{~}Official 2023/2024 NBA Thread - 2024 Summer League, USA Hoops

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Someone post a clip of LeBron flopping this season. Should be easy to do since he does it so much right? Here's a clip of the guy everyone in this thread says deserves MVP doing it THIS SEASON. Took 2 seconds to find...



Let me know if y'all wanna see Joker doing it too.
 

If Knicks’ Mitchell Robinson is done for season, who could New York target to replace him?​

NEW YORK, NEW YORK - DECEMBER 20: Day'Ron Sharpe #20 of the Brooklyn Nets goes to the basket as Isaiah Hartenstein #55 of the New York Knicks defends during the first half at Barclays Center on December 20, 2023 in the Brooklyn borough of New York City. NOTE TO USER: User expressly acknowledges and agrees that, by downloading and/or using this Photograph, user is consenting to the terms and conditions of the Getty Images License Agreement. (Photo by Sarah Stier/Getty Images)

By Fred Katz
Dec 21, 2023


The plan was to be patient.
When the New York Knicks figured ankle surgery would keep Mitchell Robinson out at least eight to 10 weeks, the group planned to wait on its starting center’s return without scrambling for a short-term solution.
The team believed in Isaiah Hartenstein, one of the NBA’s best backup centers, and the usual third-stringer Jericho Sims to pick up the slack. The timetable was set for Robinson to return with a good chunk of the season remaining. A re-evaluation was supposed to come between Feb. 5 and 19. And the Knicks were far from panic mode.
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They were not jostling to trade for another center, league sources said. The Knicks have been quiet on the phones this season, acknowledging that it’s not worth dealing a regular contributor if it doesn’t mean adding a significant upgrade.
But now, there is new context. It’s too early to know if the Knicks’ philosophy will change, but if the implications of Wednesday’s news are correct, how could it not?
The Knicks have applied for the Disabled Player Exception for Robinson, The Athletic’s Shams Charania reported Wednesday shortly after New York polished off a 121-102 victory over the Brooklyn Nets.
Teams can apply for the DPE if one of their players suffers a long-term injury. It’s worth half the player’s salary (in this case, $7.8 million) and can act as a trade or free-agent exception, which we’ll explain in a moment.
For now, let’s concentrate on the shocking part of this: For a team to receive the DPE, the NBA’s doctors must determine that the player in question will more likely than not be out through June 15. Surely, the Knicks wouldn’t apply for this exception if they expected Robinson back far sooner than that. And such is the dagger to the heart of a team that sits at 16-11, fifth in the Eastern Conference, with a chance to win a playoff series for the second consecutive season.
The implication is that Robinson, who underwent surgery on his left ankle last week, could miss more than just eight to 10 weeks. And if his return is not expected until at least June 15, approximately four months longer than previously thought, the Knicks’ approach to the trade deadline has to change.
Hartenstein, Robinson’s backup, can’t play 48 minutes — though he may very well try, considering usual third-string center, Jericho Sims, is out for at least a week and a half with a sprained ankle. This team has aspirations beyond just making the playoffs. It wants to go deep into them once again.


