Israel Declares War After Hamas Attacks. UPDATE: Israel Ends Ceasefire, Begins Bombing Gaza

They love them so much that there are more Palestinian refugees in Chile (seriously) than Saudi, Egypt, Kuwait, Qatar, Yemen, Iraq or Kuwait. :lol:Twice as many in Guatemala and Honduras than Qatar. As I said, the only countries that made any effort to take them in were Lebanon/Jordan/Syria and, again, how is that going? :smh: Waving a damn flag is the equivalent of wearing a flag lapel. But hey, the Arabs are good at performative bullshit like this, see the "support" for the Syrian refugees and which countries actually took them in. Most in Turkey and more Syrians in Germany than any Arab countries other than Jordan/Lebanon. How? :smh:
Six out of the top seven countries who took in Palestinian refugees are Arab countries.

Jordan 3,240,000
Israel 1,650,000
Syria 630,000
Chile 500,000 (largest Palestinian community outside the Middle East).
Lebanon 402,582
Saudi Arabia 280,245
Egypt 270,245
United States 255,000


So please explain that hate again?
 
I think there is more information you're withholding or you don't want to speak to. A few things:

  1. Hamas (and PIJ) are both off-shoots of the Muslim Brotherhood, which was birthed in Egypt. The Egyptian ruling classes have always marginalized, jailed, persecuted, and executed members of the Muslim Brotherhood, with the most recent well-known example being Mohamed Morsi. So if the Egyptian government doesn't like the MB at home, why would it like the an MB off-shoot next door?

  2. Egypt and Israel ostensibly made "peace" with Israel in 1978 with the Camp David Accords. So of course Egypt isn't going to violate that by opening its door to the Palestinians.

  3. Egypt and Syria at one tried creating a united Arab Republic, and having an independent Palestinian state in-between them would have disturbed that political fantasy.
Most Arab countries are monarchies, dictatorships, or Western puppets. That doesn't equate to what the "Arab street" thinks or does.

Are you implying that they (Egypt and any other Arab government for that matter) should have been cozy with the Muslim Brotherhood?

The "blockade" only began in its current form in 2007. Rafah Border crossing being has been sporadically open/closed since then with some big periods of it being open. Plenty of Palestinians left that way:

Again, knowing that one of your only exits is via Egypt would electing a government hostile to Egypt make sense?

The big question I am raising is twofold:

Why are so few Arab governments willing to take them in given the existential nature of the fight they are in and the "ostensible" support for them from the Arab street?

Why is the Arab street not more critical of the actual treatment of Palestinians in the few countries that have made in effort to take them in? Life for Palestinians in Lebanon/Syria is only marginally better than in Gaza. How is this possible?

You know the answers already...
 
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Wonder if these people were as concerned about the original apartheid...or if they just throw that word around now to show that resistance can work.
 
Six out of the top seven countries who took in Palestinian refugees are Arab countries.

Jordan 3,240,000
Israel 1,650,000
Syria 630,000
Chile 500,000 (largest Palestinian community outside the Middle East).
Lebanon 402,582
Saudi Arabia 280,245
Egypt 270,245
United States 255,000


So please explain that hate again?

You are weirdly counting Israel and completely ignoring what is happening/has happened in Jordan/Lebanon regarding this. Also, does it honestly make sense to you that evil pro zionist America has roughly the same number as Egypt/Saudi? How is that possible given your claims of genuine concern from the Arab street and governments alike?
 
Are you implying that they (Egypt and any other Arab government for that matter) should have been cozy with the Muslim Brotherhood?

The "blockade" only began in its current form in 2007. Rafah Border crossing being has been sporadically open/closed since then with some big periods of it being open. Plenty of Palestinians left that way: Again, knowing that one of your only exits is via Egypt would electing a government hostile to Egypt make sense?

The big question I am raising is twofold:

Why are so few Arab governments willing to take them in given the existential nature of the fight they are in and the "ostensible" support for them from the Arab street?

Why is the Arab street not more critical of the actual treatment of Palestinians in the few countries that have made in effort to take them in? Life for Palestinians in Lebanon/Syria is only marginally better than in Gaza. How is this possible?

