What if atheism actually wins the argument?

GAMETHEORY

Rising Star
BGOL Investor
The future: reason has won, atheism is The New Way, and religion is confined to the dustbin of history, along with Flat Earth, a heliocentric universe, etc.

What will be the implications of this? All positive, or could there be negative ones?
 
The future: reason has won, atheism is The New Way, and religion is confined to the dustbin of history, along with Flat Earth, a heliocentric universe, etc.

What will be the implications of this? All positive, or could there be negative ones?

Atheists would form factions much like religions, arguing over the same premise but with their different rules. Some how they would grow to hate each other.

It would be like a new religion, people will always find a reason to kill and fight.
 
Psalm 14
1 The fool says in his heart,
"There is no God."
They are corrupt, their deeds are vile;
there is no one who does good.
 
I would never think I just popped up from nothing and will die to nothing.

anyone who thinks like that is fool
 
If that's the case, then this is that society looks like this...

Huxley_brave_new_world_small.jpg


For those of you who have not read Brave New World, don't sleep on it because it is an intellectual awakening.
 
Atheists would form factions much like religions, arguing over the same premise but with their different rules. Some how they would grow to hate each other.

It would be like a new religion, people will always find a reason to kill and fight.

When faced with the hard truth, religion naturally retreats into less rigid forms of superstition like crystal healing, water-divining, homeopathy, tarot, etc. Those who want to believe that there is something else out there than the natural world will just find something else to fill the void in their minds.

As long as it doesn't lead to more suffering, I don't really have a problem with any of that.

However, as atheists are naturally more charitable and sociable than the religious, we will probably see a stronger, more self-aware society evolve.

I think universal atheism is important to our survival as a species.
 
I would never think I just popped up from nothing and will die to nothing.

anyone who thinks like that is fool

Anyone who thinks that idea has anything to do with atheism is a fool. No one, religious or non-religious thinks anything came from nothing. Or atleast I hope so.
 
When faced with the hard truth, religion naturally retreats into less rigid forms of superstition like crystal healing, water-divining, homeopathy, tarot, etc. Those who want to believe that there is something else out there than the natural world will just find something else to fill the void in their minds.

As long as it doesn't lead to more suffering, I don't really have a problem with any of that.

However, as atheists are naturally more charitable and sociable than the religious, we will probably see a stronger, more self-aware society evolve.

I think universal atheism is important to our survival as a species.

I am agnostic, so I say I have no proof either way, and it sure as hell aint no religious fables.

So I have a problem with religious folks and atheists, how can atheists no there is no god? How can religious folks just KNOW there is one.

If ATHEISTS took over they would hinder free thinking just like these religious nuts.

I believe AGNOSTIC is the way society needs to go.
 
I dont see what the big deal would be. What has believing in god benefited people so far. Most wars are conducted because of religious reasons. Religion is behind a lot of the desent and mistrust most humans have for each other. Most religions enslave you to an idea or belief system that more-n-likely does not benefit your growth and progress as a man. Sadly most religions with-in themselves have strife and emmity. For instance you have the baptist which are then broken down into several faction( i.e. southern baptist, northern, londonetc.) Same goes for muslim's and Jews.

People are so quick to worry what the world would be like if the majority didn't believe in god, I simply ask what good has belief in god did for us.
 
:lol::lol:

I never understood how two Atheists can be in the room at the same time?

Shouldn't one of them murder the other. There is no consequence!? An people just generally piss you off. In a disagreement, as atheist, fuck it, might makes right.

I mean, to me, if there was no God, no law, I'd be fucking Ghengis Khan in this bitch.

I'd be dead by 20, because there'd be so many vendettas against me, for all the people I slaughtered on a whim.

The nature of man is an inner savage, say what you want about religions, but the human race would not survive with a complete lack of any sense of consequence!

Fuck it, all you can die and I dine to the lamentation of your women! :lol::lol:
 
I dont see what the big deal would be. What has believing in god benefited people so far. Most wars are conducted because of religious reasons. Religion is behind a lot of the desent and mistrust most humans have for each other. Most religions enslave you to an idea or belief system that more-n-likely does not benefit your growth and progress as a man. Sadly most religions with-in themselves have strife and emmity. For instance you have the baptist which are then broken down into several faction( i.e. southern baptist, northern, londonetc.) Same goes for muslim's and Jews.

