No More Post About Republicans/Conservatives; They Have Absolute No Credibility Left

thoughtone

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After all of the hysteria the right has been generating, they publicly admit that they have been lying about the threats coming from Iran, something free thinkers and true independents have known for sometime. Fool me once same on you, fool me twice shame on me, fool me three times, you’re a Republican that loves the Kool Aid!

Who are conspiracy theorist now!


source: Think Progress.org


Despite Knowledge That Iran Halted Nuke Program, White House Continued To Warn Of False Threat

The National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) released today concludes that “in fall 2003, Tehran halted its nuclear weapons program.” It adds that “Tehran had not restarted its nuclear weapons program as of mid-2007,” and the country is “less determined to develop nuclear weapons than we have been judging since 2005.”

The assessment, which relies on data collected through Oct. 31, was reportedly completed in 2006, but was blocked by administration officials who wanted it to be more in line with Vice President Cheney’s hardline views.

As The Washington Monthly’s Kevin Drum notes, the NIE’s “basic parameters were almost certainly common knowledge in the White House” at least by last year, when the document was finished. Yet even in the past two months, the administration has continued to push its faulty, inflammatory rhetoric and claim that Iran is pursuing nuclear weapons. Some examples:

“So I’ve told people that if you’re interested in avoiding World War III, it seems like you ought to be interested in preventing them from have the knowledge necessary to make a nuclear weapon. I take the threat of Iran with a nuclear weapon very seriously.” [Bush, 10/17/07]

“Our country, and the entire international community, cannot stand by as a terror-supporting state fulfills its grandest ambitions. … The Iranian regime needs to know that if it stays on its present course the international community is prepared to impose serious consequences.” [Cheney, 10/21/07]

“The problem is Iran, and Iran has not stepped back from trying to pursue a nuclear weapon, and — or reprocessing and enriching uranium, which would lead to a nuclear weapon.” [White House spokeswoman Dana Perino, 10/26/07]

“We talked about Iran and the desire to work jointly to convince the Iranian regime to give up their nuclear weapons ambitions, for the sake of peace.” [Bush, 11/7/07]

“We’re in a position now, clearly, especially when we look at Iran, where it’s very, very important we succeed in our efforts, our national security efforts, to discourage the Iranians from enriching uranium and producing nuclear weapons.” [Cheney, 11/9/07]

“We are convinced that they are developing nuclear weapons.” [Energy Secretary Samuel Bodman, 11/13/07]

The White House isn’t yet ready to give up its spin. National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley will be speaking to the press at 3:15 PM EST today, and has already claimed that the NIE “confirms that we were right to be worried about Iran seeking to develop nuclear weapons.”

UPDATE: Secretary of Defense Robert Gates recently said, “It would be a strategic calamity to attack Iran at this time.”

They Just Don't Give Up

Bush Keeps Up Pressure on Tehran

source: The Huffington Post

WASHINGTON — President Bush said Tuesday that the international community should continue to pressure Iran on its nuclear programs, asserting Tehran remains dangerous despite a new intelligence conclusion that it halted its development of a nuclear bomb four years ago.

"I view this report as a warning signal that they had the program, they halted the program," Bush said. "The reason why it's a warning signal is they could restart it."

Bush spoke one day after a new national intelligence estimate found that Iran halted its nuclear weapons program in the fall of 2003, largely because of international scrutiny and pressure. That finding is in stark contrast to the comparable intelligence estimate of just two years ago, when U.S. intelligence agencies believed Tehran was determined to develop a nuclear weapons capability and was continuing its weapons development program.

It is also stood in marked contrast to Bush's rhetoric on Iran. At his last news conference on Oct. 17, for instance, he said that people "interested in avoiding World War III" should be working to prevent Iran from having the knowledge needed to make a nuclear weapon.

Bush said Tuesday that he only learned of the new intelligence assessment last week. But he portrayed it as valuable ammunition against Tehran, not as a reason to lessen diplomatic pressure.

"To me, the NIE (National Intelligence Estimate) provides an opportunity for us to rally the international community _ to continue to rally the community _ to pressure the Iranian regime to suspend its program," the president said. "What's to say they couldn't start another covert nuclear weapons program."

He also asserted that the report means "nothing's changed," focusing on the previous existence of a weapons program and not addressing the discrepancy between his rhetoric and the disclosure that weapons program has been frozen for four years.

Bush said he is not troubled about his standing, about perhaps facing a credibility gap with the American people. "No, I'm feeling pretty spirited _ pretty good about life," Bush said.

"I have said Iran is dangerous, and the NIE doesn't do anything to change my opinion about the danger Iran poses to the world."

Bush said the report's finding would not prompt him to take a U.S. military option against Tehran off the table.

"The best diplomacy _ effective diplomacy _ is one in which all options are on the table," he said

The president also said that the world would agree with his message that Iran shouldn't be let off the hook yet.

