White folks trying to mess with the jet black people aka the Jarawa people of the Andaman Islands.

[exiledking]

Names of individual people and how did they get into the trade? What context drove them to get into the thread? Why? Greed? Wealth? Wars? Why?

You and gene were of the opinion that arabs traded in Afrikans. And I said white folks that called themselves arabs. But you all were not in agreement with that. Hence, the definition of what an Arab is is important.

Yes. Wars. Yoruba internecine wars were a huge source and they weren't forced. Also prisoners from debt or some crime.

Dahomey wasnt forced. They also fought Yoruba people and traded them. Kong Ghezo is one guy who actually had to be convinced to STOP selling slaves. There were many more before him.

The Fulani guy in "Prince among slaves" was captured in a war. He was looking for prisoners himself when.he was caught. Even the fictional character , Kunta Kente was a mande caught by Fulanis in that war. You know all this.


And as far as your stupid breakdown of "white people who call themselves Arabs" that's just you trying to deny a fact. I could easily say "Black people who call themselves Africans" or "white people who call themselves Europeans". All three of those names attempt to define cultures.

 

[kefta]

Yes. Wars. Yoruba internecine wars were a huge source and they weren't forced. Also prisoners from debt or some crime.

Dahomey wasnt forced. They also fought Yoruba people and traded them. Kong Ghezo is one guy who actually had to be convinced to STOP selling slaves. There were many more before him.

The Fulani guy in "Prince among slaves" was captured in a war. He was looking for prisoners himself when.he was caught. Even the fictional character , Kunta Kente was a mande caught by Fulanis in that war. You know all this.


And as far as your stupid breakdown of "white people who call themselves Arabs" that's just you trying to deny a fact. I could easily say "Black people who call themselves Africans" or "white people who call themselves Europeans". All three of those names attempt to define cultures.

Why did they trade with the white man and white woman? I know they were wars among themselves but no trading of slaves among themselves, only the capture of prisoners of war. My question is Why did they trade with the white man and white woman?

 

[kefta]

Yes. Wars. Yoruba internecine wars were a huge source and they weren't forced. Also prisoners from debt or some crime.

Dahomey wasnt forced. They also fought Yoruba people and traded them. Kong Ghezo is one guy who actually had to be convinced to STOP selling slaves. There were many more before him.

The Fulani guy in "Prince among slaves" was captured in a war. He was looking for prisoners himself when.he was caught. Even the fictional character , Kunta Kente was a mande caught by Fulanis in that war. You know all this.


And as far as your stupid breakdown of "white people who call themselves Arabs" that's just you trying to deny a fact. I could easily say "Black people who call themselves Africans" or "white people who call themselves Europeans". All three of those names attempt to define cultures.

Again, one can't conclude that Arabs traded in African slaves if one does not define what an Arab is. The Arabs that stole and sold Afrikans were white people that were called Arabs just because they spoke Arabic. Get it?

 

[exiledking]

I when did i admit that i do not know?

I always stood by what i just typed. We were not as powerful as we make ourselves to be. Because if we were, you and gene would not be in Amerikkka today. True or false?

No. powerful kingdoms and leaders can become undone by bad decisions and environmental factors and ignorance. Also refusal to adapt. This is why honest discussions and analyzation is necessary. It's also how you can notice the patterns and regain these things if you want or keep yourself from repeating the same mistakes.

Some days you're saying some shit about Moors being black and all powerful, or Egyptians who controlled everything and navigated the globe- next you're saying someone was helpless, clueless and uninformed to the ways of the people they supposedly taught. It's contradictory.

 

[exiledking]

Why did they trade with the white man and white woman? I know they were wars among themselves but no trading of slaves among themselves, only the capture of prisoners of war. My question is Why did they trade with the white man and white woman?

Of course they used slaves amongst their own (Mansa Musa had slaves) - the akan had slaves. Who do you think mined the gold fields? And of course they sold them to the -- wait for it-- ARABS. Or the Moors if you will.

Actually people like the people on this post who were from the interior were captured a lot and still are to the day.

And of course they sold them to white people once they met them. In many cases that was an alternative to sacrificing them since they were captive enemies. Of course all of this depends on WHICH people we'rr talking about since we're covering a HUGE continent with many different cultures.