People are so quick to worry what the world would be like if the majority didn't believe in god, I simply ask what good has belief in god did for us.
Nothing. God should only be a philosophical idea, nothing more than that.
 
The future: reason has won, atheism is The New Way, and religion is confined to the dustbin of history, along with Flat Earth, a heliocentric universe, etc.

What will be the implications of this? All positive, or could there be negative ones?

The implications of a world devoid of Christ influence will most certainly reflect a negative society. Many are succeeding in their quest to bring your hypothetical scenario to light as we speak. As true elements of science are replacing for many the trueness of faith, so will come a sterility and coldness about us (is it here already?).

Also will be lost completely are the bonds which hold humanity together. The compassions taught by Religions in general - gone -, the basic laws which have governed civilizations allowing us to progress to where we are - gone -. In this new reality, you can look forward to more devastation, poverty, pain, anger, greed, & hatred, less sympathy, peace, forgiveness and all which is good.


John 14:6

Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."
 
:lol::lol:

I never understood how two Atheists can be in the room at the same time?

Shouldn't one of them murder the other. There is no consequence!? An people just generally piss you off. In a disagreement, as atheist, fuck it, might makes right.

I mean, to me, if there was no God, no law, I'd be fucking Ghengis Khan in this bitch.

I'd be dead by 20, because there'd be so many vendettas against me, for all the people I slaughtered on a whim.

The nature of man is an inner savage, say what you want about religions, but the human race would not survive with a complete lack of any sense of consequence!

Fuck it, all you can die and I dine to the lamentation of your women! :lol::lol:

come on shane, you know full well that there are plenty of christians that will murder someone while wearing a crucifix. Religion and the threat of hell is not necessary for people to know that certain things like killing and stealing are wrong.

There's nothing wrong with subscribing to a religion, but to believe that without it, people would start killing each other off (any more than they already do now) dosen't make any sense.
 
Atheism can never reach a point where it "wins" the argument because there is no "finish line" to the argument. No matter what arguments are advanced in favor of atheism there will always be a group of people (including myself) that will believe in God because that belief is based on faith and not necessarily on practical observable evidence as in science (even though some would say there is practical obvious evidence of God [including myself]).
 
i am an agnostic as well. i think that most are scared of the fact that after we die that might be it. there's no proof for atheism or religion. my wife and family are religious and i really see the religion thing as a car salesman. they make you think you are gettin a good deal........but would they be honest and tell you if you werent.......no!

the church is so desparate to reinforce ignorance on the masses. you got the madea plays, high-tech sermons, etc. i think jesus was a remarkable man, no doubt. but i dont think that he would have wanted all that is done in his name to be done.

how come whenever a religious person tries to make a logical argument involving science they make themselves look stupid. then they try to shame/persuade you to adopt their beliefs.

im a grown ass man and this stuff has been pushed on me my whole life. what do they honestly think they can say that would change mind?

sorry about the reading
 
The future: reason has won, atheism is The New Way, and religion is confined to the dustbin of history, along with Flat Earth, a heliocentric universe, etc.

What will be the implications of this? All positive, or could there be negative ones?

Wow, impressive question. I doubt religion would ever be dusted under the carpet.
#1 I think it's impossible to argue there is no god. One will always ask, who created the first thing.
#2 People are being brainwashed from birth to believe what they believe. Have you ever tried to reason with an alcoholic or someone feening for their next hit? It would have to take some old Spanish Inquisition type shit to get people to change. When we become active space-farers, we'll see religious text changing accordingly.

Now, some people are trying to argue, without religion, we'd be running around killing each other and that there'd be utter chaos everywhere. The same argument could be made for Religion. People have done some pretty nasty things in the name of religion. Furthermore, people break, or commit sins, all the damn time. Also, if religion is keeping us all in check, why arent atheist out there killing cats right now?

To answer the question, I think we'd be better off. It was a pretty good stepping stone to get us to where we are.
 
"The foundation of irreligious criticism is: Man makes religion, religion does not make man.

Religion is, indeed, the self-consciousness and self-esteem of man who has either not yet won through to himself, or has already lost himself again. But, man is no abstract being squatting outside the world. Man is the world of man — state, society. This state and this society produce religion, which is an inverted consciousness of the world, because they are an inverted world. Religion is the general theory of this world, its encyclopaedic compendium, its logic in popular form, its spiritual point d'honneur, it enthusiasm, its moral sanction, its solemn complement, and its universal basis of consolation and justification. It is the fantastic realization of the human essence since the human essence has not acquired any true reality. The struggle against religion is, therefore, indirectly the struggle against that world whose spiritual aroma is religion.

Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.

The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo.

Criticism has plucked the imaginary flowers on the chain not in order that man shall continue to bear that chain without fantasy or consolation, but so that he shall throw off the chain and pluck the living flower. The criticism of religion disillusions man, so that he will think, act, and fashion his reality like a man who has discarded his illusions and regained his senses, so that he will move around himself as his own true Sun. Religion is only the illusory Sun which revolves around man as long as he does not revolve around himself.

It is, therefore, the task of history, once the other-world of truth has vanished, to establish the truth of this world. It is the immediate task of philosophy, which is in the service of history, to unmask self-estrangement in its unholy forms once the holy form of human self-estrangement has been unmasked. Thus, the criticism of Heaven turns into the criticism of Earth, the criticism of religion into the criticism of law, and the criticism of theology into the criticism of politics."

- From the introduction to the Critique of Hegel's Philosophy of Right.
 
Atheism can never reach a point where it "wins" the argument because there is no "finish line" to the argument. No matter what arguments are advanced in favor of atheism there will always be a group of people (including myself) that will believe in God because that belief is based on faith and not necessarily on practical observable evidence as in science (even though some would say there is practical obvious evidence of God [including myself]).

There most certainly can be a "finish line." Certain religious groups believed the sun was the center of the universe. After having that belief shattered, scientist continued on, religion was forced to adapt. The thing is, Atheist may very well prove their point and win their argument. A fact is a fact whether a religious person accepts it or not.
 
I am agnostic, so I say I have no proof either way, and it sure as hell aint no religious fables.

So I have a problem with religious folks and atheists, how can atheists no there is no god? How can religious folks just KNOW there is one.

If ATHEISTS took over they would hinder free thinking just like these religious nuts.

I believe AGNOSTIC is the way society needs to go.

I agree up to a point. Just to add,according to Christianity hell exists and you can end up in it. God cant claim to give man free will and then coerce man with threats which is what hell is. This is my problem with religions and God
 
Nobody Wins, Nobody Loses, It Comes Down To The Individual and What They Are Comfortable And At Peace With
 
:lol::lol:

I never understood how two Atheists can be in the room at the same time?

Shouldn't one of them murder the other. There is no consequence!? An people just generally piss you off. In a disagreement, as atheist, fuck it, might makes right.

I mean, to me, if there was no God, no law, I'd be fucking Ghengis Khan in this bitch.

I'd be dead by 20, because there'd be so many vendettas against me, for all the people I slaughtered on a whim.

The nature of man is an inner savage, say what you want about religions, but the human race would not survive with a complete lack of any sense of consequence!

Fuck it, all you can die and I dine to the lamentation of your women! :lol::lol:
So you're saying that only fear of God can keep people in line?

If that's the case, you wouldn't be the moderator on a porn board (if you really believe in God with a capital G and his list of do's and don'ts.)

I think the idea of a social contract helps keep people in line. Two atheists can be in the same room for the same reason two fake Christians can be in the same room-- might triumphs... but you never know who'll be in the next room.
 
The future: reason has won, atheism is The New Way, and religion is confined to the dustbin of history, along with Flat Earth, a heliocentric universe, etc.

What will be the implications of this? All positive, or could there be negative ones?
The only way one argument can totally win out and another confined is totalitarianism and mental slavery. So things would be worse in your hypothetical.

I'd like to see a more agnostic majority, though. People who aren't dead certain they know everything (at least with regard to the billion years old mysteries which have caused arbitrary divisions for millenia now).
 
I agree up to a point. Just to add,according to Christianity hell exists and you can end up in it. God cant claim to give man free will and then coerce man with threats which is what hell is. This is my problem with religions and God


The problem of course is that you have boxed yourself into a judgment of all religion based solely on your analysis of Judeo-Christianity. Given this circumference to work within I can certainly appreciate your "problem with religions".