In fact, Europeans said the new information strengthens their argument for negotiations with Tehran, but they also said that sanctions are still an option to compel Iran to be fully transparent about its nuclear program. European officials insisted that the international community should not walk away from years of talks with an often defiant Tehran that is openly enriching uranium for uncertain ends. The report said Iran could still build a nuclear bomb by 2010-2015.

In Kabul, Afghanistan, Defense Secretary Robert Gates reinforced the U.S. position that the new U.S. intelligence assessment shows that Tehran remains a possible threat. He said it shows that Iran has had a nuclear weapons program and that as long as the country continues with its uranium enrichment activities, Iran could always renew its weapons program.

The U.S. intelligence assessment "validated the administration's strategy of bringing diplomatic and economic efforts to bear on Iran," Gates said Tuesday, speaking at a news conference with Afghanistan's President Hamid Karzai.

Bush called the news conference, his first in nearly seven weeks, to intensify pressure on lawmakers amid disputes over spending and the Iraq war. Taking advantage of his veto power and the largest bully pulpit in town, Bush regularly scolds Congress as a way to stay relevant and frame the debate as his presidency winds down.

Democrats counter that Bush is more interested in making statements than genuinely trying to negotiate some common ground with them.

Specifically, Bush again on Tuesday challenged Congress to send him overdue spending bills; to approve his latest war funding bill without conditions; to pass a temporary to fix to the alternative minimum tax so millions of taxpayers don't get hit with tax increases; and to extend the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act.

"Congress still has a lot to do," Bush said. "It doesn't have very much time to do it."

On another matter, Bush was asked about a rape victim in Saudi Arabia who was sentenced to prison and 200 lashes for being alone with a man not related to her _ a violation of the kingdom's strict segregation of the sexes. Saudi Arabia has faced enormous international criticism about the sentencing.

"My first thoughts were these," Bush said. "What happens if this happens to my daughter? How would I react? And I would have been _ I'd of been very emotional, of course. I'd have been angry at those who committed the crime. And I'd be angry at a state that didn't support the victim."

Bush, however, said he has not made his views known directly to Saudi King Abdullah, an ally. But he added: "He knows our position loud and clear."

The president said the U.S. economy is strong, though he acknowledged that the housing crisis has become a "headwind." He said administration officials are working on the issue, but he is wary of bailing out lenders. "We shouldn't say, 'OK, you made a lousy loan so we're going to go ahead and subsidize you.' "

Asked about the 2008 election, Bush steered himself back out of commenting on politics. "I practiced some punditry in the past _ I'm not going to any further."

On other issues, Bush said:

_"The Venezuelan people rejected one-man rule" when they rejected a constitutional provision that would have enabled Hugo Chavez to remain in power for life and drive changes throughout Venezuelan society. "They voted for democracy."

_He talked by telephone Tuesday with Russian President Vladimir Putin and briefed him on the new Iran intelligence estimate. Bush also said he told Putin that "we were sincere in our expressions of concern" about irregularities in the voting that produced a sweeping parliamentary victory for Putin's party.

He has "cordial relations" with Democratic leaders of Congress despite the sharp words between the White House and Capitol Hill. He blamed Democrats for the lack of compromises, saying, "In order for us to be able to reach accord, they got to come with one voice, one position."

source: The New York Times.com

December 4, 2007, 9:46 am

The Skeptical Camp Emerges on Iran’s Nuclear Ambitions

By Mike Nizza

Tags: intelligence, iran. nuclear proliferation, washington

The National Intelligence Estimate released on Monday resounded with the authority of 16 American spy agencies in agreement that Iran halted its nuclear arms effort in 2003, a conclusion meant to “ensure that an accurate presentation is available.”
But strong contrary opinions on the accuracy of the assessment are emerging from two intertwined camps that have always viewed Iran’s nuclear claims with suspicion: American neoconservatives and the Israeli government.
Leading the way is Michael Ledeen, a conservative scholar at the American Enterprise Institute with a long track record in the Iran policy area, from the Iran-contra affair in the Reagan administration to meetings with Iranian dissidents living abroad that surprised George Tenet, who was then the director of central intelligence, in 2002.
Mr. Ledeen’s first critique — published on his blog under the title “The Great Intelligence Scam” — dismissed the new intelligence estimate as “policy advocacy masquerading as serious intelligence.” The document is riddled with “blatant unprofessionalism,” he says, citing the intelligence community’s consensus answer to a very good question:

