NBA's 50 greatest: most overrated/underated?

he had 2 season's of worse fg% shootinng and 6 worse season's scoring so what the fuck are you talking about.

this is the kind of shit i'm talking about right here.

i've already shown you that tobe had his CAREER WORST FG% under coach tomjanovich. dumb ass couldn't get the O that was CUSTOM DESIGNED for him.

and FYI, tobe's scoring average under coach tomjanovich was the lowest it has EVER been in the post-shaquille o'neal era. furthermore, there have only been 3 seasons where tobe averaged fewer points since becoming a fakers starter.

that's why he staged his 1 month sick-out, forcing dr. buss to fire coach tomjanovich.

i WISH we could get to discussing basketball without having to address all these bullshit lies.

:smh:
 
Man you are nuts. Clyde was a beast. He was good even after he lost his hops.

Clyde could be D up in half court game:smh:, Could only go right:smh:, dribbled with his head down:smh: He was decent on the break. Had no post up game:smh: He D aiiight, not great:smh:.
 
Clyde could be D up in half court game:smh:, Could only go right:smh:, dribbled with his head down:smh: He was decent on the break. Had no post up game:smh: He D aiiight, not great:smh:.

In the current league where there is no hand checking and no rough play how much better would your numbers be?

Clyde Drexler: Oh, tremendously better, from shooting percentage to points per game everything would be up, and our old teams would score a lot more points, and that is saying something because we could score a lot back then. I do think there should be an asterisk next to some of these scoring leaders, because it is much different trying to score with a forearm in your face. It is harder to score with that resistance. You had to turn your back on guys defending you back in the day with all the hand checking that was going on. For guys who penetrate these days, it's hunting season.
 
Overrated : Scottie Pippen - dude was good ,but not one of the "50 Best "


Underrated : Hakeem Olajuwon - dude never gets mentioned has one of the Greatest Centers
 
In the current league where there is no hand checking and no rough play how much better would your numbers be?

Clyde Drexler: Oh, tremendously better, from shooting percentage to points per game everything would be up, and our old teams would score a lot more points, and that is saying something because we could score a lot back then. I do think there should be an asterisk next to some of these scoring leaders, because it is much different trying to score with a forearm in your face. It is harder to score with that resistance. You had to turn your back on guys defending you back in the day with all the hand checking that was going on. For guys who penetrate these days, it's hunting season.

people often forget this. No handchecking changed a lot of shit. A PHYSICALLY strong defender could stop a slasher before he even got started with a strong hand check. The hands off stuff allows scorers today to create their shot easier. Glad you mentioned this.
 
people often forget this. No handchecking changed a lot of shit. A PHYSICALLY strong defender could stop a slasher before he even got started with a strong hand check. The hands off stuff allows scorers today to create their shot easier. Glad you mentioned this.

:yes::yes:
 
in either case presented (tayshaun prince as 1-on-1 defender or good at using help), it doesn't change the fact that a super chucker took the bait.

shaquille o'neal DESTROYING the pistons shooting 63.1% in that series and the "magnificent engine" is busy hoisting bricks.

an intelligent player would have recognized (a) what was WORKING and (b) what wasn't.

but some people stay allergic to FACT.

simply put, if tobe was the baller people imagine him to be, he would have recognized that shaquille o'neal was pissing on the pistons, and would've stopped with the masonry.

oh wait, i forgot that 38.1% is better than 63.1% in a fakers universe.

There's a big difference in wanting to win, and wanting to win on your terms. On the rare nights that Jordan was off, he played superior defense and grabbed boards to compensate. That's why he was a winner. That's why he has 6 rings. You do what's needed to WIN. With a presence like Shaq in the middle, if he's hot, feed him and take the W. Don't keep jacking up shots hoping you get hot.
 
slander? excuses?

WTF you talking about, J?

that's HISTORY, not slander or excuse. coach fratello had those greyhound squads with trees (no pun intended) on the front line, but could only get out of the 1st round twice. TWICE. and never out of the semis.

that should tell you a lot about his coaching.



1st, let me say, don't be so quick to drink the kool-aid. ill? drinking? damn, i didn't know dr. buss was so generous that he'd give an alcoholic $4M to quit. and then keep him on payroll beyond that.

i cite history with coach fratello; you call coach tomjanovich a drunk. who's doing the slander again?

:smh:

and you have to stop talking out your ass. really, man.

tobe under coach tomjanovich was shooting 40.6%. to this day, that still remains his all time career low FG%. even lower than his rookie season.

cats on BGOL can never come to the table prepared to discuss basketball.