Here's a question. How come by hat point in history could they not land on any other shores and come away with slaves?

 

[Problematic]

Lol I am.doing me, just like you're doing you in the same exact lifestyle. I'm trying to tell YOU to ENJOY doing you and stop trying to pretend there's some magic lifestyle out there without any isues. I'm actually interested in that lifestyle and I looked into the pros and cons of it. So while everyone else in this thread is pretending it's a bed of roses, I'm sorry if me bringing balance to that is hurting your feelings. I don't have to TRY to discredit their lifestyle. EVERY lifestyle has its pluses and minuses. People here seem to be ignoring that.


There's a reason why YOU don't live like that and you'd rather be sitting there on this internet arguing w me rather than looking for something that died on a trail somewhere to eat. I'm grateful for it. Pardon me for reminding US of our blessings.

Heh, it seems you think anyone who admires their way of life has been completely suckered into believing the narrative of the "noble savage" (ie. primitivist utopia) and should just start living by our wits and traditions like the tribes...of course there are pluses and minuses to any lifestyle - I'd like to think most already know that

Not to get all Zerzan, but in terms of overall human health, the hunter/gatherer edges out modernity (global food system, pollution, mental well being, etc)

In terms of lifespan/comfort modernity wins by a landslide...some people simply appreciate the pre-agrarian way of life even if we know we would damn near kill ourselves trying to duplicate it after living our entire lives in this culture

Not to derail the back and forth tho

 

[exiledking]

Again, one can't conclude that Arabs traded in African slaves if one does not define what an Arab is. The Arabs that stole and sold Afrikans were white people that were called Arabs just because they spoke Arabic. Get it?

No they're called Arab because they come from ARABIA. and yes you can add to that they did spread their language and culture which makes the word Arab just as useful as europeam or African. North Africans were arabized (Berbers, Tuareg, etc) , some european parts (Turks, Serbs, etc), some Africans (Chad, Niger, mali), and it can get more complicated but I don't see how you can.define any of them.as "white" - I don't even get how you can use the term White and Black, yet find it hard to recognize Arab. They're all made up but at least Arab actually describes a culture AND a region. Literally several countries (united ARAB Emirates, Saudi ARABia.) East African Swahili people were sold to arabs - you can consider Tippu Tip an Arab, even though he's dark skinned. All this shit is complex but you just want to except some of it as it makes you comfortable.

 

[exiledking]

Heh, it seems you think anyone who admires their way of life has been completely suckered into believing the narrative of the "noble savage" (ie. primitivist utopia) and should just start living by our wits and traditions like the tribes...of course there are pluses and minuses to any lifestyle - I'd like to think most already know that

Not to get all Zerzan, but in terms of overall human health, the hunter/gatherer edges out modernity (global food system, pollution, mental well being, etc)

In terms of lifespan/comfort modernity wins by a landslide...some people simply appreciate the pre-agrarian way of life even if we know we would damn near kill ourselves trying to duplicate it after living our entire lives in this culture

Not to derail the back and forth tho

Ok then were saying the same.thing

 

[kefta]

Of course they used slaves amongst their own (Mansa Musa had slaves) - the akan had slaves. Who do you think mined the gold fields? And of course they sold them to the -- wait for it-- ARABS. Or the Moors if you will.

Actually people like the people on this post who were from the interior were captured a lot and still are to the day.

And of course they sold them to white people once they met them. In many cases that was an alternative to sacrificing them since they were captive enemies. Of course all of this depends on WHICH people we'rr talking about since we're covering a HUGE continent with many different cultures.

Here's a question. How come by hat point in history could they not land on any other shores and come away with slaves?

They were not slaves. What were they called in the narrative language? They were not called slaves and they were not treated like slaves i.e. those the white man and woman stole from Africa. What were they called in the native language? They were they defined them is how they treated them. In Swahil at the cost they were called mutumwa. Which is very different from the word slave and what it means. Lets focus on the language. What were they called?

And again, what was the incentive to trade their own people to white people? And yeah, how many were sold and by whom and how many were stolen by the white man and white woman?