Why would the Iranians abandon a program that had been in the works ever since the late 1980s? The IC replies: Because the Iranians are rational, and they respond to international pressure. They shut down the program because the pressure was too great. They couldn’t take the risk of even more pain from the international community.
That was his deadpan way of saying, “yeah, right.”
“If this N.I.E. is true, the evidence would have to be awfully good,” he continued in another version of the argument, posted to the right-leaning National Review’s website. “And evidence of that quality has been in famously short supply.”
Similar doubts are voiced in the Weekly Standard, the conservative weekly, which is asking, “What has changed since 2005,” when the last assessment was published?
The answer comes in two parts from the McClatchy newspaper chain’s Washington bureau, which painted the broad picture:
Senior U.S. intelligence officials said the judgment that Iran had halted its nuclear weapons program in mid-2003 emerged four to six months ago as a result of fresh intelligence, some of it from open sources and some from a “very rigorous scrub” of 20 years of information, some of which informed the 2005 N.I.E.
The officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue, said the analysts who drafted the report also had applied lessons learned from an erroneous 2002 N.I.E. on Iraq.
The Washington Post mentions an interesting glimpse of what that “fresh intelligence” may have been:
Senior officials said the latest conclusions grew out of a stream of information, beginning with a set of Iranian drawings obtained in 2004 and ending with the intercepted calls between Iranian military commanders, that steadily chipped away at the earlier assessment.
In one intercept, a senior Iranian military official was specifically overheard complaining that the nuclear program had been shuttered years earlier, according to a source familiar with the intelligence. The intercept was one of more than 1,000 pieces of information cited in footnotes to the 150-page classified version of the document, an official said.
After top administration officials expressed doubts about the revised view of Iran’s nuclear weapons effort, the intelligence community “spent months examining whether the new information was part of a well-orchestrated ruse,” the Post article continued.
Whether doubts from the right are shared by Vice President Cheney and other like-minded senior administration officials remains to be seen.
But Israel’s prime minister and defense minister are openly questioning the assessment’s conclusions, according to a former Israeli intelligence officer interviewed by USA Today:
“This is a matter of interpretation of data. I do believe that the U.S. and Israel share the same data, but the dispute is about interpreting the data. … Only a blind man cannot see their efforts to put a hand on a nuclear weapon. They are threatening the world.”
The defense minister, Ehud Barak, offered his own take on Israeli Army Radio: he agreed with the banner-headline conclusion that Iran had stopped its nuclear program in 2003, but asserted that it had since been restarted. Mr. Barak, though, unlike Mr. Ledeen, was content with agreeing to disagree with the intelligence assessment. “Only time will tell who is right
 
Re: No More Post About Republicans/Conservatives; They Have Absolute No Credibility

Many democrats have been cosigning this Iran hype. What about them?
 
Re: No More Post About Republicans/Conservatives; They Have Absolute No Credibility

Many democrats have been cosigning this Iran hype. What about them?

I consider the republictates just as evil, (Feinstein, Reid, just to name two) but even the most ardent partisan would admit that since the president has control of the intelligence, he can release what he wants to the public and congress, that's his job. The Cons and GOP have built their foreign policy on fear. Why else would the major of Americans vote for them? Where are the orange alerts?
 
Re: No More Post About Republicans/Conservatives; They Have Absolute No Credibility

Bump to shame the devil(s)!
 
Re: No More Post About Republicans/Conservatives; They Have Absolute No Credibility

Nuff said!

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mark%20sanford.jpg
 
Re: No More Post About Republicans/Conservatives; They Have Absolute No Credibility

So, anyone with the same ideology that you have should be considered angels right?

Thats not very OPEN minded....:rolleyes:
 
Re: No More Post About Republicans/Conservatives; They Have Absolute No Credibility

So, anyone with the same ideology that you have should be considered angels right?

Thats not very OPEN minded....:rolleyes:

Hey, you getting ready to do a "Homo" thread on the main board, open minded ???

:eek:

QueEx
 
Re: No More Post About Republicans/Conservatives; They Have Absolute No Credibility

Family values. Family values!:lol:
 
Re: No More Post About Republicans/Conservatives; They Have Absolute No Credibility

Hey, you getting ready to do a "Homo" thread on the main board, open minded ???

:eek:

QueEx

I'm not the one saying everyone who don't agree with my views are devils. Personally, I can careless about gay marriage if the legal definition does not change. I'm very consistent with my views.

Family values. Family values!:lol:

You barking up the wrong tree with that bullshit. For one, I look at every politician as a person not as a god *like you look at people on your side*. They are all capable of bad things. I put no faith in a person, only in God. Plus, you do not have to remind me that I'm on a porn board either. Before you cast judgment on anyone, make sure your shit smell like roses...
 
Re: No More Post About Republicans/Conservatives; They Have Absolute No Credibility

I'm not the one saying everyone who don't agree with my views are devils. Personally, I can careless about gay marriage if the legal definition does not change. I'm very consistent with my views.