:smh:

Fuck are you talking about Kobe shot 43% that year under Rudy T. what difference does that make anyway.

I disproved all the bullshit you were saying fuck outta here.

Rudy T admitted to slipping back what are you saying he was an admitted drunk, and fratello took 3 different teams to the playoffs in his career he couldn;t coach when it didn;t suit your argument but you mention how he had a better record than the Lakers as evidence of something fuck outta here.
 
Another over-sensitive ass Kobe stan.

First off , I didn't even initiate the talk about Prince. And my response was this

"Yeah...agreed..especially if you get baited into shooting jumpers.."

And Rasheed has never been a defensive threat. We had one defensive threat in the middle..Ben Wallace and been Wallace and shit but 6 foot 9 really. The Pistons were always small in the middle...our defensive key was always staying with our man as not to need to double-up much AND challenging very shot..Coach Brown always has teams that play good defense...especially on the perimeter.

what are you talking about man Sheed has always been a great defender one of the best post defenders in NBA hisotry, shall I bring quotes from coaches and players from around the league through the years to make this point.Sheed and Ben together sealed off the paint from opponents, Rip has always been a suspect defender his whole career,the strength of the Pistons defense was to pressure the ball and force guys into shot blockers in the series against the Pistons Kobe got crowded on the perimeter and was forced into Sheed or Wallace to help and because there was no outlet to release the pass to he got stuck into bad shots and the times he beat Prince he always had someone weakside challenging his shot at the rim. thats what happened.

The reality of the matter is that if you stick to playing on the perimeter and shooting jumpers, you play right into Prince's hands because he is a superior defender on the perimeter. Prince has never been a player that funnels players to the pain to get help.I don't know what the fuck you've been watching. If you want to beat prince, you need to penetrate and/on post up because he's thin as a fucking rail and can be overpowered in the paint...and that series was 5 years ago.. Kobe should have 3 games near 40 points and this team is not even remotely the same defensive team as it was 5 years ago...it hasn't been the same since Coach Brown left.

Of course the Pistons aren't the same defensive TEAM thats my point it was their collective team defense not prince indivdiually Kobe because the Pistons basically didn't have a pf to guard just commited extra guys to Kobe. Slava Medvendko was a non factor and Sheed always helped off cutting off Kobe's drive Malone was hurt and there was no Horry. Prince crowds guys and hope to get help in the paint and the last couple years without Ben there's no help thus his ass getting torn out the frame so much.

But this is just more typical smoke-screen Kobe fan shit... instead of dealing with that shitty ass Finals series, you want to jump on some other shit. Nothing changes that fact that one player shot a team out of a series.

Just more typical hater bullshit harping on dumbshit Kobe didn;t shoot the lakers out of s eries they weren;t as good as the Pistons, gary payton was a non factor because of his feud with Phil Jackson and didn't fit the triangle, Malone got hurt as was Fox and the rest of the bench was done, the Pistons were deeper and balanced and better Lakers had all sorts of turmoil.

Kobe played like shit but he didn't shoo them out of the series, but that characterization is funny because he shot them out in haters minds but he didn't help the Lakers win titles either it was all Shaq just to avoid giving Kobe credit.

Thats why arguing with hating as non basketball knowing folk like you is funny. I haven't had the time to get in your shit about Kobe and Mj and all things hoops I been waiting we can go all fucking night with this.
 
Fuck are you talking about Kobe shot 43% that year under Rudy T. what difference does that make anyway.

wrong. tobe shot exactly 40.4% under coach tomjanovich. in and of itself, it doesn't make a lot of difference. but since i pointed out that tobe shot a CAREER WORST FG% and you disputed it, then it makes a difference.

I disproved all the bullshit you were saying fuck outta here.

:lol:

disproved? what exactly did you disprove? the only thing you've disproven in this thread is the claim that you can be accurate in your posts.

fratello took 3 different teams to the playoffs in his career he couldn;t coach when it didn;t suit your argument but you mention how he had a better record than the Lakers as evidence of something fuck outta here.

have you been drinking this evening? no wonder with the above impaired reasoning and convoluted thinking you haven't been able to properly contribute to this thread.

i called coach fratello an "over-achieving midget". how did you construe that to be a diss against coach fratello? everyone who knows professional basketball (and i mean EVERYONE) knows that coach fratello brought the slow down game to modern basketball. where coach d'antoni's mantra can be "7 seconds or less", coach fratello's mantra would be "15 seconds or more". but since you don't appear to be familiar with coach fratello's work, maybe you should look into that and see if that is the reason why he has been unsuccessful in the POST season.

when it didn't suit my argument my ass.

reading shit out of context hasn't helped you either. when i pointed out that PAU GASOL and the grizzlies came out of the MORE competitive SOUTHWEST division (4 teams in the post season) with a better regular season record and a playoff berth, i was comparing that with tobe's inability to match that feat even though the fakers were in the MUCH weaker PUSSIFIC division in 2004-05. but here you come out of left field trying to attach that comparison to coach fratello.

