Open Letter to Conservatives

DeSiRe

The Get It Girl
BGOL Investor
great read....the actual article contains hyperlinks to everything they cite...love it:yes:

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.co...ad/2010/03/an-open-letter-to-conservative.php

Dear Conservative Americans,

The years have not been kind to you. I grew up in a profoundly Republican home, so I can remember when you wore a very different face than the one we see now. You've lost me and you've lost most of America. Because I believe having responsible choices is important to democracy, I'd like to give you some advice and an invitation.

First, the invitation: Come back to us.

Now the advice. You're going to have to come up with a platform that isn't built on a foundation of cowardice: fear of people with colors, religions, cultures and sex lives that differ from your own; fear of reform in banking, health care, energy; fantasy fears of America being transformed into an Islamic nation, into social/commun/fasc-ism, into a disarmed populace put in internment camps; and more. But you have work to do even before you take on that task.

Your party -- the GOP -- and the conservative end of the American political spectrum have become irresponsible and irrational. Worse, it's tolerating, promoting and celebrating prejudice and hatred. Let me provide some examples -- by no means an exhaustive list -- of where the Right as gotten itself stuck in a swamp of hypocrisy, hyperbole, historical inaccuracy and hatred.

If you're going to regain your stature as a party of rational, responsible people, you'll have to start by draining this swamp:

Hypocrisy

You can't flip out -- and threaten impeachment - when Dems use a parliamentary procedure (deem and pass) that you used repeatedly (more than 35 times in just one session and more than 100 times in all!), that's centuries old and which the courts have supported. Especially when your leaders admit it all.

You can't vote and scream against the stimulus package and then take credit for the good it's done in your own district (happily handing out enormous checks representing money that you voted against, is especially ugly) -- 114 of you (at last count) did just that -- and it's even worse when you secretly beg for more.


You can't fight against your own ideas just because the Dem president endorses your proposal.

You can't call for a pay-as-you-go policy, and then vote against your own ideas.

Are they "unlawful enemy combatants" or are they "prisoners of war" at Gitmo? You can't have it both ways.

You can't carry on about the evils of government spending when your family has accepted more than a quarter-million dollars in government handouts.

You can't refuse to go to a scheduled meeting, to which you were invited, and then blame the Dems because they didn't meet with you.

You can't rail against using teleprompters while using teleprompters. Repeatedly.

You can't rail against the bank bailouts when you supported them as they were happening.

You can't be for immigration reform, then against it .

You can't enjoy socialized medicine while condemning it.

You can't flip out when the black president puts his feet on the presidential desk when you were silent about white presidents doing the same. Bush. Ford.

You can't complain that the president hasn't closed Gitmo yet when you've campaigned to keep Gitmo open.

You can't flip out when the black president bows to foreign dignitaries, as appropriate for their culture, when you were silent when the white presidents did the same. Bush. Nixon. Ike. You didn't even make a peep when Bush held hands and kissed (on the mouth) leaders of countries that are not on "kissing terms" with the US.

You can't complain that the undies bomber was read his Miranda rights under Obama when the shoe bomber was read his Miranda rights under Bush and you remained silent. (And, no, Newt -- the shoe bomber was not a US citizen either, so there is no difference.)

You can't attack the Dem president for not personally* publicly condemning a terrorist event for 72 hours when you said nothing about the Rep president waiting 6 days in an eerily similar incident (and, even then, he didn't issue any condemnation). *Obama administration did the day of the event.

You can't throw a hissy fit, sound alarms and cry that Obama freed Gitmo prisoners who later helped plan the Christmas Day undie bombing, when -- in fact -- only one former Gitmo detainee, released by Dick Cheney and George W. Bush, helped to plan the failed attack.

You can't condemn blaming the Republican president for an attempted terror attack on his watch, then blame the Dem president for an attempted terror attack on his.

You can't mount a boycott against singers who say they're ashamed of the president for starting a war, but remain silent when another singer says he's ashamed of the president and falsely calls him a Maoist who makes him want to throw up and says he ought to be in jail.

You can't cry that the health care bill is too long, then cry that it's too short.

You can't support the individual mandate for health insurance, then call it unconstitutional when Dems propose it and campaign against your own ideas.

You can't demand television coverage, then whine about it when you get it. Repeatedly.

You can't praise criminal trials in US courts for terror suspects under a Rep president, then call it "treasonous" under a Dem president.

You can't propose ideas to create jobs, and then work against them when the Dems put your ideas in a bill.

You can't be both pro-choice and anti-choice.

You can't damn someone for failing to pay $900 in taxes when you've paid nearly $20,000 in IRS fines.

You can't condemn criticizing the president when US troops are in harms way, then attack the president when US troops are in harms way , the only difference being the president's party affiliation (and, by the way, armed conflict does NOT remove our right and our duty as Americans to speak up).

You can't be both for cap-and-trade policy and against it.

You can't vote to block debate on a bill, then bemoan the lack of 'open debate'.

If you push anti-gay legislation and make anti-gay speeches, you should probably take a pass on having gay sex, regardless of whether it's 2004 or 2010. This is true, too, if you're taking GOP money and giving anti-gay rants on CNN. Taking right-wing money and GOP favors to write anti-gay stories for news sites while working as a gay prostitute, doubles down on both the hypocrisy and the prostitution. This is especially true if you claim your anti-gay stand is God's stand, too.

When you chair the House Caucus on Missing and Exploited Children, you can't send sexy emails to 16-year-old boys (illegal anyway, but you made it hypocritical as well).

You can't criticize Dems for not doing something you didn't do while you held power over the past 16 years, especially when the Dems have done more in one year than you did in 16.

You can't decry "name calling" when you've been the most consistent and outrageous at it. And the most vile.

You can't spend more than 40 years hating, cutting and trying to kill Medicare, and then pretend to be the defenders of Medicare

You can't praise the Congressional Budget Office when it's analysis produces numbers that fit your political agenda, then claim it's unreliable when it comes up with numbers that don't.

You can't vote for X under a Republican president, then vote against X under a Democratic president. Either you support X or you don't. And it makes it worse when you change your position merely for the sake obstructionism.

You can't call a reconciliation out of bounds when you used it repeatedly.

You can't spend taxpayer money on ads against spending taxpayer money.

You can't condemn individual health insurance mandates in a Dem bill, when the mandates were your idea.

You can't demand everyone listen to the generals when they say what fits your agenda, and then ignore them when they don't.

You can't whine that it's unfair when people accuse you of exploiting racism for political gain, when your party's former leader admits you've been doing it for decades.

You can't portray yourself as fighting terrorists when you openly and passionately support terrorists.

You can't complain about a lack of bipartisanship when you've routinely obstructed for the sake of political gain -- threatening to filibuster at least 100 pieces of legislation in one session, far more than any other since the procedural tactic was invented -- and admitted it. Some admissions are unintentional, others are made proudly. This is especially true when the bill is the result of decades of compromise between the two parties and is filled with your own ideas.

You can't question the loyalty of Department of Justice lawyers when you didn't object when your own Republican president appointed them.