You barking up the wrong tree with that bullshit. For one, I look at every politician as a person not as a god *like you look at people on your side*. They are all capable of bad things. I put no faith in a person, only in God. Plus, you do not have to remind me that I'm on a porn board either. Before you cast judgment on anyone, make sure your shit smell like roses...

Boo, hoo, hoo! The party of family values. Take your own advice.:lol:

At his point I would do the pot and kettle thing, you know.
 
Re: No More Post About Republicans/Conservatives; They Have Absolute No Credibility

Boo, hoo, hoo! The party of family values. Take your own advice.:lol:

At his point I would do the pot and kettle thing, you know.

Really? When have I judged you?

Why would I judge you when I know I have my own faults too?

When it comes to ISSUES I know I make good points. I know you make emotional points. I just agree to disagree with you on some issues, because I'm pretty sure that we will never see eye to eye. Do I cast judgment because I think you are beneath me? FUCK NO. I have no time, and less energy for thinking I'm better than my political opponents. Either on this board, and in real life. Besides, pretty much everything I've stated in my opinion post are coming true. The fact that Obama is rushing every piece of legislation through like a virgin in an Japanese orgy. Sooner, or later, Obama will hit a wall that he can't bulge/break. So, why should I waste my time judging you when I know I'm about to be right on all of this?

Oh yea, about family values. Family values are good to have, but everyone has skeletons in their closet. Including YOU.
 
Re: No More Post About Republicans/Conservatives; They Have Absolute No Credibility

Human sacrifice is the act of killing human beings as part of a religious ritual (ritual killing). Its typology closely parallels the various practices of ritual slaughter of animals (animal sacrifice) and of religious sacrifice in general. Human sacrifice has been practiced in various cultures throughout history.

Even if not ostensibly connected with religion, infliction of capital punishment is often highly ritualised and thus difficult to distinguish from human sacrifice.

Theistic rationalizations of human sacrifice may involve the idea of offering to deities as payment for favorable interventions in an event of special importance, to forestall unfavorable events, or to purchase disclosures about the physical world.


Human sacrifice can also have the intention of winning the gods' favour in warfare. Iphigeneia was to be sacrificed by her father Agamemnon for success in the Trojan War. According to the Bible, Jephthah sacrificed his daughter after making a vow (Judges 11).


A free thinker might look at these wars and come to the conclusion that this isn't political or about national security. That maybe it's religious, another crusade and there's more to this than what we're being told by our govt.
 
Re: No More Post About Republicans/Conservatives; They Have Absolute No Credibility

A free thinker might look at these wars and come to the conclusion that this isn't political or about national security. That maybe it's religious, another crusade and there's more to this than what we're being told by our govt.

Here's the issue I have with this whole post.

Ok, lets say we leave everyone alone hypothetically. What do everyone think is going to happen?

Everlasting peace?

Really?

The only true peace is either with death, or when you obtain victory. There's no middle ground. So, half-assed measures that promises peace will only give you the fake sense of security. The reality is, the middle eastern culture, and western civilization can coexist only when one side wins. The real question is, what constitutes victory? That's really the question we all should be asking.

I believe that a modernize middle east will be western civilization's victory, if that's possible....

Think about it.

If the Palestinians were smart, hearing Iran wanting to destroy Israel should scare the fuck out of them. Why? BECAUSE THEY OCCUPY THE SAME LAND AS ISRAEL. Destroying Israel is the same as destroying Palestine. Especially with a nuclear weapon *which no one knows for sure if they develop it yet, or not*.
 
Re: No More Post About Republicans/Conservatives; They Have Absolute No Credibility

I think the deeper issue why the labels...jews, muslims, christians. They have to be premeditated. The people who assigned them had to know it would lead to wars. This has been going on for over 2000yrs. There's been different excuses, ideologies, theologies but it's the same bloodlines fighting with each other and they are doing it with our sons and daugthers and our money. This earth was put here for everyone, why do the clintons, kennedys, bushs decided how we live. If we, the masses, don't figure this out WWIII and our demise is all but assured.
 
Re: No More Post About Republicans/Conservatives; They Have Absolute No Credibility

Here's the issue I have with this whole post.

Ok, lets say we leave everyone alone hypothetically. What do everyone think is going to happen?

Everlasting peace?

OK, Are we following a constitutional foreign policy or Dubya's policy of pre-emptive strikes? The constitutional approach advises us to trade with all but entangling alliances with none! And we got one clusterf*ck of an alliance with Saudi Arabia & Israel.

I'd vote to leave ASAP and any act of War against us would be met with the entire force of the US military, Period.

Serious question AAA, Do you think our occupation of their land creates more terrorists? What about what Halliburton and Company are doing with their natural resources? Do you really believe they hate us because we are free? I'm not speaking as some kind of 'dove' but rather, as a fiscal conservative. I'm putting myself in their shoes and trying to make sense of this
 
Re: No More Post About Republicans/Conservatives; They Have Absolute No Credibility

Animation_Dove.gif
 
Re: No More Post About Republicans/Conservatives; They Have Absolute No Credibility

Boo, hoo, hoo! The party of family values. Take your own advice.:lol:

At his point I would do the pot and kettle thing, you know.