:smh:

when i pointed out that PAU GASOL and the grizzlies finished 2005-06 with a better regular season record and a 4 seed, i was comparing that with tobe's inability to match that feat in 2005-06. but here you come out of left field trying to attach that comparison to coach fratello.

:smh:
 
Another over-sensitive ass Kobe stan.

First off , I didn't even initiate the talk about Prince. And my response was this

"Yeah...agreed..especially if you get baited into shooting jumpers.."



what are you talking about man Sheed has always been a great defender one of the best post defenders in NBA hisotry, shall I bring quotes from coaches and players from around the league through the years to make this point.Sheed and Ben together sealed off the paint from opponents, Rip has always been a suspect defender his whole career,the strength of the Pistons defense was to pressure the ball and force guys into shot blockers in the series against the Pistons Kobe got crowded on the perimeter and was forced into Sheed or Wallace to help and because there was no outlet to release the pass to he got stuck into bad shots and the times he beat Prince he always had someone weakside challenging his shot at the rim. thats what happened. .

You can't be serious.

Sheed as one of the best post defenders in the history of the NBA :lol::lol::lol::lol:


How can you be one of the best post defensive players in league history and NEVER make and NBA All Defensive team
:rolleyes::rolleyes:

The Pistons never had shot blockers besides Ben Wallace. Rasheed Wallace is slow horizontally so he doesn't provide great help defense. Have you ever even watched the pistons play? The Pistons were a great defensive team because they DIDN'T need help defense because every player played their fucking man. The Pistons weren't a team that funneled players to shot blockers because we only had ONE and Ben Wallace was not even a prolific shot blocker.

You muthafuckas just make up shit.


Of course the Pistons aren't the same defensive TEAM thats my point it was their collective team defense not prince indivdiually Kobe because the Pistons basically didn't have a pf to guard just commited extra guys to Kobe. Slava Medvendko was a non factor and Sheed always helped off cutting off Kobe's drive Malone was hurt and there was no Horry. Prince crowds guys and hope to get help in the paint and the last couple years without Ben there's no help thus his ass getting torn out the frame so much.


That wasn't your point. You said Kobe has had 3 good scoring game since. Ok..so fucking what....3 good scoring games in 5 years...that's nothing... Prince always gives Kobe problems and Kobe has stated this his damn self.

And lets speak the truth about that series in 2004. The Pistons DIDN'T double-team Kobe. It is against Brown's philosophy. All we did was back up and give him the room to shoot jump shots...and Kobe with his low basketball IQ fell for the trap. Prince doesn't crowd guys and play with the body. Again...what the fuck are you watching? Prince gives players room because he has damn near the longest wingspan in the league and can recover quickly and challenge shots. I'm beginning to think you know NOTHING about the game of basketball with the garbage you are spouting in this thread.



Just more typical hater bullshit harping on dumbshit Kobe didn;t shoot the lakers out of s eries they weren;t as good as the Pistons,
Bullshit

How are facts bullshit?.. because it doesn't fit with your revisionist history??:lol:

Kobe shot 25 times a game at 38 percent. Are you saying that this is not true? The stats don't lie.That is the very definition of shooting your team out of a series. And we aren't even talking all of his turnovers..leading his team 4 out of 5 games.


gary payton was a non factor because of his feud with Phil Jackson and didn't fit the triangle,

Payton was a non-factor because he lost a step and got raped by Billups.


Kobe played like shit but he didn't shoo them out of the series, but that characterization is funny because he shot them out in haters minds

25 shots a game at 38 percent for the series. 17 percent from the three point line. Shit is not in my mind. Shit is in the record books idiot :lol:


I need to stop taking about basketball because I obviously don't know anything about it eewwll. Sorry for wasting your time.

Fixed.
 
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i have no beef with J, but it's pretty clear he's a superficial basketball fan.

dude googled tobe's FG% for 2004-05 and cited the entire season even though we were CLEARLY and SPECIFICALLY referring to only the time under coach tomjanovich.

it's only a matter of time before these dudes that talk out their ass get outed. just give 'em more time and they never let you down.

funny how he claims to have disproved me also, even though he hasn't responded to the CAREER HIGH 4.44 turnovers per game under coach tomjanovich too.