 

[kefta]

No they're called Arab because they come from ARABIA. and yes you can add to that they did spread their language and culture which makes the word Arab just as useful as europeam or African. North Africans were arabized (Berbers, Tuareg, etc) , some european parts (Turks, Serbs, etc), some Africans (Chad, Niger, mali), and it can get more complicated but I don't see how you can.define any of them.as "white" - I don't even get how you can use the term White and Black, yet find it hard to recognize Arab. They're all made up but at least Arab actually describes a culture AND a region. Literally several countries (united ARAB Emirates, Saudi ARABia.) East African Swahili people were sold to arabs - you can consider Tippu Tip an Arab, even though he's dark skinned. All this shit is complex but you just want to except some of it as it makes you comfortable.

One was an arab not because of where they came from but because they spoke arab. Now, both white and black people spoke arabic. Hence, anyone can be an arab. The white arabs are the ones that traded in Afrikans.
Tippu Tip the slave trader and Livingston the abolitionist Interesting!

 

[exiledking]

They were not slaves. What where they called in the narrative language? They were not called slaves and they were not treated like slaves i.e. those the white man and woman stole from Africa. What were they called in the native language? They were they defined them is how they treated them. In Swahil at the cost they were called mutumwa. Which is very different from the word slave and what it means. Lets focus on the language. What were they called?

And again, what was the incentive to trade their own people to white people? And yeah, how many were sold and by whom and how many were stolen by the white man and white woman?

Lol you wanna play w words but here's what could be done to them- they could be SOLD against their will. SOLD to someone else and carried or driven off. Many with chains and other torture devices. Definitely treated as a lower class and not on control of their own destiny. And again, depending on WHICH culture in the continent, some sacrificed and even killed just because their master died. We're talking English and any of your people (if you speak Swahili) when they translate it, they use the terms SLAVE and MASTER.

Now you're gonna sound like an old white guy who says "well he never beat his slaves".

There's actually a really interesting book called "Abana and the important men" that actually deals with the term and made this akan woman who was enslaved by an akan man. She escaped to the gold coast where the Brits had now outlawed slavery and took the former slaver to court and had to prove she was a slave.

In today's terms none of us would want to be her and none of us would want to be "mutumwa" or whatever you wanna call it.

 

[exiledking]

One was an arab not because of where they came from but because they spoke arab. Now, both white and black people spoke arabic. Hence, anyone can be an arab. The white arabs are the ones that traded in Afrikans.
Tippu Tip the slave trader and Livingston the abolitionist Interesting![/

That's the way YOU wanna define what an Arab is so that you can continue to feel comfortable. Now that I've answered some of your questions. I need for you to answer mine. You got any names of SPECIFIC white arabs as you call them? What.is a white person? What is a white Arab?

 

[kefta]

Lol you wanna play w words but here's what could be done to them- they could be SOLD against their will. SOLD to someone else and carried or driven off. Many with chains and other torture devices. Definitely treated as a lower class and not on control of their own destiny. And again, depending on WHICH culture in the continent, some sacrificed and even killed just because their master died. We're talking English and any of your people (if you speak Swahili) when they translate it, they use the terms SLAVE and MASTER.

Now you're gonna sound like an old white guy who says "well he never beat his slaves".

There's actually a really interesting book called "Abana and the important men" that actually deals with the term and made this akan woman who was enslaved by an akan man. She escaped to the gold coast where the Brits had now outlawed slavery and took the former slaver to court and had to prove she was a slave.

In today's terms none of us would want to be her and none of us would want to be "mutumwa" or whatever you wanna call it.

Mutumwa does not mean slave. IT SIMPLY MEANS THE ONE YOU SEND. Says nothing about subjugation or mistreatment. Pick up on your swahili Bruh.

Now again, you did not answer my questions, What were they called in the narrative language? They were not called slaves and they were not treated like slaves i.e. those the white man and woman stole from Africa. What were they called in the native language? They were they defined them is how they treated them. In Swahil at the cost they were called mutumwa. Which is very different from the word slave and what it means. Lets focus on the language. What were they called?

 

[Flawless]

That's the way YOU wanna define what an Arab is so that you can continue to feel comfortable. Now that I've answered some of your questions. I need for you to answer mine. You got any names of SPECIFIC white arabs as you call them? What.is a white person? What is a white Arab?

Give him a minute, he needs time to google a response.