You know the answers already...


I'm not implying anything about being cozy with the Muslim Brotherhood. Just adding context to the discussion. Would electing a "government" like the Palestinian Authority, which is basically an Israeli puppet government, make sense either? What real choices do the Gazan Palestinians have?

You keep asking about why so few Arab governments are willing to take them in without asking if the Palestinians actually want to go. Refugees by definitions are people who are forced out of their homes but want to go back where they came from!

Life for Palestinians in Lebanon/Syria is shitty because life in those countries generally is probably shitty, with the myriad ethno-religious conflicts they already have and the corrupt dysfunctional governments that run them as well as the other countries using them to fight proxy conflicts. Why was there an Arab Spring in the first place 10+ years ago? It's not as if the people or the "street" naturally call the shots in those countries.

I understand your point concerning how people are only looking at Israel and nothing else but it seems to me that you are looking at other things but Israel. Is almost the equivalent of the "what about black-on-black crime" argument.
 
You are weirdly counting Israel and completely ignoring what is happening/has happened in Jordan/Lebanon regarding this. Also, does it honestly make sense to you that evil pro zionist America has roughly the same number as Egypt/Saudi? How is that possible given your claims of genuine concern from the Arab street and governments alike?
You were the one who claimed they hated Palestinians. Stop trying to deflect. Explain why the top countries who took them in are Arabs if they hate them. Why does Jordan have 3.2 million Palestinians and America only 225k if America has 30 times the population of Jordan. It should have been the other way around. Why did that Arab country who hates Palestinians take in so many? What about Syria and Lebanon? I won't even tell you the population differences there. Explain the hate.
 
You were the one who claimed they hated Palestinians. Stop trying to deflect. Explain why the top countries who took them in are Arabs if they hate them. Why does Jordan have 3.2 million Palestinians and America only 225k if America has 30 times the population of Jordan. It should have been the other way around. Why did that Arab country who hates Palestinians take in so many? What about Syria and Lebanon? I won't even tell you the population differences there. Explain the hate.
He's never been over here so he cant speak on it, but I can.

Palestinians are treated like Dog shit in Amman. They hold no rights, and the king deports them out for any small infraction.

The only reason there are so many there was because it was going to be Palestine and they fled into the borders. Make no mistake of it though. They are treated like crap in the middle east. Barely above the Sudanese.
 
Wonder if these people were as concerned about the original apartheid...or if they just throw that word around now to show that resistance can work.

Are you asking if Palestinians cared about Apartheid South Africa? If so Palestine supported South Africa, the ANC, etc during their fight for freedom, recognizing it was essentially the same enemy. Nelson Mandela and Desmond Tutu were loud allies for Palestine. If I'm not mistaken, i believe Tutu was one of the first (globally notable) people to call Israel and apartheid state. The state of Palestine and the ANC created diplomatic bonds directly after the first post-apartheid election.

“The United Nations took a strong stand against apartheid; and over the years, an international consensus was built, which helped to bring an end to this iniquitous system…but we know too well that our freedom is incomplete without the freedom of the Palestinians.” (1997)
Nelson Mandela, 1997
 
Of note, there are lots of Mandela murals all around The West Bank (along with some Black American people too including George Floyd and Tamir Rice)
 
I'm not implying anything about being cozy with the Muslim Brotherhood. Just adding context to the discussion. Would electing a "government" like the Palestinian Authority, which is basically an Israeli puppet government, make sense either? What real choices do the Gazan Palestinians have?

You keep asking about why so few Arab governments are willing to take them in without asking if the Palestinians actually want to go. Refugees by definitions are people who are forced out of their homes but want to go back where they came from!

Life for Palestinians in Lebanon/Syria is shitty because life in those countries generally is probably shitty, with the myriad ethno-religious conflicts they already have and the corrupt dysfunctional governments that run them as well as the other countries using them to fight proxy conflicts. Why was there an Arab Spring in the first place 10+ years ago? It's not as if the people or the "street" naturally call the shots in those countries.

I understand your point concerning how people are only looking at Israel and nothing else but it seems to me that you are looking at other things but Israel. Is almost the equivalent of the "what about black-on-black crime" argument.