EDIT: CAREER WORST FG%, CAREER HIGH TOs, LOWEST POST SHAQUILLE O'NEAL SCORING AVERAGE, but he disproved me.
 
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people often forget this. No handchecking changed a lot of shit. A PHYSICALLY strong defender could stop a slasher before he even got started with a strong hand check. The hands off stuff allows scorers today to create their shot easier. Glad you mentioned this.


:dance::dance::dance::dance::dance:
 
Payton was a non-factor because he was constantly being put out of defensive position by a overzealous chucker's bad shot selection. If you remember two years later Payton, without the chucker ended up shutting Chauncey down.
Fixed...
 
Please. You just made his point about disrupting the offense. I'm a Pistons fan...shit.everyone in my family is because we are from the D...and even my damn 6 year old cousin realized that Kobe was fucking up the offense when he hijacked it by taking ill-advised jump shots instead of running the triangle...to the point of even were like..damn..this cat is fucking up the series and it was good for my Pistons. Shaq was abusing Wallace and we couldn't do anything with him...and what does Coach Brown do... he tells the team to allow Kobe to get off shots...give him space and let him shoot...even if he hits a shot.it's better than giving the easy buckets to Shaq. Besides Billups completely fucking abusing and embarrassing Payton, this is the reason why the Lakers lost..Kobe's performance also ranks as one of the worst performance in NBA history for the Finals(not making it up.do a google search).

Kobe shot 38 percent from the field... 17 percent from 3 :puke:

Game 1: 10 for 27 :puke:
Game 2: 14 for 27
Game 3: 4 for 13 :puke:
Game 4: 8 for 25 :puke:
Game 5: 7 for 21 :puke:

Plus. He lead the lakers in turnovers every fucking game except game 1 :puke:

This why the Lakers lost. Kobe was more concerned about getting his shots than running the fucking offense through Shaq and getting high percent shots and being efficient.

You are making my point for me. Phil Jackson did not make the proper adjustments. You mean to tell me he can't pull an ineffective Kobe from the line up? The Zen-Master simply got outcoached. Larry Brown had the perfect plan to beat the triangle. If I were a coach, I wouldn't let Kobe take all those bad shots. Even Coach Karl has more control over Carmelo. And yes it was a pathetic performance on Kobe's part. Shaq was dominating & he let's Kobe jack up bricks? And let's not forget that Phil had Karl Malone & Payton on offense. They basically were pawns in that series. Billups uses every thin point guard. That's why you make adjustments. I'd put Kobe on Billups if he is lighting Payton up.
 
You are making my point for me. Phil Jackson did not make the proper adjustments. You mean to tell me he can't pull an ineffective Kobe from the line up? The Zen-Master simply got outcoached. Larry Brown had the perfect plan to beat the triangle. If I were a coach, I wouldn't let Kobe take all those bad shots. Even Coach Karl has more control over Carmelo. And yes it was a pathetic performance on Kobe's part. Shaq was dominating & he let's Kobe jack up bricks? And let's not forget that Phil had Karl Malone & Payton on offense. They basically were pawns in that series. Billups uses every thin point guard. That's why you make adjustments. I'd put Kobe on Billups if he is lighting Payton up.
Ummm. Raw dawg I guess you do not realize what happens to coaches who opposes the will of Kobe?
 
i have no beef with J, but it's pretty clear he's a superficial basketball fan.

dude googled tobe's FG% for 2004-05 and cited the entire season even though we were CLEARLY and SPECIFICALLY referring to only the time under coach tomjanovich.

it's only a matter of time before these dudes that talk out their ass get outed. just give 'em more time and they never let you down.

funny how he claims to have disproved me also, even though he hasn't responded to the CAREER HIGH 4.44 turnovers per game under coach tomjanovich too.

EDIT: CAREER WORST FG%, CAREER HIGH TOs, LOWEST POST SHAQUILLE O'NEAL SCORING AVERAGE, but he disproved me.

You also forget he was 25, learning a new system & seeing the double teams he never saw when Shaq was there. He was drawing all the attention instead of Shaq. Basically he was a deer in headlights. It was a whole new ball game and his flaws were not hidden so easily. He had to do something he wasn't used to: pass the ball. At this point in time, I was saying McGrady was better than Kobe. I still believe that since McGrady had absolutely no help at the time. If you put say Vince Carter, McGrady, Ray Allen or Jason Richardson on those 3 NBA Finals teams with Shaq instead of Kobe, they still win a title. I've argued that for years with every Laker fan. But you must admit, Kobe is getting better and is clearly a gifted player. He is a Top 5 NBA player no matter how many bad shots he takes. I have it Wade, Lebron, Kobe, CP3 & Dirk.
 