 

[kefta]

That's the way YOU wanna define what an Arab is so that you can continue to feel comfortable. Now that I've answered some of your questions. I need for you to answer mine. You got any names of SPECIFIC white arabs as you call them? What.is a white person? What is a white Arab?

Can you read and comprehend? Here goes, "In an article by Oscar L. Beard, Consultant in African Studies called, Did We Sell Each Other Into Slavery? he says "Even the case of Tippu Tip may well fall into a category that we might call the consequences of forced cultural assimilation via White (or Red) Arab Conquest over Africa. Tippu Tip's father was a White (or Red) Arab slave raider, his mother an unmixed African slave. Tip was born out of violence, the rape of an African woman. It is said that Tip, a "mulatto", was merciless to Africans."

 

[exiledking]

Mutumwa does not mean slave. IT SIMPLY MEANS THE ONE YOU SEND. Says nothing about subjugation or mistreatment. Pick up on your swahili Bruh.

Now again, you did not answer my questions, What were they called in the narrative language? They were not called slaves and they were not treated like slaves i.e. those the white man and woman stole from Africa. What were they called in the native language? They were they defined them is how they treated them. In Swahil at the cost they were called mutumwa. Which is very different from the word slave and what it means. Lets focus on the language. What were they called?

Again, I'm not concerned with the word. Since we aren't speaking Swahili and you just wanna pull ONE word out to play the translation game I'm not concerned with the ACTIONS. When I said that the word slave and master are use I wasn't talking about Swahili at all. In didn't attempt to translate that word. I said that you or I would not want to be that no matter what you call it NOW.

SO stop deflecting. I answered tons of your questions. Now answer mine.

 

[kefta]

Give him a minute, he needs time to google a response.

No i don't.

In regard to what a white person is? A white person is a person that white people treat and define as a white person. Being white is a political classification. To understand what a white person is, you simply have to ask a white person and not a black person because the classification white changes according to white people and context.

A white arab is a white person that speaks Arabic.

I have no names

 

[kefta]

Again, I'm not concerned with the word. Since we aren't speaking Swahili and you just wanna pull ONE word out to play the translation game I'm not concerned with the ACTIONS. When I said that the word slave and master are use I wasn't talking about Swahili at all. In didn't attempt to translate that word. I said that you or I would not want to be that no matter what you call it NOW.

SO stop deflecting. I answered tons of your questions. Now answer mine.

Swahil was an example since I come from that part of the world and speak swahili fluently.

I am not deflecting.

Again, What were they called in the native language? They were not called slaves and they were not treated like slaves i.e. those the white man and woman stole from Africa. What were they called in the native language? They way they defined them is how they treated them. In Swahil at the cost they were called mutumwa. Which is very different from the word slave and what it means. Lets focus on the language. What were they called?

Pick any language from the west of Africa and give me four examples of how they classified the people that you classify as slaves.

Am waiting.

 

[exiledking]

Can you read and comprehend? Here goes, "In an article by Oscar L. Beard, Consultant in African Studies called, Did We Sell Each Other Into Slavery? he says "Even the case of Tippu Tip may well fall into a category that we might call the consequences of forced cultural assimilation via White (or Red) Arab Conquest over Africa. Tippu Tip's father was a White (or Red) Arab slave raider, his mother an unmixed African slave. Tip was born out of violence, the rape of an African woman. It is said that Tip, a "mulatto", was merciless to Africans."

Ok so now we're adding the word RED in there lol. Why?

And I see now that you have some scholar named Oscar L Beard who supports your claim. Why should I give a shit what he says? I can.also throw some scholarly names at you that say the opposite, but who cares?

At least now I know where you get this bullshit from. Wtf is a red Arab? I asked you that already and you still haven't answered. Should we get Oscar signed up to bgol so he can answer that for you as well?

 

[kefta]

Ok so now we're adding the word RED in there lol. Why?

And I see now that you have some scholar named Oscar L Beard who supports your claim. Why should I give a shit what he says? I can.also throw some scholarly names at you that say the opposite, but who cares?

At least now I know where you get this bullshit from. Wtf is a red Arab? I asked you that already and you still haven't answered. Should we get Oscar signed up to bgol so he can answer that for you as well?

White is the word. Red is in brackets. I did not add the word. It is just a quote as an example to show you that the people that you are talking about as being arab slave traders were white people. Get it?