Don't get it confused, Israel the cause of this but the oversimplification on here of one of the most complicated and nuanced issues in geopolitical history is maddening. Palestinians being banned from certain professions/owning property etc. in places like Lebanon has nothing to do with Israel. The same for nobody granting them citizenship with a few limited exceptions. Conversely, what has happened in Jordan/Lebanon with Black September and Hezbollah etc. can't be ignored when considering why all of the Arab countries are very cautious in their approach to the Palestinians. Israel would not be in a position to do this but for the wildly dysfunctional relationship between the Arabs and Palestinians generally. Pointing this out isn't excusing Israeli atrocities and enforcement of basically an apartheid system but is rather adding context to the how/why all of this is possible. I think the Arab government reaction to Trump/Obama really highlights what I am getting at...
 
You were the one who claimed they hated Palestinians. Stop trying to deflect. Explain why the top countries who took them in are Arabs if they hate them. Why does Jordan have 3.2 million Palestinians and America only 225k if America has 30 times the population of Jordan. It should have been the other way around. Why did that Arab country who hates Palestinians take in so many? What about Syria and Lebanon? I won't even tell you the population differences there. Explain the hate.

Yes, waiving a flag absolves them of not taking them in or, even when they do, denying them the right to citizenship, work, own property etc. :smh: You aware of the situation past/present of Palestinians in Jordan/Lebanon and how that has influenced absolutely everything even including the reluctance of the Arabs to take in Syrians from the most recent civil war? Right? Again, why would "zionist" america be in a position to take in roughly the same number as the two most influential Arab countries (Egypt/Saudi)? It is comical honestly. You realize the gulf states claim they cant take in refugees because they are signatories to the '51 refugee convention? Given the gravity of the situation that is absurd but hey they have apologists like you to defend them. :lol: You are really kind of freestyling right now.
 
Don't get it confused, Israel the cause of this but the oversimplification on here of one of the most complicated and nuanced issues in geopolitical history is maddening. Palestinians being banned from certain professions/owning property etc. in places like Lebanon has nothing to do with Israel. The same for nobody granting them citizenship with a few limited exceptions. Conversely, what has happened in Jordan/Lebanon with Black September and Hezbollah etc. can't be ignored when considering why all of the Arab countries are very cautious in their approach to the Palestinians. Israel would not be in a position to do this but for the wildly dysfunctional relationship between the Arabs and Palestinians generally. Pointing this out isn't excusing Israeli atrocities and enforcement of basically an apartheid system but is rather adding context to the how/why all of this is possible. I think the Arab government reaction to Trump/Obama really highlights what I am getting at...

OK. You take issue with the binary, black-and-white ways in which this conflict is discussed. Understood.

But you still say certain things "have nothing to do with Israel." How can that be? Israel's existence and bloody reinforcement of its existence is the root cause of it all. So other countries fear having Palestinians refugees in their countries, and by extension, Palestinian militants, because those militants will use their host countries to agitate or launch attacks against Israel, which will invite retribution from Israel. Hence why Jordan and later Lebanon both kicked out the PLO.

But the root cause is still Israel's existence, how it was established, and how it is reinforced.

Earlier you mentioned how "the very Sunni Hamas is only openly backed by very Shia Iran and only supported tacitly by Qatar and to an even lesser degree, Turkey" but you didn't elaborate on this point. But if anything, that should tell you how these other countries support Palestinian militants because they regard Israel as an existential thread to their own sovereignty.

Nod your head to this!

 
He's never been over here so he cant speak on it, but I can.

Palestinians are treated like Dog shit in Amman. They hold no rights, and the king deports them out for any small infraction.

The only reason there are so many there was because it was going to be Palestine and they fled into the borders. Make no mistake of it though. They are treated like crap in the middle east. Barely above the Sudanese.
You know they could have closed their borders or kicked them out, right? What about Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Qatar, Kuwait, Iraq, and Yemen?
 
Twitter & Tik Tok have been top tier for on the ground reporting. You’ll run into a little nonsense here and there but 95% is raw and unfiltered reporting.
No doubt.
I think most of them are usually quiet over the weekend. Like, I have been waiting for Democracy Now’s coverage Monday morning. I think it makes sense to reassess on this front tomorrow.