Ummm. Raw dawg I guess you do not realize what happens to coaches who opposes the will of Kobe?

You forget that he left anyway & wrote a book dogging the Kobster. So fuck his lil feelings & win your 10th ring. Phil had never lost a finals & was in the last year of his contract. Why give in to a 25 year old kid? He still has no control over Kobe. Kobe still interrupts his offense.
 
Overated:
Anyone who had to play when dunking was disallowed or frowned upon. Anyone who had pound for pound couldn't match up in the same positions today. Its like saying the run-orientated 70's Steelers or 60's Packers could hold a match to anyone today or the 80 and 90's Niners or Cowboys. Put today's grizzlies up against some of those early Celtic champions with the current rules. It would be a tougher game than u think.

You're not making a point really. So, everybody that played before 5 years ago isn't great? To follow your theory, they'd have to name a new greatest of all time every 10 years. On a sidenote my man. You struck a nerve when you were talkin' about my Steelers. They may be under sized for today's game but, they could play with any team past or present. Keep in mind that they play in an era now where you can't even touch a dam receiver past 5 yards down the field. God forbid you knock the shit out of a QB. You may get a 5 game suspension. Everything now is geared for higher scoring games. The hash marks have been moved in, they kickoff from the 30 instead of the 40. You can't compare eras my Dude.
 
You forget that he left anyway & wrote a book dogging the Kobster. So fuck his lil feelings & win your 10th ring. Phil had never lost a finals & was in the last year of his contract. Why give in to a 25 year old kid? He still has no control over Kobe. Kobe still interrupts his offense.
if it were only between Kobe and Phil it would be easy, but you are not realizing that there are other forces at play...
 
You also forget he was 25, learning a new system & seeing the double teams he never saw when Shaq was there. He was drawing all the attention instead of Shaq. Basically he was a deer in headlights. It was a whole new ball game and his flaws were not hidden so easily. He had to do something he wasn't used to: pass the ball.

IF tobe were the multi-skilled prodigy people imagine him to be, THEN adapting to a new system wouldn't have been such a tremendous burden to overcome for a NINTH YEAR veteran.

look what happened with pau gasol and the fakers, kevin garnett and ray allen with the celtics.

shaquille o'neal went from the finals with expansion team orlando to the fakers and won rings. he then went from the fakers to the heat and won a ring there. the fact that he made those transitions so successfully is a testament to his versatility and ability.

tobe had improved rebounding and assists under coach tomjanovich, but the new O was making him look like dirt. tobe's fragile ego was being marred by the CAREER LOW FG% and CAREER HIGH TOs. worse yet, the fakers were WINNING while the king was shown to be wearing no clothes. tobe couldn't let that continue so he took 30 days off and miraculously coach tomjanovich "quit" during the absence.
 
No Colin

You're not making a point really. So, everybody that played before 5 years ago isn't great? To follow your theory, they'd have to name a new greatest of all time every 10 years. You can't compare eras my Dude.

1999-00
• In the backcourt, there is no contact with hands and forearms by defenders. In the frontcourt, there is no contact with hands and forearms by defenders except below the free throw line extended in which case the defender may only use his forearm. In the post, neither the offensive player nor the defender is allowed to dislodge or displace a player who has legally obtained a position. Defender may not use his forearm, shoulder, hip or hand to reroute or hold-up an offensive player going from point A to point B or one who is attempting to come around a legal screen set by another offensive player. Slowing or impeding the progress of the screener by grabbing, clutching, holding “chucking” or “wrapping up” is prohibited.

2000-01
• No contact with either hands or forearms by defenders except in the frontcourt below the free throw line extended in which case the defender may use his forearm only.
• Defender may not use his forearm, shoulder, hip or hand to reroute or hold-up an offensive player going from point A to Point B or one who is attempting to come around a legal screen set by another offensive player.
• Slowing or impeding the progress of the screener by grabbing, clutching, holding “chucking” or “wrapping up” is prohibited.

2001-02
• A new defensive three-second rule will prohibit a defensive player from remaining in the lane for more than three consecutive seconds without closely guarding an offensive player.

2004-05
• New rules were introduced to curtail hand-checking, clarify blocking fouls and call defensive three seconds to open up the game.

2006-07
• On a clear-path-to-the-basket foul, the team that is fouled is awarded two free throw attempt and the ball on the sideline.

Hall of Famer Rick Barry, a keen observer of the game, said he would love to see players of the past getting to attack the basket under the new officiating. “They’d score a lot more,” he said.