 

[exiledking]

Swahil was an example since I come from that part of the world and speak swahili fluently.

I am not deflecting.

Again, What were they called in the native language? They were not called slaves and they were not treated like slaves i.e. those the white man and woman stole from Africa. What were they called in the native language? They way they defined them is how they treated them. In Swahil at the cost they were called mutumwa. Which is very different from the word slave and what it means. Lets focus on the language. What were they called?

Pick any language from the west of Africa and give me four examples of how they classified the people that you classify as slaves.

Am waiting.

Lol how were they treated? I don't give a shit what word you call em in any language. Were they branded? Used in sacrifice? Bound and shackled? Ordered and told what to do? Lastly, did anyone feel totally fine with handing them over to someone else in exchange for money or goods and shipped off to who knows where with zero concern for their well being? Yes.

 

[exiledking]

White is the word. Red is in brackets. I did not add the word. It is just a quote as an example to show you that the people that you are talking about as being arab slave traders were white people. Get it?

Yes I get it. You don't know what you're talking about. I completely get that. OR you don't WANT to.

 

[kefta]

Lol how were they treated? I don't give a shit what word you call em in any language. Were they branded? Used in sacrifice? Bound and shackled? Ordered and told what to do? Lastly, did anyone feel totally fine with handing them over to someone else in exchange for money or goods and shipped off to who knows where with zero concern for their well being? Yes.

To know how they were treated, get the word in the traditional language that was used to define them. Hence, ****** ... You know what that means or meant. Same thing applies to the word mutumwa in swahil. Says nothing about subjugation or mistreatment. Simply means,THE ONE YOU SEND.

Now get the word but don't use the word slave because it does not belong in that context. Get me four examples of four words and classifications of what they called the Afrikans that you call slaves. Only four examples. I am patiently waiting. Only four words from four native languages that translate to "slave".

Thanks!

 

[kefta]

Yes I get it. You don't know what you're talking about. I completely get that. OR you don't WANT to.

No Sir... Context is what's missing in your arguments and narrative. I feel you!

 

[exiledking]

Tippu Tip's father was a White (or Red) Arab slave raider, his mother an unmixed African slave. Tip was born out of violence, the rape of an African woman. It is said that Tip, a "mulatto", was merciless to Africans."

Tippu Tips father was a MUSCAT Arab. For some reason your guy wants to replace that word that describes a place with the words white or red.

MUSCAT Is Oman which is on the Arabian peninsula. That makes him an ARAB. I've never heard of any arabs use the words Black.or white to describe themselves.

And to go from that to using the word MULATTO LOL---

Ridiculous. Anyone who wants to go and look at a pic of Tippu Tip would hardly describe him as Mulatto lol. Once again you're not making sense.

And you don't wanna answer any questions in your own words. Here's another question. Where are you from? I do know you're African and you've probably said it before but I forget.

 

[exiledking]

To know how they were treated, get the word in the traditional language that was used to define them. Hence, ****** ... You know what that means or meant. Same thing applies to the word mutumwa in swahil. Says nothing about subjugation or mistreatment. Simply means,THE ONE YOU SEND.

Now get the word but don't use the word slave because it does not belong in that context. Get me four examples of four words and classifications of what they called the Afrikans that you call slaves. Only four examples. I am patiently waiting. Only four words from four native languages that translate to "slave".

Thanks!

I asked you questions you won't answer .that says it all.

 

[kefta]

I asked you questions you won't answer .that says it all.

I answered the questions i.e. In regard to what a white person is? A white person is a person that white people treat and define as a white person. Being white is a political classification. To understand what a white person is, you simply have to ask a white person and not a black person because the classification white changes according to white people and context.

A white arab is a white person that speaks Arabic.

I have no names

 

[kefta]

I asked you questions you won't answer .that says it all.

Moreover, "When people speak of slavery they immediately think of chattel slavery as practiced as a result of the Atlantic Slave Trade and apply this definition to indigenous African servitude systems, which bore little or no resemblance to chattel slavery. It is misleading to say, "Every ethnic group has sold members of the same ethnic group into slavery. It becomes a kind of racism; that, while all ethnic groups have sold its own ethnic group into slavery, Blacks can't do it" as it denies the complexities of that particular colonial, chattel slavery situation that existed between Africans and Europeans.