You can't preach and try to legislate "Family Values" when you: take nude hot tub dips with teenagers (and pay them hush money); cheat on your wife with a secret lover and lie about it to the world; cheat with a staffer's wife (and pay them off with a new job); pay hookers for sex while wearing a diaper and cheating on your wife; or just enjoying an old fashioned non-kinky cheating on your wife; try to have gay sex in a public toilet; authorize the rape of children in Iraqi prisons to coerce their parents into providing information; seek, look at or have sex with children; replace a guy who cheats on his wife with a guy who cheats on his pregnant wife with his wife's mother;[/]b

Hyperbole

You really need to disassociate with those among you who:

* assert that people making a quarter-million dollars a year can barely make ends meet or that $1 million "isn't a lot of money";
* say that "Comrade" Obama is a "Bolshevik" who is "taking cues from Lenin";
* ignore the many times your buddies use a term that offends you and complain only when a Dem says it;
* liken political opponents to murderers, rapists, and "this Muslim guy" that "offed his wife's head" or call then "un-American";
* say Obama "wants his plan to fail...so that he can make the case for bank nationalization and vindicate his dream of a socialist economy";
* equate putting the good of the people ahead of your personal fortunes with terrorism;
* smear an entire major religion with the actions of a few fanatics;
* say that the president wants to "annihilate us";
* compare health care reform with the bombing of Pearl Harbor, a Bolshevik plot the attack on 9/11,or reviving the ghosts of communist dictators (update: it's also not Armageddon);
* equate our disease-fighting stem cell research with "what the Nazis did";
* call a bill passed by the majority of both houses of Congress, by members of Congress each elected by a majority in their districts, an unconscionable abuse of power, a violation of the presidential oath or "the end of representative government";
* shout "baby killer" at a member of Congress on the floor of the House, especially one who so fought against abortion rights that he nearly killed health care reform (in fact, a little decorum, a little respect for our national institutions and the people and the values they represent, would be refreshing -- cut out the shouting, the swearing and the obscenities);
* prove your machismo by claiming your going to "crash a party" to which you're officially invited;
* claim that Obama is pushing America's "submission to Shariah";
* question the patriotism of people upholding cherished American values and the rule of law;
* claim the president is making us less safe without a hint of evidence;
* call a majority vote the "tyranny of the minority," even if you meant to call it tyranny of the majority -- it's democracy, not tyranny;
* call the president's support of a criminal trial for a terror suspect "treasonous" (especially when you supported the same thing when the president shared your party);
* call the Pope the anti-Christ;
* assert that the constitutionally mandated census is an attempt to enslave us;
* accuse opponents of being backed by Arab slave-drivers or of being drunk and suicidal;
* equate family planning with eugenics or Nazism;
* accuse the president of changing the missile defense program's logo to match his campaign logo and reflect what you say is his secret Muslim identity;
* accuse political opponents of being totalitarians, socialists, communists, fascists, Marxists; terrorist sympathizers, McCarthy-like, Nazis or drug pushers; and
* advocate a traitorous act like secession, violent revolution , military coup or civil war (just so we're clear: sedition is a bad thing).

History

If you're going to use words like socialism, communism and fascism, you must have at least a basic understanding of what those words mean (hint: they're NOT synonymous!)

You can't cut a leading Founding Father out the history books because you've decided you don't like his ideas.

You cant repeatedly assert that the president refuses to say the word "terrorism" or say we're at war with terror when we have an awful lot of videotape showing him repeatedly assailing terrorism and using those exact words.

If you're going to invoke the names of historical figures, it does not serve you well to whitewash them. Especially this one.

You can't just pretend historical events didn't happen in an effort to make a political opponent look dishonest or to make your side look better. Especially these events. (And, no, repeating it doesn't make it better.)

You can't say things that are simply and demonstrably false: health care reform will not push people out of their private insurance and into a government-run program ; health care reform (which contains a good many of your ideas and very few from the Left) is a long way from "socialist utopia"; health care reform is not "reparations"; nor does health care reform create "death panels".

Hatred

You have to condemn those among you who:

* call members of Congress n*gger and f*ggot;
* elected leaders who say "I'm a proud racist";
* state that America has been built by white people;
* say that poor people are poor because they're rotten people, call them "parasitic garbage" or say they shouldn't be allowed to vote;
* call women bitches and prostitutes just because you don't like their politics ( re - pea -ted - ly );
* assert that the women who are serving our nation in uniform are hookers;
* mock and celebrate the death of a grandmother because you disagree with her son's politics;
* declare that those who disagree with you are shown by that disagreement to be not just "Marxist radicals" but also monsters and a deadly disease killing the nation (this would fit in the hyperbole and history categories, too);
* joke about blindness;
* advocate euthanizing the wife of your political opponent;
* taunt people with incurable, life-threatening diseases -- especially if you do it on a syndicated broadcast;
* equate gay love with bestiality -- involving horses or dogs or turtles or ducks -- or polygamy, child molestation, pedophilia;
* casually assume that only white males look "like a real American";
* assert presidential power to authorize torture, torture a child by having his testicles crushed in front of his parents to get them to talk, order the massacre of a civilian village and launch a nuclear attack without the consent of Congress;
* attack children whose mothers have died;
* call people racists without producing a shred of evidence that they've said or done something that would even smell like racism -- same for invoking racially charged "dog whistle" words (repeatedly);
* condemn the one thing that every major religion agrees on;
* complain that we no longer employ the tactics we once used to disenfranchise millions of Americans because of their race;
* blame the victims of natural disasters and terrorist attacks for their suffering and losses;
* celebrate violence , joke about violence, prepare for violence or use violent imagery, "fun" political violence, hints of violence, threats of violence (this one is rather explicit), suggestions of violence or actual violence (and, really, suggesting anal rape with a hot piece of metal is beyond the pale); and
* incite insurrection telling people to get their guns ready for a "bloody battle" with the president of the United States.

Oh, and I'm not alone: One of your most respected and decorated leaders agrees with me.

So, dear conservatives, get to work. Drain the swamp of the conspiracy nuts, the bold-faced liars undeterred by demonstrable facts, the overt hypocrisy and the hatred. Then offer us a calm, responsible, grownup agenda based on your values and your vision for America. We may or may not agree with your values and vision, but we'll certainly welcome you back to the American mainstream with open arms. We need you.

(Anticipating your initial response: No there is nothing that even comes close to this level of wingnuttery on the American Left.)
 
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Thanks Missy; you did a great job posting the Hypocrisy, Hyperbole,
History & Hatred. I'm framing it just below so that the links are available
so that readers can see for themselves whether they stand for what the
author says they stand for.

QueEx

</font size>


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I find it funny when its about fear now, but when Bush wanted to reform SOCIAL SECURITY, everyone on the left scared the shit out of the seniors. Didn't people used to use scare tactics talking about Bush is going to reinstate the Draft?

Oh yea, all the swine flu bullshit, Tarp fund, oh yea the FUCKING STIMULUS. The same stimulus that suppose to stop JOB loss. Didn't Obama promise under 9 percent unemployment?

Hmmmm how about NOT needing a fucking health care bill? I wonder how many jobs its going to make? OH yea, I hear the pseudo-SS IRS is hiring 16,000 more agents to "enforce" health care reform.