Many religions are still stumbling for the solution to the enigma of a kindly and loving God who has yet created evil and is tempting man with it. Now, it is obvious that there is nothing kindly or loving about a God who visits disease and pain, poverty and suffering upon His/Her children, any more than there is anything beneficent about a deity who creates evil so that he can burn in hell those he manages to tempt with it. The very plain fact is manifest. If God is a God of love, He did not create evil. And so with the entire hideous conception of the devil and hell. If God created a "devil" and hell, S/He would have to know that S/He was going to send some of His/Her children there, and it even follows that He/She would have a pretty good idea who they would be. So that would give us a God who created the temptation, who created, supposedly, persons unable to resist it, and who precondemned them to an eternal residence in the furnaces of "satan". This is ridiculous of course.

But as far as our earthly existence is concerned, if we believe in evil, we experience evil; if we believe in disease, we experience disease; if we believe in hell and the devil, we suffer all the tortures they offer each time we fall from what our own minds considers to be grace.

All that we perceive as evil, enemies, horrors etc are the vehicles through which we find our divinity. The strength trainer does not lament the resistance offered to him by the weight in front of him. he welcomes it, he goes to the gym each day looking for the challenge that the weight offers KNOWING that it alone will build the strength and power they seek. So to we must not lament the challenges that earthly life presents for they are the resistance that will assist us in building spiritual strength and power. The strongest among us SEEK this knowing that with each challenge overcome is a step closer to living as God on earth. And by extension the more of us that are able to meet our challenges in life the greater will Gods presence and power be felt on this world.

God only creates and S/He creates without the knowledge of good and evil. Each human being is the living embodiment of God and that each human being creates through thought. The subconscious mind is a garden, and like the garden of the earth that knows only to cause things to grow, the garden of the so called subconscious mind knows only to create reality from the seed of thought. Whether this thought is moral or immoral, ethical or unethical has nothing whatever to do with the inexorable process involved. The seed having been planted must grow, and grow it will, into physical fact, unless the seed itself is uprooted and another planted in its stead. What have you conceived in this garden for your brother/sister what have they for you?


ONE
 
BELIEF:
1) an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists : his belief in God | a belief that solitude nourishes creativity.
• something one accepts as true or real; a firmly held opinion or conviction : c.ontrary to popular belief, Aramaic is a living language | we're prepared to fight for our beliefs.
See note at opinion .
• a religious conviction : Christian beliefs | I'm afraid to say belief has gone | local beliefs and customs.
2) ( belief in) trust, faith, or confidence in someone or something : a belief in democratic politics | I've still got belief in myself.

AGNOSTIC:
a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena; a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God.

ATHEIST:
the theory or belief that God does not exist.

There won't be a winner. This is the reason why...

We ALL believe in something. It's not very simple but it is straight to the point. You can look at the definitions of what you are and come to your own conclusion, however, you can't walk away from belief. That is a large part of what makes us human.

I BELIEVE that belief in a supreme being and atheism will always coexist...just like there is a protagonist there is an antagonist; where there is ambition there is adversity, doubt and insecurity; where there is a quest for answers there was a question that started it all; where there is adversity there is success as well as failure. The point is that they each drive one another...

Look at science in it's purest form. It IS atheistic because it doesn't take into account that there is a GOD who factors into any of its complex equations, laws, or theories. However, many of those discoveries would have never been sparked if it weren't for some of the BELIEFS of religious dogma that ascribed to things being a certain way. Vice versa, Religion (yes, with a capital R) would have never made some corrections into how science factors into the GOD equation if it weren't for people that thought differently, even some who were self proclaimed atheist.

So to answer your question, no there is no winner to the argument. There is room for all beliefs, they just shouldn't be pushed onto people nor cause agendas that stagnate right thinking.
 
The problem of course is that you have boxed yourself into a judgment of all religion based solely on your analysis of Judeo-Christianity. Given this circumference to work within I can certainly appreciate your "problem with religions".

Many religions are still stumbling for the solution to the enigma of a kindly and loving God who has yet created evil and is tempting man with it. Now, it is obvious that there is nothing kindly or loving about a God who visits disease and pain, poverty and suffering upon His/Her children, any more than there is anything beneficent about a deity who creates evil so that he can burn in hell those he manages to tempt with it. The very plain fact is manifest. If God is a God of love, He did not create evil. And so with the entire hideous conception of the devil and hell. If God created a "devil" and hell, S/He would have to know that S/He was going to send some of His/Her children there, and it even follows that He/She would have a pretty good idea who they would be. So that would give us a God who created the temptation, who created, supposedly, persons unable to resist it, and who precondemned them to an eternal residence in the furnaces of "satan". This is ridiculous of course.