Dude you are such the typical liberal. The only reason you exploit the shortcomings of these men is because they a least try to stand for something. So people like you who stand for nothing can sit back and point your finger at their shortcoming. Why didn't you include a picture of Bill Clinton or JFK. Simply because they don't tout family values I guess it's ok. This is the stupid mindset that plauges our community. I don't care what party these guys are apart of throw their corrupt asses out. I bet you would defend a democrat if he was in bed with your wife. Well maybe Barack love's her more than me!!!!! If a politician runs on family values and violates his home he should resign. Tell me this, are you proud that out of every 5 black women that become pregnant three abort due to your liberal platform. Pat yourself on the back. Many of the problems that plague our community is due in part to no moral standards. Defend Bill fucking bitches in the white house!!!!
 
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Re: No More Post About Republicans/Conservatives; They Have Absolute No Credibility

Please stop using the Huffington post. This is why I agree with actinanass on having a sub-forum. You can't argue your point without some liberal blogger backing your argument. On most boards you would be considered dumb relying on other peoples material. Use logic see if that garbage you post would stand on it's own. You don't even read half of the blogs you rely on. Your just like Al Gore, you advocate crap but when challenged in the realm of learned people you run for the hills. Would you like it if I relied on fox news? The huffington post is not the only democrap blog ask Que!!!!! He'll point you in the right direction.

Que please help thought!!!!!!!!
 
Re: No More Post About Republicans/Conservatives; They Have Absolute No Credibility

Please stop using the Huffington post.

With which do you disagree? - the source or that which was said.

If you can't refute the latter, the former really is of no moment.

QueEx
 
Re: No More Post About Republicans/Conservatives; They Have Absolute No Credibility

Dude you are such the typical liberal. The only reason you exploit the shortcomings of these men is because they a least try to stand for something. So people like you who stand for nothing can sit back and point your finger at their shortcoming. Why didn't you include a picture of Bill Clinton or JFK. Simply because they don't tout family values I guess it's ok. This is the stupid mindset that plauges our community. I don't care what party these guys are apart of throw their corrupt asses out. I bet you would defend a democrat if he was in bed with your wife. Well maybe Barack love's her more than me!!!!! If a politician runs on family values and violates his home he should resign. Tell me this, are you proud that out of every 5 black women that become pregnant three abort due to your liberal platform. Pat yourself on the back. Many of the problems that plague our community is due in part to no moral standards. Defend Bill fucking bitches in the white house!!!!

Who ever you are Gunner, you are the classic republican HYPOCRITE. You are ass on steroids. At least ass shows absolutely no ability to form his own onions. You parrot the GOP line and try to claim intelligences, which is damn hard to do. I know you want to be Newt Gingrich, but you are not. I never said Clinton had an excuse to screw around on his wife. To my knowledge no liberal source claimed as such and I defy you to post and example. In fact Al Gore arguable lost the 2000 election in part because he tried to distance himself from Clinton, because he found Clinton’s infidelity reprehensible, instead of running on their administrations economic success. “Liberal” said that Clinton’s infidelity was between him and his family. And when the republicans, like the lemmings they are lined up to try and destroy him, they started to be exposed. Bob Livingston, David Vitter, John Ensign and Newt Gingrich have the nerve to point fingers. Your hero Rush Limbaugh as usual has every excuse why they did it. Where is the personal responsibility you big out, when it is convenient? Even Rush can’t seem to satisfy a wife! Judge not less ye be judged! Your campaign slogans are being exposed for what they are, campaign slogans. Today’s GOP stands for nothing other than multinational corporate profits and consolidation of wealth to the ultra wealthy. There is no respect for life, moral values, equal opportunity. Actions speak louder than words!
 
Re: No More Post About Republicans/Conservatives; They Have Absolute No Credibility

Please stop using the Huffington post. This is why I agree with actinanass on having a sub-forum. You can't argue your point without some liberal blogger backing your argument. On most boards you would be considered dumb relying on other peoples material. Use logic see if that garbage you post would stand on it's own. You don't even read half of the blogs you rely on. Your just like Al Gore, you advocate crap but when challenged in the realm of learned people you run for the hills. Would you like it if I relied on fox news? The huffington post is not the only democrap blog ask Que!!!!! He'll point you in the right direction.

Que please help thought!!!!!!!!

Most right wing blogs. Conservatives rule their lives on opinion without striving for the truth. If your news source is reliable, then it will stand up against scrutiny.

With which do you disagree? - the source or that which was said.

If you can't refute the latter, the former really is of no moment.