Not to mention, his *Obama's* promise to "make" more jobs. How do you claim that you want to make more jobs, however, you want to limit jobs from Big Business? I swear that sounds like an oxymoron. If you don't believe me, go watch the State of the Union again. Yet, you want to write fucking open letters to conservatives, claiming, that we are the ones in the WRONG.

YOU HAVE TO BE FUCKING KIDDING ME...

*notice I'm using the F word more since Biden can use it during a big event...near an open mic*

To the writer of this FUCKING letter, please get your FUCKING head out your FUCKING ass, and look at what the FUCK is going on. This isn't about FUCKING RACE, this is about the situation that's going on in EVERY FUCKING STATE. WE ARE IN A FUCKING RECESSION, and Obama do not give a FUCK about creating an atmosphere for OPPORTUNITY. In fact, Obama do not care about creating jobs. YEA I FUCKING SAID IT!!! If he wanted to create jobs, he would just lower spending, and taxes. WE all know that shit. Even democrats know that this works. Yet, fuckhead WOULD NOT do the shit.

So basically.....

FUCK OBAMA

FUCK PELOSI

FUCK REID

FUCK ANYONE WHO BELIEVES THEIR BULLSHIT

AND FUCK YOU the writer for spewing this bullshit...

BTW, I'm black, and really don't give a fuck what y'all think of me....

*goes back to sleep...*
 
I find it funny when its about fear now, but when Bush wanted to reform SOCIAL SECURITY, everyone on the left scared the shit out of the seniors. Didn't people used to use scare tactics talking about Bush is going to reinstate the Draft?

Oh yea, all the swine flu bullshit, Tarp fund, oh yea the FUCKING STIMULUS. The same stimulus that suppose to stop JOB loss. Didn't Obama promise under 9 percent unemployment?

Hmmmm how about NOT needing a fucking health care bill? I wonder how many jobs its going to make? OH yea, I hear the pseudo-SS IRS is hiring 16,000 more agents to "enforce" health care reform.

Not to mention, his *Obama's* promise to "make" more jobs. How do you claim that you want to make more jobs, however, you want to limit jobs from Big Business? I swear that sounds like an oxymoron. If you don't believe me, go watch the State of the Union again. Yet, you want to write fucking open letters to conservatives, claiming, that we are the ones in the WRONG.

YOU HAVE TO BE FUCKING KIDDING ME...

*notice I'm using the F word more since Biden can use it during a big event...near an open mic*

To the writer of this FUCKING letter, please get your FUCKING head out your FUCKING ass, and look at what the FUCK is going on. This isn't about FUCKING RACE, this is about the situation that's going on in EVERY FUCKING STATE. WE ARE IN A FUCKING RECESSION, and Obama do not give a FUCK about creating an atmosphere for OPPORTUNITY. In fact, Obama do not care about creating jobs. YEA I FUCKING SAID IT!!! If he wanted to create jobs, he would just lower spending, and taxes. WE all know that shit. Even democrats know that this works. Yet, fuckhead WOULD NOT do the shit.

So basically.....

FUCK OBAMA

FUCK PELOSI

FUCK REID

FUCK ANYONE WHO BELIEVES THEIR BULLSHIT

AND FUCK YOU the writer for spewing this bullshit...

BTW, I'm black, and really don't give a fuck what y'all think of me....

*goes back to sleep...*

*notice I'm using the F word more since Biden can use it during a big event...near an open mic*


[flash]http://www.youtube.com/v/dYY1oDDYS18&hl=en_US&fs=1&[/flash]

BTW, I'm black

are you?

draft_lens2391946module13590246photo_1232756014Annex_-_Crosby_Bing_Dixie_01.jpg
 
I find it funny when its about fear now, but when Bush wanted to reform SOCIAL SECURITY, everyone on the left scared the shit out of the seniors. Didn't people used to use scare tactics talking about Bush is going to reinstate the Draft?

Oh yea, all the swine flu bullshit, Tarp fund, oh yea the FUCKING STIMULUS. The same stimulus that suppose to stop JOB loss. Didn't Obama promise under 9 percent unemployment?

Hmmmm how about NOT needing a fucking health care bill? I wonder how many jobs its going to make? OH yea, I hear the pseudo-SS IRS is hiring 16,000 more agents to "enforce" health care reform.

Not to mention, his *Obama's* promise to "make" more jobs. How do you claim that you want to make more jobs, however, you want to limit jobs from Big Business? I swear that sounds like an oxymoron. If you don't believe me, go watch the State of the Union again. Yet, you want to write fucking open letters to conservatives, claiming, that we are the ones in the WRONG.

YOU HAVE TO BE FUCKING KIDDING ME...

*notice I'm using the F word more since Biden can use it during a big event...near an open mic*

To the writer of this FUCKING letter, please get your FUCKING head out your FUCKING ass, and look at what the FUCK is going on. This isn't about FUCKING RACE, this is about the situation that's going on in EVERY FUCKING STATE. WE ARE IN A FUCKING RECESSION, and Obama do not give a FUCK about creating an atmosphere for OPPORTUNITY. In fact, Obama do not care about creating jobs. YEA I FUCKING SAID IT!!! If he wanted to create jobs, he would just lower spending, and taxes. WE all know that shit. Even democrats know that this works. Yet, fuckhead WOULD NOT do the shit.

So basically.....

FUCK OBAMA

FUCK PELOSI

FUCK REID

FUCK ANYONE WHO BELIEVES THEIR BULLSHIT

AND FUCK YOU the writer for spewing this bullshit...

BTW, I'm black, and really don't give a fuck what y'all think of me....

*goes back to sleep...*


Triple A
This is one of the most nonsensical rants you ever posted that had little to no foundation in truth and didn't refute the OP at all. I thought the letter was about conservative hypocrisy, not race.
I'm on the way out right now but I'll point out where you're wrong in about 30-45 minutes.
 
I find it funny when its about fear now, but when Bush wanted to reform SOCIAL SECURITY, everyone on the left scared the shit out of the seniors. Didn't people used to use scare tactics talking about Bush is going to reinstate the Draft?
Bush wanted to take Social Security and create individual accounts and tie them to the stock market. Seeing how people's 401k plans have been doing the last two years, I think people should have been afraid and rightfully fought against it.

Oh yea, all the swine flu bullshit, Tarp fund, oh yea the FUCKING STIMULUS. The same stimulus that suppose to stop JOB loss. Didn't Obama promise under 9 percent unemployment?

H1N1 didn't become an even worse situation due to preemptive action taken by the government including diseminating relevant information in a timely fashion and working with the Big Pharma to get out vaccines. The only "scare tactics" were used by those that decided to believe that swine flu was another way to control population growth and those kooks aren't Left or Right.
TARP was created by Bush so take that beef up with him. If anything, the Obama Administration is the one that tried to add some strings and conditions to it retroactively since Bush and Hank Paulson just cut checks.
The Stimulus has slowed considerably job loss and every independent economic indicator is headed in a positive direction since it's passage. The President didn't promise that unemployment would stay under 8 percent but he estimated that it would. Since then he has said they underestimated how deep a hole we were really in.