That won’t be easy with Hartenstein, one of the league’s best backup centers, and either Sims or Taj Gibson receiving all the minutes at center.
At some point, a move could come. The question is, what type makes sense?
The news is an unfortunate blow to Robinson, who was in the midst of his best-ever season, guarding at an NBA All-Defense level and pulling down a higher percentage of available offensive rebounds than any other player in the league. Few people in existence fill the 25-year-old’s role — top-notch rim protection and pick-and-roll defense along with relentless rebounding and screening — as well as Robinson does. And the ones who do, aren’t available on the trade market.
But there are centers the Knicks could target, some who could hypothetically play behind Hartenstein and others who could place the lefty back in his former reserve role.
First, let’s discuss the possibility of a new resource, the Disabled Player Exception, which the Knicks applied for this week. If the NBA grants them the DPE, they could sign or trade for a player who makes up to half of Robinson’s salary, $7.8 million, this season without sending any money out. If they sign a player using the DPE, it must be to a one-year contract. If they trade for one using the DPE, that player must be on an expiring contract.
Trade candidates, ones who either aren’t playing much or are on expiring contracts with losing teams, who fit the description include Andre Drummond, Bismack Biyombo and Xavier Tillman. The Sacramento Kings employ a couple of veteran centers who don’t play much and would fit into the DPE: Alex Len and JaVale McGee. Meanwhile, the LA Clippers are winning with Mason Plumlee hurt but expect him back before the trade deadline. His contract makes him eligible for a DPE trade, too.
All of these players would presumably back up Hartenstein, not start over him. Of course, the Knicks could find help in other ways.
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They have Evan Fournier’s big contract, which they could flip along with a draft pick or two for someone on a bulky salary, making a deal without expelling anyone from the current rotation.
It’s important to remember that if the Knicks scour the market for a Robinson replacement, they wouldn’t be looking for someone who plays his position as much as they’d need someone who can fill his role.
The Chicago Bulls have cratered to the bottom of the Eastern Conference (though they’ve been winning ever since Zach LaVine got hurt), which has made people wonder about the availability of their starting center, Nikola Vučević. He plays the same position as Robinson but doesn’t contribute in the same way. Especially because of how head coach Tom Thibodeau values rim protection, an offense-first 7-footer who struggles both defending deep in the paint and outside of it is not the prototype for this roster.
New York’s defense has stumbled without Robinson, though the past two games, a couple of wins over the Los Angeles Lakers and Nets, have been much improved. Adding a player like Vučević to the mix would not help — and that’s without even mentioning that he is under contract for two more years after this one, making around $20 million a season.
That player-friendly contract would eat into the Knicks’ flexibility once Robinson returns.
So let’s rule out the Vučević archetype, which also means saying no to cheaper options, such as Christian Wood. The Detroit Pistons can’t win a game and employ 472 centers, but they don’t fit New York’s preferred identity, either. Jalen Duren is too good and too young to trade. Isaiah Stewart received a contract extension before this season, which makes a deal for him nearly impossible. Marvin Bagley isn’t the defender the Knicks would require, and former No. 2 overall pick James Wiseman is yet to prove he can contribute to a winning team.
So, who could the Knicks target?


Maybe they call the Atlanta Hawks about Clint Capela, considering the Hawks just extended promising, young big man Onyeka Okongwu. Less than a week ago, Atlanta experimented with starting the two centers together, but Okongwu isn’t a power forward. Dealing Capela — who has another year on his contract, owed $20.6 million in 2023-24 and $22.3 million in 2024-25 — could open up playing time for the younger Okongwu. Atlanta is only 12-15 and could look to save money if it remains outside the playoff picture.
Of course, the Knicks would need to figure out how to handle Capela’s contract reaching into next season, considering they may have to flip him elsewhere in the upcoming summer.
Chances are a trade — if one comes at all — would not come tomorrow or the day after.
There’s a reason trades are rare in December and common in February, and it’s not just because the NBA is filled with procrastinators. Bartering around the league has been particularly quiet this autumn, partly because so many teams believe they have a chance at the playoffs. But as the standings widen and certain organizations with hopes of the No. 8 seed drop, buyers and sellers will become clearer.
On top of that, front offices are in no rush to trade any of their guys now, which means taking a common approach: If another general manager calls asking about a player, then the rule of thumb is to demand a boatload in return. The asking price can lessen as the Feb. 8 trade deadline nears.
For example, let’s say the Knicks were into Goga Bitadze, who has filled in as the Orlando Magic’s starting center with Wendell Carter Jr. missing most of this season. Bitadze, who is on an expiring $2 million salary, has morphed from a stretch five into a physical paint presence under head coach Jamahl Mosley. He’d fit with New York.
But guess where else he fits … Orlando.