QueEx

The source. Because posting a counter argument will take them out of their belief zone and then they may be swayed, which will smash the conservative concept. They don’t want to be told they are wrong by people they have tried to dehumanize.
 
Re: No More Post About Republicans/Conservatives; They Have Absolute No Credibility

With which do you disagree? - the source or that which was said.

If you can't refute the latter, the former really is of no moment.:dance:

QueEx

So if I cited a right wing Sean Hannity or Rush ( Vegas favorite ) you lefties wouldn't consider the source? Great I'll start posting Rush's talking points to support my statements.:dance: Thanks Que for the fair and balance!!!!
 
Re: No More Post About Republicans/Conservatives; They Have Absolute No Credibility

Ok, lets say we leave everyone alone hypothetically. What do everyone think is going to happen?

Everlasting peace?

Really?

There's not going to be any peace as long as the people in power are there.
 
Re: No More Post About Republicans/Conservatives; They Have Absolute No Credibility

I think the deeper issue why the labels...jews, muslims, christians. They have to be premeditated. The people who assigned them had to know it would lead to wars. This has been going on for over 2000yrs. There's been different excuses, ideologies, theologies but it's the same bloodlines fighting with each other and they are doing it with our sons and daugthers and our money. This earth was put here for everyone, why do the clintons, kennedys, bushs decided how we live. If we, the masses, don't figure this out WWIII and our demise is all but assured.

Friction makes progress. War makes civilization more mature to understand peace. One thing we can guarantee in life is that war will always exist. Everyone has their rival in this world. It's just the way of life.

OK, Are we following a constitutional foreign policy or Dubya's policy of pre-emptive strikes? The constitutional approach advises us to trade with all but entangling alliances with none! And we got one clusterf*ck of an alliance with Saudi Arabia & Israel.

I'd vote to leave ASAP and any act of War against us would be met with the entire force of the US military, Period.

Serious question AAA, Do you think our occupation of their land creates more terrorists? What about what Halliburton and Company are doing with their natural resources? Do you really believe they hate us because we are free? I'm not speaking as some kind of 'dove' but rather, as a fiscal conservative. I'm putting myself in their shoes and trying to make sense of this

I actually believe in both the constitution's, and Bush's foreign policy. See the problem most people have, is that we try to have an absolute definition of a policy. Strictly by the book policy. When defending this country, we have to understand our enemy. Our enemy knows our rules more than most of our citizens do. We have to adapt just like they adapt to us. Within the constitution of course.

With the second question, I believe its more important to make new allies more than both of the examples you gave. I do not believe in constant occupation. That is how great nations are destroyed. I believe if we can have allies in Israel with allies like Iraq co-existing, it will make this world a better place. Taking over a land, and raping their natural resources serves us no purpose. We can actually make more money if Iraq is strong, and independent ally of ours. Trading with a person is less costly than enslaving them...

Who ever you are Gunner, you are the classic republican HYPOCRITE. You are ass on steroids. At least ass shows absolutely no ability to form his own onions. You parrot the GOP line and try to claim intelligences, which is damn hard to do. I know you want to be Newt Gingrich, but you are not. I never said Clinton had an excuse to screw around on his wife. To my knowledge no liberal source claimed as such and I defy you to post and example. In fact Al Gore arguable lost the 2000 election in part because he tried to distance himself from Clinton, because he found Clinton’s infidelity reprehensible, instead of running on their administrations economic success. “Liberal” said that Clinton’s infidelity was between him and his family. And when the republicans, like the lemmings they are lined up to try and destroy him, they started to be exposed. Bob Livingston, David Vitter, John Ensign and Newt Gingrich have the nerve to point fingers. Your hero Rush Limbaugh as usual has every excuse why they did it. Where is the personal responsibility you big out, when it is convenient? Even Rush can’t seem to satisfy a wife! Judge not less ye be judged! Your campaign slogans are being exposed for what they are, campaign slogans. Today’s GOP stands for nothing other than multinational corporate profits and consolidation of wealth to the ultra wealthy. There is no respect for life, moral values, equal opportunity. Actions speak louder than words!

So liberals don't support the same thing? Man please!!!

Please stop using the Huffington post. This is why I agree with actinanass on having a sub-forum. You can't argue your point without some liberal blogger backing your argument. On most boards you would be considered dumb relying on other peoples material. Use logic see if that garbage you post would stand on it's own. You don't even read half of the blogs you rely on. Your just like Al Gore, you advocate crap but when challenged in the realm of learned people you run for the hills. Would you like it if I relied on fox news? The huffington post is not the only democrap blog ask Que!!!!! He'll point you in the right direction.

Que please help thought!!!!!!!!

Let him keep using the Huff. If you read a half of a paragraph, you will already know if it's just a propaganda piece, or a Bush blame piece. Very typical...