Hmmmm how about NOT needing a fucking health care bill? I wonder how many jobs its going to make? OH yea, I hear the pseudo-SS IRS is hiring 16,000 more agents to "enforce" health care reform.

Not to mention, his *Obama's* promise to "make" more jobs. How do you claim that you want to make more jobs, however, you want to limit jobs from Big Business? I swear that sounds like an oxymoron. If you don't believe me, go watch the State of the Union again. Yet, you want to write fucking open letters to conservatives, claiming, that we are the ones in the WRONG.
If the IRS is going to hire 16,000 new agents, isn't that creating jobs?
We absolutely needed a health care bill, at least 37 years ago when Nixon tried to pass one and he wasn't even the first, just the last Republican. When you talk about our economy and jobs, one of the drags on our economy is our health care system. We're competing with countries with fully subsidized health care for it's citizens while here thousands file bankruptcy every day due to medical bills.
The problem I've had from the beginning of the process was that we weren't going for Single Payer and taking the burden completely off businesses when it comes to employee health benefits. Of course it would have to paid for in taxes but it would end up cheaper in the end than the system we have now, which has grown from 5% of our GDP to 17% and was projected to become 20% if nothing was done.

YOU HAVE TO BE FUCKING KIDDING ME...

*notice I'm using the F word more since Biden can use it during a big event...near an open mic*

So you're a Biden fan or something? He was whispering in the President's ear not speaking into the mic. And it is a big fucking deal.

To the writer of this FUCKING letter, please get your FUCKING head out your FUCKING ass, and look at what the FUCK is going on. This isn't about FUCKING RACE, this is about the situation that's going on in EVERY FUCKING STATE. WE ARE IN A FUCKING RECESSION, and Obama do not give a FUCK about creating an atmosphere for OPPORTUNITY. In fact, Obama do not care about creating jobs. YEA I FUCKING SAID IT!!! If he wanted to create jobs, he would just lower spending, and taxes. WE all know that shit. Even democrats know that this works. Yet, fuckhead WOULD NOT do the shit.

Sane economists know that when the private sector isn't spending, gov't has to, so cutting spending now would only deepen the recession (which is technically over). And he has lowered taxes on the middle class, just as he promised. Hell, he decided to just let the Bush tax cuts expire instead of repealing them outright so what other taxes is he supposed to cut?
Explain to me how you read that letter and thought it was about "race". There was very little about race in the whole thing and that was more about people's behaviors than what they felt or believed.

So basically.....

FUCK OBAMA

FUCK PELOSI

FUCK REID

FUCK ANYONE WHO BELIEVES THEIR BULLSHIT

AND FUCK YOU the writer for spewing this bullshit...

BTW, I'm black, and really don't give a fuck what y'all think of me....

*goes back to sleep...*

You're ethnicity is completely irrelevant.
 
Dave, I promise I will respond to this: I'm not defendin AAA but :( I just have a different angle, Gotta run but let me leave y'all with this

We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false. - William Casey, CIA Director
 
Bush wanted to take Social Security and create individual accounts and tie them to the stock market. Seeing how people's 401k plans have been doing the last two years, I think people should have been afraid and rightfully fought against it.



H1N1 didn't become an even worse situation due to preemptive action taken by the government including diseminating relevant information in a timely fashion and working with the Big Pharma to get out vaccines. The only "scare tactics" were used by those that decided to believe that swine flu was another way to control population growth and those kooks aren't Left or Right.
TARP was created by Bush so take that beef up with him. If anything, the Obama Administration is the one that tried to add some strings and conditions to it retroactively since Bush and Hank Paulson just cut checks.
The Stimulus has slowed considerably job loss and every independent economic indicator is headed in a positive direction since it's passage. The President didn't promise that unemployment would stay under 8 percent but he estimated that it would. Since then he has said they underestimated how deep a hole we were really in.



If the IRS is going to hire 16,000 new agents, isn't that creating jobs?
We absolutely needed a health care bill, at least 37 years ago when Nixon tried to pass one and he wasn't even the first, just the last Republican. When you talk about our economy and jobs, one of the drags on our economy is our health care system. We're competing with countries with fully subsidized health care for it's citizens while here thousands file bankruptcy every day due to medical bills.
The problem I've had from the beginning of the process was that we weren't going for Single Payer and taking the burden completely off businesses when it comes to employee health benefits. Of course it would have to paid for in taxes but it would end up cheaper in the end than the system we have now, which has grown from 5% of our GDP to 17% and was projected to become 20% if nothing was done.



So you're a Biden fan or something? He was whispering in the President's ear not speaking into the mic. And it is a big fucking deal.



Sane economists know that when the private sector isn't spending, gov't has to, so cutting spending now would only deepen the recession (which is technically over). And he has lowered taxes on the middle class, just as he promised. Hell, he decided to just let the Bush tax cuts expire instead of repealing them outright so what other taxes is he supposed to cut?
Explain to me how you read that letter and thought it was about "race". There was very little about race in the whole thing and that was more about people's behaviors than what they felt or believed.



You're ethnicity is completely irrelevant.

Lets just agree to disagree on this one..

The point of me responding to this thread is because I wanted to point out that both sides do "scare tactics".

I do find it funny that you didn't mention the rise of the stock market DURING Bush's term. I guess it didn't fit the theme of your response. BTW, who to say the stock market would of did what it did in 07? OH wait, the economy start going down when most of this board voted the democrats into congress. The same democrats that's raising the deficit under Obama's watch. Yea, I know Dave, you cannot blame the D's for anything, right?
 
H1N1 didn't become an even worse situation due to preemptive action taken by the government including diseminating relevant information in a timely fashion and working with the Big Pharma to get out vaccines. The only "scare tactics" were used by those that decided to believe that swine flu was another way to control population growth and those kooks aren't Left or Right. .

http://thenorthwestherald.blogspot.com/2010/02/how-many-people-per-country-took-h1n1.html

USA bought 195 million doses of the vaccine – 4 out of 5 refused “preemptive action taken by the govt”. Please follow the link, you’ll find that the World didn’t buy this scam. Magically, this is the lightest flu season in recent history. They used fear to sell some vaccines dawg

TARP was created by Bush so take that beef up with him. If anything, the Obama Administration is the one that tried to add some strings and conditions to it retroactively since Bush and Hank Paulson just cut checks.

BS! http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/31/tarp-watchdog-neil-barofs_n_443489.html
TARP Watchdog Neil Barofsky: Govt Bailout Has Increased Risk Of Financial Crisis

The problems that led to the last crisis have not yet been addressed, and in some cases have grown worse, says Neil Barofsky, the special inspector general for the trouble asset relief program, or TARP.

The Stimulus has slowed considerably job loss and every independent economic indicator is headed in a positive direction since it's passage. The President didn't promise that unemployment would stay under 8 percent but he estimated that it would. Since then he has said they underestimated how deep a hole we were really in.

Every independent economic indicator? The stimulus is really a depressant. It will have the same effects as a shot of heroin to a fiend. It feels good right now but once it’s gone, it will leave the patient in a much worse condition

If the IRS is going to hire 16,000 new agents, isn't that creating jobs?

