Hurt by what was said about Him & His team.
I would guess Rose Never said sorry or cleared
things up since then so it was fresh on Hill's mind.
Now that He did we can all move on.
However, Rose WAS WRONG TO BEGIN WITH.
We need to change that whole perception in our culture.


FYI - Hill Never said Rose talked about His FAMILY Directly
He said if you call Him an Uncle Tom You HAVE to be
talking bad about His Parents...who consequently raised Him



Hill is hurt by what rose said ? Did you watch the documentary or read the article?

Rose didn't say anything about Hill .

Rose did say specifically he was jealous of Grant Hill and his family.

Why did Hill think it was his duty to speak up for every black player ever at Duke ? Maybe because the rest of them understood what Rose was saying.

You going to insist Rose said something he didn't to fit what you think his response should have been

Damn you in the Tea Party? cause facts mean jack shit to you.
 
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They talking about this shit on Sports reporters now and obviously none of the reporters keep up on the news cause all of them kept saying (Jalen hasn't been clear whether he just felt like that then or now). Jalen clearly said hours after the grant hill stuff started that he felt that was as a 18 year old kid, not a 38 year old man.
yeah... that was some sad shit :smh:... not one of those reporters had seen Jalen talk about it. On ESPN:hmm:
 
yeah... that was some sad shit :smh:... not one of those reporters had seen Jalen talk about it. On ESPN:hmm:

Actually Jemele and Mike Hill have, and several others have also.

The writers I've seen go against it, are ones that probably got labeled a Tom themselves, i.e. Jason Whitlock.
 
For the love of God what took so long for someone in the mainstream media to speak some sense on this matter???!!! :dunno:
 
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