Good point about weekend quiet. But each HAS posted over the weekend and we are halfway through the day now.

That's what I was saying. Democracy Now was the only progressive network on YouTube that I'd seen report or comment on it since when I'd made my post.

If this continues, I'll surmise that they may not be in favor of Israel's war declaration but are choosing to remain silent rather than potentially offend and lose jewish support- which would be a damn shame. Just speak the truth.
 
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Yes, waiving a flag absolves them of not taking them in or, even when they do, denying them the right to citizenship, work, own property etc. :smh: You aware of the situation past/present of Palestinians in Jordan/Lebanon and how that has influenced absolutely everything even including the reluctance of the Arabs to take in Syrians from the most recent civil war? Right? Again, why would "zionist" america be in a position to take in roughly the same number as the two most influential Arab countries (Egypt/Saudi)? It is comical honestly. You realize the gulf states claim they cant take in refugees because they are signatories to the '51 refugee convention? Given the gravity of the situation that is absurd but hey they have apologists like you to defend them. :lol: You are really kind of freestyling right now.
Simple question and still no answer. More deflections. We get it, you hate Palestinians. Doesn't mean the Arab countries who took them in, including Egypt and Saudi Arabia, do.
 
Good point about weekend quiet.

That's what I was saying. Democracy Now was the only progressive network on YouTube that I'd seen report or comment on it since when I'd made my post.
I’m listening to Breaking Points right now, which has a weird right/left populist perspective gimmick, and their coverage seems good and progressive on this. (I’m not sure of their numbers but I wouldn’t be surprised if they outdraw The Young Turks nowadays.)



 
OK. You take issue with the binary, black-and-white ways in which this conflict is discussed. Understood.

But you still say certain things "have nothing to do with Israel." How can that be? Israel's existence and bloody reinforcement of its existence is the root cause of it all. So other countries fear having Palestinians refugees in their countries, and by extension, Palestinian militants, because those militants will use their host countries to agitate or launch attacks against Israel, which will invite retribution from Israel. Hence why Jordan and later Lebanon both kicked out the PLO.

But the root cause is still Israel's existence, how it was established, and how it is reinforced.

Earlier you mentioned how "the very Sunni Hamas is only openly backed by very Shia Iran and only supported tacitly by Qatar and to an even lesser degree, Turkey" but you didn't elaborate on this point. But if anything, that should tell you how these other countries support Palestinian militants because they regard Israel as an existential thread to their own sovereignty.

Nod your head to this!



My point is that Hamas is so wild/shambolic that they had to seek support from literally the Shia state to get support. Only tacit support from Qatar and Turkey because both like to chase for clout. :lol:Keep in mind that a lot of militant sunni groups hate shia more than non-muslims etc. :smh: As I started off saying, there would be no open air gaza prison but for Egypt AND Israel. :smh:

As for Israel, my point is that BGOL and social media hate Israel way more than actual Arab governments do. Saudi was about to normalize relations and plenty of other Arab countries have full diplomatic relations. Saudi has gone way harder on Yemen than anything Israeli or sympathetic see Trump, see Kushner see Bush etc. This isnt new though, only on bgol aka more arab than actual arabs... :lol:

This is from 2017:

There are many hands behind the Israeli army’s onslaught on Gaza. America is not unhappy that Hamas is getting such a beating. As footage of the scenes of carnage on the streets of Shejaiya was coming through, John Kerry said on NBC’s Meet the Press on Sunday that Israel had every right to defend itself and the US ambassador Dan Shapiro told Israel’s Channel 2 news that the US would seek to help moderate forces become stronger in Gaza, meaning the Palestinian Authority.

Nor is Egypt overcome with grief. Its foreign minister Sameh Shoukry held Hamas responsible for civilian deaths after their rejection of the ceasefire.
Neither matter to Netanyahu as much as the third undeclared partner in this unholy alliance, for neither on their own could give him the cover he needs for a military operation of this ferocity. And that can come not from a handwringing but impotent parent like the US. Such permission can only come from a brother Arab.