Dude you are such the typical liberal. The only reason you exploit the shortcomings of these men is because they a least try to stand for something. So people like you who stand for nothing can sit back and point your finger at their shortcoming. Why didn't you include a picture of Bill Clinton or JFK. Simply because they don't tout family values I guess it's ok. This is the stupid mindset that plauges our community. I don't care what party these guys are apart of throw their corrupt asses out. I bet you would defend a democrat if he was in bed with your wife. Well maybe Barack love's her more than me!!!!! If a politician runs on family values and violates his home he should resign. Tell me this, are you proud that out of every 5 black women that become pregnant three abort due to your liberal platform. Pat yourself on the back. Many of the problems that plague our community is due in part to no moral standards. Defend Bill fucking bitches in the white house!!!!

He doesn't care about our shortcomings because its the Republicans fault for majority of black America being in the shape it is. In his world, we shouldn't look at ourselves in the mirror.

Most right wing blogs. Conservatives rule their lives on opinion without striving for the truth. If your news source is reliable, then it will stand up against scrutiny.



The source. Because posting a counter argument will take them out of their belief zone and then they may be swayed, which will smash the conservative concept. They don’t want to be told they are wrong by people they have tried to dehumanize.

First of all thought, you cannot beat me in an argument if you stay on issue. You and Vegas love to change the subject when ya'll are losing the argument. Come to think about it, what do you think about the School Voucher Program?

So if I cited a right wing Sean Hannity or Rush ( Vegas favorite ) you lefties wouldn't consider the source? Great I'll start posting Rush's talking points to support my statements.:dance: Thanks Que for the fair and balance!!!!

all they going to do is call you a coon on the main board. Good luck with that...

There's not going to be any peace as long as the people in power are there.

I guess that means no change for Obama huh?
 
Re: No More Post About Republicans/Conservatives; They Have Absolute No Credibility

First of all thought, you cannot beat me in an argument if you stay on issue. You and Vegas love to change the subject when ya'll are losing the argument. Come to think about it, what do you think about the School Voucher Program?

That's all I do is beat you. You take an argument, pose gross hypotheticals and ask to respond. Typical right wing tactic. And you never answer questions.

Merriam-Webster Dictionary

argument:

ar·gu·ment
Pronunciation:\ˈär-gyə-mənt\
Function:noun
Etymology:Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Latin argumentum, from arguere
Date:14th century

2 a: a reason given in proof or rebuttal b: discourse intended to persuade
 
Re: No More Post About Republicans/Conservatives; They Have Absolute No Credibility

Dude you are such the typical liberal. The only reason you exploit the shortcomings of these men is because they a least try to stand for something. So people like you who stand for nothing can sit back and point your finger at their shortcoming. Why didn't you include a picture of Bill Clinton or JFK. Simply because they don't tout family values I guess it's ok. This is the stupid mindset that plauges our community. I don't care what party these guys are apart of throw their corrupt asses out. I bet you would defend a democrat if he was in bed with your wife. Well maybe Barack love's her more than me!!!!! If a politician runs on family values and violates his home he should resign. Tell me this, are you proud that out of every 5 black women that become pregnant three abort due to your liberal platform. Pat yourself on the back. Many of the problems that plague our community is due in part to no moral standards. Defend Bill fucking bitches in the white house!!!!

Because Bill Clinton and JFK didn’t claim they were morally superior and then get caught being a hypocrite!
 
Re: No More Post About Republicans/Conservatives; They Have Absolute No Credibility

So if I cited a right wing Sean Hannity or Rush ( Vegas favorite ) you lefties wouldn't consider the source? Great I'll start posting Rush's talking points to support my statements.:dance: Thanks Que for the fair and balance!!!!
You've got until your next posts to prove that "leftist" comment.
I f you can't . . .

QueEx
 
Re: No More Post About Republicans/Conservatives; They Have Absolute No Credibility

Originally Posted by actinanass
Friction makes progress. War makes civilization more mature to understand peace. One thing we can guarantee in life is that war will always exist. Everyone has their rival in this world. It's just the way of life.


The way of life is order, symmetry, summer follows winter, etc. War is learned behavior. It's no accident, doesn't just happen.
 
Re: No More Post About Republicans/Conservatives; They Have Absolute No Credibility

Because Bill Clinton and JFK didn’t claim they were morally superior and then get caught being a hypocrite!

Let me help you with another example of hypocracy. We all can agree that QUALITY education is the great equalizer. Many in our community are poor due in part to sub par access to quality. The left champion being the gate keepers for the poor. Well since LBJ's war on poverty. 7 trillion has been spent. How's that war on poverty working our for you? How can you guys tout quality education but deny black children who are trapped in shitholes to protect your precious unions. You guys rather protect the jobs of worthless teachers than the future of scholars. Your excuse for Bill and JFK is telling on you. Your excuse is what chaps my hide with lefties. You'd rather settle for tablescraps than earn your seat at the table and earn the respect of your peers.
 