People don’t want jobs just to have a job, they want jobs for the purchasing power that a capitalistic / innovative economy brings them. Remember, everyone in the Soviet Union had a job…………….but they were broke as hell ! ! ! !

We absolutely needed a health care bill, at least 37 years ago when Nixon tried to pass one and he wasn't even the first, just the last Republican. When you talk about our economy and jobs, one of the drags on our economy is our health care system. We're competing with countries with fully subsidized health care for it's citizens while here thousands file bankruptcy every day due to medical bills.

The problem I've had from the beginning of the process was that we weren't going for Single Payer and taking the burden completely off businesses when it comes to employee health benefits. Of course it would have to paid for in taxes but it would end up cheaper in the end than the system we have now, which has grown from 5% of our GDP to 17% and was projected to become 20% if nothing was done.

True, we all agreed that reform was needed but true reform would’ve provided a model that increased competition amongst doctors, thereby stripping some of the powers away from Big Insurance. In an analogy with car insurance: Think about how much oil changes would be if they were mandated by car insurance companies. Take away the ins. mandates and competition would emerge between providers.

Sane economists know that when the private sector isn't spending, gov't has to, so cutting spending now would only deepen the recession (which is technically over).

I didn’t know Bernanke was lurkin on BGOL! :D

Spending cuts are exactly what is needed, Have you seen our tax receipts vs. our tax expenditures? When you’re in a hole, the first thing you need to do is STOP DIGGING. At some point, the policy must change. We can no longer borrow to consume products that we didn’t make. It should be looked at as a good thing that the private sector isn’t spending, sometimes medicine tastes nasty but it needs to be taken. Also, you will come to understand that Geithner & Bernanke are just tryin to re-inflate a “bubble”, sad part is, Obama will get the blame.

Govt has to? Govts. can’t create wealth. They only confiscate it through interest on your debt, income taxes & inflation

We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false. - William Casey, CIA Director
 
http://thenorthwestherald.blogspot.com/2010/02/how-many-people-per-country-took-h1n1.html

USA bought 195 million doses of the vaccine – 4 out of 5 refused “preemptive action taken by the govt”. Please follow the link, you’ll find that the World didn’t buy this scam. Magically, this is the lightest flu season in recent history. They used fear to sell some vaccines dawg



BS! http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/31/tarp-watchdog-neil-barofs_n_443489.html
TARP Watchdog Neil Barofsky: Govt Bailout Has Increased Risk Of Financial Crisis





Every independent economic indicator? The stimulus is really a depressant. It will have the same effects as a shot of heroin to a fiend. It feels good right now but once it’s gone, it will leave the patient in a much worse condition



People don’t want jobs just to have a job, they want jobs for the purchasing power that a capitalistic / innovative economy brings them. Remember, everyone in the Soviet Union had a job…………….but they were broke as hell ! ! ! !



True, we all agreed that reform was needed but true reform would’ve provided a model that increased competition amongst doctors, thereby stripping some of the powers away from Big Insurance. In an analogy with car insurance: Think about how much oil changes would be if they were mandated by car insurance companies. Take away the ins. mandates and competition would emerge between providers.



I didn’t know Bernanke was lurkin on BGOL! :D

Spending cuts are exactly what is needed, Have you seen our tax receipts vs. our tax expenditures? When you’re in a hole, the first thing you need to do is STOP DIGGING. At some point, the policy must change. We can no longer borrow to consume products that we didn’t make. It should be looked at as a good thing that the private sector isn’t spending, sometimes medicine tastes nasty but it needs to be taken. Also, you will come to understand that Geithner & Bernanke are just tryin to re-inflate a “bubble”, sad part is, Obama will get the blame.

Govt has to? Govts. can’t create wealth. They only confiscate it through interest on your debt, income taxes & inflation

We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false. - William Casey, CIA Director

I know we don't agree on everything, but its nice to see that we're on the same page on this one...
 
I find it funny when its about fear now, but when Bush wanted to reform SOCIAL SECURITY, everyone on the left scared the shit out of the seniors. Didn't people used to use scare tactics talking about Bush is going to reinstate the Draft?

Bush wanted to privatize Social Security and move it to the fucking stock market!!! If he was successful, It would of been a friggin disaster for the entire country. Also keep in mind he was fighting for this as signs of the coming crash were apparent. If there was 1 thing the Dems should of stood up and fought for during that time THAT WAS IT! :smh:

Oh yea, all the swine flu bullshit, Tarp fund, oh yea the FUCKING STIMULUS. The same stimulus that suppose to stop JOB loss. Didn't Obama promise under 9 percent unemployment?

You have no clue what you are talking about. Prior to the stimulus we were losing hundreds of thousands of jobs on an almost weekly basis. As soon as the stimulus was introduced, the losses slowed down and have at this point stabilized.

Blog_Road_Recovery.jpg



Hmmmm how about NOT needing a fucking health care bill? I wonder how many jobs its going to make? OH yea, I hear the pseudo-SS IRS is hiring 16,000 more agents to "enforce" health care reform.

I'm tired of having this debate with Republicans and other people with views similar to yours. To say Health Care Reform was not needed and assuming it will not create jobs is BEYOND SHORT-SIGHTED. Our country will be better off moving forward because of this, and to support 30 million + additional paying customers, various industries in Health Care will see growth because of this.

Not to mention, his *Obama's* promise to "make" more jobs. How do you claim that you want to make more jobs, however, you want to limit jobs from Big Business? I swear that sounds like an oxymoron. If you don't believe me, go watch the State of the Union again. Yet, you want to write fucking open letters to conservatives, claiming, that we are the ones in the WRONG.

Over the past couple months Obama has been trying to pass a Jobs bill, the Republicans (and some Dems) fought it and stripped it down drastically. Keep in mind his first year in Office (in relation to jobs) was focused on stopping the bleeding. He accomplished this. So for now I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, that he can make some strides in creating jobs. Given he has 3 years to make this happen.

*notice I'm using the F word more since Biden can use it during a big event...near an open mic*

C'mon dude, its friggen Biden. WE ALL KNOW HE IS A "FUCKING" GAFFE MACHINE. Even before he was nominated as VP (personally, him not holding his tongue is what I like about him, but thats just me).

To the writer of this FUCKING letter, please get your FUCKING head out your FUCKING ass, and look at what the FUCK is going on. This isn't about FUCKING RACE, this is about the situation that's going on in EVERY FUCKING STATE. WE ARE IN A FUCKING RECESSION, and Obama do not give a FUCK about creating an atmosphere for OPPORTUNITY. In fact, Obama do not care about creating jobs. YEA I FUCKING SAID IT!!! If he wanted to create jobs, he would just lower spending, and taxes. WE all know that shit. Even democrats know that this works. Yet, fuckhead WOULD NOT do the shit.