The attack on Gaza comes by Saudi Royal Appointment. This royal warrant is nothing less than an open secret in Israel, and both former and serving defense officials are relaxed when they talk about it. Former Israeli defence minister Shaul Mofaz surprised the presenter on Channel 10 by saying Israel had to specify a role for Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates in the demilitarisation of Hamas. Asked what he meant by that, he added that Saudi and Emirati funds should be used to rebuild Gaza after Hamas had been defanged.

Amos Gilad, the Israeli defence establishment’s point man with Mubarak’s Egypt and now director of the Israeli defence ministry's policy and political-military relations department told the academic James Dorsey recently: "Everything is underground, nothing is public. But our security cooperation with Egypt and the Gulf states is unique. This is the best period of security and diplomatic relations with the Arab.”

The celebration is mutual. King Abdullah let it be known that he had phoned President Abdel-Fattah El-Sisi to approve of an Egyptian ceasefire initiative which had not been put to Hamas, and had the Jerusalem Post quoting analysts about whether a ceasefire was ever seriously intended.
Mossad and Saudi intelligence officials meet regularly: The two sides conferred when the former Egyptian president Mohamed Morsi was about to be deposed in Egypt and they are hand in glove on Iran , both in preparing for an Israel strike over Saudi airspace and in sabotaging the existing nuclear programme. There has even been a well sourced claim that the Saudis are financing most of Israel’s very expensive campaign against Iran.

Why do Saudi Arabia and Israel make such comfortable bedfellows? For decades both countries have had a similar feeling in their gut when they look around them: fear. Their reaction was similar .Each felt they could only insure themselves against their neighbours by invading them (Lebanon, Yemen) or by funding proxy wars and coups (Syria, Egypt, Libya). They have enemies or rivals in common - Iran, Turkey, Qatar, Hamas in Gaza, and Muslim Brotherhood elsewhere.
And they have common allies, too - the US and British military industrial establishments, Fatah strongman and US asset Mohammed Dahlan who tried to take over Gaza once, and will probably be ready to do so again.

 
Simple question and still no answer. More deflections. We get it, you hate Palestinians. Doesn't mean the Arab countries who took them in, including Egypt and Saudi Arabia, do.
Saudi loves them so much they won't offer them citizenship like literally everybody else after 10 years and Egypt's contempt is also well documented. Nothing says I "love you" like closing your only exit out of a literal open air prison. :smh: It is 9 PM where I am and I have a nice bottle of rosé so I am happy to play this stupid game for another hour or so. :lol:
 
They mobilized quick as fuck!!!

This is about to get nasty!

Mofos dying over such fixable issues.

Like Bloods vs.Crips, but w/ jets and tanks.

It will never end :smh:
How is it fixable?

One side is saying this is our land we've been here for hundreds of years.

The other side says "Our God" says this is our land and we will "reclaim" it by any means necessary. And if you don't leave, we'll cry out to the rest of the world to get assistance against the unfair bullies that won't leave their heritage, land and livelihoods behind because Our God told us this is where we belong
 
WOW. Hezbollah is gonna be like....
bad-mask.gif

Yep ! especially now, after saving Assad's ass with that Syrian civil war Hezbollah-2.0 is entirely a new breed WAAYYYYY more dangerous !

The good old days from 2006 ...



are simply gone !
 
I love how these media crackers keep putting emphasis on "TERRORIST ATTACK"...crackers really never change their tune do they? That shit really works doesn't it?
 
With all the bombing being done....could Israel be killing their own civilians that are being held hostage?
 
My point is that Hamas is so wild/shambolic that they had to seek support from literally the Shia state to get support. Only tacit support from Qatar and Turkey because both like to chase for clout. :lol:Keep in mind that a lot of militant sunni groups hate shia more than non-muslims etc. :smh: As I started off saying, there would be no open air gaza prison but for Egypt AND Israel. :smh:

As for Israel, my point is that BGOL and social media hate Israel way more than actual Arab governments do. Saudi was about to normalize relations and plenty of other Arab countries have full diplomatic relations. Saudi has gone way harder on Yemen than anything Israeli or sympathetic see Trump, see Kushner see Bush etc. This isnt new though, only on bgol aka more arab than actual arabs... :lol:

Hamas has always had links to Iran and Hezbollah. They may have religious differences amongst themselves but they all hold an anti-Western, anti-imperialist, and anti-Zionist stance, and that is what unites them. They call it the Axis of Resistance.