Why should the Magic entertain an offer for Bitadze today just to receive a couple of measly second-round picks when Carter Jr. could get hurt again or Jonathan Isaac’s unfortunate injury history could pop up or another fluke occurrence could derail their big men? On top of that, Orlando is good, a spot above the Knicks in the standings. Why should it help out New York just for giggles?
That type of logic applies to others around the league, too.
Nic Claxton — a rim-diving, shot-swatting center who has oft drawn stylistic comparisons to Robinson — would provide a seamless fit in the Knicks’ starting role and is on an expiring $9.6 million salary. But the Nets love his game. They’re fighting for a Play-In Tournament spot and could keep him in free agency. History suggests that a crosstown trade of any type is less than likely, as well.
So the Knicks go down the list.
Zach Collins would be an ideal get, but the San Antonio Spurs just extended him, meaning he is not eligible to be traded until after the season.
Kelly Olynyk, who’s on an expiring $12.2 million deal with the Utah Jazz, doesn’t fit the defensive criteria the Knicks could want, but he would be a wonderful contributor with a second unit that loves to play fast, considering he’s not just a center with a jumper; he’s also a playmaker.
Precious Achiuwa is an energetic big man having a bounceback season and will be a restricted free agent next summer. The league is waiting to learn what direction the Toronto Raptors take. They currently sit at 11-16 and have three upcoming free agents more consequential than Achiuwa: Pascal Siakam, OG Anunoby and Gary Trent Jr.
If they decimate the roster come the deadline, maybe Achiuwa is gettable. But the Knicks also are suing the Raptors in federal court. Would those two teams make a trade, given all the legal feud?


There’s another route the Knicks could take, too. If Hartenstein, who is a free agent after this season, plays well with Robinson hurt, he may become too expensive for the Knicks to re-sign in a reserve role. If New York wanted to, it could trade for someone it views as a short-term backup to Hartenstein and a long-term backup to Robinson.
Maybe the Knicks could pry away a player from a team at the bottom of the standings.
Nick Richards of the Charlotte Hornets has a couple of years remaining at $5 million a pop after this one. Daniel Gafford of the Washington Wizards makes $12.4 million this season with $1 million raises in 2024-25 and 2025-26. Gafford, especially, would fit into the Robinson role well — a rim-protecting, athletic, picking-and-rolling center.
They could take a swing on P.J. Tucker, who is out of the Clippers’ rotation, is imminently available and has succeeded as an undersized center before. But Tucker is also 38 years old, has faltered this season and has an $11.5 million player option for 2024-25 that he’d almost surely pick up.
Yet, even after dropping all these names, it’s too early to know how the market for centers forms.
One team with a formidable center could crash and burn, allowing the Knicks to swipe that guy away. Or maybe a young guy with another team usurps the role of a veteran center that could help the Knicks, which could change the market.
The situation in New York is evolving, too. Maybe Sims gets in a groove backing up Hartenstein once he returns. Or the Knicks could watch the next month and decide they’re too far away to sacrifice any of their future just to bring in a patch-up center.
Either way, the next few weeks will be about the big men already in New York: Hartenstein, Gibson and, once he returns from the ankle sprain, Sims. Maybe Julius Randle plays some small-ball center. Heck, Thibodeau tried that for a few possessions in the Nets game.
 
Hopefully that's where Nick Nurse makes a difference


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Yeah, this team is built different but they have to play differently as well with their mentally changed when it comes to the playoffs. So, it's gonna be interesting how this team plays under nurse in the playoffs. Because like I said, the playoffs is a different animal compared to the regular season..
 
Dude really trying to dig up shit about embiid flopping because I hate when he does that shit too.

Dude really said he hates flopping but Embiid is the star of his favorite team and he blows Joker regularly, FOH!!!!

That clip I had to "dig up" of Embiid is from 4 days ago. :lol:
 
Dude really said he hates flopping but Embiid is the star of his favorite team and he blows Joker regularly, FOH!!!!