Lowering spending and cutting taxes during a recession will do the exact opposite of stimulating the economy and creating jobs. This has been covered by countless economist and was the sole reason behind the creation of the stimulus package. Now keep in mind, I agree more needs to be done to create jobs, however its something that has to be attacked from all fronts. You cant approach this problem with nothing but spending freezes/tax cuts and expect things to get better. With that being said, this is where our President and ALL ELECTED officials need to get on the ball, stop bickering, work together and get things done. Up until now, all we've been getting from the Republicans is NO NO NO NO NO, to EVERYTHING THAT OBAMA proposes. That shit needs to stop! And BTW look at what is in the jobs bill, its full of tax cuts, tax credits, incentives, etc. for business to hire people. However keep in mind, banks need to give out loans to businesses, the population (especially the middle class) need to spend money, etc. etc.. The problem and solution are A LOT and more complicated than what you seem capable of comprehending. And keep in mind, this is only the information that the public is aware of. I'm sure behind closed doors shit is 10x worse, and will become completely fucked if 10-20 years from now if things like Health Care, Energy, Banking, etc. arent fixed now (since we cant continue invading other countries to keep us afloat).
 
Lets just agree to disagree on this one..

The point of me responding to this thread is because I wanted to point out that both sides do "scare tactics".
I do find it funny that you didn't mention the rise of the stock market DURING Bush's term. I guess it didn't fit the theme of your response. BTW, who to say the stock market would of did what it did in 07? OH wait, the economy start going down when most of this board voted the democrats into congress. The same democrats that's raising the deficit under Obama's watch. Yea, I know Dave, you cannot blame the D's for anything, right?

You didn't actually respond to the letter just rant nearly incoherently.
The stock market did go up, that's called a "bubble". It burst. Another incoherent post from you.

http://thenorthwestherald.blogspot.com/2010/02/how-many-people-per-country-took-h1n1.html

USA bought 195 million doses of the vaccine – 4 out of 5 refused “preemptive action taken by the govt”. Please follow the link, you’ll find that the World didn’t buy this scam. Magically, this is the lightest flu season in recent history. They used fear to sell some vaccines dawg

I have no doubt that was part of it but h1n1 is/was real and people were getting sick and dying. I didn't get the vaccine and neither did my wife or son because we weren't in the high risk group that h1n1 was fatal too. This administration seemed determined it was better to overreact than to underreact and let this become his "Katrina". As it was, they caught heat by reckless critics for slow response.



BS! http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/31/tarp-watchdog-neil-barofs_n_443489.html
TARP Watchdog Neil Barofsky: Govt Bailout Has Increased Risk Of Financial Crisis
TARP wasn't created by Bush Admin? They didn't just cut checks with no conditions?
Interesting article but to say the bailout has increased financial crisis when a financial crisis is exactly what prompted the bailout is a strange argument.
Nearly 30 years of overly big business friendly government policies (Democratic and Republican administrations both)set up a system where many financial institutions became too big to allow to fail. The bailout is less the problem and the method of it's implementation is/was.



Every independent economic indicator? The stimulus is really a depressant. It will have the same effects as a shot of heroin to a fiend. It feels good right now but once it’s gone, it will leave the patient in a much worse condition

We'll see. So far, it's going well. It may get better and it may get worse but not doing anything would have been the wrong answer.



People don’t want jobs just to have a job, they want jobs for the purchasing power that a capitalistic / innovative economy brings them. Remember, everyone in the Soviet Union had a job…………….but they were broke as hell ! ! ! !

I was being sarcastic with the IRS jobs but I doubt they'll have a hard time filling those positions.


True, we all agreed that reform was needed but true reform would’ve provided a model that increased competition amongst doctors, thereby stripping some of the powers away from Big Insurance. In an analogy with car insurance: Think about how much oil changes would be if they were mandated by car insurance companies. Take away the ins. mandates and competition would emerge between providers.

There are good analogies to be made with car insurance but brother that ain't one. Oil changes are mandatory just to keep your car working. You can get one cheap because there are so many places doing them. I don't think increasing competition between doctors would be beneficial at all. Increasing competition between insurers would have had dramatic effects which is why I favored a public option and rescinding their anti trust exemptions.



I didn’t know Bernanke was lurkin on BGOL! :D

Spending cuts are exactly what is needed, Have you seen our tax receipts vs. our tax expenditures? When you’re in a hole, the first thing you need to do is STOP DIGGING. At some point, the policy must change. We can no longer borrow to consume products that we didn’t make. It should be looked at as a good thing that the private sector isn’t spending, sometimes medicine tastes nasty but it needs to be taken. Also, you will come to understand that Geithner & Bernanke are just tryin to re-inflate a “bubble”, sad part is, Obama will get the blame.

Govt has to? Govts. can’t create wealth. They only confiscate it through interest on your debt, income taxes & inflation

We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false. - William Casey, CIA Director

Amazingly Big Business doesn't buy into the the "Gov't can't create wealth" idea. By their practices of begging for tax breaks and subsidies, they believe the exact opposite.
You speak as if this would be a mild correction but in fact it would be disastrous for gov't to have cut spending in the middle one of the deepest recessions in recent history.
I'm wary of new "bubbles" as well and I hope Obama continues to put more faith in Paul Voelker and less in Tim Geitner.
 
It doesn't matter if you're a CONSERVATIVE or LIBERAL.

This country is going to hell. You won't believe some of the shit I hear when I drop by the office. White folks talking about forming 1 million man militias and marching on D.C. and shit...then get quiet as fuck when I happen to pop in. FUCK THAT. Some of these motherfuckers are going to get angrier and more proactive by firing bullets at people.

I'm having my passport made ready by the end of the week. Fuck ya'll and your race wars.
 
You're running away from, race ???

Where will you go, where it does not matter ???
 
It doesn't matter if you're a CONSERVATIVE or LIBERAL.

This country is going to hell. You won't believe some of the shit I hear when I drop by the office. White folks talking about forming 1 million man militias and marching on D.C. and shit...then get quiet as fuck when I happen to pop in. FUCK THAT. Some of these motherfuckers are going to get angrier and more proactive by firing bullets at people.

I'm having my passport made ready by the end of the week. Fuck ya'll and your race wars.


Brother
There's a whole thread on the front page of the main board for scary negroes. You are missing the fun.
There will be no race war, EVER. Quote me. We've only been waiting for over 150 years.
 
Brother
There's a whole thread on the front page of the main board for scary negroes. You are missing the fun.
There will be no race war, EVER. Quote me. We've only been waiting for over 150 years.

You're a fool. History has shown that multi ethnic empires generally have collapsed due to their inability to control their diverse ethnic populations and the ensuing catastrophic efforts to regain complete control through extreme violence. America is no different and the climate right now is PERFECT to foment a civil conflict on all sides. Your lack of focus on the events that are slowly unfolding show, for the most part, that you're nothing more than a lamb ready for the slaughter.
 
You're a fool. History has shown that multi ethnic empires generally have collapsed due to their inability to control their diverse ethnic populations and the ensuing catastrophic efforts to regain complete control through extreme violence. America is no different and the climate right now is PERFECT to foment a civil conflict on all sides. Your lack of focus on the events that are slowly unfolding show, for the most part, that you're nothing more than a lamb ready for the slaughter.

Home skillet, you came back with a good counter-punch. How much fire there is behind that punch depends on "actual facts" to back it up (this could be a good time to add some). IN THE MEANTIME, HOWEVER, please just stick to sound argument, etc., and leave the name calling for that other board. Aiight?

QueEx
 
It doesn't matter if you're a CONSERVATIVE or LIBERAL.