Servitude systems that existed in Africa, and in other indigenous communities cannot be compared to racist slave systems in the Western world and to this day we attempt to try to see this slavery in the same context. People bring up accounts of Biblical slavery, of serfdom in Europe and yes, of servitude in Africa and attempt to paint all these systems with the same brush. However NO OTHER SLAVE SYSTEM has created the never-ending damaging cycle as the Atlantic Slave Trade."

 

[kefta]

I asked you questions you won't answer .that says it all.

Furthermore, "The truth of the matter is that fair skinned Arabs' racist attitude towards Blacks existed even before they invaded Africa. The evidence for this can be found in how they dealt with the Black inhabitants of Southern Arabia before they entered Africa as Muslims. Discerning readers and thinkers can look at this and many other accounts of this time and get a clearer picture of the inherent racism of this situation. When we combine this with the desire for African slave labour by Europeans it was no large feat for these often lighter skinned, Islamized Africans to enslave the black kufir, whom they barely endowed with a shred of humanity. And of course jumping on their bandwagon would have been those black Africans with deep inferiority complexes, who would have been only too eager to do the duty of the 'superior' Muslims in an effort to advance themselves. These facts are certainly not hidden and the patterns are everywhere, even today but it is we who do not like to see. For centuries we certainly have not been conditioned for Sight."

 

[kefta]

I asked you questions you won't answer .that says it all.

And in conclusion, Please answer the pending questions "What were they called in the native language? They were not called slaves and they were not treated like slaves i.e. those the white man and woman stole from Africa. What were they called in the native language? The way they defined them is how they treated them. In Swahili at the cost they were called mutumwa. Which is very different from the word slave and what it means. Lets focus on the language. What were they called?

Pick any language from the west of Africa and give me four examples of how they classified the people that you classify as slaves.

Am waiting.

 

[kefta]

And yeah, I am from a white concept called Uganda. Born in Kampala, Uganda, grew up in Nairobi, Kenya and speak up to five languages. Fluently.

 

[ORIGINAL NATION]

Thanks for passing that on. Will add it to my collection. We started out as the most modern and the most natural. They do not know about life before certain things about us was destroyed or hid. That is why they are not into the raw fruits and vegetables and the miracle foods out of the bee hive.

 

[exiledking]

And yeah, I am from a white concept called Uganda. Born in Kampala, Uganda, grew up in Nairobi, Kenya and speak up to five languages. Fluently.

That's awesome ..even more awesome is how for some reason you can tell.me where your from without all that Mumbo jumbo, yet when I ask you other questions your reply is word salad.

 

[kefta]

That's awesome ..even more awesome is how for some reason you can tell.me where your from without all that Mumbo jumbo, yet when I ask you other questions your reply is word salad.

I answered all the questions.

You have yet to answer mine buddy!

 

[gene cisco]

I repeat, if we were as powerful as we thought we were, we would not be in the situation that we find ourselves in today, 2016, as black people.

* SOME Afrikans were forced to engage in the slave trade. That is the correct narrative.

oNe!

*fixed

Besides Africa, I've given you a number of examples where powerful groups have fallen to less-powerful groups. All it takes is a leader to turn left when they should have turned right and the powerful group loses. But you have dug into your position and refuse to accept facts. Anyone who seriously studied history would never say that the most powerful group always wins. You're in the U.S. and not in a British territory because the more powerful British empire lost the Revolutionary War.

SOME Africans were forced to engage in the slave trade, OTHERS were not. Damn. Why do both sides always have to speak in absolutes? SOME cacs running around acting like all Africans were willingly involved in the slave trade, while SOME black folks insist on spreading the false belief that NO Africans willingly engaged in it.

During the trans-Saharan trade, it was the same thing. SOME empires were forced to pay tribute, while others protected by the huge fucking desert just sold other Africans because they were getting shit back.

Why do you need feel-good narratives of history?

Examples of empires and groups of people have been given to you numerous times. I even went out of my way to show you the gunpowder and gun exports(with links) that cacs tracked that they traded during the slave trade. Cacs kept records of a lot of this shit. In their own records, they admit to encountering powerful empires and basically lucking out because of the stupid choices other leaders made.