Rod Thorn said that the NBA had changed the rule to give an advantage to the offensive player. “It’s more difficult now to guard the quick wing player who can handle the ball,” Thorn said of the change. “I think it helps skilled players over someone who just has strength or toughness. What the NBA is trying to do is promote unimpeded movement for dribblers or cutters.”

“My opinion is that the game had gone too much toward favoring strong players over skilled players,” Thorn said. “The NBA felt there was too much body, too much hand-checking, being used by defenders to the detriment of the game. There was a feeling that there was too much advantage for a defensive player who could merely use his strength to control the offensive player.” The new rules interpretations have attempted to address that issue, Thorn said. “If the refs perceive that a defender is bumping the cutter, or bumping a ball-handler, then they’ll blow their whistles.” This new way of calling became increasingly apparent with each regular-season game last year, and it really made an impression during the playoffs. Free from the physical challenge of defenders, offensive players found many more opportunities to attack the basket – and draw fouls.

As a result, the new rules interpretation helped promote the emergence immediately of a new generation of super stars, from Kobe Bryant scoring his 81 points during a regular season game, to LeBron James, Vince Carter, Gilbert Arenas and Dwyane Wade making big splashes in the playoffs. “The good wing players – LeBron, Kobe, Arenas, Wade, Carter – shot a lot of free throws with the way the game is now called,” Thorn admitted.

Offensive players were freed as never before and fans were thrilled by high-scoring games. Television ratings jumped with the excitement, and reporters began filing stories signaling an NBA revival not seen since the days when Jordan played for the Bulls. The league had made an obvious move to try to pick up scoring averages that had been in decline since the late 1980s. And it seems to have worked.

Tex Winter, now 84 and the veteran of more than a half century of coaching, has serious misgivings about what the league has done. Winter acknowledges the outgrowth of the new rules interpretation is the rise of the super dominant offensive player, led by Wade’s performance in the NBA Finals and Bryant’s string of 40-, 50, even 60-point games during the regular season. “It’s brought all these 40-point scorers,” Winter said. “They can’t score 40 points unless they get 15-20 free throws.” And that’s exactly what they were getting on their big nights.

those of you who know who tex winter is can see that this is 3 years old, as tex winter is now 87.
 
wrong. tobe shot exactly 40.4% under coach tomjanovich. in and of itself, it doesn't make a lot of difference. but since i pointed out that tobe shot a CAREER WORST FG% and you disputed it, then it makes a difference.

Bullshit nhe shot 43% in 04-05 and shot worse in other season to disprove your point. Go to NBA.com and look it up you said he shot a career low fg% and scoring percentage and turnovers thats what you said and I smashed that bullshit.




have you been drinking this evening? no wonder with the above impaired reasoning and convoluted thinking you haven't been able to properly contribute to this thread.

you are drunk talking about Lakers are Gasol's team despite him not ever having won a playoff game in his career and Kobe being a 3 time champ. But you try and prop a whole argument against Kobe based on what 43 games of Rudy T's tenure fuck outta here thats weak and you know it.



i called coach fratello an "over-achieving midget". how did you construe that to be a diss against coach fratello? everyone who knows professional basketball (and i mean EVERYONE) knows that coach fratello brought the slow down game to modern basketball. where coach d'antoni's mantra can be "7 seconds or less", coach fratello's mantra would be "15 seconds or more". but since you don't appear to be familiar with coach fratello's work, maybe you should look into that and see if that is the reason why he has been unsuccessful in the POST season.

what about overachieving midget is complimentary, Fratello's style has been to coach to the talent always has been,in Memphis he coached the slow down walk the ballup style because they had young parts and didn;t wanna run and risk the turnovers, same thing in Cleveland with the cavs but in Atlanta they played a wide open fast break style. finishing 2nd in the league in scoring in 86-87. so please learn the game man.



when it didn't suit my argument my ass.

reading shit out of context hasn't helped you either. when i pointed out that PAU GASOL and the grizzlies came out of the MORE competitive SOUTHWEST division (4 teams in the post season) with a better regular season record and a playoff berth, i was comparing that with tobe's inability to match that feat even though the fakers were in the MUCH weaker PUSSIFIC division in 2004-05. but here you come out of left field trying to attach that comparison to coach fratello.

The Grizz were better in 04-05 because the Lakers had injury and coaching tumoil all season long and the next year the Lakers had kwame brown and Smush Parker starting for them and still managed to win 3 playoff games something you still haven;t countered with an argument once again Gasol hadn;t won a playoff game till he came to the Lakers yet its supposed to be his team according to you based on what exactly.


when i pointed out that PAU GASOL and the grizzlies finished 2005-06 with a better regular season record and a 4 seed, i was comparing that with tobe's inability to match that feat in 2005-06. but here you come out of left field trying to attach that comparison to coach fratello.