The militant Sunni groups that straight-up hate the Shia are the radical Salafist, Wahhabi-style groups like ISIS and some of the al-Qaeda off-shoots. You can't conflate them with the Muslim Brotherhood groups.

And you've still missed the point I made earlier. Most Arab governments are MONARCHIES and dictatorships who fear Islamic militants themselves. You can't say that they reflect the will of people. The Saudi monarchy especially has been called out for years for being propped up and protected by the West. That's what initially set Osama and al-Qaeda off after they left Afghanistan.

 
Saudi loves them so much they won't offer them citizenship like literally everybody else after 10 years and Egypt's contempt is also well documented. Nothing says I "love you" like closing your only exit out of a literal open air prison. :smh: It is 9 PM where I am and I have a nice bottle of rosé so I am happy to play this stupid game for another hour or so. :lol:
"Closing your only exit" yet 280,245 Palestinians are there. lol. I thought you said to pay attention to what they actually do? Not the flag waving.
 
The Palestinians don’t have any friends. They’re Sansa without the Vale. It’s just Ramsey Bolton. Jon been dead. Arya been abandoned her.
They've been abandoned for at least 75 years. And scroll back to the page before so you can see all their "enemies" I posted.
 
Hamas has always had links to Iran and Hezbollah. They may have religious differences amongst themselves but they all hold an anti-Western, anti-imperialist, and anti-Zionist stance, and that is what unites them. They call it the Axis of Resistance.

The militant Sunni groups that straight-up hate the Shia are the radical Salafist, Wahhabi-style groups like ISIS and some of the al-Qaeda off-shoots. You can't conflate them with the Muslim Brotherhood groups.

And you've still missed the point I made earlier. Most Arab governments are MONARCHIES and dictatorships who fear Islamic militants themselves. You can't say that they reflect the will of people. The Saudi monarchy especially has been called out for years for being propped up and protected by the West. That's what initially set Osama and al-Qaeda off after they left Afghanistan.



You're missing my point. MB is so off the rails that they needed that Shia support that other "mainstream" sunni groups didn't as they had way more actual sunni support. You are also making my point without knowing it regarding the Arab governments. :lol: The demonization (rightly so) and ostensible support for the Palestinians is just a tool to distract from the corruption/incompetence and actual Western alliances that most Arab (especially Gulf Arab) countries actually have. Saudi will give citizenship to anybody living there for 10 years but Palestinians and then publicly voice concerns for the plight of the Palestinians. :lol: But is for their own good though, that good Arab love for Palestinians :rolleyes::

But press reports said Palestinians living in the Kingdom would be barred as the Arab League has instructed that Palestinians living in Arab countries should not be given citizenship to avoid dissolution of their identity and protect their right to return to their homeland.

They also routinely do shit like this:

An unannounced policy by the Saudi government has made millions of Palestinians unable to travel to Saudi Arabia for the hajj, umrah (the non-mandatory, lesser pilgrimage) or work. Over the past two months, Saudi consular officials have informed Jordanian travel agencies servicing hajj and umrah tourism that the kingdom will no longer accept visa applications for individuals with temporary travel documents.


I am still waiting for somebody to explain why the Arab countries denying Palestinians the right to work, citizenship, etc. is "love" while the zionist supporting "western countries" that take them in don't have the same restrictions...
 
How is it fixable?

One side is saying this is our land we've been here for hundreds of years.

The other side says "Our God" says this is our land and we will "reclaim" it by any means necessary. And if you don't leave, we'll cry out to the rest of the world to get assistance against the unfair bullies that won't leave their heritage, land and livelihoods behind because Our God told us this is where we belong
When I say fixable, I just meant it's a bunch of silly religious bullshit and land rights that is costing thousands of lost lives.

It's dumb as fuck to me, but it's super serious to them. I get how ingrained all that shit is in them.

 
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