This country is going to hell. You won't believe some of the shit I hear when I drop by the office. White folks talking about forming 1 million man militias and marching on D.C. and shit...then get quiet as fuck when I happen to pop in. FUCK THAT. Some of these motherfuckers are going to get angrier and more proactive by firing bullets at people.

I'm having my passport made ready by the end of the week. Fuck ya'll and your race wars.

you're right, lib / conservative, it's just another way to divide people. Same with race! From your sig, I see you've looked into the "depopulation agenda" and IT IS VERY REAL. The way I see it, the bankers would enjoy a "race war", it keeps your mind off the $$$.

In reality, aint no where to go. All we can do is respectfully, come together as adults, kick around some ideas and hopefully learn from one another to build stronger communities.
 
You're a fool. History has shown that multi ethnic empires generally have collapsed due to their inability to control their diverse ethnic populations and the ensuing catastrophic efforts to regain complete control through extreme violence. America is no different and the climate right now is PERFECT to foment a civil conflict on all sides. Your lack of focus on the events that are slowly unfolding show, for the most part, that you're nothing more than a lamb ready for the slaughter.

Which empires? Once you actually have to think about them and the difference between them then and America now, I hope you see how silly all this race war talk is.
You eagerly join the the thinking of historical losers like the Ku Klux Klan and the miliia groups that hide in the mountains. Go ahead, don't let me stop you.
 
you're right, lib / conservative, it's just another way to divide people. Same with race!
In reality, aint no where to go. All we can do is respectfully, come together as adults, kick around some ideas and hopefully learn from one another to build stronger communities.

Agreed.

An interesting list in the OP, quite a few of them can be turned completely around.


And when Republicans had political power, they were so it's amusing to watch them not only do what a lot of the Left did but do it to a much further extreme.
I'm overly bored with conservatives trying to draw some moral equivalence to the nonsense they spout daily to the actions of MoveOn.org or some other Left group during the Bush Administration. It's fake and intellectually dishonest and lazy.
 
And BTW look at what is in the jobs bill, its full of tax cuts, tax credits, incentives, etc. for business to hire people.

AAA, I might be readin this wrong but..........Is he admitting tax cuts provide incentives for hiring?
 
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AAA, I might be readin this wrong but..........Is he admitting tax cuts provide incentives for hiring?

Yea, tax cuts ALONG WITH tax credits, and other incentives. Tax cuts alone wont do the job homie.

For example: if company X is reporting losses of X million, due to lack of sales or lack of interest from consumers, a tax cut is not gonna make company X hire people (BECAUSE THEY STILL ARENT MAKING ANY PROFITS).

Like I said, its a fucking recession (a very bad one, 30 years in the making), and needs to be attacked from all fronts. Theres no 1 solution for this.
 
Triple A
This is one of the most nonsensical rants you ever posted that had little to no foundation in truth and didn't refute the OP at all. I thought the letter was about conservative hypocrisy, not race.
I'm on the way out right now but I'll point out where you're wrong in about 30-45 minutes.

The letter is not about conservative hypocrisy. It is a letter about trying to score points. It's the typical left wing letter about scoring points.

I didn't bother to read all of it because after reading all the you can't stuff I see that the author was childish and didn't think through the you can't statements.

For example you can't vote against the bill and use the money. I guess we don't have a democratic system anymore where ideas are put forward voted on and the ones that get passed are acted upon. Doo. Don't agree with any laws passed so I don't take the benefits of them and carry it out in my state. What the author is failing to understand is that all the policies are made with the best self interest of the poeple making them, whether it be Republicans, Democrats, Independent, Socialist. If you don't get what you want it doesn't mean you don't make the best of the system that you have. No different from policies are work, in the home or in the society.

Another point the author tried to make is if something you championed is now being championed by someone else it's hypocritical to vote against it. No it's not when the initiative you put forwarded has been married with so many other crap that you don't agree with in the wheeling and dealing that goes on to get a bill passed. Yes you are getting your initiative passed that might be a good bill but the other crap they put in there is just wrong and you would rather not be associated with them.

The point the author was trying to make with the Republicans passing the stimulus the first bailout bill is not even a point worth arguing. Many believed they should have let the system crash then pick up the pieces but this is a whole other discussion. I believed we've argued the bailout enough already here. I was even debating with some European friends about it on Friday who could not understand why the people were calling for bailing out the poeple with mortgage problems. They cannot see anything like that happening where they were. That's for another discussion.

I stopped reading most of these post because I watch the financial channels all day or I follow news from different countries in some form or another. After that I am all politicked out. I try to follow some of the things on the local level and have thoughts of actively participating and thus see the need for the teabag movements. This movement is a really good thing as it gets citizens participating in local government that other wise might not have cared.

I don't want to keep debating the whole Republicans and Democrats issue when I see that whatever party is in power is put there or hijacked by the rich and powerful. I watch the process unfold how the rich created the system to benefit from the subprime and then hijacked the Democrat party to bail them out because they felt the Democrat socialist platform best suit them than the Republican's let them or some fail first. I watched how from one party to another the people in power are the same. So one party is in this term and the group will have one of their people in the power seat and the group still benefit. I am just watching how certain groups may start out with good intentions but by the time they get near to the power structure their movements take on a live that currupts it from the pure innocent idea it started out as, to where it gets hijacted and systemized and that is the way it is and that is just the nature of life.
 
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The letter is not about conservative hypocrisy. It is a letter about trying to score points. It's the typical left wing letter about scoring points.

I didn't bother to read all of it because after reading all the you can't stuff I see that the author was childish and didn't think through the you can't statements.

For example you can't vote against the bill and use the money. I guess we don't have a democratic system anymore where ideas are put forward voted on and the ones that get passed are acted upon. Doo. Don't agree with any laws passed so I don't take the benefits of them and carry it out in my state. What the author is failing to understand is that all the policies are made with the best self interest of the poeple making them, whether it be Republicans, Democrats, Independent, Socialist. If you don't get what you want it doesn't mean you don't make the best of the system that you have. No different from policies are work, in the home or in the society.

Another point the author tried to make is if something you championed is now being championed by someone else it's hypocritical to vote against it. No it's not when the initiative you put forwarded has been married with so many other crap that you don't agree with in the wheeling and dealing that goes on to get a bill passed. Yes you are getting your initiative passed that might be a good bill but the other crap they put in there is just wrong and you would rather not be associated with them.

The point the author was trying to make with the Republicans passing the stimulus the first bailout bill is not even a point worth arguing. Many believed they should have let the system crash then pick up the pieces but this is a whole other discussion. I believed we've argued the bailout enough already here. I was even debating with some European friends about it on Friday who could not understand why the people were calling for bailing out the poeple with mortgage problems. They cannot see anything like that happening where they were. That's for another discussion.

I stopped reading most of these post because I watch the financial channels all day or I follow news from different countries in some form or another. After that I am all politicked out. I try to follow some of the things on the local level and have thoughts of actively participating and thus see the need for the teabag movements. This movement is a really good thing as it gets citizens participating in local government that other wise might not have cared.