Re: No More Post About Republicans/Conservatives; They Have Absolute No Credibility

That's all I do is beat you. You take an argument, pose gross hypotheticals and ask to respond. Typical right wing tactic. And you never answer questions.

Merriam-Webster Dictionary

argument:

ar·gu·ment
Pronunciation:\ˈär-gyə-mənt\
Function:noun
Etymology:Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Latin argumentum, from arguere
Date:14th century

2 a: a reason given in proof or rebuttal b: discourse intended to persuade

Really?

Forgive me thought, I thought I was debating with someone who was competent...

Because Bill Clinton and JFK didn’t claim they were morally superior and then get caught being a hypocrite!

You do know that every politician is a walking hypocrite right?

It seems like you are stuck on trying to make conservatives look like they are sub-human. It's rather sad that you are what you claim I am.

The way of life is order, symmetry, summer follows winter, etc. War is learned behavior. It's no accident, doesn't just happen.

War is nature nevertheless. The most natural thing in the world is to protect yourself. Passive animals are created with the ability to protect themselves from predators. Aggressive animals tend to have the ability to attack weak points of their prey. Predators, and prey would be considered the simplest foundation of War/conflict. Peace is the unnatural act if you want to get technical. For example, would a wolf go hungry because he vows peace towards the sheep, in a nearby field. Going hungry does not serve that wolf's agenda very well. In other words, war is the clashing of agendas.
 
Re: No More Post About Republicans/Conservatives; They Have Absolute No Credibility

You've got until your next posts to prove that "leftist" comment.
I f you can't . . .

QueEx
Hell you pick the post where you sided with the usual village idiots on this board. Psst!! it would not be that hard to find.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you do cosign everyhing that thought post. Thought does not believe in free market solutions. If you cite a post from the past I will stand corrected. You can't be a little pregnant. Daily you post the shortcoming of republicans but very few democraps. Man everyone on this board is not stupid!!! As I aforemetioned I'd rather have some principles and stand for something than vote present like Obama. You guys know this guy is a sham you just have to much emotion invested in him. You and your ilk hate conservatives because we tell you that the reason your child is failing is because of you. Look around at the communities ran by democraps. You guys have been running them for Years. Where's the economic development? Where's the low crime rate!!! Have the test scores at your schools made significant changes. If you are not a conservative, you are a liberal. Moderates hold a finger in the air to see which way the wind is blowing. Dude you do not want to match wits with me I will embarass you. I try to take it light on you because I know you're doing the best you can. I'm knowledgeable enough to know that both dem and republicans may both suck. But conservative principles will always outwit your leftest
agenda. Like Actinanass said once before you're not suppose to be the sage on the stage but a guide on the side. Step outside of your amen corner and visit some poli boards that would make you cancel you're internet subscription for posting an article from the liberal crap blog of the day without inserting some intellectual thought behind it. You think you're smarter than you really are!!!!!! I challenge you to go to www.tigerdroppings.com and post an article like you normally do. That crap is like chum to them. They would eat you alive. You're in serious denial. You're are a flaming liberal socialist.:angry:

You have the post-traumatic slave syndrome. You and thought can't say anything about racist bigoted conservatives or republicans because they haven't been the ones controlling the urban areas for the last 40 years. Most of your post are based on envy and emotionalism. Cry me a river. In the end all you guys are gonna have is an Obama T-shirt.
 
Last edited:
Re: No More Post About Republicans/Conservatives; They Have Absolute No Credibility

Let me help you with another example of hypocracy. We all can agree that QUALITY education is the great equalizer. Many in our community are poor due in part to sub par access to quality. The left champion being the gate keepers for the poor. Well since LBJ's war on poverty. 7 trillion has been spent. How's that war on poverty working our for you? How can you guys tout quality education but deny black children who are trapped in shitholes to protect your precious unions. You guys rather protect the jobs of worthless teachers than the future of scholars. Your excuse for Bill and JFK is telling on you. Your excuse is what chaps my hide with lefties. You'd rather settle for tablescraps than earn your seat at the table and earn the respect of your peers.

:lol:Nice!Nice deflection. So you agree that those hypocrites that condemned Clinton and are now under the same spotlight deserve ridicule, since you change the subject.

So you think the poverty pre 1964 is the same as today?
 
Re: No More Post About Republicans/Conservatives; They Have Absolute No Credibility

Really?

Forgive me thought, I thought I was debating with someone who was competent...



You do know that every politician is a walking hypocrite right?

It seems like you are stuck on trying to make conservatives look like they are sub-human. It's rather sad that you are what you claim I am.



:lol:You are something.

Just admit that the republican moral superiority political hype has crashed and burned.
 
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