:smh:

and this is the dumbest post of all. despite haing much less team Kobe still took the higher seeded team to the Brink and gasol got swept.

Now explain to me again how gasol's 49 win team got swept out of the playoffs again. and Kobe's 45 win team won 3 games. explain that to me.

yet Lakers are gasol's team lol despite him being a 2 time allstar and a guy who hadn;t won a single playoff game.

Just admit you made a mistake and I'll back down.
 
i have no beef with J, but it's pretty clear he's a superficial basketball fan.

dude googled tobe's FG% for 2004-05 and cited the entire season even though we were CLEARLY and SPECIFICALLY referring to only the time under coach tomjanovich.

Bullshit nhe shot 43% in 04-05 and shot worse in other season to disprove your point. Go to NBA.com and look it up you said he shot a career low fg% and scoring percentage and turnovers thats what you said and I smashed that bullshit.

thanks for owning yourself, as you just proved my claim true.

:cool:
 
despite haing much less team Kobe still took the higher seeded team to the Brink and gasol got swept.

Now explain to me again how gasol's 49 win team got swept out of the playoffs again. and Kobe's 45 win team won 3 games. explain that to me.

:lol:

forget alcohol. you must be on that sherm.

you asking how the memphis grizzlies got swept in the 1st round? they had to play the eventual WESTERN CONFERENCE CHAMPION dallas mavericks. you know, the 60 win team that represented the WORSTern conference in the NBA FINALS?

you know, the SOUTHWEST division representatives that beat the PUSSIFIC division no-defense playing phoenix suns, who knocked out the no-heart fakers?

keep sonning yourself.

EDIT: i couldn't stop laughing so i had to come back and add this. J is sitting up here wondering how the grizzlies got swept by the dallas mavericks (who also eliminated the san antonio spurs). just WTF did you expect to happen with this starting lineup in the playoffs against dallas?

chucky atkins
34 year old eddie jones
shane battier
jake tsakalidis
pau gasol
 
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You can't be serious.

Sheed as one of the best post defenders in the history of the NBA :lol::lol::lol::lol:


How can you be one of the best post defensive players in league history and NEVER make and NBA All Defensive team
:rolleyes::rolleyes:

you do realize there is a difference between being a great post defender and a great defender overall which entails blocking shots weakside and getting steals. But on ball man up post defense Sheed is one of the best says Doug Collins, Tim Duncan, Shaq and Phil Jackson.

[The Pistons never had shot blockers besides Ben Wallace. Rasheed Wallace is slow horizontally so he doesn't provide great help defense. Have you ever even watched the pistons play? The Pistons were a great defensive team because they DIDN'T need help defense because every player played their fucking man. The Pistons weren't a team that funneled players to shot blockers because we only had ONE and Ben Wallace was not even a prolific shot blocker.

I hate arguing with the ignorant of basketball of course the Pistons didn;t double and trap guys on the perimeter they played tough man up defense and collapsed the paint when guys penetrated BUT you do realize that Rasheed Wallace averagd 2.0 blks and ben Wallace averaged 3.0blks per game that season man thats 5 blocks between their front line bigs thats outstanding. what the fuck are you talking about ben was the only shot blocker.Sheed averaged 2 a game that was good for top 8 in the damn league man please stop with the bullshit. They averaged almost 3 steals a game between them







[That wasn't your point. You said Kobe has had 3 good scoring game since. Ok..so fucking what....3 good scoring games in 5 years...that's nothing... Prince always gives Kobe problems and Kobe has stated this his damn self.

I said that to say Kobe blew Prince up for big games he's had other regular average games against prince the other times thats in 5 years thats 9 games 3 of them Kobe blew Prince up for big numbers he scored 30 like 2 other times Prince held him down a couple thats 9 games. stop overlapping shit saying 5 years lioke they play 4 times a season.