That clip I had to "dig up" of Embiid is from 4 days ago. :lol:
Nah, you really trying to start a war with this flopping shit, just because ya daddy on the Lakers does it, you're trying to get others to agree with that shit using embiid as an example to try to fit your narrative of why a big 280 lb players flops so much. I already said if refs call fouls like they should then players wouldn't have to resort to flopping because I hate that flopping shit which makes a player soft falling down after being touched when there wasn't hardly any contact.
 
Nah, you really trying to start a war with this flopping shit, just because ya daddy on the Lakers does it, you're trying to get others to agree with that shit using embiid as an example to try to fit your narrative of why a big 280 lb players flops so much. I already said if refs call fouls like they should then players wouldn't have to resort to flopping because I hate that flopping shit which makes a player soft falling down after being touched when there wasn't hardly any contact.

LeBron doesnt flop. Again, if he does, post a clip like I did. You can't and wont. And Embiid shoots more free throws than any player in the league the last 4 seasons. He doesn't need to sell calls at all but falls down every game. Soon as the playoffs hit and he stops getting those calls he averages less than 20 points a game. His playoff drop off is well documented.
 
Most will disagree but I agree that defense is vastly underappreciated in assessing players careers. Just one DPOY probably isn’t enough with his offensive numbers but this stat is so impressive that I question if it is true.

 
Most will disagree but I agree that defense is vastly underappreciated in assessing players careers. Just one DPOY probably isn’t enough with his offensive numbers but this stat is so impressive that I question if it is true.



His Pacers years are definitely underappreciated (he was playing in the "weak East" so it wasn't valued), but I don't see him getting in the Hall. He's in that era of players that didn't really understand or care about their own legacies when they played but wanted to protect all the ones before them for a pat on the head. Now they see millennials and Gen Z'ers surpassing them in stature and production while being paid waaaaaay more and all the old heads they went up for don't even mention them while making waaaaaay more than them in retirement. So we getting the "You know I was really good" takes now. T-Mac been on this hard lately. Not believing in yourself or your era while you got the spotlight has consequences. :dunno:
 
His Pacers years are definitely underappreciated (he was playing in the "weak East" so it wasn't valued), but I don't see him getting in the Hall. He's in that era of players that didn't really understand or care about their own legacies when they played but wanted to protect all the ones before them for a pat on the head. Now they see millennials and Gen Z'ers surpassing them in stature and production while being paid waaaaaay more and all the old heads they went up for don't even mention them while making waaaaaay more than them in retirement. So we getting the "You know I was really good" takes now. T-Mac been on this hard lately. Not believing in yourself or your era while you got the spotlight has consequences. :dunno:

Artest is not in the hall because he didn’t believe in his era and therefore had inadequate post-career “takes.”

High quality analysis as always. :rolleyes:
 
Artest is not in the hall because he didn’t believe in his era and therefore had inadequate post-career “takes.”

High quality analysis as always. :rolleyes:

No he didn't believe in his era. Show me a quote of Artest deeming himself or someone from his era as being better than those before him? They naturally saw themselves as lesser players and not as talented. He was a great defender and got up to 20 a game at one point but didn't understand legacy. If he did he wouldve promoted himself like this WHILE HE WAS PLAYING. Even now he's still doing interviews lying for dudes before him that never mention him. :lol:
 
Darvin Hamm having this roster core for two seasons.. and this EXACT roster for 9 months, and still making starting lineup "adjustments" is coaching malpractice.

This will be the first time that line up will share the court together. They haven't put that line up out all season in any game. :lol:

Ham is not a good coach at all but it's not all him. I believe he's just a do boy for the front office. IMO, they have alot of say in coaching decisions and playing time that he obeys. Alot of politics involved. A more experienced coach wouldn't go for that which is why I believe they hired and prefer an inexperienced just happy to be there Ham. The GOAT and Klutch have covered alot of the front office's flaws during this 6 year stretch.
 
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