I don't want to keep debating the whole Republicans and Democrats issue when I see that whatever party is in power is put there or hijacked by the rich and powerful. I watch the process unfold how the rich created the system to benefit from the subprime and then hijacked the Democrat party to bail them out because they felt the Democrat socialist platform best suit them than the Republican's let them or some fail first. I watched how from one party to another the people in power are the same. So one party is in this term and the group will have one of their people in the power seat and the group still benefit. I am just watching how certain groups may start out with good intentions but by the time they get near to the power structure their movements take on a live that currupts it from the pure innocent idea it started out as, to where it gets hijacted and systemized and that is the way it is and that is just the nature of life.

I could tell you didn't read the letter by your first sentence.
 
Which empires? Once you actually have to think about them and the difference between them then and America now, I hope you see how silly all this race war talk is.
You eagerly join the the thinking of historical losers like the Ku Klux Klan and the miliia groups that hide in the mountains. Go ahead, don't let me stop you.

The Russian Empire (in which Modern Russia is STILL dealing with a radical Muslim population), The Roman Empire, The Hellenistic Empire (created Alexander and quickly fragmented upon his death), The Persian Empire...Seriously. You seem intelligent therefore, I would've hoped you have entertained me with a better response than that but it is what is.

When the house of cards falls and people are without the help and are removed from the total control of the then defunct and destroyed Government. Natural human instincts will lead to "mass tribal/clannish movements" which will have to be defined by race because that is how Americans define each other which is a GREAT WEAKNESS. The British and French attempted to fragment the United States along racial lines in the Civil War even though that conflict was about Federal Government overstepping their boundaries in trying to regulate the States (sounds familiar?).

You must be ignorant is seeing the events that are presently unfolding right now.
 
The Russian Empire (in which Modern Russia is STILL dealing with a radical Muslim population), The Roman Empire, The Hellenistic Empire (created Alexander and quickly fragmented upon his death), The Persian Empire...Seriously. You seem intelligent therefore, I would've hoped you have entertained me with a better response than that but it is what is.

When the house of cards falls and people are without the help and are removed from the total control of the then defunct and destroyed Government. Natural human instincts will lead to "mass tribal/clannish movements" which will have to be defined by race because that is how Americans define each other which is a GREAT WEAKNESS. The British and French attempted to fragment the United States along racial lines in the Civil War even though that conflict was about Federal Government overstepping their boundaries in trying to regulate the States (sounds familiar?).

You must be ignorant is seeing the events that are presently unfolding right now.


No, what I am ignornant to is how people can claim to know anything about history and then compare these radically different societies and eras to today. The comparisons are cute and make for some hypothesizing but comparing times when armies had to walk to their battlefields to now when this country can do a significant amount of damage from the air without one soldier is ridiculous.

When you say "Russian Empire" are you referring to the czars or the Communists? Both had different reasons for failing and very little if anything to do with racial conflict.

I always :lol: when people take their really baseless fears and try to couch them with some pseudo-intellectuall nonsense.
 
Amazingly Big Business doesn't buy into the the "Gov't can't create wealth" idea. By their practices of begging for tax breaks and subsidies, they believe the exact opposite.
You speak as if this would be a mild correction but in fact it would be disastrous for gov't to have cut spending in the middle one of the deepest recessions in recent history.
I'm wary of new "bubbles" as well and I hope Obama continues to put more faith in Paul Voelker and less in Tim Geitner.

Is this the same Top 1% of the wealthiest Americans that is so villianized? As long as you have a monopolistic control of money & credit from the Federal Reserve, it's a natural & predictable consequence that some will prosper but most will suffer. The people who prosper are the people who get to use the money first, then it trickles down to US. Whether it's Clinton, Bush, Reagan or Obama, it's trickle down or "Trickle On"

Point 2, We Need Spending Cuts because we are depending solely on the creation of money "out of thin air" to finance our govt endeavors. This devalues the currency and the people who suffer the most are the poor, middle class & those on fixed incomes! Think of it as a silent "Inflation Tax". These cuts can come from ending the Wars & ending benefits to non-Americans. It would be a start but it needs to happen
 
Everyone seems anti conservative until they start making more money. Only a fool willingly gives away his/her hard earned money. I suspect those who are promoting the hatred of conservatives are either earning too little or have enough stored away so they are not adversely affected by those policies they wish to enforce on all.

When people stop working at McDonalds and start earning $80K or more they will begin seeing how much of their paycheck goes to the government, then their tune will change.

It's not a blackie hate whitie issue, it is about theft. Taxing people is a form of theft. Welfare and universal health care is a form of theft. No one is guaranteed food or health care. You are guaranteed life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. But as far as earning money and being healthy, that is the person's responsibility. If you want health care then obtain the skills and education necessary to obtain employment that offers health care or negotiate that with your employer when you are hired.

If your trying to raise a family on an entry level position, like McDonalds or some union position, well than that is your fault not the employers or the U.S. taxpayers. Unions themselves are nothing more than a socialist organization that collects part of your paycheck to fatten their wallets. People are smart enough to get jobs that don't require others, unions, to think for them. If not, well then they really don't deserve the job.

Stop bashing those you disagree with. Ten years from now when your earning more money...your opinion will verily change.
 
Is this the same Top 1% of the wealthiest Americans that is so villianized? As long as you have a monopolistic control of money & credit from the Federal Reserve, it's a natural & predictable consequence that some will prosper but most will suffer. The people who prosper are the people who get to use the money first, then it trickles down to US. Whether it's Clinton, Bush, Reagan or Obama, it's trickle down or "Trickle On"

Point 2, We Need Spending Cuts because we are depending solely on the creation of money "out of thin air" to finance our govt endeavors. This devalues the currency and the people who suffer the most are the poor, middle class & those on fixed incomes! Think of it as a silent "Inflation Tax". These cuts can come from ending the Wars & ending benefits to non-Americans. It would be a start but it needs to happen

Yep.
 
Everyone seems anti conservative until they start making more money. Only a fool willingly gives away his/her hard earned money. I suspect those who are promoting the hatred of conservatives are either earning too little or have enough stored away so they are not adversely affected by those policies they wish to enforce on all.

When people stop working at McDonalds and start earning $80K or more they will begin seeing how much of their paycheck goes to the government, then their tune will change.

It's not a blackie hate whitie issue, it is about theft. Taxing people is a form of theft. Welfare and universal health care is a form of theft. No one is guaranteed food or health care. You are guaranteed life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. But as far as earning money and being healthy, that is the person's responsibility. If you want health care then obtain the skills and education necessary to obtain employment that offers health care or negotiate that with your employer when you are hired.

If your trying to raise a family on an entry level position, like McDonalds or some union position, well than that is your fault not the employers or the U.S. taxpayers. Unions themselves are nothing more than a socialist organization that collects part of your paycheck to fatten their wallets. People are smart enough to get jobs that don't require others, unions, to think for them. If not, well then they really don't deserve the job.

Stop bashing those you disagree with. Ten years from now when your earning more money...your opinion will verily change.

Jibberish. Pure, untainted jibberish. But it's a popular thought among enough Americans that the robber barons who were brought to heel 70 years ago are back in charge and the few protections for the masses are compromised and/or teetering on collapse.
 
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