[And lets speak the truth about that series in 2004. The Pistons DIDN'T double-team Kobe. It is against Brown's philosophy. All we did was back up and give him the room to shoot jump shots...and Kobe with his low basketball IQ fell for the trap. Prince doesn't crowd guys and play with the body. Again...what the fuck are you watching? Prince gives players room because he has damn near the longest wingspan in the league and can recover quickly and challenge shots. I'm beginning to think you know NOTHING about the game of basketball with the garbage you are spouting in this thread.

again Bullshit in that series against the Lakers Prince crowded Kobe and bothered his jumpshot, and when Kobe drove he was forced into help you keep talking double teaming who the fuck is saying double teaming you using semantics to avoiud the point I'm making thats the defense collapsed when Kobe penetrated and forced him into bad shots and turnovers. Where is the evidence of low bball IQ where, all defense, all nba 1st team, allstar, MVP, where is the evidence of low hoops IQ,I haven't seen that, the idea that the Lakers was gonna pound the ball to Shaq and win that series are a fucking joke,they had 2 guys capable of scoring thst whole series that was it and Slava medvedenko at pf. That wasn't gonna beat any damn body especially a balanced team like the Pistons the lakers had malone at least in the Conference Finals against the Spurs but he was done in the Finals. so stop the it was Kobe's fault bullshit thats stupid one man won't cost any team a series the Lakers defense to boot wasn;t stoping shit their reserves got run the fuck off the floor against Big nasty, Okur and Mike james.



[Kobe shot 25 times a game at 38 percent. Are you saying that this is not true? The stats don't lie.That is the very definition of shooting your team out of a series. And we aren't even talking all of his turnovers..leading his team 4 out of 5 games.


25 shots a game at 38 percent for the series. 17 percent from the three point line. Shit is not in my mind. Shit is in the record books idiot :lol:

Kobe had a poor series as did the whole fucking team and our non existant defense you are latching on to the Kobe factor like a bone to hate the man and pin the whole shit on him when thats hardly the case Billups ripped our pg's out the frame, the Pisons had balance defense and bench over the Lakers we had Kobe struggling, Shaq who wasn;t playing an ounce of defense in the pick and roll later revealed as a severe weakness of his.

Bone up on the game my man.please.
 
:lol:

forget alcohol. you must be on that sherm.

you asking how the memphis grizzlies got swept in the 1st round? they had to play the eventual WESTERN CONFERENCE CHAMPION dallas mavericks. you know, the 60 win team that represented the WORSTern conference in the NBA FINALS?

you know, the SOUTHWEST division representatives that beat the PUSSIFIC division no-defense playing phoenix suns, who knocked out the no-heart fakers?

keep sonning yourself.

EDIT: i couldn't stop laughing so i had to come back and add this. J is sitting up here wondering how the grizzlies got swept by the dallas mavericks (who also eliminated the san antonio spurs). just WTF did you expect to happen with this starting lineup in the playoffs against dallas?

chucky atkins
34 year old eddie jones
shane battier
jake tsakalidis
pau gasol

LOL are you high

come on man

are you leavbing out Mike Miller, and Bobby Jackson for a reason or are your purposely not naming them in your brekadown. so a team that has 7 players in double figures can't win 1 fucking game 1 game. lol against a soft ass mavs team. same Mavs team that same year that Kobe outscored by himself for 3 quarters man please back away from the pipe man.

nice try though lol

Oh and whats the reason for not winning a SINGLE GAME a single game the year before in 04-05 and the year before in 03-04

what reason did they not win a game then I'm sayingn one fucking game.

Not the series but 1 game.

and to this the player who led them to no career playoff wins is now the head of the Lakers team.

Please and forever shut this shit the fuck up.

go away man you are done smoking wooties now.
 
thanks for owning yourself, as you just proved my claim true.

:cool:

so wait you are standing on firm ground on a theory regarding 43 games. lol is that what you are doing here.

okay pre Phil jackson del harris season Kobe 19.9 ppg 46% free throw shooting.

and what now I'm gonna deflate every argument you make. he averaged 20 a game shooting 46 percent.

now explain to me this Kobe away from Phil jackson theory again thats when he was still a young player. on 15 shots per game.

go to sleep. idiot.
 
Now explain to me again how gasol's 49 win team got swept out of the playoffs again. and Kobe's 45 win team won 3 games. explain that to me.

yet Lakers are gasol's team lol despite him being a 2 time allstar and a guy who hadn;t won a single playoff game.

Just admit you made a mistake and I'll back down.


Forget the records, Gasol makes the Triangle Offense efficient, he can pass ,has good mid range shot and his basketball IQ is up there, not forgetting he's a Efficient player.. it's funny how lakers went from being scrubs to title contenders with the addition of gasol. he reminds me of lakers winning rings with shaq, only difference is Gasol is lanky. :lol:
 
okay pre Phil jackson del harris season Kobe 19.9 ppg 46% free throw shooting.

i need to go to sleep. i am an idiot.

fixed it for you.

son, coach harris does not equal coach tomjanovich. can't you address the point? what's the matter, google button not working for you?

why you trying to squirm your way out?

can't stay on point?

this is grown folks talking, kid. go to sleep quick.
 
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