But as far as our earthly existence is concerned, if we believe in evil, we experience evil; if we believe in disease, we experience disease; if we believe in hell and the devil, we suffer all the tortures they offer each time we fall from what our own minds considers to be grace.

All that we perceive as evil, enemies, horrors etc are the vehicles through which we find our divinity. The strength trainer does not lament the resistance offered to him by the weight in front of him. he welcomes it, he goes to the gym each day looking for the challenge that the weight offers KNOWING that it alone will build the strength and power they seek. So to we must not lament the challenges that earthly life presents for they are the resistance that will assist us in building spiritual strength and power. The strongest among us SEEK this knowing that with each challenge overcome is a step closer to living as God on earth. And by extension the more of us that are able to meet our challenges in life the greater will Gods presence and power be felt on this world.

God only creates and S/He creates without the knowledge of good and evil. Each human being is the living embodiment of God and that each human being creates through thought. The subconscious mind is a garden, and like the garden of the earth that knows only to cause things to grow, the garden of the so called subconscious mind knows only to create reality from the seed of thought. Whether this thought is moral or immoral, ethical or unethical has nothing whatever to do with the inexorable process involved. The seed having been planted must grow, and grow it will, into physical fact, unless the seed itself is uprooted and another planted in its stead. What have you conceived in this garden for your brother/sister what have they for you?


ONE


I see that you ascribe to the philosophy of Charles Haanel. I believe his exercises to be useful in ways, however, his "scientific" proofs or validity for certain beliefs of his leave much to be desired. Maybe it can be attributed to his time in history, maybe not. The verdict is still out.
 
Atheists would form factions much like religions, arguing over the same premise but with their different rules. Some how they would grow to hate each other.

It would be like a new religion, people will always find a reason to kill and fight.

South Park did a brilliant little parody of this very premise last season.
 
I see that you ascribe to the philosophy of Charles Haanel. I believe his exercises to be useful in ways, however, his "scientific" proofs or validity for certain beliefs of his leave much to be desired. Maybe it can be attributed to his time in history, maybe not. The verdict is still out.

Actually never heard of Haanel until you mentioned him. Will look into his writing. I don't subscribe to the philosophy behind "The Secret" the science of spirit is simply more complex then simply positive thinking or belief - this is but one step in the process.
 
The future: reason has won, atheism is The New Way, and religion is confined to the dustbin of history, along with Flat Earth, a heliocentric universe, etc.

What will be the implications of this? All positive, or could there be negative ones?

I'm agnostic myself.

Religion will probably never go extinct, they'll just practice in smaller numbers. People still believe and practice Roman mythology, over 2200 years old, just not as many as in the past.

The cornerstone of any society is some economic, political, and social ideology to hold it together. We can't knock the benefits of religion over man's history. It is another system of control, just like government and money. These institutions of control is what allows man to build societies and communities. Because without them, we must all admit, people would continue to fuck over each other, more than we do now.

Religion is going the way of the dinosaur, but it must be replaced by new social institutions, controls, or ideology. That is my main issue with atheist.

If religion disappears from our society - with no social replacement, leaving only an economic and political aspects - what will our concepts of morality, ethics, family, right and wrong be based upon.

Atheists would form factions much like religions, arguing over the same premise but with their different rules. Some how they would grow to hate each other.

It would be like a new religion, people will always find a reason to kill and fight.

I definitely think that is the way we are going. The new social institutions that are created to replace religion, will be a source in the future to fight over. Man will use any excuse to kill each other.
 
In this case i tend to agree with Karl Marx who made some valid points on religion.However I would also acknowledge that Christiantiy does not have the same social force as it did in the 19th century. For example, church attendance figures have declined markedly, and the content of sermons has changed from the truth of the Bible to the concerns of today such as animal rights, environmental degradation, etc.


Nevertheless Marx is criticised the religious outlook as one that interprets the world from an extra-terrestrial vantage point - the religious outlook is an estranged outlook. He wants humanity to discard these illusions such as the belief in an afterlife, in order to concentrate on improving real life, hence the criticism of religion must turn into the criticism of earth.
 
Atheism is not necessairly the polar opposite of religious beliefs. The big difference between atheists and religious ideology is that atheism is up for change. When new evidence presents itself then people who are atheists will conform to that belief until other evidence presentsa more compelling case. Atheism is not absolute, and if there is undeniable proof of the existence of a god or gods then those who are atheist welcome it.
 
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